NationStates Jolt Archive

I read Andreas Eschbach's novel "one trillion dollars" where there is one scene where the main character John Fontanelli gives up his american citizenship and becomes italian citizen to avoid inheritance tax. In that situation, it was absolllutely comprehensible why he did it, because "hundred billion dollars are a too high price for patriotism".

Well, I wondered what would have to happen for YOU to give up your citizenship. I am frighteningly non-patriotic myself, I do not feel linked to the nation, I live in. However, I can not imagine being citizen of an undemocratic country (except maybe north korea, but that is another topic). That also means, that if the german democracy would be overtthrown/ abolished/ limitated by much I would lose all patriotism I have.

Quite simply, there'd have to be another country better to live in than america. Even with all of the stupid programs that i disagree with like welfare, affirmative action, and social security, we're still better off than the rest of the world. America would have to fall before I'd be willing to live anywhere else as a citizen there.

I would pay the tax.
If you have that much money you wouldnt notice a 100billion.
second, I would then move anyway.
To beautiful Ireland.
Bye Bye America.

You can get your citizenship back by simply saying "I changed my mind", so yeah I'd give up citizenship to avoid inheritance tax.

I'd give up citizenship simply because there are a lot of better countries out there that I'd rather live in. Canada may kick all kinds of ass, but most of Europe is better.

Quite simply, there'd have to be another country better to live in than america. Even with all of the stupid programs that i disagree with like welfare, affirmative action, and social security, we're still better off than the rest of the world. America would have to fall before I'd be willing to live anywhere else as a citizen there.

What do you mean by 'better than the rest of the world'?

American Citizenship is nothing special to me.

I might enjoy living in Europe, although learning a new language would be a pain in the ass.

American Citizenship is nothing special to me.

I might enjoy living in Europe, although learning a new language would be a pain in the ass.
So what about the United Kingdom or Ireland?

If i had the choice i would already have left America, I hate it here.

What do you mean by 'better than the rest of the world'?

Better than the rest of the world, as in sure we do stupid things here, but by god we do a lot of amazing things too. If we didn't, america wouldn't be so popular would we?

Better than the rest of the world, as in we've got the best military hands down.

Better than the rest of the world, as in I can do just about anything I want. I don't want to do most things that are considered illegal here (though I would love dearly to kill a lot of Maryland Drivers and other stupid people), so when you look at what I want to do, I can usually do it. On top of that, look at all we take for granted here; government grants for going to school, starting a business, or even scientific research. Lots of countries in the world don't allow that sort of stuff to just anyone.

Better than the rest of the world, as in Mountain Dew is made here. If any thing else doesn't work, this should sway everyone :P

Granted, if I were in charge, I'd change a lot of things (though they're mostly little stupid things), but I'd have to change a lot less things than if I was given some other country to rule.

There are a lot of other countries in the world that have all of that, and then some... Wouldn't that make them better?

It still cannot convince me, maybe bnecause of being so less patriotic myself:

Better than the rest of the world, as in sure we do stupid things here, but by god we do a lot of amazing things too. If we didn't, america wouldn't be so popular would we?

ok, but america is both loved and hated.


Better than the rest of the world, as in I can do just about anything I want. I don't want to do most things that are considered illegal here (though I would love dearly to kill a lot of Maryland Drivers and other stupid people), so when you look at what I want to do, I can usually do it. On top of that, look at all we take for granted here; government grants for going to school, starting a business, or even scientific research. Lots of countries in the world don't allow that sort of stuff to just anyone.
Like drinking alcohol as 16 year old, driving on the freeway with 160 km/h, voting in the municipal election as 16 year old or smoke in public?


Better than the rest of the world, as in Mountain Dew is made here. If any thing else doesn't work, this should sway everyone :P
Not really, Topstar Cola rulez! (j/k) (no real argument to me)

So what about the United Kingdom or Ireland?

That could barely be called English. ;)

I love the American corrupted dialect.

[QUOTE=Rejistania]Like drinking alcohol as 16 year old, driving on the freeway with 160 km/h, voting in the municipal election as 16 year old or smoke in public?
QUOTE]

1- I could care less if a kid could drink, up until 20, i never cared for it, and even at 20, I could drink (not illegal if you don't get caught)

2- I speed all the time, I'd hate for it to be legal though, you've never seen maryland drivers.

3- Who votes anyways (j/k)

4- Smoking should be banned, it's smelly and I hate drivers who flick their butts and ashes out of their windows when they've got an ashtray inside their car.

I will give up my american citizenship the day britain or switzerland offer me theirs.

I cannot give up my citizenship, because I am not a citizen, but a subject of the crown.

I'd give that up in a second though.

Better than the rest of the world, as in sure we do stupid things here, but by god we do a lot of amazing things too. If we didn't, america wouldn't be so popular would we?
Yeah, real popular. :rolleyes:


Better than the rest of the world, as in we've got the best military hands down.

Wow, that is really something to brag about. What do you need all that military for except attacking nations that you shouldn't attack?


Better than the rest of the world, as in I can do just about anything I want. I don't want to do most things that are considered illegal here (though I would love dearly to kill a lot of Maryland Drivers and other stupid people), so when you look at what I want to do, I can usually do it. On top of that, look at all we take for granted here; government grants for going to school, starting a business, or even scientific research. Lots of countries in the world don't allow that sort of stuff to just anyone.

So? You can do that in pretty much everywere in Europe, but Europe isn't good because of that.

Still, it's a LOT better than the US.


Better than the rest of the world, as in Mountain Dew is made here. If any thing else doesn't work, this should sway everyone :P

Well, MD tastes good, but I wouldn't consider it too good.

1- I could care less if a kid could drink, up until 20, i never cared for it, and even at 20, I could drink (not illegal if you don't get caught)

To me this sounds pretty fishy. Even if you get caught, it is illegal, even though you won't get punished, you broke the law. Am I just strange to also follow laws, which I consider strange?


2- I speed all the time, I'd hate for it to be legal though, you've never seen maryland drivers.

I've seen drivers from Gladbach. And again, you say that you do an illegal thing but a few posts ago, you say that everything you want is legal


3- Who votes anyways (j/k)

Sad but true. Compulsory voting would be much better (no discussion about that please)


4- Smoking should be banned, it's smelly and I hate drivers who flick their butts and ashes out of their windows when they've got an ashtray inside their car.
Well, I also don't like the smell, but I think it is a freedom to do it, a freedom, which is very limited in the US.

(I forgot to post above that all four things are legal in Germany)

Well, sure, I can do most of the stuff in Europe that I can do here. Mostly, Europe and the US are on equal grounds (mostly) for freedoms.

But you can't argue with the fact that we are the world's only remaining superpower. There's got to be something behind that, it wasn't just pure random luck that allowed that.

Best military, even if you disagree with the war in Iraq (which I'm for, regardless of if there were/weren't WMD, but that's another thread, and one I wouldn't participate in).

I've got a lot of opportunities available here that wouldn't be available elsewhere. I seriously doubt my family would have the money it does if we'd have been anywhere else.

It's just better here, that's all. The american culture is in my opinion the best the world has to offer at the moment.

Well, sure, I can do most of the stuff in Europe that I can do here. Mostly, Europe and the US are on equal grounds (mostly) for freedoms.

But you can't argue with the fact that we are the world's only remaining superpower. There's got to be something behind that, it wasn't just pure random luck that allowed that.
The US is no superpower IMNSCO. Rome was a superpower because it was leading a great empire for centuries, but the US has no empire (Guam, American Samoa and so on are simply not as impressive as major parts of europe) and the US has its economical importance not for too long.

Best military, even if you disagree with the war in Iraq (which I'm for, regardless of if there were/weren't WMD, but that's another thread, and one I wouldn't participate in).
The q uestion was not if the war in Iraq was justified, but if it is justified to measure superiority in military terms.

I've got a lot of opportunities available here that wouldn't be available elsewhere. I seriously doubt my family would have the money it does if we'd have been anywhere else.
The land of the dollar, yeah.[/sarcasm]


It's just better here, that's all. The american culture is in my opinion the best the world has to offer at the moment.
Cultural superiority? How do you compare, what cultures did you live in? Don't you think that this is utterly rascist?

What's citizenship but a piece of paper?

One of my teachers is a foreigncitizen just to escape the draft.

I love my country and wouldn't leave it.

I live in Australia, the greatest nation on earth. I like you Yanks and Poms but Australia is the best place to be. As for people who dont love their countries, I think you need to take a look at yourselves and what you have got (unless your New Zealander then you should be ashamed) as I sure their are millions of people who dont have it.

Cultural superiority? How do you compare, what cultures did you live in? Don't you think that this is utterly rascist?

There is nothing racist whatsoever about thinking one's own culture is the best.

Driven by obvious bias yes, but not racist at all.

After all, American is not a race.

One of my teachers is a foreigncitizen just to escape the draft.

And you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?

Conscientious objectors have a way out, the rest are just cowards.

The US is no superpower IMNSCO. Rome was a superpower because it was leading a great empire for centuries, but the US has no empire (Guam, American Samoa and so on are simply not as impressive as major parts of europe) and the US has its economical importance not for too long.

Do you forget they own 1/4 of the world without needing a troop there? :p

6% of the population and 26% of its wealth (which is actually a reduction from 50 years ago).

The q uestion was not if the war in Iraq was justified, but if it is justified to measure superiority in military terms.

Military is an integral part of power, In the modern world it comes down to money and might, of which they dominate the landscape of both.

Well, I wondered what would have to happen for YOU to give up your citizenship.

I was tempted to say "If John Kerry is elected," but that would be untruthful. I would never pull a "Hollywood trick" like that.

I honestly don't think anything could induce me to give up my American citizenship. If by some strange twist of fate the US ever became something other than a Republic, my children ( at least my sons ) and I would most likely be dead, so even under those circumstances I would still die as an American citizen.

There is nothing racist whatsoever about thinking one's own culture is the best.

Driven by obvious bias yes, but not racist at all.

After all, American is not a race.

I am sorry, I found that term in the dictionary. What better term is there for this 'we are the best nation and we have the best culture and you are a POS' opinion? (yes, I exaggerated, I never said that you said it like this, Relegovia)


And you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?

Conscientious objectors have a way out, the rest are just cowards.

Why do you assume that, do you know where he is from? Or howe the rules for draft where there when his teacher was young?

Do you forget they own 1/4 of the world without needing a troop there? :p

6% of the population and 26% of its wealth (which is actually a reduction from 50 years ago).

This 'ownage' is made on assumptions, but these assumptions don't always have to be in effect (just imagine one of the sweatshop-countries nationalizes all foreign industries).


Military is an integral part of power, In the modern world it comes down to money and might, of which they dominate the landscape of both.
I could say that the period, in which the US dominates is not statisticaly significant... It might be random luck

What's citizenship but a piece of paper?

One of my teachers is a foreigncitizen just to escape the draft.

Well shit...that's genius. Don't let it get out, though, or they'll put some daft half-measure in (which will make no sense) against this kind of thing.

I like living in the UK, and I don't have any reason to be a citizen of anywhere else. I'm hoping to move to Ireland eventually and while I expect my kids will get Irish citizenship, I don't see any reason for me to change mine.

I'd probably change it for 10 grand if i could pick what I changed it to. Any EU citizenship other than UK wouldn't make any difference to my life.

I am sorry, I found that term in the dictionary. What better term is there for this 'we are the best nation and we have the best culture and you are a POS' opinion? (yes, I exaggerated, I never said that you said it like this, Relegovia)

Nationalism is probably the best term, can be applied to both nation and culture.

just imagine one of the sweatshop-countries nationalizes all foreign industries

Honestly? First they will sanction, and if that doesn't work, then a reason for invasion is found and the rest of the major powers look the other way because the example being made is in their mutual best interest. Just ask Panama.

Why do you assume that, do you know where he is from? Or howe the rules for draft where there when his teacher was young?

For not doing your responsibility, and turning tail but yet still living in a nation and benefitting from the sacrifices of others is cowardly.

Really, really brings home to me the problem of today: everyone wants their rights, but few want to do their duty.

(This will be an American-oriented post, as that's what I am.)

I see enough of you that've posted whom would give up your US citizenship fairly quickly.

Have you ever lived in another nation? Do you read international news?

I've been to fourteen countries, four of them before and after the wall came down and they went from Communist to Democratic. Sure, the standards of living in the UK and Belgium (and most of western europe) are similar to here. But being a citizen there isn't a walk in the park, either. Life is as life is, and I don't believe that anywhere has a definite advantage over the US.

Sure, it's great to say what you want. Do what you want. Pray how you want. Enjoy everything the US has to offer. IMHO, you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

But do you vote? Do you try to get out of jury duty? Are you a consiencious objector on your draft card? Do you cheat on your taxes?

I'm not saying that the Republicans nor the Democrats are right. That doesn't even matter. What matters is having a society in which the citizens stand for their nation and do what they are called on to do. If you consider the Bill of Rights, you get an awful lot more than you are expected to put back in.

...and that's me, getting off the soapbox.

I love my country and wouldn't leave it.

I live in Australia, the greatest nation on earth. I like you Yanks and Poms but Australia is the best place to be. As for people who dont love their countries, I think you need to take a look at yourselves and what you have got (unless your New Zealander then you should be ashamed) as I sure their are millions of people who dont have it.

Teehee! Yes, and we just (ahaha) voted HOWARD (hee!) back in (hahaha!)

GREATEST NATION EVER!

God, this would be less pathetic if I was actually drunk. And I should be. Three more years of Howard. Can anyone lend me a cyanide pill? I promise I'll leave you some money to cover the cost in my will... no? Ah well, I'll just have to wait a few years to drown in my HECs fees (funfun!)

*wanders off to get those chocolates that have alcoholic fillings*

Really, really brings home to me the problem of today: everyone wants their rights, but few want to do their duty.

(This will be an American-oriented post, as that's what I am.)

I see enough of you that've posted whom would give up your US citizenship fairly quickly.

Have you ever lived in another nation? Do you read international news?

I've been to fourteen countries, four of them before and after the wall came down and they went from Communist to Democratic. Sure, the standards of living in the UK and Belgium (and most of western europe) are similar to here. But being a citizen there isn't a walk in the park, either. Life is as life is, and I don't believe that anywhere has a definite advantage over the US.

Sure, it's great to say what you want. Do what you want. Pray how you want. Enjoy everything the US has to offer. IMHO, you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

But do you vote? Do you try to get out of jury duty? Are you a consiencious objector on your draft card? Do you cheat on your taxes?

I'm not saying that the Republicans nor the Democrats are right. That doesn't even matter. What matters is having a society in which the citizens stand for their nation and do what they are called on to do. If you consider the Bill of Rights, you get an awful lot more than you are expected to put back in.

...and that's me, getting off the soapbox.

As thread-starter:
My original intent was not to try to evade any national duties. I just think that I could live in Austria or Switzerland or Italy as citizen without any moral problems, I could imagine to fulfill my duties as much as I do here (I would never join the military anywhere, but my pacifism is another matter).


Teehee! Yes, and we just (ahaha) voted HOWARD (hee!) back in (hahaha!)

GREATEST NATION EVER!

God, this would be less pathetic if I was actually drunk. And I should be. Three more years of Howard. Can anyone lend me a cyanide pill? I promise I'll leave you some money to cover the cost in my will... no? Ah well, I'll just have to wait a few years to drown in my HECs fees (funfun!)

*wanders off to get those chocolates that have alcoholic fillings*


At least you can vote against Howard to get rid of him. There are enough countries where there is no democracy.

I'm seriously considering moving to Canada. If I planned on staying there, I would probably switch my citizenship just for the benefits. I've never really considered myself a 'citizen' of anywhere, just a normal guy who lives some place on this big ball of rock. I guess that goes some way to showing how much interest I have in the whole concept of citizenships.

I don't think money would be enough of a reason for me to give up citizenship in the U.S. However, four more years of Dubya just might.

I can't imagine renouncing my citizenship, and certainly not over anything as silly as a tax bill. I could see a situation where I felt I had to become an expatriate, but I'd still hold onto my citizenship, even if the reason I left was that my government had become so repressive that I felt I had to. I'd just keep working to return it to the principles on which it was founded.

I don't think money would be enough of a reason for me to give up citizenship in the U.S. However, four more years of Dubya just might.

Please take Alec Baldwin and *go*.
(I find these "If he's elected..." things to be so silly.)

[QUOTE=Rejistania]As thread-starter:
My original intent was not to try to evade any national duties. I just think that I could live in Austria or Switzerland or Italy as citizen without any moral problems, I could imagine to fulfill my duties as much as I do here (I would never join the military anywhere, but my pacifism is another matter).
QUOTE]

That's fine. I was speaking of the multitude that has states thusly on the thread. I don't have any problem with the question, I have problems with the *reasons* that most people have given so far.

Austria? Are you sure? Of all the Euro countries, that's one with the most angst, IMHO. If you look at Austrian politics, you have deep left/right divisions, coupled with a past tinged with Nazism and Soviet Occupation.

Now, I could understand Switzerland, or Holland, or even Sweden... but Austria?

I don't have to! Yeeah, you don't pay inheritance tax here in Canada, which strangely has a higher tax rate than the US. Nor do you pay tax on lottery winnings. So, ;) I don't have to avoid inheritance tax, I can stay right here!

I don't think I'd renounce my Canadian citizenship unless they started forcing me to do things against my religion.

Please take Alec Baldwin and *go*.
(I find these "If he's elected..." things to be so silly.)

Ditto.

Austria? Are you sure? Of all the Euro countries, that's one with the most angst, IMHO. If you look at Austrian politics, you have deep left/right divisions, coupled with a past tinged with Nazism and Soviet Occupation.
Now, I could understand Switzerland, or Holland, or even Sweden... but Austria?
Austria has not a good reputation. But if you are from Germany you can life with that. Especially for language reasons that is the easiest alternative.
Though Switzerland is much more preferable - or Lichtenstein.
I personally could imagine to move to Iceland. I was there once. Though then you have to cope with long winters and a long dark period. On the other hand you have a long period of light. Quite a fascinating country in respect of its nature.
I also liked Ireland. Probably even a better choice.
I don´t know Sweden but it is a very stable country over the last several hundred years. In that respect it can compete with Switzerland. But Sweden has to high taxes. So I would rather go for Switzerland.

i think i might give it up.. its only a damn passport and papers.. my home is never going to go away nor is my family and country- patriot or not

i think i might give it up.. its only a damn passport and papers.. my home is never going to go away nor is my family and country- patriot or not
The question is also: give it up for what other citizenship and for what reasons.
I currently don´t see a reason to give up my citizenship.
But there are circumstances I could imagine to give it up.

As an American living in Texas... I would give up my citizenship to live elsewhere, if I found somewhere I liked. There's all sorts of reasons I don't particularly care to be here for. Not something as petty as taxes, mind you.

I suppose I'd drop my citizenship if I found somewhere I'd like to live better (and I wanted to vote there too). Then again, if I lose citizenship I don't know if they still have to give me public-funded healthcare.. Aw, screw it. I'm never leaving. I've only ever been outside once, and that's to New York, which really isn't that different from where I live, 'cept there's more people. Nothing to go through some sort of bureaucratic hassle for.

Well, sure, I can do most of the stuff in Europe that I can do here. Mostly, Europe and the US are on equal grounds (mostly) for freedoms.
But you can't argue with the fact that we are the world's only remaining superpower. There's got to be something behind that, it wasn't just pure random luck that allowed that.
Not random luck. But certainly resources and size do matter. And the US is after all the fourth largest country of the world. And a good use of this resources - better than the Soviets (who screwed it) and so far the Chinese.
But from a historic perspective I can´t see that as an argument. The statement that might makes someone right is a dangerous concept. It was applied all over human history and created lots of disasters.
The question rather is for what that power is used for.
Being the only remaining super power - way beyond the other four great powers Russia, China, Britain and France doesn´t make the US popular. Powerful countries are not popular, they are envied. Sometimes even hated. But also respected.
If I pretend not to have a nationality I wouldn´t chose America. I wouldn´t chose my real-word nationality (German) either. I would probably go for Switzerland, Ireland or (even) Sweden. That are good places to life. Other places are actually great. But I wouldn´t like to life in China or Russia. South Africa is great but a difficult country. And the United States is a great country with many very, very friendly people but also with some negative tendencies. I see tendencies of to much involvement of religion and religious believes into politics for example. I think that America has reached its peak now. How long that last I don´t know. What I know however that all countries who have reached a peak lost it some day. Even the Romans did. And being a country in that position is a very difficult position since it gives a great burden on that country. So, I would rather chose a small and stable which has good relations with all its neighbours (or has no near neighbours like Iceland) over a big country.

Like drinking alcohol as 16 year old, driving on the freeway with 160 km/h, voting in the municipal election as 16 year old or smoke in public?
And? The municipal election thing is just the case in some german states. Others have changed that back to 18. And they are right in my view. People ought to learn something about politics at school before they are allowed to vote. 16 is to early in my view.
And we may be able to drive fast at the freeway but only if there is no traffic sign which gives a restriction.
Aside of the many tempo 30 km/h areas in cities. A short while a go I got a ticket for "speeding" becaus I allegedly drove 36 km/h instead of 30 km/h.
This f.. local government just wants to steal money from its citizens via such speed controls. Ticketing for 6 km/h!!! Well, that is the way we are ruled by the "state robbers".

Cultural superiority? How do you compare, what cultures did you live in? Don't you think that this is utterly rascist?

"Racist?" Ahhh, the ultimate liberal insult! Tsk! No, it's "culture-centric." I've lived in Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, Mexico, etc., and I still much prefer the US. In all fairness, that may simply be due to having been born and raised here, but I'm still here by choice.

I cannot give up my citizenship, because I am not a citizen, but a subject of the crown.
I'd give that up in a second though.
Why are your always bashing your countries political system? Britain was the first parlamentarian democracy.
If I could chose a national history I would prefer the British one above the one of my country. And the monarchy is an important part of it. So if I could change history I would change it with you. So you could have a president and I could have a monarch.

Why are your always bashing your countries political system? Britain was the first parlamentarian democracy.
If I could chose a national history I would prefer the British one above the one of my country. And the monarchy is an important part of it. So if I could change history I would change it with you. So you could have a president and I could have a monarch.
Please emigrate someplace far, far away as soon as you can.

Please emigrate someplace far, far away as soon as you can.
No, I won´t. Those times are fortunately over in our countries history. For the western half since 1945, for the eastern half since 1989/90. So, I´m satisfied with the current situation.
That can however not be said for the period 1933-45 and for East Germany for the period 1933-89. Fortunately that is history now.

No, I won´t.
But just think of the opportunity. You could go to America and live there. Then you wouldn't have to use the internet anymore to lick their behinds. You could do it for real. Every day of the week. I can tell your starting to rethink you previouse statement. Good boy.

I don't think I'd renounce my Canadian citizenship unless they started forcing me to do things against my religion.
I completely agree with you.

But just think of the opportunity. ...
Fuck off and read what I´ve written on the last page.
I´m for the alliance with the US. It is better that the US leads the world than Russia or China. But I´m not happy about all things. Nobody is perfect after all.

Fuck off and read what I´ve written on the last page.
I´m for the alliance with the US. It is better that the US leads the world than Russia or China. But I´m not happy about all things. Nobody is perfect after all.
Sure, lead us on a one-way highway to hell.

Sure, lead us on a one-way highway to hell.
The US has saved Europe from its two biggest threads: Nazi-Germany and Soviet Russia. A bit more confidence should be given to them.

The US has saved Europe from its two biggest threads: Nazi-Germany and Soviet Russia. A bit more confidence should be given to them.
No because they're the annoying loud-mouth neighbour who ruins the party by acting like a drunken fool.

The US has saved Europe from its two biggest threads: Nazi-Germany and Soviet Russia. A bit more confidence should be given to them.
Sorry, Soviet Russia did the most fighting against Hitlers Germany, the American part of the war has been GREATLY over-appreciated. Sure, they were there for D-Day, and such, but the fact is that the biggest battles were fought on the eastern front. :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

And the US didn't "save Europe" from Soviet Russia, but kept them busy by forcing them to concentrate on themself. Even though the Soviets has low-interest in Europe after the 1950's.


Anyway, I could see myself giving up my citizenship, although I find I have it great here. Free schooling up to university levels, free healthcare, no NRA(bunch of weirdos) and I don't have to fear for terrorist attacks because of actions my president has taken. But I do plan on moving to the US for reaping my rewards, and then moving back to live the easy life.
But yes, I could do it, but maybe just for a while, and only if I could choose my new citizenship or if it was a good one.

Why are your always bashing your countries political system? Britain was the first parlamentarian democracy.
If I could chose a national history I would prefer the British one above the one of my country. And the monarchy is an important part of it. So if I could change history I would change it with you. So you could have a president and I could have a monarch.
Move to the US. There you can lick Georgiesboys ass all day.

What it would take for me to give up my (American) citizenship.

My wife to concede and let us move to FNQ, Australia.

Global warming to get to the point where Canada is sub-tropical.

See either above vis-a-vis Norway or New Zealand.

I see enough of you that've posted whom would give up your US citizenship fairly quickly.
I agree with Bretonia on this. Citizenship really doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I'm just a guy living on this planet, and the lines people draw on the map are arbitrary. If I find some really compelling reason to leave the country behind, I will. Otherwise, it's just not worth the hassle.

Have you ever lived in another nation? Do you read international news?
Unfortunately no, and yes, respectively.

I've been to fourteen countries, four of them before and after the wall came down and they went from Communist to Democratic. Sure, the standards of living in the UK and Belgium (and most of western europe) are similar to here. But being a citizen there isn't a walk in the park, either. Life is as life is, and I don't believe that anywhere has a definite advantage over the US.
What little of the rest of the world I've been able to see (would be more, but I lack money) supports this.

Sure, it's great to say what you want. Do what you want. Pray how you want. Enjoy everything the US has to offer. IMHO, you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

But do you vote? Do you try to get out of jury duty? Are you a consiencious objector on your draft card? Do you cheat on your taxes?
Here's the bit that made me quote this post. Putting CO status in the same category as cheating on taxes and trying to get out of jury duty is rather ludicrous. CO status doesn't just mean "coward" or "trying to get out of duty." It's perfect for people such as myself, for whom the idea of pointing a gun at another human being and firing is just sickening. I simply won't do it. Were there, for example, a draft, and somehow my CO status was denied, and they tried to put me on the front lines, of course I would get out of it. I don't consider it my duty to act in ways that are not only outside my capacity, but contradictory to my morality.
As for the other questions, I vote, should I ever be called on for jury duty I would perform that to the best of my ability, and I've never even considered cheating on taxes.

Austria has not a good reputation. But if you are from Germany you can life with that. Especially for language reasons that is the easiest alternative.
Though Switzerland is much more preferable - or Lichtenstein.
I personally could imagine to move to Iceland. I was there once. Though then you have to cope with long winters and a long dark period. On the other hand you have a long period of light. Quite a fascinating country in respect of its nature.
I also liked Ireland. Probably even a better choice.
I don´t know Sweden but it is a very stable country over the last several hundred years. In that respect it can compete with Switzerland. But Sweden has to high taxes. So I would rather go for Switzerland.

Yeah, but to live in Lichtenstein, you have to be INVITED! I don't make that kind of scratch, and my "von" would be tenuous at best -- a scion of a scion of a dead Hungarian Lord who bought it on the eastern front in 1915...

Iceland? I had a friend who's sister had to be put in isolation then flown back to England (where she is from). The winter dark just got to her.

Ireland's nice, barring those little troubles they have in the north.

I'm happy to stay in the USA, but that's just me. :)

Here's the bit that made me quote this post. Putting CO status in the same category as cheating on taxes and trying to get out of jury duty is rather ludicrous. CO status doesn't just mean "coward" or "trying to get out of duty." It's perfect for people such as myself, for whom the idea of pointing a gun at another human being and firing is just sickening. I simply won't do it. Were there, for example, a draft, and somehow my CO status was denied, and they tried to put me on the front lines, of course I would get out of it. I don't consider it my duty to act in ways that are not only outside my capacity, but contradictory to my morality.
As for the other questions, I vote, should I ever be called on for jury duty I would perform that to the best of my ability, and I've never even considered cheating on taxes.

It does to me. CO status is a joke. You're getting the privledge of living in our nation without putting your ass on the line. Listen, I don't like the idea of shooting someone, either.
But if we're in a shooting war and I end up being involved, I'm going to do what I need to do to not only stay alive, not only keep my buddies alive, but to make sure my side wins. Personally, I'd love it if there were never another war fought.
As for the rest, I am impressed with your other answers, but I think we're bound to disagree on this point. C'est la vie. :)

[QUOTE=Maghatan]Sorry, Soviet Russia did the most fighting against Hitlers Germany, the American part of the war has been GREATLY over-appreciated. Sure, they were there for D-Day, and such, but the fact is that the biggest battles were fought on the eastern front. :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

And the US didn't "save Europe" from Soviet Russia, but kept them busy by forcing them to concentrate on themself. Even though the Soviets has low-interest in Europe after the 1950's.
QUOTE]

I believe that Kyber was talking about the US supplying and aiding England so they'd not be taken over, not to diminish Soviet accomplishments.

Actually, I'd say that NATO and NORAD, along with the Berlin Airlift saved Western Europe from Soviet occupation in the post WW2 years. Nothing else would have stopped them.

I can't stand American culture. It's far too repressive for me. Almost anything sexual is a sin and capitalism is considered a sacred cow.

I can't stand American culture. It's far too repressive for me. Almost anything sexual is a sin and capitalism is considered a sacred cow.

If you find American culture repressive, you should have been around to try Communist Poland, circa 1981.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kybernetia
Why are your always bashing your countries political system? Britain was the first parlamentarian democracy.
If I could chose a national history I would prefer the British one above the one of my country. And the monarchy is an important part of it. So if I could change history I would change it with you. So you could have a president and I could have a monarch.


Move to the US. There you can lick Georgiesboys ass all day.

What exactly is your reasoning here? Kybernetia says he would prefer British history to German history, and your response is to suggest moving to the United States... I must be missing something here. Try a more relevant quotation, perhaps? Or maybe you could read everything that Kybernetia has posted, like the two or three posts stating rather clearly he/she doesn't want to move to the US and the one stating he would prefer Sweden or some such country. Forgive me, but I have thus far failed to see some sort of "ass licking" of the US in any of the posts I've looked at from him, and the post you're refering to has nothing to do with the United States at all, hell, most of Britain's history precedes the United States so where are you going with this nonsense?

If you find American culture repressive, you should have been around to try Communist Poland, circa 1981.
Aye, I imagine that'd be worse, but it doesn't change what American culture is like. I find North American culture give people a great degree of freedom, but if you put me into an Anarchist commune, with no laws whatsoever, that would give me many more freedoms. That doesn't change the fact that I'm free where I am, now does it? If you're trying to make a compelling argument for how free and democratic the United States is, there are more convincing ways, I'd imagine.

Well, I wondered what would have to happen for YOU to give up your citizenship.
If my home country did something *so* haneous, absolutely NOTHING could make up for it.

Aye, I imagine that'd be worse, but it doesn't change what American culture is like. I find North American culture give people a great degree of freedom, but if you put me into an Anarchist commune, with no laws whatsoever, that would give me many more freedoms. That doesn't change the fact that I'm free where I am, now does it? If you're trying to make a compelling argument for how free and democratic the United States is, there are more convincing ways, I'd imagine.

But can you show me any Anarchist commune which has lasted longer than say... 5 years? How about 10? :)

True, there are better arguements, I was just pointing out that things can be much, much worse.

But can you show me any Anarchist commune which has lasted longer than say... 5 years? How about 10?

Well, actually, a few have lasted for as much as 40 years.

True, there are better arguements, I was just pointing out that things can be much, much worse.

So that makes American repression acceptable?

Well, actually, a few have lasted for as much as 40 years.



So that makes American repression acceptable?

Please name them, I wasn't aware of anything Anarchist that survived longer than a year or two.

Repression... of what?

If Bush is re-elected, bye bye USA, hello Phillipines. I have a friend who moved to Japan when Bush was elected in 2000. Me of course reasoning that America can't be stupid enough to vote in the same idiot after what hes done to this country. But I am getting my passaport updated. (I've been to the Phillipines before, beautiful country)

If Bush is re-elected, bye bye USA, hello Phillipines. I have a friend who moved to Japan when Bush was elected in 2000. Me of course reasoning that America can't be stupid enough to vote in the same idiot after what hes done to this country. But I am getting my passaport updated. (I've been to the Phillipines before, beautiful country)

Please go, then, and take Alec Baldwin with you.
(This whole thing of if X gets elected I'm leaving is *soooo* silly.)

If Bush is re-elected, bye bye USA, hello Phillipines. I have a friend who moved to Japan when Bush was elected in 2000. Me of course reasoning that America can't be stupid enough to vote in the same idiot after what hes done to this country. But I am getting my passaport updated. (I've been to the Phillipines before, beautiful country)

I thought Japan was teh xenophobic and didn't like people moving in.

to answer the question yes and I donate most of the rest of my money to an aides foundation there shouldn't be a price tag for a human life they are far to prescious to waste I'd live like a multi-millonare thats it I don't want more and have no intention on trying

No. Never.

Why are your always bashing your countries political system?
Because I'm not a particular fan of it.

Although there is one part of I like, freedom of speech

i would gladly trade my u.s. citizenship for that in a country that actualy practices closer to what i belive in.

unfortunately i have no way of really knowing if, on the face of mundane earth there really is such a place.

i suspect canada might be and might actualy welcome me or at least not kick me out. i've just heard about the reinstated royal government of hawaii but i'm not so sure i could be happy living that close to the tropics. i prefer a much cooler climate.

most of western europe seems to have its act much more togather then the u.s. currently, but there are some signs this may have in recent years become slightly less so.

if and when indigenous soverignty is reinstituted everywhere and i am allowed to live someplace with trees and mountains and lots of trains and a culture that doesn't romantacize and reward the more gratuitous sorts of aggressiveness or prioritize the pseudo-freedom to indenture yourself to mass consumption ahead of real freedom from stress and mundaneness; and far from least, a country who'se policies recognize and are based upon the dependence of all life on nature's cycles of renewal and healthy diversity. ok i'm not asking much. ">grin<"

i think chainging your citizenship to avoid paying your fair share of what your way of life costs the land and the people of the country you live in is utterly and thoroughly assinign though.

i don't want to chainge my citizenship to cheat. i want to chainge my citizenship to live the way i believe in!

=^^=
.../\...

Well,considering I'm moving to Canada to live with my girlfriend, and plan to become a citizen there..Yeah.