NationStates Jolt Archive

Any time someone criticizes George Bush, defensive Republicans accuse them of blind bias or of subscribing to conspiracy theories. Many republicans refuse to watch Fahrenheit 9/11, or watch it and dismiss it as propaganda. These same republicans are dismissing me right now as they find out I'm Canadian, fairly left wing, and usually apolitical. However, because of recent world events, some of which were detailed(propaganda or not) in Mr. Moore's damning docudrama concerning the tragic fiasco that has been Dubya Bushes dubious "presidency". I make this statement of sound mind and body, a reasonable man, and believer in justice and human rights above profit and luxury. Anyone who votes for George W. Bush in your upcoming election is either dangerously ignorant or fundamentally selfish and evil. There is no defending Mr. Bush, and I can hardly believe it's even a close race. There are obviously alot of rich people who will vote for Bush cuz their daddy votes for Bush, but Dubya couldn't win without the lower-income rural votes, so how does he get them? THere must be alot of ignorant or evil people in the United States of America. Where is the land of the free and the home of the brave? You have so much potential as a country and as a force for positive change, but 4 more wasted years of supporting the interests of the Bush Family and assorted cronies might cause the fall of a once mighty empire. Remember Rome. I am not a crackpot conspiracy theorist. I am a realist. So if someone can prove to me it would be better to have Dubya in charge again, now's your chance. Hopefully in a few months, this farce will be nothing but an ugly memory, but for now, I wish I had a vote to help oust this despicable, pathetic man. Peace, and Good Luck

Well, if your so determined and fixed in your opinion, there is no point in attempting to debate anything with you, so why did you post this?
You do realize that by posting this you are joining the legions of MKULTRA's, Letilias' and other partially insane forumers that generaly nobody believes? Wel, Letilias not that bad, provided he doesnt start on anarchy...

Any time someone criticizes George Bush, defensive Republicans accuse them of blind bias or of subscribing to conspiracy theories. Many republicans refuse to watch Fahrenheit 9/11, or watch it and dismiss it as propaganda. These same republicans are dismissing me right now as they find out I'm Canadian, fairly left wing, and usually apolitical. However, because of recent world events, some of which were detailed(propaganda or not) in Mr. Moore's damning docudrama concerning the tragic fiasco that has been Dubya Bushes dubious "presidency". I make this statement of sound mind and body, a reasonable man, and believer in justice and human rights above profit and luxury. Anyone who votes for George W. Bush in your upcoming election is either dangerously ignorant or fundamentally selfish and evil. There is no defending Mr. Bush, and I can hardly believe it's even a close race. There are obviously alot of rich people who will vote for Bush cuz their daddy votes for Bush, but Dubya couldn't win without the lower-income rural votes, so how does he get them? THere must be alot of ignorant or evil people in the United States of America. Where is the land of the free and the home of the brave? You have so much potential as a country and as a force for positive change, but 4 more wasted years of supporting the interests of the Bush Family and assorted cronies might cause the fall of a once mighty empire. Remember Rome. I am not a crackpot conspiracy theorist. I am a realist. So if someone can prove to me it would be better to have Dubya in charge again, now's your chance. Hopefully in a few months, this farce will be nothing but an ugly memory, but for now, I wish I had a vote to help oust this despicable, pathetic man. Peace, and Good Luck

I went to see F. 9/11, more out of curiosity than anything else. About halfway through the movie, I stood up and said to everyone there that the movie was selective editing, that it was little more than propaganda disguised as a "documentary," and that I refused to watch any more of it.

( insert scattered applause and a few boos )

Ten other people walked out with me.

The next day, I picketed the movie theatre with a sign which said: "Michael Moore Lies!"

I don't know what you're talking about. George Bush is perfectly fit to lead America in singing a hymn or praying.

I went to see F. 9/11, more out of curiosity than anything else. About halfway through the movie, I stood up and said to everyone there that the movie was selective editing, that it was little more than propaganda disguised as a "documentary," and that I refused to watch any more of it.

( insert scattered applause and a few boos )

Ten other people walked out with me.

The next day, I picketed the movie theatre with a sign which said: "Michael Moore Lies!"
walking out of movies = childish

I would like for everyone just to avoid this thread, it is obviously someone just looking for an argument, and will only degenerate into the same idiotic rhetoric we have heard a million times. Don't waste your time.

ya think? ;)

Trying to convince you that Bush is fit to lead America is an exorcise in futility. Not because Bush is or isn't fit to lead. But because of you.

First you challange someone to convince you of something you obviously could never believe.
Second, you accuse Bush supporters of being blinded and refusing to view and accept F9/11 even though you yourself leave the prospect of it being porpaganda open to debate.
You call Bush supporters dangerously ignorant or fundamentally selfish or evil.
You are an example of what is the worst about Canada. You are indeed blinded by political ideology and by your personal hatred of a man. You refuse to accept the fact that while Bush might be wrong (which is open to debate, and to me doubtful) he is doing what he believes is in the best interest of this country.

The only way to really convince you that Bush is indeed the better choice than Kerry, is to let Kerry have his 4 years and see where that gets us.

I personally don't want to take that risk.

Im not dead set in my opinion, and I know Mr Moore ignored a bunch of stuff and slanted things a certain way. It doesn't change the facts of the matter, or the situation America finds itself in now. I don't think most Americans understand how close they are to the edge. SO I ask again. Why would anyone vote for George Dubya? Are you two voting for him, and why? I want to hear the other side, and I'm pretty open-minded. So enlighten me, someone, please.

walking out of movies = childish

No, walking out of movies = better than wasting time watching something that's not worth seeing.

Trying to convince you that Bush is fit to lead America is an exorcise in futility. Not because Bush is or isn't fit to lead. But because of you.

First you challange someone to convince you of something you obviously could never believe.
Second, you accuse Bush supporters of being blinded and refusing to view and accept F9/11 even though you yourself leave the prospect of it being porpaganda open to debate.
You call Bush supporters dangerously ignorant or fundamentally selfish or evil.
You are an example of what is the worst about Canada. You are indeed blinded by political ideology and by your personal hatred of a man. You refuse to accept the fact that while Bush might be wrong (which is open to debate, and to me doubtful) he is doing what he believes is in the best interest of this country.

The only way to really convince you that Bush is indeed the better choice than Kerry, is to let Kerry have his 4 years and see where that gets us.

I personally don't want to take that risk.
Big f*cking risk, having a president not willing to go to war

No, walking out of movies = better than wasting time watching something that's not worth seeing.
walking out of movies because you don't want to waste time seeing something not worth seeing = smallminded

walking out of movies because you don't want to waste time seeing something not worth seeing = smallminded

walking out because you disagree is missing the whole point.

walking out because you disagree is missing the whole point.
indeed

if you can't vote who cares?

Walking out is his choice. Blindly believeing Moore is childish.

Paying money to watch that drivel is probably the stupidest thing anyone can do because it only encourages the man.

Walking out is his choice. Blindly believeing Moore is childish.

Paying money to watch that drivel is probably the stupidest thing anyone can do because it only encourages the man.
Propaganda movie = Best Film in Cannes :confused: How can that have happened? Maybe because it is true?

I KNEW all you rightwing folks would just ignore me and write me off as a commie Canadian. And really, I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for insight. Like why would so many people avoid watching F9/11? Afraid of being brainwashed? I know I know, not worth your time, and after all, time is money. :confused: :(

Bush is a Grade A+ Idiot

I KNEW all you rightwing folks would just ignore me and write me off as a commie Canadian. And really, I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for insight. Like why would so many people avoid watching F9/11? Afraid of being brainwashed? I know I know, not worth your time, and after all, time is money. :confused: :(
You have deluded yourself into believing you are an openminded reasonable person. Well ok, you might be reasonable, but you are hardly openminded.

You call us (the bush supporters) evil, and then say "come one guys, Im looking for insight."
You call us dangerously ignorant and then say we're afraid of being brainwashed.
I won't see F9/11 because it's propaganda. Even Moore admits it is. His 'creative' editing has been exposed many many times. I wont give money to the man, because he would be encouraged to make more movies.

if you can't vote who cares?

If you can vote, you should care. This is the future of America we're talking about here, and Canada by proxy. I wish I could vote, but I'm CAnadian,eh?

As much as I'd like to explain fully why I feel Bush is the much better choice in this upcoming election, I also recognize that my arguments will be either ignored, flamed, or refuted by disagreeing opinion. So, my only answer is that you should visit the websites of both candidates, read their platforms and views on issues currently facing the U.S.A. and the world, and then look at their voting records and other political experience. After you become as fully knowledgeable about each candidate as you can be from doing that, reflect on which candidate best agrees with your personal paradigm. If it's Bush, then you have your answer without asking other people to give you ideas. If it's Kerry, then it just proves that this thread was pointless.

Good luck.

You have deluded yourself into believing you are an openminded reasonable person. Well ok, you might be reasonable, but you are hardly openminded.

You call us (the bush supporters) evil, and then say "come one guys, Im looking for insight."
You call us dangerously ignorant and then say we're afraid of being brainwashed.
I won't see F9/11 because it's propaganda. Even Moore admits it is. His 'creative' editing has been exposed many many times. I wont give money to the man, because he would be encouraged to make more movies.

What if it were free? Michael Moore doesn't mind if you bootleg it, and it's out on DVD now anyway? And why do you assume that none of it is true because some of it is misleading?

As much as I'd like to explain fully why I feel Bush is the much better choice in this upcoming election, I also recognize that my arguments will be either ignored, flamed, or refuted by disagreeing opinion. So, my only answer is that you should visit the websites of both candidates, read their platforms and views on issues currently facing the U.S.A. and the world, and then look at their voting records and other political experience. After you become as fully knowledgeable about each candidate as you can be from doing that, reflect on which candidate best agrees with your personal paradigm. If it's Bush, then you have your answer without asking other people to give you ideas. If it's Kerry, then it just proves that this thread was pointless.

Good luck.

Thanks, youve been so helpful. I don't want full explanations, at this point I just want ONE REDEEMING QUALITY

Originally posted by Obonga:
I don't want full explanations, at this point I just want ONE REDEEMING QUALITY

I could say many things, such as how he is anti-abortion. Or how he is against homosexuals redefining marriage. It all comes down to how you view the issues.

But, to attempt to answer your question, he has always been very, very clear on every single one of his stances. He has always said what he believed. It's one of the qualities that both draws people to him and polarizes the electorate.

Kerry, on the other hand, has never been crystal clear on anything, besides that he is a Massachussetts Liberal and not Bush. He could stand there at one moment and say how Bush has failed to build important alliances, but the next minute jump to how Bush messed up when he built a 5-nation alliance to bring North Korea to the table to talk about nuclear weapons and that we should go it alone there.

I went to see F. 9/11, more out of curiosity than anything else. About halfway through the movie, I stood up and said to everyone there that the movie was selective editing, that it was little more than propaganda disguised as a "documentary," and that I refused to watch any more of it.
( insert scattered applause and a few boos )
Ten other people walked out with me.
The next day, I picketed the movie theatre with a sign which said: "Michael Moore Lies!"
Ohhhh....I bet you felt all warm and smug inside. Making a brave stand like that and annoying other cinema patrons who might not have shared the same opinions as you but had paid to go see a movie only to have a self-righteous idiot stand up in the middle of it and start spouting off. :rolleyes:
I bet you yelled out "Bruce Willis is dead you know!" during 'The sixth sense' and "He's really a man!" during 'The crying game'.
My, how those cold winter nights must fly past in your household.
Let me guess: those ten ppl were your immediate family and some others who had car-pooled with you.

Well, I don't post very often and I'll admit that I'm new to this site - but I think I'd like to say a few things and see how people respond.

I haven't met an unemotional, truly rational bush supporter in months. It is my opinion that people who are supporting bush don't live in the world today. But I have also tried many many many times to find some redeeming quality in him. For the longest time I searched for ways to believe that this war of his (the biggest undertaking of his presidency, and therefore what we all judge him by) was really to find terrorists and make America safer. It's not that I disagree with everything he's done, its that when I get out of college in a year I'm really worried about how much this president cares about me. When Eisenhower send troops to D-Day he almost couldn't do it because he knew that the cost of American life would be so high but, in that situation with an actual threat to America manifesting itself, he did. That's good rationale. If we follow rationale like that followed for the war in Iraq we should invade every country that has a weapon of mass destruction, and we should do it soon before they figure out our president has bad judgement.

We've been dealing with Isreal for forty years, add Bosnia, Korea, Afghanistan to the list. It seems to me that 200 billion in Iraq for a defferable war thab is primarily based on untruths just costs too much.

If a foreign policy based on the strength of the US military, and nothing else, continues for four more years I think we should all agree; we have a good chance of ending up like the Romans.

As for farenheit 911, Micheal Moore has a history of going over the top and editing to show the point that he wants. It doesn't usually make his points any less listening to. Bowling for Columbine was spectacular. If you didn't know that, go back with an open mind and watch it again, try not to get emotional - there were a couple times in that movie where even I was amazed at the lengths he went to, Moore flurts with ruining his credibility - but all the things shown in the film did happen. It's not propoganda just because it doesn't show the other side.

So, all you rabid bush supporters. I really do want to hear some good points about Bush. Convince me that this war is worth while. Tell me something I don't know I'll listen. I think the guy who started this thread feels the same way. Attacking the mindset of the person making the point doesn't convince them otherwise. Anywho I'm rambling

Well, I don't post very often and I'll admit that I'm new to this site - but I think I'd like to say a few things and see how people respond.

I haven't met an unemotional, truly rational bush supporter in months. It is my opinion that people who are supporting bush don't live in the world today. But I have also tried many many many times to find some redeeming quality in him. For the longest time I searched for ways to believe that this war of his (the biggest undertaking of his presidency, and therefore what we all judge him by) was really to find terrorists and make America safer. It's not that I disagree with everything he's done, its that when I get out of college in a year I'm really worried about how much this president cares about me. When Eisenhower send troops to D-Day he almost couldn't do it because he knew that the cost of American life would be so high but, in that situation with an actual threat to America manifesting itself, he did. That's good rationale. If we follow rationale like that followed for the war in Iraq we should invade every country that has a weapon of mass destruction, and we should do it soon before they figure out our president has bad judgement.

We've been dealing with Isreal for forty years, add Bosnia, Korea, Afghanistan to the list. It seems to me that 200 billion in Iraq for a defferable war thab is primarily based on untruths just costs too much.

If a foreign policy based on the strength of the US military, and nothing else, continues for four more years I think we should all agree; we have a good chance of ending up like the Romans.

As for farenheit 911, Micheal Moore has a history of going over the top and editing to show the point that he wants. It doesn't usually make his points any less listening to. Bowling for Columbine was spectacular. If you didn't know that, go back with an open mind and watch it again, try not to get emotional - there were a couple times in that movie where even I was amazed at the lengths he went to, Moore flurts with ruining his credibility - but all the things shown in the film did happen. It's not propoganda just because it doesn't show the other side.

So, all you rabid bush supporters. I really do want to hear some good points about Bush. Convince me that this war is worth while. Tell me something I don't know I'll listen. I think the guy who started this thread feels the same way. Attacking the mindset of the person making the point doesn't convince them otherwise. Anywho I'm rambling

It's frustrating, but I think we'll just get ignored when alll we want is another viewpoint. You're the first person who responded in any depth, and I still haven't heard one good reason to vote for him(and the fact that he's a bigot doesn't count)

I went to see F. 9/11, more out of curiosity than anything else. About halfway through the movie, I stood up and said to everyone there that the movie was selective editing, that it was little more than propaganda disguised as a "documentary," and that I refused to watch any more of it.

( insert scattered applause and a few boos )

Ten other people walked out with me.

The next day, I picketed the movie theatre with a sign which said: "Michael Moore Lies!"
welcome to Get-a_life land, population: you

I could say many things, such as how he is anti-abortion. Or how he is against homosexuals redefining marriage. It all comes down to how you view the issues.
asinine reasoning. the same people who support the government getting involved in the PERSONAL lives of people think its a sin against god for the government to regulate industry. they are idiots.

But, to attempt to answer your question, he has always been very, very clear on every single one of his stances. He has always said what he believed. It's one of the qualities that both draws people to him and polarizes the electorate.

there is a different between clear, and ignorantly stubborn.

Kerry, on the other hand, has never been crystal clear on anything, besides that he is a Massachussetts Liberal and not Bush. He could stand there at one moment and say how Bush has failed to build important alliances, but the next minute jump to how Bush messed up when he built a 5-nation alliance to bring North Korea to the table to talk about nuclear weapons and that we should go it alone there.
like i said, people are frigging STUPID, kerry supposedly isnt clear because people are too damn dumb to understand him

Vote for who you want to vote for, providing that you are properly registered. I don't care who you vote for nor would I try to "convince" you who to vote for. That realm is the sole area of our Canadian and European friends who tend to be very liberal.

Big f*cking risk, having a president not willing to go to war

umm EXACTLY.

But, to attempt to answer your question, he has always been very, very clear on every single one of his stances. He has always said what he believed. It's one of the qualities that both draws people to him and polarizes the electorate.
Not really. A survey posted here yesterday (by Icertonia I think) revealed that large numbers of Bush supporters do not know where the man stands on issues. However, it showed that the vast majority of Kerry supporters know where their candidate stands.

Bush doesn't seem that clear on his stances to me, largely because he rarely mentions them. His speeches are all about noble intentions of bringing freedom and democracy to the world, defending America - those are the same stances as every past and future US president - and about God. Not to mention the broken promises from the 2000 campaign.

The fact is, Bush flip-flops as much, maybe more, than Kerry. He's not flawless, and it's something that all politicians do.

[Obonga #1]
Any time someone criticizes George Bush, defensive Republicans accuse them of blind bias or of subscribing to conspiracy theories. Many republicans refuse to watch Fahrenheit 9/11, or watch it and dismiss it as propaganda. These same republicans are dismissing me right now as they find out I'm Canadian, fairly left wing, and usually apolitical. However, because of recent world events, some of which were detailed(propaganda or not) in Mr. Moore's damning docudrama concerning the tragic fiasco that has been Dubya Bushes dubious "presidency". I make this statement of sound mind and body, a reasonable man, and believer in justice and human rights above profit and luxury. Anyone who votes for George W. Bush in your upcoming election is either dangerously ignorant or fundamentally selfish and evil. There is no defending Mr. Bush, and I can hardly believe it's even a close race. There are obviously alot of rich people who will vote for Bush cuz their daddy votes for Bush, but Dubya couldn't win without the lower-income rural votes, so how does he get them? THere must be alot of ignorant or evil people in the United States of America. Where is the land of the free and the home of the brave? You have so much potential as a country and as a force for positive change, but 4 more wasted years of supporting the interests of the Bush Family and assorted cronies might cause the fall of a once mighty empire. Remember Rome. I am not a crackpot conspiracy theorist. I am a realist. So if someone can prove to me it would be better to have Dubya in charge again, now's your chance. Hopefully in a few months, this farce will be nothing but an ugly memory, but for now, I wish I had a vote to help oust this despicable, pathetic man. Peace, and Good Luck

Heh he he he he... You can probably vote,... there are LOTS of lefties that will help you..!

Go for it my friend,.. nothing is impossible..!

:D

So...let me get this thread straight.

"Give me one good reason to vote for Bush"
"NO!"

walking out of movies = childish

Most leftist posts = even more childish. I was trying to make a point.

Walking out is his choice. Blindly believeing Moore is childish.

Paying money to watch that drivel is probably the stupidest thing anyone can do because it only encourages the man.

I considered that, but wanted to be able to discuss the damned thing intelligently ... at least as intelligently it's POSSIBLE to discuss such utter nonsense! :(

Propaganda movie = Best Film in Cannes :confused: How can that have happened? Maybe because it is true?

ROFLMAO! Um ... how about because those who judge the films at Cannes ( and in Hollywood! ) are as liberal as the day is long? Hmm? :D

Most leftist posts = even more childish. I was trying to make a point.

You couldn't have made your point without disturbing the movie for everyone else?

Bush is a Grade A+ Idiot

What amazing insight! What incredible English language fluency! What a dolt! :D

Thanks, youve been so helpful. I don't want full explanations, at this point I just want ONE REDEEMING QUALITY

And if we gave you some? What then?

welcome to Get-a_life land, population: you

Oh, what amazing insight! What eloquence and pithiness! I am cut to the quick! Argggggh!

walking out of movies = childish
Actually, if you're not enjoying the movie, it makes good economic sense.

See, once you buy your ticket, that money is gone. You can't get it back. So, you go into the theater, and then suppose you don't like the movie. You can either continue wasting your time in order to justify the money you spent, or you can go do something more enjoyable with your time.

bush is a puppet. cheney and rumsfield run the country . a n a shucks type of a howdy doody . :mad: :sniper:

I haven't met an unemotional, truly rational bush supporter in months. It is my opinion that people who are supporting bush don't live in the world today.
Oddly enough, I haven't actually met a single Kerry supporter. Ever. Only Bush opponents.

Vote for who you want to vote for, providing that you are properly registered. I don't care who you vote for nor would I try to "convince" you who to vote for.

Then your post is useless.

Then your post is useless.

Not at all....

Oddly enough, I haven't actually met a single Kerry supporter. Ever. Only Bush opponents.
In real life or on internet. I'm a Kerry support so now you have on net :)