NationStates Jolt Archive

NO FLAMING AS ALWAYS


If you're not in the US (and are not a US) citizen, please do not take offense at this. I seriously am not trying to offend anyone. This question is asked not out of resentment, but out of curiosity. Why do foreigners care so much about who we elect or who we don't elect to be President? Don't your countries have their own problems to deal with? I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush. We don't tell you who to vote for, so why can't you let us decide for ourselves?

Because it affects all of us. The US is the most powerful nation in the world. And Tony will just do what they do.

Because it affects all of us. The US is the most powerful nation in the world. And Tony will just do what they do.

But still, I don't tell them how to vote. I expect the same from them.

The US carries too much weight in the world to ignore who the next president is going to be. The election will affect the foreign policies of the US: trade, aid, military, political pressure, etc.

So, many foreign states, corporations and citizens have a vested interest on who the next president of the US will be and some will try to persuade US citizens to vote one way or another; many times, just like people in the US, for the lesser evil.

I can understand their concern over who wins, I just don't like it when they try to tell us who we should vote for. Would they like it if we told them who they should vote for in their countries?

But still, I don't tell them how to vote. I expect the same from them.

I don't tell anybody how to vote. I give my opinion. Are you American or not - I can't tell? (Not having a go at you, you understand)

This question is asked not out of resentment, but out of curiosity.


I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush.
??

But still, I don't tell them how to vote. I expect the same from them.
Maybe not you personally, but some US citizens, corporations and the government certainly have interests in some parts of the world and try to persuade the people in those places to vote for the candidate who will best serve those interests. In some cases they have gone as far as rigging votes, kill candidates or stage a coup when things don't go their way.

I think it's ok to express one's opinion on the state of a country or another, as long as you keep away from directly intervening in that country's affairs. Unless it's your own, of course.

I can understand their concern over who wins, I just don't like it when they try to tell us who we should vote for. Would they like it if we told them who they should vote for in their countries?
Well I'm french, and Americans tell me all the day how the socialists suck in my country.
Remember when the socialists were elected in Spain...
Giving into the terrorists ????? Mind your own business.

Because what affects america affects the whole god damn world. Washington is the capital of the world cant you see that. You dont care about what happens outside your capital anymore than I care about what happens outside of my capital city.

It seems to me an American that others are paranoid that we will suddenly start launching nukes or something. John French Kerry is held in such esteem by so many leftist wackos in all countries. While Bush is considered an atrocity because he defended this country.
Why other people are trying to influence our elections.... humm perhaps they cant influence theirs enough and cant change their coutry enough to become powerful so they want us to elect someone who will make us weaker.
Personally they can try to influence our elections.. I dont care I will try to fight them but hey they are free to do it as long as they do it legally. What really bothers me is a member of our supreme court in the us said something around the lines of... why shouldn't what other countries think be a factor. this shold be a scarier thought to you then who is tyring to influence the election. a non elected official whose responsabiltiy is to see if a law is CONSTITUTIONAL is not going to base his descision on the us constitution but on public opinion polls of France..... that is disturbing


I am not a conservative or a republican incase you try to say I'm a right wing nut. I'm a Libertarian I'm your worst nightmare. now its off to college so I can get a higher paying job.

I would like to make two comments on that. Kerry's middle name is not french, and he isnt held in high esteem, just as in The U.S but in all countries it's just that bush isn't held in high esteem. Atleast in some peoples eyes. Unfortunately politics in most countries is usually reduced to supporting the lesser of two evils.

And Bush didn't defend his country, he attacked others. Theres A difference.

In France, Kerry is considered an extreme right wing wacko. His vietnam record is scarying (we don't like veterans in France).
Bush is considered worse though. (although very close)

Even Foreign Legionaires?

I can understand their concern over who wins, I just don't like it when they try to tell us who we should vote for. Would they like it if we told them who they should vote for in their countries?
If you were interested in the election and thought that you could give another angle of the question, yes (and that is what I want from other citizens in my country if they are going to debate with me).

Well I'm french, and Americans tell me all the day how the socialists suck in my country.
Remember when the socialists were elected in Spain...
Giving into the terrorists ????? Mind your own business.

If you want to elect socialists, I don't mind. Likewise for Spain. Your internal affairs are just that, your internal affairs, not the U.S.'s or anyone else's.

The US president has so much power outside the US that we could as well call him the president of the world. Why then are only US citisens allow to participate in the elections? I also want to vote. And not just between these two guys who are both around the center of the US political ideas (that's why the both get about 50% of the votes): I want to vote on someone who represents my OWN ideas about international politics, not the AMERICAN ideas.

OK, it's still the president of the US. IMO US citisens are the only ones who should decide about the internal US politics. Maybe internal and external US politics should be split from each other, and maybe we should give the external part a name like "united nations". Maybe the US army should be split up to a small part to defend US territory and a large UN "police" force. As long as the US doesn't do this, they will have a lot of enemies in the rest of the world...

In France, Kerry is considered an extreme right wing wacko.

Kerry a right wing wacko?

Kerry a right wing wacko?

They're all right wing. There are very few left-wingers in politics, and certainly none at the top of the American tree.

Example: The "Labour" Party in Britain.

Not A wacko, but he sure aint left wing if you measure on a global curve.

And The U.S would never let the whole world vote. It'd be A disaster for republicans. Why do you think The U.K handed Hong Kong back to China?

One thing I don't think American's realise is how far to the right of the political spectrum their main political parties are. Its not an insult or anything, just simply the way it is. (By right-wing I mean tradition, low tax, etc, nothing to do with Nazis etc)

Its natural for any country to assume thats its political structure is 'centrist' and that other nations are either left-wing or right-wing based on its own record. Many Americans consider the Republicans right of centre and democrats left of centre, whereas in most other democracies both would be considered right wing political parties. In turn, the left of centre and right of centre parties in France would be considered left wing in America.

In the cumulative average of the world, the entire Anglo-Saxon community generally tends to be right of centre, Europe centrist and the 'Communist' countries are at the far left.

Please take this into account.

But its Right and Righter in A lot of english speaking countries. Left wing politics is simply being marginalised.

In European standards, both the candidates are rightist politicians, both economically liberal and relatively conservative. Though Bush is in European terms a Rightwing-extremist, especially in his "Christian" views.

But as is said before, this election affects the entire world and especially Bush calls for a lot of emotions, here in Holland, because it makes us choose between the US or Europe in which we normally tend to choose the US, though we disagree with Bush (he is even more extreme than our governing Christian party). So we hope Kerry wins and he'll be able to coöperate.

As for why many non-Americans care about the election? Well, the simple reason is that whoever is chosen will affect most of the planet. The choices on the international stage will be different for the two candidates, and so most people do have a vested interest in the election. The right to an opinion is something everyone is entitled to.

However, the internal politcs are the business of one country only, and yes, the US President should be elected by the US People, but in turn the President must respect his responsibilities that come with being in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth. Abusing this power, which has been done in the past (Im not talking about Iraq though) will get you enemies.

Kerry a right wing wacko?

Trust me, you dont know left-wing until you've studied Continental Europe politics. The democrats are similar to right-center parties in Europe, and the Republicans are the equivalent of right-wing in Europe. That's why I consider laughable when republicans start mocking the "lefties" when they dont even know what a "lefty" is.

So lets see... why do the rest of the world care? lets start: name me a US president in the last 50 years that hasn't been involved in a military conflict of some sort? so military-wise it's vital, every time the US gets into a conflict there's many things that have to be watched for, they are not waging a war near their territory, they are playing the war game in other continents, so the nations in each of those continents are directly affected (socially, economically and politcally) on how those military conflicts resolve themselves. So in the end, the war is far more important for those nations than to the US.

Economically speaking, the US is building a free trade area with the Americas, so the outcome of the negotiation is directly affected by who runs the office, the US can force their unloyal competition over the other nations or be fair and let the market determin who's competitive enough to survive. In Europe, not only is the US one of the biggest economical partners, but investment in Europe is directly affected by how the dollar matches up against the Euro, right now, a weak dollar affects investment in Europe because the Euro becomes too expensive for trade.

And like that, there's dozens of reasons why this election is as important for the US as it is to the world. At least be happy that we dont force you to elect or run coups against your goverment, like the US has in the past ;)

Not A wacko, but he sure aint left wing if you measure on a global curve.

And The U.S would never let the whole world vote. It'd be A disaster for republicans. Why do you think The U.K handed Hong Kong back to China?

How d'you mean?

Hong Kong never had an influence on British politics.

Even Foreign Legionaires?Yes. We have many jokes about legionaires in France.

If you want to elect socialists, I don't mind. Likewise for Spain. Your internal affairs are just that, your internal affairs, not the U.S.'s or anyone else's.
And iraqis internal affairs are iraqi internal affairs, right?

It seems to me an American that others are paranoid that we will suddenly start launching nukes or something. John French Kerry is held in such esteem by so many leftist wackos in all countries. While Bush is considered an atrocity because he defended this country.
Why other people are trying to influence our elections.... humm perhaps they cant influence theirs enough and cant change their coutry enough to become powerful so they want us to elect someone who will make us weaker.
Personally they can try to influence our elections.. I dont care I will try to fight them but hey they are free to do it as long as they do it legally. What really bothers me is a member of our supreme court in the us said something around the lines of... why shouldn't what other countries think be a factor. this shold be a scarier thought to you then who is tyring to influence the election. a non elected official whose responsabiltiy is to see if a law is CONSTITUTIONAL is not going to base his descision on the us constitution but on public opinion polls of France..... that is disturbing


I am not a conservative or a republican incase you try to say I'm a right wing nut. I'm a Libertarian I'm your worst nightmare. now its off to college so I can get a higher paying job.



Ummm, libertarians are right wing. And Kerry is only held in such esteem by we liberals because he's not Bush.

Yes. We have many jokes about legionaires in France.

Ouch. That certainly enforces my view that theres ultimately no difference between the French and The Americans.

Ouch. That certainly enforces my view that theres ultimately no difference between the French and The Americans.
We are culturally very close. Big bullies, very arrogant, sticking our nose everywhere. I think that is why we clash.

I think it all came out of their similar history. The U.S form of government was based on the french form, was it not?

I think the French-US conflict is because the US are used to everyone else suckling on their teat and agreeing to everything, saying yes and amen. That now, the "old European" countries like France and Germany would reject a US demand (joining the coalition of the willing/coerced) is unthinkable for the US. How dare we not succumb to the almightyness of the US of A. Damn the French for standing up to their beliefs and not joining into an illegal war of aggression that was based on lies and deception. As Goering once said, deceive the people, denounce the peace-lovers and pretend the nation is being threatened and the sheep will follow into any war.

Until we stop following the US, and are no longer a US ally, the results are important.

I think it all came out of their similar history. The U.S form of government was based on the french form, was it not?
It must play a big part. That and the fact that the french population in the US is huge.

Even bigger than those I-talians?

I think it all came out of their similar history. The U.S form of government was based on the french form, was it not?
It was based on some French ideas, but there was a lot of stuff that came from the natives and also original thought by Jefferson, Franklin and others. There was also a lot of compromise afterwards to keep the new states in a single union.

Ah, i'll just post my own view here without bothering quoting anyone elses.

The way I see it, the US election impacts the world more than any other, and to be quite honest, I don't think Bush is exactly doing a great job with America's credibility. While ordinarily my politics wouldn't look on that as a bad thing, it could be downright dangerous for the world if Bush gets reelected...The neo-realist policies that administration employs are narrowminded and causing too much alienation, amongst Islamic nations and the undeveloped world in general...and the USA is dragging Australia with it, not a good move when the worlds most populous Islamic nation is on our northern border. I'm not saying Islam is evil at all or whatever, but basic humanity will dictate striking back if struck yourself, and we're the closest target...We're lucky Indonesia is currently a secular state, but that could change.

That's one reason. The other is that Mr.Bush had no qualms in stating that he would prefer to see our conservative "Liberal Party" get re-elected, so why can I not state that I would prefer to see him get the boot?

In all seriousness though, I don't really care who you vote for. The end result will likely be the same with minor shifts in domestic policy, perhaps, that don't really concern me. Unless you vote for a third party. That would get my thumbs up.

Too bad not enough people take their politics seriously enough to do so.

Yeah, they get into the rut of the two-party dictatorship....or they simply dont vote. Lucky we don't have the latter problem here, it being compulsory and all.

Maybe we democratic non-americans meddles in american politics because thats the way we do democracy over here. Private persons without an economical envolement in the election gives their opinions to other private persons. I personally prefer this to company sponsored vote buying.

Meddling in the presidential election is also a way of showing many americans that a political system can have a broad spread of solutions (ie parties). Some people likes to call this democracy aid!

OK this is a little provocative but would US citizens realy prefer that we didn't care? I wouldn't mind if US citizen engaged during swedish elections (2006 your all welcome) with an outside view and clever suggestions. Please note that it is not a majority of european people, mostly politically interested people has an opinion and that is just as in the US, about 50%.

Also, as mentioned by many, the way US developes is of big importance for the rest of the world.

UN debt?
A huge deficit in the state budget will eventually hurt everyone.
To much money being spent on military instead of cure for cancer, sustainable energy solutions etc...
Kyoto protocol?

After all we all live on teh same planet

If Americans don't understand why foreigners are interested in the political machinations of the US, how can we honestly expect to believe an American when they claim that part of their support for the Iraq war was their deep interest in the wellbeing of Iraqis?



At least in our case we are interested in something far more likely to impact us personally than Saddam was to the average American.....

-Z-

This should be pretty obvious. As a world superpower, especially one with so much debatable foreign policy, we have a large impact on other countries. It's in their interest to care about our election since it directly affects some.

If you're not in the US (and are not a US) citizen, please do not take offense at this. I seriously am not trying to offend anyone. This question is asked not out of resentment, but out of curiosity. Why do foreigners care so much about who we elect or who we don't elect to be President? Don't your countries have their own problems to deal with? I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush. We don't tell you who to vote for, so why can't you let us decide for ourselves?Because the security situation in the world greatly depends on who sits in the White House. It is easily predictable that war will not cease to emerge as long as the current president is in office.

There are many reasons why I try to influence the US election. Most mirror what was stated earlier in the thread. But I have a specific example to show you how Canada (and Canadians) has vested interests in the US election:

The ballistic missile shield. Bush want to construct a contraption that doesn't work as quickly as possible and want Canada to pay for part of it and install it on our soil. As much as I am concerned about the threat of missile, I fail to see why I should pay tax money for something that doesn't work.

Furthermore, the Bush administration want to retain any and all decision concerning this missile shield. Now call me dumb, but if I pay for something, I want to have a word on how it will be used.

Kerry, according to his website, wants to make sure the technology is working before implanting it. That makes sense in my opinion.

So to answer your question: We are trying to influence the US election to protect our own national interests. You do the same when your ambassadors releases statements during elections elsewhere (Canada and Australia comes to mind). Quit bitching when you get a taste of your own medecine.

Also, as a side note, I'm not that keen in supporting a president that states doubt the safety of our imported drugs seeing as they are the same drugs that the US uses, sold by the same US companies. Is he trying to tell us that there's something unsafe in the drugs they sell us? I especially liked his comment that "at least, Canada is not a third-world country". :rolleyes:

peope care about us elections.. the election of one country no matter how big or small as long as their is trade between the two one will efect the other. Nothing wrong with showing intrest. You sure as HELL HAVE NOT VOTING RIGHT IN MY COUNTRY.
I basicly said I was not a conservative or a republican or a right wing wacko. I'm a libertarian your worst nightmare. SARCASM A JOKE YOU MORON.
The US is the most powerful nation in the world. your right we do effect other countries. Why are we the most powerful..... because we vote for America not other countries.
as for the person who said Bush was not defending our country. I have a few words.... 9/11 the USS Cole.... I suppose these were peaceful demonstrations about our foreign policy. I refuse to let someone else try to change our president when it is not their country being attacked.

Elections in Spain.. I could careless you turn into a communist country a dictatorship... long as you dont try to mess with my country. Elections come and go people you will get another cnance in 4 years for a new us president no matter who wins.

are so many people who want to not only put their say in which I have no problem if you do it legally ... but for a foreign national to say he wants to vote for our president.... how woudl you like it if our population went to yoru country and all millions of our people went and elected someone to rule over you for a while?

and really Kerry's middle name is not French... oh my god....... everything I knew is gone..... NO KIDDING it is a joke... incase you did not know I'm a nice southern gentlemen born and raised in the south. we have a tendacy to create nicknames.

"Yeah, they get into the rut of the two-party dictatorship....or they simply dont vote. Lucky we don't have the latter problem here, it being compulsory and all." ok lets see being forced to vote.. gee that sounds very democratic and free. and as for 2 parties... hummm........ I dont know but seems we have a lot of minor parites too that win lots of state and local elections for govenor and mayors... we may only have 2 main parties that win elections.. though throught american history on severl occasions third party candidates have won elections.






EVERYONE SHOULD CARE ABOUT ELECTIONS EVERYWHERE WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BUT YOU MUST REALISE THAT UNLESS YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY YOU SHOLD NOT HAVE A SAY IN IT.

It seems to me an American that others are paranoid that we will suddenly start launching nukes or something. John French Kerry is held in such esteem by so many leftist wackos in all countries. While Bush is considered an atrocity because he defended this country.
Why other people are trying to influence our elections.... humm perhaps they cant influence theirs enough and cant change their coutry enough to become powerful so they want us to elect someone who will make us weaker.
Personally they can try to influence our elections.. I dont care I will try to fight them but hey they are free to do it as long as they do it legally. What really bothers me is a member of our supreme court in the us said something around the lines of... why shouldn't what other countries think be a factor. this shold be a scarier thought to you then who is tyring to influence the election. a non elected official whose responsabiltiy is to see if a law is CONSTITUTIONAL is not going to base his descision on the us constitution but on public opinion polls of France..... that is disturbing


I am not a conservative or a republican incase you try to say I'm a right wing nut. I'm a Libertarian I'm your worst nightmare. now its off to college so I can get a higher paying job.

Once you decided to show your true colors and prove that you are a Republican, I knew it. If you are a so called Libertarian then explain why you agree with republicans so consistantly...maybe becsuse you are a republican in Libertarian 's clothing? Gasp, I'm right aren't I!

By the way, your French comment and others are what lead to your unveiling.

As an American I take your comments as a insult to our supreme court and our possible "future" President.

EVERYONE SHOULD CARE ABOUT ELECTIONS EVERYWHERE WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BUT YOU MUST REALISE THAT UNLESS YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY YOU SHOLD NOT HAVE A SAY IN IT.

No need to yell.

Personally, I wouldn't want a say in US politics. I'd first like to have a say in my own country's politics. America can have whatever leader it likes, as far as I'm concerned. With any luck the UK won't have a Prime Minister that will blindly follow whatever your President says, come next election.

From my point of view, all Americans are insane, so what difference does one leader make over another?

I am a libertarian I believe in leagalzing most drugs that are now illegal drinking age shold be 18. I am against defining marriage ... the only thing I do truly follow on consrvative ticket is national defense.
as for the supreme court.. I AM NOT THE ONE WHO SAID they believe that foreign countries opinion and not the us constitution shold be the deciding factor in their opinion. how is that insulting.. I'm not the one going against my job description. read apaper become better informed before you have a statement liek I'm insulting cause I believ as it says in our us constitution that the supreme court shold decide constitutionality and not "global test"
as for being a republican.. they are hypocrits... just not quite asmuch as democats.
and as for ktrenal I'm not insane... well not totally. I'm just a simple strict constitutionalist

NO FLAMING AS ALWAYS


If you're not in the US (and are not a US) citizen, please do not take offense at this. I seriously am not trying to offend anyone. This question is asked not out of resentment, but out of curiosity. Why do foreigners care so much about who we elect or who we don't elect to be President? Don't your countries have their own problems to deal with? I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush. We don't tell you who to vote for, so why can't you let us decide for ourselves?
Quite simple really. The US is so disproportionately influential in the diplomatic and economic sphere, the world has an interest in who wins.

I suppose it's kind of like the Enron scandal being so important to the business community. No-one told non-shareholders to STFU, it's none of their business, and rightly so, because there were wider implication for the entire international business community. One has to conceed, national politics is globalised now too.

Not A wacko, but he sure aint left wing if you measure on a global curve.

And The U.S would never let the whole world vote. It'd be A disaster for republicans. Why do you think The U.K handed Hong Kong back to China?

Because that was part of the agreement they made when they first took the place

I would just like to clarify the definitions of "Left" and "Right" in the US. Or at the very least, why they have the titles.
Left-wingers are just that: they sit on the left side of the main aisle in the House and Senate. Right-wingers sit on the right. That's all. The titles have no historical root, other than where these two parties like to sit.

And iraqis internal affairs are iraqi internal affairs, right?

as soon as its stable.

NO FLAMING AS ALWAYS


If you're not in the US (and are not a US) citizen, please do not take offense at this. I seriously am not trying to offend anyone. This question is asked not out of resentment, but out of curiosity. Why do foreigners care so much about who we elect or who we don't elect to be President? Don't your countries have their own problems to deal with? I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush. We don't tell you who to vote for, so why can't you let us decide for ourselves?
The USA in as you probly know is the only standing Super Power in the world(and most likey for the next 20-40 that will be true but I'm keeping a eye on China as they are growing in power FAST). thus it is very easy for thing than hapen in the US can effect thing over seas (i.e. 9/11 damaged the ecom. of almost every nation that trades with the US).

and form the Canadian stand point Bush hasn't been the most Canada Freindly prez. and we believe Kerry will be nicer to us.

Not only the fact that it affects us, but it probably affects Europeans (especially Britain) MORE than it affects Americans, because the main difference between Bush and Kerry is foreign policy, and foreign policy affects foreigners more than it affects Americans. As a Briton, American choices will affect our foreign policy, as we are, in affect, Americas second army.

NO FLAMING AS ALWAYS

If you're not in the US (and are not a US) citizen, please do not take offense at this. I seriously am not trying to offend anyone. This question is asked not out of resentment, but out of curiosity. Why do foreigners care so much about who we elect or who we don't elect to be President? Don't your countries have their own problems to deal with? I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush. We don't tell you who to vote for, so why can't you let us decide for ourselves?
Us non-Americans don't really have a problem with what the US does within its own borders, because it doesn't affect us. When the US government steps outside its borders with dominating foreign policies, it enters our lives. For most of us who want to see Bush defeated, it is not because of gay marrigage or his tax cuts, but because of his irresponsible and overly-aggressive foreign policy.

I don't think we "tell you how to vote"? What do you mean? Do you regard all political campaigning and propaganda as telling you how to vote?

It seems to me, an American, that others are paranoid that we will suddenly start launching nukes or something. John French Kerry is held in such esteem by so many leftist wackos in all countries. While Bush is considered an atrocity because he defended this country.
.......
I am not a conservative or a republican incase you try to say I'm a right wing nut. I'm a Libertarian I'm your worst nightmare. now its off to college so I can get a higher paying job.
You're quite obviously very biased in favour of Bush. We don't hold Kerry in high esteem. The primary reason we hope he will win is because he promises a return to more traditional US foreign policy.

I care because I'm a Canadian, and our government decided we'd do well using America as a crutch. In general, what happens to America economically and politically effects Canada. I think I have a right to care for that reason alone.

traditional foreign policy... or traditional liberal democrat policy?

Kerry a right wing wacko?
No, not really. Maybe Pyslos is getting his idea from a meeting of the French Communist Party which he attended last week. In Europe Kerry is considered moderate or centre-right. Bush is regarded as being far right.

On a side note I think it's funny that the US election is degenrating into attacks on ideology. Bush tries to portray Kerry as some sort of radical socialist and Kerry claims that Bush adheres to "an extreme right-wing ideology". Both are ridiculous. Neither candidate is extremist.

I think it all came out of their similar history. The U.S form of government was based on the french form, was it not?
No, the American Revolution was before the French Revolution. More like the other way round. In addition, the US has kept the same form of government since its independence. France, however, has gone through various forms of government since 1789.

And iraqis internal affairs are iraqi internal affairs, right?
You should know that Roach-Busters is anti-war.

I'm not saying Islam is evil at all or whatever, but basic humanity will dictate striking back if struck yourself, and we're the closest target...We're lucky Indonesia is currently a secular state, but that could change.
Are Australians really afraid of an Indonesian invasion?

Why care? Well, the winner will be The Leader Of The Free World. Only you yanks get to vote for our leader, so we're jealous.

a) an interest in the election doesn't mean expressing your view on who should be elected

b) saying who i'd elect doesn't means telling you what you should do

c) the USA is a country as important that its choices have effects all over the world - and you won't deny anybody to have his say over decision that affect him

d)just imagine that even non-US-citizens might have a genuine concern for the US-people and therefore care about their president and what is going to happen to the US people...

e) it's not like anybody needs to listen to anybody else as far as comments about whom he should vote for go...

(says a german)

EVERYONE SHOULD CARE ABOUT ELECTIONS EVERYWHERE WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BUT YOU MUST REALISE THAT UNLESS YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY YOU SHOLD NOT HAVE A SAY IN IT.
NOBODY IS SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING THAT NON-AMERICANS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO VOTE IN THE US ELECTIONS.

traditional foreign policy... or traditional liberal democrat policy?
I'm talking about the foreign policy started by FDR/Truman and followed by every US President (Democrat AND Republican) since then, up until Bush. Bush has a policy that is radical and frankly the world wants the old America back.

When the US was just established, it was not the most powerful country in the world. Did we get any say in who was appointed in other governments then?

I hear foreign policy... .but what policies... NAFTA.... Reagan and his plicy for the Iron curtian... stoping the domino effect.....humm let us keep same policies and ignore terrorism... ??
humm maybe we shold stop the huge aids package Bush made for Africa... and go back to sending just about nothing.

There are few nations out there which have as great an affect on the nations of the world, especially under George Bush Jr. If the USA feels it has the right to invade nations because it doesnt like the type of government they have, then all nations have the right to be involved in the US elections. After all, we are all potentially affected by the decision.

Emmanuel "Ronin" Goldstein
Speaker for the region of Sludgia

I hear foreign policy... .but what policies... NAFTA.... Reagan and his plicy for the Iron curtian... stoping the domino effect.....humm let us keep same policies and ignore terrorism... ??
humm maybe we shold stop the huge aids package Bush made for Africa... and go back to sending just about nothing.
Yeah, and while you're at it also refrain from taking anything or intervening in any other way in African affairs. And that goes for the Europeans too, get your dirty, stinking, bloody hands out of Africa.

so yall dont want any funding for helping with aids... if we find better medicines or a cure... you dont want that either?

Yeah, and while you're at it also refrain from taking anything or intervening in any other way in African affairs. And that goes for the Europeans too, get your dirty, stinking, bloody hands out of Africa.
Huh? Explain?

If you lived in Phrygia or Thrace 2000 years ago you would have no say in Roman olitics but you would be forced to care very much, very deeply, about who was going to be the next emperor.

Same deal.

Originally Posted by Iztatepopotla
Yeah, and while you're at it also refrain from taking anything or intervening in any other way in African affairs. And that goes for the Europeans too, get your dirty, stinking, bloody hands out of Africa.

Hey, no problem...the only stability that Africa's seen has been under the influence of Western Europeans, but if you want to keep your own dirty, stinking, bloody African hands in things then go right ahead my friend. Good luck finding a stable government in Africa run by Africans, save those of northern Africa. Incidentally, I haven't heard much on how the tourism and emigration is going in places like Uganda, Rwanda, Zimbabwe...how's the lack of foreign investment...oops, intervention been treating you? MORON.

Huh? Explain?
Oh, well. You are Irish, so I guess it doesn't apply so much to you; but I'm pretty sure you know how European powers colonized Africa well into the 20th Century, the exploitation of natural and human resources and, to this day, wars and divisions created and financed by Europe to keep access to those cheap resources.

Sure, some problems have been there for many years, and not everything can be blamed on European intervention, but Europe has contributed a lot to African poverty and general misery.

And to The Atoli, if the US developed a vaccine or cure for AIDS, would it ask a fair price for it? one that would make it affordable to the poor people in the world? or would it hold the world ransom to it? keep other countries from developing or distributing cheaper versions?

Oh, well. You are Irish, so I guess it doesn't apply so much to you; but I'm pretty sure you know how European powers colonized Africa well into the 20th Century, the exploitation of natural and human resources and, to this day, wars and divisions created and financed by Europe to keep access to those cheap resources.

Sure, some problems have been there for many years, and not everything can be blamed on European intervention, but Europe has contributed a lot to African poverty and general misery.


Oh right militarily fair enough

Hey, no problem...the only stability that Africa's seen has been under the influence of Western Europeans, but if you want to keep your own dirty, stinking, bloody African hands in things then go right ahead my friend. Good luck finding a stable government in Africa run by Africans, save those of northern Africa. Incidentally, I haven't heard much on how the tourism and emigration is going in places like Uganda, Rwanda, Zimbabwe...how's the lack of foreign investment...oops, intervention been treating you? MORON.

Oh, yeah, just like the only stability that Eastern Europe knew during the 20th century was under soviet rule.

Africa was no more unstable before colonization than Europe was. Sure there were wars, invasions and human movements, but things weren't worse than in the rest of the world and some kingdoms actually reached a very high level of culture and government.

And the current instability of African governments owns quite a lot to European economic and political intervention. Get out of your shell, and perhaps you will be able to conceive that I'm not African.

I agree with you that the current situation in many countries in Africa has a lot to do with the legacy of colonialism. But for Africans to say that they don't want western/foreign/American aid, then great. Fine by me, I'd rather my tax dollars go somewhere else than in the pockets of an African despot, it'll save alot of American military time and money in not being there.
And incidentally, not that it matters much, but the most stable that eastern europe was in the 20th century was under the rule of our friends in downtown Vienna, nice group of folks but on the losing side in 1918.
Now that I'm out of my shell I can say that I give 0.0 damns where you're from, and my feeling still stands that whoever needs aid and refuses it whether they be in Africa, the Americas, Asia, wherever, is just being ridiculous.

Why do foreigners care so much about who we elect or who we don't elect to be President? Don't your countries have their own problems to deal with?Yup. Here in Canada our ruling party is corrupt. But, there is so much trade between Canada and the United States, that if the United States economy tanks, Canada is going to hurt pretty bad. And "foreigners" tend to take more of an interest in foreign affairs than Americans.

I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush. We don't tell you who to vote for, so why can't you let us decide for ourselves?As it happens, the United States has a long history in interfering with the selection of foreign governments. Ask your local chomskyite. The United States has not been isolationist for a long time. So it's natural for people outside the United States to care who the United States President is.

As it happens, the United States has a long history in interfering with the selection of foreign governments. Ask your local chomskyite. The United States has not been isolationist for a long time. So it's natural for people outside the United States to care who the United States President is.

Then maybe we it's about time that we become isolationists agian

I agree with you that the current situation in many countries in Africa has a lot to do with the legacy of colonialism. But for Africans to say that they don't want western/foreign/American aid, then great. Fine by me, I'd rather my tax dollars go somewhere else than in the pockets of an African despot, it'll save alot of American military time and money in not being there.

Fair enough, however I never said that Africa or other region didn't need or want foreign aid. It started with Atoli saying that since the aid the US sends is part of their foreign policy and the rest of the world seems to have a problem with it (as if all they did was sending aid or put other nation's interests first) then perhaps they should stop it all together.

By pointing out that if they're going to stop sending aid they might as well be fair and stop taking things from Africa also and stop intervening in their affairs I'm trying to say that, were it not for foreign meddling, Africa might be on the way to find solutions of its own, and if not, at least there would be any one else to blame for the situation.

Now, I want to be fair too and recognise that the US is not the only interventionist power in Africa and that European powers contribute quite a bit to its situation today. So, I don't want Europeans to believe they're off the hook.

Europeans should ask themselves what their own country's foreign policies are, especially towards Africa. Where does Nokia get the tungsten for their phones? How do they get the raw material for their steel? Is their aid tied to particular programs to increase their political power in the region? What role have they played in recent conflicts and civil wars beyond what's reported in the news?

Sure, they will find out that the situation is more complex than just this, but at least they can contribute in a much more positive way than they do now.


Now that I'm out of my shell I can say that I give 0.0 damns where you're from, and my feeling still stands that whoever needs aid and refuses it whether they be in Africa, the Americas, Asia, wherever, is just being ridiculous.
Depends on how you define help and what strings are attached. I mean, it's not like the helper wants nothing in return. It may not be that ridiculous.

Bah.

Nobody ever quotes me.

Bah.

Nobody ever quotes me.
Yes they do.

humm maybe we shold stop the huge aids package Bush made for Africa... and go back to sending just about nothing.

Point of interest about that huge aids package: The countries recieve it only if they agree to certain policies. Chief among these policies is to teach abstinance only as a means to stop aids from spreading. Now, call me crazy, but isn't teaching to use a condom a better way to go about it? Right, religion does not like condoms.

NO FLAMING AS ALWAYS


If you're not in the US (and are not a US) citizen, please do not take offense at this. I seriously am not trying to offend anyone. This question is asked not out of resentment, but out of curiosity. Why do foreigners care so much about who we elect or who we don't elect to be President? Don't your countries have their own problems to deal with? I am getting sick to death of people trying to persuade us to vote for war criminal Kerry, or not to vote for megalomaniac Bush. We don't tell you who to vote for, so why can't you let us decide for ourselves?

Well, I'm not a foreigner, but I do think that it is probably because the U.S. is a large, fairly powerful nation and it effects a lot of other countries.

Are Australians really afraid of an Indonesian invasion?

Not an imminent one, but you have to consider the history of the country and its behavior on internal affairs. It had decades under a virtually fascist government, and has only just become a "democracy". It's army to this day encourages west-Timorese militia groups that conduct raids on Australian soldiers stationed in the east and ruthlessly oppresses the seccessionist province of Aceh.

If a serious pan-Islamic group (Not talking about groups like Al-Qaeda, which I see as an inflated threat...despite 11/9/2001 the world goes on...) manages to draw significant popular support, then we could very well be a direct target as the result of our support for the US. Fortunately, at the moment, that is considered fringe-politics even over there.

Perhaps more realistically, if a nationalist or military coup takes place, they could very well seek to take revenge for our Intervention in Timor.

absenence... hummmm what a novel idea... now how could that ever stop aids from spreading... scratches my chin
point b.... if your too stupid to figure out a condom... my lord you need more help then the us economy can give you
and I started the thing about foreign aid as a reference to Bush and his foreign agenda and its diffrence to past presidents....
and ps condoms dont always work just to let you know just ask my ex about 4 turns ago... who by the way I didnt sleep with though she doesnt have hiv or aids she has gotten a disease through a condom thatI guess just did not work.

absenence... hummmm what a novel idea... now how could that ever stop aids from spreading... scratches my chin
point b.... if your too stupid to figure out a condom... my lord you need more help then the us economy can give you
and I started the thing about foreign aid as a reference to Bush and his foreign agenda and its diffrence to past presidents....
and ps condoms dont always work just to let you know just ask my ex about 4 turns ago... who by the way I didnt sleep with though she doesnt have hiv or aids she has gotten a disease through a condom thatI guess just did not work.
Listen, no method is 100% effective. However, condom is one of the best out there to prevent STD. And no wonder some people don'T know how to use a condom properly, they were never taught or were taught it doesn't help. If you want to be all high and mighty about giving money to help stop a disease, stop putting strings on that money. Charity is not supposed to be about preaching.

So when you say that Bush is good because he sent money to Africa to fight aids, I say that he could have done far more and far better in his help.

as soon as its stable.

Iraq was stable under Saddam, as much as I hate to admit it. At least, if you said the right things in public, you could live day-to-day without really fearing for your life. Now, nobody is safe, and very, very few people leave their homes.

Instead of making excuses, I wish Bush would just admit that he fucked up, and apologized. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he did.


Back on topic:

The biggest reason I'm concerned about who wins the US election is that I want the cattle farmers in my province, (Alberta), to finally be able to sell their beef in the US again. Kerry does not see Alberta beef as a threat.

Hah hah... we see the Bush VS Kerry debates in here too, so we're interested about who will be the president. I know that most Finns root for Kerry and I am not an exception.

Why do we care about US presidential elections? (Skip this if you want, it's just another history lesson)


BECAUSE, we were under Swedish rule when it was more powerful. However they lost the area of Finland to Russia in 1808 (I think). We suffered two periods of Russification before independence in 1917. One of the main reasons why we became independent was that Russia was weak after it's loss in WW1.

Soviet-Finnish relationships were frosty before 1939 and a lot of Finnish socialists who had moved to our eastern neighbor were executed by Stalin. Then USSR and Nazi Germany signed the famous Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, that claimed that Finland and the Baltic States belong to the USSR.

So there were three wars because of this, the Winter War when the USSR attacked us, the Continuation War, where we attacked them to get back the areas we lost with Nazi Germany and finally the Lapland War, where we had to fight the Germans off, pressured by Soviets. They burned down almost whole Lapland when retreating.

After these wars, our relationships became better, even though they punished us with massive war repayments and took 10% of our territory. Luckily, this country didn't become a communist country, but still they had a lot of influence in our domestic affairs (like who can be the president and who can't). Our position in the Cold War was still neutral.


(Ok, if you skipped that, you can start reading again)

Why am I posting this, is because I'm trying to say that large, powerful nations have tried to control us throughout our history. We don't want them to do that anymore. That's why we care about the US elections.

humm maybe we shold stop the huge aids package Bush made for Africa... and go back to sending just about nothing.
If you're a Libertarian as you say you are you would be in favour of that.

But still, I don't tell them how to vote. I expect the same from them.

Usually we don't.. but at present you have a guy in office that has gone mad.. and the rest of us are very, very afraid.. :eek:

If you're a Libertarian as you say you are you would be in favour of that.

Exactly.

The simple answer is: because america is the most powerful country in the world. The economy of the world rests on the presidents shoulders same with foreign policy. If wall street crashed, like after 9/11 the whole world's trade is affected. Although atm compared to the £ the $ is weak. Probably almost the same when there is an election in Britain. But again in that case America is still involved, because the question is: will Britain be America's closest ally if conservatives got in (yes, probably closer) labour (yes, but backbenchers will moan) and Liberal Democrats (no way, they believe sucking up to europe is better). Sorry rant over.

The simple answer is: because america is the most powerful country in the world. The economy of the world rests on the presidents shoulders same with foreign policy. If wall street crashed, like after 9/11 the whole world's trade is affected. Although atm compared to the £ the $ is weak. Probably almost the same when there is an election in Britain. But again in that case America is still involved, because the question is: will Britain be America's closest ally if conservatives got in (yes, probably closer) labour (yes, but backbenchers will moan) and Liberal Democrats (no way, they believe sucking up to europe is better). Sorry rant over.

We brits have special reason to care, since our foreign policy is made in washington and, realistically, will still be after our next election.

Funny how the same stuff keeps getting citied in this thread. Do you think America will take notice?