NationStates Jolt Archive

No I am not a Vet, but my dad is. He served his country for four years and served in Korea one year. He was assigned to Border Patrol duty in Korea, a deadly job. With both sides spewing about what President Bush or John Kerry did 30 years ago my dad is supporting Kerry. He said it was a slap in the face that Bush copped out of going to Vietnam by signing up to the National Guard under questionable curimstances. Not only that, another slap was added when he went A.W.O.L. for a year. Yes he heard about how the document might be forged, but those documents were signed by militatry personal. Its kinda hard to forge singature. However he does say that John Kerry did serve with honor in Vietnam. He saw the Purple Heart records and as far as he can see he earned all three under fair circumstances. He said it was the norm for men who earned 3 purple hearts to go home in Vietnam. He also states, why is everyone so hung up that he only served 4 month? A man can serve his country for 20 years, and yet never see a day of action. While another man only serve a few month, but has engaged in battle almost daily. Because the first man served his country for 20 years while the other a few month, does that make him better in any way? The answear is NO! My dad states as long as anyone stands up to the call of war they have served their country. Bush didn't stand up, he just snuck away and protected Texas. As for Kerry actions after he has returned, my dad states he has served his country. He can join the Vietnam Veteran Agianst the War organization if he wants to. He also states that just because him and Jane Fonda were captured in the same picture at the same place doesn't mean they ever talked to one another. As for Kerry Congressional hearing. He has stated that Kerry told the truth about Vietnam and because Bush track records isn't exactly all that great, they decides to warp his statement to fit their smear campagin. He states that Bush has used the militatry for his own adgenda and its time to stop. He states that the Afghan War and Bin Laden should've been our TOP Priority, not Iraq, not Saddam, not WMD's that doesn't really exsit.

People, both Republicans and Democrats, we need to stop listening to Sound Bytes, to Rush Limbaugh, Micheal Moore. We need to stop taking what CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, to heart. We are in an age where every bit of information ever created in human history is at the tip of our fingers, the Internet. We need to do our own reaserch and do our own thinking instead of having other people do it for us. So when you go vote on Nov. 2nd, Don't pay attention to any media source. Do some reaserch before you head to the polls, watch the debates, and think for yourself.

Err.... Does your "Dad" even know what this election is about?

No vet that I know will ever forgive Kerry for his testimony.

So when you go vote on Nov. 2nd, Don't pay attention to any media source. Do some reaserch before you head to the polls, watch the debates, and think for yourself.

Basically, you're saying we should shut ourselves into a box and pretend like the media doesn't exist? Because unless you're not going to come out of your closet for the next month or so, you are going to be affected by the media whether you choose to do so or not.

Err.... Does your "Dad" even know what this election is about?

Yes, Me and him were just talking about what actually happened 30 years ago Vs. what the Bush regime wants you to believe.

Yes, well if your "Dad" had been paying closer attention he would have noticed that no-one, apart from kerry and the swift boat veterans, care about what happened thirty years ago. Maybe they should, but there it is.

Your "Dad" also knows that Kerry called him a war criminal on the Dick cavett show in 1972, too, doesn't he?

This has to be the worst bit of agitprop yet. (And please, nobody post some mindless definition of what agitprop really is - I'm taking artistic license so there)

You know my father has never lied to me. I doubt he would lie to me about this, and how old are you? Because if you are just some punk kid in Middle School, then I don't think you have any right to talk until you have the guts to go serve your country. You know I am amazed. Here the Republicans are spreading lies about what actually happened 30 years ago, and yet their own man REFUSED to go to Vietnam. He somehow managed to get ahead of a LONG waiting list of the Texas Air National Guard. He refuse to take a drug test or any kind of test. On top of all that he went A.W.O.L. For a year! (Once again the document that MAY have been forged has singatures on them, and singatures are HARD to forge). If its anybody its Bush that makes men like my dad and Mr. Kerry look bad.

Yes, well if your "Dad" had been paying closer attention he would have noticed that no-one, apart from kerry and the swift boat veterans, care about what happened thirty years ago. Maybe they should, but there it is.

Your "Dad" also knows that Kerry called him a war criminal on the Dick cavett show in 1972, too, doesn't he?

This has to be the worst bit of agitprop yet. (And please, nobody post some mindless definition of what agitprop really is - I'm taking artistic license so there)

Bloody hell, this as been discused SO many fucking times it's not even funny. At all. It's even less funny then Munke.

He said in the speech that some soldiers came to him, saying "I did shit." They all collectively asked him to "say what shit we done."

And he did.

So shut the FUCK up until you actually understand what you're saying.


No vet that I know will ever forgive Kerry for his testimony.
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You know my father has never lied to me. I doubt he would lie to me about this, and how old are you? Because if you are just some punk kid in Middle School, then I don't think you have any right to talk until you have the guts to go serve your country. You know I am amazed. Here the Republicans are spreading lies about what actually happened 30 years ago, and yet their own man REFUSED to go to Vietnam. He somehow managed to get ahead of a LONG waiting list of the Texas Air National Guard. He refuse to take a drug test or any kind of test. On top of all that he went A.W.O.L. For a year! (Once again the document that MAY have been forged has singatures on them, and singatures are HARD to forge). If its anybody its Bush that makes men like my dad and Mr. Kerry look bad.

They didn't do drug tests while Bush was in the guard, genius. Bush was transferring to a unit that didn't have the planes he knew how to fly, so he didn't take the flight test since he had no need for it. You have to believe forged documents to believe he was reprimanded for it. He never noticed, because no one ever pressed the issue, since the tests were irrelevant. The documents are an obvious forgery.

You can't compare not going to vietnam, which millions of Americans got out of, to going for 4 months and selling out every man in the service for war crimes when you got back, WITHOUT proof, other than rumors and contrived testimony.

Bloody hell, this as been discused SO many fucking times it's not even funny. At all. It's even less funny then Munke.

He said in the speech that some soldiers came to him, saying "I did shit." They all collectively asked him to "say what shit we done."

And he did.

And he gave this speech on the dick cavett show, did he? Because no one remembers that, they remeber him talking about the war crimes he and everyone else committed

So shut the FUCK up until you actually understand what you're saying.

And if you undestood anything, you'd see that my real point is no-one cares about what happened thirty years ago anyway, but you're so in love with john kerry you cry every time you think someone insults him.

Why is this US election all about the Vietnam war? It seems to me that the Americans have a couple of more resent wars to worry about.

Why is this US election all about the Vietnam war? It seems to me that the Americans have a couple of more resent wars to worry about.

It never was, until the dems thought they could beat bush over the head with the whole vietnam thing. But then it turned out a lot of veterans don't like Kerry anyway, so it kinda backfired. So then they started to write up false memos about bush and CBS put them on the news proving that bush was AWOL and a whole bunch of other things. But see, the memo's were fake and it was pretty obvious, still a lot of dems really embarrassed themselves defending them and ended up looking like asses. And still the "swifties won't go away." Ever since then the whole thing has been a real hot button and won't go away either.

They really should have picked Dean. He was a much better candidate, but the MSM hated him and love kerry, and so that's what the party voted for.

Thank your Dad, my Bro for serving!

Now, I'm a vet, and also a careerist. I have many years, but many less to go. I have been to combat, and on peace keeping missions, etc.... Guess what? I don't have a single PH. The man left, HE QUIT, with just a minor laceration to his right hand for his 3rd PH.

Now, bill clinton left the whole damn country, and folks love him. Get over it. G.W. JOINED, he SIGNED the dotted line for the guard. Do you really know what that means? Let me help. He stood up to be counted, and JOINED the guard. He learned to fly fighter aircraft. He could have been called to duty, but was not.

Now let me tell you one little secret. If you read the award presentation, any of them, or the AAR that was posted to the net, you will see that Mr Kerry was a USNR Officer. That is United States Navy Reserve :eek: . He WAS not a volunteer active duty guy, but just a reservist, just like the President!

And if you undestood anything, you'd see that my real point is no-one cares about what happened thirty years ago anyway, but you're so in love with john kerry you cry every time you think someone insults him.

Oh no, I was just responding to the whole "Kerry says that EVERYONE'S A WAR CRIMINAL ONEONEONE thing.

Really, I don't like Kerry too much (damn you two party system!) but he has the chance to get rid of Bush, and I do think he'll be better.

Please, I make fun of everyone, I don't love Kerry :p



And I do agree-people need to stop talking about vietnam. Let's face it-they BOTH screwed up in that aspect. Call 'em both idiots and be done with it :p

Err.... Does your "Dad" even know what this election is about?
Obviously it is about a war that happened 30 years ago...
No wonder his dad supports Kerry...

Obviously it is about a war that happened 30 years ago...
No wonder his dad supports Kerry...

Great the little kids who wee wee would shrink inside them before they have the guts to serve comes out to play. My dad and myself support Kerry because its pretty damn obvious with the War in Iraq, The economy and several other factors that Bush doesn't know what the hell he is doing. As for Bush signing up for the TANG. Good for him, at least he kept Texas safe from the Vietchong. Yea a real man there.

Great the little kids who wee wee would shrink inside them before they have the guts to serve comes out to play. My dad and myself support Kerry because its pretty damn obvious with the War in Iraq, The economy and several other factors that Bush doesn't know what the hell he is doing. As for Bush signing up for the TANG. Good for him, at least he kept Texas safe from the Vietchong. Yea a real man there.

Vietchong -? Is that some hitherto unused anti-asian racial epithet ? Oh very mature, I bet your "Dad" taught you that one.

My dad and myself support Kerry because its pretty damn obvious with the War in Iraq, The economy and several other factors that Bush doesn't know what the hell he is doing.

Then why not talk about those things then instead of going on about Kerry's medals and bushes "AWOL".

BTW does your "Dad" hate Jimmy Carter ?

Vietchong -? Is that some hitherto unused anti-asian racial epithet ? Oh very mature, I bet your "Dad" taught you that one.

LOL! Jesus Christ, Dude in the Vietnam War, there was the Viet-Chong, or Charlie. I am not anti-asian. In fact I've been dating a Filipina for quite a while and my dad has embraced her as one of his own.

Then why not talk about those things then instead of going on about Kerry's medals and bushes "AWOL".

BTW does your "Dad" hate Jimmy Carter ?

Because My dad and myself are tired of Republicans painting Bush as the next Five Star General while painting Kerry as a punk trouble maker. My dad (and you can stop using the " "), actually have no opinion of Carter.

I am an American veteran of the Army. I am voting for John F. Kerry to be the next President of the United States. Beyond Mr. Kerry's smarter approach to domestic issues, including civil rights and security, Mr. Kerry understands the truth about war. Current President George W. Bush launched the U.S. into a war, for the first time since we beat the British as we were breaking away as a colony. I do not want a bloodthirsty idiot running the country any more. There are many other reasons to vote for Mr. Kerry as the next leader of this country. It is important to remove Mr. Bush, however, because a preemptive conventional war is only one step shy of launching a preemptive nuclear war, and hence ending all life on this planet.

LOL! Jesus Christ, Dude in the Vietnam War, there was the Viet-Chong, or Charlie. I am not anti-asian. In fact I've been dating a Filipina for quite a while and my dad has embraced her as one of his own.

I presume then you mean the vietcong, the anti-government guerillas. Why not say so then. There is no need to add racial slurs.


Because My dad and myself are tired of Republicans painting Bush as the next Five Star General while painting Kerry as a punk trouble maker. My dad (and you can stop using the " "), actually have no opinion of Carter.

Well, Carter pardoned all the "draft-dodgers" in 1977. Given your "Dad's" current invective about people not heeding the country's call to service I would have thought he would have felt more strongly about it. Apparently, as I suspected all along, this is no-more than partisanship at work.

Seriously dude, it's all in the past.

Bloody hell, this as been discused SO many fucking times it's not even funny. At all. It's even less funny then Munke.

He said in the speech that some soldiers came to him, saying "I did shit." They all collectively asked him to "say what shit we done."

And he did.

So shut the FUCK up until you actually understand what you're saying.



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Goed, you are right, this has been discussed... and just about everytime I have to point out you are wrong.

Kerry lied in his testimony, when he accused the President and the Pentagon of ordering the war crimes that those soldiers who said "I did shit" committed.

Perhaps you should stfu until you actually understand what you're saying.

I am an American veteran of the Army. I am voting for John F. Kerry to be the next President of the United States. Beyond Mr. Kerry's smarter approach to domestic issues, including civil rights and security, Mr. Kerry understands the truth about war. Current President George W. Bush launched the U.S. into a war, for the first time since we beat the British as we were breaking away as a colony. I do not want a bloodthirsty idiot running the country any more. There are many other reasons to vote for Mr. Kerry as the next leader of this country. It is important to remove Mr. Bush, however, because a preemptive conventional war is only one step shy of launching a preemptive nuclear war, and hence ending all life on this planet.
Your oath says "you do solemnly swear that you will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that you will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over you, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help you God."
If you happen to have the other version, then think about how much would be for naught if you backed out now!

Are you willing to allow the UN or some other sanction to tell the President when he can defend the homeland?

The President may not be an 8, but that's better than a #6 waffle!

All the Vietnam vets that I know agree that both Bush and Kerry disgraced the nation with their respective services in the Vietnam era.

My dad's a vet too, and while he acknowledges that just about anyone who could avoid the draft did, so Bush ain't nothing special in that respect, at least Kerry actually made it to Vietnam, and did his time there. Hell, my dad wouldn't even mind so much if Bush would be honest about it, like Clinton. It didn't hurt Clinton much that he dodged the draft, and it may have helped him that he was honest about it. Bush, on the other hand, lied about dodging the draft, dodged it, and then expects us not to think it reflects on his overall character. What if the US were going to hell, and Bush bailed out on us, or decided to do whatever were in his own personal interests?

Maybe this election isn't about service records, but you have to admit that Bush lied his ass off. It would have looked better if he had simply told the truth. He hasn't even got the character to own his actions.

I presume then you mean the vietcong, the anti-government guerillas. Why not say so then. There is no need to add racial slurs.

Grow the fuck up and stop pointing out simple spelling errors instead of actually debating the pertinent points of his argument, or I will follow you around from thread to thread pointing out every single grammar and spelling error that you make.

I don't think that either Presidential candidate should be using their military records in this campaign. Reserves? Four months? Christ, my grandfather served in WWII for 6 goddamn years. Sure, he got a few medals, but he deserved them. I'm sick of people calling Kerry a hero and glorifying the fact that he got a bronze star because he some Vietnamese kid in the back. How fucking nobel. Vote Nader.

My dad's a vet too, and while he acknowledges that just about anyone who could avoid the draft did, so Bush ain't nothing special in that respect, at least Kerry actually made it to Vietnam, and did his time there. Hell, my dad wouldn't even mind so much if Bush would be honest about it, like Clinton. It didn't hurt Clinton much that he dodged the draft, and it may have helped him that he was honest about it. Bush, on the other hand, lied about dodging the draft, dodged it, and then expects us not to think it reflects on his overall character. What if the US were going to hell, and Bush bailed out on us, or decided to do whatever were in his own personal interests?

Maybe this election isn't about service records, but you have to admit that Bush lied his ass off. It would have looked better if he had simply told the truth. He hasn't even got the character to own his actions.

"at least Kerry actually made it to Vietnam, and did his time there" Mr Kerry went, yes, as pointed out elsewhere, as a Naval Reserve guy, similar to The President as a Guardsmen. His time? He did 4-5 months of a 12 month tour. He quit, He abandoned ship, he left early because he scratched his hand in order to get his 3rd PH. Ask a Vietnam Vet how many people he knows got 3 PHs? Ask them how many they know got 1, and how long did it take to recover?

Mr Kerry missed less than 3 days of duty, FOR ALL THREE WOUNDS!

"at least Kerry actually made it to Vietnam, and did his time there" Mr Kerry went, yes, as pointed out elsewhere, as a Naval Reserve guy, similar to The President as a Guardsmen. His time? He did 4-5 months of a 12 month tour. He quit, He abandoned ship, he left early because he scratched his hand in order to get his 3rd PH. Ask a Vietnam Vet how many people he knows got 3 PHs? Ask them how many they know got 1, and how long did it take to recover?

Mr Kerry missed less than 3 days of duty, FOR ALL THREE WOUNDS!

I feel compelled to ask how many days of duty in Vietnam Mr. Bush missed for his various wartime injuries.

Bush, on the other hand, lied about dodging the draft, dodged it, and then expects us not to think it reflects on his overall character. What if the US were going to hell, and Bush bailed out on us, or decided to do whatever were in his own personal interests?

When has Bush said anything other than he was in the texas national guard, and he has a point that the national guard don't deserve to be slammed for being less than patriotic, he's admitted to having done drugs and other stuff at college, but has had them swept away by pretty much saying, they were the actions of a foolish kid, and only the most partisan refuse to accept that.

In all honesty, I would imagine Kerry feels that his testimony when he came back was the act of a foolish kid too, as it's really only foolish children of all ages that think he did the right thing in the position he was in. However Kerry has not (and probably won't) openly admit to it, and until he actually says "sorry", he won't even be able to begin healing the rift with a great deal of the former vietnam vets, especially the ones who had his words used as torture in pow camps.

Grow the fuck up and stop pointing out simple spelling errors instead of actually debating the pertinent points of his argument, or I will follow you around from thread to thread pointing out every single grammar and spelling error that you make.

To be honest I think the "[g]reat the little kids who wee wee would shrink inside them before they have the guts to serve comes out to play" comment foreclosed the civility option before I posted that, but whatever.

And for your edification it’s grammatical error, not “grammar error”. Pompous ass.

To be honest I think the "[g]reat the little kids who wee wee would shrink inside them before they have the guts to serve comes out to play" comment foreclosed the civility option before I posted that, but whatever.

And for your edification it’s grammatical error, not “grammar error”. Pompous ass.

So, rather than debate the points of his argument, you felt it necessary to ridicule his spelling? How mature of you. And thank you for the grammar lesson. Or is it grammatical lesson?

For your edification:


I presume then you mean the Vietcong, the anti-government guerillas. Why not say so then? There is no need to add racial slurs.

Just your last post. I'm probably missing some, too.

So, rather than debate the points of his argument, you felt it necessary to ridicule his spelling? How mature of you. And thank you for the grammar lesson. Or is it grammatical lesson?


Grammar lesson; obviously.

No need to thank me.

And how, exactly, I am supposed to debate the points raised by "[g]reat the little kids who wee wee would shrink inside them before they have the guts to serve comes out to play?"

I know, I could tell him to "[g]row the fuck up" and threaten to follow him around while being an ass, but whatever.

"at least Kerry actually made it to Vietnam, and did his time there" Mr Kerry went, yes, as pointed out elsewhere, as a Naval Reserve guy, similar to The President as a Guardsmen. His time? He did 4-5 months of a 12 month tour. He quit, He abandoned ship, he left early because he scratched his hand in order to get his 3rd PH. Ask a Vietnam Vet how many people he knows got 3 PHs? Ask them how many they know got 1, and how long did it take to recover?

Mr Kerry missed less than 3 days of duty, FOR ALL THREE WOUNDS!

Mr. Bush didn't do any time in Vietnam at all. It's pretty well known, and was at the time, that if you joined the National Guard, you didn't get drafted and sent to Vietnam. Of course....the places available in the National Guard were limited at the time Bush joined. This was not insurmountable, though, given enough influence and/or money. Don't try to tell me for an instant that Bush has been honest about his behavior. He makes excuses for anything he can't outright deny. That's not much of a man, in my opinion.

I'm not exactly part of Kerry's fan club either, but at least he was man enough to go to Vietnam at all.

As an independent bystander, I think all the arguing about Bush and Kerry's war records is really weird. When I choose a lawyer, I will be asking not what they have done for their country, but whether they are good at lawyering. If I need a plumber, I will maybe try to get evidence of their previous plumbing record. I won't need to know what their military service history is. Even if the President is the CinC of the US military, they don't actually do any actual fighting. Who cares what they did in Vietnam? Not me.