NationStates Jolt Archive

disclaimer:
so, this is just a random tired rant, and it's about Canada. Why? Because I am random and tired!

random tired rant:
Wouldn't it be funny if Quebec actually got around to seceding from Canada and they had a civil war. i think that would be freaking awesome. In several ways.

I assume you mean if Quebec seperates and then there's a civil war in Quebec? Or do you mean that the instability caused by Quebec's seperation causes provinces to begin demanding more decentralized policies leading to a Canadian civil war?
Obviously you don't mean that Quebec might engage in a war with the rest of what is now Canada, right? Because if Quebec seperated, and then started a war against Canada, that wouldn't be a civil war, because Quebec would be a seperate nation by then. It would just be a war.... so, you wanna specify?

tppt, Quebec sucks up billions in equalization payments just to stay afloat. I don't think they're gonna go anywhere lol.

There will never be a Canadian civil war...we're way to peaceful and laid back for that lol

Lol - Quebec won't separate anytime soon, I'm pretty sure of it.

There will never be a Canadian civil war...we're way to peaceful and laid back for that lol

That's why the words "wouldn't it be funny if..." were included in the original question.

I assume you mean if Quebec seperates and then there's a civil war in Quebec? Or do you mean that the instability caused by Quebec's seperation causes provinces to begin demanding more decentralized policies leading to a Canadian civil war?
Obviously you don't mean that Quebec might engage in a war with the rest of what is now Canada, right? Because if Quebec seperated, and then started a war against Canada, that wouldn't be a civil war, because Quebec would be a seperate nation by then. It would just be a war.... so, you wanna specify?
I'll take any of these options, if anyone wants to ramble about anything s/he brings up, do so, because then we can have much chaos.

if canada had a civil war it would be the most pathetic war in the history of civilization. it would be a bunch of french guys running around screamin, canada is not a war country. :sniper: :mp5:

Actually a civil war due to separation isn’t as far fetched as you might think. Though the Bloc Quebequis have been cozying up to native reps do you think the natives actually want to separate or merely want the PQ’s money. Should it come down to the nitty gritty and Quebec begins to leave the more,… restless, of the Quebec natives will be up in arms, either to get back into Canada or to form their own nations.

Before you dismiss this out of hand think about the Mohawks near Montréal and the land that their reserve falls on. What’s worse about this is that the RCMP and the military would be gone, leaving an under funded QPP to deal with what could potentially be an armed rebellion.

As for not taking the Quebec separation threat seriously, the feds do. The last referendum saw the ‘temporary’ relocation of the F-18 squad in Quebec to western Canada. Officially it was for training reasons, unofficially, they made sure the military’s projection power wasn’t going to be halved.

hey hey hey... that doesnt work... i live in Quebec..and they wouldnt split from canada... why? quebec needs canada...

besides... if they split, well... yeah, there might be a war and well.. what's the point? they would be like.... :headbang: get it?

it's just something for the quebecers to bitch about.

i somehow doubt it'll actually happen and if it does, i'm sure that they'll be back within a year.
i mean, they want to keep the canadian dollar as the currency should they leave.

Every province just wants the best deal they can get. For whatever reason (cough french english conflict cough) Quebec looks at the deal and thinks "Can I get a better one here or elsewhere." The other provinces have a loyalty to the feds Quebec doesn't seem to.

Even the liberals in Quebce are federal nationalists. (As apposed to the PQ being nationalists)

I like how Bloc Quebecois are simply referred to as "The Bloc" by some.

That is all.

it's just something for the quebecers to bitch about.

i somehow doubt it'll actually happen and if it does, i'm sure that they'll be back within a year.
i mean, they want to keep the canadian dollar as the currency should they leave.The Canadian Dollar? LOL thats pathetic...
why not the American Dollar?

if they split, well... yeah, there might be a war.. ....get it?No I dont get it.
If there is a split...why should there be a war?
Civil wars only happen when referendums are not respected...
I mean why should Slovakians attack the Chekzs?

well i think it would kill there ecoomy if quebec did secede because look at what happened when they made there official languiage (sorry if i spelled that wrong it's) french the big companies left.

well i think it would kill there ecoomy if quebec did secede because look at what happened when they made there official languiage (sorry if i spelled that wrong it's) french the big companies left.they left?
and where did they go?

There are two reasons that I would like to see Quebec secede from Canada:

1) It would be funny to see Quebec taken down a peg or two when they realize that their economy cannot stand on its own two feet without the rest of Canada babysitting it.

2) More importantly, it might open up the way for secessions that would be far more successful. If BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan banded together, being sick of having virtually no say over the actions of the Federal government, which panders to Ontario and Quebec, not only would the rest of Canada be screwed with so much of its resources gone, but BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan would make an extremely wealthy nation once their resources ceased to be exploited by the East for its own economic gain.

Firstly, I really and truly doubt we will ever see Quebec succession. Secondly, I live in Manitoba, at least nominally a Western province, and detest the notion of Western independence. I'm not a Manitoba, or a Westerner, but a Canadian.

A bit more about Quebec, I wouldn't necessarily interpret the Bloc vote in the recent election as a sign of increased seperatist fervour. The Quebec polity is really a two-party system, and the Bloc is a popular beating stick for the Liberals.

About the exploitation thing, there's probably an element of truth to that, but I think it's a bit of a hasty judgement. And one that will correct itself in the long term anyway, as the Western provinces are the most rapidly growing in population anyway. All large countries have certain regional issues. Including the US.

Finally, Canada is a viable nation-state and should remain as is entirely. The moment our federal union breaks up, we'll become even MORE economically dependent upon the United States. Our sovereignity, or rather, what's left of it, really is dependent upon Canada's territorial integrity.

.... Alberta and Saskatchewan would make an extremely wealthy nation once their resources ceased to be exploited by the East for its own economic gain.I say Alberta does not want their resources to be exploited by Saskatchewan for its own economic gain.

*snickers at funny thought*

Canada falls completely apart and becomes a jumble of independent bickering nations, kinda like the Balkans, only without genocide.

*even more amusing thought*

Becomes just like Balkans, with genocide -Saskatchewan(ese?) controlled death camps-

remember, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just haven't slept for nearly 40 hours, so almost anything is funny.

Becomes just like Balkans, with genocide -Saskatchewan(ese?) controlled death camps-...funny.like with Sasks Putting all the Albertans in the camps ..and taking controll of all the oil. :confused:

Saskatchewan declares war on Alberta. Puts Albertans in death camps. International reaction hostile. US invades Saskatchewan, along with Britain and the unforgetable Poles.

Majority of the Major Companies in PQ (Province du Quebec) moved to Ontario, that's why I live out near Toronto now. Used to live near Montreal, but a job transfer was offered after the '95 Referendum.

As well, the official language of PQ is English, and it's the Bill 101 Language law that forced everything to be in French first, then English. French is actually not an 'official' language of PQ. New Brunswick is the ONLY Province in all of Canada to have French as an official language.

As for Quebec separating, reminds of a couple of Quebecer jokes.



What do you call a constipated Frenchman? A Bloc Quebecois. :rolleyes:

And if Quebec separated, they may as well just use Canadian Tire money. :D

....Used to live near Montreal, but a job transfer was offered after the '95 Referendum.

As well, the official language of PQ is English, and it's the Bill 101 Language law that forced everything to be in French first, then English. French is actually not an 'official' language of PQ. New Brunswick is the ONLY Province in all of Canada to have French as an official language.You say you used to live near montreal...and my Bro lives in Montreal...and he says that you are full of it (wrong info, diconneted from reality, etc :D )

DISCLAIMER: I have family in Quebec, and I've been there. Nice province, but, I can't say I like the people... Also, this isn't directed at ALL the pepsis, just the most of the trou de queue Quebecers.

They are a bunch of superficial assholes, who like to think they're French, but they're nothing but the ragtag remains of the Acadians and the Filles de Caskette. They don't even speak real French, they speak a pathetic version of it; Joule/Quebecois.

They pretend to hate the rest of Canada, whom they refer to as "English" Canada, but, in reality, they don't have the balls to leave. The newest generation is lazy. They also prefer to live off the federal handouts from the Liberals than to actually make their own province work.

Plus, if they separate, they will lose their sweet health deal from the Liberals.

Simply put, if Quebec suceded both would fall apart. Most likely the provinces would end up becoming states which would make it even harder for the Quebecois to keep their language rights.

They pretend to hate the rest of Canada, whom they refer to as "English" Canada, but, in reality, they don't have the balls to leave.I agree...maybe its the same for the Scotish...

Simply put, if Quebec suceded both would fall apart. Most likely the provinces would end up becoming states...Is that bad news?

Is that bad news?
Depends on your point of view I suppose.

If Canada Falls apart, can I have Nova Scotia?

Canadian civil war..!?

Heh he he he he.... :D

The only civil war that would actually BE civil..!

Each side would try to out-nice the other. No one would be killed,.. only overly-assisted into a stupor by the RCMP.

The RCMP itself would assume the role of it's own neutral third pary peacekeeping force, keeping the many provincial armies from annoying each other with gifts of food and beer across the battlefields.

A war like that could rage for generations....

..without anyone noticing.

Hmmmmmmm,... is THAT what you guys are doing up there..?

I'm from Ontario and I have absolutely no problem with Quebec. Quebec is a nice province and I would live there any day. The people were nice and everything. :)

Now, I would like to say that there has been a "kind of" civil war in Quebec. In the 1960's an armed group called the Front de Libération du Québec (FLQ) was formed to free Quebec. In 1963, they trained in Belgium and Jordan. Between 1963 to 1970, the FLQ committed over 200 political actions, including bombings, bank hold-ups and at least three deaths by FLQ bombs and two deaths by gunfire. In 1963, Gabriel Hudon and Raymond Villeneuve were sentenced to 12 years in prison for crimes against the state after their bomb killed Sgt. O'Neill, a watchman at Montreal's Canadian Army Recruitment Center. By 1970, twenty-three members of the FLQ were in jail, including four convicted murderers, and one member had been killed by his own bomb. Targets included English owned businesses, banks, McGill University, and the homes of prominent English speakers in the wealthy Westmount area of the city.

On October 5, 1970, the 'Liberation' cell of the FLQ kidnapped James Richard Cross, the British Trade Commissioner. On October 10, they kidnapped Quebec Vice-Premier and Minister of Labour Pierre Laporte. Laporte was killed a few days later on October 17.

The FLQ demanded that their 23 political prisoners be released, $500,000 in gold, broadcast and publication of the FLQ Manifesto, publication of the names of police informants, an aircraft to go to either Cuba or Algeria, and the stopage of all police searches.

In any case, Prime Minister Trudeau, who was from Quebec, declared martial law in Quebec on October 16. On December 3, the British trade commissioner is released and five people of the FLQ Liberation cell are allowed to go to Cuba.

Wouldn't it be funny if Quebec actually got around to seceding from Canada and they had a civil war. i think that would be freaking awesome. In several ways.No. Seperation, should it happen, will be messy enough without spilling vicera all over the place.

They don't even speak real French, they speak a pathetic version of it; Joule/Quebecois.If you want real French some of the smaller Acadian communities in Ontario are the way to go. They speak "real" French, just 200 year old real French. Not that I'd be able to tell; I completely failed to learn French in school.

:sniper: ya, i dont think the french canadians will be goin anywhere. there is no such thing as a brave frenchman. no offence. and plus they need the money from the government. but if they did leave i wouldnt have to learn their crap language.

:sniper: ya, i dont think the french canadians will be goin anywhere. there is no such thing as a brave frenchman. no offence. and plus they need the money from the government. but if they did leave i wouldnt have to learn their crap language.

You're funny.

Canadian civil war..!?

Heh he he he he.... :D

The only civil war that would actually BE civil..!

Each side would try to out-nice the other. No one would be killed,.. only overly-assisted into a stupor by the RCMP.

The RCMP itself would assume the role of it's own neutral third pary peacekeeping force, keeping the many provincial armies from annoying each other with gifts of food and beer across the battlefields.

A war like that could rage for generations....

..without anyone noticing.

Hmmmmmmm,... is THAT what you guys are doing up there..?
The myth of the "polite Canadian" kind of bothers me. Even worse is how some people actually believe it (this person is obviously joking, of course). Come on, now. Is your average Canadian really that much more polite, or more civil, than an American, German, Australian, or Indian? That's certainly not true of a great many Canadians I know, who are less than polite. I've met a couple pretty nice Americans, Brits, Australians, and at least one Sri Lankan.. none of whom were noticably more or less polite than the average Canadian. Where did this odd reputation come from? Anyone got a history on it? I have a feeling it dates back to the whole "Loyalist Myth" of Canada being so much more reasonable than the United States because its people didn't violently revolt against the English, and was reinforced by the nationalist stories about how caring Canada is (dating back to post WW2, when all of the social safety net programs exploded onto the scene.) but no matter the case, it strikes me as silly.

Canadian assimilation into the US bad news? I would say so. I like Canada the way it is, as a sovereign nation in its entirety. There are real differences in the way Canadians and Americans see the world and like have things. I don't consider myself anti-American, but I prefer the Canadian polity. Especially since we don't have George W. Bush as our head of state, although Paul Martin's nothing to get excited about.

About the 'real' French issue ... they have a dialect, because they've been seperated from France for 250 years. I wouldn't call it 'pathetic' or even necessarily inferior or superior to continental French, it's just different. Although it can sometimes make it hard for we Canadians who learn international French at school to adjust to the Quebecois dialect upon hearing it.

The myth of the "polite Canadian" kind of bothers me. Even worse is how some people actually believe it (this person is obviously joking, of course). Come on, now. Is your average Canadian really that much more polite, or more civil, than an American, German, Australian, or Indian? That's certainly not true of a great many Canadians I know, who are less than polite. I've met a couple pretty nice Americans, Brits, Australians, and at least one Sri Lankan.. none of whom were noticably more or less polite than the average Canadian. Where did this odd reputation come from? Anyone got a history on it? I have a feeling it dates back to the whole "Loyalist Myth" of Canada being so much more reasonable than the United States because its people didn't violently revolt against the English, and was reinforced by the nationalist stories about how caring Canada is (dating back to post WW2, when all of the social safety net programs exploded onto the scene.) but no matter the case, it strikes me as silly.

Well, I would like to disagree. Canadians are nicer and helpful. Of course, every nation has "bad" people, but Canadians, on the whole, are nicer.

Marxlan- A lot of it is empty stereotype, but like some stereotypes, it's not totally invented, but an exaggeration of a kernel of truth. Most Canadians have slightly different values than most Americans, and among other things, Canadians tend to be better compromisers and less confrontational. One could argue that stems at least in part to us being the junior half of North America, or to the fact that we latched onto stereotypically 'British' values perhaps more than the British themselves.

Well, I would like to disagree. Canadians are nicer and helpful. Of course, every nation has "bad" people, but Canadians, on the whole, are nicer.
Even if you're right, though I do disagree, one could only wonder how much of Canadian's behaviour is innate, and therefore justifies the stereotype, and how much is a result of the stereotype itself (ie: trying to act like the "ideal Canadian"). Nationalism's a funny thing, eh?

Even if you're right, though I do disagree, one could only wonder how much of Canadian's behaviour is innate, and therefore justifies the stereotype, and how much is a result of the stereotype itself (ie: trying to act like the "ideal Canadian"). Nationalism's a funny thing, eh?

Nationalism is not funny, it's evil! (Evil Canadian Commie here. :))

Now, I believe the difference in how people act in different countries is due to the economic policies in that country. The USA is a cutthroat society. If you don't do what it takes to advance, then you will never get anywhere. In Canada, it's not as bad as that, although it is somewhere between European Socialism and American capitalism.

What exactly do separatists want? Why do some people want to separate Quebec from Canada? I've heard about it, but I've never really known why.

Most of Canada is an English-speaking nation with close historical ties to Great Britain. Our head of state is Queen Elizabeth II. Many Canadians feel very strongly about this old ties, others do not. However, it is still a very real part of English Canadian culture.

However, Quebec is French speaking, and traces its origins to the settlement of what is now Quebec by France in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Almost all modern Franco-Canadians trace their origins from approximately 70,000 people that lived in New France when it was conquered by Britain, and ceded to Britain at the end of the Seven Year's War in 1763.

Many Quebecois feel that they cannot keep their unique culture and linguistic tradition inside a predominantly English-speaking country, despite Canada's official policy of bilingualism and multiculturalism. They worry about the erosion of Franco-Canadian culture and that they are really second-class Canadians.

Personally, I don't think this is the case. Quebec has a lot of political power, and I think Canada's treatment of the dual nationality issue has been for the most part, pretty good. But many people in Quebec do feel this way.

It's worth noting that in the past, the French Canadians were de facto second class citizens. A number of elements, including the ascendancy of a small English-speaking business class and a deeply conservative, agriculturally-based society (and a virtual state Catholic Church), most French-Canadians WERE in a worse position than English Canadians. The population of Quebec exploded in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, creating overcrowding on the agricultural land and poverty. It's worth noting that of the 7 million French Canadians in Quebec, almost all of them originated from 70,000 settlers in New France at the time of the Seven Year's War.

However, in the Sixties, this structure changed with the Quiet Revolution. This was about the same time that the modern seperatist movement continued to gain steam. Some dicey political decisions by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau (himself a Quebecer, as many of our Prime Ministers have been), accelerated the problem.

However, now it's mostly a cultural/linguistic issue, rather than a social and economic one, I would say. It's worth noting, actually, that in the middle of the 1992-1993 referendum, our Prime Minister was Jean Chretien, a Quebecer. Our current prime minister, Paul Martin, is also from Quebec, although I don't know if he is French.

Nationalism is not funny, it's evil! (Evil Canadian Commie here. :))

Now, I believe the difference in how people act in different countries is due to the economic policies in that country. The USA is a cutthroat society. If you don't do what it takes to advance, then you will never get anywhere. In Canada, it's not as bad as that, although it is somewhere between European Socialism and American capitalism.
Then you'd say that most Europeans would be more polite by that logic, right? I'm not saying that nationalism is a good thing, but I am saying that if the nationalists (which is most people in Canada, to varying degrees) believe that the ideal Canadian should be polite, they'll try to be polite because that's what we're all about, supposedly. I try to be polite because it's a nice thing to do, and scorn nationalism in private (doing it in public would be impolite, of course. ;) )

Good post, British Hannover.
(From a former Winnipegger, now un montréalais.)

Actually, the Parti Quebecois don't want to seperate or secede from Canada. They want Sovereignty Association; a different thing altogether. S/A entails a renegotiated Federal-Provincial relationship, with greater powers being held by Quebec, with all the benefits of the current relationship remaining intact.

Yes, this does sound like a 'have my cake and eat it too' proposition. It would also change the political/economic/social fabric of Canada dramatically - perhaps beyond recognition.

Keep in mind that the last referendum asked not if Quebec should seperate, but if the people wanted the govt. of Quebec to *begin negotiations* with the Federal govt. re: S/A

It's the typically Canadian way - comprimise.

Actually, the Parti Quebecois don't want to seperate or secede from Canada. They want Sovereignty Association; a different thing altogether.


This is René Lévesque's idea. In the 80's.

Now, about a lot of comments here: don't talk about something you don't know about.

It wouldn't be good for our economy? Then tell me why a lot of specialists don't think like that. They're specialists and you're not.
No more money from our taxes to the federal government. Taxes in ports (Montréal, Québec) will go to us.
No more negociations between federal and provincial. We waste too much time and money in these.
We're different, so we need to be able to represent our values in the world (UN).
I don't hate the English canadians. I'm not a racist. I love Québec's culture and people and I want it to become a country. If we're so serious about it, it's because there is good reasons to split from Canada. I have some more, but it would be long and I'm not too good to argue in english... but I'll do my best if someone reply.

Alot of post about something you know jack shit about!
A distinct gouvernement for a distinct nation. That's what it's all about.
If the economie suffer from us being what we are then so be it.
We will have the country we built by ourself! :)

There are two reasons that I would like to see Quebec secede from Canada:

1) It would be funny to see Quebec taken down a peg or two when they realize that their economy cannot stand on its own two feet without the rest of Canada babysitting it.

2) More importantly, it might open up the way for secessions that would be far more successful. If BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan banded together, being sick of having virtually no say over the actions of the Federal government, which panders to Ontario and Quebec, not only would the rest of Canada be screwed with so much of its resources gone, but BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan would make an extremely wealthy nation once their resources ceased to be exploited by the East for its own economic gain.

I'm not sure if Ontario and Quebec would be that "screwed" without the West...we'd probably still trade with them, and northern Ontario and northern Quebec (James Bay) do have plenty of resources of their own. There may be more restrictions on/higher fee for the resources, but I'd still think Ontario/Quebec would get them.

seperatism is on the decline... the only reason why most quebecers vote bloc or pq is because of their social democratic values, unlike the provincial and federal liberals and their neo-liberalist policies. gilles ducceppe (who, in my opinion, looks like a fruit bat) even said that just because the bloc made huge gains this past election he didn't think a referendum would be succesful because the bloc campaigned on being the best party for quebec, not the best party for seperation.



however, the saskatchewan concentration camps thing was hilarious. yes, i would find it extremely funny if Canada falls apart. even though i'd be screwed, i'd die of laughter in my own pity. or something. i'm also tired. good nite.

oh, and by the way. western alienation is a giant piece of sh*t. ANY WESTERNER NEEDS TO WAKE UP AND REALISE THAT THE FEDERAL GOV. CATERS TO ONTARIO AND QUEBEC IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE OVER 2/3 OF THE POPULATION. YOU NEVER SEE ATLANTIC CANADA COMPLAINING, AND THEIR ECONOMY IS IN THE CRAPPER.


now i am going to sleep.

I live in Montreal - I thought this seemed an appropriate time to post the Manifesto of the FLQ (Quebec Libre, motherfuckers. ;) ):


The people in the Front de Liberation du Québec are neither Messiahs nor modern-day Robin Hoods. They are a group of Quebec workers who have decided to do everything they can to assure that the people of Quebec take their destiny into their own hands, once and for all.

The Front de Libération du Québec wants total independence for Quebeckers; it wants to see them united in a free society, a society purged for good of its gang of rapacious sharks, the big bosses who dish out patronage and their henchmen, who have turned Quebec into a private preserve of cheap labour and unscrupulous exploitation.

The Front de Libération du Québec is not an aggressive movement, but a response to the aggression organized by high finance through its puppets, the federal and provincial governments (the Brinks farce, Bill 69, the electoral map, the so-called "social progress" [sic] tax, the Power Corporation, medical insurance - for the doctors, the guys at Lapalme...)

The Front de Libération du Québec finances itself - through voluntary (sic) taxes levied on the enterprises that exploit the workers (banks, finance companies, etc....).

"The money powers of the status quo, the majority of the traditional tutors of our people, have obtained from the voters the reaction they hoped for, a step backwards rather than the changes we have worked for as never before, the changes we will continue to work for." (René Lévesque, April 29, 1970).

Once, we believed it worthwhile to channel our energy and our impatience, in the apt words of René Lévesque, into the Parti Québécois, but the Liberal victory shows that what is called democracy in Quebec has always been, and still is, nothing but the "democracy" of the rich. In this sense the victory of the Liberal party is in fact nothing but the victory of the Simard-Cotroni election- fixers. Consequently, we wash our hands of the British parliamentary system; the Front de Libération du Québec will never let itself be distracted by the electoral crumbs that the Anglo-Saxon capitalists toss into the Quebec barnyard every four years. Many Quebeckers have realized the truth and are ready to take action. In the coming year Bourassa is going to get what's coming to him: 100,000 revolutionary workers, armed and organized!

Yes, there are reasons for the Liberal victory. Yes, there are reasons for poverty, unemployment, slums, for the fact that you, Mr. Bergeron of Visitation Street, and you too, Mr. Legendre of Ville de Laval, who make F10,000 a year, do not feel free in our country, Quebec.

Yes, there are reasons, the guys who work for Lord know them, and so do the fishermen of the Gash, the workers on the North Shore; the miners who work for Iron Ore, for Québec Cartier Mining, for Noranda know these reasons too. The honest workingmen at Cabano, the guys they tried to screw still one more time, they know lots of reasons.

Yes, there are reasons why you, Mr. Tremblay of Panet Street and you, Mr. Cloutier who work in construction in St. Jérôme, can't afford "Golden Vessels" with all the jazzy music and the sharp decor, like Drapeau the aristocrat, the guy who was so concerned about slums that he had coloured billboards stuck up in front of them so that the rich tourists couldn't see us in our misery.

Yes, Madame Lemay of St. Hyacinthe, there art - reasons why you can't afford a little junket to Florida like the rotten judges and members of Parliament who travel on our money. The good workers at Vickers and at Davie Shipbuilding, the ones who were given no reason for being thrown out, know these reasons; so do the guys at Murdochville that were smashed only because they wanted to form a union, and whom the rotten judges forced to pay over two million dollars because they had wanted to exercise this elementary right. The guys of Murdochville are familiar with this justice; they know lots of reasons. Yes, there are reasons why you, Mr. Lachance of St. Marguerite Street, go drowning your despair, your bitterness, and your rage in Molson's horse piss. And you, the Lachance boy, with your marijuana cigarettes...

Yes, there are reasons why you, the welfare cases, are kept from generation to generation on public assistance. There are lots of reasons, the workers for Domtar at Windsor and East Angus know them; the workers for Squibb and Ayers, for the Quebec Liquor Commission and for Seven-up and for Victoria Precision, and the blue collar workers of Laval and of Montreal and the guys at Lapalme know lots of reasons.

The workers at Dupont of Canada know some reasons too, even if they will soon be able to express them only in English (thus assimilated, they will swell the number of New Quebeckers, the immigrants who are the darlings of Bill 69).

These reasons ought to have been understood by the policemen of Montreal, the system's muscle; they ought to have realized that we live in a terrorized society, because without their force and their violence, everything fell apart on October 7.

We've had enough of a Canadian federalism which penalizes the dairy farmers of Quebec to satisfy the requirements of the Anglo-Saxons of the Commonwealth; which keeps the honest taxi drivers of Montreal in a state of semi-slavery by shamefully protecting the exclusive monopoly of the nauseating Murray Hill, and its owner - the murderer Charles Hershorn and his son Paul who, the night of October 7, repeatedly tore a .22 rifle out of the hands of his employees to fire on the taxi drivers and thereby mortally wounded Corporal Dumas, killed as a demonstrator. Canadian federalism pursues a reckless import policy, thereby throwing out of work the people who earn low wages in the textile and shoe industries, the most downtrodden people in Quebec, and all to line the pockets of a handful of filthy "money-makers" in Cadillacs. We are fed up with a federalism which classes the Quebec nation among the ethnic minorities of Canada.

We, and more and more Quebeckers too, have had it with a government of pussy-footers who perform a hundred and one tricks to charm the American millionaires, begging them to come and invest in Quebec, the Beautiful Province where thousands of square miles of forests full of game and of lakes full of fish are the exclusive property of these all-powerful lords of the twentieth century. We are sick of a government in the hands of a hypocrite like Bourassa who depends on Brinks armoured trucks, an authentic symbol of the foreign occupation of Quebec, to keep the poor Quebec "natives" fearful of that poverty and unemployment to which we are so accustomed.

We are fed up with the taxes we pay that Ottawa's agent in Quebec would give to the English-speaking bosses as an "incentive" for them to speak French, to negotiate in French. Repeat after me: "Cheap labour is main d'oeuvre à bon marché in French."

We have had enough of promises of work and of prosperity, when in fact we will always be the diligent servants and bootlickers of the big shots, as long as there is a Westmount, a Town of Mount Royal, a Hampstead, an Outremont, all these veritable fortresses of the high finance of St. James Street and Wall Street; we will be slaves until Quebeckers, all of us, have used every means, including dynamite and guns, to drive out these big bosses of the economy and of politics, who will stoop to any action however base, the better to screw us.

We live in a society of terrorized slaves, terrorized by the big bosses, Steinberg, Clark, Bronfman, Smith, Neopole, Timmins, Geoffrion, J.L. Lévesque, Hershorn, Thompson, Nesbitt, Desmarais, Kierans (next to these, Rémi Popol the Nightstick, Drapeau the Dog, the Simards' Simple Simon and Trudeau the Pansy are peanuts!).

We are terrorized by the Roman Capitalist Church, though this is less and less true today (who owns the square where the Stock Exchange was built?); terrorized by the payments owing to Household Finance, by the advertising of the grand masters of consumption, Eaton's, Simpson's, Morgan's, Steinberg's, General Motors - terrorized by those exclusive clubs of science and culture, the universities, and by their boss-directors Gaudry and Dorais, and by the vice-boss Robert Shaw.

There are more and more of us who know and suffer under this terrorist society, and the day is coming when all the Westmounts of Quebec will disappear from the map.

Workers in industry, in mines and in the forests! Workers in the service industries, teachers, students and unemployed! Take what belongs to you, your jobs, your determination and your freedom. And you, the workers at General Electric, you make your factories run; you are the only ones able to produce; without you, General Electric is nothing!

Workers of Quebec, begin from this day forward to take back what is yours; take yourselves what belongs to you. Only you know your factories, your machines, your hotels, your universities, your unions; do not wait for some organization to produce a miracle.

Make your revolution yourselves in your neighbourhoods, in your places of work. If you don't do it yourselves, other usurpers, technocrats or someone else, will replace the handful of cigar-smokers we know today and everything will have to be done all over again. Only you are capable of building a free society.

We must struggle not individually but together, till victory is obtained, with every means at our disposal, like the Patriots of 1837-1838 (those whom Our Holy Mother Church hastened to excommunicate, the better to sell out to British interests).

In the four corners of Quebec, may those who have been disdainfully called lousy Frenchmen and alcoholics begin a vigorous battle against those who have muzzled liberty and justice; may they put out of commission all the professional holdup artists and swindlers: bankers, businessmen, judges and corrupt political wheeler-dealers....

We are Quebec workers and we are prepared to go all the way. With the help of the entire population, we want to replace this society of slaves by a free society, operating by itself and for itself, a society open on the world. Our struggle can only be victorious. A people that has awakened cannot long be kept in misery and contempt.

Long live Free Quebec! Long live our comrades the political prisoners! Long live the Quebec Revolution! Long live the Front de Liberation do Quebec!

Nationalism is not funny, it's evil! (Evil Canadian Commie here. :))

Now, I believe the difference in how people act in different countries is due to the economic policies in that country. The USA is a cutthroat society. If you don't do what it takes to advance, then you will never get anywhere. In Canada, it's not as bad as that, although it is somewhere between European Socialism and American capitalism.
What's so bad about intense competition? After all, in competetion the best is produced, whilst the worst is gotten rid of.

Liberté pour le Québec!

Les fils et les filles du Québec, se lèvent vers le haut!

Renversez vos overlords canadiens!

I just went to Quebec City, and my tour guide told us how Montcalm really defeated Wolfe, and the British lost the war of 1754 in North America.

I had to double check to make sure what language the money was printed in!

Frenchizzle mah nizzle!

seperatism is on the decline... so...they are getting less votes every poll.....rite?

This is René Lévesque's idea. In the 80's.

Now, about a lot of comments here: don't talk about something you don't know about.

It wouldn't be good for our economy? Then tell me why a lot of specialists don't think like that. They're specialists and you're not.

No more negociations between federal and provincial. We waste too much time and money in these.


Three responses to this:

1- (Don't talk about. . . you don't know about)
This, of course, is why Quebec is so universally loved. I mean, how much more endearing could you possibly be?

2- (They're specialist and you're not)
See what I mean? Besides, my specialist can beat up your specialist, so fooey!

3- (No more negotiations between federal and provincial. We waste too much money in these)
My original point is that a civil war over Quebec is unlikely, given the Canadian preference for negotiation and compromise in all things political. Frankly, I don't see any reason why all of Quebec's concerns can't be addressed within the context of an ongoing dialogue between Quebec, the Federal Government, and the other provinces. Oh sorry, I forgot, THAT WOULD BE A WASTE OF MONEY!!

oh, and by the way. western alienation is a giant piece of sh*t. ANY WESTERNER NEEDS TO WAKE UP AND REALISE THAT THE FEDERAL GOV. CATERS TO ONTARIO AND QUEBEC IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE OVER 2/3 OF THE POPULATION. YOU NEVER SEE ATLANTIC CANADA COMPLAINING, AND THEIR ECONOMY IS IN THE CRAPPER.


now i am going to sleep.


Proving that a) you've never been to Atlantic Canada, b) you don't actually follow Canadian political decisions, and c) you have a problem with your caps-lock key.

I can't help you with the first two, but for the third might I suggest banging your keyboard against your forehead repeatedly until the problem corrects itself.

Proving that a) you've never been to Atlantic Canada, b) you don't actually follow Canadian political decisions, and c) you have a problem with your caps-lock key.

I can't help you with the first two, but for the third might I suggest banging your keyboard against your forehead repeatedly until the problem corrects itself. :D :eek: :D :D
Sooner or later he will hit the c-lock key...

You know, that c-lock key is really annoying. Often times when I am typing and I reach for the left shift key, my pinky finger hits the c-lock key, and I mean it is such a long distance to reach to hit it again, I mean, moving my pinky all the way one key to the left...

As for the economics of leaving, well, to be frank Quebec is in the worst position of any province to leave. Every province, with the exception of Quebec, has more north south trade (to the US) than east west trade (with other provinces). In Quebec however the reverse is true.

Now as for trading with the US, if Quebec where to put its own signature on NAFTA they would lose a lot of power. Quebec gets away with a lot of its bullying trade practices because it is in fact a province and not country. Subsidizing industries, playing favorites in contracting etc are all frowned upon now, but as a province Quebec is not held directly accountable to the NAFTA board, as a state it would be. Gone are the days of Quebec companies undercutting other provinces based on the guaranteed income base of the domestic market.

Also to note, while it is neither here nor there, companies like Bombardier THRIVE off federal contracts. I can almost guarantee you that should Quebec leave it’d be political suicide for any federal government to give a Quebec company any contract.

As for the port taxes in Montreal what are you shipping? While Quebec has a huge industrial base I bet a fair portion of it is goods going to or from the golden horseshoe in Ontario. Not to mention that Quebec has no trading agreements with other nations, Canada does. So immediately after separation you will see your trading drop to zilch. Now you have to negotiate on a federal level, state to state, and you won’t be able to get huffy and threaten to leave.

As for money going to the federal government, you do realize that you’ll loose all joint programs and federal responsibilities. Quebec gets more per capita from the feds than Sask., Alta., Ont., and though I can’t speak for its accuracy (though I’d say it sounds about right) this http://www.uni.ca/cashcow.html seems to think you guys are profiting from the federal government. As for something I can guarantee, the only province that got a better transfer than you was Ontario, and that was out of sheer population benefit. (http://www.fin.gc.ca/frt/2004/frt_e.pdf )

I think the fact that your still here despite all the “experts” saying its better to leave is the biggest indicator. As long as you’re here the feds will be your bitch and you know it. As much as I can respect your opinion that Canada and Quebec need to be separate its my opinion that the separatist ideals in Quebec need to be bred out, whether by propaganda, immigration of just plain bribery. HOWEVER, I still believe that you should be treated with the up most respect, as any other province.
-----------------------------------------------------

Now as for the comments about Atlantic Canada, :D well everything past Edmundston is Upper Canada as far as I’m concerned and if your from there you’re a ‘damn upper Canadian.’ :D

But seriously NB, NS, PEI, and NFLD bitch constantly, no one listens. In fact one of the bitching that NFLD does is about the Quebecers ripping off their power. So if you guys did separate your power will jump about a nickel a kwh

But that’s only my two cents worth and boy did it feel good to get off my chest. :D

The Canadian Dollar? LOL thats pathetic...
why not the American Dollar?

Do you have any idea how much the Quebequois hate the US? Even more then the rest of the world, they are very French.

Do you have any idea how much the Quebequois hate the US? Even more then the rest of the world, they are very French.I am American...and I am in Quebec as we speak...My sister is American, and she Lives here, they treat us very well...

I say you are full of shit.

BTW the Party for independence(Bloc)...has already said they would drop the Canadian currency and adopt the American Dollar...also they want to double trade with the States.

...most of my electricity comes from Quebec...Im looking forward to the Day when Quebec can sell us Electricity at the same price they sell it now to Canada.

disclaimer:
so, this is just a random tired rant, and it's about Canada. Why? Because I am random and tired!

random tired rant:
Wouldn't it be funny if Quebec actually got around to seceding from Canada and they had a civil war. i think that would be freaking awesome. In several ways.

So they think they're french. That's fine. Let them. I happen to think they'd be fine without everyone else, and so do they. Besides, they have all of the good cheese. They even made an awesome movie there. Jesus of Montreal. There's nothing wrong with the Quebecois.

disclaimer:
so, this is just a random tired rant, and it's about Canada. Why? Because I am random and tired!

random tired rant:
Wouldn't it be funny if Quebec actually got around to seceding from Canada and they had a civil war. i think that would be freaking awesome. In several ways.
You can go back to sleep now. You will think much more clearly when you awaken?

This is René Lévesque's idea. In the 80's.

Now, about a lot of comments here: don't talk about something you don't know about.

It wouldn't be good for our economy? Then tell me why a lot of specialists don't think like that. They're specialists and you're not.
No more money from our taxes to the federal government. Taxes in ports (Montréal, Québec) will go to us.
No more negociations between federal and provincial. We waste too much time and money in these.
We're different, so we need to be able to represent our values in the world (UN).
I don't hate the English canadians. I'm not a racist. I love Québec's culture and people and I want it to become a country. If we're so serious about it, it's because there is good reasons to split from Canada. I have some more, but it would be long and I'm not too good to argue in english... but I'll do my best if someone reply.


No more cheeky distinct society privileges?
No more free pass on national defence?
No more federal government handouts?
No more Canada to blame all your problems on?

Quebec would be right fucked without Canada. Most Quebecers support seperatism for the language issue; that seemingly impossible dream of living in a french-speaking state. Quebec's two largest trade partners are Canada and the U.S., two English states and if Quebec became the aforementioned pure french state, there'll be some barriers in communication. That means that Montreal port tax revenue you're dreaming of decreases.

I really can't imagine a scenario where Quebec is better without Canada. That is - unless you call better a bunch of Quebecers grinning like idiots in their log cabins, eating blubber around a fire, singing "Alouette, Gentil Alouette" while nursing a Molson Ex between their legs. Home is where you make it, I suppose.

I think Alberta and B.C. should seperate from Canada. We even have a separatist party in Alberta, although it is a tiny, tiny party. Combined, Alberta and B.C. are the only two provinces that could survive as a country, mostly because of our diverse resources. And, if marijuana was legalized, we would be the largest exporter of pot. (B.C. is already has that dubious title, too bad the government isn't cashing in on it.)

Alot of post about something you know jack shit about!
A distinct gouvernement for a distinct nation. That's what it's all about.
If the economie suffer from us being what we are then so be it.
We will have the country we built by ourself! :)

Cool because I can actually visualize you talking exactly like that.

Vive le Colombie-Britannique, Alberta y Saskatchewan libre!

Let Quebec separate and find out how crappy life is without a solid economy and no special health plan you forced Martin to sign in the back room 10 minutes before the conference. It's just too bad you're going to separate to be left with a health system deemed at least 3 years behind the rest of the provinces, and an education system still grasping on to outdated Catholic beliefs.

Good luck, you'll. need. it. badly.

....And, if marijuana was legalized, we would be the largest exporter of pot.hmmm...I wanna be a Columbian too :D
BC looking good

(B.C. is already has that dubious title, too bad the government isn't cashing in on it.)

Oh I think BC Hydro doesn't mind giving people with huge indoor grow ops big juicy electric bills. They tend to break the knee-caps of those who bypass the meter though.


Oh and BTW the real reason BC is such a big pot farm is coz electricity is relatively dirt cheap! Outdoor weed is teh sux! :D

I just went to Quebec City, and my tour guide told us how Montcalm really defeated Wolfe, and the British lost the war of 1754 in North America.

I had to double check to make sure what language the money was printed in!
Oh, got the tour of the Citadel, eh? ;) Bad English and all?

Wow, some people got excessively angsty regarding this silly little post.

And, no appeals to reason will never make me think that this isn't amusing. Espescially when I am tired and in a random mood.

I assume you mean if Quebec seperates and then there's a civil war in Quebec? Or do you mean that the instability caused by Quebec's seperation causes provinces to begin demanding more decentralized policies leading to a Canadian civil war?
Obviously you don't mean that Quebec might engage in a war with the rest of what is now Canada, right? Because if Quebec seperated, and then started a war against Canada, that wouldn't be a civil war, because Quebec would be a seperate nation by then. It would just be a war.... so, you wanna specify?
Right...
Because when the South seceded from the North, created an independent nation, and then lost the war, it wasn't named "The Civil War"? Always remember, history is written by the victor.

To be fair, Canada has got its system a little bit screwy. After all, Canadians pay an enormous cut of their income to the government. Originally, that paid for health care and other such Socialistic measures. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but they have to pay for their own health care now, and they still pay the same amount of tax.

To be fair, Canada has got its system a little bit screwy. After all, Canadians pay an enormous cut of their income to the government. Originally, that paid for health care and other such Socialistic measures. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but they have to pay for their own health care now, and they still pay the same amount of tax.
That is incorrect. BTW, it is not an enormous cut of our taxes. In general, I do believe that we on the whole pay far less than Americans for health care coverage and that our coverages are far more comprehensive than the US coverage.

It’s approximated that on a per year basis because of EI, income taxes, sales tax etc, etc the average Canadian pays APPROXIMATELY half of his income to the government (either level.)

But on the same note I’ve broken three bones, had five day surgeries, two major operations, countless X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, blood tests, stitches up the wazoo, and more emergency room visits than I care to count. I’ve never paid a cent for any of it thanks that little piece of plastic I call a NB healthcare card.

To give you an idea of Canada’s policies think Scandinavia. Now think USA. Now mash them together and see what comes out. Depending on the party in power it varies somewhat, (though the liberals have been I power for my entire living memory, I’m only 20)

If you hate us sooo much, then tell me why you want Québec to stay in Canada?

Like the Zapartistes say: Vive le Canada libre!

Anyway. I don't say it won't be easy. We'll have to work hard and have good politicians. I think we're not ready yet (need a new leader for the parti Québécois), but we will be and we'll succeed. This is not a little idea thrown like that, this is something we think about since 1976 and even before. We had time to analyse our situation. We have a lot of smart people who believe in this.

If Canada legalized marijuana, I would do my damnedest to move there. Of course, this is the risk Canada takes in thinking about legalizing it. You might have hordes of stoners, some less pleasant than others, trying to immigrate. Then again, trying to emigrate to Canada is like trying to break into Fort Knox. Unless you already have money or a very rare skill, or a Canadian spouse, they don't want to know.

Ah, so you pay about 50%. Ok, I wondered. It's probably similar throughout the nations with pseudo-socialism.

If you hate us sooo much, then tell me why you want Québec to stay in Canada?

Like the Zapartistes say: Vive le Canada libre!

Anyway. I don't say it won't be easy. We'll have to work hard and have good politicians. I think we're not ready yet (need a new leader for the parti Québécois), but we will be and we'll succeed. This is not a little idea thrown like that, this is something we think about since 1976 and even before. We had time to analyse our situation. We have a lot of smart people who believe in this.

Because the second you leave Canada has failed. The entire premise of our nation is the acceptance and co-existence with diverse cultures and minorities. We’ve ever evolved towards that goal and I refuse to accept that our entire history and culture was for naught. Canada was the merging of three nations into one. The English, The French and the 1st nations all made a pact to stick it out as a group. To be greater than the sum of their parts and if Quebec leaves it will not be a joyous occasion or the lifting of a burden it will be a slap in the face that we could not understand you enough to figure out what it was that you wanted.

I’ve never said I hate you. I’m Canadian dammit and so are you. As far as I’m concerned this nation is built on principle that no other nation aspires to. If Canada loses Quebec we’ll be losing more than a hunk of our midsection we’ll be losing a good chunk of our culture, our heritage hell the soul of our nation will forever me marred by your speration.

Now that was a bit nationalist and I have to apologize but I am very patriotic and my Canada includes Quebec.

(It would include Cuba too but that’s another rant :D )

Then again, trying to emigrate to Canada is like trying to break into Fort Knox. Unless you already have money or a very rare skill, or a Canadian spouse, they don't want to know.

What are you talking about? Canada has one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world, if not the most liberal.

If you have a college education, speak either English or French and are between 20 and 50 years of age you are almost guaranteed to be given a resident visa. All you have to do then is proof that you have enough assets to live there for six months while you find a job.

And if you go through one of the provincial nomination programs it may even be easier.

Just check out the CIC website: www.cic.gc.ca

*Decides, hmm, it's time for a tirade!*

That message did sound a bit nationalist, but there's nothing wrong with a bit of nationalism now and then. People make nationalism out to be such a terrible thing and that it causes all this strife and such. Did you know that nationalism was a key part of the Versailles Treaty? Yes, there was a time long ago when people believed that if enough people in a given region showed sufficient (but not too much) love of country that everyone would be happy and just go along having a nice day. Now admittedly Versailles was a flawed treaty, but there were plenty of noble things in Versailles, like the League of Nations. Very noble idea. It was one of Wilson's many good ideas that morons like Clemenceau twisted. Clemenceau and Lloyd George and the Italian dude were so damn bitter that all they could do was rip two, stable nations to pieces and lay the seeds for another, more catastrophic war. But, I feel I am going to be taking up enough space with this mad, off topic rant, so that's the end of it, I swear! (The rant that is, not the thread, I want too see this discussed, it's really fascinating to a crazy American like me. Hey, did you know that the residents of the US aren't technically supposed to be called Americans? Yep, we're supposed to be called US citizens! Or at least that's what one can determine from the founding fathers *Whump*)

*Man in black clothes ties Andy up in a bag and carries him off*

To be fair, Canada has got its system a little bit screwy. After all, Canadians pay an enormous cut of their income to the government. Originally, that paid for health care and other such Socialistic measures. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but they have to pay for their own health care now, and they still pay the same amount of tax.

If I were a minimum wage employee in Myrtle Beach, with absolutely no hope of a health care plan that I could afford, I'd have to be bleeding to death on the floor before I could even think about going to the hospital. As it was, earlier this year I spent a week in the hospital. One week. Total cost? Twenty bucks for the ambulance ride. If that's socialism, I'll take it, thank you very much.

Health Care in Canada is administered by the provinces, but the bulk of the cost is borne by the Federal Government under a cost-sharing agreement. Something else Quebec needs to think about, just in case the Feds decide not to let the gravy train keep rolling after their independance.

The western provinces have not ever been very committed to federalism. It's that "code of the west" idea, rugged individualism, and not trusting anybody from the east.

If Quebec left, odds are Alberta and Saskatchewan would too. Maybe Manitoba.

That leaves Ontario, BC, and the Maritimes.

New Brunswick is half francophone; they might divide, or just throw in with Quebec.

Maybe there would be war in the west with the prairie provinces trying to take over Vancouver for a seaport. They would need a port. Ottawa would be called in to defend. The distance and supply chain would be a problem.

Ontario would have to find a way to get to the sea past Quebec, too.

Might make a good RP.

Health Care in Canada is administered by the provinces, but the bulk of the cost is borne by the Federal Government under a cost-sharing agreement. Something else Quebec needs to think about, just in case the Feds decide not to let the gravy train keep rolling after their independance.
I don't think the Feds really pay that much. They used to take care of 50% of the costs, but that's reduced dramatically over the years, as I recall. Romanow report recommends they up the ante again.

The Canadian Dollar? LOL thats pathetic...
why not the American Dollar?
Firstly, a lot of quebecquois hate the American government.
Secondly, In a couple years the Canadian Dollar will be worth more than the American Dollar, assuming Bush gets re-elected

2) More importantly, it might open up the way for secessions that would be far more successful. If BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan banded together, being sick of having virtually no say over the actions of the Federal government, which panders to Ontario and Quebec, not only would the rest of Canada be screwed with so much of its resources gone, but BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan would make an extremely wealthy nation once their resources ceased to be exploited by the East for its own economic gain.

I'd rather have us in the west just threaten the feds to the point we get less alienated. I don't want to leave Canada. If we do that, we'll probably become the newest state. Think about it. Pretty much all of the west except for Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland unfortunately vote Conservative.

Canadian civil war..!?

Heh he he he he.... :D

The only civil war that would actually BE civil..!

Each side would try to out-nice the other. No one would be killed,.. only overly-assisted into a stupor by the RCMP.

The RCMP itself would assume the role of it's own neutral third pary peacekeeping force, keeping the many provincial armies from annoying each other with gifts of food and beer across the battlefields.

A war like that could rage for generations....

..without anyone noticing.

Hmmmmmmm,... is THAT what you guys are doing up there..?

You know the RCMP is only in the west of Canada, and even then, only in small towns. It used to be called the North West Mounted Police.

hmmm...I wanna be a Columbian too :D
BC looking good
Did you just call us Columbians? We're British Columbians, and that's are only nickname, except for maybe 'stoner'.

You know the RCMP is only in the west of Canada, and even then, only in small towns. It used to be called the North West Mounted Police.

That is untrue. Since the RCMP is a federal police force, it also assumes the role of an 'FBI' of sorts. And, here in Calgary we have an RCMP presence, and we're no 'small town'. Granted the RCMP is the only real police force for a lot of smaller communities, thats not all they do.

Come on thread! I know you can make it to 8 pages! Even If I have to force you over the top!

I'd have to say that it would probably suck for all of North America if Quebec were to secede from Canada. For example, Canada would lose a large population and economic hunk, Quebec would lose a the rest of Canada, and all of the things that come with being part of Canada. The US wouldn't have fun trying to work out another trade deal with Canada and Quebec. That's just a thought by me.

New Brunswick is the ONLY Province in all of Canada to have French as an official language.

Wrong!!!!!!! New-Brunswick is the only province recognonized as a bilingual one and Québec is the only one with French as first language.

Manu

Maybe I can get more people to post by insulting Canada...

Maybe I can get more people to post by insulting Canada...
Let's see if I can get some outrage going for you.... Uh,.... Trudeau is overrated! (Anyone pissed yet?) And Laurier was spineless and too open to compromise! (That's gotta get the Frech going, right?) And William Lyon Mackenzie King was crazy! (Yeah, like THAT comment will annoy anyone.. great thinking... idiot.) And he had a foolishly long name!

If you have a college education, speak either English or French and are between 20 and 50 years of age you are almost guaranteed to be given a resident visa. All you have to do then is proof that you have enough assets to live there for six months ]
My Bro is on a student visa...he asked for a "Work permit"

College ed?....hes got it
does he speaks English? CHECK
between 20 and 50?....CHECK
6 MONTHS money?....CHECK.

But they are yet to give him anything.....

Iztatepopotla...you must have a good Immigration Lawyer...wanna share?

Firstly, a lot of quebecquois hate the American government.
Secondly, In a couple years the Canadian Dollar will be worth more than the American Dollar, assuming Bush gets re-electedMy American Dollars are accepted all over Quebec, manytimes they give me a preferencial exchange rate....Bush is there for a maximum of 8 years.

OK, here goes the insults, I want to get to page 8!

Crazy drugged up Canuck Twits! You and your Mounties can go and suck your stupid socialized medicine! And your obsession with the queen. Listen, the queen sucks. She's an old wench. Yep, your mounties suck too, if they were to get in a fight with a couple of mosquitos, the mosquitos would win. We oughta just move right through British Columbia and make an overland route to Alaska! It wouldn't be hard, we'd only need like ten drunk guys with a whole bunch of litter!

Now you shall respond with all the insults you want! We don't want this bit of madness to be one sided, do we?

OK, here goes the insults, I want to get to page 8!

Crazy drugged up Canuck Twits! You and your Mounties can go and suck your stupid socialized medicine! And your obsession with the queen. Listen, the queen sucks. She's an old wench. Yep, your mounties suck too, if they were to get in a fight with a couple of mosquitos, the mosquitos would win. We oughta just move right through British Columbia and make an overland route to Alaska! It wouldn't be hard, we'd only need like ten drunk guys with a whole bunch of litter!
I'll assist you in your efforts.
You are meanspirited and also evil.... uh, your disrespect for our healthcare if hurtful, but less so than the... umm.. bad thing about America. Ah, screw it. I got nothing.

c'mon everyone! Be mean! I know you can!

Only, 3, now two more posts, c;mon!

I don't think the Feds really pay that much. They used to take care of 50% of the costs, but that's reduced dramatically over the years, as I recall. Romanow report recommends they up the ante again.


Very true - well said, Marxlan. The current crises in health care is a manufactured one, as the Feds have been holding back money. Why this is happening at a time of record Federal surpluses is beyond me. I was amazed to hear Paul Martin's promises of health care funding increases during the last election. . . he was promising to put back in a fraction of the money the Chretien government took out of the system.

Today it was announced that the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto (a world leader in their field) would endure cutbacks, and our own local hospital is in the same boat. I wonder if Quebec's funding has remained stable during this time.

Yep, your mounties suck too, if they were to get in a fight with a couple of mosquitos, the mosquitos would win. We oughta just move right through British Columbia and make an overland route to Alaska! It wouldn't be hard, we'd only need like ten drunk guys with a whole bunch of litter!

Actually, have you seen the mosquitoes in British Columbia? Last summer I saw two of them carry off a Buick. They dropped it on the rocks on the beach -- I think they were trying to break it open.

If you're thinking of invading, though, you'd better watch out for the submarine fleet . . . oh, never mind. Wait, the Sea-King helicopters . . . oh, forget it. Whatever. I'm sure you'd need more than ten guys.

I like the Queen, but only because it's nice to have a Royal Family that's more screwed up than my own, and that's saying something.

Very true - well said, Marxlan. The current crises in health care is a manufactured one, as the Feds have been holding back money. Why this is happening at a time of record Federal surpluses is beyond me. I was amazed to hear Paul Martin's promises of health care funding increases during the last election. . . he was promising to put back in a fraction of the money the Chretien government took out of the system.

Today it was announced that the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto (a world leader in their field) would endure cutbacks, and our own local hospital is in the same boat. I wonder if Quebec's funding has remained stable during this time.
Perhaps you are unaware of the new health care accord between the Provinces and the Federal Government, signed on Sept. 16th this year?

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1095245877874_294?hub=topstories

Paul Martin promised and has delivered.

OK, here goes the insults, I want to get to page 8!

Crazy drugged up Canuck Twits! You and your Mounties can go and suck your stupid socialized medicine! And your obsession with the queen. Listen, the queen sucks. She's an old wench. Yep, your mounties suck too, if they were to get in a fight with a couple of mosquitos, the mosquitos would win. We oughta just move right through British Columbia and make an overland route to Alaska! It wouldn't be hard, we'd only need like ten drunk guys with a whole bunch of litter!

You United-Stadiens! That's enough of an insult for me.

Manu

P.S. My friend right beside says : At least we are not governed by a war maniac.

You United-Stadiens! That's enough of an insult for me.

Manu

P.S. My friend right beside says : At least we are not governed by a war maniac.

hey, he isn't always a war maniac, only when he lays off on the hard liquor, you know, when he averages less than 12 drinks an hour

And I didn't vote for him, oh wait, I was 14 in 2000, I couldn't vote.

Perhaps you are unaware of the new health care accord between the Provinces and the Federal Government, signed on Sept. 16th this year?

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1095245877874_294?hub=topstories

Paul Martin promised and has delivered.


The following qoutes were cut and pasted directly from the article at the above url. For clarity I'll put the article qoutes in >>arrows<< while my comments are in (brackets)

>>The deal is about $6 billion more than Paul Martin initially offered, but is considerably less than the $90 billion the provinces were collectively asking for at one point.<<

(So what, exactly, has Martin delivered? LESS than the provinces needed. Despite this fabulous deal the hospital in my town is undergoing cutbacks. Go figure)

>>Premier Jean Charest of Quebec signed the deal but, with Martin's blessing, issued a separate statement saying it would go alone in setting a wait-times reduction plan . . . Asked by reporters why he made the exception for Quebec, Martin said "because we recognize the special status of Quebec."<<

(More special deals for Quebec. Who saw that one coming?)

>>According to some details released June 30, those could include more user fees and higher health care premiums.<<

(Wait a minute. . . didn't Martin just INCREASE the funding? But we're getting more user fees and higher premiums? What the hell kind of deal is that? Exactly what did Martin deliver? Oh right, I forgot -- he delivered LESS THAN THE PROVINCES NEEDED!!!!)

>>When asked by reporters if the deal will indeed last 10 years, Gary Mar, Alberta's health minister, said it might not. He noted that health care costs are still rising faster than general inflation or government revenues.<<

(So the real issue, runaway costs, wasn't addressed. The deal is doomed to failure because, as the article said, costs are still rising faster than. . . wait for it . . . government revenues. There is no way this plan can be sustained for the long haul. It's a quick fix, nothing more -- sort of like repairing the Titanic with duct tape.)

>>Asked how the deal happened, given some of the obvious tensions, Craig Oliver, CTV's bureau Ottawa chief, said: "It happened simply because they all needed a deal. It was in the political interests of all of them. The country would have no less. "I think they also all remember the catastrophic results, to the politicians involved and to national unity, of the failures of Charlottetown and Meech."<<

(If I'm rinterpreting the above qoute from article correctly, it appears that, given the mood of the electorate on this issue, each and every one of them were scared of looking like they were the one to scuttle the conference. Did you catch in the above qoute? "...they also all remember the catastrophic results *to the politicians involved* . . . of the failures of Charlottetown and Meech")

>>While the deal is a 10-year one, Oliver said Martin only needed a fix for two years. "In that regard, the significance of this is he can check off as 'done' the most important promise of his election campaign."<<

(A fix for two years? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't his campaign pledge to fix the health care system for a generation? On the other hand, I'm thrilled that the PM can tick that one off his list)

After all, he's ticking me off, no?

The Canadian Dollar? LOL thats pathetic...
why not the American Dollar?


Take a look at the current US vs. Canadian exchange. Then compare them from two months ago. No country's currency is sacred or absolute. Both the Canadian and Us dollar have 'clout' in the world.

A province attempting to gain independence (sp?) from Canada will face hard finacial times, regardles of what the current value of the US dollar is. The question is; is any province a viable spot for seperation?


The West, maybe. The far East...maybe. A Province that would seperate a country?...no.

If nothing else it is logistics. Seperate the Maritimes from the Center? From the West? It makes no sense...not for Canada...not even for the possible country of Quebec.

To seperate is one thing...to physically seperate a country...well, that is quite another thing.


p.s-Next time you wish to refer to another nation's currency as 'pathetic', board a flight to the UK. Feel owned....understand how pathetic your comment is.

The following qoutes were cut and pasted directly from the article at the above url. For clarity I'll put the article qoutes in >>arrows<< while my comments are in (brackets)

>>The deal is about $6 billion more than Paul Martin initially offered, but is considerably less than the $90 billion the provinces were collectively asking for at one point.<<

(So what, exactly, has Martin delivered? LESS than the provinces needed. Despite this fabulous deal the hospital in my town is undergoing cutbacks. Go figure)

>>Premier Jean Charest of Quebec signed the deal but, with Martin's blessing, issued a separate statement saying it would go alone in setting a wait-times reduction plan . . . Asked by reporters why he made the exception for Quebec, Martin said "because we recognize the special status of Quebec."<<

(More special deals for Quebec. Who saw that one coming?)

>>According to some details released June 30, those could include more user fees and higher health care premiums.<<

(Wait a minute. . . didn't Martin just INCREASE the funding? But we're getting more user fees and higher premiums? What the hell kind of deal is that? Exactly what did Martin deliver? Oh right, I forgot -- he delivered LESS THAN THE PROVINCES NEEDED!!!!)

>>When asked by reporters if the deal will indeed last 10 years, Gary Mar, Alberta's health minister, said it might not. He noted that health care costs are still rising faster than general inflation or government revenues.<<

(So the real issue, runaway costs, wasn't addressed. The deal is doomed to failure because, as the article said, costs are still rising faster than. . . wait for it . . . government revenues. There is no way this plan can be sustained for the long haul. It's a quick fix, nothing more -- sort of like repairing the Titanic with duct tape.)

>>Asked how the deal happened, given some of the obvious tensions, Craig Oliver, CTV's bureau Ottawa chief, said: "It happened simply because they all needed a deal. It was in the political interests of all of them. The country would have no less. "I think they also all remember the catastrophic results, to the politicians involved and to national unity, of the failures of Charlottetown and Meech."<<

(If I'm rinterpreting the above qoute from article correctly, it appears that, given the mood of the electorate on this issue, each and every one of them were scared of looking like they were the one to scuttle the conference. Did you catch in the above qoute? "...they also all remember the catastrophic results *to the politicians involved* . . . of the failures of Charlottetown and Meech")

>>While the deal is a 10-year one, Oliver said Martin only needed a fix for two years. "In that regard, the significance of this is he can check off as 'done' the most important promise of his election campaign."<<

(A fix for two years? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't his campaign pledge to fix the health care system for a generation? On the other hand, I'm thrilled that the PM can tick that one off his list)

After all, he's ticking me off, no?
I guess if you go through an article and only pick out the possible negatives, you miss the obvious positives. The most obvious positive is that Canada's health care is getting an infusion of $41 Billion. Although the Provinces might have been seeking $90 Billion (political posturing), that would be pie in the sky and thus a negotiated settlement was required.

The positives other than the $41 Billion:

"It will lead to better health care for all Canadians ... It will result in better access to health care professionals so that Canadians can see a doctor where they need to, when they need to,"

Martin won his fight to reduce waiting times for various medical procedures, such as joint replacements. Provinces will have to set acceptable wait times by Dec. 31, 2005 and to have them established by independent medical experts.

The provinces will co-operate in establishing criteria for measuring wait times across Canada.

However, the total federal expenditure over 10 years is expected to be $41.2 billion, to account for cost increases (there is a six per cent cost escalation factor).

"This represents not only the full realization not only of the financial recommendations of the Romanow Commission, which in fact we exceeded, but also the comprehensive plan for health care that was outlined in our election platform," Martin said.

All of the premiers at the meeting were full of praise for Martin's leadership over the summit's course.

"You certainly had my respect, and you've certainly earned my respect," said Premier Danny Williams of Newfoundland and Labrador, who went on to describe Martin as a tough negotiator with the ability to compromise.

Earlier, Williams had been railing about scraps and crumbs, but said he was leaving the meeting relatively happy.

John Hamm, premier of Nova Scotia, said it was the best first ministers meeting he's attended in his five years as premier -- although he also said the agreement wasn't perfect.

Lorne Calvert, premier of Saskatchewan, also said it wasn't a perfect deal, but it will lead to more stability and predictability in health care funding.

"It's a good plan to support our efforts to reduce wait times. It's a good plan for the patients we serve now, and for the ones we will serve in the years ahead," said Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty.

McGuinty also praised his fellow premiers, saying regional and political differences were put aside.

"It hasn't been an easy or a tidy process, but in the end, it's a reminder that far more unites us as Canadians than divides us as governments," he said.

"What has been paramount in this process, right around the table, is a commitment to 30 million Canadians and their health and well-being."

McGuinty noted his province still faced a large deficit and other challenges, "but we can do more to reduce wait times with this plan than we could have without it."

Even Alberta Premier Ralph Klein expressed pleasure, telling reporters: "I'm more pleased now than I was before.

"The kind of money involved here, billions of dollars, is bound to have an effect on waiting lists. It's a start towards things like home care and to some degree, pharmacare."

The leaders made progress on many issues including one of accountability with respecs to how the money is spent and whether health care goals are being met, sources told CTV's Mike Duffy.

Earlier Wednesday, after two full days of negotiations and a Sunday meeting, the premiers struck two committees to work on the health-care deal.

So you can remained rooted in your negativity or you can grasp the significant positive move forward that was accomplished by the Premiers and the Prime Minister.

So, 8 pages, I knew you could do it! Thanks!

I just read the hole 8 pages... let me add at least 1/4 of one, for encouragement...

1) About the comments of canadians being soooooooo nice... I think we've just read enough mean things about Quebecers from other provinces that we can forget that myth. I don’t see how insulting people mean you’re better… make your own conclusion…

2) The language comments saying that Quebecers think there French but don’t even speak it right. Well the Mexican speak Spanish… but it’s not the same as Spain. English Canadians and Americans say their English and jet it does differ a hole lot from England. So when Quebecers say they’re French, they are talking about the language they use. Just like you say you’re English and you’re not speaking it like the English. Quebecers would never say they are French to say it as in France, and if you don’t get that by now…

3) Thinking because a country or province speak a different language that they can’t trade… well isn’t that a bite narrow minded. What would do the world if they could trade only with the nations that speak the same language…

4) I believe the majority of Quebecers only wants to be able to administer their province more, as a lot of other provinces do… so I read.

5) As for Canadian being nicer then the American, I don’t think so. I think the * nice* factor diminishes in big towns no matter what country you’re from.

6) or as being nationalist or separatist… One of the basic human needs is the feeling belonging to a group. This is human nature for we are social Beings. To define a group from others, to make people patriotic of that group, you need to do many things like: find your differences, find another group to compete with, find a group to hate or and fear. Great leaders know this and play on these traits. If you don’t have that in a group, people will start making smaller group to obtain those things… Humans need to play out the *survival off the fitess*, this is an innate (inborn) trait.


Why do some thinks Quebecers can’t have their own healthcare without the feds? The money they put into taxes for the feds will just be redistributed in that manner.

I personally love Canada and naturally Quebec for I live on the south shore of Montreal.

Maybe we will get to 10 pages… I think we can do it without the insults... just lift a delicate subject in the matter…

If Quebec left Canada, that would be sad. I mean, think about it. Quebec, while large and populous, wouldnt last long. Does it have an army? No. Would someone train the army? No. Does it have gillions of things to sell? No. Does it have alot of allies? No. Would the U.S. Ally with them? Hell no.

If I were From Quebec and i wanted to leave, i wouldnt start a Free Quebec. I'd join France. I mean, France is moderatly rich, France and Quebec are similar, Both sides would gain something, France would be right next to the U.S., Trade with the U.S. would increase, the French would have a launching pad for North American Operations, It would be larger, and much more.

Of course, I'm an American and i know little or nothing about Quebec, so im just saying this from the "Well if they stay they'll be pissed, if they start their own country they'd be screwed, so why dont they join france?" theory.

P.S. Sorry if this post sux. I have a splitting headaches, my nose is runny, and im tired.

Well for the army... There's a lot of quebecers in the canadian army... they would just be in the quebec army... And we do have a lot military in high positions... as for the equipement... canadian equiment suck anyway... sorry but it does...

My Bro is on a student visa...he asked for a "Work permit"

But they are yet to give him anything.....

Iztatepopotla...you must have a good Immigration Lawyer...wanna share?

I didn't say they were quick. They take their own very dear time and there really is no telling how long it will take, as it varies a lot from case to case and place to place. Hiring a lawyer wouldn't help much, well, it would help the lawyer.

Well for the army... There's a lot of quebecers in the canadian army... they would just be in the quebec army... And we do have a lot military in high positions... as for the equipement... canadian equiment suck anyway... sorry but it does...

Lol!

Anyhoo, their army wouldn't last long anyway. They probably wouldn't have the infrustructure.

Besides, the Quebecians would probably "Purge" the army of all teh people who had "collaborated" with the English-speakers, so only a bunch of idiotic, but influential, Quebecians would have power.

Once again, im just making these assesments based on what has happend to other countries.

Once again, im just making these assesments based on what has happend to other countries.
I don't know, Lightning, you may want to take a look at Checoslovaquia for an example of a peaceful and relatively successful separation.

Anyway, I don't think a separation would be good for Quebec because it would be much better for them to have the full backing of Canada's resources and economy for international negotiations and such.

I don't know, Lightning, you may want to take a look at Checoslovaquia for an example of a peaceful and relatively successful separation.

Anyway, I don't think a separation would be good for Quebec because it would be much better for them to have the full backing of Canada's resources and economy for international negotiations and such.

Yeah... but first The Czechs were invaded by Nazis and Communists :/

If they WERE to separate, it would be wise to join France. That would increase the power of france, therefor increase the power of Quebec. Plus both "frances" would be re-united and they'd both be happy.

ok i see lightning you do not know quebec... we have the infrastructure, we have bagotville, st-jean, long-point and more...

And by the way... the army is not a priority for canadian... for quebecers neither. You can see that in our sub, helicopter, new uniformes (inflamables), and lack of new technologie. We are more off a peacefull kind.

We would NEVER joint with France... we are FAR TOO much different in everything. If Quebecers want to separates.. it's not to go under another culture again.

And in no way my coments mee I want to separate.

Proving that a) you've never been to Atlantic Canada, b) you don't actually follow Canadian political decisions, and c) you have a problem with your caps-lock key.

I can't help you with the first two, but for the third might I suggest banging your keyboard against your forehead repeatedly until the problem corrects itself.

I for one hope our Northern neighbors, never have a civil war. I like Canada as it is. And Generally Canadians are viewed as nice people.

ok i see lightning you do not know quebec... we have the infrastructure, we have bagotville, st-jean, long-point and more...

And by the way... the army is not a priority for canadians... or for quebecers neither. You can see that in our sub, helicopter, new uniforms (inflamables), and lack of new technology. We are more off a peaceful kind.

We would NEVER join with France... we are FAR TOO much different in everything. If Quebecers want to separate, it's not to go under another culture again.

And in no way do my coments mean I want to separate.

I meant MILITARY Infrastructure!

Anyhoo, i meant that if Quebec wanted to not go under into anarchy, poverty, and be jus tlike Somalia, they'd better join with france. Alone, Quebec is SERIOUSLY Screwed!

¡Dios Mio! (thats Spanish, BTW)

when i say bagotville, st-jean and longue point i'm talkinf about infrastructres.....

it is the 2nd time i see this thread.
the 1st time i didnt want to go into it as i ve heard enough about it through the 8years i ve been here....

But, today it different...

1) yes I am Canadian; yes i live in the province of Quebec

2) I am a real french from France and born there.

3) I have nothing against anglophon canadian neither do i have anything against francophon canadian

-----------------

4) say francophon canadian because in facts... they aint french.
they speak french but in their own way...bcs their language havent been evoluating at the same speed in history (i wont get into details)

5) i wouldnt like quebec to split bcs i think canada is good as it is.

6) i doubt that quebec will ever really get their independance as more foreigner being canadian vote no to separation.


7) i wont argu about most of the things that been written bcs they are mostly true..

8) i think its a shame canada is not whole bilangual
9) canada is a pacifist country they rather spend money in their ppl than army etc. proof: they have reservists army mostly (which i think is a lure)

10) ilove my country andmyprovince, Montreal is the best city in my eyes.

11) cold sux.

12) I would like to know whats a: "Québec's culture" in details... please spare me the stereotypes.
13) i would really hate to end up as a USA's state. :headbang:

14) canada please stick together...all thoses grudges are our grand parernts stories i know we can make even a greater futur for canada quebec included and nunavut too LOL

conclusion: no civil war is to be made...or happening as quebecers are pacifist

they yeal for riights and all but if i were in their situation and really would havewanted a split a long time ago i would have made a revolution... :rolleyes:

So you can remained rooted in your negativity or you can grasp the significant positive move forward that was accomplished by the Premiers and the Prime Minister.


Actually, despite Martin's fabulous *deal* the hospital in my town is undergoing cutbacks, as are other hospitals in the province of Ontario. This has absolutely nothing to do with my negativity.

The fact that this *deal* will result in increased user fees and higher premiums also has nothing to do with my negativity.

The fact that health care costs are rising faster than government revenues, thereby rendering the *deal* unsustainable, has nothing to do with my negativity.

Let's do the math, shall we?

Cutbacks + increased user fees + higer premiums + inevitable failure = a positive move forward.

Oh wait, I know why it doesn't add up! I forgot to factor in my negativitiy!!!

I've come up with another way!

If Bill Gates were to come to Quebec after it declares independence and offer to donate over $100,000,000,000 so he could set up Microsoft there, Quebec would be SAVED! It would be the IT capital of the world, and that means big bucks. An Entire country of IT programmers. It would be the most technologically advanced, one of the richest, and one of the most important too! And it wouldnt need an army, seeing how it could use Virus' on any country it didn't like and bring its infrastructure CRASHING to the ground! Of course, Bill Gates would have to be made supreme dictator for life but, heh, its a small price to pay for keeping your national identity AND getting rich!

bump!