NationStates Jolt Archive

I just have two questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Here are the questions:

What were some of the major factors of the Greek victory over the Persians?

What were the causes and outcome of the Theban-Spartan conflict?

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I just have two questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Here are the questions:

What were some of the major factors of the Greek victory over the Persians?

What were the causes and outcome of the Theban-Spartan conflict?

1. The battle of Thermopylae caused a great decline in the morale of the forces of Persia and allowed the Greeks to escape to fight another day. 300 Spartans held off 250,000 Persians for 2 days until they were betrayed. The Spartans under Leonidus killed approx 10,000 Persians before falling. The Greeks abandoned Athens and took to the sea where they later defeated the Persians in the battle of Salamis in 479 BC. The Greeks were fighting for an ideal that was foreign to the Persians......freedom.

Thanks, guys! :)

If there's ever any way I can repay your selfless generosity, please let me know! :p

Concerning the Theban-Spartan conflict, I believe a Theban official asked the nearby Spartan Army to attack Thebes and push the democrats out. Becuase of celebrations, the citadel contained no men in it, and the Spartan Army entered Thebes unopposed. The democrats were either executed or fled, mostly to Athens, from the Oligarchy which established itself. They attempted to get support from Athens, but finding little, they hatched a plot to retake the city themselves.

A small band of men snuck into Thebes, killed several high officials, and broke open the armories calling the people into rebellion. The Spartan garrison soon left for Sparta itself, and the Thebans later defeated the Spartans in battle (despite having half their numbers). After this, Thebes found itself empowered, an Sparta's main goal became to destroy Thebes, and four years later, at Luectra, they were again defeated by Thebes, and for some time, the mantle of Greek supercity passed from Sparta to Thebes, however Thebes failed to attain the level of greatness that Athens had once been on, and did not have the economy to support their power.

Thebes then invaded Laconia, and soon followed up by invading Messenia, costing Sparta half her population and almost all her economic support. An Athenian Army approached, and the Thebans fell back to Thebes, without encountering the Athenian Army, which in turn, fell back to Athens. The next year, the Thebans again attacked the Peleponnese, found the way blocked by a combined Spartan-Athenian and several other city states army, but attacked and successfully broke through. However the Thebans were defeated in their attack on Corinth by the Athenians, following which they fell back to Thebes. After this, Thebes continued to rise, winning over Byzantium and defending Larissa from Alexander of Macedonia.

However soon financial troubles began to wax Thebe's greatness, and Mantinea went over to Sparta, and following the Battle of Mantinea (in which Thebes won victory), they lost all of their great generals, and their commanders dying orders were to make peace with the Mantineans, thus ended the conflict between independent city states, as the rise of Macedonia to the North would overshadow it.

Concerning the Theban-Spartan conflict, I believe a Theban official asked the nearby Spartan Army to attack Thebes and push the democrats out. Becuase of celebrations, the citadel contained no men in it, and the Spartan Army entered Thebes unopposed. The democrats were either executed or fled, mostly to Athens, from the Oligarchy which established itself. They attempted to get support from Athens, but finding little, they hatched a plot to retake the city themselves.

A small band of men snuck into Thebes, killed several high officials, and broke open the armories calling the people into rebellion. The Spartan garrison soon left for Sparta itself, and the Thebans later defeated the Spartans in battle (despite having half their numbers). After this, Thebes found itself empowered, an Sparta's main goal became to destroy Thebes, and four years later, at Luectra, they were again defeated by Thebes, and for some time, the mantle of Greek supercity passed from Sparta to Thebes, however Thebes failed to attain the level of greatness that Athens had once been on, and did not have the economy to support their power.

Thebes then invaded Laconia, and soon followed up by invading Messenia, costing Sparta half her population and almost all her economic support. An Athenian Army approached, and the Thebans fell back to Thebes, without encountering the Athenian Army, which in turn, fell back to Athens. The next year, the Thebans again attacked the Peleponnese, found the way blocked by a combined Spartan-Athenian and several other city states army, but attacked and successfully broke through. However the Thebans were defeated in their attack on Corinth by the Athenians, following which they fell back to Thebes. After this, Thebes continued to rise, winning over Byzantium and defending Larissa from Alexander of Macedonia.

However soon financial troubles began to wax Thebe's greatness, and Mantinea went over to Sparta, and following the Battle of Mantinea (in which Thebes won victory), they lost all of their great generals, and their commanders dying orders were to make peace with the Mantineans, thus ended the conflict between independent city states, as the rise of Macedonia to the North would overshadow it.

My God, man, you must be psychic! :eek:

I was just about to send you a TG asking for your help. :p

Thanks a bunch! :)

1. The battle of Thermopylae caused a great decline in the morale of the forces of Persia and allowed the Greeks to escape to fight another day. 300 Spartans held off 250,000 Persians for 2 days until they were betrayed. The Spartans under Leonidus killed approx 10,000 Persians before falling. The Greeks abandoned Athens and took to the sea where they later defeated the Persians in the battle of Salamis in 479 BC. The Greeks were fighting for an ideal that was foreign to the Persians......freedom.


Mind you that 10,000 is a very conservative estimate. It is sometimes stated that up to 50,000 Persians were killed.

One thing that has always impressed me about Thermopylae was the stark contrast of the positions of the opposing kings. The Persian king Xerxes sat behind his army on his enormous throne, dressed in his fine court robes, surrounded by chamberlains and bodyguards, demanding Leonidus throw down his weapons and surrender. Leonidus on the other hand was standing on the front line with his soldiers clad in his armor and replying to Xerxes message, "Come and get them." And then, turning to his men said, "I hope you all had a good breakfast, because tonight, we'll all be dining in Hell."

Mind you that 10,000 is a very conservative estimate. It is sometimes stated that up to 50,000 Persians were killed.

One thing that has always impressed me about Thermopylae was the stark contrast of the positions of the opposing kings. The Persian king Xerxes sat behind his army on his enormous throne, dressed in his fine court robes, surrounded by chamberlains and bodyguards, demanding Leonidus throw down his weapons and surrender. Leonidus on the other hand was standing on the front line with his soldiers clad in his armor and replying to Xerxes message, "Come and get them." And then, turning to his men said, "I hope you all had a good breakfast, because tonight, we'll all be dining in Hell."

Thanks.

Dont forget about when Xerxes' ambassador told Leonidas that the arrows of the persian army would blot out the sun, leonidas replied "Good, now my men will fight in the shade."

Mind you that 10,000 is a very conservative estimate. It is sometimes stated that up to 50,000 Persians were killed.

One might consider as well that many ancient sources have a nasty habit of exaggerating numbers, so the exact number of soldiers would be pretty sketchy.
There's also the battle of Marathon to consider. It was a major victory for the Greeks against the Persians, fought near Athens. The Athenians and allies (memory's fuzzy. It's been a while.) sent word to Sparta in hopes of reinforcements, but none were available. (Legend goes that the messenger who ran the distance also brought back word of the Greek victory at Marathon before dying. Hence your lengthy race is named for Marathon) Anyway, the Greeks went it alone, with no troops from Sparta, and whupped the Persians. Thats all I got. It's been two or three years since I last read any history on Ancient Greece, and I never got into these battles in too much detail.

1. The battle of Thermopylae caused a great decline in the morale of the forces of Persia and allowed the Greeks to escape to fight another day. 300 Spartans held off 250,000 Persians for 2 days until they were betrayed. The Spartans under Leonidus killed approx 10,000 Persians before falling. The Greeks abandoned Athens and took to the sea where they later defeated the Persians in the battle of Salamis in 479 BC. The Greeks were fighting for an ideal that was foreign to the Persians......freedom.


Also, the Spartans were fantastically better armed and trained than the Persians, and had the absolute advantage of position at Thermopylae.

It was a sort of "perfect storm" of factors that made the Battle of Thermopylae the most glorious and honorable military encounter of all time; the Spartans there history's greatest military heroes.

Second on the list would probably be the person of Horatio Nelson.

Thanks again, everyone. :)

oh ye traveller who passes by
go tell the spartans, that we who here lie
died obedient to their laws
(a paraphrase from memory of the epitaph for the spartans at thermopylae)