NationStates Jolt Archive

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's unilateral plan to evacuate some occupied land and keep the rest will indefinitely prevent a Palestinian state with Washington's blessing, a senior Israeli official said in an interview published Wednesday.

"The significance of our disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process. It supplies the formaldehyde necessary so there is no political process with the Palestinians," said Dov Weisglass, key adviser to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Weisglass told Haaretz daily continuing Palestinian militant violence was to blame for the lack of diplomacy. Palestinians blame Israeli offensives they say frustrate cease-fire efforts as well as Sharon's aim to keep major West Bank settlements.

Officials in Israel's right-wing government have for months privately written off the internationally-sponsored "road map" peace plan and rejected frequent appeals by Palestinian leaders to conduct negotiations.

"When you freeze the process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state ... Effectively this whole package called a Palestinian state, with all it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda," Weisglass told Haaretz.

"And all this with ... a presidential blessing," he said, referring to President Bush's approval in April of Sharon's plan to quit tiny Gaza in 2005 while retaining swathes of the West Bank, superseding the moribund "road map."

"By the way the Americans read the situation, the blame fell on the Palestinians, not on us, Arik (Sharon) grasped that (the Palestinians) would not leave us alone ... and time was not on our side," Haaretz quoted Weisglass as saying.

"What I effectively agreed to with the Americans (in talks leading to Bush's endorsement of 'disengagement) was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns."

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6424426

About damn time.

And the cycle continues.

It's sad because there are decent people on both sides.

Not every israeli is a genicidal maniac. Not every palistinean is a suicide bomber.

Israel has to be shown it has a right to exist.

Palistine has to be created with something that is workable. Something that can be built. What they have no is a crap hole at best.

Why does Palestine have to be created? Jordan was already established as a Palestinian state.

Why does Palestine have to be created? Jordan was already established as a Palestinian state.Because Palestinians live in Palestine. They have the keys of their home in Palestine, they deserve an access to the sea as well.
Why don't you move to live in the desert yourself?

Just another reason america should pull out support for Israel. Everyone, for that matter.

Israel definately shouldnt have/doesnt need nuclear weapons. I for one dont like my tax money to pay for depleted uranium tank shells to be lobbed at baby carraiges, either.

Because Palestinians live in Palestine. They have the keys of their home in Palestine, they deserve an access to the sea as well.
Why don't you move to live in the desert yourself?


Already been there thanks.

So if an American goes and buys a home in Canada, or say the draft dodgers even, who were "driven from their homes", do they then have the right to demand autonomy from the Canadians and demand their own homeland in Canada?

And why do they immediately dserve access to the sea? Why are we not concerned about access to the sea for other land-locked countries?

The Palestinians have twice rejected having their own state, most recently after President Clinton negotiated the best deal that has been offered.

Officials from both sides agreed and Israel immediately went working toward it. Unfortunately, our Palestinian "friends" actually increased the amount of homicide bombings after the agreement had been reached. Israel, after finally realizing the PA has zero control over its radical elements, immediately went to work defending its citizens, which is where we are at today.

Already been there thanks.

So if an American goes and buys a home in Canada, or say the draft dodgers even, who were "driven from their homes", do they then have the right to demand autonomy from the Canadians and demand their own homeland in Canada?

And why do they immediately dserve access to the sea? Why are we not concerned about access to the sea for other land-locked countries?No.
This is exactely what is happening in Palestine though.
The palestinians were living there and now they have refugee status in Jordan while israelis have claimed their own land in Palestine via terrorism.

The Palestinians have twice rejected having their own state, most recently after President Clinton negotiated the best deal that has been offered.

Officials from both sides agreed and Israel immediately went working toward it. Unfortunately, our Palestinian "friends" actually increased the amount of homicide bombings after the agreement had been reached. Israel, after finally realizing the PA has zero control over its radical elements, immediately went to work defending its citizens, which is where we are at today.Their own state was a collection of small islands in Israel.
BTW the PA has zero control because their HQ is being buldozed.

Actually, I would say that Yasser Arafat has a fair amount of control, and he doesn't want any to go to anyone else, especially those who might make peace.

Their own state was a collection of small islands in Israel.
BTW the PA has zero control because their HQ is being buldozed.
No, their own state was 97% of the occupied territories.

Actually, I would say that Yasser Arafat has a fair amount of control, and he doesn't want any to go to anyone else, especially those who might make peace.Then why not try to negociate directly with Hamas?

No.
This is exactely what is happening in Palestine though.
The palestinians were living there and now they have refugee status in Jordan while israelis have claimed their own land in Palestine via terrorism.
You live there? I do.
1) The Jordanians killed all the Palestinians in Jordan quite a while back after they got tired of them firing missiles from Jordan.
2)Terrorism is killing innocents. Thats the suicide bombers, you know blowing up buses and the like. If you want i'll find you a timeline of the suicide bombings. There was one there, during a religious holiday where a Palestinian entered a hotel in the middle of the passover meal and blew up 20-something elderly people, what a hero:rolleyes:

No, their own state was 97% of the occupied territories.
It was cut into pieces.

Then why not try to negociate directly with Hamas?
Israel? Hamas? Are you crazy? Hamas want ALL of Israel, no negotiations. I'd say it's kinda hard to negotiate with that kind of person. Besides we killed their last 2 leaders.

It was cut into pieces.
source please

Why does Palestine have to be created? Jordan was already established as a Palestinian state.
Because they don't want to live in Jordan, they want their home back.

You live there? I do.
1) The Jordanians killed all the Palestinians in Jordan quite a while back after they got tired of them firing missiles from Jordan.
2)Terrorism is killing innocents. Thats the suicide bombers, you know blowing up buses and the like. If you want i'll find you a timeline of the suicide bombings. There was one there, during a religious holiday where a Palestinian entered a hotel in the middle of the passover meal and blew up 20-something elderly people, what a hero:rolleyes:So long as the refugees aren't allowed to go home, those kind of things are unstoppable.

Israel? Hamas? Are you crazy? Hamas want ALL of Israel, no negotiations. I'd say it's kinda hard to negotiate with that kind of person. Besides we killed their last 2 leaders.
That's what I'm saying.
If you don't want to negociate with Arafat, negociate with Hamas.

So long as the refugees aren't allowed to go home, those kind of things are unstoppable.
Yes they are. People rise above it and work through the legal process. the murders undertaken by suicide bombers will never bring about thier stated aims, they must know this so all I can think is that they want to continue the circle of violence in the hope they might win.
All the murders the IRA commited never brought about a settlement.
I know it's a bit harsh but most of the population now claiming to be Palestinian have never lived anywhere else. Do the desendants of Mexicans thrown off land in Texas when the US stole it have a right to live in the US? How many generations can claims be taken back?

source please
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/palestine/images/oslo-map1.gif

Yes they are. People rise above it and work through the legal process. the murders undertaken by suicide bombers will never bring about thier stated aims, they must know this so all I can think is that they want to continue the circle of violence in the hope they might win.
All the murders the IRA commited never brought about a settlement.
I know it's a bit harsh but most of the population now claiming to be Palestinian have never lived anywhere else. Do the desendants of Mexicans thrown off land in Texas when the US stole it have a right to live in the US? How many generations can claims be taken back?It was in 1947, not in 1820.
I agree suicide bombers should not bring about their state aims, but then what will bring their state aims? Most palestinians are not suicide bombers and they can't stop some fools from suiciding themselves when the israeli government is constantly putting fuel into the fire. Israel should help the PA to calm down the extremists instead of constantly trying to destabilize the area in order to get more land.

That's what I'm saying.
If you don't want to negociate with Arafat, negociate with Hamas.
Arafat funds Hamas, Arafat all but owns Hamas. Either way we'd be negotiating with the same people.

Arafat funds Hamas, Arafat all but owns Hamas. Either way we'd be negotiating with the same people.
Source please.

It was in 1947, not in 1820.
I agree suicide bombers should not bring about their state aims, but then what will bring their state aims? Most palestinians are not suicide bombers and they can't stop some fools from suiciding themselves when the israeli government is constantly putting fuel into the fire. Israel should help the PA to calm down the extremists instead of constantly trying to destabilize the area in order to get more land.
I agree with both of you here but waht difference does 1836 (http://www.lsjunction.com/events/events.htm) and 1947 make?
How about 1920 or 1900 what is the cut off date?
So by your argument since the English have been in Ireland since 1170 there can be no argument about who it belongs to.

I agree with both of you here but waht difference does 1836 (http://www.lsjunction.com/events/events.htm) and 1947 make?
How about 1920 or 1900 what is the cut off date?
So by your argument since the English have been in Ireland since 1170 there can be no argument about who it belongs to.The difference is that some people still have the key of their home in Palestine where they were born and grew up and are refugees in Jordany.

I agree with both of you here but waht difference does 1836 (http://www.lsjunction.com/events/events.htm) and 1947 make?
How about 1920 or 1900 what is the cut off date?
So by your argument since the English have been in Ireland since 1170 there can be no argument about who it belongs to.

YEAH. Ireland for the english!

actually on one point

what legal means are available to the palestinian 'refugees' to reclaim their former homes in isreal?
Are there any? are they effective?

actually on one point

what legal means are available to the palestinian 'refugees' to reclaim their former homes in isreal?
Are there any? are they effective?
There are none.
Even the peace process and the Oslo accords left the refugee problem for a later date. That and Jerusalem. This is why it colapsed (because it postponed the main issue).

Then why not try to negociate directly with Hamas?

Because Hamas' goal is to destroy Israel. Not much to negotiate over.

Jesus, will they just drop it and live their lives already? Where's the logic of creating a new state? Both countries become poor from losing land, and last I checked it's pretty hard to make the desert bloom, so all we do is creat a nation that can do nothing, but exist off other countries. A parasite.

Well I for one am furious at this news. I was a supporter of the fence and disengagement within the larger context of it being a series of steps leading back to the peace table. The fact that Wiessglass has basically admitted that it's nothing but a shield to deflect pressure and buy Israel more time to do nothing about negotiations makes me want to scream.

I trusted those bastards. I defended them. Just like I once defended Arafat.

I despise them all. :mad:

I pray that this gets the Israeli left off their asses in Israel. Protests, etc... Bring down the government, whatever. Sharon lied to the Israeli people, just like Bush lied to the American people. This is unacceptable.

I can't decide what's worse- that I and so many other people were gullible (or desperate) enough to believe these a**holes, or that they think they're so damn unaccountable they're willing to admit this crap in public.

Good move. The Palestinians aren't fit for a state until they can control groups like Hamas and al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. (oh wait Arafat controls one of those groups and not in the way of containing them)

Pretty much I don't see them fit until they can police these groups and not encourage terrorism. If they and their arab neighbors didn't attack Israel, they would have a state so I have no pity for the Palestinians. Go Israel!

The Palestinians had a shot with that 1st PM a few years (his name is currently escaping me, but I think it was something like Mohamed Abbas or Abu Abbas) but Arafat made him quit when he actually made progress towards peace with Israel.