NationStates Jolt Archive

Which major group poses the largest threat to the idea of a world run by left wing ideas?

Statists.

The uneducated, starving, thirsting and diseased billions.

Neo-conservatives and their partners in PNAC!

Anyone who beleives they have all the answers or are all wise, right or left. Anyone inflexible in their opinions, stubborn in their beliefs and unable to accept when they are wrong. People who are more willing to push their ideals of morality on others (be it the neo-conservatives or the enviromental extremists) instead of accepting both that they may be wrong and that their veiws are not nessecarily truth. Extremism of any form, fanaticism of any type, and firm belief in anything.

And yes, I concider myself a lefty.

We are our greatest enemies. Until we become millitant, and realize how great a threat the conservatives we will be weak.

BTW, The world isn't run by leftists.

Capitalists aren't as bad as neo-Conservatives. I prefer socialism to capitalism, but I neo-Conservatives still drive me INSANE!!!

Librarians that let their hair down and take off their glasses at closing time...

BTW, The world isn't run by leftists.
I never said it was

I think extremists are the most dangerous threat to society today; because, there views are so far delusioned that they can't be confronted with reason and logic and fact.

republikkkons, religious fundamentalists, stupid people

Statists.

Bravo!


(<-- not a "lefty," whatever that means)

The fact that the left finds it so very hard to get on with each other...

The fact that the left finds it so very hard to get on with each other...
It's ridiculous the number of different seperate socialist/communist groups we have in England. If they united they may be able to get a decent chunk of the votes now that labour has sold it's fucking soul

Bush and his Ilk of conservative spawn.

Mostly religion. In particular, fundamentalists, Radical Islamic or Evangelical Christians.

Other than that, economic disagreements shouldn't be too huge a problem, at least both sides want the same things, right? More jobs, better standard of living, economic prosperity...

However, when it comes to social issues and religious views on it, there can be no agreement.

Corporations, obviously.

This is so obvious, I can't believe it took until the 16th post forsomeone to come up with this.

Remember, without excessive corporate power there would be no neocons. Or at least none in power.

Any religion that includes among its membership the title 'Pastor'. I don't know what it is about Pastors, but they seem much more threatening than regular priests.

The extreme left, especially the commies. The conservatives managed to free themselves from the fascists during WWII, giving them more credibility with the centre; our failure to do the same (by freeing ourselves from Marxism) costs us dearly - most centrists like choice, and would appreciate having a sane left wing option.
Guys, Marxism is *dead*. And good riddance. The Left doesn't need his archaic beliefs.

Also, it's time the Left looked seriously at encouraging the Religious Left. "Feed the hungry(check), Heal the sick(check), preach the gospel(ooh, education)" - Christianity should be closely allied with the Left, but the ongoing anti-religious propoganda that Marx and friends have infected the Left with means that a few empty noises on 'family values' has gained the Right the support of the Westrn world's largest religion. This is bad, guys!

Which major group poses the largest threat to the idea of a world run by left wing ideas?

whoops - I thought this was for left-handed people. My mistake.

I voted Other.
The religious right-wing.
They're faith is so great that mere facts will not shake it, and they always know how to turn their faith into a weapon.

Corporations, obviously.

This is so obvious, I can't believe it took until the 16th post forsomeone to come up with this.

Remember, without excessive corporate power there would be no neocons. Or at least none in power.


Corporation = public company

Sorry, couldn't help myself

The extreme left, especially the commies. The conservatives managed to free themselves from the fascists during WWII, giving them more credibility with the centre; our failure to do the same (by freeing ourselves from Marxism) costs us dearly - most centrists like choice, and would appreciate having a sane left wing option.
Guys, Marxism is *dead*. And good riddance. The Left doesn't need his archaic beliefs.

Also, it's time the Left looked seriously at encouraging the Religious Left. "Feed the hungry(check), Heal the sick(check), preach the gospel(ooh, education)" - Christianity should be closely allied with the Left, but the ongoing anti-religious propoganda that Marx and friends have infected the Left with means that a few empty noises on 'family values' has gained the Right the support of the Westrn world's largest religion. This is bad, guys!

You may be right on communism/Marxism...although the welfare state mix of capitalism and socialism is close enough to the center for most people to stomach.

However, the idea of a Religious Left would never happen. The major religions of the world are not against liberalism because of Marx's and Stalin's atheism, but because religion's so-called values are inherently anti-liberal. The left would have to sell out, give up everything they believe in regarding tolerance to win back the Religious Right.

We would have to start bashing gays, oppose abortion, support capital punishment, oppose emergency contraception for teens, everything we've worked so hard for.

And if you want to talk world politics, the Talibans and ayatollahs would NEVER accept anything even remotely close to a free society.

The zealots have forever aligned themselves with the right. And good riddance.

However, the idea of a Religious Left would never happen. The major religions of the world are not against liberalism because of Marx's and Stalin's atheism, but because religion's so-called values are inherently anti-liberal. The left would have to sell out, give up everything they believe in regarding tolerance to win back the Religious Right.
{waves} Hello, over here! In the 21st Century! Have a look at the 20th on your way through! And the late 19th!
What do you think the Salvation Army is, if not Religious Left? The Methodists? The Quakers?
The only thing stopping the Religious Left from thriving is the ongoing hatred of the secular Left. *Nothing else* And the Religious Left can fight the Religious Right on it's own terms - fighting with scripture and authority.


We would have to start bashing gays, oppose abortion, support capital punishment, oppose emergency contraception for teens, everything we've worked so hard for.
No....you believe this becuase you don't have a religiously educated ally providing you with arguments for Left wing policies.
Remember 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'? It's context is interesting - if you attack a pregnant woman and cause a miscarriage, then whatever damamge you do to her get done to you. Which means that the Biblical punishment for performing an abortion is - zip. Unless the operation is botched - which we'd want investigated by medical experts anyway.
And, this weakens the death penalty argument - it only applies for killing a pregnant woman: which is pretty extreme, and probably deserves the death penalty.
And I will point out that many left-wingers support the death penalty.

And if you want to talk world politics, the Talibans and ayatollahs would NEVER accept anything even remotely close to a free society.
Granted - but Mohammad would have.

The zealots have forever aligned themselves with the right. And good riddance.
Oh well {waves good bye, and wanders off to vote Conservative}

We would have to start bashing gays, oppose abortion, support capital punishment, oppose emergency contraception for teens, everything we've worked so hard for.

I don't think we would.
The laws about gays are archaic and really should be viewed as a part of a different religion- the christianity of over a thousand years ago.
Name me one passage in the bible that says abortion and contraceptives are the tools of satan
No human being has the right to take the life of another. When Jesus said to "love your enemies" I'm pretty sure he probably meant we shouldn't kill them. Let's also not forget the idea that all those who draw the sword, will die by the sword.
Finally, have you ever heard of the beattitudes? If they aren't left wing then I don't know what is...

Totalitarian anything.

Bravo!


(<-- not a "lefty," whatever that means)
Well, neigther am I completely.

why are communists in this list?
communists are the most leftish of everything...
even if it is totalitarian

Hello all, I'm new to the forums so be gentle ok?
I personally think the thing that would be most lightly to destroy a 'Left Wing Utopia' would be ignorance, I mean people in general don't want to take responsibility for things, let alone themselves.
I think that people would be swayed by many things, such as low taxes and son't forget that most Left Wing states require the adverage person to take responsibility and work hard which our society at present seems to want to stamp under-foot with so much resource being used to make people believe that they don't have to take responsibility.

However, the idea of a Religious Left would never happen. The major religions of the world are not against liberalism because of Marx's and Stalin's atheism, but because religion's so-called values are inherently anti-liberal. The left would have to sell out, give up everything they believe in regarding tolerance to win back the Religious Right.

Stalin isn't a good example as he wasn't a true Communist and so is a poor respresentation of Left Wing leader. He ruled under a heavily altered dictatorial Communism.
But I liked your points.

These however are merely my interpretations and are completely fallible, please don't totally overthrow my statements.

-Yours Sincerely Ross

why are communists in this list?
communists are the most leftish of everything...
even if it is totalitarian

because totalitarian communists/stalinists/whatever have consistently implemented a system where disagreeing with the party rulers leads to you being imprisoned or executed. i know that i am a member of the group that has historically been 2nd or 3rd on the list for getting rounded up and shot, and i'm one of the farthest left people here. so screw those bastards.

why are communists in this list?
communists are the most leftish of everything...
even if it is totalitarian
Alot of people are turned off the idea of turning to socialism/communism because of the actions of this authoritarian minority. Stupid bolshevik bastards ruin it for the progressives amongst us

Abba

Abba
Damn swede pop group mofos

However, the idea of a Religious Left would never happen. The major religions of the world are not against liberalism because of Marx's and Stalin's atheism, but because religion's so-called values are inherently anti-liberal. The left would have to sell out, give up everything they believe in regarding tolerance to win back the Religious Right.

firstly, liberalism isn't left. secondly, the religious right's claim to being the one true interpretation of christianity is completely and totally wrong (and that's being kind and generous to them). or maybe i missed the part of the new testament where jesus said "blessed are the war-makers" and "blessed are those driven by the love of money" and "truly, it is ridiculously easy for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven - unlike for those poor people who are failures as human beings and unworthy of my love" and the ever popular "hey all you hucksters and con-men, you money changers and userers, come on down to my father's house to make yourselves rich".

it is trivially easy to have a christian left interpretation of things.

I'm suprised Nazis arent seen as the greatest threat. In pre-fascist Italy the socialists were the biggest party until the fascists started beating the shit out of them. The Weimark (sp?) government was pretty liberal until the Nazis managed to overthrow it. In China the spread of communism was slowed by the Nationalists. In Spain the ideas of socialism were crushed by Hitler's bitch Franco. Even now the British Nazi (sorry, NATIONAL) party is overtaking the greens in the polls and the Xenophobic UKIP is doing pretty damn well to become one of the new major powers

BUMP.

Thats right. I bumped it.

Neo-cons are obviously the major threat today. Though followed shortly by the Village People.

The USA. Of course.

why are communists in this list?
communists are the most leftish of everything...
even if it is totalitarian
For the same reason that a list asking 'what is the greatest threat to conservative politics' would include fascism. Because the raving pschotic extremists destroy support and make it harder to recruit, as more rational groups are tarred with the same brush.
The right can never be a threat to the left - the more powerful they get, the distasteful they become. Ditto the left is never actually a threat to the right: both groups are fighting an internal war, and victory goes to the side which most successfully slaps down it's own parasites.
Hmm, that's an oversimplification. Still, if you want a more detailed explanation, go read Hegel.

Moderate conservatives. Not corporations, not nazis, not fascists. Moderates are the strongest force any ideology can have, since not many people would listen to an extremist.

{waves} Hello, over here! In the 21st Century! Have a look at the 20th on your way through! And the late 19th!
What do you think the Salvation Army is, if not Religious Left? The Methodists? The Quakers?

Maybe I have a narrow view of religious people, or maybe I only notice the radicals who murder abortion doctors and bomb abortion clinics, tie gays to fences and beat them to death, etc. Maybe I only hear about the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons. You may be right.

The only thing stopping the Religious Left from thriving is the ongoing hatred of the secular Left. *Nothing else* And the Religious Left can fight the Religious Right on it's own terms - fighting with scripture and authority.

This I disagree. The Religious Left has not thrived, not just because the secular left hates them, but because they too hate the secular left. The secular left's views on sexuality alone are enough to completely turn away religious folk.

No....you believe this becuase you don't have a religiously educated ally providing you with arguments for Left wing policies.

Correct. All the religious folk I know are right wing.

Remember 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'? It's context is interesting - if you attack a pregnant woman and cause a miscarriage, then whatever damamge you do to her get done to you. Which means that the Biblical punishment for performing an abortion is - zip. Unless the operation is botched - which we'd want investigated by medical experts anyway.
And, this weakens the death penalty argument - it only applies for killing a pregnant woman: which is pretty extreme, and probably deserves the death penalty.
And I will point out that many left-wingers support the death penalty.

Far fewer left wingers support the death penalty than right wingers. No true liberal supports state-sponsored murder.

Granted - but Mohammad would have.

Jesus too probably. Christians lost the message pretty quickly after his death, IMO.

Oh well {waves good bye, and wanders off to vote Conservative}

Can you do me a favor and vote for Peroutka of the Constitution Party instead of Bush? :D

Maybe I have a narrow view of religious people, or maybe I only notice the radicals who murder abortion doctors and bomb abortion clinics, tie gays to fences and beat them to death, etc. Maybe I only hear about the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons. You may be right.
It's the problem with relying on the media - they prefer to show the rabble - of every side. Certainly the distrust religious people have of athiests is driven by th elunatics in North Korea etc.

This I disagree. The Religious Left has not thrived, not just because the secular left hates them, but because they too hate the secular left. The secular left's views on sexuality alone are enough to completely turn away religious folk.
That the hatred is mutual I won't disagree with. That doesn't mean an alliance is impossible. For the example of sexuality: although you will always consider Christain views on sexuality strange, basic freedom of religion means that large numbers of Christians would be horrified if you were forced to play by rules we accept voluntarily.


Far fewer left wingers support the death penalty than right wingers. No true liberal supports state-sponsored murder.
'true liberals' are only one branch of the left. Also, all 'liberal' really means - according to the dictionary - that what you want is change to be done legally rather tha by bloody revolution. Getting back to the point - many Christians (and Jews, and Buddhists, and..) are opposed to the death penalty. An alliance here would be useful, yes?



Jesus too probably. Christians lost the message pretty quickly after his death, IMO.
More accurately, still hasn't got it. The Reformation helped, and I think the current habit of refusing to belong to a specific denomination, but instead being non-denominational, is progress. [shrugs] You can't mature a religion overnight. Judaism is about 6000 years old, Hinduism older still - give Christinaity another millennia or three to grow up in and all should be well.

Can you do me a favor and vote for Peroutka of the Constitution Party instead of Bush? :D
If I was an American! No, I was one of the decreasing number of Australians who voted a left wing candidate last weekend. I'm all talk when it comes to threats! :D