NationStates Jolt Archive

Did any one else catch this? Bush implied that Canada was the third world, despite the fact that Canada has a higher standard of living, despite that Canada has universal health care, despite the fact that Canada has a lower infant mortality rate, despite the fact that Canada's seniors live longer then that of the USA.. Canada is the third world? Then wouldn't that make the USA the 4th world?

Discuss

Well, being third world has nothing to do with poverty, technically.

The USA is clearly a top class nation, because you only measure it by how well the richest people live!
Surely you must know this, Steph.

BUSH: And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world.

I think he was talking about third-world drug companies shipping drugs into Canada, repackaging them as Canadian drugs and sending them into USA. But as usual he didn't express himself very well.

Yep, what Bungeria said.

BUSH: And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world.

I think he was talking about third-world drug companies shipping drugs into Canada, repackaging them as Canadian drugs and sending them into USA. But as usual he didn't express himself very well.

And yet all our drugs say "Made in the USA" If I know that, then surely Bush does, he's f*cking with you... he expects you to not know better.. shame on him!

I think he was talking about third-world drug companies shipping drugs into Canada, repackaging them as Canadian drugs and sending them into USA. But as usual he didn't express himself very well.
For context, this was a response to why we don't know drugs, made in America and shipped to Canada, are safe.

So, he could be implying that Canada is Third World, that the US is Third world, that we knowingly ship unsafe drugs to Third-World nations, or (by far the most likely) that he simply wasn't paying attention to the question.

I'm Swedish and I think that you can say that USA is more of a third world country then Canada because of the poverty and segregation. But of course both countries are in reality both part of the small elite of rich countries in the world. The only big problem with Canada is the cold (getting enough tired of it in Sweden).
But prespective drugs is also a intresting subjet just for example the comparision between of mutch the drug companies spend on research and how much they spend on marketing and sales.

And yet all our drugs say "Made in the USA" If I know that, then surely Bush does, he's f*cking with you... he expects you to not know better.. shame on him!

Another unbiased op-ed piece by steph.

For context, this was a response to why we don't know drugs, made in America and shipped to Canada, are safe.

So, he could be implying that Canada is Third World, that the US is Third world, that we knowingly ship unsafe drugs to Third-World nations, or (by far the most likely) that he simply wasn't paying attention to the question.
That annoys me. The American government says that they don't know if Canadian drugs are safe, when they obviously do, and they're just trying to get money to drug companies.

Another unbiased op-ed piece by steph.

Yeah.

Now that I see the actual quote, I fail to see how you could construe that as him calling Canada "third-world."

don't listen to bush he's probably still on dope :p

I'm Swedish and I think that you can say that USA is more of a third world country then Canada because of the poverty and segregation. But of course both countries are in reality both part of the small elite of rich countries in the world. The only big problem with Canada is the cold (getting enough tired of it in Sweden).
But prespective drugs is also a intresting subjet just for example the comparision between of mutch the drug companies spend on research and how much they spend on marketing and sales.

You'd be suprised that Canada can actually get fairly hot. In the Okanagan Valley, where I live. It looks like Greece. It also gets like 30-35 degree summers.

You'd be suprised that Canada can actually get fairly hot. In the Okanagan Valley, where I live. It looks like Greece. It also gets like 30-35 degree summers. Sounds like Sweden. This summer was pretty crap, but getting 30-35 degrees for a few days or even a week or two isn't exactly unknown is Sweden either.

Its the -10 degrees in winter and the cold autums which are the clinchers.

Did any one else catch this? Bush implied that Canada was the third world, despite the fact that Canada has a higher standard of living, despite that Canada has universal health care, despite the fact that Canada has a lower infant mortality rate, despite the fact that Canada's seniors live longer then that of the USA.. Canada is the third world? Then wouldn't that make the USA the 4th world?

Discuss

Canada is third world. Our economy is based in the large part on external ownership by multi-national corporations. If one were to subtract from our exports all of that by multinationals, the exports by Canadian companies is pitifully low. This is significant because it means that the actually capital being produced by Canadian labour is pocketed by non-Canadians. Sure, we have wages that go into our economy, but when you consider those wages turn back over to multi-nationals in the form of profit, how much is actually staying here? Not much. These multinationals I speak of are primarily American.

If (and there is precident for this, think back to the seventies), these companies decided to pull their branch plants out of Canada because they found cheaper labour elsewhere (say, in Africa), Canada would be up sh** creek without a paddle. Instant recession.

What Canada needs to do is nationalise our resources (much are owned by other countries, ie. the States), nationalise our banks, and beef up our military to protect our borders from the US invasion that will happen shortly after. I imagine they would be pretty ticked if a practice they had been profitting from for over one hundred years was suddenly outlawed.

What is very important to realise is that as long as NAFTA and the WTO are in place Canada is screwed. That will be the case as long as the Liberal or Conservative parties are allowed to remain in power.

Sounds like Sweden. This summer was pretty crap, but getting 30-35 degrees for a few days or even a week or two isn't exactly unknown is Sweden either.

Its the -10 degrees in winter and the cold autums which are the clinchers.

In Saskatchewan (the prairies) it can be over thirty for the two months, not just two weeks. Sure, our winters are cold (it can -30C for weeks in a row), but the beautiful summers with few insects make up for it.

Canada is third world. Our economy is based in the large part on external ownership by multi-national corporations. If one were to subtract from our exports all of that by multinationals, the exports by Canadian companies is pitifully low. This is significant because it means that the actually capital being produced by Canadian labour is pocketed by non-Canadians. Sure, we have wages that go into our economy, but when you consider those wages turn back over to multi-nationals in the form of profit, how much is actually staying here? Not much. These multinationals I speak of are primarily American. If they are primarily American (by this I presume USA), they can't be multinationals. Thats sort of the defenition of a multinational.

This is significant because it means that the actually capital being produced by Canadian labour is pocketed by non-Canadians. Sure, we have wages that go into our economy, but when you consider those wages turn back over to multi-nationals in the form of profit, how much is actually staying here? Not much. These multinationals I speak of are primarily American.


Wow. Let's see if I can bring you down to earth.

1 - Profits made in Canada are reinvested in Canada
2 - Anyone can be an owner of an American based multi-national (it's called stock)
3 - Where a company is headquartered is irrelevant
4 - Do you want Canada to emulate Cuba?

"Third world" is old terminology anyway. They're now called "Developed" and "Developing" nations, or if you really want to be technical "More Economically Developed" and "Less Economically Developed".

Did any one else catch this? Bush implied that Canada was the third world, despite the fact that Canada has a higher standard of living, despite that Canada has universal health care, despite the fact that Canada has a lower infant mortality rate, despite the fact that Canada's seniors live longer then that of the USA.. Canada is the third world? Then wouldn't that make the USA the 4th world?

Discuss

yeah. i caught that. pretty sad. canada is so peacful.... :rolleyes:

Our drugs in Canada are made by the same companies, in the same factories and to the same standards as American drugs. The difference is, up here, our government regulates the drug industry so that Pfizer can't extort money out of senior citizens. George W Bush is nothing more than a corporate muppet and I truly hope that a majority of Americans realize that when they hit the polls in November. I severly doubt it though.

damn third-world canadians. they should assmiliate with the united states of america.

"Third world" is old terminology anyway. They're now called "Developed" and "Developing" nations, or if you really want to be technical "More Economically Developed" and "Less Economically Developed". I have never used the term "less economically developed country" this side of an ecnomic essay. Even in class we used the term "third world country" for its simplicity, and the fact that it is four syllables as opposed to thirteen.

Canada is third world.

May I suggest you stop using drugs?

I have never used the term "less economically developed country" this side of an ecnomic essay. Even in class we used the term "third world country" for its simplicity, and the fact that it is four syllables as opposed to thirteen.

Well that's what I learnt in geography. It probably differs depending on the nation your school is in.

BUSH: And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world.

I think he was talking about third-world drug companies shipping drugs into Canada, repackaging them as Canadian drugs and sending them into USA. But as usual he didn't express himself very well.
you mean they are going to be packing them as american drugs because uhh thats what canada uses, the american drug companies ship drugs to canada and sells them for a fraction of what ti costs here.

Well that's what I learnt in geography. It probably differs depending on the nation your school is in. Oh we were taught it alright, we just never used it 'cause it was such a horrible mouthfull and there is no distinction between it and the less PC but shorter "third world" term. Its like saying "USA" instead of "United Stated of America" all the time.

The USA is clearly a top class nation, because you only measure it by how well the richest people live!
Surely you must know this, Steph.

So Saudi Arabia is a 'top class nation' as you call it? Thier royal family has millions if not billions, but they're not categorized as a first world country. It's based on the average standard of living of the country's residents.

Well, you know ... the rampant poverty and disease, the fly covered children sitting malnourished outside their pathetic huts, the warlords overseeing everything and ensuring an utter lack of political freedoms ...

The accents are quaint and tourists love the local folk dances.

Oh wait ... did you say Canada? I was thinking about the Ozarks ...

Am I correct in thinking that if we voted the Conservative Party into power, that we would be absorbed into the USA?

I would love to see how Bush would react if one were to say the US was third world because we don't employ some of the universal treatments the rest of the world, such as Canada, employs in their countries to solve problems we have here (such as healthcare and prescription drugs).

So Saudi Arabia is a 'top class nation' as you call it? Thier royal family has millions if not billions, but they're not categorized as a first world country. It's based on the average standard of living of the country's residents.
I know it wasn't actually there, but there was an implied [/sarcasm] on Myrth's post.

And yet all our drugs say "Made in the USA" If I know that, then surely Bush does, he's f*cking with you... he expects you to not know better.. shame on him!
That is why it is called REimportation.

That is why it is called REimportation.

Yeah, we make the drugs, the Canadian govt buys 'em, and then we buy them back at half the price. Suckers.

Canada is third world. Our economy is based in the large part on external ownership by multi-national corporations. If one were to subtract from our exports all of that by multinationals, the exports by Canadian companies is pitifully low. This is significant because it means that the actually capital being produced by Canadian labour is pocketed by non-Canadians. Sure, we have wages that go into our economy, but when you consider those wages turn back over to multi-nationals in the form of profit, how much is actually staying here? Not much. These multinationals I speak of are primarily American.

If (and there is precident for this, think back to the seventies), these companies decided to pull their branch plants out of Canada because they found cheaper labour elsewhere (say, in Africa), Canada would be up sh** creek without a paddle. Instant recession.

What Canada needs to do is nationalise our resources (much are owned by other countries, ie. the States), nationalise our banks, and beef up our military to protect our borders from the US invasion that will happen shortly after. I imagine they would be pretty ticked if a practice they had been profitting from for over one hundred years was suddenly outlawed.

What is very important to realise is that as long as NAFTA and the WTO are in place Canada is screwed. That will be the case as long as the Liberal or Conservative parties are allowed to remain in power.

If I'm not mistaken the majority of the foreign countries that own Canadian businesses are the United States.

Leave aside Bush's point about defective drugs being DISGUISED as Canadian, Remember, most of these people are ordering by phone or the internet. It would be simplicity in itself for some unscrupous company to take advantage of this.

Important question: What is going to happen when there are no longer any consumers paying for the R&D costs of these drug companies?

The countries with cheap drugs are able to do that because they only pay a little more than the PRODUCTION costs of the drugs. Are you people who advocate re importation comfortable with the idea of less money going into the development of new drugs?

Personally, I am all for re importation. I like it because it will force drug companies to make a choice. Either they will stop coming up with new drugs or they will force everyone to pay more. As it stands, US citizens bear the lions share of R&D costs, and that just isnt fair.

Leave aside Bush's point about defective drugs being DISGUISED as Canadian, Remember, most of these people are ordering by phone or the internet. It would be simplicity in itself for some unscrupous company to take advantage of this.


Because there are no unscrupulous internet drug companies in the US? If anything, the current setup makes it MORE likely that people will be taken advantage of. Allowing importation from properly licenced and regulated companies in Canada removes the threat while saving the money.

Important question: What is going to happen when there are no longer any consumers paying for the R&D costs of these drug companies?


Actually, this is already the case. The bulk of development costs is covered by federal dollars these days. Look, for example, at stem cell research. It wan't moving forward not just because of any legal issues to allow or disallow it but rather because it needed Federal funding.

The countries with cheap drugs are able to do that because they only pay a little more than the PRODUCTION costs of the drugs. Are you people who advocate re importation comfortable with the idea of less money going into the development of new drugs?

That is patently untrue else no drugs in Canada would ever cost more than a few cents (at most a buck or two) per pill. Trust me - that is not the case. And it's odd though, isn't it, that Canadian pharmacutical companies still manage to develop drugs and release them and turn a profit....? If things really were as you suggest then that would be impossible. It would certainly be impossible for Canada to have grown their ranking in the world to becoming second in number of biotech companies, and third for biotech revenues generated. (http://www.pharmahorizons.com/BIOTECanada%20State%20of%20the%20Industry%202003_Eng%20040114.pdf)

Personally, I am all for re importation. I like it because it will force drug companies to make a choice. Either they will stop coming up with new drugs or they will force everyone to pay more. As it stands, US citizens bear the lions share of R&D costs, and that just isnt fair.

Actually, what you bear is the lion's share of profits. And no -it's not fair. But somebody has to pay for all those ads to convince you to go and tell your doctor that you know more than him regarding what treatment will work best for you.....

shame on him!
Then don't fool...fool.......don't fool him again.

Actually, this is already the case. The bulk of development costs is covered by federal dollars these days. Look, for example, at stem cell research. It wan't moving forward not just because of any legal issues to allow or disallow it but rather because it needed Federal funding.



That is patently untrue else no drugs in Canada would ever cost more than a few cents (at most a buck or two) per pill. Trust me - that is not the case. And it's odd though, isn't it, that Canadian pharmacutical companies still manage to develop drugs and release them and turn a profit....? If things really were as you suggest then that would be impossible. It would certainly be impossible for Canada to have grown their ranking in the world to becoming second in number of biotech companies, and third for biotech revenues generated. (http://www.pharmahorizons.com/BIOTECanada%20State%20of%20the%20Industry%202003_Eng%20040114.pdf)



Actually, what you bear is the lion's share of profits. And no -it's not fair. But somebody has to pay for all those ads to convince you to go and tell your doctor that you know more than him regarding what treatment will work best for you.....

here is an study from the cato institute. Look to page 9-11 for information on costs and who bears them.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa475.pdf

Wow. Let's see if I can bring you down to earth.

1 - Profits made in Canada are reinvested in Canada
2 - Anyone can be an owner of an American based multi-national (it's called stock)
3 - Where a company is headquartered is irrelevant
4 - Do you want Canada to emulate Cuba?

Perhaps you should take a course in the history of Canadian industrialisation...In the meantime, read the books Dismantling a Nation: the Transition to Corporate Rule in Canada by Stephen McBride and John Shields, Not for Export by Glen Williams, and Open for Business by Gordon Laxer. These are three enlightening reads that illustrate how capital produced in Canada is not ending up in the hands of Canadians.

If I'm not mistaken the majority of the foreign countries that own Canadian businesses are the United States.
I believe I mentioned that.

So Saudi Arabia is a 'top class nation' as you call it? Thier royal family has millions if not billions, but they're not categorized as a first world country. It's based on the average standard of living of the country's residents.
Maybe I missed something, but my understanding is that the standard of living in Saudi Arabia is quite high materially. I understood this was the primary reason for importing labour for undesired employment fields such as domestic work. :confused:

Although admittedly the only people I have known from Saudi Arabia were wealthy enough to travel to the other side of the world, so in retrospect, I guess their lifestyle might not have been entirely representive of the 'average person's standard of living'...

Did any one else catch this? Bush implied that Canada was the third world, despite the fact that Canada has a higher standard of living, despite that Canada has universal health care, despite the fact that Canada has a lower infant mortality rate, despite the fact that Canada's seniors live longer then that of the USA.. Canada is the third world? Then wouldn't that make the USA the 4th world?

Discuss
Relax Steph, your forgetting that this is the same man who stole our elections away from us and lied his way into a war he cannot lie himself out of.

And that kinda hurt.