NationStates Jolt Archive

This thread is only for those Christians who believe in Purgatory. It is widely believed in the Catholic Church and elsewhere that after you die, you must go to purgatory to be cleansed and somehow work off your sins before you go to heaven. I would like to know, since Purgatory, or anything like it, is never mentioned in the Bible, why the Catholic Church still hangs on to this ancient and medieval relic?

Purgatory was created by Jesus. Before Jesus was born, no one was permitted into Heaven, the saints and "heroes" in the Bible, were in a place referred to as "Limbo" a waiting line as it were. Everyone in the world who sinned was sent to hell with no opportunity to redeem themselves. Jesus made purgatory so we may have the choice to redeem ourselves. Thats why they call him the savior of man, he obviously didnt bring peace to the world, but he opened the door to bring peace to our souls. We cannot enter heaven without being cleansed of evil, we must be pure, thats when we go through purgatory.

It was originally made to make greiving relatives give donations to the church.

Purgatory was created by Jesus. Before Jesus was born, no one was permitted into Heaven, the saints and "heroes" in the Bible, were in a place referred to as "Limbo" a waiting line as it were. Everyone in the world who sinned was sent to hell with no opportunity to redeem themselves. Jesus made purgatory so we may have the choice to redeem ourselves. Thats why they call him the savior of man, he obviously didnt bring peace to the world, but he opened the door to bring peace to our souls. We cannot enter heaven without being cleansed of evil, we must be pure, thats when we go through purgatory.
Can you give Bible verses to support this doctrine?

geez susa ITS ALL MYTH

there is the myth of purgatory and limbo
there is the myth that the bible is the inerrant word of god
there is the myth of joseph smith and the golden plates
there is the myth that athena sprang full grown from the head of zeus.

why pick on one religions myths when your own has plenty? you think a bunch of teenagers can do better than 2000 years of christian theologians?

there is theology behind the concept of purgatory. you can believe it or not. the "proof" will come after your dead.

pick a myth and go with it.

This is the myth we're going with and we just going to talk about it not try to beat the "2000 years of christian theologians".

Everything you need to know about God in this helpful FAQ:

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/index.html

"MYTH"- why is it a myth, it is a believe, not an ancient tale. Is God a "myth".

Myth usually directs scepticsm and negative feeling.

Everything you need to know about God in this helpful FAQ:

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/index.html

Strangely, when I asked Him myself for the first time (approx. 5-6 years ago), I got a different answer, and became a Christian 4 years and 7 months ago.
I just asked Him now, and He still says He's there.

Can you give Bible verses to support this doctrine?

Yes I can ... but why?

I'm absolutely serious about this. I believe that Sola Scriptura is a bad enough heresy as it is, but the notion that you can justify anything by finding a few out of context scripture verses to justify it is so far wrong and unbiblical to be almost beyond heresy.

2 Peter 3:15-16 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

Unless you seriously believe that the Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of truth becase this has been revealed to us by God through the Holy Spirit, then no chapter (the bible was divided into chapters around the 11th century) and no verse (the bible was divided into verses with the invention of Gutenburg's press) will be of any use one way or the other.

If you want to seriously look into the Catholic teaching on Purgatory, you can start here (http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp) and you can also see how the doctrine was described by the early fathers of the Church (http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp) but otherwise you can spout whatever scriptural or logical nonsense you feel comfortable with.

Strangely, when I asked Him myself for the first time (approx. 5-6 years ago), I got a different answer, and became a Christian 4 years and 7 months ago.
I just asked Him now, and He still says He's there.

Havn't been keeping up with your meds lately?

Havn't been keeping up with your meds lately?
I take it you are an atheist of some category or other (humanist/materialist/existentialist)?

Unless you seriously believe that the Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of truth becase this has been revealed to us by God through the Holy Spirit, then no chapter (the bible was divided into chapters around the 11th century) and no verse (the bible was divided into verses with the invention of Gutenburg's press) will be of any use one way or the other.


So, are you saying that unless someone is a member of the Roman Catholic church, and accepts all RC doctrine and teaching, they cannot gain any value from the Bible?

Strangely, when I asked Him myself for the first time (approx. 5-6 years ago), I got a different answer, and became a Christian 4 years and 7 months ago.
I just asked Him now, and He still says He's there.

If you "asked Him" then you clearly already believed, and just wanted confirmation. Evidently you found something that you interpreted as confirmation. I am curious as to what that something was.

Yes I can ... but why?

I'm absolutely serious about this. I believe that Sola Scriptura is a bad enough heresy as it is, but the notion that you can justify anything by finding a few out of context scripture verses to justify it is so far wrong and unbiblical to be almost beyond heresy.

2 Peter 3:15-16 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

Unless you seriously believe that the Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of truth becase this has been revealed to us by God through the Holy Spirit, then no chapter (the bible was divided into chapters around the 11th century) and no verse (the bible was divided into verses with the invention of Gutenburg's press) will be of any use one way or the other.

If you want to seriously look into the Catholic teaching on Purgatory, you can start here (http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp) and you can also see how the doctrine was described by the early fathers of the Church (http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp) but otherwise you can spout whatever scriptural or logical nonsense you feel comfortable with.
i particularit liked this paragraph from the first site you linked to:

Sometimes Protestants object that Jesus told the thief on the cross that, on the very day the two of them died, they would be together in paradise (Luke 23:43), which they read as a denial of purgatory. However, the argument backfires and actually supports purgatory by proving the existence of a state other than heaven and hell, since Jesus did not go to heaven on the day he died. Peter tells us that he "went and preached to the spirits in prison" (1 Pet. 3:19), and, after his resurrection, Christ himself declared: "I have not yet ascended to the Father" (John 20:17). Thus at that time paradise was located in some third state besides heaven and besides hell.

it seems to me (a catholic athiest) that these various doctrines of various sects of christianity are unimportant

the lifelong virginity of mary, her bodily assumption into heaven, purgatory, limbo, the baptism of babies, saints and statues, prayers for the dead. these are things you can debate with god in heaven eh?

the important thing is to follow the teaching of jesus. that is what makes you christian. NO christian denomination existed when jesus walked the earth, all these things were debated by humans afterwards and decided BY COMMITTEE. this is true no matter what sect you belong to. they are ALL matters for debate and for a vote of some committe or other afterwards.

If you "asked Him" then you clearly already believed, and just wanted confirmation. Evidently you found something that you interpreted as confirmation. I am curious as to what that something was.
No, I didn't believe when I first asked. I was conducting a thought experiment suggested to me by a Christian friend.
It goes like this; you ask God to reveal Himself to you if He exists. If He doesn't exist, you just wasted ten seconds. If He does exist, He'll find a way to get through to you.
I'm not sure I can explain the confirmation God gave me in words, but He basically changed my mind about Him, not just through rational arguments (though I did hear a lot of those), but by removing my internal bias against accepting Him. It's one of those miracle things; it's the only way people start to believe, by God helping them to.

No, I didn't believe when I first asked. I was conducting a thought experiment suggested to me by a Christian friend.
It goes like this; you ask God to reveal Himself to you if He exists. If He doesn't exist, you just wasted ten seconds. If He does exist, He'll find a way to get through to you.
I'm not sure I can explain the confirmation God gave me in words, but He basically changed my mind about Him, not just through rational arguments (though I did hear a lot of those), but by removing my internal bias against accepting Him. It's one of those miracle things; it's the only way people start to believe, by God helping them to.

Fair enough. I am an atheist, but I will not start yet another "existence of God" topic.

Fair enough. I am an atheist, but I will not start yet another "existence of God" topic.
You mean sometimes people start threads on the existence of God?
;)

No, I didn't believe when I first asked. I was conducting a thought experiment suggested to me by a Christian friend.
It goes like this; you ask God to reveal Himself to you if He exists. If He doesn't exist, you just wasted ten seconds. If He does exist, He'll find a way to get through to you.
I'm not sure I can explain the confirmation God gave me in words, but He basically changed my mind about Him, not just through rational arguments (though I did hear a lot of those), but by removing my internal bias against accepting Him. It's one of those miracle things; it's the only way people start to believe, by God helping them to.

funny, when i was a christian i did this and got no response...


interesting how that works...