NationStates Jolt Archive

After reading the local letters to the editor again, i have just found out what people are most likely to support Bush: ignorant bigots and trained to be blind

More specifically: the hardcore religious: baptists and other protestant religions, and the former military

The former military are brainwashed into doing whatever htey are told and believing whatever they are told is right. period. They blindly accept whatever the president does and ignores his faults and trarget anyone who opposes him with ignorant disregard.

The highly religious apply their generaly ignorant biggotry to the far more intelligent Kerry and end up opposing him becuase he stands for moving the nation forward and not bending to the whims of the people who would control this nation and make it a theocracy like Bush. They support anything Bush does because he says "God is on our side" and he likes enforcing his religious views on people: not funding stem cel lresearch (which is irrelevant ot abortion), making aboriton illegal and outlawing homosexuality. Heaven forbid we disagree with the New Crusade and we support equal rights for people who are different than us and support the advancement of medical knowledge and technology.

If Bush wins, go to your local baptist church and say "thanks everyone, start praying for our troops and your future kids" then go to a veterans club and talk to bush supporters and thank them for supporting some one who sends people to war shemlessly and blindly instead of some one who opposes abuses of force and has seen war.

you may be interested in this.. nothing formal just some opinions-
http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

Stop it

you may be interested in this.. nothing formal just some opinions-
http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

omg nice link its so true :D

I'm so glad I'm not American right now...

I'm so glad I'm not American right now...
I can't wait till the blasted elections are FINALLY there. No more whining about Bush and Kerry ALL THE FECKING TIME!

After reading the local letters to the editor again, i have just found out what people are most likely to support Bush: ignorant bigots and trained to be blind

and according to this pipa study (http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_9_29_04.html), he is supported by the terminally delusional and clueless - or at least clueless and delusional on every issue besides the one or two issues they actually care about.

"Majorities of Bush supporters incorrectly assumed that Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (84%), and the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the International Criminal Court (66%), the treaty banning land mines (72%), and the Kyoto Treaty on global warming (51%)."

Extremely hateful gross generalizations. Wow, if what you just said is true, you're a complete ignorant bigot yourself.

Do you know WHY I happen to support Bush? Let's take a look at myelf here...
- I'm a college student who comes from an upper-middle class family.
- I've been working very crappy jobs since age 15 (along with the lovely fact that mass amounts of my income are deducted even when I make such a pathetic amount).
- I am anything but religious.
- I don't like war.
- I don't like how quickly we went to war.
- I disagree with Bush quite often.

Now, how do I, in any way, shape, or form match with your little bigoted generalization? GASP! I DON'T! OH NOES!!!

In yet more overuse of bullets, here's why I prefer Bush over anyone else who could be president right now:
- Bush has always been open with his agenda.
- You know where he stands.
- He might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's certainly been smart enough to surround himself with a cabinet with countless years of experience.
- When Bush speaks, you do indeed get the impression that he's saying what he himself truly believes.
- He's been entirely honest in the most technical of senses (no he hasn't lied, look up the verb in the dictionary if you think he has).
- He stands to screw the country up less than anyone else.

I disagree with what he thinks about technological advancement, I disagree with what he says about people's personal freedoms, I disagree with what he says about how involved the government should be, and I disagree with innumerable other things. Why? Because he's the lesser of two evils.

AND STOP BITCHING!

If people hate the war in Iraq, then why is Americans still sign uo for the military just to go to this war? I'm one of them that just sign up for the US Marines as a infantry man. :sniper:

If people hate the war in Iraq, then why is Americans still sign uo for the military just to go to this war? I'm one of them that just sign up for the US Marines as a infantry man. :sniper:
Thank you for supporting your country perpare for the left to undermine you.

If people hate the war in Iraq, then why is Americans still sign uo for the military just to go to this war? I'm one of them that just sign up for the US Marines as a infantry man. :sniper:
i went navy and am ready to go where need be
i support my fellow troops and saliors and our comander and cheif
my absenty ballot is already sent in and at the doe

You guys are a -lot- braver than I am. I was "fortunate" enough to spend some time in Germany in Landstuhl (home of the Army Regional Medical Facility) and wow... I seriously couldn't risk my life like that. I've seen some sights, but that place really scared me out of joining the military.

I can't wait till the blasted elections are FINALLY there. No more whining about Bush and Kerry ALL THE FECKING TIME!

Hahaha... it won't stop. Ever.

The losers will call foul, the winners will mock the losers, everyone will blame the last candidate/president of the opposing party for everything and declare their chosen candidate/president the end-all be-all of goodness incarnate.

Then we have the NEXT election to look forward to. Starting roughly 1 day after this election ends...

Thank you for supporting your country perpare for the left to undermine you.

LMAO! Oh, man...that is so true. The left wants to feel safe and secure, but they also wanna ridicule and demoralize our troops whenever they get a chance.

and Lokuru: I agree almost wholeheartedly with you. I myself don't fit the paradigm of what the left describes as a "Bush Voter"...but I'm voting for him, and I have convinced most of the people I know to vote for him.

Here's my irrelevent use of bullets:

-I'm in the lower/middle class. When the left cries about the "top 1%", I usually bring out the copy of the newspaper that says "Bush passes wide taxcuts for middle class."
-I also have worked factory jobs, and am now an entrepreneur...
-I am NOT a member of the military.
-I am NOT a religious person. The Christians call me a "devil worshipper", although I am a Pagan.

Why am I voting for Bush?
He says what he means, and means what he says. He doesn't spend time worrying about what the UN thinks. He worries about taking care of the people in the US. When I hear the crap from the left, it's always the same old crap "talking points" that they have copied and pasted from the DNC. It's usually always nothing but DEFLECTION. They can't stay on topic, because they don't really have a clue.

i went navy and am ready to go where need be
i support my fellow troops and saliors and our comander and cheif
my absenty ballot is already sent in and at the doe

Why is it that the people who spell the worst on the internet are always native english speakers?

i went navy and am ready to go where need be
i support my fellow troops and saliors and our comander and cheif
my absenty ballot is already sent in and at the doe


USNN
NAZI EUROPE INFORMATION MINISTER
NAZI EUROPE HIGH COUNCIL



An endorsement from a self-proclaimed Nazi. Thanks for the reality check, sport, though I'm sure you didn't intend it.

An Observation: People who are radical anti bush or radical anti Kerry always amuse me. The reson for this is that the difference between them is so small. Really it is just a single word that word being Kerry or Bush. Now before you type back a reply I am going to answer some accusations that regardless of side you are going to toss my way. 1) I am not ignorant, nor immoral, nor a brainwashed fool. I am very literate and capable of critical analysis and logical thought. I love my country very much and am a patriot in every sense of the word. 2) I am not a heartless bigot. As such I do not discriminate, I am compassionate for the poor, and if a bunch of shaved heads were steel toeing some body you had best believe that I would be the first person in the pile putting a stop to it. 3) I am quite fond of the environment and enjoy the air I breathe and water I drink. I do not want to live in a corporate landfill and at the same time I do not believe that regulated drilling for oil will cause the mass extinctions some would have me believe. All this being said, it is amusing that both extreme sides of the politcal spectrum sit in their towers of intellectual arrogance and tear their hair out over the stupidity of the other side. Both sides are all about immediate action to satisfy their agendas and neither is about sitting back and actually figuring out the what is best for society as a whole. What I look forward to is the day that the democrats and republicans nominate someone with the same last name and the extremists on both sides become highly confused as to what their positions and arguements truly are. If that ever happens it will be interesting to see if they continue their bickering or realize how much they have in common and turn on the moderates. One thing to keep in mind. Bush wins or Kerry wins politics will continue as always. Insiders will get spoils, outsiders will get promises and the day to day everyday Joe will punch in, punch out and drink a beer. Taxes may go up or down, wars may happen and those so inclined will fight, and demonstrations will still take place. In four years another election will take place and the canidates will have us once again believing that that election will be the pivotal point in our nations history as if America throws it all on the line every four years. So in closing, there are many very important issues. As you review the issues and canidates stances ask yourself whether or not there is truly a choice. Are these two truly so different? Are either of them looking out for the common man who must fight their wars and pay for their programs. Has either ever had to balance a checkbook or worry about next months rent or mortgage? Until I become a major mover in the business world or a marginalized alternative lifestyle minority with life threatneing diseaes and other insurmountable problems I have a feeling that neither canidate from either party is truly going to be looking out for me. I have the unfortunate position of being average.

Why is it that the people who spell the worst on the internet are always native english speakers?
Why are people who spell well and use proper grammar often snobbish assholes?

And Dark Monkey, woah, dude, paragraphs. They're your friends.

Edit:
By the by, Nazis are NOT what you think. Hitler was an extreme Nazi, not an example of what a Nazi really is. And this is coming from a guy whose family was just about wiped out during the holocaust. Come on, use your brain.

I'm so glad I'm not American right now...

As am I.

Glad you're not an American, that is. :D

[Chess Squares #1]
After reading the local letters to the editor again, i have just found out what people are most likely to support Bush: ignorant bigots and trained to be blind

More specifically: the hardcore religious: baptists and other protestant religions, and the former military

The former military are brainwashed into doing whatever htey are told and believing whatever they are told is right. period. They blindly accept whatever the president does and ignores his faults and trarget anyone who opposes him with ignorant disregard.

The highly religious apply their generaly ignorant biggotry to the far more intelligent Kerry and end up opposing him becuase he stands for moving the nation forward and not bending to the whims of the people who would control this nation and make it a theocracy like Bush. They support anything Bush does because he says "God is on our side" and he likes enforcing his religious views on people: not funding stem cel lresearch (which is irrelevant ot abortion), making aboriton illegal and outlawing homosexuality. Heaven forbid we disagree with the New Crusade and we support equal rights for people who are different than us and support the advancement of medical knowledge and technology.

If Bush wins, go to your local baptist church and say "thanks everyone, start praying for our troops and your future kids" then go to a veterans club and talk to bush supporters and thank them for supporting some one who sends people to war shemlessly and blindly instead of some one who opposes abuses of force and has seen war.

Where did you learn to communicate via the keyboard..?

Speaking of morons...! :)

You sound angry. Poor baby. May I offer my condolensces to your widdle hurt feewings.

Thank you for your juvenile sharing. Heh he he he he... :D

Thank you for illustrating the habitual adolescent behavior of the left.

Grow up, kiddo. And enjoy the show in the mean time.

(( Do try to keep your blood pressure under control. Even if you're [almost certainly] young, it's NOT good for you on a continual basis. ))

I apologize for degrading my post into a jeuvenile batch of asshattery, but here goes anyway.

ZING!

[The Dark Monkey #17]
An Observation: People who are radical anti bush or radical anti Kerry always amuse me. The reson for this is that the difference between them is so small. Really it is just a single word that word being Kerry or Bush. Now before you type back a reply I am going to answer some accusations that regardless of side you are going to toss my way.

1) I am not ignorant, nor immoral, nor a brainwashed fool. I am very literate and capable of critical analysis and logical thought. I love my country very much and am a patriot in every sense of the word.

2) I am not a heartless bigot. As such I do not discriminate, I am compassionate for the poor, and if a bunch of shaved heads were steel toeing some body you had best believe that I would be the first person in the pile putting a stop to it.

3) I am quite fond of the environment and enjoy the air I breathe and water I drink. I do not want to live in a corporate landfill and at the same time I do not believe that regulated drilling for oil will cause the mass extinctions some would have me believe.

All this being said, it is amusing that both extreme sides of the politcal spectrum sit in their towers of intellectual arrogance and tear their hair out over the stupidity of the other side. Both sides are all about immediate action to satisfy their agendas and neither is about sitting back and actually figuring out the what is best for society as a whole.

What I look forward to is the day that the democrats and republicans nominate someone with the same last name and the extremists on both sides become highly confused as to what their positions and arguements truly are. If that ever happens it will be interesting to see if they continue their bickering or realize how much they have in common and turn on the moderates.

One thing to keep in mind. Bush wins or Kerry wins politics will continue as always. Insiders will get spoils, outsiders will get promises and the day to day everyday Joe will punch in, punch out and drink a beer. Taxes may go up or down, wars may happen and those so inclined will fight, and demonstrations will still take place. In four years another election will take place and the canidates will have us once again believing that that election will be the pivotal point in our nations history as if America throws it all on the line every four years.

So in closing, there are many very important issues. As you review the issues and canidates stances ask yourself whether or not there is truly a choice. Are these two truly so different? Are either of them looking out for the common man who must fight their wars and pay for their programs. Has either ever had to balance a checkbook or worry about next months rent or mortgage?

Until I become a major mover in the business world or a marginalized alternative lifestyle minority with life threatneing diseaes and other insurmountable problems I have a feeling that neither canidate from either party is truly going to be looking out for me. I have the unfortunate position of being average.

Heh he he he he...! :)

(( I just had to put in some white space into your missive. People tend to forget about white space and how little it costs in terms of "pixels". :) ))

I agree with you 150K percent..!

The Republicans are rightists doing "blah".

The Democrats are slightly-less-rightists doing "counter-blah".

Nobody (any administration) really controls much of anything, and the claims of blame and credit are only campaign ploys, used by both sides.

You're dead on with your "pivotal point in human history" remark. This is not a pivotal point in history, as either rightist party (dem or rep) would and will do approximately the same thing, regardless of their protestations to the contrary.

Leftists are just irrelevant. This thread originator is just pissed off that we all don't share his enlightened superior righteous viewpoint.

Oh well. :) It's a nifty show, with lots of hyper-adrenal characters.

I'm enjoying stirring the pot. Great insights from you, and best to you till next election..!

Why is it that the people who spell the worst on the internet are always native english speakers?
Hello Bungeria,
In our defence, we do have creative and colourful imaginations.
Each to their own, I hope you enjoy the game. L .o. L .

As for the thread, why does the voting slip not have a 'none of the above box'?

There's hardly anything 'radical' about being anti-Bush, or anti-Kerry for that matter. It'd be radical if there was only one candidate on offer. Everything else is just garden-variety politics.

Maybe it seems 'radical' to be partisan these days, considering how the last election effectively polarized the two competing political camps, but I think it's far more likely that Americans, on the whole, love being drama queens and aren't above co-opting political terminologies to 'sex up' their dull process.

America, the only place I know of where the meaning of the word 'liberal' has been so mangled and garbled that it's on a social par with expressions like 'lecher', 'drug abuser' or 'child pornographer'.

Get over yourselves, you parochial peckerheads.

[Dobbs Town #24]
There's hardly anything 'radical' about being anti-Bush, or anti-Kerry for that matter. It'd be radical if there was only one candidate on offer. Everything else is just garden-variety politics.

Maybe it seems 'radical' to be partisan these days, considering how the last election effectively polarized the two competing political camps, but I think it's far more likely that Americans, on the whole, love being drama queens and aren't above co-opting political terminologies to 'sex up' their dull process.

America, the only place I know of where the meaning of the word 'liberal' has been so mangled and garbled that it's on a social par with expressions like 'lecher', 'drug abuser' or 'child pornographer'.

Get over yourselves, you parochial peckerheads.

Heh he he he he he he he...!!! :D

Yes,. Americans are inveterate perenial drama queens..! And we absolutely LOVE pissing off (making angry) other nationals (other nation's people).

(( Sorry for the parentheticals, but you non-Americans are SO very dense with our Americanisms some times, I thought I'd be extraordinarily clear. ))

And liberal is a 7-letter 4-letter word. :)

I'm also not too sure who you're refering to as "parochial peckerheads" though. Is that directed at all Americans, or just polical-view spouting Americans,.. or liberal Americans..?

I'm not the biggest fan of Bush. I do think he could do things a little differently, but I'm not a fan of Kerry. I don't trust him at all. I don't trust everything Bish says, but I still trust him a hell of a lot more than Kerry.

So sayeth the Crossman.

I support him!!!!

I also like to see some on here cringe at the sound of that. ;)

Actually I dislike Kerry so much that I would rather see Bush win to prevent Kerry from getting the nod.

After reading the local letters to the editor again, i have just found out what people are most likely to support Bush: ignorant bigots and trained to be blind

More specifically: the hardcore religious: baptists and other protestant religions, and the former military

The former military are brainwashed into doing whatever htey are told and believing whatever they are told is right. period. They blindly accept whatever the president does and ignores his faults and trarget anyone who opposes him with ignorant disregard.

The highly religious apply their generaly ignorant biggotry to the far more intelligent Kerry and end up opposing him becuase he stands for moving the nation forward and not bending to the whims of the people who would control this nation and make it a theocracy like Bush. They support anything Bush does because he says "God is on our side" and he likes enforcing his religious views on people: not funding stem cel lresearch (which is irrelevant ot abortion), making aboriton illegal and outlawing homosexuality. Heaven forbid we disagree with the New Crusade and we support equal rights for people who are different than us and support the advancement of medical knowledge and technology.

If Bush wins, go to your local baptist church and say "thanks everyone, start praying for our troops and your future kids" then go to a veterans club and talk to bush supporters and thank them for supporting some one who sends people to war shemlessly and blindly instead of some one who opposes abuses of force and has seen war.

Whoa there, Laddie. Not all of Bushites are ignorant or blind. Some are sheepish and are chosing him because nothing better to choose in their opinion.

Military is sometimes indoctrined so one could assume they are formed into blindly following republicans but that is only half right. Many other issues. Like lies that republicans say that confuse them into thinking badly of democrats.

Example: Reagon, the paradigm of Conservatives, raised taxes in his second term. Something Republicsns now adays adhor. But if yoiu notice the cycle of "prosperity":
Give a tax cut then give a tax raise.

It worked for Reagon(many conservatives believe that Clinton got his prosperity from Reagon) to cut then tax.

Bush is doing the worst job of prosperity cucle. He wants to cut then cut. You'll never reap the rewards till someone taxes. And Bush wouldn't do that so you would need Kerry( according to Conservatives) for Prosperity but eh.
Conservatibves say that Kerry will raise taxes. According to Reagon that would be a good thing.

But I guess Bush and many republicans today deals with Irony, Outrageous claims.

But Bushites will never admit that tax raises are needed even though REagon says they are.

Where did you learn to communicate via the keyboard..?

Speaking of morons...! :)

You sound angry. Poor baby. May I offer my condolensces to your widdle hurt feewings.

Thank you for your juvenile sharing. Heh he he he he... :D

Thank you for illustrating the habitual adolescent behavior of the left.

Grow up, kiddo. And enjoy the show in the mean time.

(( Do try to keep your blood pressure under control. Even if you're [almost certainly] young, it's NOT good for you on a continual basis. ))[/FONT][/COLOR]
and you prove my point thus

Whoa there, Laddie. Not all of Bushites are ignorant or blind. Some are sheepish and are chosing him because nothing better to choose in their opinion.
1) i said those are the people most likely to support bush. i did not say thsoe were the only people who supported him neither did i say that was everyone who supported him



and to address all of the truly incomeptent liberal haters that prove my point without me even having to try.

i have never given a position other than anti-bush, i would criticise kerry about his presidential actions except for the fact he is NOT president.

not only that, but this post is irrelevant to whom i support, this is addressing the supporters of bush, or rather, those people most likely to support bush.

and after reading letter after letter day after day from either idiotic veterans who think Bush is the good person sitting at the button ready to push a button to launch the things he cant pronounces, or ignorant bigoted protestants and baptists and their ilk who think Bush is the savior born again to protect them from equality for homosexuals and advancement in medicine through stem cell research, regardless of where it comes from. then there are just the plain ignorant who just hate liberals because they have chosen themselves to turn a blind eye to the true actions of their own people and refuse to analyse and think outside the republican box.

[Chess Squares #29]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
Where did you learn to communicate via the keyboard..?

Speaking of morons...!

You sound angry. Poor baby. May I offer my condolensces to your widdle hurt feewings.

Thank you for your juvenile sharing. Heh he he he he...

Thank you for illustrating the habitual adolescent behavior of the left.

Grow up, kiddo. And enjoy the show in the mean time.

(( Do try to keep your blood pressure under control. Even if you're [almost certainly] young, it's NOT good for you on a continual basis. ))

and you prove my point thus

And your point was WHAT again..?

Please provide context with your words. Or is that too difficult..?

You seem to be implying that I'm both/either an "ignorant bigot" or "the trained to be blind".

I don't see the connection to my statement that you haven't yet figured out how to use the keyboard and that you are an angry juvenile.

Please enlighten me on your glorious words,.. which amount to "I know you are but what am I..?!"

:)

The orginal post by Chess Squares made me laugh.

Someone who has never even thought about supporting Bush trying to tell people who supports him.

I'm gonna go on my merry, bigot, right wing, Christian conspirator way now.

GO GO NEO-CONS!

[Chess Squares #30]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BastardSword
Whoa there, Laddie. Not all of Bushites are ignorant or blind. Some are sheepish and are chosing him because nothing better to choose in their opinion.

1) i said those are the people most likely to support bush. i did not say thsoe were the only people who supported him neither did i say that was everyone who supported him

and to address all of the truly incomeptent liberal haters that prove my point without me even having to try.

i have never given a position other than anti-bush, i would criticise kerry about his presidential actions except for the fact he is NOT president.

not only that, but this post is irrelevant to whom i support, this is addressing the supporters of bush, or rather, those people most likely to support bush.

and after reading letter after letter day after day from either idiotic veterans who think Bush is the good person sitting at the button ready to push a button to launch the things he cant pronounces, or ignorant bigoted protestants and baptists and their ilk who think Bush is the savior born again to protect them from equality for homosexuals and advancement in medicine through stem cell research, regardless of where it comes from. then there are just the plain ignorant who just hate liberals because they have chosen themselves to turn a blind eye to the true actions of their own people and refuse to analyse and think outside the republican box.

Heh he he he he...Yet another (incompetently keyboarded) missive from a young'en with that angry counter-culture hard-on just bustin' to be loosed in public.

Isn't exhibitionism an amusing thing..?

Do keep talking, Chess,.. you're a WONDERFUL illustration of the ills of the left.

The more you blather,.. the more people understand your ilk.

The more that happens, the better for society.

:)

Have a nifty day, little one..!

And your point was WHAT again..?

Please provide context with your words. Or is that too difficult..?

You seem to be implying that I'm both/either an "ignorant bigot" or "the trained to be blind".

I don't see the connection to my statement that you haven't yet figured out how to use the keyboard and that you are an angry juvenile.

Please enlighten me on your glorious words,.. which amount to "I know you are but what am I..?!"

:)[/FONT][/COLOR]
ignorant bigot

[The Derelict #32]
The orginal post by Chess Squares made me laugh.

Someone who has never even thought about supporting Bush trying to tell people who supports him.

I'm gonna go on my merry, bigot, right wing, Christian conspirator way now.

GO GO NEO-CONS!

Heh he he he....

Have you ever heard such bigotted tripe from anyone as Chess..!?

Wow,.. whole "industries" (military), religions and political parties..!

Of course, I do go after the whole "leftist" political party of thought occassionally (constantly! :) ), but a more blatant screed from the leftist agenda I haven't seen for some time.

I really do hope Chess keeps it up. It REALLY infuriates Chess's leftist buddies, because they don't want to be associated with such a bigotted nasty point of view as that, as it makes them look even less "appetizing" than they usually look.

Keep it up Chess,... we're lovin' it..! :)

[Chess Squares #34]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
And your point was WHAT again..?

Please provide context with your words. Or is that too difficult..?

You seem to be implying that I'm both/either an "ignorant bigot" or "the trained to be blind".

I don't see the connection to my statement that you haven't yet figured out how to use the keyboard and that you are an angry juvenile.

Please enlighten me on your glorious words,.. which amount to "I know you are but what am I..?!"

ignorant bigot

The usual terse answer of a child who's been caught saying a dirty word.

Where am I being an ignorant bigot..?

Could it be simply because I don't believe your childish biggotted holier-than-thou pile of crap..?

Could it be because I called you for the child that you are..?

You call huge and respected segments of an entire population "ignorant and biggoted", and I'M THE ONE you label an ignorant biggot...?

Excellent..! :D

Let's see if you can responde with more than 2 words....

and after reading letter after letter day after day from either idiotic veterans who think Bush is the good person sitting at the button ready to push a button to launch the things he cant pronounces, or ignorant bigoted protestants and baptists and their ilk who think Bush is the savior born again to protect them from equality for homosexuals and advancement in medicine through stem cell research, regardless of where it comes from. then there are just the plain ignorant who just hate liberals because they have chosen themselves to turn a blind eye to the true actions of their own people and refuse to analyse and think outside the republican box.

First off, he says nuclear like a guy from texas.

Show me exactly where a gay person doesn't have the same rights I have. And don't say marriage, it isn't a right.

The main problem with stem cell research is your essentially creating human life in order to destroy it. I'm with the majority of people I know in saying that use the embreyos after birth for stem cell research, it provides the necessary cells and its something they were just going to throw away anyways.

But basically your saying this, the people voting for Bush are doing so becasue they are bigots and blind. You didn't start off that way but the paragraph I just quoted shows it. So please, step outside the liberal box for a second and read what you wrote down again. Its rambling. Its attacking. It shows just as much bigotry as you claim republicans are responsible for. Remember, you support the party of "tolerance" supposedly.

Show me exactly where a gay person doesn't have the same rights I have. And don't say marriage, it isn't a right.
i will, soon as you show me where i said the word "right" or "rights"

The main problem with stem cell research is your essentially creating human life in order to destroy it. I'm with the majority of people I know in saying that use the embreyos after birth for stem cell research, it provides the necessary cells and its something they were just going to throw away anyways.
you CAN obtain stem cells from places OTHER than fetuses, and lets not forget the number of fetuses created from invitro and just thrown away. but shh dont tell the religious nuts that

But basically your saying this, the people voting for Bush are doing so becasue they are bigots and blind. You didn't start off that way but the paragraph I just quoted shows it. So please, step outside the liberal box for a second and read what you wrote down again. Its rambling. Its attacking. It shows just as much bigotry as you claim republicans are responsible for. Remember, you support the party of "tolerance" supposedly.
you show me where i made any statement referring to all people who vote for bush has those characters or even me implying most people who vote for bush have those characteristics

i SAID "people MOST LIKELY TO vote for bush"

the paragraph you quoted was another reference to the same people i was referring to in my first post, it was a reiteration. and please, the inability to say the word nuclear is irrelevant, his general incompetence with the english language however IS a problem. "rarely is the question asked 'is our children learning?' "


and iaekako, stop pretending you are an unbiased person and pretend you only attack liberals becuase they are funny. you are independent like o reilly is.

oh yeah, im ignoring iaekako for be a trolling nuisance

Thank you for supporting your country perpare for the left to undermine you.

The left hasn't been undermining the soldiers it has been against the war, and has often stated it's support for the soldiers and how upset they are that the soldiers have been sent into combat for oil.

i will, soon as you show me where i said the word "right" or "rights"


you CAN obtain stem cells from places OTHER than fetuses, and lets not forget the number of fetuses created from invitro and just thrown away. but shh dont tell the religious nuts that


you show me where i made any statement referring to all people who vote for bush has those characters or even me implying most people who vote for bush have those characteristics

i SAID "people MOST LIKELY TO vote for bush"

the paragraph you quoted was another reference to the same people i was referring to in my first post, it was a reiteration. and please, the inability to say the word nuclear is irrelevant, his general incompetence with the english language however IS a problem. "rarely is the question asked 'is our children learning?' "


and iaekako, stop pretending you are an unbiased person and pretend you only attack liberals because they are funny. you are independent like o reilly is.

Eh, I read that you meant the only ones.

No one thinks O'Rielly is independant. But iaekako is a republican. I have yet to hear a topic when he wasn't.
Walk like a duck, talk like a duck, somehow I think he is a duck.

The left hasn't been undermining the soldiers it has been against the war, and has often stated it's support for the soldiers and how upset they are that the soldiers have been sent into combat for oil.


YOUR IN THE WAR FOR OIL!!!!

Hope that doesn't hurt your moral. Now go get shot at young man.....

YOUR IN THE WAR FOR OIL!!!!

Hope that doesn't hurt your moral. Now go get shot at young man.....
Military's reply: Good we need to reduce those oil prices.

So how is that moral lowering?

YOUR IN THE WAR FOR OIL!!!!

Hope that doesn't hurt your moral. Now go get shot at young man.....
doesnt the US have this excellent filtering system, and i assume there moral would be alot higher if they actually got to come home when they were supposed to and fun stuff like that. dont pretend its just liberal talk hurting the moral.

If Bush wins, go to your local baptist church and say "thanks everyone, start praying for our troops and your future kids" then go to a veterans club and talk to bush supporters and thank them for supporting some one who sends people to war shemlessly and blindly instead of some one who opposes abuses of force and has seen war.

Not to mention someone who cuts veterans' benefits and then has the unmitigated gall to pretend he's concerned for their welfare. Bush is the epitome of hypocrisy.

Not to mention someone who cuts veterans' benefits and then has the unmitigated gall to pretend he's concerned for their welfare. Bush is the epitome of hypocrisy.
wow i said shemlessly? shamelessly

but anyway

i should post this letter from a veteran, and guess what its from a marine, the most brainwashed of the brainwashed

The left hasn't been undermining the soldiers it has been against the war, and has often stated it's support for the soldiers and how upset they are that the soldiers have been sent into combat for oil.

Yea thats it. Bush went into Iraq for oil :rolleyes: . When will the liberals drop this argument. Bush knew we would have trouble after the war and the main target would always be the oil. How can we efficiently harvest oil lines under attack?

Yea thats is. Bush went into Iraq for oil :rolleyes: . When will the liberals drop this argument. Bush knew we would have trouble after the war and the main target would always be the oil. How can we efficiently harvest oil lines under attack?
only the dumbasses think we went to iraq for oil, now we went to war with iraq for revenge is much better

Extremely hateful gross generalizations. Wow, if what you just said is true, you're a complete ignorant bigot yourself.

Do you know WHY I happen to support Bush? Let's take a look at myelf here...
- I'm a college student who comes from an upper-middle class family.
- I've been working very crappy jobs since age 15 (along with the lovely fact that mass amounts of my income are deducted even when I make such a pathetic amount).
- I am anything but religious.
- I don't like war.
- I don't like how quickly we went to war.
- I disagree with Bush quite often.

Now, how do I, in any way, shape, or form match with your little bigoted generalization? GASP! I DON'T! OH NOES!!!

In yet more overuse of bullets, here's why I prefer Bush over anyone else who could be president right now:
- Bush has always been open with his agenda.
- You know where he stands.
- He might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's certainly been smart enough to surround himself with a cabinet with countless years of experience.
- When Bush speaks, you do indeed get the impression that he's saying what he himself truly believes.
- He's been entirely honest in the most technical of senses (no he hasn't lied, look up the verb in the dictionary if you think he has).
- He stands to screw the country up less than anyone else.

I disagree with what he thinks about technological advancement, I disagree with what he says about people's personal freedoms, I disagree with what he says about how involved the government should be, and I disagree with innumerable other things. Why? Because he's the lesser of two evils.

AND STOP BITCHING!
I'll second that

only the dumbasses think we went to iraq for oil, now we went to war with iraq for revenge is much better

Perhaps. But we haven't gone back to Somalia. WHy? No oil. ;)

Perhaps. But we haven't gone back to Somalia. WHy? No oil. ;)
no one to exact revenge on either ;)

Perhaps. But we haven't gone back to Somalia. WHy? No oil. ;)

The best revenge is to let them starve to death.....slowly.

I'll second that
then i pity you and the other purposfully ignorant guy


he stands to screw up the country less than anyone else is in and of itself a stupid statement


its been 4 years under him and the country seems pretty fucked up

[Chess Squares #38]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Derelict
Show me exactly where a gay person doesn't have the same rights I have. And don't say marriage, it isn't a right.


i will, soon as you show me where i said the word "right" or "rights"


Quote:
The main problem with stem cell research is your essentially creating human life in order to destroy it. I'm with the majority of people I know in saying that use the embreyos after birth for stem cell research, it provides the necessary cells and its something they were just going to throw away anyways.


you CAN obtain stem cells from places OTHER than fetuses, and lets not forget the number of fetuses created from invitro and just thrown away. but shh dont tell the religious nuts that


Quote:
But basically your saying this, the people voting for Bush are doing so becasue they are bigots and blind. You didn't start off that way but the paragraph I just quoted shows it. So please, step outside the liberal box for a second and read what you wrote down again. Its rambling. Its attacking. It shows just as much bigotry as you claim republicans are responsible for. Remember, you support the party of "tolerance" supposedly.


you show me where i made any statement referring to all people who vote for bush has those characters or even me implying most people who vote for bush have those characteristics

i SAID "people MOST LIKELY TO vote for bush"

the paragraph you quoted was another reference to the same people i was referring to in my first post, it was a reiteration. and please, the inability to say the word nuclear is irrelevant, his general incompetence with the english language however IS a problem. "rarely is the question asked 'is our children learning?' "


and iaekako, stop pretending you are an unbiased person and pretend you only attack liberals becuase they are funny. you are independent like o reilly is.

Chess flip-flops as much as other well trained flipflopolists, I see..! :)

And resorting to "explaining him/herself" with variants of the "depends on what the definition of IS is..!" formula.

Keep on the backpedalling on your obviously biggoted and overarching comdemnations buckaroo.. You're doing SO poorly.

And as for "incompetence with the language". Have you read your own writing, my friend..!? Thought not.

I don't pretend to be unbiased. Anything BUT..! Anyone who's had ANY intercourse (no snickers please!) with me wouldn't say I'd claim ANY non-bias..! :D

I like prodding leftists until they reveal who truly stupid they are. And when they oblige as you have,.. it's uproariously hilarious.

:D

yarg me troll me use big club yarggg

[BastardSword #41]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Squares
i will, soon as you show me where i said the word "right" or "rights"


you CAN obtain stem cells from places OTHER than fetuses, and lets not forget the number of fetuses created from invitro and just thrown away. but shh dont tell the religious nuts that


you show me where i made any statement referring to all people who vote for bush has those characters or even me implying most people who vote for bush have those characteristics

i SAID "people MOST LIKELY TO vote for bush"

the paragraph you quoted was another reference to the same people i was referring to in my first post, it was a reiteration. and please, the inability to say the word nuclear is irrelevant, his general incompetence with the english language however IS a problem. "rarely is the question asked 'is our children learning?' "


and iaekako, stop pretending you are an unbiased person and pretend you only attack liberals because they are funny. you are independent like o reilly is.



Eh, I read that you meant the only ones.

No one thinks O'Rielly is independant. But iaekako is a republican. I have yet to hear a topic when he wasn't.
Walk like a duck, talk like a duck, somehow I think he is a duck.

Quack... quackity quack quack quack quackity quack.... quackity quack...

Quack..!

:D

i know that i'm a leftie, so feel free to jump all over me after this. i think that supporting either bush or kerry will just hurt our nation more. i think we need to strengthen third parties. i don't care about which one (even peroutka's constitution), but without strong third parties we can't better our society. they would allow people who don't fit in a party to go somewhere else to fit in. i share many values of the democratic party, like pro-choice, higher taxes on the highest earning people in society, and more corporate policing. however, i believe that defense spending, intelligence funds, and putting domestic success before international politics are also important. this puts me in conflict with any party.

i have been drawn to the green party despite the non-violence because they are very protective of the environment (i don't count democrats as environmentalists because clinton actually did worse on that than bush has done so far, but that's mainly because of the bad economy). they also support grassroots democracy which would protect people from the government (do i sound paranoid?). it was really too bad that nader lost his nomination at the convention. he was a true believer. well, maybe cobb can do something with the party.

i am very opposed to bush being in power. he lost the election in all but the supreme court's collective mind. he hasn't helped the economy, he won a war with clinton's military, but said that clinton had failed on allocating enough money for the military. he went into iraq to take their oil and cause a drop in oil prices, but they are nearing record prices. he is fighting a guerilla war using a conventional military. he let the cia director take a huge amount of blame for not stopping the terrorist attacks on 9/11. he trashed clinton's plan to attack afganistan and remove the taliban from power before 9/11.

9/11, you expect me to blame that on bush, don't you? well i don't. he didn't help to stop it, but it isn't his fault. it isn't the cia's fault either. the blame can only be on the terrorists the commited these crimes. they just about couldn't be stopped. if they didn't want metal detectors to stop them they could get carbon composite knives. a carbon composite axe could hack through cockpit doors. if they never say anything on radios, phones, through mail, or online then we had to have agents on the ground to listen in. that is nearly impossible in their organizations. this is a much different enemy than the soviets, yet we want to fight them in the same way. to win this war we need to find people who are true believers in islam. people that don't want to kill people that can blend in with these terrorist groups and get information for us. the problem is that there aren't enough who will risk their families and friends like this. this war on terror is just about impossible to win.

if you really support the same issues as bush, and believe that he will actually help the country, vote for him. if you don't then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. same with those who support kerry that way. if you don't agree with either or don't believe that they can help the country then take a look at the third parties. if you don't find a candidate that you agree with then don't vote.

I'm for Bush.

Dear God, a pair o' trolls! (Chess and Iake) One from each side. Why does everyone complain about taxes? I used to make $18/hour and got taxed about 21%. I got about half back as a refund. I only had to work about 1 week a month to pay my expenses. I work in the civil engineering field, and there are major concerns that infrastructure (freeways, water, sewer systems) is not adequately maintained / developed. I'd be happy to pay double the taxes to make sure the infrastructure runs as efficiently as possible. It's the one of the foundations of our economy.

If we spent $400 billion extra a year on education or deloping asteroid mining techniques, in 30 years, America would be unstoppable. Why the hell a country would underfund education is beyond me. Oh, Greed, I forgot. We can just continue to starve schools in inner city areas, and toss the undereducated sots in jail when they become a nuisance. Plus, with the extra $1000 a year you make in tax cuts, you might be able to afford to live in that "gated community" you've been hoping to get into. Cool! Another set of bars between you and them.

This country can't afford to have children that are only educated enough to be factory workers - our standard of living is too high. Move those jobs to third world countries, whose economies can afford pay rates low enough to manufacture things efficiently. Then we can turn America into a land of highly educated technicians, engineers, and scientists who can put all these inexpensively manufactured goods to good use developing the next batch of technological goodies to help increase the standard of living in third world countries. Then continue that cycle out into space, on to Mars and keep going.

Aw screw it, let's just bomb those brown fuckers, because they're not human anyway.

15,000 Iraqi CIVILIANS dead. Not terrorists, not soldiers. Men, women and children just like you and me. 3000 Americans dead on 9/11? Spend the war money making cars safer, we'll save that many people per year. Or, spend the money training Special Forces soldiers, who are a whole lot more discriminate about whom they kill than a 2000 pound bomb.
That's why I'm not voting for Bush.

oh look some one INTELLIGENT

*gives the guy above me a gold star*

I like Bush and Mr. Fatman is going to be across the street where I live on Friday.

Your political, economic and social views are your views
and you have a right to them, but are other persons
who support other candidates like Bush, Badnarik, Nader,
Cobb, or others the names you have called Bush supporters?

I support Bush, and I have never and will never call Kerry those names.
I just dont agree with him that is my right and that is all.

I'm so glad I'm not American right now...

From what I understand there is a potential political stand-off about to take place in your neck of the woods, too.

vote for Nader, people

he's the only real democrat out there as well as the green party

the current democrats are acting like republican wannabes

the definition of a bigot - when a conservative is winning an argument with a liberal.

:sniper: You loser how can you really think that all people that support Bush are idiots? They should hunt you down for that and make you take that statement back and shove it where the sun don't shine. :gundge: I believe that Bush has done more for this country than Kerry can ever shake a stick at (and that is one big stick). :mp5: Kerry is a stupid democrat that lies about everything that comes out of his mouth. over 200 people were asked if they think Kerry is telling the truth, only 2 of them think he is and one of them is on his pay roll. :headbang:

Oogerboogerstan, your handle doesn't reveal it, but you're clever and insightful. You rock! *hug*

I'm for Bush.
judging by name and previous posts you prove my point, thanks for posting

:sniper: You loser how can you really think that all people that support Bush are idiots? They should hunt you down for that and make you take that statement back and shove it where the sun don't shine. :gundge: I believe that Bush has done more for this country than Kerry can ever shake a stick at (and that is one big stick). :mp5: Kerry is a stupid democrat that lies about everything that comes out of his mouth. over 200 people were asked if they think Kerry is telling the truth, only 2 of them think he is and one of them is on his pay roll. :headbang:
*cuts the puppets strings

Your political, economic and social views are your views
and you have a right to them, but are other persons
who support other candidates like Bush, Badnarik, Nader,
Cobb, or others the names you have called Bush supporters?

I support Bush, and I have never and will never call Kerry those names.
I just dont agree with him that is my right and that is all.
i have repeatedly reiterated this but i suppose if you are illiterate to begin with repeating it wont help

i did NOT call all bush supporters those names nor did i say all bush supporters are those people

i CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY STATED, those are the people most likely to vote for bush, whether other people support bush and do not fall into those categories is a moot point becausei am NOT talking about them

http://www.regimechange.us/images/NBK324_2.jpg

seriously though, i really don't care. i just felt like a laugh.

Oogerboogerstan, your handle doesn't reveal it, but you're clever and insightful. You rock! *hug*
*sniffle* I use whimsy as a defense mechansim. :(

Cool, my first day on the job and I'm getting hugs from foreign dignitaries (with suspiciously large ears.) Maybe I'll reconsider that whole "psychotic despot" thing...

Thank you for supporting your country perpare for the left to undermine you.

The left wants to feel safe and secure, but they also wanna ridicule and demoralize our troops whenever they get a chance.

I hear the crap from the left, it's always the same old crap "talking points"
Blah blah lah, "the left" this, "the left" that! Can't you people ever criticise anyone other than the mysterious monolith known as "the left"?

No Bush Sucks !!!

:sniper: You loser how can you really think that all people that support Bush are idiots? They should hunt you down for that and make you take that statement back and shove it where the sun don't shine. :gundge: I believe that Bush has done more for this country than Kerry can ever shake a stick at (and that is one big stick). :mp5: Kerry is a stupid democrat that lies about everything that comes out of his mouth. over 200 people were asked if they think Kerry is telling the truth, only 2 of them think he is and one of them is on his pay roll. :headbang:
Has anyone else noticed that whenever someone makes a post assertively supporting Bush, they always include plenty of snipers?

Bush's re-election chances :sniper:

The highly religious apply their generaly ignorant biggotry...

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here... but I cannot help but wonder how you expect to be taken seriously. Can you see the irony? You rant about the supposed ignorance of your opponents, yet can't even spell said opponents' faults correctly. You're not convincing anyone.

According to Bush, passing the "global test" is "hard work" because creating an air of legitimacy by actually telling the truth would take too long. Apparently, telling his own people the truth is equivalent to allowing other countries to have veto power.

Now, I'm not saying that all Bush supporters are idiots, but if you swallow his line of reasoning about the "global test" then you deserve the gagging feeling you get soon after.

I threw my freinds medals over the fence cuz i just forgot them that day sorry... (i used that one years ago when i forget my homework in elementary school... they knew i was bullshiting when i got to middle school though.. damn)

I voted for the first War. I voted for the second War. I voted against my comrades in arms having money for body armor, bullets and medical care.

I love taxes. But i say i will cut them cuz thats what u want to hear. But BUSH cant because i will.

I look like Lurch of the Adams Family.

I look like a cheese eating surrender monkey (and act like one).

I love to get close with Edwards. Havent u seen the pics?

I will take your money and give it away to the people living in the projects so they can get jobs! (thats why they all have jobs now! and dont buy drugs and dont murder eachother! and dont sing about it MTV)

I WON MEDALS!! I AM A HERO!!!! I AM A WAR HERO!!! Ever heard a real war hero say that?

I brang film crews to film me in vietnam so i could LOOK like a war torn HERO. CUZ I AM ONE!!! I AM A HERO!!! notice i have to tell you because you didnt know that already.

I have a plan for iraq. I will train the Iraqi military and police. I will hold elections. I have a plan. But i find my troops dont need money for bullets and armor to kill the guys blowing up hospitals and UN buildings.

I make plan simple sense! Dont u get it? NO? because u are brainwashed by BUSH did i mention i will do what it takes to WIN in iraq but my troops shouldnt have money for bullets and medical care. they should just die or something, but i will WIN... with my own plan.

Its more a party election than anything else. Kerry is actaully a good example of democrats. He just needs to rape someone first though like the last democrat in office. Then get his secretaries to give him head. Republicans uhm they cut taxes. They... They... god damn help me here oh yeah they go to war. THATS BAD WAR IS BAD. but we love 9-11 we love getting attacked... lets just get nucked. that will be a republicans fault.

i say keep the clinton approach.. bomb empty pointless buildings whenever we get attacked then we will get nucked cuz thats what democrats want. (left voted against missile defence plan)

Extremely hateful gross generalizations. Wow, if what you just said is true, you're a complete ignorant bigot yourself.

Do you know WHY I happen to support Bush? Let's take a look at myelf here...
- I'm a college student who comes from an upper-middle class family.
- I've been working very crappy jobs since age 15 (along with the lovely fact that mass amounts of my income are deducted even when I make such a pathetic amount).
- I am anything but religious.
- I don't like war.
- I don't like how quickly we went to war.
- I disagree with Bush quite often.

Now, how do I, in any way, shape, or form match with your little bigoted generalization? GASP! I DON'T! OH NOES!!!

In yet more overuse of bullets, here's why I prefer Bush over anyone else who could be president right now:
- Bush has always been open with his agenda.
- You know where he stands.
- He might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's certainly been smart enough to surround himself with a cabinet with countless years of experience.
- When Bush speaks, you do indeed get the impression that he's saying what he himself truly believes.
- He's been entirely honest in the most technical of senses (no he hasn't lied, look up the verb in the dictionary if you think he has).
- He stands to screw the country up less than anyone else.

I disagree with what he thinks about technological advancement, I disagree with what he says about people's personal freedoms, I disagree with what he says about how involved the government should be, and I disagree with innumerable other things. Why? Because he's the lesser of two evils.

AND STOP BITCHING!

He's hit the nail on the head

btw this my profile

- I'm a college student who comes from an lower-middle class family.
- I've been working very crappy jobs since age 17 (along with the lovely fact that mass amounts of my income are deducted even when I make such a pathetic amount).
- I am anything but religious.
- I don't like war.
- I don't like how quickly we went to war.
- I disagree with Bush quite often.

[Noyents #57]
i know that i'm a leftie, so feel free to jump all over me after this. i think that supporting either bush or kerry will just hurt our nation more. i think we need to strengthen third parties. i don't care about which one (even peroutka's constitution), but without strong third parties we can't better our society. they would allow people who don't fit in a party to go somewhere else to fit in. i share many values of the democratic party, like pro-choice, higher taxes on the highest earning people in society, and more corporate policing. however, i believe that defense spending, intelligence funds, and putting domestic success before international politics are also important. this puts me in conflict with any party.

i have been drawn to the green party despite the non-violence because they are very protective of the environment (i don't count democrats as environmentalists because clinton actually did worse on that than bush has done so far, but that's mainly because of the bad economy). they also support grassroots democracy which would protect people from the government (do i sound paranoid?). it was really too bad that nader lost his nomination at the convention. he was a true believer. well, maybe cobb can do something with the party.

i am very opposed to bush being in power. he lost the election in all but the supreme court's collective mind. he hasn't helped the economy, he won a war with clinton's military, but said that clinton had failed on allocating enough money for the military. he went into iraq to take their oil and cause a drop in oil prices, but they are nearing record prices. he is fighting a guerilla war using a conventional military. he let the cia director take a huge amount of blame for not stopping the terrorist attacks on 9/11. he trashed clinton's plan to attack afganistan and remove the taliban from power before 9/11.

9/11, you expect me to blame that on bush, don't you? well i don't. he didn't help to stop it, but it isn't his fault. it isn't the cia's fault either. the blame can only be on the terrorists the commited these crimes. they just about couldn't be stopped. if they didn't want metal detectors to stop them they could get carbon composite knives. a carbon composite axe could hack through cockpit doors. if they never say anything on radios, phones, through mail, or online then we had to have agents on the ground to listen in. that is nearly impossible in their organizations. this is a much different enemy than the soviets, yet we want to fight them in the same way. to win this war we need to find people who are true believers in islam. people that don't want to kill people that can blend in with these terrorist groups and get information for us. the problem is that there aren't enough who will risk their families and friends like this. this war on terror is just about impossible to win.

if you really support the same issues as bush, and believe that he will actually help the country, vote for him. if you don't then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. same with those who support kerry that way. if you don't agree with either or don't believe that they can help the country then take a look at the third parties. if you don't find a candidate that you agree with then don't vote.




.."i think we need to strengthen third parties. i don't care about which one (even peroutka's constitution), but without strong third parties we can't better our society."..

Third-parties will always be a minor issue in the US. American stability and strength is built on the concept that the government should be as un-free as possible, and the people should be as free as possible.

If you want to live in a european country, they are placed in Europe, and there are several ways of getting there these days.

If you want to live in some other, even less desirable, country, it's possible to reach them as well.

If you want to live in America, get used to reality.

I'm not actually saying "Love it of Leave it!",.. more like "Get used to it, or not, but it's not changing!"

wow, the whole of page 6 is filled with jackasses

I'm not actually saying "Love it of Leave it!",.. more like "Get used to it, or not, but it's not changing!"

It has changed and will continue to change, or did you not realize that the Republican party was once a thirdy party?

Things that were previously thought to be the norm change all the time. How would women have felt if you said to them, prior to women's sufferage, "Hey, you may want to vote, but get used to it, it ain't going to change!"

The same could be said about the abolishion of child labor. The ability of workers to unionize. The end of the cold war.

In fact, how can we expect a Fundamentalist Islam State (Afghanistan,) to make the radical change from brutal theocracy to free market democracy if we ourselves are unable to change such a relatively little thing as the political party power structure? It makes no sense at all. How can you be so hopeful for others, and yet so pessimistic about ourselves?

wow, the whole of page 6 is filled with jackasses

Hey! What have I said that's so bad?

What a question. Bush or Kerry? Bush is an idiot. And im really confused that about 50% of the americans are supporting him. The whole World is against Bush. which is true. For example in germany, where i come from, most of the people are anti-american now. Before the time of Bush, many of us were fascinated by the american way of life.
Well, Kerry wouldn´t be the perfect president, but hes better then Bush.
And to say another thing: i hate two party systems. In america, you only have the choice between Democrates and Republikans, right-winged and ultra-rigth winged. In Germany its nearly as bad as in america. The choice beetween CDU or SPD. Right-middle or left-middle. Luckily, both of these partys cant get enough votes to control the government. The little Partys often are needed to get a law through the parliament (Bundestag)
Well, hard to understand this posting ^^"

Hey! What have I said that's so bad?
well the rest of the people yo uare ok

I threw my freinds medals over the fence cuz i just forgot them that day sorry... (i used that one years ago when i forget my homework in elementary school... they knew i was bullshiting when i got to middle school though.. damn)

Wrong... he threw medals that belonged to DISABLED VETERANS who could not throw them over the tall fence... he threw his rank/decoration ribbons. He KEPT his medals.

I voted for the first War. I voted for the second War. I voted against my comrades in arms having money for body armor, bullets and medical care.

He voted against the budget increase because of riders... read it. Oh, and if we'd waited to PLAN for this war, the soldiers would have had the equpment they needed BEFORE they got to Iraq. He voted in favor of giving the President the power to declare war on Iraq if all other means of negotiations failed. Bush immediately sent troops. If he had exhausted other, more diplomatic negotiations first, the boys would have had the appropriate equipment. Kerry voted AGAINST diminishing the soldier's combat pay while they were over there, too... Bush proposed that in the first place. So, is he for our troops or against them?

I love taxes. But i say i will cut them cuz thats what u want to hear. But BUSH cant because i will.

Pardon me? Kerry proposes raising taxes for the highest income earners in the country. That will increase revenue for the government. Bush gave the LARGEST portion of the tax cut to the highest wage-earners...

I look like Lurch of the Adams Family.

Looks (and acts) like Curious George. Anyone remember the premise of those stories? George destroys something (like an ice cream story) after the man in the yellow hat says he shouldn't touch it... he does one thing that's good (that doesn't necessarily clean up the mess he made) and he gets off scot free... sound familiar?

I look like a cheese eating surrender monkey (and act like one).

Most of the ape imagery is tied to Bush...

I love to get close with Edwards. Havent u seen the pics?

Hmm... troll much? It seems that your overfond of making accusations and less fond of providing facts.

I will take your money and give it away to the people living in the projects so they can get jobs! (thats why they all have jobs now! and dont buy drugs and dont murder eachother! and dont sing about it MTV)

Hmm... I grew up in the projects... I now teach English at public schools and made my way through college on academic scholarships and government grants. What are you implying here?

I WON MEDALS!! I AM A HERO!!!! I AM A WAR HERO!!! Ever heard a real war hero say that?

He never said he was a hero... he said he was wounded in combat and received purple hearts, and that his combat experience gives him a unique qualification to be the Commander in Chief right now, during a war... I bet you didn't whine about Bob Dole's "M on my forehead in blood so I wouldn't be given an overdose of morphine" story.

I brang film crews to film me in vietnam so i could LOOK like a war torn HERO. CUZ I AM ONE!!! I AM A HERO!!! notice i have to tell you because you didnt know that already.

As an English teacher, I feel it is my duty to point out that "brang" is not a word... "brought" is past tense of the verb "to bring". I addressed the war hero section of this in my previous paragraph.

I have a plan for iraq. I will train the Iraqi military and police. I will hold elections. I have a plan. But i find my troops dont need money for bullets and armor to kill the guys blowing up hospitals and UN buildings.

*yawn* Bush sent them there without the proper equipment. He's been forking out money to iron out the wrinkles of his strategy-free war campaign. Do your research.

I make plan simple sense! Dont u get it? NO? because u are brainwashed by BUSH did i mention i will do what it takes to WIN in iraq but my troops shouldnt have money for bullets and medical care. they should just die or something, but i will WIN... with my own plan.

Here's the thing, if you actually read up on his platform and is strategy for winning in Iraq, you wouldn't have all these unfounded arguments. He voted for the budget increase BEFORE they added riders that included the no-bid contract for Haliburton... Do your homework.

[Oogerboogerstan #59]
Dear God, a pair o' trolls! (Chess and Iake) One from each side. Why does everyone complain about taxes? I used to make $18/hour and got taxed about 21%. I got about half back as a refund. I only had to work about 1 week a month to pay my expenses. I work in the civil engineering field, and there are major concerns that infrastructure (freeways, water, sewer systems) is not adequately maintained / developed. I'd be happy to pay double the taxes to make sure the infrastructure runs as efficiently as possible. It's the one of the foundations of our economy.

If we spent $400 billion extra a year on education or deloping asteroid mining techniques, in 30 years, America would be unstoppable. Why the hell a country would underfund education is beyond me. Oh, Greed, I forgot. We can just continue to starve schools in inner city areas, and toss the undereducated sots in jail when they become a nuisance. Plus, with the extra $1000 a year you make in tax cuts, you might be able to afford to live in that "gated community" you've been hoping to get into. Cool! Another set of bars between you and them.

This country can't afford to have children that are only educated enough to be factory workers - our standard of living is too high. Move those jobs to third world countries, whose economies can afford pay rates low enough to manufacture things efficiently. Then we can turn America into a land of highly educated technicians, engineers, and scientists who can put all these inexpensively manufactured goods to good use developing the next batch of technological goodies to help increase the standard of living in third world countries. Then continue that cycle out into space, on to Mars and keep going.

Aw screw it, let's just bomb those brown fuckers, because they're not human anyway.

15,000 Iraqi CIVILIANS dead. Not terrorists, not soldiers. Men, women and children just like you and me. 3000 Americans dead on 9/11? Spend the war money making cars safer, we'll save that many people per year. Or, spend the money training Special Forces soldiers, who are a whole lot more discriminate about whom they kill than a 2000 pound bomb.
That's why I'm not voting for Bush.

Excellent..! :D

I agree,.. we have the capability to make the US into a highly educated and prosperous place. Even more so than it is now, compared to the rest of the world.

Will we choose to invest in free education through a masters degree? Probably not. Why? Because we'd have to:

*) pay all the people and institutions doing the educating,
*) and demand strict requirements of all those being educated,
*) and punish those who went back on their requirements,

..and the enforcement of those requirements would be seen as "lowering the self esteem and potential prospects" of the rule-breakers, which would demand more money to "solve", which would require more personnel to implement, which would NOT solve the problem and yet make more students reliant on "assistance", which would require more teachers, which would require more money, which would.... repeat indefinately.

I suggest letting the market sort it out, with some additions:
*) All schools adopt a standard "real skills" curriculum (language/math/science),
*) all teachers be held accountable (summarily termination-able) for their individual student's performance,
*) all non-conforming students be tracked out to "lesser skilled" areas of study,
*) all graduating students be placed in an institution (school, preferably of their choice) through a masters degree course of study,
*) all students who fail to "keep up" are released into the "work world" unceremoniously.

Would this change much. Maybe. Maybe not. But just saying "spend more money on it" is simply wishful thinking that shows a level of frustration, but little more thinking than that.

People die in war. A terrible fact. Are the civilian casualties "worth it"..? Ask the people who were freed from evil as well as the people who lost loved ones.

Were the civilian casualties of WWII worth it..? You decide.

The future will tell if it was worth it. And to whom. :)

(( And if you could define "troll", I'd be much appreciative. ))

After reading the local letters to the editor again, i have just found out what people are most likely to support Bush: ignorant bigots and trained to be blind

More specifically: the hardcore religious: baptists and other protestant religions, and the former military

The former military are brainwashed into doing whatever htey are told and believing whatever they are told is right. period. They blindly accept whatever the president does and ignores his faults and trarget anyone who opposes him with ignorant disregard.

The highly religious apply their generaly ignorant biggotry to the far more intelligent Kerry and end up opposing him becuase he stands for moving the nation forward and not bending to the whims of the people who would control this nation and make it a theocracy like Bush. They support anything Bush does because he says "God is on our side" and he likes enforcing his religious views on people: not funding stem cel lresearch (which is irrelevant ot abortion), making aboriton illegal and outlawing homosexuality. Heaven forbid we disagree with the New Crusade and we support equal rights for people who are different than us and support the advancement of medical knowledge and technology.

If Bush wins, go to your local baptist church and say "thanks everyone, start praying for our troops and your future kids" then go to a veterans club and talk to bush supporters and thank them for supporting some one who sends people to war shemlessly and blindly instead of some one who opposes abuses of force and has seen war.

Actually the current military heavily supports President Bush as well. Abortion can be seen also as murder, and I find it interesting that those who oppose our action in Iraq, support murder in the instance of an unborn child.

[Gymoor #83]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
I'm not actually saying "Love it of Leave it!",.. more like "Get used to it, or not, but it's not changing!"


It has changed and will continue to change, or did you not realize that the Republican party was once a thirdy party?

Things that were previously thought to be the norm change all the time. How would women have felt if you said to them, prior to women's sufferage, "Hey, you may want to vote, but get used to it, it ain't going to change!"

The same could be said about the abolishion of child labor. The ability of workers to unionize. The end of the cold war.

In fact, how can we expect a Fundamentalist Islam State (Afghanistan,) to make the radical change from brutal theocracy to free market democracy if we ourselves are unable to change such a relatively little thing as the political party power structure? It makes no sense at all. How can you be so hopeful for others, and yet so pessimistic about ourselves?

And keep up the good work..! :) Make your changes happen. That's your job, and my job.

.."How can you be so hopeful for others, and yet so pessimistic about ourselves?"..

I'm NOT pessimistic about ourselves. I see the two-party system as an extremely good thing, while you don't.

Your inability to see "sense" in what I say is precisely your inability to admit that anyone with an opinion other than yours HAS any "sense".

My opinion is that a radical shift of American political structure toward a multi-party "euro-mobocracy" would be a BAD thing. The "political party power structure", as you put it, is NOT a little thing, to me. It is THE thing as to how our government operates. To alter it significantly is to alter America. I'm not in favor of fundamentally altering America.

You obviously hold an opposing position. That's dandy my friend..! :D

Actually the current military heavily supports President Bush as well. Abortion can be seen also as murder, and I find it interesting that those who oppose our action in Iraq, support murder in the instance of an unborn child.
murder of an unborn child

go go gadget oxymoron!

how do you murder something that isnt born? maybe you should stop genocide and outlaw male masturbation and require all females to take birth control

Extremely hateful gross generalizations. Wow, if what you just said is true, you're a complete ignorant bigot yourself.

Do you know WHY I happen to support Bush? Let's take a look at myelf here...
- I'm a college student who comes from an upper-middle class family.
- I've been working very crappy jobs since age 15 (along with the lovely fact that mass amounts of my income are deducted even when I make such a pathetic amount).
- I am anything but religious.
- I don't like war.
- I don't like how quickly we went to war.
- I disagree with Bush quite often.

Now, how do I, in any way, shape, or form match with your little bigoted generalization? GASP! I DON'T! OH NOES!!!

In yet more overuse of bullets, here's why I prefer Bush over anyone else who could be president right now:
- Bush has always been open with his agenda.
- You know where he stands.
- He might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's certainly been smart enough to surround himself with a cabinet with countless years of experience.
- When Bush speaks, you do indeed get the impression that he's saying what he himself truly believes.
- He's been entirely honest in the most technical of senses (no he hasn't lied, look up the verb in the dictionary if you think he has).
- He stands to screw the country up less than anyone else.

I disagree with what he thinks about technological advancement, I disagree with what he says about people's personal freedoms, I disagree with what he says about how involved the government should be, and I disagree with innumerable other things. Why? Because he's the lesser of two evils.

AND STOP BITCHING!

I agree. I support Bush. I was in the Army for 3 years and would love to sign up again if I had been medically discharged. So he's not a genius. Who thinks Kerry is? So he went to harvard. Look back at past presidents-Where did President Kennedy attend college? Where did Kerry attend? And honestly, I prefer a President who can laugh at himself and will take a stand otehr than regurgitating what the polls say America wants to hear like Bush's opponent.

I agree. I support Bush. I was in the Army for 3 years and would love to sign up again if I had been medically discharged. So he's not a genius. Who thinks Kerry is? So he went to harvard. Look back at past presidents-Where did President Kennedy attend college? Where did Kerry attend? And honestly, I prefer a President who can laugh at himself and will take a stand otehr than regurgitating what the polls say America wants to hear like Bush's opponent.congratulations, you are in the "programmed ignorance" category

see how people are so easy to categorize? and im damn good at it

i would explain how you are ignorant, but ive whipped that dead horse so much there isnt anything left there



and you know what I find interesting, how many people can put the right of an unborn fetus ahead of the rights of people who are already alive and innocent of any crime or offense

murder of an unborn child

go go gadget oxymoron!

how do you murder something that isnt born? maybe you should stop genocide and outlaw male masturbation and require all females to take birth control

I actually, partially, agree with you..However, to those who would outlaw it, I admit they have a case, this*thing*unborn or not, has a heartbeat, etc...and easily could be considered as much alive as are many other things which have fewer life signs.

just because i am religious does not make me stupid or ignorant that entire comment is very closed minded.. and not to mention offensive. But i will not insult you belive what you want. just a thought

Who supports that criminal president?

Corneliu does, says enough about his moral standards.

I don't, says enough about my decency.

[Chess Squares #91]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takrai
Actually the current military heavily supports President Bush as well. Abortion can be seen also as murder, and I find it interesting that those who oppose our action in Iraq, support murder in the instance of an unborn child.

murder of an unborn child

go go gadget oxymoron!

how do you murder something that isnt born? maybe you should stop genocide and outlaw male masturbation and require all females to take birth control

For someone who can't figure out how to use the shift key, your pretty facile with redefining "murder"...

And wouldn't requiring all females to "take birth control" (the pill?) be requiring them to "murder" their ovum, which the person you're commenting on certainly WOULDN'T want..?

Chessy can't even keep Chessy's logic straight. :D

congratulations, you are in the "programmed ignorance" category

see how people are so easy to categorize? and im damn good at it

i would explain how you are ignorant, but ive whipped that dead horse so much there isnt anything left there



and you know what I find interesting, how many people can put the right of an unborn fetus ahead of the rights of people who are already alive and innocent of any crime or offense

Your inflammatory remarks are typical, you talk of those who have seen war, I have, you have perhaps seen it in a Hollywood script, not real life. BTW, Bush went to Harvard as well, and actually had a 3.8GPA, which I imagine to be much higher than your own, if indeed you are in a college atmosphere, which I also doubt sincerely. More likely, you are one of the pampered ones who take your belief as gospel while ridiculing all those against you. You likely have zero personal experience in anything in the real world, yet you prefer to critique those who have that experience from your sheltered position.

[Mr Basil Fawlty #96]
Who supports that criminal president?

Corneliu does, says enough about his moral standards.

I don't, says enough about my decency.

Who supports that war-criminal wanna-be president..?

Basil does,.. says quite a lot about his moral standards and cap size.

I don't,.. says enough about my superior morals and greater cap size.

I actually, partially, agree with you..However, to those who would outlaw it, I admit they have a case, this*thing*unborn or not, has a heartbeat, etc...and easily could be considered as much alive as are many other things which have fewer life signs.
BUT, there ARE points at which the "thing" has no lfie signs, at all. and they would argue that the creature is still alive an entitled to rights they would not guarantee to live people at many times

Your inflammatory remarks are typical, you talk of those who have seen war, I have, you have perhaps seen it in a Hollywood script, not real life. BTW, Bush went to Harvard as well, and actually had a 3.8GPA, which I imagine to be much higher than your own, if indeed you are in a college atmosphere, which I also doubt sincerely. More likely, you are one of the pampered ones who take your belief as gospel while ridiculing all those against you. You likely have zero personal experience in anything in the real world, yet you prefer to critique those who have that experience from your sheltered position.
last i checked he grauduated from either yale or harvard i forget which with a C in business

like i said, i could quite easily expand on why you are ignorant, but there isnt anything left to whip of the horse

BUT, there ARE points at which the "thing" has no lfie signs, at all. and they would argue that the creature is still alive an entitled to rights they would not guarantee to live people at many times

The point is, once people have a voice, they can defend their own rights, an unborn baby(again, assuming it is alive) has no ability to defend itself, hence the greater care taken to preserve its rights, just as we do also with even children, etc.

[Chess Squares #100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takrai
I actually, partially, agree with you..However, to those who would outlaw it, I admit they have a case, this*thing*unborn or not, has a heartbeat, etc...and easily could be considered as much alive as are many other things which have fewer life signs.

BUT, there ARE points at which the "thing" has no lfie signs, at all. and they would argue that the creature is still alive an entitled to rights they would not guarantee to live people at many times

WOW,... Chessy found the shift key..!

Must have had help. :D

last i checked he grauduated from either yale or harvard i forget which with a C in business

like i said, i could quite easily expand on why you are ignorant, but there isnt anything left to whip of the horse

You are running out of lines chess ;) He graduated from Harvard, his Masters came from *I think*Yale. His grades were with distinction.
As for myself, I do not really care much what you think of me. I earned my way to where I am now on hard work and study. I came from a family of hard working steel industry types, and pursued and obtained my degree, and am an officer in the US Army, with not much left to prove, especially to the uninformed masses who take their news at 3rd hand and are too lazy to check facts, or at those who make all assuming assumptions such as your first post in this thread, without stopping to realize there IS another side, whose arguments though you may disagree with, are quite valid.

Your inflammatory remarks are typical, you talk of those who have seen war, I have, you have perhaps seen it in a Hollywood script, not real life. .

Most people that saw action don't speak like you, so you lie.
I saw a lot of kiddo's without arguments defending themselves with the adagio "Hey, I saw action" sorry to say, you're so typical.

Well, let me say that I eat soldiers for breakfast and as a mountainguide, I do train them and find most of them in very bad shape. Something I saw when some of my client-friends from Pitsburgh went climbing The Drus pillon at Cham: the ex marine under them was the weakest chain in the groop and had performed very badly on the moral plan after the (mixt) avalanche wich hurted one of us very bad.

US (and others nations ones to,but a little less since they are older and more experienced then the US rookies) soldiers perform very bad and panic quickly in a hostile, unnkown territory.

One of the reasons that I don't believe your BS history is the way you just speak at Chess Squares. My buddies (US to) never would be so ridiculous.

They saw action in 1991 and you kiddo are a shame for them... :upyours: Why do extreme republicans allways wan't to bring lies like their army history on when they lack arguments in a debate? :rolleyes:

We all know that you lie and never served. Perhaps you saw some war movies on FOX and are mixing up your wishes and reallity. Remember boy, Hollywood is a place for ya, real war not.

Most people that saw action don't speak like you, so you lie.
I saw a lot of kiddo's without arguments defending themselves with the adagio "Hey, I saw action" sorry to say, you're so typical.

Well, let me say that I eat soldiers for breakfast and as a mountainguide, I do train them and find most of them in very bad shape. Something I saw when some of my client-friends from Pitsburgh went climbing The Drus pillon at Cham: the ex marine under them was the weakest chain in the groop and had performed very badly on the moral plan after the (mixt) avalanche wich hurted one of us very bad.

US (and others nations ones to,but a little less since they are older and more experienced then the US rookies) soldiers perform very bad and panic quickly in a hostile, unnkown territory.

One of the reasons that I don't believe your BS history is the way you just speak at Chess Squares. My buddies (US to) never would be so ridiculous.

They saw action in 1991 and you kiddo are a shame for them... :upyours: Why do extreme republicans allways wan't to bring lies like their army history on when they lack arguments in a debate? :rolleyes:

We all know that you lie and never served. Perhaps you saw some war movies on FOX and are mixing up your wishes and reallity. Remember boy, Hollywood is a place for ya, real war not.

As I said, I have nothing to prove. I however can virtually guarantee that if your statement is correct, you never have spoken to anyone who has seen action.While my tone may have been harsh, it is a growing thread in most of us who have returned from action and see the absolutely ridiculous attitudes of many(not the majority) back home.
And as for lies, your posts are full of them. Also your knowledge of US troops is sadly way off, which is the main reason I see to reply here. I am currently assigned as a Captain with the 4th Infantry Division HQ. Prior to that I served during Operation Iraqi Freedom with recconnaissance battalion 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division. I did not see action in 1991, and YOU are the shame to your "friends" with your remarks on these boards. My unit saw near constant action in and around Kirkuk most of the past year. And as for eating soldiers for breakfast, you have never had an appetite large enough for anything other than an appetizer I am sure. The marine in question probably was retired. For certain no cavalryman ever would have any troubles, I have climbed most of the peaks in the US, and while yours in Europe may be higher, I seriously doubt it would be an order of magnitude.
Finally, our soldiers are not drafted like yours. Our professional soldiers are quite more experienced than the "other "nations you mentioned, as most serve much longer tours of duty.

murder of an unborn child

go go gadget oxymoron!

how do you murder something that isnt born? maybe you should stop genocide and outlaw male masturbation and require all females to take birth control

It a living human that not fully complete. But, it is still a human which by killing the unborn child is murder.

I support Bush!!

It a living human that not fully complete. But, it is still a human which by killing the unborn child is murder.

I support Bush!!
english is your friend

As I said, I have nothing to prove. I however can virtually guarantee that if your statement is correct, you never have spoken to anyone who has seen action.While my tone may have been harsh, it is a growing thread in most of us who have returned from action and see the absolutely ridiculous attitudes of many(not the majority) back home.
And as for lies, your posts are full of them. Also your knowledge of US troops is sadly way off, which is the main reason I see to reply here. I am currently assigned as a Captain with the 4th Infantry Division HQ. Prior to that I served during Operation Iraqi Freedom with recconnaissance battalion 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division. I did not see action in 1991, and YOU are the shame to your "friends" with your remarks on these boards. My unit saw near constant action in and around Kirkuk most of the past year. And as for eating soldiers for breakfast, you have never had an appetite large enough for anything other than an appetizer I am sure. The marine in question probably was retired. For certain no cavalryman ever would have any troubles, I have climbed most of the peaks in the US, and while yours in Europe may be higher, I seriously doubt it would be an order of magnitude.
Finally, our soldiers are not drafted like yours. Our professional soldiers are quite more experienced than the "other "nations you mentioned, as most serve much longer tours of duty.
when you can post something that is relevant to anything i said, by all means go ahead. so far, you are nowhere near topic and i havnt the slightests what you are ranting your head off about

You are running out of lines chess ;) He graduated from Harvard, his Masters came from *I think*Yale. His grades were with distinction.
As for myself, I do not really care much what you think of me. I earned my way to where I am now on hard work and study. I came from a family of hard working steel industry types, and pursued and obtained my degree, and am an officer in the US Army, with not much left to prove, especially to the uninformed masses who take their news at 3rd hand and are too lazy to check facts, or at those who make all assuming assumptions such as your first post in this thread, without stopping to realize there IS another side, whose arguments though you may disagree with, are quite valid.
i find it horrible that you insinuate i dont check my facts when you sit there parroting republican rhetoric and proving the exact point i stated in my first post: alot of military mena nad women, not all, are trained to be ignorant and blindly loyal

i find it horrible that you insinuate i dont check my facts when you sit there parroting republican rhetoric and proving the exact point i stated in my first post: alot of military mena nad women, not all, are trained to be ignorant and blindly loyal

The other post was at Basil, not at you, which is why it seemed off topic.
As for your assertion, my point is that we do not train the military to be either "blindly"loyal nor ignorant. Our men and women in uniform are more capable I would bet than the average citizen to think on their feet.
Lastly, I did not state you did not check your facts, my posts are merely that you generalize EVERYONE who disagrees with you as "ignorant and blindly loyal" which in itself is not a fact.

For certain no cavalryman ever would have any troubles, I have climbed most of the peaks in the US, and while yours in Europe may be higher, I seriously doubt it would be an order of magnitude.
Finally, our soldiers are not drafted like yours. Our professional soldiers are quite more experienced than the "other "nations you mentioned, as most serve much longer tours of duty.

Again an evidence odf your lies.
Hell, you even haven't climbed a 3 inch mols heap. Any climber will tell you that what you say about climbing most peaks in the US is not possible in a lifetime, there are so many, even in the smaller Alps, this is is not possible, yeah I climbed most 4000'ers and some on different routes but "most peaks" :confused: , hahaha, liar you are so busted, you never climbed before and since you're obviously busted here (like I will proove again further) you must lie about the rest to :eek: .

You know shit about the mountains in the US or in the world. Thinking that most mountains in Europe are higher (wich is not the case) and talking about hight instead of routes and degrees says enough about your so called climbing capacities. Even my younger friends at Yosemite (a group of 16/18 year old) that spend half a summer climbing here (first time abroad) and hired me (cause I am one of the only Guides ones at our bureau that speaks English) know better.

They all would say the same when they read your post: "this is a non climber".

So you're busted about your self given climbing capacities for:
1: Not knowing the mountains (your geographical error, no climber would do )
2: The classic unawerness of the mountain enviroment when non climbers like you speak about hight (wich was good in the 19th century) instead of routes and degrees (after WWII, most US and Alpine summits where climbed and everybody tried new routes as virgin summets became extremely rare).
3. Third lie, best US millitary climbers don't come from the cavalry but from the mountain brigades. (I saw them on training in Germany together in an exercise with the "Gebirgsjäger", 2 years ago near the Zugspitze, they stayed at Mittelwald in the kazern of the G.J., I was there for a ski mountaineering trip with English and Belgian clients)


Do I, need to go further? OK you lied and you're busted (evidence above) about the climbing. But perhaps you really are in the army, possible, but being busted about climbing is not the best thing to make your point, just admit you don't climb because, really, go to a climbing hallin your town or so, even there nobody would talk about climbing like you just did.

You talk about climbing like drunk people that never climbed before do in a bar. Just my two (pro,it is my job) cents.

When you wan't to learn (and pay us), come over:http://www.la-grave.com/english/meije.php

http://www.lagrave-lameije.com/us/summer.htm

The other post was at Basil, not at you, which is why it seemed off topic.
As for your assertion, my point is that we do not train the military to be either "blindly"loyal nor ignorant. Our men and women in uniform are more capable I would bet than the average citizen to think on their feet.
Lastly, I did not state you did not check your facts, my posts are merely that you generalize EVERYONE who disagrees with you as "ignorant and blindly loyal" which in itself is not a fact.
being able to think on ones feet does not equate to inherently being correct or be able to think more intelligently than anyone else. it just measns you can think quickly, that in and of itself decreases its correctness generally. this is not a think on your feet decision, this is an in depth analysis decision


and its not that i call everyone ignorant and blind, i call those people who are obviously ignorant and blind ignorant and blind. i have a agreed with people on these forums, maybe 2 actually, who actually seem to have doen the research and know wtf they are talking about in regards to the subject

Again an evidence odf your lies.
Hell, you even haven't climbed a 3 inch mols heap. Any climber will tell you that what you say about climbing most peaks in the US is not possible in a lifetime, there are so many, even in the smaller Alps, this is is not possible, yeah I climbed most 4000'ers and some on different routes but "most peaks" :confused: , hahaha, liar you are so busted, you never climbed before and since you're obviously busted here (like I will proove again further) you must lie about the rest to :eek: .

You know shit about the mountains in the US or in the world. Thinking that most mountains in Europe are higher (wich is not the case) and talking about hight instead of routes and degrees says enough about your so called climbing capacities. Even my younger friends at Yosemite (a group of 16/18 year old) that spend half a summer climbing here (first time abroad) and hired me (cause I am one of the only Guides ones at our bureau that speaks English) know better.

They all would say the same when they read your post: "this is a non climber".

So you're busted about your self given climbing capacities for:
1: Not knowing the mountains (your geographical error, no climber would do )
2: The classic unawerness of the mountain enviroment when non climbers like you speak about hight (wich was good in the 19th century) instead of routes and degrees (after WWII, most US and Alpine summits where climbed and everybody tried new routes as virgin summets became extremely rare).
3. Third lie, best US millitary climbers don't come from the cavalry but from the mountain brigades. (I saw them on training in Germany together in an exercise with the "Gebirgsjäger", 2 years ago near the Zugspitze, they stayed at Mittelwald in the kazern of the G.J., I was there for a ski mountaineering trip with English and Belgian clients)


Do I, need to go further? OK you lied and you're busted (evidence above) about the climbing. But perhaps you really are in the army, possible, but being busted about climbing is not the best thing to make your point, just admit you don't climb because, really, go to a climbing hallin your town or so, even there nobody would talk about climbing like you just did.

You talk about climbing like drunk people that never climbed before do in a bar. Just my two (pro,it is my job) cents.

Actually, in a different environment, I almost would like you;)
I never said cavalry was the best climbers..however, (perhaps I am biased) I do believe cavalry is in the best shape. As the saying goes.."If you ain't cav, you ain't $hit"
Also, I was trying to avoid going off topic too much, and yes, I probably have not climbed"most"peaks here, however, it has to fit far behind career and other interests as my fiancee has a word about what I do with spare time as well. And I have climbed my share, Pikes Peak in Colorado, Mt Whitney in California, and several other smaller ones..the two there are among the highest in the country however, at 14,000+ ft, and neither was even remotely a problem. I am NOT a mountain climber, it is merely something I consider to be a terrific way to unwind. Therefore, if I do not speak in "mountain climberese" or whatever, my apologies.

Hmmm...
I'm a religious person. I hold rightist beliefs. I hold my beliefs because they make the most sense to me. I have weighed the options open to me. I do not make such decisions on a whim. I do not make such decisions without good reason. Once I draw what I feel is the right conclusion, I stand firm in what I believe.

Now, Chess, can you tell me how I am ignorant? Can you tell me how I am a bigot? Oh, and can you please give me specific reasons why a person like me is "brainwashed" and "uninformed"?

I also have to say that I have thus far enjoyed this thread, mostly due to Iakeokeo. Keep up the good work!

On a side note: Did anyone know that a fetus can feel pain?

Mt Whitney in California.


That is a beautifull one in a super beautifull region, i saw a film made by a collegue that spend a summer there.Doyou live there? in the area? Lucky one!

Hmmm...
I'm a religious person. I hold rightist beliefs. I hold my beliefs because they make the most sense to me. I have weighed the options open to me. I do not make such decisions on a whim. I do not make such decisions without good reason. Once I draw what I feel is the right conclusion, I stand firm in what I believe.

Now, Chess, can you tell me how I am ignorant? Can you tell me how I am a bigot? Oh, and can you please give me specific reasons why a person like me is "brainwashed" and "uninformed"?

I also have to say that I have thus far enjoyed this thread, mostly due to Iakeokeo. Keep up the good work!

On a side note: Did anyone know that a fetus can feel pain?
wow, good job on your credibility and intelligence there, feeding trolls

wow, good job on your credibility and intelligence there, feeding trolls


Chess, I asked you a few questions. Would you much mind answering them... in an intelligent and thought out fashion? One-liners only work for clever people.

I suggest letting the market sort it out, with some additions:
*) All schools adopt a standard "real skills" curriculum (language/math/science),
*) all teachers be held accountable (summarily termination-able) for their individual student's performance,
*) all non-conforming students be tracked out to "lesser skilled" areas of study,
*) all graduating students be placed in an institution (school, preferably of their choice) through a masters degree course of study,
*) all students who fail to "keep up" are released into the "work world" unceremoniously.

It's obvious that you don't have the foggies idea what goes on in a public school classroom. Firing teachers because their students don't do homework is only going to add to the ongoing teacher shortage. It is also likely to discourage college students from majoring in education (which is the ONLY field of study that requires MORE "homework" after graduation and job placement than during the undergraduate career). A child's grade is contingent upon many factors, testing isn't all of it. And what about the students who simply don't test well? This course of action is only going to create more "kiting" of students (promoting students who did not fulfill requirements). If there aren't any teachers, education CANNOT improve. Period. No teacher can effectively educate primary and secondary school students if their classrooms are overcrowded. A single teacher cannot pay careful, individual attention to all 45 students in a given classroom. More teachers, more training for them, smaller classes... that's a formula that really works. If that means funding teacher preperation programs, then we should do that.

Second, compulsory secondary education won't help either. If a student does not want to learn or take classes, they simply won't achieve. Conversely, what about "technical training"? A Master's degree isn't always helpful in certain professions. Similarly a Bachelor's degree doesn't always give the real job skills required for a particular field. Try spending some time trying to work from within our current public school system before making outrageous assumptions about what will and won't help to improve our educational funding.

That is a beautifull one in a super beautifull region, i saw a film made by a collegue that spend a summer there.Doyou live there? in the area? Lucky one!

It is beautiful, yes. Unfortunately I don't live near there :(
I was at the NTC doing a training rotation sometime back, and after our release from there, I couldn't pass up the chance. It was my first real try, and I made alot of rookie mistakes from not knowing better, and should have taken along someone who knew the ropes, but I was young and foolish;)
And in the end, I was alive and smarter, so not bad overall :)

Hmmm...
I'm a religious person. I hold rightist beliefs. I hold my beliefs because they make the most sense to me. I have weighed the options open to me. I do not make such decisions on a whim. I do not make such decisions without good reason. Once I draw what I feel is the right conclusion, I stand firm in what I believe.

Now, Chess, can you tell me how I am ignorant? Can you tell me how I am a bigot? Oh, and can you please give me specific reasons why a person like me is "brainwashed" and "uninformed"?

I also have to say that I have thus far enjoyed this thread, mostly due to Iakeokeo. Keep up the good work!

On a side note: Did anyone know that a fetus can feel pain?


At what stage of development does this perception of pain start. I bet it isn't before viability.

Chess, I asked you a few questions. Would you much mind answering them... in an intelligent and thought out fashion? One-liners only work for clever people.
1) i dont recall you asking anything
2)that doesnt look that clever

On a side note: Did anyone know that a fetus can feel pain?

Sounds fishy... an organism without a completely developed central nervous system feeling pain. Seems to me I read a study in a Science Journal at my local University that refuted that assertion 3 years ago. Did you know a grown woman, pregnant or not, can feel pain (emotional, physical, AND psychological)? Perhaps you should head to the "Pro-lifers explain yourselves" thread instead. Here's the link... it's 38 pages long, so read up. I'll see you back here in a month or so (after you've caught up with the other topic). Oh, and do read the other responses before you post so you don't just keep posting things that other people have hashed and rehashed on that forum.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=362511

The former military are brainwashed into doing whatever htey are told and believing whatever they are told is right. period. They blindly accept whatever the president does and ignores his faults and trarget anyone who opposes him with ignorant disregard.

Welcome to the way every military has worked, works now, and will continue to work. At least the U.S. military can vote, unlike some others...

It is beautiful, yes. Unfortunately I don't live near there :(
I was at the NTC doing a training rotation sometime back, and after our release from there, I couldn't pass up the chance. It was my first real try, and I made alot of rookie mistakes from not knowing better, and should have taken along someone who knew the ropes, but I was young and foolish;)
And in the end, I was alive and smarter, so not bad overall :)

We are planning a Denali (Mc Kinley) climb with clients next summer. Normally we go often to the Caucassus but since 2003, we also had incidents (controls that only could be passed by paying, a death person near the road aso) on the way to the climbing region.

But once there, near Elbruz, people are safe and it is clean like everywhere under people that live in a mountain area.

Welcome to the way every military has worked, works now, and will continue to work. At least the U.S. military can vote, unlike some others...
which is supposed to make me feel better?

Sounds fishy... an organism without a completely developed central nervous system feeling pain. Seems to me I read a study in a Science Journal at my local University that refuted that assertion 3 years ago. Did you know a grown woman, pregnant or not, can feel pain (emotional, physical, AND psychological)? Perhaps you should head to the "Pro-lifers explain yourselves" thread instead. Here's the link... it's 38 pages long, so read up. I'll see you back here in a month or so (after you've caught up with the other topic). Oh, and do read the other responses before you post so you don't just keep posting things that other people have hashed and rehashed on that forum.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=362511


lol Hey, I'll read it. Although, if there's already 38 pages worth of debate, I doubt I'd have anything new to bring to the table that hadn't already been beaten to death.

Chess: I asked you just how I am part of the ignorant crowd. "Can you tell me how I am a bigot? Oh, and can you please give me specific reasons why a person like me is "brainwashed" and "uninformed"? "
I don't mean to seem confrontational or anything, but it really gets to me when people make claims and pass judgement on other people without even giving reasons why they are doing so. Your so-called "troll" adversary can match you point for point, and you just brush him off like he hasn't said anything.

lol Hey, I'll read it. Although, if there's already 38 pages worth of debate, I doubt I'd have anything new to bring to the table that hadn't already been beaten to death.

Chess: I asked you just how I am part of the ignorant crowd. "Can you tell me how I am a bigot? Oh, and can you please give me specific reasons why a person like me is "brainwashed" and "uninformed"? "
I don't mean to seem confrontational or anything, but it really gets to me when people make claims and pass judgement on other people without even giving reasons why they are doing so. Your so-called "troll" adversary can match you point for point, and you just brush him off like he hasn't said anything.
relaying only insutls and spam is NOT "mathing me point for point" he is a troll and NOTHING BUT a troll

i said the MILITARY is brainwashed

the majority of peopel for bush are ignorant and uninformed, that is easily proved in looknig at the guy with the idiotic list of reasons he is voting for bush, they all involve ludicrous inaccuracies and plain stupidity,

relaying only insutls and spam is NOT "mathing me point for point" he is a troll and NOTHING BUT a troll

i said the MILITARY is brainwashed

the majority of peopel for bush are ignorant and uninformed, that is easily proved in looknig at the guy with the idiotic list of reasons he is voting for bush, they all involve ludicrous inaccuracies and plain stupidity,

You really have to not get so worked up, slow down:) Regardless of anything I may have said, I KNOW you are smarter than this post looks.
The military is not brainwashed, you have obviously not served, and I would question whether you knew anyone who has. Those who take 4 or more years from their life, giving others such as yourself the right to express your opinions, and defending these rights, deserve a little more respect than you give with your posts.

oh, do shut up, kerry is the worse thing that oculd happen to this country, give me a break :mad: :mad: :mad:


usa :mp5: :sniper: kerry

oh, do shut up, kerry is the worse thing that oculd happen to this country, give me a break :mad: :mad: :mad: wth is this the puppet thread?

usa :mp5: :sniper: kerry
wth is this the puppet thread?

...the majority of peopel for bush are ignorant and uninformed, that is easily proved in looknig at the guy with the idiotic list of reasons he is voting for bush, they all involve ludicrous inaccuracies and plain stupidity,

I am quite certain that to him(and the majority of Americans in what is still a democracy) these reasons do not seem stupid at all, and I am confident that come November we will see that. On a side note, I must admit to being unsure what a troll is, so sue me.
And lastly, as I said before, regardless of whether or not I agree with you, it would make more sense if your arguments, which you say you have facts to back up, actually included those facts. Generalizing all of the opposition into one category is NOT backing up a viewpoint. From the tone of most of your posts, you pride yourself on your thoughtfulness, and while that may indeed be accurate, the way in which you generalize and make assumptions would tend to disagree.

[Chess Squares #128]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaukinen
lol Hey, I'll read it. Although, if there's already 38 pages worth of debate, I doubt I'd have anything new to bring to the table that hadn't already been beaten to death.

Chess: I asked you just how I am part of the ignorant crowd. "Can you tell me how I am a bigot? Oh, and can you please give me specific reasons why a person like me is "brainwashed" and "uninformed"? "
I don't mean to seem confrontational or anything, but it really gets to me when people make claims and pass judgement on other people without even giving reasons why they are doing so. Your so-called "troll" adversary can match you point for point, and you just brush him off like he hasn't said anything.

relaying only insutls and spam is NOT "mathing me point for point" he is a troll and NOTHING BUT a troll

i said the MILITARY is brainwashed

the majority of peopel for bush are ignorant and uninformed, that is easily proved in looknig at the guy with the idiotic list of reasons he is voting for bush, they all involve ludicrous inaccuracies and plain stupidity,

What are "insutls"..?

What's "mathing"..?

What's a "looknig"..?

Why did you end that sentence with a comma..?

Since when is the first person pronoun spelled "i"..?

Is your shift key stuck..? Oh,.. no it's not.. Why don't you use it like it's supposed to be used..?

Who is the ignorant among us..!?

:D

[Takrai #129]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Squares
relaying only insutls and spam is NOT "mathing me point for point" he is a troll and NOTHING BUT a troll

i said the MILITARY is brainwashed

the majority of peopel for bush are ignorant and uninformed, that is easily proved in looknig at the guy with the idiotic list of reasons he is voting for bush, they all involve ludicrous inaccuracies and plain stupidity,

You really have to not get so worked up, slow down Regardless of anything I may have said, I KNOW you are smarter than this post looks.
The military is not brainwashed, you have obviously not served, and I would question whether you knew anyone who has. Those who take 4 or more years from their life, giving others such as yourself the right to express your opinions, and defending these rights, deserve a little more respect than you give with your posts.


.."You really have to not get so worked up, slow down Regardless of anything I may have said, I KNOW you are smarter than this post looks."..

I'm afraid we'd have to disagree on this one..! :D

[Mr Basil Fawlty #105]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takrai
Your inflammatory remarks are typical, you talk of those who have seen war, I have, you have perhaps seen it in a Hollywood script, not real life. .

Most people that saw action don't speak like you, so you lie.
I saw a lot of kiddo's without arguments defending themselves with the adagio "Hey, I saw action" sorry to say, you're so typical.

Well, let me say that I eat soldiers for breakfast and as a mountainguide, I do train them and find most of them in very bad shape. Something I saw when some of my client-friends from Pitsburgh went climbing The Drus pillon at Cham: the ex marine under them was the weakest chain in the groop and had performed very badly on the moral plan after the (mixt) avalanche wich hurted one of us very bad.

US (and others nations ones to,but a little less since they are older and more experienced then the US rookies) soldiers perform very bad and panic quickly in a hostile, unnkown territory.

One of the reasons that I don't believe your BS history is the way you just speak at Chess Squares. My buddies (US to) never would be so ridiculous.

They saw action in 1991 and you kiddo are a shame for them... Why do extreme republicans allways wan't to bring lies like their army history on when they lack arguments in a debate?

We all know that you lie and never served. Perhaps you saw some war movies on FOX and are mixing up your wishes and reallity. Remember boy, Hollywood is a place for ya, real war not.

Heh he he he... Yet another poser without a grip on the language.

Keep those lips a flappin' there Basil,.. you hen-pecked petty tyrant..! You're showing yourself off for the moron you are. Continue soldier..!

Heh he he he he... :D

After reading the local letters to the editor again, i have just found out what people are most likely to support Bush: ignorant bigots and trained to be blind

More specifically: the hardcore religious: baptists and other protestant religions, and the former military

The former military are brainwashed into doing whatever htey are told and believing whatever they are told is right. period. They blindly accept whatever the president does and ignores his faults and trarget anyone who opposes him with ignorant disregard.

The highly religious apply their generaly ignorant biggotry to the far more intelligent Kerry and end up opposing him becuase he stands for moving the nation forward and not bending to the whims of the people who would control this nation and make it a theocracy like Bush. They support anything Bush does because he says "God is on our side" and he likes enforcing his religious views on people: not funding stem cel lresearch (which is irrelevant ot abortion), making aboriton illegal and outlawing homosexuality. Heaven forbid we disagree with the New Crusade and we support equal rights for people who are different than us and support the advancement of medical knowledge and technology.

If Bush wins, go to your local baptist church and say "thanks everyone, start praying for our troops and your future kids" then go to a veterans club and talk to bush supporters and thank them for supporting some one who sends people to war shemlessly and blindly instead of some one who opposes abuses of force and has seen war.

...okay. Go you.

[Chess Squares #108]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marines 911
It a living human that not fully complete. But, it is still a human which by killing the unborn child is murder.

I support Bush!!

english is your friend

Why isn't it yours, Chessy..!?

Oh,.. because you keep abusing it. Of course... :)

[Chess Squares #109]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takrai
As I said, I have nothing to prove. I however can virtually guarantee that if your statement is correct, you never have spoken to anyone who has seen action.While my tone may have been harsh, it is a growing thread in most of us who have returned from action and see the absolutely ridiculous attitudes of many(not the majority) back home.
And as for lies, your posts are full of them. Also your knowledge of US troops is sadly way off, which is the main reason I see to reply here. I am currently assigned as a Captain with the 4th Infantry Division HQ. Prior to that I served during Operation Iraqi Freedom with recconnaissance battalion 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division. I did not see action in 1991, and YOU are the shame to your "friends" with your remarks on these boards. My unit saw near constant action in and around Kirkuk most of the past year. And as for eating soldiers for breakfast, you have never had an appetite large enough for anything other than an appetizer I am sure. The marine in question probably was retired. For certain no cavalryman ever would have any troubles, I have climbed most of the peaks in the US, and while yours in Europe may be higher, I seriously doubt it would be an order of magnitude.
Finally, our soldiers are not drafted like yours. Our professional soldiers are quite more experienced than the "other "nations you mentioned, as most serve much longer tours of duty.

when you can post something that is relevant to anything i said, by all means go ahead. so far, you are nowhere near topic and i havnt the slightests what you are ranting your head off about

That's because you are a biggoted, ignorant moron.

Which is what people are trying to tell you in "nive" ways.

Buy a clue, chief.

I hope this hasn't already been brought up, but...

Frankly, only about 18 million people vote in the US. There are 200 million people here. Sure, there are minors and non-citizens, but still: AN 18 TO 200 RATIO? I have an explanation. Many people don't want to disagree about candidates, be attacked for their point of view. So, they just stay out of it and don't vote. There has been no compelling campaigning, so I'm gonna stay the hell out of it and not vote at all.



And also because I'm not 18 yet.

[Chess Squares #110]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takrai
You are running out of lines chess He graduated from Harvard, his Masters came from *I think*Yale. His grades were with distinction.
As for myself, I do not really care much what you think of me. I earned my way to where I am now on hard work and study. I came from a family of hard working steel industry types, and pursued and obtained my degree, and am an officer in the US Army, with not much left to prove, especially to the uninformed masses who take their news at 3rd hand and are too lazy to check facts, or at those who make all assuming assumptions such as your first post in this thread, without stopping to realize there IS another side, whose arguments though you may disagree with, are quite valid.

i find it horrible that you insinuate i dont check my facts when you sit there parroting republican rhetoric and proving the exact point i stated in my first post: alot of military mena nad women, not all, are trained to be ignorant and blindly loyal

Of course you find it horrible. Nobody LIKES to be shown to be an idiot.

And what's a "mena"..? While we're at it, what are "nad women" and how do I tell them apart from real women from across a smokey room..?!

THAT could be important.

I hope this hasn't already been brought up, but...

Frankly, only about 18 million people vote in the US. There are 200 million people here. Sure, there are minors and non-citizens, but still: AN 18 TO 200 RATIO? I have an explanation. Many people don't want to disagree about candidates, be attacked for their point of view. So, they just stay out of it and don't vote. There has been no compelling campaigning, so I'm gonna stay the hell out of it and not vote at all.



And also because I'm not 18 yet.

:) You are correct. Many people on the fringe are quick to condemn anyone not in 100% agreement with them. However, it is still in everyone(who can)'s
best interest to vote..how did the Chicago Democrats put it? vote early, vote often:)

[Riven Dell #119]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
I suggest letting the market sort it out, with some additions:
*) All schools adopt a standard "real skills" curriculum (language/math/science),
*) all teachers be held accountable (summarily termination-able) for their individual student's performance,
*) all non-conforming students be tracked out to "lesser skilled" areas of study,
*) all graduating students be placed in an institution (school, preferably of their choice) through a masters degree course of study,
*) all students who fail to "keep up" are released into the "work world" unceremoniously.

It's obvious that you don't have the foggies idea what goes on in a public school classroom. Firing teachers because their students don't do homework is only going to add to the ongoing teacher shortage. It is also likely to discourage college students from majoring in education (which is the ONLY field of study that requires MORE "homework" after graduation and job placement than during the undergraduate career). A child's grade is contingent upon many factors, testing isn't all of it. And what about the students who simply don't test well? This course of action is only going to create more "kiting" of students (promoting students who did not fulfill requirements). If there aren't any teachers, education CANNOT improve. Period. No teacher can effectively educate primary and secondary school students if their classrooms are overcrowded. A single teacher cannot pay careful, individual attention to all 45 students in a given classroom. More teachers, more training for them, smaller classes... that's a formula that really works. If that means funding teacher preperation programs, then we should do that.

Second, compulsory secondary education won't help either. If a student does not want to learn or take classes, they simply won't achieve. Conversely, what about "technical training"? A Master's degree isn't always helpful in certain professions. Similarly a Bachelor's degree doesn't always give the real job skills required for a particular field. Try spending some time trying to work from within our current public school system before making outrageous assumptions about what will and won't help to improve our educational funding.



Heh he he he... and you point is my point. Even draconian tactics to "force teachers to teach well" and "force students to do well" and "force institutions to accept the worthy" is not the full answer.

.."Try spending some time trying to work from within our current public school system before making outrageous assumptions about what will and won't help to improve our educational funding."..

And your statement here is PRECISELY what is wrong with American education. I'm not concerned with educational FUNDING... I'm concerned with educational effectiveness.

And I do have "the foggies idea" what I'm taking about.

You, on the other hand, haven't quite come to grips with using english.

Of course you find it horrible. Nobody LIKES to be shown to be an idiot.

And what's a "mena"..? While we're at it, what are "nad women" and how do I tell them apart from real women from across a smokey room..?!

THAT could be important.

When one is being critical of someone else's spelling, it is usually unwise to make the same mistake.

"smokey"

[Gymoor #143]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
Of course you find it horrible. Nobody LIKES to be shown to be an idiot.

And what's a "mena"..? While we're at it, what are "nad women" and how do I tell them apart from real women from across a smokey room..?!

THAT could be important.

When one is being critical of someone else's spelling, it is usually unwise to make the same mistake.

"smokey"

Touche..! :D

Well done..!

Heh he he he... and you point is my point.

I could also point to this as another example, but that would be piling on.
:D

What's "mathing"..?

What's a "looknig"..?

Why did you end that sentence with a comma..?

Since when is the first person pronoun spelled "i"..?

Is your shift key stuck..? Oh,.. no it's not.. Why don't you use it like it's supposed to be used..?

Who is the ignorant among us..!?

:D

Okay, if you're going to get persnickity:

Elipses (those little dots you're so fond of) consist of three periods in a row, not two. If you use them to end a sentence, you need three dots and THEN your end punctuation. One doesn't use a comma before elipses as elipses are considered a single piece of punctuation (generally used to denote an edited thought, quote, or sentence point). Oh, and e.e. cummings spelled first person pronoun "i" all the time. He also refrained from using any capitalization in his poetry, name, etc.... (Please note number of dots... there are four because three are elipses dots and ONE is the end period.) Furthermore, people tend to get snarky when they feel insulted, hence the degredation of the typing you are attacking.

Heh he he he... and you point is my point. Even draconian tactics to "force teachers to teach well" and "force students to do well" and "force institutions to accept the worthy" is not the full answer.

"and you point is my point"... hmmm, highly suspicious comment. Whose point? You point? I point? We all point? If you try to "force" achievement, you'll find the vast majority of the students slipping through the cracks. You didn't address overcrowding (one of the largest issues in our public schools) or understaffing. Maybe if each teacher had the time to focus on individual students, we'd be better off. Treat the illness, not the symptoms.

"Try spending some time trying to work from within our current public school system before making outrageous assumptions about what will and won't help to improve our educational funding.".

And your statement here is PRECISELY what is wrong with American education. I'm not concerned with educational FUNDING... I'm concerned with educational effectiveness.

Education cannot be effective if it isn't funded. In my state, schools are funded by the local property taxes. Schools near areas with extremely expensive housing developments ($900,000 homes) have the best teachers in the state, smaller classes, better technology, and far higher achievement rates. Schools in lower income areas have fewer skilled teachers, larger classes, the latest technology from 1987, and far lower achievement rates. What we have here is a funding problem, not a personnel problem. But then, you wouldn't know that because you don't know much about the educational system in the United States.

And I do have "the foggies idea" what I'm taking about.

You, on the other hand, haven't quite come to grips with using english.[/COLOR]

Actually, you don't have (pardon me) the foggiest idea what you're talking about. I suppose a simple typo means someone doesn't know English. That's funny considering your overuse of elipses in conjunction with your inability to use them correctly. Try again. I have a master's degree in English (despite multiple learning disabilities), and I am entitled to a few typographical errors here and there.

*phone rings*

[click]
Hello?

Pot?

Yeah.

This is kettle...

Hey, Kettle what's up?

YOU'RE BLACK!!
[click]

Okay. Now that we're done critiquing each other's spelling and grammar, can we get back to the topic of why Bush sucks so much?

Thank you. Now watch this drive.

You can't possibly catagorize the entire whole of Bush supporters as ignorant bigots. However, one who reads handpicked letters from a mailbag containing letters from ignorant Bush supporters is just another weak excuse to slam Bush. I could say the exact same thing about people who support Kerry. There are so many things similar about the two, it's disgusting. There will always be stupid bigots in the world, it doesn't mean an entire group is represented by them.

So :upyours: to you.

Okay. Now that we're done critiquing each other's spelling and grammar, can we get back to the topic of why Bush sucks so much?

Thank you. Now watch this drive.
That's another thing I always get pissed-off about. That footage was taken before 9/11 even happened. :mad: All was virtually well with the country, well enough for the president to play a game of golf without guilt, that is.

You can't possibly catagorize the entire whole of Bush supporters as ignorant bigots. However, one who reads handpicked letters from a mailbag containing letters from ignorant Bush supporters is just another weak excuse to slam Bush. I could say the exact same thing about people who support Kerry. There are so many things similar about the two, it's disgusting. There will always be stupid bigots in the world, it doesn't mean an entire group is represented by them.

So :upyours: to you.

I think it's a little sad that you can't manage to make your point without ending it with obscene gestures. Regarding the "handpicked letter" assertion, unless we know which publication is picking letters just to make Republican Bush supporters look bad, we don't really have any foundation for that accusation. *shrugs*

You can't possibly catagorize the entire whole of Bush supporters as ignorant bigots. However, one who reads handpicked letters from a mailbag containing letters from ignorant Bush supporters is just another weak excuse to slam Bush. I could say the exact same thing about people who support Kerry. There are so many things similar about the two, it's disgusting. There will always be stupid bigots in the world, it doesn't mean an entire group is represented by them.

So :upyours: to you.
had you some capability to read, you would realise i did not categorize all bush supporters, nor was i referring to all bush supporters. i said SPECIFICALLY "the people most likely to support bush are"

but good job proving me right

I have been sitting back a bit and watching the human drama that is this thread unfold. Troll this and troll that. My english is better then yours so hence your political point is bunk. Oh yeah I speel checked and you didn't thanks for proving your ignorance. Please. Would it be possible to elevate the level of debate? I propose that we argue based on the following two criteria:

1) FACT. Propaganda gets you no where. The media's MAIN goal is to sell stroies. If a story is dull they are not above dressing it up. The media is not out to make sure you are informed. They are out to get you impassioned and buying their version of the truth. Case in point Fox News and CNN.

2) Logic. You like Kerry therfore you are dumb! You like Bush ergo you eat paint chips for breakfast! Come on. This line of arguement should be left to first graders.

That being said I would like to hear an insightful critique of the following:
I believe abortion is wrong. My belief stems from the following chain of thought:
First, I believe in a society that is based on a fair rule of law. Meaning that certain rights are garunteed to all members of society. Along with these rights there are laws which stipulate cause and effect scenarios i.e. You rape, you go to jail.
Second, I work in an operating room of a hospital. Wherein Doctors use two main criteria to determine if a human being is alive (and as such still accorded the rights of a living human being). These two criteria are simply stated active brainwaves and a heartbeat. As long as these two are present it would be illegal for the Doctor violate any rights the patient has. For example organs may not be harvested.
Third, I am under the impression that a fetus is genetically human and genetically different from the mother. The ramifications of this are that a fetus is not just a bunch of cells in a human as say a tumor but a seperate entity.
Fourth, it is possible to detect brainwaves and a heartbeat at the third week after conception.
Now if you follow my logic in a fetus at three weeks you have a genetically individual human with the life signs used by science to verify the presence of human life. how is terminating this life any different from terminating a child that has just been born or that is three weeks old? I have heard it argued that a fetus can not survive on its own but neither can an adult with downsydrome or a two year old child. Yet to kill either of these is considered murder. The way I look at it is that for the sake of convenience our society has side stepped the rights of a group of people who do not have an effective outlet to protest. Because we do not want to be held accountable for the results of our actions we have neatly legalized murder and allowed it to form an industry and a lobby within our society.
This has happened before in our history. By allowing slavery we trespassed on the rights of others in the name of convenience. By putting on moral blinders in the name of commerce we alowed a instituition to flourish that trampled the rights of our fellow man. If a fetus is a living human being as all the signs point to then it is our obligation to look out for our fellow citizens regardless of size.
Rights of man must apply to all people and cannot be taken away just to benefit those with power.

With regards to Bush and Kerry can someone please enlighten me as to a plan that either canidate has put forward that will benefit this country? All I hear are promises and all I see when I go to the respective web sites is propaganda. However in this maelstorm of spin their seems to be a great vacuum of details. Kerry promises this that will accomplish that. Bush will do this to meet these ends. What I would like to see and analyze is how exactly both plan to pay for their plans with the current deficit and also how they propose in detail to effect any real improvement to our country.

One final idea. Wouldn't it be nice if canidates were sworn in at their respective conventions so that any promises that they make on the campaign trail would be legally binding. How different our election process would be!

Best of health to you all! I look forward to your responses. As for now this Dark Monkey a.k.a. Biggest Troll of Them All needs to get some sleep. All this late night banter and insult mongering takes its toll.

I've really got no questions when it comes to people supporting George Bush or John Kerry; some because they are naive, and some because they firmly believe that their canidate is the best choice for them, the United States, and the world.

I have but one question, however:

How did Chess Squares get into college?

then there are just the plain ignorant who just hate liberals because they have chosen themselves to turn a blind eye to the true actions of their own people and refuse to analyse and think outside the republican box.

I am neither republican nor democrat. I'm a libertarian hardcore-style and while I may not like Bush or agree with all his political aspects, I hate Kerry for being a "Hater and a Bigot" as someone once told me I was. I am sure of what Bush stands for and what he will work towards. Kerry, on the other hand, has had no consistent stance on any issue. Hence, I have no clue what his secret agendas are.

I would prefer someone who lowers taxes as opposed to raises them, as lower taxes make my paychecks look bigger ;)

BAH!

i'll pot the link again

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbut...rhimanyway.com/

read it..