NationStates Jolt Archive

Alright, I know I said I wouldn't start a thread again, and that I'd stay away from politics. My bad; I'm procrastinating from doing homework at midnight, and this question has plagued me for a while.

Disclaimer: For starters, most people, including yours truly, are misinformed idiots --- The sad thing is, many people (not including yours truly) are intentionally misinformed idiots, i.e., they don't bother looking up facts or listening to opposing arguments or opinions; some would probably even be in favor of slavery if their parents / neighbors / preachers told them it was a good idea [don't even think of responding, CM]. --- Anyways, a lot of what we hear is filtered through bias sources, imbedded with half-truths, lies, and unspoken elements, and peppered with disgustingly obvious and pathetic attempts to appeal to our (surely not my non-existent) patriotism and religious convictions. In short, in this day and age of politics, it is very hard to tell what a politician can and will do (no matter what they say they will do): That is, whether "their way" would actually work, whether in terms of the economy and jobs, education and healthcare, and of course, foreign policy.

That said, I ask the general public of this forum, whose views differ from fascist to communist, and whose intellectual capacities range from brainwashed-yuppie to learned and humble philosopher, a simple question:

What is the main reason behind your vote [read: why do you want your candidate to win] for U.S. President in 2004?

This question arose when I came to terms with my friend deciding to vote for Bush. (Note: I'm from Los Angeles, where the Democrats are Greens, and the people who should be Democrats think themselves Republicans). His reasoning behind his vote, which I can see quite sound reasoning in, was that while Bush might be incredibly bad for civil rights, education, welfare, and the environment (I could claim that he is bad for the economy, healthcare, and jobs, but I don't know/care much about those subjects), he is a better [not necessarily more competent] leader with regards to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, in accomplishing more by blowing off the UN (except for not signing the land mine ban), and in understanding how to deal with North Korea and Iran (as long as he doesn't push them too over the edge.)
A sound argument, I admit: National security trumps all, even civil rights and basic domestic issues that we liberals care so much about. I realized then, as I suspected before, that there was no way that everyone who votes for Bush or Kerry necessarily agrees with all of their views, they're just trying to pick the one that does more good than evil.

So now I'm asking, I suppose as a way to find out whose opinion I'll need to value (and whose I should ignore), who would you vote for if there were no war in Iraq/Afghanistan, and no eminent threat of terrorism?

I suppose I should expect a half-half like the 2000 election (not to infer that NS forum is an accurate representation), but the optimist in me would like to believe that most of you understand that Bush is terrible when it comes to basic social issues, and simply base your opinions on this election on the issue of national security.

Then again, I did note the wide spectrum of beliefs on NS, and maybe I just don't want to do my homework (Junior year sucks!).

Anyway, feel free to answer the poll no matter where you're from, and also please tell me what issues are most important to you when voting for a candidate, and in various cases of crises, what trumps all other causes...

Ugh... Well this poll seems scientifically accurate (sarcasm)... I hope it just sinks to the bottom of all the other threads unnoticed. (BUMP!)

I'd vote for Kerry, only because I don't want to vote for Bush.

I'm usually split between republicans and democrats on issues and usually side with the republicans, but this time I have to make an exception.

Bush has just gone too conservative for my likes. For instance, his stance on Gay Marriages. If two people want to get married, let them. How does it hurt you if two people you don't know do something you'd never find out about anyways? (Besides, lesbians are kinda cool). Just because he doesn't like it doesn't mean he should try and force his view on others, especially since he is the president.

And wanting to stop human cloning? Sure, lets let some other country get a heads up on our own scientists. All he's doing is holding us back. That's retarded. If scientists aren't hurting others, let them research, especially if it's with the intent to help others.

No child left behind? Good for the most part, until you get to the whole choices for parents of kids in schools that are "below par." Now, this is going to sound elitist, because it is. I'm not for moving kids from lower income families to other schools to even them out. The problem with the bad school should be remedied. Moving the students out is like ignoring a problem. On top of that, I can only see the recieving schools slowly getting worse until they level out. Of course, my views on this are as they are because I see most people as stupid and not just ignorant.

Then, Bush has picked ultra-conservatives for spot after spot. He even picks an attorney general who couldn't beat a dead guy in a bid for governor.

That's why I'd vote for anyone who stood a chance of beating Bush.

First off, I disregard the myth that Bush somehow is a more capable leader in the war against AlQueda. As well, Bush's stance on social issues is MORE than enough for me to decide.

Yeah, I've seen firsthand, behind the scenes, things in the war on terrorism or the war in Iraq. I can hardly see how that's capability at all.

If anyone actually thinks that voting for Bush is good idea becuase of the way he's handled Iraq, or Afghanistan....

Im calling you crazy, right here and now.

Iraq is a big fat mess.
Bush knew it would be...and did it anyway.
That = bad idea.

Aghanistan.....

Osama STILL on the loose.
Al-Qeada STILL operating in Afgahanistan.

How in the hell can anyone seriously think that hes doing a good job on the "war on terror"?

That's why I'd vote for anyone who stood a chance of beating Bush.

THe sad thing is, i don't know if Kerry is capable of beating Bush. Also your satcne on cloning is just pathetically competitive. It sounds like your afraid of other countries making uber-humans and taking over america. :sniper:

First off, I disregard the myth that Bush somehow is a more capable leader in the war against AlQueda. As well, Bush's stance on social issues is MORE than enough for me to decide.

As do I. I'm just saying though, even though I care immensely about social issues, probably more than all of you combined, if Bush really is more adept in "the war on terror", then that beats out the possiblity of the US slipping back a few steps in progressive social reform. Besides, from what I've heard, many European countries are also facing obnoxiously conservative leaders who are scaling back "first ammendment rights". (Or I'm just a misinformed idiot).

Better Bush start a holocaust than allow a nuclear holocaust --- or some dramatic hyberbole like that.

Anyways, no, personally I don't think Bush is handling the "war on terror" with any ability. The points my friend raised were that Kerry's idea of bilateral talks and more involvement of the UN would lead us back to where we started, except with people (good and bad) more pissed at us.

Economy is more important for me than the "War on Terrah." I completely disagree with Bush's tax cuts. At a time when Bush is majorly increasing government spending, he should not be cutting taxes, especially on the scale he has been to the top 1% or 2% in the country.

And anyway, in regards to terrorism, which everyone seems to think is Bush's strong point, his policies only help terrorists gain new recruits. He's making us LESS secure, not more.

A little off topic now:
Some people like to slam Kerry supporters because they are more anti-Bush than they are pro-Kerry. I personally don't see why that's such a bad reason to support someone. Bush had his four years, and I would rather have just about anybody who appears to be competent take his place now, because I don't think he's done a good job at all. Some of these same people like to slam Kerry because so much of his campaign is pointing out flaws in Bush's administration. Sorry, but that comes with the territory of running against an incumbent. To be able to win, you have to be able to convince the voters that the incumbent has not done a good job during their term.

Economy is more important for me than the "War on Terrah."
So close. But clearly you mean the War on Terra - otherwise known as the Who's Next Game. :rolleyes:

I will not be voting for either of them because quite frankly, they don't deserve my vote.

I see the war in Iraq a little differently. You see, we took the fight there, and it's still there! It's great all of these fence riding suicide bombers are doing what they do, and they do it where they are doing it. (I have been to Iraq, I have the combat patch, so don't even!)

Afganistan is coming around, they had their elections, the al-quadi cells are very few and far between now. OBL is too concerned with personal safety than he is with attempting to plot his next major attack.

Taxes, ah well. At least that other guy is saying he will raise taxes, so he can't be called out on that issue! We all should know that the follow on tax year will have an increase, why not just say it, and do it now?

Research, we are and have been the world leader in a lot of areas, now is NOT the time to waffle on this issue. We need to maintain our scientific research, and possibly fund for more.

If we go against The Bible, and The Pope, then what is next? Will we then be above the Constitution? Reality may be different, but the word is written!

Health care, ok so we are the leader in pharmaceuticals does that really mean we have to pay the most? The other guys plan is simple enough, import from Canada. Geez, if we have to pay 150% of cost but export at 35%, we ought to find a better way! I take a little white pill daily, it cost $1.50 here, but in Europe, I can get it for 0.59 Euro. Same pill, same packaging, same marking, but half the price!
This needs to be fixed.

I don't fully agree with all of their policies, but for the moment, I'm still with G.W.

In that hypothetical, I wouldn't vote for either of them. In the real world, I'm still not voting for either of them.

Ok I remeber reading in this thread creators first statement that he was hoping for people to come in and respond with facts they have researched. That he was hoping for people to come in and speak those things not just the things they hear on the news and follow like brain dead morons(my thought of those who do). All I have heard is the same propaganda from those media brainwash superstores even from the creator of this thread. On social and domestic issues Kerry says "we have a plan". This plan is well thought out I am sure. Healthcare for all children, the same healthcare that the senate has will be availible. The first is while incredibly important not feasible without a severe hike in taxes. The second at what cost, will it be given to us as it is to the senate and coingress, I doubt it. Jobs what can he do to create more jobs than is being done, quit outsourcing jobs, good idea I am sick of talking to a foreign person everytime I call the support center of an american company. Problem is he doesn't practice that or atleast his wife doesn't 80% of Heinz factories are in other countries like China, Mexico, Europe, and Africa. Bring home your own companies and than tell me you will stop outsourcing. Kerry voting record is somewhat scary to me. Already I pay alot of taxes and would be willing to pay more if such things as Government provided healthcare were being instated, but that has not been offered. I believe that is the single most awesome thing Canada and alot of the Commonwealth countries have ghoing for them. I feel Kerry will raise taxes quite alot to cover all these supposed miracle fixes that he is promising to Americans as a whole. Bush has not been the dream president for me. I know that I have several issues with some of the decisions he has made. I am not for all these illegals coming in and making a good go of it here and returning to there countries as kings. I am not for continual war which is what a war on terror is. You kill one terrorist you create 2 more. Though to let them grow and breed unchecked is somewhat of a scary thought to. I remember my grandfather and even history class telling me when the world war 2 happened all Japanese in this country were gathered up until the war was over to protect us from inside. I used to think that was absoloutely horrible tell I started hearing some wierd things from within this country. There whole communities of Muslims that will not turn in a terrorist if they know he is living within there community. To me that sounds pretty unappreciative to the fact of all the freedom they have here in this country, they have decided that if they are here to do this coutry they love harm they will not tell anyone. To me anyone who makes a statement like that should be sent else where permanantly. Now as far as scientific research Bush is not hindering us or keepingus in the dark ages. He has increased funding toward Stem Cell research against the wishes of some of his conservative lobbyists. He just hasn't been trying to fund ebrionic stem cell research. As far as cloning people how many truly take a good look at our country as we speak. I have and the absoloutely disregard for human life is appaling. If we could clone human beings we would have even less care for humans than we do now. If we could replace organs that are being destroyed by unhealthy lifestyles than we would just further promote longterm versions of suicide and in essence be assisting them in that action. The body was created to work fine if we take care of it, but we choose to destroy it and take it for granted rather than be appreciative of our gift. I will vote for Bush this year because I would hate to see the reprocutions upon this country of the most liberal senator in the senate lead this country to its death.

I am planning to vote for Kerry and would still in the hypothetical on the basis that President Bush wants to Constitutionally prohibit me from marrying my girlfriend.

If it weren't for national security I might have been willing to go with Kerry. Maybe I could agree with him a bit more if not for national security.

Ok I remeber reading in this thread creators first statement that he was hoping for people to come in and respond with facts they have researched. That he was hoping for people to come in and speak those things not just the things they hear on the news and follow like brain dead morons(my thought of those who do). All I have heard is the same propaganda from those media brainwash superstores even from the creator of this thread. On social and domestic issues Kerry says "we have a plan". This plan is well thought out I am sure. Healthcare for all children, the same healthcare that the senate has will be availible. The first is while incredibly important not feasible without a severe hike in taxes. The second at what cost, will it be given to us as it is to the senate and coingress, I doubt it. Jobs what can he do to create more jobs than is being done, quit outsourcing jobs, good idea I am sick of talking to a foreign person everytime I call the support center of an american company. Problem is he doesn't practice that or atleast his wife doesn't 80% of Heinz factories are in other countries like China, Mexico, Europe, and Africa. Bring home your own companies and than tell me you will stop outsourcing. Kerry voting record is somewhat scary to me. Already I pay alot of taxes and would be willing to pay more if such things as Government provided healthcare were being instated, but that has not been offered. I believe that is the single most awesome thing Canada and alot of the Commonwealth countries have ghoing for them. I feel Kerry will raise taxes quite alot to cover all these supposed miracle fixes that he is promising to Americans as a whole. Bush has not been the dream president for me. I know that I have several issues with some of the decisions he has made. I am not for all these illegals coming in and making a good go of it here and returning to there countries as kings. I am not for continual war which is what a war on terror is. You kill one terrorist you create 2 more. Though to let them grow and breed unchecked is somewhat of a scary thought to. I remember my grandfather and even history class telling me when the world war 2 happened all Japanese in this country were gathered up until the war was over to protect us from inside. I used to think that was absoloutely horrible tell I started hearing some wierd things from within this country. There whole communities of Muslims that will not turn in a terrorist if they know he is living within there community. To me that sounds pretty unappreciative to the fact of all the freedom they have here in this country, they have decided that if they are here to do this coutry they love harm they will not tell anyone. To me anyone who makes a statement like that should be sent else where permanantly. Now as far as scientific research Bush is not hindering us or keepingus in the dark ages. He has increased funding toward Stem Cell research against the wishes of some of his conservative lobbyists. He just hasn't been trying to fund ebrionic stem cell research. As far as cloning people how many truly take a good look at our country as we speak. I have and the absoloutely disregard for human life is appaling. If we could clone human beings we would have even less care for humans than we do now. If we could replace organs that are being destroyed by unhealthy lifestyles than we would just further promote longterm versions of suicide and in essence be assisting them in that action. The body was created to work fine if we take care of it, but we choose to destroy it and take it for granted rather than be appreciative of our gift. I will vote for Bush this year because I would hate to see the reprocutions upon this country of the most liberal senator in the senate lead this country to its death.

Ok I remeber reading in this thread creators first statement that he was hoping for people to come in and respond with facts they have researched. That he was hoping for people to come in and speak those things not just the things they hear on the news and follow like brain dead morons(my thought of those who do). All I have heard is the same propaganda from those media brainwash superstores even from the creator of this thread. On social and domestic issues Kerry says "we have a plan". This plan is well thought out I am sure. Healthcare for all children, the same healthcare that the senate has will be availible. The first is while incredibly important not feasible without a severe hike in taxes. The second at what cost, will it be given to us as it is to the senate and coingress, I doubt it. Jobs what can he do to create more jobs than is being done, quit outsourcing jobs, good idea I am sick of talking to a foreign person everytime I call the support center of an american company. Problem is he doesn't practice that or atleast his wife doesn't 80% of Heinz factories are in other countries like China, Mexico, Europe, and Africa. Bring home your own companies and than tell me you will stop outsourcing. Kerry voting record is somewhat scary to me. Already I pay alot of taxes and would be willing to pay more if such things as Government provided healthcare were being instated, but that has not been offered. I believe that is the single most awesome thing Canada and alot of the Commonwealth countries have ghoing for them. I feel Kerry will raise taxes quite alot to cover all these supposed miracle fixes that he is promising to Americans as a whole. Bush has not been the dream president for me. I know that I have several issues with some of the decisions he has made. I am not for all these illegals coming in and making a good go of it here and returning to there countries as kings. I am not for continual war which is what a war on terror is. You kill one terrorist you create 2 more. Though to let them grow and breed unchecked is somewhat of a scary thought to. I remember my grandfather and even history class telling me when the world war 2 happened all Japanese in this country were gathered up until the war was over to protect us from inside. I used to think that was absoloutely horrible tell I started hearing some wierd things from within this country. There whole communities of Muslims that will not turn in a terrorist if they know he is living within there community. To me that sounds pretty unappreciative to the fact of all the freedom they have here in this country, they have decided that if they are here to do this coutry they love harm they will not tell anyone. To me anyone who makes a statement like that should be sent else where permanantly. Now as far as scientific research Bush is not hindering us or keepingus in the dark ages. He has increased funding toward Stem Cell research against the wishes of some of his conservative lobbyists. He just hasn't been trying to fund ebrionic stem cell research. As far as cloning people how many truly take a good look at our country as we speak. I have and the absoloutely disregard for human life is appaling. If we could clone human beings we would have even less care for humans than we do now. If we could replace organs that are being destroyed by unhealthy lifestyles than we would just further promote longterm versions of suicide and in essence be assisting them in that action. The body was created to work fine if we take care of it, but we choose to destroy it and take it for granted rather than be appreciative of our gift. I will vote for Bush this year because I would hate to see the reprocutions upon this country of the most liberal senator in the senate lead this country to its death.


:rolleyes: Yawn i couldt even be bothered reading the first line, its either liberal or pro-Bush flame. Keep it concise sopme people dont have avery long attention span.*Wanders off to look at a fly*ooh pretty

:rolleyes: Yawn i couldt even be bothered reading the first line, its either liberal or pro-Bush flame. Keep it concise sopme people dont have avery long attention span.*Wanders off to look at a fly*ooh pretty

"The American people can't be bothered with this long complicated crap. Can't you just trim it down?"

And that's why people say that Americans (and 21st century people as a whole) are ignorant, fickle, stupid, and completely undeserving of a voice in politics. If you can't or won't find a way to read into opposing opinions and arguements (or even to research a topic on the whole), why should your opinion and voice matter?

I am planning to vote for Kerry and would still in the hypothetical on the basis that President Bush wants to Constitutionally prohibit me from marrying my girlfriend.

Well duh... We all know that in a hypothetical situation where foreign policy isn't an issue, no one in their right (pun intended) mind would vote for Bush. He isn't even a Republican. He's a conservative-fascist.
(Not knocking Republicans: I would vote for McCain over Kerry.)

And quit flaunting your sexuality. It's not my fault I'm not bi!

They both want to keep bloating the size of the government and take my money.

I'm voting Libertarian.

So close. But clearly you mean the War on Terra - otherwise known as the Who's Next Game. :rolleyes:


nonononono thats too confusing. Last time we had that I thought someone was trying to declare war on Terra Matsu :(