NationStates Jolt Archive

Remember all that ridiculous crap about how Kerry cheated at the debate--he pulled something mysterious from his pocket--was it notes? was it a psycho-fraculator? (Turned out to be a pen.)

Well, Drudge, of all people, posted a film of the "cheating moment" and guess what? If you watch Bush at the same time, he's pulling notes from his pocket. Here's a link (http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/2004/10/winners-never-cheat.html) to a right-wing website that posted the video. Follow their advice--right-click on the movie while it's playing, go to zoom and then full screen, and watch Bush's hands. He clearly pulls out a piece of paper and spreads it on his lectern.

Here's a still photo from above.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/fwd/20041001/capt.fwd101b20041001jpg.jpg
Looks like notes on his lectern to me, but hey, I'm just a biased leftist after all.[/sarcasm]

All of which begs the question, what does it say about Bush if he cheated and still did as poorly as he did in the debate? Good Lord.

Homyfookinggod Kommie Cerry.

I'm pretty sure they were searched by the secret service before they came in.

Of course, they probably didn't do a full body cavity search. Who knows what the candidates might've hidden in there? :eek:

Maybe it wasn't against the rules. What are the rules? Are the candidates not even allowed to use notes? That's standard practice in debates - do these guys have to say everything off the cuff?

You know, its too bad you didn't watch Bush more closely. You obviously didn't notice that when he pulled what you called "notes" out of his pocket, if you slow the video down you can watch him depress the top of them like it was a pen. That said, I wasn't one of those people that accused Kerry of cheating, but you obviously are a "biased lefty" if you can't even be bothered with learning the truth before spontaneously spouting off nonsensicle remarks.

Anyways, I do believe Bush didn't have anything on his desk that Kerry didn't have, and I'm sure both had a list of the questions that would be asked for them to peruse during the debate. Try not being so damned reactionary. Don't act like a fool in your quest for revenge.

Well, they both cheated, looks like they forfeit the race. Ralph Nader is the next American president. /sarcasm

You know, its too bad you didn't watch Bush more closely. You obviously didn't notice that when he pulled what you called "notes" out of his pocket, if you slow the video down you can watch him depress the top of them like it was a pen. That said, I wasn't one of those people that accused Kerry of cheating, but you obviously are a "biased lefty" if you can't even be bothered with learning the truth before spontaneously spouting off nonsensicle remarks.

Anyways, I do believe Bush didn't have anything on his desk that Kerry didn't have, and I'm sure both had a list of the questions that would be asked for them to peruse during the debate. Try not being so damned reactionary. Don't act like a fool in your quest for revenge.
Dude, I think I've made it pretty clear in the other threads and in both my tone in this thread and in the poll just how ridiculous I think this whole debate is. Lighten the hell up. Jeez.

The rules are the ones that Bush insisted on to debate at all in order to control how much he'd look like a moron.

Tried to even make the networks not show reaction shots of the candidates when not speaking, and things like enlarging Bush's side of the picture so he wouldn't look so much shorter than Kerry.


The great irony here is that the 'liberal' corporate media accused *Kerry* of breaking the agreed-upon rule against taking notes to the podium, but their very own *evidence* shows it's Bush who did so, not Kerry.


Guess that just goes to show what they think they can get away with.

Sad fact is, even looking at said pictures, conservatives will continue to deny, and insist upon the opposite of, the truth.

only desperate republicans think that anyone cheated in that debate. they werent hard questions. the 2 men had practiced thoroughly beforehand. they didnt need to cheat. both did a fine job of stating their policies. kerry talks better than bush does. they need to learn to deal with that

Acctually I was told by a friend that there was this site that proved that Bush cheated with one of those little earpiece thing where somebody talks into it and he repeated it. Remember that guy who we all thought it was a miracle that he knew everybody's exact imformation? and he was really wearing that little earpiece with the package that goes on their back under a jacket? and his wife was telling him from the kitchen?....

too bad I cant find the site again....

anyways thats just what I heard....

I like how almost every issue Inc manages to come up with some bizarre, out of the way story that puts some weird spin on it that somehaw also agrees with his idea. No that I'm mocking or anything, its kinda cool.

Anyway, nobody cheated, this is a dumb subject, and Drudge is a dipshit.

ok look bush can't talk ok i get that kerry beat him in a talking contest. you know how easy that must be i know three year olds that would win but you can't say kerry is that great in fact (what happened to good speakers running for president) well anyways noone cheated.

OMG!!!11!1!!! Bush is such a cheater!!!!111!11!!!1!

Or not. All I see Bush doing is removing the cap from a pen and starting to write something, whereas Kerry takes something out of his pocket, which would be against the rules. And it's fine to have notes on the lectern, but they have to be placed the beforehand by debate staff, not carried on personally. So Bush wasn't really cheating.

Now, that doesn't mean that Kerry was cheating. I support Bush strongly and I think Kerry was breaking the rules, but there's a difference between breaking the rules and cheating. Think of it like the difference between talking during a test and asking for answers during a test.

OMFGZ!!11! People pulling notes and pens out? What is the art of debating coming to? What's next, scripted pre-written responses?

i say that as representatives of your respective parties, most of you are making yourselves look like ph0015 with your conspiracy theories and accusations of cheating. Although I actually support Bush, Kerry is most definitely the better debater and public speaker. (omg!11111 wtf a non-biased conservaiitive?!?!!111 Yeah. You heard me.) I still just can't bring myself to trust Kerry though.

OMG!!!11!1!!! Bush is such a cheater!!!!111!11!!!1!

Or not. All I see Bush doing is removing the cap from a pen and starting to write something, whereas Kerry takes something out of his pocket, which would be against the rules. And it's fine to have notes on the lectern, but they have to be placed the beforehand by debate staff, not carried on personally. So Bush wasn't really cheating.

Now, that doesn't mean that Kerry was cheating. I support Bush strongly and I think Kerry was breaking the rules, but there's a difference between breaking the rules and cheating. Think of it like the difference between talking during a test and asking for answers during a test.
Umm...Kerry took a pen out of his pocket. Sorry.

Umm...Kerry took a pen out of his pocket. Sorry.
That's what I said; except I didn't refer to it as a pen, because I hadn't read that update. Even if it had been notecards with talking points on them, I wouldn't have a problem with it besides the fact that it was carried on.

The bottom line is, Kerry broke the rules, but not in a way that he was affecting the outcome. I don't have anything wrong with what he did, but I think he should have had the pen placed there ahead of time. The purpose of my previous post was to defend Bush.

I like how almost every issue Inc manages to come up with some bizarre, out of the way story that puts some weird spin on it that somehaw also agrees with his idea. No that I'm mocking or anything, its kinda cool.

Anyway, nobody cheated, this is a dumb subject, and Drudge is a dipshit.Exactly--it's a dumb subject, which is why I treated it the way I did. Personally, I don't think either of them cheated--Kerry because he didn't have to and Bush because if he did and he did that badly, good God. The weird stories are easy to find--this is the internet after all--but I posted this one only to show how ridiculous the right-wing attacks on Kerry were and how easy it is to turn them on themselves. It's an object lesson, one might say.

Honestly, I think both of them cheated the American people by calling what they did a debate, but that's just me.