NationStates Jolt Archive

When Christians pray, and what they pray for comes true, they attest that the event was thanks to God and the power of prayer.

When the event doesn't happen or go their way, Christians claim that God had other plans.

In light of this, what is the point of prayer? If you believe the first, that prayer can make things happen, it would seem that God makes his decisions by popular vote. So, if it doesn't go your way, it's merely because you didn't pray hard enough. On the flip side, if God does what he wants regardless of your prayers, what point is there in praying in the first place?

If everyone concentrates really hard, they can like make stuff happen. :D

It's a matter of faith...

usualy u dont pray for a certain thing to happen, your supposed to pray for guidance and strength for what is going to happen. When you pray for something to happen and it does w/o other explanation its called a miracle and when it doesnt you have to realize that there was a reason it didnt and to pray for strength in whatever the situation is. Plus it helps you get stuff off your mind and ur shoulders and into the hands of someone who can deal with it alot better than you can

2 words: placebo effect

It's not like you can put demands on God (my brain here calls up the Steve Martin movie where he'd smack people in the foreheads and proclaim "be healed!!") but it's the choice (free will, granted by God, to all humans) it's the choice to go to God with your needs and wants and thanks and praise and troubles and loves and heartaches and everything else, to walk with him and lean and depend on him instead of thinking that you're just so freaking cool that you can do it all on your own. Sometimes you get an obvious miracle, and sometimes God helps you through the hard times instead of taking the hard times away, and the lesson learned is the blessing.

becasue god changes his mind sometimes when you ask, but he never changes his mind if you don't thus i have 0.5 percent chance

becasue god changes his mind sometimes when you ask, but he never changes his mind if you don't thus i have 0.5 percent chance
how would an all-powerful and all-knowing being change his mind? if he is all-knowing then he already knew you wanted that thing, and he already made up his mind whether or not he was going to do it that way, and therefore your asking for it had no bearing on whether or not he would incorporate it into his plan.

becasue god changes his mind sometimes when you ask, but he never changes his mind if you don't thus i have 0.5 percent chance

.5%? I'm feeling lucky.

It obvious, prayer takes your mind of stuff. Its soothing, that's its power. Doesn't "work" though.

Prayer and meditation are basically the same thing if done right. If you pray all the time hoping to have God change stuff for you, you probably need to reexamine who you really think is in control. For me, prayer is a pursuit of enlightenment: meditating and attempting to understand God's presence by understanding why things happen the way they do, not trying to change them. So you're right, Irken-- a lot of people do seem to blame/justify things on God's will and then pray to change it. But I would say a more mature way of dealing with things is to use prayer to come to peace and understanding with the world and God's ways.

Oh, silly folk trying to be logical about God. Aquinas already told us that faith is beyond reason, so if something that the religion says doesn't make sense, the religion is right, one way or the other, because it comes from faith, and faith is far above reason.
Therefore, if the Church says to pray, you don't need a reason to pray, because if you can't reason one out, you're wrong. And if there is no logical reason, it's just because reason is wrong. Makes sense, right?

I dunno, as a Muslim, I feel obligated to this question.

I don't know how Christians view their prayers, but I think of prayers as a sign that you still have your faith in God. If we just ran around as if God would do everything for us, we might as well be atheists that occasionally wonder what God's gonna do this weekend for yourself.

Besides, I feel better praying to get a good time in a Cross Country race than to just brush off God and just run the race and hope for the best.

I guess the other thing I would say prayer is good for is to give thanks to God for the things He's done for us. I don't usually spend a lot of time begging Him to help me out, but I do try to give thanks for the ways He has.

I say usually because there are those times when I do feel a personal need to whine to the Big Guy. And whether or not it makes a difference, at least He will listen for as long as I talk.

.5%? I'm feeling lucky.
okay its larger than that, theirs a passage my mom once quoted, but I'm to lazy to do ask right now.

okay its larger than that, theirs a passage my mom once quoted, but I'm to lazy to do ask right now.

Odds are gettin better! I should like convert or maybe just pray and pretend to be Christian for a day! :D

I pray for a million bucks...

how would an all-powerful and all-knowing being change his mind? if he is all-knowing then he already knew you wanted that thing, and he already made up his mind whether or not he was going to do it that way, and therefore your asking for it had no bearing on whether or not he would incorporate it into his plan.
gods all knowing but praying to jesus is more likely to get the answer yes then to the father.

2 words: placebo effect

Bingo.

Odds are gettin better! I should like convert or maybe just pray and pretend to be Christian for a day! :D

I pray for a million bucks...

And you'll get it, inshallah.

It isn't really something that's exclusive to Christianity. Jews pray, as do Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, etc... Meditation, by itself, can be considered a form of "prayer." I think it's more about the power of intention than asking one's deity for a certain outcome to come about.
I've read in several magazines about studies showing that prayer has helped people deal with adverse health conditions. Interestingly though, I just googled "prayer" and "health" and the number one article was something that debunks certain studies that showed prayer helps as an "alternative" therapy.
Nonetheless, I stand by my point that it's the meditative aspect and intention that makes people less stressed and more at-ease with life. I don't think it will help anyone win the lottery, though.

2 words: placebo effect
Amazing how a request for christians to explain their views can bring all the intolerant fanatical atheists running. Guess what? He didn't ask for your comments. Thus, you can spare all of us your input.

Others have already explained it sufficiently I believe, and so I see no need to further remark on this issue. I hope that in the future someone may be able to read a few responses that are actually from christians, rather than having to sift through hundreds of sarcastic posts that were not even asked for.

how would an all-powerful and all-knowing being change his mind? if he is all-knowing then he already knew you wanted that thing, and he already made up his mind whether or not he was going to do it that way, and therefore your asking for it had no bearing on whether or not he would incorporate it into his plan.

I guess to play Devil's Advocate (or perhaps God's Advocate) here, perhaps He knew that you were going to ask him for it. Perhaps you're not changing His mind at all, and that which you thought His mind was was something entirely made up.

No, I don't think God changes his mind because of prayer. But I think He can help us understand what His mind really is if we ask. If I pray for a million dollars and don't get it, it's not that God's not coming through for me. I'm just not at all in tune with what the real things I should be asking for are. If I pray for humility and try to eschew pride, then I just might get it.

gods all knowing but praying to jesus is more likely to get the answer yes then to the father.
How's that work, when they're one in the same? Do you honestly specify which one you're praying to, because I'm not aware of anyone I know doing that.

Amazing how a request for christians to explain their views can bring all the intolerant fanatical atheists running. Guess what? He didn't ask for your comments. Thus, you can spare all of us your input.

Others have already explained it sufficiently I believe, and so I see no need to further remark on this issue. I hope that in the future someone may be able to read a few responses that are actually from christians, rather than having to sift through hundreds of sarcastic posts that were not even asked for.

Interestingly enough, I have talked to people who profess no faith in God whatsoever, and they have said that they did feel better after praying. Call it a placebo effect or whatever you will, it does work. And while I think there's more to it than that, if the placebo makes you feel more at ease with life, why not take it?

God already knows what is going to happen but you pray as an act of faith to go out of your way and show God your intentions and Godly desires.
We are to approach The Lord with thankfulness as we all deserve eternal damnation but through God's mercy and love, He sent Jesus to pay the burdon of our sins, so we should never be disapointed or demanding with God as He knows what is best.

In light of this, what is the point of prayer?
Religious people life an average of 2-4 years longer than non-religious people - so something's happening.
In 'the real world' nothing is either/or. Yes, a doctor can give you a magic pill or do surgery - but complications can still kill you. There's always an exception to everything. Once prayer becomes *real*, rather than a dodgy theory, you have to expect it to function in exactly the same way as everything in else in the real world - especially since you're praying to the God who created this world.
All of the 'explanations' for why prayer doesn't work are dodgy. I find that it's simply to assume that prayer always works, but you don't get the expected results there are simply too many other factors involved.

Another thought is whether you should be praying for this world or for the next. Who cares about a million dollars if you're burning in the next life?

It's a matter of faith...

That's the whole point of prayer. It doesn't matter what the outcome is, because, it's just a matter of believing that He's listening.

And while I think there's more to it than that, if the placebo makes you feel more at ease with life, why not take it?

Yes and no.
There are no problems if anyone is just happy "on" a placebo, but the mess starts when people start believing the placebo actually works.... and then start recommending it to other "sick" people as the only cure.

:)

Interestingly enough, I have talked to people who profess no faith in God whatsoever, and they have said that they did feel better after praying. Call it a placebo effect or whatever you will, it does work. And while I think there's more to it than that, if the placebo makes you feel more at ease with life, why not take it?

Ah, but here's the catch-it works no matter WHOM you pray to.

I'll bet that there's someone out there who feels better after praying to the Elder Gods whilst shouting "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!"

Which means there's no mark for any religion here, just spirituality in general.

Which means deists like me WIN! HA!

:sniper:
in my own humble opinion, prayer is no more and no less than talking to God, it is a chance to thank God for what He has done recently in your life as well as ask for guidance for whatever troubles you are currently going through. Prayer certainly is powerful, but I don'e think it is a way to get all your wishes granted. Prayer is more of you coming to God to see what He wants in your life than you coming to God so He can see what you want.

I dont think an average christian/muslim/othereligionist can reliably describe the value of prayer as most follow the faith more out of duty than passion. However, studies show Prayer is a form of meditation which does indeed force stillness and controlled breathing in the practicing individual, and focus them on accomplishing certain tasks, giving both psychosomatic and illusionary increases in energy and performance. I use prayer to meditate before playing soccer or similar sports.

Ah, but here's the catch-it works no matter WHOM you pray to.

I'll bet that there's someone out there who feels better after praying to the Elder Gods whilst shouting "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!"

Which means there's no mark for any religion here, just spirituality in general.

Which means deists like me WIN! HA!

Good! I hope we all win here. ;)

As a quasi-pagan, I'm not qualified to answer for the Christians, but I've always felt that prayer and meditation or wishing can be quite effective: it focuses your mind to what you want and helps empower you to achieve it. If there is a higher power that helps out, all the more reason to be thankful, and either way, humility and gratitude are good attributes to develop.

Besides, I don't really the logical fallacy in the original question. If the prayers are granted, then clearly your god was listening, and if not, he probably decided that you didn't need the help. If a child asks her mommy for homework help and mommy says no, she's a smart girl and can figure it out herself, that doesn't invalidate the asking. Clearly mom's plan doesn't involve helping the child do her homework. The child will just have to learn multiplication on her own, and will probably be a more independant and resourceful child for the experience. And if she receives help, then she probably needed it.