NationStates Jolt Archive

Does anyone know anything about the Theban-Spartan conflict? If so, what were the causes and the outcome? I don't really need the details of the conflict (although it wouldn't hurt), just some of the main causes and the outcome of the conflict (who won, the results, etc.). Thanks for your time!

After the Spartans defeated Athens in the Peloponesian War Sparta ruled the rest of the Greek states with an iron fist and installed puppet dictatorships over the conquered lands. The other Greeks resented Spartan rule and there were several failed rebellions against Sparta before Theban rebels finally defeated a Spartan army and restored democracy and self-determination to the Greek states. Sparta lost all of its power and land except for its holdings in Peloponnesus. The leader of the Thebans was the formidable statesman and general Epominondas. I'm not clear on the exact dates of any of this unfortunately.

After the Spartans defeated Athens in the Peloponesian War Sparta ruled the rest of the Greek states with an iron fist and installed puppet dictatorships over the conquered lands. The other Greeks resented Spartan rule and there were several failed rebellions against Sparta before Theban rebels finally defeated a Spartan army and restored democracy and self-determination to the Greek states. Sparta lost all of its power and land except for its holdings in Peloponnesus. The leader of the Thebans was the formidable statesman and general Epominondas. I'm not clear on the exact dates of any of this unfortunately.

Thanks a lot! (don't worry about the dates, they're not important)

You're a life saver. :)

Thebes took no part in the pelopennesian war between Athens and Sparta, and thus prospered during this period. However, thebes had taken no part in the persian wars and had lost considerable status due to its support of the persians. Nevertheless, because of spartan leniency in the aftermath, it was still considered a regional power and therefore a challenge to what the spartans considered their de facto status of "first in war, first in peace" postion in greek society. Primarily this was due to thebes position as the former leader of the Boetian league, but because Sparta viewed any greek polis that may embrace democracy as a threat to its traditional way of life - especially powerful ones. Remember Sparta had defeated athens during the pelopennesian conflict, and considered themselves the leading state in greek society, and therefore viewed askance democratic tendencies. Doubly so in large and well established cities.

To say that sparta ruled greece with an "iron hand" however is a mischaraterization. Spartan foreign policy was usually one of mercurail non-involvement. Nevertheless, if sparta percieved a threat to what they considered the tradtional oligarchy in neighborhood states or its new found complete hegemony, they would, if the opportunity arose to do so cheaply, intervene.

In 382 B.C.E a prominent member of the oligarch faction of Thebes, Leontiades, asked a nearby Spartan army commander to intervene in an internal Theban struggle. Phoebidas, the commander of the spartan force agreed but in turn he expected that Thebes, the traditional hegemon of the boetian league, would fall into the Spartan sphere of influence. From the spartan perspective such an opportunity was ideal. Placing the theban oligarchs in power would create a strong pro-spartan ally and theoretically ensure the regional supremecy of sparta without much effort.

This spartan backed coup occured during the tradtional theban celebration of Thesmophoria, where the women of the city celebrated the founding of the city. Because of this, no men were present in the citadel at this time and Phoebidas was able to achieve a quick and easy victory. After the spartan army seized control of the city, a ruthless supression of the city's democratic faction began.

As a result of Phoebidas's actions, and the resulting oppresion of Theban democrats by Leontiades, a group of thebans began to consider how best to liberate their city. In 378 b.c.e., after a great deal of plotting, a group of democrats who had been exiled to athens and returned and assinated the two theban oligarch kings. Notably during this revolt Epameinondas, a young theban democrat who later became their greatest general, was responsible for breaking open the city armory and arming the citizenry. This action facilitated the sucess of the theban revolution and without it the thebans would have been unable to drive the spartan garrison of one full lochoi out of the city.

After the spartans were driven from the city, the thebans consituted a phalanx unit known as the sacred band, or Ieros lochos, an elite unit of one full phalanx. This so-called sacred band later became instrumental in the battle of Tegyra, 375 b.c.e, where the thebans destroyed a spartan re-invasion force. Pelopidas, the theban commander used the terrain to his advantage, and in combination with agressive tactics and swift manoeuvering to a narrow pass, was able to defeat the spartans utterly and kill both of their commanders. (Strategoi I think)

Thebes greatest victory over the spartans came in 371 at the battle of Leuctra. Under the able command of Epameinondas, supra, the thebans were able to decimate the spatans in tradtional order of battle and finaly dispell the myth of spartan invincibality in open engagement. Interestingly in this battle the thebans reversed the traditional order of battle - strongest phalanx to the right weakest to the the left - and deliberately employed the theban phalanxes, the crack units of their allied forces, directly against the hitherto undefeated (in open field war) spartan lochoi. Theban courage, and an inovation in tactics with a far deeper phalanx (approx. 50 deep), resulted in a decisive victory. Henceforth Spartan military supremecy was no more.

Of note is that Epameinondas was an open homosexual, to the point he even refused to father any children. On his deathbed when he was asked: "How can you die without giving thebes daughters." he replied "My daughter to thebes is leuctra." Talk about gay empowerment. We could learn a thing or two.

Also Phillip of Macedon was a hostage to thebes during his early years. At this time he came under the tutelage of Epameinondas. Phillip was, of course, the father of the macedonian millitary, and set the stage for Alexander, the greatest, IMHO, general in history - even though he was a despicable human being.

Well, that's about all I can think of offhand. Plus I'm typing this while drunk and holding a conversation about credit cards. If there are any innaccuracies I'd love to hear about them, or if someone wlse has a different take also.

I hope it helps

Thebes took no part in the pelopennesian war between Athens and Sparta, and thus prospered during this period. However, thebes had taken no part in the persian wars and had lost considerable status due to its support of the persians. Nevertheless, because of spartan leniency in the aftermath, it was still considered a regional power and therefore a challenge to what the spartans considered their de facto status of "first in war, first in peace" postion in greek society. Primarily this was due to thebes position as the former leader of the Boetian league, but because Sparta viewed any greek polis that may embrace democracy as a threat to its traditional way of life - especially powerful ones. Remember Sparta had defeated athens during the pelopennesian conflict, and considered themselves the leading state in greek society, and therefore viewed askance democratic tendencies. Doubly so in large and well established cities.

To say that sparta ruled greece with an "iron hand" however is a mischaraterization. Spartan foreign policy was usually one of mercurail non-involvement. Nevertheless, if sparta percieved a threat to what they considered the tradtional oligarchy in neighborhood states or its new found complete hegemony, they would, if the opportunity arose to do so cheaply, intervene.

In 382 B.C.E a prominent member of the oligarch faction of Thebes, Leontiades, asked a nearby Spartan army commander to intervene in an internal Theban struggle. Phoebidas, the commander of the spartan force agreed but in turn he expected that Thebes, the traditional hegemon of the boetian league, would fall into the Spartan sphere of influence. From the spartan perspective such an opportunity was ideal. Placing the theban oligarchs in power would create a strong pro-spartan ally and theoretically ensure the regional supremecy of sparta without much effort.

This spartan backed coup occured during the tradtional theban celebration of Thesmophoria, where the women of the city celebrated the founding of the city. Because of this, no men were present in the citadel at this time and Phoebidas was able to achieve a quick and easy victory. After the spartan army seized control of the city, a ruthless supression of the city's democratic faction began.

As a result of Phoebidas's actions, and the resulting oppresion of Theban democrats by Leontiades, a group of thebans began to consider how best to liberate their city. In 378 b.c.e., after a great deal of plotting, a group of democrats who had been exiled to athens and returned and assinated the two theban oligarch kings. Notably during this revolt Epameinondas, a young theban democrat who later became their greatest general, was responsible for breaking open the city armory and arming the citizenry. This action facilitated the sucess of the theban revolution and without it the thebans would have been unable to drive the spartan garrison of one full lochoi out of the city.

After the spartans were driven from the city, the thebans consituted a phalanx unit known as the sacred band, or Ieros lochos, an elite unit of one full phalanx. This so-called sacred band later became instrumental in the battle of Tegyra, 375 b.c.e, where the thebans destroyed a spartan re-invasion force. Pelopidas, the theban commander used the terrain to his advantage, and in combination with agressive tactics and swift manoeuvering to a narrow pass, was able to defeat the spartans utterly and kill both of their commanders. (Strategoi I think)

Thebes greatest victory over the spartans came in 371 at the battle of Leuctra. Under the able command of Epameinondas, supra, the thebans were able to decimate the spatans in tradtional order of battle and finaly dispell the myth of spartan invincibality in open engagement. Interestingly in this battle the thebans reversed the traditional order of battle - strongest phalanx to the right weakest to the the left - and deliberately employed the theban phalanxes, the crack units of their allied forces, directly against the hitherto undefeated (in open field war) spartan lochoi. Theban courage, and an inovation in tactics with a far deeper phalanx (approx. 50 deep), resulted in a decisive victory. Henceforth Spartan military supremecy was no more.

Of note is that Epameinondas was an open homosexual, to the point he even refused to father any children. On his deathbed when he was asked: "How can you die without giving thebes daughters." he replied "My daughter to thebes is leuctra." Talk about gay empowerment. We could learn a thing or two.

Also Phillip of Macedon was a hostage to thebes during his early years. At this time he came under the tutelage of Epameinondas. Phillip was, of course, the father of the macedonian millitary, and set the stage for Alexander, the greatest, IMHO, general in history - even though he was a despicable human being.

Well, that's about all I can think of offhand. Plus I'm typing this while drunk and holding a conversation about credit cards. If there are any innaccuracies I'd love to hear about them, or if someone wlse has a different take also.

I hope it helps

Thank you very much! :)