NationStates Jolt Archive

Where shall we begin?

In red, is the the Novus Ordo, in blue, is the Roman Catholic.

What is the Church?

The Church may be one way to salvation. The Church is the only way to salvation. extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Are others saved?
Roman Catechism:
Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the Church's pale: infidels, heretics and schismatics, and excommunicated persons. Infidels are outside the Church because they never belonged to, and never knew the Church, and were never made partakers of any of her Sacraments. Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church, because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they have deserted. It is not, however, to be denied that they are still subject to the jurisdiction of the Church, inasmuch as they may be called before her tribunals, punished and anathematised. Finally, excommunicated persons are not members of the Church, because they have been cut off by her sentence from the number of her children and belong not to her communion until they repent.

This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in the Catholic Church....
Ecumenism is important...
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/001_JPIIAnimist.jpg


What about the Mass?
Novus Ordo:

http://cathinsight.com/kids%20mass.jpg

Missa Tridentina:
http://www.bronx.latinmass.org/images/image79.gif

And those beautiful new churches?
Novus Ordo
http://www.realnews247.com/st_hugo_michigan_new_mass_altar_1.jpg
Traditional
stannsanctuary.jpg (http://www.anti-abomination.com/stannsanctuary.jpg)
[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] Do not use IMG tags on images this large. [/modedit]

And behold the new papacy!
Papal Dignity
http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/c/cb/PiusXIcrowned.jpg
Papal Mockery!
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/034_ComicPope1.jpg

Lest we forget the audio experience...
Some "Contemporary Christian" music (http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=733403&q=Hi)
The Ave Maria (http://www.sancta.org/media/avemaria.song)
Some Beautiful Renditions of the Kyriale and select other Gregorian Chant (http://198.62.75.1/www2/cantgreg/kyriale_eng.html)



There is more to come. Do not interrupt me in between and expect a response.

Statistical Decline in the Church Since "Vatican II"
#

Priests. After skyrocketing from about 27,000 in 1930 to 58,000 in 1965, the number of priests in the United States dropped to 45,000 in 2002. By 2020, there will be about 31,000 priests--and only 15,000 will be under the age of 70. Right now there are more priests aged 80 to 84 than there are aged 30 to 34.

#

Ordinations. In 1965 there were 1,575 ordinations to the priesthood, in 2002 there were 450, a decline of 350 percent. Taking into account ordinations, deaths and departures, in 1965 there was a net gain of 725 priests. In 1998, there was a net loss of 810.

#

Priestless parishes. About 1 percent of parishes, 549, were without a resident priest in 1965. In 2002 there were 2,928 priestless parishes, about 15 percent of U.S. parishes. By 2020, a quarter of all parishes, 4,656, will have no priest.

#

Seminarians. Between 1965 and 2002, the number of seminarians dropped from 49,000 to 4,700--a 90 percent decrease. Without any students, seminaries across the country have been sold or shuttered. There were 596 seminaries in 1965, and only 200 in 2002.

#

Sisters. 180,000 sisters were the backbone of the Catholic education and health systems in 1965. In 2002, there were 75,000 sisters, with an average age of 68. By 2020, the number of sisters will drop to 40,000--and of these, only 21,000 will be aged 70 or under. In 1965, 104,000 sisters were teaching, while in 2002 there were only 8,200 teachers.

#

Brothers. The number of professed brothers decreased from about 12,000 in 1965 to 5,700 in 2002, with a further drop to 3,100 projected for 2020.

#

Religious Orders. The religious orders will soon be virtually non-existent in the United States. For example, in 1965 there were 5,277 Jesuit priests and 3,559 seminarians; in 2000 there were 3,172 priests and 38 seminarians. There were 2,534 OFM Franciscan priests and 2,251 seminarians in 1965; in 2000 there were 1,492 priests and 60 seminarians. There were 2,434 Christian Brothers in 1965 and 912 seminarians; in 2000 there were 959 Brothers and 7 seminarians. There were 1,148 Redemptorist priests in 1965 and 1,128 seminarians; in 2000 there were 349 priests and 24 seminarians. Every major religious order in the United States mirrors these statistics.

#

High Schools. Between 1965 and 2002 the number of diocesan high schools fell from 1,566 to 786. At the same time the number of students dropped from almost 700,000 to 386,000.

#

Parochial Grade Schools. There were 10,503 parochial grade schools in 1965 and 6,623 in 2002. The number of students went from 4.5 million to 1.9 million.

#

Sacramental Life. In 1965 there were 1.3 million infant baptisms; in 2002 there were 1 million. (In the same period the number of Catholics in the United States rose from 45 million to 65 million.) In 1965 there were 126,000 adult baptisms-----converts-----in 2002 there were 80,000. In 1965 there were 352,000 Catholic marriages, in 2002 there were 256,000. In 1965 there were 338 annulments, in 2002 there were 50,000.

#

Mass attendance. A 1958 Gallup poll reported that 74 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1958. A 1994 University of Notre Dame study found that the attendance rate was 26.6 percent. A more recent study by Fordham University professor James Lothian concluded that 65 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1965, while the rate dropped to 25 percent in 2000.

Active Priests:
1965 - 58,000
2002 - 45,000

Ordinations:
1965 - 1,575
2002 - 450

Priestless Parishes:
1965 - 549 (about 1%)
2002 - 2,928 (about 15%)

Seminarians:
1965 - 49,000
2002 - 4,700

Sisters:
1965 - 180,000
2002 - 75,000

Brothers:
1965 - 12,000
2002 - 5,700

Jesuits:
1965 - 5,277
2002 - 3,172

Franciscans:
1965 - 2,534
2002 - 1,492

Christian Brothers:
1965 - 2,434
2002 - 959

Redemptorists:
1965 - 1,148
2002 - 349

Catholic High Schools:
1965 - 1,566
2002 - 786

Catholic High School Students:
1965 - 700,000
2002 - 386,000

Parochial Grade Schools:
1965 - 10,504
2002 - 6,623

Parochial Grade School Students:
1965 - 4.5 million
2002 - 1.9 million

Infant Baptisms:
1965 - 1.3 million
2002 - 1 million

Adult Baptisms (conversions):
1965 - 126,000
2002 - 80,000

Catholic Marriages:
1965 - 352,000
2002 - 256,000

Annulments:
1965 - 338
2002 - 50,000

Regular Mass Attendance - study #1:
1958 - 74% of Catholics (Gallup Pole)
1994 - 26.6% (Notre Dame study)

Regular Mass Attendance - Fordham University study:
1965 - 65% of Catholics
2000 - 25%

Misc. (source, National Catholic Reporter)
77% believe Catholics don't have to attend Mass on Sunday
65% believe Catholics can divorce and remarry
53% believe Catholics can have an abortion
10% accept the Church's teaching on birth control (source, Notre Dame poll)
70% believe the Eucharist is a "symbolic reminder" of Our Lord (New York Times poll)

I have more to show, but I would like your comments on what I have just displayed for you. Any replies?

The Traditional Rite:
Venerable, ancient, fruitful, Catholic; focused on God!

http://www.cathinsight.com/apologetics/elevation.jpg
THE TRADITIONAL MASS

2,000 years of venerable usage
Tried and true

Clearly a Sacrifice
an altar, a priest

Centred on God
Structured for reverence

Completely Catholic
One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic

Codified after Council of Trent
by a Pope Saint (Pope St. Pius V)

Fruitful!
Multitudes of saints, martyrs, religious, vocations

THE TRADITIONAL MASS!
Never abrogated by Holy Mother Church!

The Novus Ordo Rite:
Unprecedented, banal, fabricated, barren; focused on the people!
http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0312h.jpg
THE NEW MASS

Fabricated in 1969
Experimental

Clearly a meal
a table

Centered on man
Loose structure invites abuses

Half Protestant
Lacks all Four Marks

Contrived after Vatican II
for approval of six Protestant ministers

Barren!
Empty seminaries, decreased Mass attendance, massive defections

THE NEW MASS --
An Experiment That Failed

What is the difference in stances between these two sects of Catholicism on the idea that God loves everyone, which is clearly what the Bible says He said.

The Novus Ordo Rite:
Unprecedented, banal, fabricated, barren; focused on the people!
http://traditio.com/comment/com0312h.jpg
THE NEW MASS

Fabricated in 1969
Experimental

Clearly a meal
a table

Centered on man
Loose structure invites abuses

Half Protestant
Lacks all Four Marks

Contrived after Vatican II
for approval of six Protestant ministers

Barren!
Empty seminaries, decreased Mass attendance, massive defections

THE NEW MASS --
An Experiment That Failed

Ok TT, that is the most ridiculous picture you've linked yet! Is that you in the picture? It was probably staged. By the way, what country are you from? My guess is the UK or Australia.

Did you know you got voted most conservative on one of the threads? I figured you'd want to celebrate or something. What I'd really like to know is are you this hilarious in person?

More Novus Ordo:
com0209b.jpg (http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0209b.jpg)
[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] Do not use IMG tags on images this large. [/modedit]

Where are you from? What country?

Ok TT, that is the most ridiculous picture you've linked yet! Is that you in the picture? It was probably staged. By the way, what country are you from? My guess is the UK or Australia.
That is a real Novus Ordo service.
On a related note, this Novus Ordo "bishop" is planning his own day of fun and sun at the beach. (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10112957%5E13762,00.html)

More Novus Ordo:
com0209b.jpg (http://traditio.com/comment/com0209b.jpg)

Do you actually think most Vatican II Catholics are into this stuff?! Because they aren't. What country are you from TT?

[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] Do not blindly quote posts that use IMG tags on images this large. [/modedit]

http://www.olg-parish.org/IMAGES/Gallery%20pics/Mass1.jpg
FIESTA "MASS"!
Centered on man and culture, not God
...so, nothing new there

http://www.olg-parish.org/IMAGES/Gallery%20pics/Mass4.jpg

Tenet, I was going to read your thread but those big fecking picutes are giving me a head ache from vertigo because I have to keep sliding the text.
Could you please de-image the really big ones. I would appreciate it, make it easier for your readers.

http://www.olg-parish.org/IMAGES/Gallery%20pics/Mass1.jpg
FIESTA "MASS"!
Centered on man and culture, not God
...so, nothing new there

http://www.olg-parish.org/IMAGES/Gallery%20pics/Mass4.jpg

So what? They are Mexican. Tenete what country do you live in?

THE BIG CHEESE!
http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0209j.jpg

AND THE HINDOO "MASS" UNDER JOHN PAUL II HIMSELF!
http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0403j.jpg

HINDOOS INVADE CATHOLIC HOLY SITE OF FATIMA, NOVUS ORDO BISHOP VERY THRILLED!
http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm07.jpg
http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm09.jpg
http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm17.jpg

"All the invocations of the pagans are hateful
to God because all their gods are devils"
- Saint Francis Xavier, in a letter to Saint Ignatius of Loyola, referring to the Hindoos while in India

Half Protestant

You say* that as if it is a bad thing.

TT, why don't you just save yourself the bother of the cut and pasting and just post weblinks to the original pages?






* Well, cut and paste.

So what? They are Mexican. Tenete what country do you live in?
Presently in the cesspool of Jew York, in the Jewnited States.

You say* that as if it is a bad thing.

TT, why don't you just save yourself the bother of the cut and pasting and just post weblinks to the original pages?






* Well, cut and paste.
This is a compilation of things you could find if you tried looking. I am not claiming to be personally photographing every image I have posted.

This is a compilation of things you could find if you tried looking. I am not claiming to be personally photographing every image I have posted.

Avoiding the implied question there: is there something bad about Protestantism?

Avoiding the implied question there: is there something bad about Protestantism?
Yes, it is heretical and evil. It's "communion meal" is an abomination like the Novus Ordo.

What occurs at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
http://www.latinmass-ctm.org/radio/mysterium.jpg

Strange. All that Roman Catholic imagery looks strikingly similar to the services I attend, but, according to you, I am a follower of Novus Ordo. My church must be very adept at mimicking the traditional church.

Ok TT, that is the most ridiculous picture you've linked yet! Is that you in the picture? It was probably staged. By the way, what country are you from? My guess is the UK or Australia.
It's probably from the massive teen rally in Toronto they had a while back. I personally don't have a problem with it, as long as the people involved are being respectful of what is happening. Setting is not a liscence to be disrespectful - and the majority of the people there were seemed to be quite spiritually minded.

Yes, it is heretical and evil.

On what basis do you make this absolute judgement?

THE BIG CHEESE!
http://traditio.com/comment/com0209j.jpg

AND THE HINDOO "MASS" UNDER JOHN PAUL II HIMSELF!
http://traditio.com/comment/com0403j.jpg

HINDOOS INVADE CATHOLIC HOLY SITE OF FATIMA, NOVUS ORDO BISHOP VERY THRILLED!
http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm07.jpg
http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm09.jpg
http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm17.jpg

"All the invocations of the pagans are hateful
to God because all their gods are devils"
- Saint Francis Xavier, in a letter to Saint Ignatius of Loyola, referring to the Hindoos while in India
Many "Catholics" have been to Hindu temples as tourists etc. They weren't thrown out. I suggest you practice the same amount of restraint as the evil 'heathens'.

Other countries besides Europe and the Americas have Catholics in them as well. Is it so amazing that someone would say a Mass there?

I don't know the context of the cheese, so I can't pass judgement on it. Would you provide it, or are you just into the bashing part?

Presently in the cesspool of Jew York, in the Jewnited States.

Well obviously Tenete is not an American...we can rule that one out from several of his comments I've read.

The Catholic Altar
http://www.realnews247.com/tridentine_altar_2.jpg

http://www.realnews247.com/tridentine_mass_1.jpg

The Masonic Temple
http://www.realnews247.com/masonic_altar_1.jpg
http://www.realnews247.com/mountain_view_altar_close_up.jpg
http://www.novusordowatch.org/masonic.jpg
The Novus Ordo Table
http://www.realnews247.com/st_jude_table_radford_va.jpg
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/cm/lukas/altar.jpg

The Protestant Table (And this is High Anglican!)
http://www.realnews247.com/anglican_altar_lichfield.jpg
http://www.realnews247.com/anglican_table_colorado.jpg

It's probably from the massive teen rally in Toronto they had a while back. I personally don't have a problem with it, as long as the people involved are being respectful of what is happening. Setting is not a liscence to be disrespectful - and the majority of the people there were seemed to be quite spiritually minded.

I completely agree with that assessment. It's all in the attitude and reverence of the worshipper.

The Catholic Altar
http://www.realnews247.com/tridentine_altar_2.jpg

http://www.realnews247.com/tridentine_mass_1.jpg

The Masonic Temple
http://www.realnews247.com/masonic_altar_1.jpg
http://www.realnews247.com/mountain_view_altar_close_up.jpg
http://www.novusordowatch.org/masonic.jpg
The Novus Ordo Table
http://www.realnews247.com/st_jude_table_radford_va.jpg
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/cm/lukas/altar.jpg

The Protestant Table (And this is High Anglican!)
http://www.realnews247.com/anglican_altar_lichfield.jpg
http://www.realnews247.com/anglican_table_colorado.jpg

TT! Catholic are NOT in any way affiliated with the Masons!! Don't make those kinds of connections.

[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] Please don't blindly quote a post that contains this many IMG tags. [/modedit]

TT! Catholic are NOT in any way affiliated with the Masons!! Don't make those kinds of connections.
Note the barren similarities between the Novus Ordo, Anglican and Masonic temples when compared with the Roman Catholic altar.

Kiss my Papist ass, you Protesant bastards. The Ulster Unionists burst into my grandparent's house and blew my grandfather's brains out while he was trying to enjoy his meager supper of the single potato his Protesant overlords would allow him to have as a daily ration.

What Protestants are you referring to?

what is the purpose of posting those pictures, i think they are all a bunch of pictures and that they fail to support you argument against everything other than whatever it is that you believe

Note the barren similarities between the Novus Ordo, Anglican and Masonic temples when compared with the Roman Catholic altar.So, a physical object is one of your main concerns? I think you're looking in the wrong direction.

All of you: Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists. You have made our existince a living hell.

what is the purpose of posting those pictures, i think they are all a bunch of pictures and that they fail to support you argument against everything other than whatever it is that you believe
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
These clueless first-posters seem to be coming out of the woodwork.

All of you: Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists. You have made our existince a living hell.

Our? You speak of Catholics?

Well, I think most the people on here are Catholic so you're in good company Fistacia.

Seriously though, I'd love to know what country Tenete hails from because any country who has spawned a creature like him I've gotta know about. I mean wouldn't EVERYONE on this forum like to know?

Seriously though, I'd love to know what country Tenete hails from because any country who has spawned a creature like him I've gotta know about. I mean wouldn't EVERYONE on this forum like to know?
As I have already stated, the Jewnited States.

Presently in the cesspool of Jew York, in the Jewnited States.

That and "Hindoo"

HAhahahehehahahnahahahehahahahehahahahahahaheeheha HAHAHEEHAHEhahehehahehe ahHAEHAHEHAHEAHEHAEHAEHAHEHAEHAHEHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Some beautiful tuppernacles:
http://www.rha.ie/images/maynooth_rose.jpg
http://www.pfarrei-weisenau.de/images/web/tabernakel.jpg
http://66.46.231.130/canada/MarylakeShrine/Images/Gallery/images/church004.jpg
http://www.dk.oaza.org.pl/roboczy/pic201.jpg

Just a tip of the iceberg...

Kiss my Papist ass, you Protesant bastards. The Ulster Unionists burst into my grandparent's house and blew my grandfather's brains out while he was trying to enjoy his meager supper of the single potato his Protesant overlords would allow him to have as a daily ration.

You know what? Checking that you don't have a laughable story before trolling might be a good idea next time.

Are you planning to vote in your upcoming election then? Any candidate preferences? This of course is directed to the guy voted most conservative on this forum TT!

Are you planning to vote the your upcoming election then? Any candidate preferences?
What election? Elections do not occur in the Jewnited States.

What election? Elections do not occur in the Jewnited States.




TT, I have a friend who interested in talking to you but he isn't on NS and he asked me to ask you if you have msn. Also, then whats happening on Novemver 2nd, a tea party?

What election? Elections do not occur in the Jewnited States.

Is there any particular reason why I am unable to locate a country called the 'Jewnited States' in my atlas?

What election? Elections do not occur in the Jewnited States.

Could you explain what you mean by that? :confused:

Is there any particular reason why I am unable to locate a country called the 'Jewnited States' in my atlas?

hehehehehehe!!! LOL!

Could you explain what you mean by that? :confused:



He thinks Jews run the USA.

Obviously there's not a radical like him on the ballot, therefore there is no choice for him to vote for.

Could you explain what you mean by that? :confused:
Perhaps you are referring to the mock election between the Supreme Chairman Jorge Bush and John Kohn.

Is there any particular reason why I am unable to locate a country called the 'Jewnited States' in my atlas?

You obviously don't have the Adolf Hitler World Atlas.

Perhaps you are referring to the mock election between the Supreme Chairman Jorge Bush and John Kohn.

Yes, that is your country's election which I'm referring to....

I must ask at this point to keep on the focus of this thread- the visual (as well as audio) differences between the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the abominable Novus Ordo. Has anyone yet to defend Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae? What about the catastrophic results on the Church, of which I posted the actual statistics?

Also, nobody should be posting here without first actually viewing all of the pages, or you will miss the point of this thread.

You obviously don't have the Adolf Hitler World Atlas.

You guys are really making me bust up laughing! :D LOL!

I must ask at this point to keep on the focus of this thread- the visual (as well as audio) differences between the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the abominable Novus Ordo. Has anyone yet to defend Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae? What about the catastrophic results on the Church, of which I posted the actual statistics?

Also, nobody should be posting here without first actually viewing all of the pages, or you will miss the point of this thread.



Did you hear me, my friend wants to talk to you about some of the stuff you've posted. He's very interested.

The Biker's "Mess":
http://traditio.com/comment/com0309i.jpghttp://traditio.com/comment/com0309j.jpg

Did you hear me, my friend wants to talk to you about some of the stuff you've posted. He's very interested.
Then I believe he can speak for himself, no?

I must ask at this point to keep on the focus of this thread- the visual (as well as audio) differences between the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the abominable Novus Ordo. Has anyone yet to defend Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae? What about the catastrophic results on the Church, of which I posted the actual statistics?

Also, nobody should be posting here without first actually viewing all of the pages, or you will miss the point of this thread.

I myself as a rule have always avoided the New Age-y, Protestant-like Catholic Churches. I've heard horror stories about them but I've never had to go to one thank goodness. As for Vatican II, I have a Catechism book and I can't think of anything particularly "heretical" in it. I do like going to a traditional Latin Mass though.

I myself as a rule have always avoided the New Age-y, Protestant-like Catholic Churches. I've heard horror stories about them but I've never had to go to one thank goodness. As for Vatican II, I have a Catechism book and I can't think of anything particularly "heretical" in it. I do like going to a traditional Latin Mass though.
Nice dancing around the question. :rolleyes:

What about the disastrous results it had on the Church as a whole?

I must ask at this point to keep on the focus of this thread- the visual (as well as audio) differences between the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the abominable Novus Ordo. Has anyone yet to defend Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae? What about the catastrophic results on the Church, of which I posted the actual statistics?

Also, nobody should be posting here without first actually viewing all of the pages, or you will miss the point of this thread.Personally, I don't think that the message of God is limited to one single language. If you do, then your God seems quite a bit smaller than mine. The massive influx of priests after WW1-2 was an effect of the wars on the returning soldiers - the horrors that they had seen (and perhaps committed) needed explanation and forgiveness. I imagine that your statistics would jump during or after the other wars the US has gotten into in a similar way, although obviously not in such a big way.

Personally, I don't think that the message of God is limited to one single language. If you do, then your God seems quite a bit smaller than mine. The massive influx of priests after WW1-2 was an effect of the wars on the returning soldiers - the horrors that they had seen (and perhaps committed) needed explanation and forgiveness. I imagine that your statistics would jump during or after the other wars the US has gotten into in a similar way, although obviously not in such a big way.
The priesthood was steadily growing worldwide right up until Vatican II.

Bloody Mary should have finished the job. I can't believe you scumbags have the audacity to laugh off the story of my grandfather's horrible death.

Then I believe he can speak for himself, no?


He isn't on NS.

Nice dancing around the question. :rolleyes:

What about the disastrous results it had on the Church as a whole?

Well, from what I've experienced those non traditional types of priests and Catholic Churches are because of rogue priests and bishops which the Pope doesn't approve of but because of the humongous infrastrature of the Church and the shortage of priests little is done and some of those images you dislpayed could easily be of Paulist "Catholics" there is no proof otherwise.

Bloody Mary should have finished the job. I can't believe you scumbags have the audacity to laugh off the story of my grandfather's horrible death.

Shut up, alright? Your comment added nothing to the conversation, it was just a blanket attack at all Protestants. Believe it or not, there are millions of Protestants that had nothing to do with the death of your grandfather. And further to the point, most of the people in this thread are Catholic. So your statement had even less relevance. Simple fact is that your statement did not deserve a response at all. Consider yourself lucky no one reported you for your cute little comment "Kiss my Papist ass, you Protestant bastards" and go on about hating all Protestants for no good reason quietly in your room. Don't continue to disturb the adults.

The priesthood was steadily growing worldwide right up until Vatican II.

If your assumptions are valid, then do you have statistics that show a jump in the priesthood for whatever sect of Catholicism you claim is the true Church?

http://www.sspx.ca/Communicantes/Oct2002/images/Padre-Pio-during-mass.jpg~Padre Pio, stigmatic monk who never performed a Novus Ordo Missae... Not even the less radical Missal of 1965!

"Confession is the soul's bath. You must go at least once a week. I do not want souls to stay away from confession more than a week. Even a clean and unoccupied room gathers dust; return after a week and you will see that it needs dusting again!"

"It is quite true, we are not worthy of such a gift. However, to approach the Blessed Sacrament in a state of mortal sin is one thing, and to be unworthy, quite another. All of us are unworthy, but it is He who invites us. It is He who desires it. Let us humble ourselves and receive Him with a heart contrite and full of love."



"That is true enough. But every experienced merchant in this world not only keeps track throughout the day of whether he has lost or gained on each sale. In the evening, he does the bookkeeping for the day to determine what he should do on the morrow. It follows that it is indispensable to make a rigorous examination of conscience, brief but lucid, every night."

"The harm that comes to souls from the lack of reading holy books makes me shudder... What power spiritual reading has to lead to a change of course, and to make even worldly people enter into the way of perfection!"

The whispering of the faithful would be authoritatively cut off by the Father, who would openly glare at anyone who failed to maintain a prayerful posture... If someone remained standing, even if it was because there were no places left in the pews, he would peremptorily invite him to kneel in order to participate worthily in the holy sacrifice of the Mass.

Padre Pio, seated in his open confessional, all year round would ascertain that the women and girls who confessed to him were wearing skirts not too short. He would even cause tears to be shed when someone who had been waiting in line for hours would be turned away because of an offending hemline... Then some kind souls would step forward and offer help. In a corner, they would unsew the hem, or else lend the penitent a coat. Finally, sometimes the Father would allow the humiliated penitent to go to confession.

"Women who satisfy their vanity in their dress can never put on the life of Jesus Christ; moreover they even lose the ornaments of their soul as soon as this idol enters into their heart."

http://www.sspx.ca/Communicantes/Oct2002/images/Padre-Pio-at-consecration.jpgHe was a model of respect and submission towards his religious and ecclesiastical superiors, especially during the time when he was persecuted. Nonetheless, he could not remain silent over a deviation that was baneful to the Church. Even before the end of the Council, in February 1965, someone announced to him that soon he would have to celebrate the Mass according to a new rite, ad experimentum, in the vernacular, which had been devised by a conciliar liturgical commission in order to respond to the aspirations of modern man. Immediately, even before seeing the text, he wrote to Paul VI to ask him to be dispensed from the liturgical experiment, and to be able to continue to celebrate the Mass of Saint Pius V. When Cardinal Bacci came to see him in order to bring the authorization, Padre Pio let a complaint escape in the presence of the Pope's messenger: "For pity sake, end the Council quickly."

The same year, during the conciliar euphoria that was promising a new springtime to the Church, he confided to one of his spiritual sons: "In this time of darkness, let us pray. Let us do penance for the elect"; and especially for the one who has to be their shepherd here below: All his life, he immolated himself for the reigning pope, whose photograph was among the rare images that decorated his cell.

Padre Pio was even less obliging towards the prevailing social and political order, or rather, disorder (in 1966): "the confusion of ideas and the reign of thieves." He prophesied that the Communists would come to power, "by surprise, without firing a shot... It will happen overnight."

In 1966, the Father General [of the Franciscans] came to Rome prior to the special Chapter on the Constitutions in order to ask Padre Pio for his prayers and benedictions. He met Padre Pio in the cloister. "Padre, I came to recommend to your prayers the special chapter for the new Constitutions..." He had scarcely gotten the words "special Chapter"..."new Constitutions" out of his mouth when Padre Pio made a violent gesture and cried out: "That is all nothing but destructive nonsense." "But Padre, after all, there is the younger generation to take into account...the youth evolve after their own fashion... there are new demands..." "The only thing missing is mind and heart, that's all, understanding and love." Then he proceeded to his cell, did a half-turn, and pointed his finger, saying: "We must not denature ourselves, we must not denature ourselves! At the Lord's judgment, Saint Francis will not recognize us as his sons!"

A year later, the same scene was repeated for the aggiornamento of the Capuchins:

One day, some confreres were discussing with the Father Definiteur General [The counselor or adviser to the general or provincial of a religious order -Ed.] the problems in the Order, when Padre Pio, taking a shocked attitude, cried out, with a distant look in his eye: "What in the world are you up to in Rome? What are you scheming? You even want to change the Rule of Saint Francis!" The Definiteur replied: "Padre, changes are being proposed because the youth don't want to have anything to do with the tonsure, the habit, bare feet...."

"Chase them out! Chase them out! What can you be saying? Is it they who are doing Saint Francis a favor by taking the habit and following his way of life, or rather, isn't it Saint Francis who is offering them a great gift?"

Shut up, alright? Your comment added nothing to the conversation, it was just a blanket attack at all Protestants. Believe it or not, there are millions of Protestants that had nothing to do with the death of your grandfather. And further to the point, most of the people in this thread are Catholic. So your statement had even less relevance. Simple fact is that your statement did not deserve a response at all. Consider yourself lucky no one reported you for your cute little comment "Kiss my Papist ass, you Protestant bastards" and go on about hating all Protestants for no good reason quietly in your room. Don't continue to disturb the adults.



That little *shakes in anger*
said that ("Kiss my Papist ass, you Protestant bastards")? If he did, he should be reported.

Shut up, alright? Your comment added nothing to the conversation, it was just a blanket attack at all Protestants. Believe it or not, there are millions of Protestants that had nothing to do with the death of your grandfather. And further to the point, most of the people in this thread are Catholic. So your statement had even less relevance. Simple fact is that your statement did not deserve a response at all. Consider yourself lucky no one reported you for your cute little comment "Kiss my Papist ass, you Protestant bastards" and go on about hating all Protestants for no good reason quietly in your room. Don't continue to disturb the adults.

Maybe Fistacia should go to the Ask a Mormon forum some of their comments were quite anti-Catholic. She could definitely unleash her rage on them. (of course, this is being said with mild sarcasm) :p

I shall cease at this point. I will continue much more tomorrow.
And I still await a defense of the Novus Ordo Missae.

I bet TT has 10 or 12 other siblings. :p Or maybe TT has 10 or 12 children...

I shall cease at this point. I will continue much more tomorrow.
And I still await a defense of the Novus Ordo Missae.

I gave you an answer up there but you didn't respond.

I gave you an answer up there but you didn't respond.



He's ticked off that you asked him a question that he can't answer. As for children, I wouldn't bet against at least 5.

He's ticked off that you asked him a question that he can't answer. As for children, I wouldn't bet against at least 5.

That's what I was figuring as also...this is kind of entertaining we have 2 raging Catholics now...Fistacia and TT

That's what I was figuring as also...this is kind of entertaining we have 2 raging Catholics now...Fistacia and TTWell, Fistacia is apparently not practicing, and TT is clearly not Catholic. The SSPX website is a page from a heretical sect passing themselves off as Catholics. Apparently they have many members that do not even realize they aren't in a real Catholic Church...

Kiss my Papist ass, you Protesant bastards. The Ulster Unionists burst into my grandparent's house and blew my grandfather's brains out while he was trying to enjoy his meager supper of the single potato his Protesant overlords would allow him to have as a daily ration.

And my great-great-grandfather was robbed and murdered in Poland, presumably by Polish Catholics, and likely in part for being a Jew. Does that mean I should hold YOU responsible? :rolleyes:

And my great-great-grandfather was robbed and murdered in Poland, presumably by Polish Catholics, and likely in part for being a Jew. Does that mean I should hold YOU responsible? :rolleyes:

Well, obviously not, because he's an Irish Catholic, and your great-great-grandfather was killed by Polish Catholics. You see the difference, right?

I must ask at this point to keep on the focus of this thread- the visual (as well as audio) differences between the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the abominable Novus Ordo. Has anyone yet to defend Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae?

What's to defend? I don't see anything wrong with Catholics deciding to change their architecture or their priests' clothes.

What about the catastrophic results on the Church, of which I posted the actual statistics?

Perhaps that has more to do with internal Catholic disatisfaction with a stagnant and unflexible Church, and less to do with "catatrophic" reforms made by Vatican II?

I thought everyone would like to vote for Tenete on this thread :p

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362322

Here is a quote from the thread:

StarShadow "Yeah compared to TT I look like a moderate Independant actually I look Left wing, in comparrison."

La Terra di Liberta "TT...thinks the earth is the centre of the universe because the Catholic Church did 4 hundred years ago."

Well, obviously not, because he's an Irish Catholic, and your great-great-grandfather was killed by Polish Catholics. You see the difference, right?

Right- which is why he can blame all Protestants for what some dickwipes in Ulster did.

Thanks for clarifying.

TT, just wondering, have you ever read any Dostoyevsky? Being Russian, he was more Eastern Orthodox than Roman Catholic, but I believe he raised quite a few good questions about Christianity. In fact, in his novel The Brothers Karamazov, one of the characters (a priest) says at one point that people become priests because they are the worst of humanity. I won't give the entire point here because it would take too long to quote.

I'm not Catholic in any sense because I have a problem believing that tradition is all that matters in Christianity. Most of this belief is based on Biblical evidence, such as the facts that Jesus rarely went to the synagogues to pray, He taught a message of love, and the First Communion wasn't before an altar at all, but around a simple table. I am not, however, denying the place of tradition in Christianity because of the tradition that I have grown up with. But the idea that all communication and praise with or of God be in perfect Latin seems pretty absurd considering that Jesus didn't speak only Latin. His entire early childhood revolved around speaking Egyptian. His followers the Apostles, who were all very much Jewish, were far from educated men, so if they had been required to speak Latin to Jesus, how could they possibly ever have decided to follow him in the first place?

In the beginning of the book of Acts, some of the Apostles stand up to preach, and suddenly everyone in the crowd heard the Apostles' words in the language of their homeland, not necessarily in Latin, not necessarily in Aramaic, not necessarily in Hebrew.

Jesus never discriminated between who could speak to Him and who couldn't, so the idea that only a priest can ask the Lord to forgive my sins seems fairly ludicrous. If I need forgiveness, the Lord will give me that forgiveness if I ask and if I repent, not if I pay the priest to pray for me.

In conclusion, TT, how can you try to preach a paradigm and lifestyle of Love and Forgiveness if most of your posts are filled with Hate?

I'm not Catholic in any sense because I have a problem believing that tradition is all that matters in Christianity. Most of this belief is based on Biblical evidence, such as the facts that Jesus rarely went to the synagogues to pray, He taught a message of love, and the First Communion wasn't before an altar at all, but around a simple table. I am not, however, denying the place of tradition in Christianity because of the tradition that I have grown up with. But the idea that all communication and praise with or of God be in perfect Latin seems pretty absurd considering that Jesus didn't speak only Latin. His entire early childhood revolved around speaking Egyptian. His followers the Apostles, who were all very much Jewish, were far from educated men, so if they had been required to speak Latin to Jesus, how could they possibly ever have decided to follow him in the first place?Indeed. That is part of what Vatican II changed for the better.

In the beginning of the book of Acts, some of the Apostles stand up to preach, and suddenly everyone in the crowd heard the Apostles' words in the language of their homeland, not necessarily in Latin, not necessarily in Aramaic, not necessarily in Hebrew.

Jesus never discriminated between who could speak to Him and who couldn't, so the idea that only a priest can ask the Lord to forgive my sins seems fairly ludicrous. If I need forgiveness, the Lord will give me that forgiveness if I ask and if I repent, not if I pay the priest to pray for me.

In conclusion, TT, how can you try to preach a paradigm and lifestyle of Love and Forgiveness if most of your posts are filled with Hate?The use of a priest in confession is because many sins affect other people negatively, therefore, you must formally apologize to the community as well as God. That does not exclude the fact that God will forgive you if you pray to him and really do mean it.

Right- which is why he can blame all Protestants for what some dickwipes in Ulster did.

Thanks for clarifying.

Exactly. Now you see. The rules are different for him.

Originally posted by Shotagon :
The use of a priest in confession is because many sins affect other people negatively, therefore, you must formally apologize to the community as well as God. That does not exclude the fact that God will forgive you if you pray to him and really do mean it.

I'm not really getting this either. Don't priests take a vow not to reveal what happens in confession? If you don't really mean that you want forgiveness, why would be praying for it?

I'm not really getting this either. Don't priests take a vow not to reveal what happens in confession? If you don't really mean that you want forgiveness, why would be praying for it?Yes, they do take a vow. What I meant was, you can't just spew a prayer and that's it. You must want to be forgiven, really want it. The strength of the want is what I was trying to get across. That goes for normal confession with a priest as well.

And my great-great-grandfather was robbed and murdered in Poland, presumably by Polish Catholics, and likely in part for being a Jew. Does that mean I should hold YOU responsible?

Of course you should. If I am on a football team and one member makes a mistake costing us the game, the whole team must suffer because of his mistake. I take responsibility for your grandfather's death and I am sorry. Now maybe you Protesants can apologize so we can begin to heal the wounds.

TT, it seems that not only are you a bigot, but you're also a racist, GLOBALLY< THERE ARE MORE PRIESTS THEN AT ANY OTHER TIME IN HISTORY. GO ahead, look it up, I don't have the statistics here, but I don't doubt your resources. In Africa, the Phillipines, India and China, priesthoods are skyrocketing. And it is not just Catholicism that is suffering in the first world, but every organised, mainstream religion is suffering a dopwnturn. So despite your hatred of the so-called, "Jewnited States", it seems that you don't include Catholics outside of that apart of your statistics. You're only telling half the story. I wanted to send you a personal telegram about this, but couldn't findd your actual page. Anyway, wake up man, Catholicism means "universal", not just the USA (or as you say, "Jewmerica").

Now maybe you Protesants can apologize so we can begin to heal the wounds.

QahJoh is Jewish, and thus hardly fits into the category of "you Protestants".

Moving on to your story:

The Ulster Unionists burst into my grandparent's house and blew my grandfather's brains out while he was trying to enjoy his meager supper of the single potato his Protesant overlords would allow him to have as a daily ration.

Well, we can guess that this happened in the twentieth century, due to the Ulster Unionsits being involved and it being your supposed grandfather, so answer me this, at what point in the twentieth century did the "Protestant overlords" introduce a daily ration of a single potato? Or perhaps you are talking nonsense? at what point, other than during WWII was food rationing in operation in Northern Ireland?

Originally posted by Shotagon:
What I meant was, you can't just spew a prayer and that's it. You must want to be forgiven, really want it. The strength of the want is what I was trying to get across.

Totally agree with you here.

Even though Catholicism and Protestantism have some very deep differences, when it comes down to it, anyone who actually understands his or her beliefs can see what the central beliefs of Christianity are. They just bicker over the finer points of the law. The 1st century church would love to slap us all and scream a big "WAKE UP!" We live in a time where information can so easily be spread, but the internet is primarily being used for pornography. Tells you where people's hearts are.

:mp5: Another thread and poll dedicated to everyone's Catholic shame, TT. :mp5:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362641

Of course you should. If I am on a football team and one member makes a mistake costing us the game, the whole team must suffer because of his mistake. I take responsibility for your grandfather's death and I am sorry. Now maybe you Protesants can apologize so we can begin to heal the wounds.

It is as absurd and asinine for you to blame modern-day Protestants for what they did to your family as it would be for me to blame contemporary Germans (or Poles) for what their "teams" did to mine.

And considering that what happened to my folks would likely be considered "worse" (over 50 relatives, ranging from age 8 to 80, shot, starved, beaten, poisoned, gassed and systematically worked to death), I think that says something.

Just some food for thought.

Nice dancing around the question. :rolleyes:

What about the disastrous results it had on the Church as a whole?

I think the disastrous bit was probably as a result of millions of people all over Europe and America having sufficient economic and social independence that they didn't care what their society thought, and could all act like religions are the nonsense that they are. Protestantism in europe and north america has had the same dip in popularity as catholicism.

Kiss my Papist ass, you Protesant bastards. The Ulster Unionists burst into my grandparent's house and blew my grandfather's brains out while he was trying to enjoy his meager supper of the single potato his Protesant overlords would allow him to have as a daily ration.

Have you been to (london)derry and apologised to all the protestant bastards whose ancestors some catholics besieged until they starved?

Have you apologised to the families of all the protestant martyrs?

Have you apologised to all the people in the former yugoslavia who have been killed by catholics in religious wars in the last 1000 years? Including those who the catholics handed over to their nazi allies?

Have you apologised to all communists for their brothers and sisters killed by the catholic fascists in spain?

Have you apologised to muslims for the crusades?

The list goes on.

For you to claim any responsibility for any of the above is entirely ridiculous, as is your claim that others are responsible for the actions of all people of their religion.

I have more to show, but I would like your comments on what I have just displayed for you. Any replies?
your statistics make me so happy. it is always wonderful to see superstition being further marginalized by our increasingly educated and intelligent population. the US can measure its progress in recent years in part by the decline of organized religion, and it looks like that measure shows impressive gains and increasing success.

i think you have just presented ample reasons for me to support the modern Catholic Church, something which i NEVER thought anybody would manage; i think the modern Catholic Church is one of the most contemptible institutions in human history, but now you have shown me the bright side: 1) it is better than YOUR Catholic Church, and 2) it is both weakening your Church and losing ground for itself at the same time.

Is no one paying any attention to me when I state that Fistaria's story makes no sense? It may very well be that his grandfather was murdered by loyalist paramilitaries, but the framing details he give leave his account with little or no credibility.

Bodies Without Organs, I would probably say that more people are ignoring Fistaria than you, or they are just trying to refute Fistaria in a different manner (i.e. QahJoh's).

Is no one paying any attention to me when I state that Fistaria's story makes no sense? It may very well be that his grandfather was murdered by loyalist paramilitaries, but the framing details he give leave his account with little or no credibility.Personally, I don't see how Fistaria can hold anyone responsible for what their ancestors did. People living right now did not influence the people back then in any way, so why exactly are they responsible?

And hating their religion is not a good policy either, as many people just use it as an excuse to take revenge or be violent (terrorists).

And hating their religion is not a good policy either, as many people just use it as an excuse to take revenge or be violent (terrorists).

Well, for a start painting the 'troubles' in Northern Ireland as purely a Protestant vs Catholic one is to misrepresent the issue pretty severly. There are Catholic Unionists/Loyalists and Protestant Nationalists/Republicans, which rather scuppers the whole black and white Prod v. Taig thing.

Well, for a start painting the 'troubles' in Northern Ireland as purely a Protestant vs Catholic one is to misrepresent the issue pretty severly. There are Catholic Unionists/Loyalists and Protestant Nationalists/Republicans, which rather scuppers the whole black and white Prod v. Taig thing.Yeah, nothing is black and white, unfortunately. I wish it was.

Yeah, nothing is black and white, unfortunately. I wish it was.

Apart from zebras, skunks and pandas.

At least on the outside.

Is no one paying any attention to me when I state that Fistaria's story makes no sense? It may very well be that his grandfather was murdered by loyalist paramilitaries, but the framing details he give leave his account with little or no credibility.
not to slight your genius, but the nonsensical nature of Fistaria's posts is so blatantly obvious that i didn't think it needed to be commented upon. there's no doubt in my mind that he is making the entire thing up, so i didn't have much to say to him :P.

The REAL reason for all the Catholic attendances being down:

a) Generations of abuse by the priests, coupled with:
b) A generation educated enough to know they don't have to be quiet anymore. (This would be the Boomers or 60's generation.)

Coincidence? I think not!

Of course you should. If I am on a football team and one member makes a mistake costing us the game, the whole team must suffer because of his mistake. I take responsibility for your grandfather's death and I am sorry. Now maybe you Protesants can apologize so we can begin to heal the wounds.




Given most of us weren't even born then, I see no reason for us to apologize. A football team is all there at once and all has a direct effect in an action but blaming millions of Protestants for what a few of them did some many years ago is just not justifiable enough for an apology.

Apart from zebras, skunks and pandas.

At least on the outside.

Make mine a Filet O'Panda with fries and a Dr. Pepper!!

Have you been to (london)derry and apologised to all the protestant bastards whose ancestors some catholics besieged until they starved?

Have you apologised to the families of all the protestant martyrs?

As far as I know, at that time, heresy was considered a crime. All protesants were found to be guilty of heresy and therefore were punished. Do I agree with the punishment? Of course not. But those were different times. It was necessary. Just like the witch burnings in Salem. I mean, you don't see any witches around nowadays, do you?

Have you apologised to all the people in the former yugoslavia who have been killed by catholics in religious wars in the last 1000 years? Including those who the catholics handed over to their nazi allies?

Those are Eastern Orthodox, not Catholics. Get your facts straight and stop trying to be so goddamn self righteous.

Have you apologised to all communists for their brothers and sisters killed by the catholic fascists in spain?

Not being a facist myself, I refuse to accept responsibility for any actions commited by persons of that political ideaology. Do you, being an obvious pinko- commie, accept responsibility for the actions of Pol Pot, Mao or Stalin? Don't be so ridiculous.

Have you apologised to muslims for the crusades?

The Crusades took place long before the Protesant Reformation, you complete imbecile. That would make Protesants equally guilty for the Crusades.

You know, I was mostly trying to be humourous. I really have no interest in Catholicism, Protesanism or any other religion for that matter. I am an atheist. But when some waste DNA, like yourself, decides to argue with me based on factless information, well I can't refuse. Go ahead, make up some more garbage information.

The REAL reason for all the Catholic attendances being down:

a) Generations of abuse by the priests, coupled with:
b) A generation educated enough to know they don't have to be quiet anymore. (This would be the Boomers or 60's generation.)

Coincidence? I think not!
Abuse occurred in the Novus Ordo church, not the Roman Catholic Church.

http://www.geocities.com/pharsea/p6prot.jpg

Paul VI with protestant "ministers" who worked on the fabrication of the Novus Ordo Missae

Also pictured is Annabale Bugnini, later discovered to be a freemason, himself said: "[We] desire to do everything to facilitate the path of union for our separated brethren, by removing every stone that could constitute even the shadow of a risk of stumbling or of displeasure." [Osservatore Romano, March 19, 1965].

Jean Guitton, a distinguished French writer as well as the great friend and confidant of Paul VI, has said that his "intention .... was to reform the Catholic liturgy in such a way that it should almost coincide with the Protestant liturgy .... beyond the Council of Trent, and closer to the Protestant Lord's Supper .... making less room for all that some would call 'magic', (namely) .... transubstantial consecration, and for all what is of the Catholic Faith; .... there was with Paul VI an ecumenical intention to remove .... what was too Catholic, in the traditional sense, in the Mass, and, to get the Catholic Mass closer to the Calvinist mass."


Enough Catholic theology was removed from the NR of Mass that some Protestants can now use its text without difficulty. Rev. Thurian said that a fruit of the New mass "will perhaps be that the non-Catholic communities will be able to celebrate the Lord's Supper using the same prayers as the Catholic Church." [La Croix 4/30/69]


"The liturgical reform ... do not be deceived, this is where the revolution begins." [Msgr. Dwyer, Archbishop of Birmingham, spokesman of the Episcopal Conference of England and Wales.]

The Novus Ordo Religion prays:
"for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God, that they many continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant"
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/010_PopeEmbracesRabbi_ActMay-June2003.jpg

JPII eagerly steps forward to embrace the rabbi of Rome: the beginning of his visit to the Synagogue of Rome on April 13, 1986. A symbolic act denying the 2,000 years of Catholic teachings regarding the errors of the Jewish religion.
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/007PaulVI_rationale_30Gio7-8_2001.jpg
Wearing the Jewish rationale of judgment (see arrow), Paul VI visits the parish of Ognissanti in the Appio district of Rome.
The rationale, or pectoral, is a 12-stone breastplate worn exclusively by the Jewish high priest.





But the Catholic Church prays:
"for the perfidious Jews: that Our Lord and God may lift the covering off their hearts, so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ Our Lord."

http://www.fatherfeeney.org/miscellaneous/st-pius-v.jpg
Pope Saint Pius V: Codified the Latin Mass and expelled all the Jews


“Our ways of life and those of the Jews are utterly different, and Jews will easily pervert the souls of simple folk to their superstition and unbelief if such folk are living in continual and intimate intercourse with them.”
~Pope Alexander III

“We order all our brother bishops absolutely to suppress the blasphemy of Jews in your dioceses, churches, and communities, so that they do not dare raise their necks, bent under eternal slavery, to revile the Redeemer.”
~Pope Gregory IX

TT - are you a priest by any chance? Any plans on becoming one?

TT - are you a priest by any chance? Any plans on becoming one?
No, I am not a priest.

http://www.ihsv.com/62reas2.gif
~Max Turian
Protestant Minister of Taize


http://www.ihsv.com/62reas3.gif
~M. G. Siegvalt
Professor of Dogmatic Theology (Protestant), Strasbourg

your statistics make me so happy. it is always wonderful to see superstition being further marginalized by our increasingly educated and intelligent population. the US can measure its progress in recent years in part by the decline of organized religion, and it looks like that measure shows impressive gains and increasing success.

How can the population become more intelligent? I thought intelligence was a heritable trait ? Is there some kind of eugenics program in place that I am unaware of?

Also I don't think the population is more educated? Simply digesting agit-prop for four years does not a college degree make. So despite the so-called "increase" in education I don't think todays populace knows any better than people in the 1950s - if anything less.

As to your claim superstition is being further marginalized, I don't see that to be the case. Given the increase in interest in astrology, crappy cults, faux buddhism and pretend designer eastern philosophy, if anything the population is more easily led and guliable than ever - by a long way. At least old time organized religion pretended to intellectual rigor and logical thought, today people are just "highly spritiual" - which is no more than admission of mental impairment in my opinion.

Also TT's point is well taken about the Catholic Church. I am not a catholic, but I can see how the church's abandonment of its traditional theological roots and the consequent contradictions with its tradition, history and scripture, as well as the abolition of ia ceremony that has served it for over a thousand years, have resulted in the creation of an ineffectual mostly secular body, instead of an institution that preserves the mystery and majesty of God and the Christian tradition. I think TT's point is that through its reforms, catholicism has lost its numinous quality, and has become little more than a pale imitation of its former self. This is why, in his opnion, "priests" now abuse kids, and congregants are abandoning their faith because they no longer have any true connection to God in the "novus ordo" church.

A larger issue is, of course, whether or not TT is a parody character. If he is, his performance raises the interesting point that we are prepared to attack deeply held beliefs of christians that are at odds with our western liberal conception of morality, but on the other hand we would never attack a non-christian holding equally repugnant beliefs, rather we would defend their views in the name of "tolerence" and "multi-culture".

At least old time organized religion pretended to intellectual rigor and logical thought, today people are just "highly spritiual" - which is no more than admission of mental impairment in my opinion.

I tend to compare someone who calls themselves "spiritual" to a boyfriend who won't commit. (not that that idea is necessarily correct :confused: but that is the comparision my mind always wonders towards)

The Catholic Church Mourns the Death of
† MICHAEL DAVIES
who passed away on Saturday, September 25, 2004

I tend to compare someone who calls themselves "spiritual" to a boyfriend who won't commit. (not that that idea is necessarily correct :confused: but that is the comparision my mind always wonders towards)

Yes that is, perhaps, rather apt in the sense that those who are "spiritual" like the idea of a meaningful commitment, but lack the requisite depth and strength of character to make the needed sacrifices or invest the necessary time.

My larger point was, though, that the notion of "spirituality" in any way showing an improvement of mental faculties over those of previous generations is false. I can respect the intellect of an athesist that has a well though out and rigorously developed position - although I will not necessarily agree with their perspective or conclusions. Those who adhere to "spirituality" however, seem to envice the worst type of wooly thinking that the modern education system encourages. Anyone who believes in astrology and a "spiritual connection" ect. for example.

http://www.geocities.com/pharsea/Introit.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/pharsea/Communion.jpg
http://www.unavoce.org/peoplescommunion_illustration.jpg
The people receive the Blessed Sacrament, kneeling at the altar rail. The priest places the Host upon the tongue of each of the faithful, saying "Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam." Catholics not in good standing know better than to receive Christ's own Body.

[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] Avoid stretching the window width. [/modedit]

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/057_KerryCommunion01_Time.jpg
John Kohn joins in the party at a Novus Ordo festival, stuffing the Novus Ordo communion bread into his mouth. And what a coincidence- PHOTO OP!

JOHN PAUL II
KISSED THE KORAN!!!!
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/055_popekissesKoran.jpg
"And Jesus said to him: Judas, dost thou betray the Son of man with a kiss?"
~Luke 22:48



John Paul II kissed the Koran. Yes, the Koran which denies the Trinity and Christ. He received various muslims in an audience and at the end he was presented the Koran which he kissed. This was reported by Raphael I Bidawid, Patriarch of the Chaldeans in an interview with the FIDES News Service, as follows:



“On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shiite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni President of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim. At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.”



The Fides report of June 4th 1999 - No 4151 - is archived online (click on “Iraq” for the report and then hit “back” (twice) to return here):



http://web.archive.org/web/20020302081751/
http://www.fides.org/English/1999/e19990604.html



Such blasphemous treachery would have been unimaginable for popes before the “Vatican II” apostasy. But John Paul II is not a Catholic but is a syncretist who believes that God started all the false religions as means of salvation. He rejects the Catholic Faith as always believed by the Church. The traditional Catholic priest kisses the Gospels during Mass to show his reverence for them as the Word of God. But John Paul II thinks that the Koran is the word of God too! Let us hear his own heretical words:


“The various religions arose precisely from this primordial human openness to God. At their origins we often find founders who, with the help of God's Spirit, achieved a deeper religious experience. Handed on to others, this experience took form in the doctrines, rites and precepts of the various religions. […] Normally, it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour." (General Audience of September 9th 1999)



http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_09091998_en.html



Let us see what this blasphemous book, so dear, reverent and holy to John Paul II, says about the Trinity and Our Lord.


Koran denies the Trinity:



“Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: far exalted is He above having a son.” (Koran, Surah 4:171) (kiss?)



“Jesus was only a messenger of Allah.” (Koran, Surah 4:171) (kiss?)



“Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third person of the three; there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.” (Koran, Surah 5:73) (kiss?)



Koran denies that Jesus is the Son of God:



“Certainly you have made an abominable assertion. The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, that they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take to Himself a son.” (Koran, Surah 19:88-95) (kiss?)



“That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him.” (Koran 19:34,35) (kiss?)



Koran denies the Crucifixion and the Resurrection:



“Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness.” (Koran, Surah 4:156) (kiss?)



“That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.” (Koran, Surah 4:157) (kiss?)



So the Koran completely and explicitly denies the Catholic Faith. (kiss?)



Yes, the blasphemous apostate John Paul II kissed the lot

and was photographed doing it!!!!

http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/a/ae/Altarrails.jpg
The altar rails around the sanctuary, where the faithful kneel for Communion.
http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/c/c9/Unchurch.jpg
Another Catholic altar. Many were completely ripped apart and removed following the apostate Vatican II council.
The apostate Novus Ordoists are still trying to destroy Catholic altars and Churches to pay off their homosexual scandals!
Visit http://www.anti-abomination.com/ for more information.

http://www.realnews247.com/new_mass_table_and_altar.jpg
This picture is a Catholic parish in transition from the "traditional Roman Catholic" look to the Masonic oriented look. Notice the Masonic-style table that has been inelegantly plopped in the middle of the sanctuary. This was the first step -- to just intrude the Masonic type table into the sanctuary. It would have been a little obvious and abrupt if, in 1969 when Paul VI ordered the "New Mass", the order would have been given to tear out all the traditional altars. So the first step of gradualism—inserting the table in front of the altar—was taken.

Then came the next abominable step, one of many:
http://www.realnews247.com/parishioners_cry_sacrilege_files/N_Cambria.jpg
Parishoners Cry Sacrilege
Church Throws Altar into Trash

Part of an altar removed from St. John the Baptist Roman Catholic
Church in Northern Cambria lies in a dumpster.

The destruction of beautiful churches has been but one of the devastating results of the post-Vatican II era. High altars, statues, altar rails, and other beautiful ornamentation, are believed, by some, to be outmoded and unnecessary in light of the new "reforms." The deception and manipulation of the devoted faithful by certain "experts" follows a numbingly familiar pattern. Construction teams are called in late at night while people are unsuspecting. It is insisted that the 100 year old altars were "unnecessary duplications", and a local church that prides itself on "welcoming, compassion, and openness" shuts its ears to the cries of the faithful as their sacred heritage is destroyed.

If a liturgical rite that was used for nearly 1400 years was nearly abolished, some of this comes as little surprise since there will be little sensitivity shown towards the sacred architecture of the churches built for the ancient liturgy.

The faithful of St. John's parish, who fought against these destructive actions, are to be commended for their courage and devotion. May their cries echo throughout the church as a warning and an appeal to all - so that we might be able to preserve the sacred Catholic spiritual and artistic heritage for future generations.

(the following is an excerpt from a news report)
http://www.realnews247.com/parishioners_cry_sacrilege_files/N_Cambria-frontpage_small.jpgNORTHERN CAMBRIA - PENNSYLVANIA, USA Parishioners of St. John the Baptist Roman Catholic Church feel betrayed by what some term a desecration after the church’s nearly century-old altar was ripped out, broken apart and tossed into a Dumpster.

Dumpster is filled with discarded church furnishings

Diocese officials are embroiled in the consolidation of six churches into a new Prince of Peace parish with two churches, the current St. John and four other churches will be closed.

"It is desecration, not only of a holy object, but also a desecration of our feelings because this focus of the practice of our faith has been so cavalierly destroyed despite our objections," said parishioner Monica Wadium. The Philadelphia Avenue resident traces her family membership in the church to her grandparents.

But the Rev. Gerard Connolly, who serves as parish priest at St. John, 811 Chestnut Ave., and Our Lady of Mount Carmel, defended the destruction of the altar that, one expert says, would cost $15,000 to $50,000 to replace.

Connolly said the altar stone, a sacred object was removed and put in storage before the altar, a mixture of horsehair reinforced wjth steel, was discarded.

The altar was to be taken to a landfill and buried. The Two devotional altars also were dismantled and discarded, Connolly said.

"What is the reason for renovating St. John?" Wadium asked. "There is no church law, or even directive, that states our altar had to be destroyed. It was an integral part of our cburch architecture and the pride and joy of our community."

Michael Rose, author of "The Renovation Manipulation," a book written to help congregations stop cosmetic changes, said they often are done at the whim of Catholic heirarchy and not always necessary.

"It was priceless to the community," he said about the altar during a telephone interview from his office in Cincinnati.

"I have seen pictures of it and can tell you it was a major work of art."

Wadium said the altar was put in when the church was built in 1903. She said the immigrant families were poverty-stricken but filled with faith and struggled to make the altar the central focal point of St. John.

Rose said he was outraged the bishop in Altoona-Johnstown Roman Catholic Diocese allowed the removal. He said the bishop is charged with protecting the sacred patrimony of the church, its physical heritage.

But Connolly said the altar had not been updated since Vatican II, a meeting of bishops in Rome during the mid-1960s. He said it was a necessary change.

As word started spreading in the tightly knit Catholic community about the altar’s fate, more members came forward.

More than a dozen St. John parishioners feel betrayed by Connolly and the diocesan bishop, the Most Rev. Joseph Adamec.

Joe Minarish Jr. joined Wadium and other churchgoers in expressing shock and outrage.

But, said Minarish, others have been afraid to speak for fear of retribution from church officials.

"They’re afraid they will be excommunicated or refused for burial in a Catholic cemetery," he said.

He said he believed the other 90 percent of parishioners are unhappy with the renovations and have been afraid to say anything until now.

Wadium and Minarish said the real sin is the secret manner in which the renovation was decided.

"The plans for renovation have been withheld from the parishioners, so that it was impossible to prevail upon the pastor and the bishop to consider an alternative," Benamati said in the letter.

Wadium, Minarish, Biros and another dissenter, Ed Kerchesky, said their requests for information from committee members and the priest went unanswered.

"One member of the committee told us be was sworn to secrecy," Kerchesky said. "We asked Father (Connolly) to inform us in the church bulletin, but he never did."

Church member Robert Benamati was chosen by the group to write a letter to Rome outlining their discontent. It said that, "Connolly and the bishop acted in a decptive manner to needlessly diminish the temporal goods of the parish."

The plans for renovation have been withheld from the parishioners, so that it was impossible to prevail upon the pastor and the bishop to consider an alternative," Benamati said in the letter.

Sister Mary Parks, spokeswoman for the diocese, defended the church consolidations. Although money will be saved by the church closings, that is not the main reason for consolidation, she said. "What will be saved is an enormous amount of duplication," she

But the decendents of the people who founded St. John, the core group of dissenters, do not believe they are wrong.

A parishioner from Mount Carmel who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he did not believe the merger is necessary. He said theshortage of priests could be corrected by bringing in others from side the area.

Calling this a "defining moment for church leaders, the elder spoke against blanket acquisition.

"Mergers by themselves are not good," he said as he talked about consolidation wave sweeping the business world. "People lose identity and become like furniture to the powers that be."

Like thieves in the night

After five years of deception and lies by leaders of the Altoona-Johnstown (Novus Ordo) Diocese, our worst fears became reality. On May 27 around 4 p.m., destruction of our sanctuary began at St. John the Baptist Roman Catholic Church, Northern Cambria.

Two contractors from C.E. Wood of Altoona appeared out of nowhere.

We-— Joseph Minarish, Helen Biros, Edward Kerchesky and Carol Benamati — parishioners stood there in disbelief at the sight of two workmen in steel-toed boots standing on our beautiful sacred altar. They were ripping, tearing and smashing at our nearly 100-year-old main altar with crowbars, sledge hammers and electric saws.

Alongside stood our parish priest, Rev. Gerard Comielly(Novus Ordo), TOR, looking on in approval. Gerard asked us to leave. We returned later with other parishioners equally upset at the destruction. Once again, Gerard demanded that we leave or he would call the police. We left.

Gerard went against his word. After leaving the premises of the church, we were standing on Elizabeth Street and the police arrived. The officer informed us that, upon orders from Gerard, we are not permitted to enter the body of the church.

Is Gerard so ashamed of what he is letting the contractors do to the sanctuary of our church that he did not want anyone else to see? The contractors appeared over and over again, in the early morning hours, late evening and after dark, when they were least expected.

The saddest of all is the way our altar was disposed. For over a week, the remains of our consecrated altar lay in a dumpster along with a bag of garbage and two old tires.

Where is the respect for God? Where is the respect for the people who worked so hard and sacrificed so much so that their future generations may know and understand the history of the church? Is this how we are to dispose of sacred objects?

Our sanctuary has now been destroyed and can never be replaced. Like thieves in the night, they came, they destroyed and they left.
http://www.realnews247.com/parishioners_cry_sacrilege_files/N_Cambria-greyscale.jpg

ONLY IN THE NOVUS ORDO...
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/036_ComicPope3.jpg

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/042_CearaEucharCongress_Manchete7-26-1980.jpg
Dancing for JPII

At the opening of the Eucharistic Congress in Fortaleza, Brazil,
John Paul II authorized the performance of popular dances
in front of the stadium "altar."
Below, young women in immodest leotards holding strands of wheat symbolizing the Eucharist wait to perform for the pope.

Dancing for the Pope has been a new way to give citizenship to immodest dress and gestures.

I think you've made your point pretty clear thus far, TT. However, when people have asked you about it, you have (for the most part) completely ignored them.

You can read just as well as I can. Remember the Great Commission? Jesus told Christians to go and make disciples of all the nations. Yet, when people display interest in or argument to your beliefs, you only show quotes and pictures. You can claim to be a great Christian because you follow old tradition, but I think Jesus Christ and God will care more about the people who you spurned instead of tried to convert. Helping to keep someone from being sent to Hell should have a much higher priority than building a nice looking building.

I always thought Jesus was very clear in his teachings about how the Pharisees and Sadduccees were condemning themselves by taking great pride in following Jewish tradition while being cold and hard inside. The 1st century church - as traditional as you can get - was very nearly socialist and met wherever they could, be it a house, a bank of a river, or a town square. The big importance was that the Word of God be spread, not the tradition be followed. Jesus came to save the Jews from just following tradition.

Then came the next abominable step, one of many:
http://www.realnews247.com/parishioners_cry_sacrilege_files/N_Cambria.jpg
[COLOR=Red]Parishoners Cry Sacrilege
Church Throws Altar into Trash

Part of an altar removed from St. John the Baptist Roman Catholic
Church in Northern Cambria lies in a dumpster.

http://www.realnews247.com/parishioners_cry_sacrilege_files/N_Cambria-greyscale.jpg
Whatever you say, the altar was not a holy object. It is a tool to help celebrate the Mass, but is not in itself integral to the celebration. This appears to be you just trying to dig up accusations against the Catholic Church.

JOHN PAUL II
KISSED THE KORAN!!!!
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/055_popekissesKoran.jpg
"And Jesus said to him: Judas, dost thou betray the Son of man with a kiss?"
~Luke 22:48

[COLOR=Red]John Paul II kissed the Koran. Yes, the Koran which denies the Trinity and Christ. He received various muslims in an audience and at the end he was presented the Koran which he kissed. This was reported by Raphael I Bidawid, Patriarch of the Chaldeans in an interview with the FIDES News Service, as follows:

“The various religions arose precisely from this primordial human openness to God. At their origins we often find founders who, with the help of God's Spirit, achieved a deeper religious experience. Handed on to others, this experience took form in the doctrines, rites and precepts of the various religions. […] Normally, it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour." [/B](General Audience of September 9th 1999)Simply from the quote, you can tell that he does not accept that their religion is the true one, only that it was inspired by God. You may twist this as you will, but it makes you look foolish. The people that truely believe in their faith and practice it will go to a state of grace - but you don't believe that.

Abuse occurred in the Novus Ordo church, not the Roman Catholic Church.

Care to explain the Borgias?

For that matter, *please* explain the pre-Vatican 2 abuses?
http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/022404/a01p24catholicsurvey.html
"Several major archdioceses have already released their figures. The Archdiocese of Los Angeles, the nation's largest, went back 20 years more than required, reporting that 656 people had accused 244 clergy of child sexual abuse since 1930. The Archdiocese of Detroit, the fifth largest in the nation, reported that 116 people had made accusations against 63 clergy."

You're full of crap, and you know it.

I just love (not) these random collection of mostly pointless photographs. So in the spirit of pointless photographs, I'll throw in my own.

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL291/1756382/5113060/60146873.jpg

Why look, here is a faithful priest. In union with the true successor to St. Peter, John Paul II, he celebrates the true sacrifice of the mass as it was intended to be celebrated. He is neither a schismatic as are the Sedivacantists, nor is he a liturgical abuser as are those who celebrate "clown" masses.

You can indeed judge a tree by the fruit it produces. I find this thread nother but rotten sour oranges ... possibly useful for a good marinade if they weren't rotten, but otherwise not useful for eating. Take thy fruit and return it to Satan where you have received it from. I tell you Prostenants will enter the Kingdom of God before you. Because from those who are given much, much will be required! Since you know the importance of the role of the Successor to Peter but refuse his communion and council, you will have to answer that in front of St. Peter himself!

Are you a Catholic sir?

(I know you claim to be so let's move on)

Then how can you oppose to rulings of the Vatican Council? It was called my at least four sepesrate infalable Pontiffs and when concluded definitively decided many matters that were not definitivly covered by earlie Church rulings.

Your herasy knows no bounds sir and as a Catholic I pray that you silence your herasy and repent before you are marked against the damned, For there is no room for herasy in Christ's Church. NONE!

iLock pending a full review (which I don't have time for right now).

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362496

http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7168676&postcount=18
Presently in the cesspool of Jew York, in the Jewnited States.
Trolling.
http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7168916&postcount=41
As I have already stated, the Jewnited States.
Trolling.
http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7168943&postcount=46
What election? Elections do not occur in the Jewnited States.
Trolling.
Given that you've been forumbanned for trolling, before, iModBomb.

...

http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7168829&postcount=32
Kiss my Papist ass, you Protesant bastards. The Ulster Unionists burst into my grandparent's house and blew my grandfather's brains out while he was trying to enjoy his meager supper of the single potato his Protesant overlords would allow him to have as a daily ration.
Fistasia: Official Warning - Flaming
http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7168859&postcount=36
All of you: Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists. You have made our existince a living hell.
http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7169052&postcount=65
Bloody Mary should have finished the job. I can't believe you scumbags have the audacity to laugh off the story of my grandfather's horrible death.
How your gandfather died does not give you license to come onto NationStates and start hurling abuse at other players.

...

http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7168936&postcount=44
You know what? Checking that you don't have a laughable story before trolling might be a good idea next time.
Don't feed the trolls.

...

http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7171166&postcount=97
your statistics make me so happy. it is always wonderful to see superstition being further marginalized by our increasingly educated and intelligent population. the US can measure its progress in recent years in part by the decline of organized religion, and it looks like that measure shows impressive gains and increasing success.

i think you have just presented ample reasons for me to support the modern Catholic Church, something which i NEVER thought anybody would manage; i think the modern Catholic Church is one of the most contemptible institutions in human history, but now you have shown me the bright side: 1) it is better than YOUR Catholic Church, and 2) it is both weakening your Church and losing ground for itself at the same time.
Since I'm Catholic, I'm going to assume a bias on my part and not issue an official warning against you. Nevertheless, your comments come very close to trolling and you are best advised to cool it.

...

Now, as there may still be some potential for rational, civil debate in this thread, iUnlock.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

...

what is the purpose of posting those pictures, i think they are all a bunch of pictures and that they fail to support you argument against everything other than whatever it is that you believe
I think he's trying to say that how the altar is arranged is a reflection on ones attitude about God and Man. I think he's also trying to say that Roman Catholic altars are focused on god and that the altars of the Novus Ordo are not focused on God. Therefore, I think that he's trying to conclude that the Novus Ordo do not give proper reverence to God, and that Roman Catholics do give proper reverence to God.

I also think that he's not expressing himself very clearly, so I think that I could be wrong.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7168936&postcount=44

Don't feed the trolls.

Can I ask for a clarification here: this isn't an official warning, and feeding trolls is not prohibited provided it doesn't itself constitute flamebait, trolling or other prohibited actions, yes?

Can I ask for a clarification here: this isn't an official warning,
Correct. This is not an official warning.

and feeding trolls is not prohibited provided it doesn't itself constitute flamebait, trolling or other prohibited actions, yes?
/me thinks this over very carefully.

I think that's correct, but I'm not sure. At the very least, trollfeeding is a discouraged activity, but I don't recall if it's specifically prohibited.

Let me get back to you on that.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

You people run this forum like a Nazi police state. I apologize for my "flaming". Being a mod on another site, I have a much different view of flaming. I believe the internet is meant to be a venue for free speech, but apparently not everyone in cyberspace shares that same view. I will allow anything to go other than graphic photographs, spam or blatant bigotry. From what I have been able to gather from this site, racism and bigotry are allowed while language I have heard from my parish priest is not. Keep up the good work. And above all else: go to Christ.

The Ulster Unionists burst into my grandparent's house and blew my grandfather's brains out while he was trying to enjoy his meager supper of the single potato his Protesant overlords would allow him to have as a daily ration.

At the risk of being accused of feeding the trolls - can I ask when this event occured?

Look, I made the whole story up. I thought it sounded rather humourous.

Look, I made the whole story up. I thought it sounded rather humourous.

Thought as much. Do you actually have any connection to Northern Ireland at all?

No. One of my grandfathers is from the south.

Look, I made the whole story up. I thought it sounded rather humourous.

Charming. My story, in case you're curious, wasn't made up.

I believe you. Many Eastern Europeans I have met were rabid anti-semites (not to say that they all are). My grandfather did have a grenade thrown in his house when he was a child, but that was actually from Catholic extremists. His uncle was a police officer and had shot one of them and concequently, his entire family became targets. That story is true.