NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so we've already ruined one thread but hopefully this will help lessen the burden on it. Any thoughts. Personally, the Bible should be written in Greek and yes, Protestants are as christian as Catholics. Neither is better or worse than the other.

you forgot to say in the thread that you wanted to move the discussion here

Protestants are as christian as Catholics. Neither is better or worse than the other.

tell that to the protestants and catholics. maybe they'll stop calling each other heretics and condemning eachother to hell...

tell that to the protestants and catholics. maybe they'll stop calling each other heretics and condemning eachother to hell...



I'm a Protestant and I believe that, if it counts.

I'm a Protestant and I believe that, if it counts.
well, i'm neither. i'm agnostic, but i do tend to notice protestants (esp baptists) calling catholics idolaters and such, and catholics saying that protestants are going to hell and all this and that...

it's really quite silly if you ask me.

Okay we'll start off again:

extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Wow, you ring the same bell over and over again TT and expect to hear a different sound. You won't convince anyone but yourself with that.

The true language of the Bible is...













...1337$p34|<.

Wow, you ring the same bell over and over again TT and expect to hear a different sound. You won't convince anyone but yourself with that.
The Truth must be known!

The Truth must be known!



Wow for the truth, you seem to be the only one believing it here. Also, you seem to discredit a large portion of Christianity by saying that. Did you know Catholicism is on the down trend in a tradionaly Catholic country like Mexico. People change but that doesn't make them a tool of Satan.

The Truth must be known!

yeah, it's important that everyone give credit where credit is due. we should all thank brahmin for creating us and our world, vishnu for preserving our world and ourselves and shiva for destroying it so that it can all begin again.

the truth must be known!

Americanist Liberalism at work in Europe:


"Catholic" Spain declares plans for apostasy!
Spanish Apostasy (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/25/wspain25.xml)

Sweden admits Mohammadans control its cities:
Swedish Multicult Mess (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003131.php)

Good for Denmark, bad for Sweden:
Danish Multiculturalists Escape to Sweden (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/09/aloveas_refugee.php)

Austrians escape liberal homosexual-infested church:
Austrians Escape Homosexual Church (http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1122942004)

Swedish pastor sent to prison for offending homosexuals:
"Free" Europe Silences Opposition Yet Again (http://www.eni.ch/highlights/news.shtml?2004/06)

"France and the Holy See are joined in the fight for a world which places Man at the centre of every enterprise."
Chirac and John Paul Are At It Again (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/14/france.pope/index.html)

Holland is truly a cesspit in more ways than one nowadays:
Hellish Holland (http://www.sspx.ca/Angelus/2004_FebMar/Hellish_Holland.htm)

Ireland no longer Catholic:
Church Faces Crisis in Ireland (http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/02/15/story730395567.asp)

Nor Belgium:
Apostasy in Brussels (http://www.novusordowatch.org/story071804.htm)

Nor Italy:
Satanism on Rise in Italy (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=1554)

Things aren't much better in the U.K.:
"Catholic Priests Decline, More Liberalism At Work (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/08/nrc08.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/08/ixhome.html)

yeah, it's important that everyone give credit where credit is due. we should all thank brahmin for creating us and our world, vishnu for preserving our world and ourselves and shiva for destroying it so that it can all begin again.

the truth must be known!




Thank you, the truth comes in many forms.

I'm a Protestant and I believe that, if it counts.
I am a Catholic and I believe that the Churchs may differ on matters of doctrine but only in so far as is allowed under the Freedom of Conscience granted us under the Second Vatican Council.
Since there are no fundlimental opposition to ex cathedra doctrine, by which I do mean fundementally, there is no act of heresay commited by either Church.
However, I do believe that true unity can only be acheived when the Churchs release us from their unholy grasp on our beliefs and allow us our God-given right to decided matters of morality, faith and ethics based upon our own conscience. Which is the physical embodiment of God within us all.
How dare the Church act against what it is that God himself leads us to believe. This is true herasy.

yeah, it's important that everyone give credit where credit is due. we should all thank brahmin for creating us and our world, vishnu for preserving our world and ourselves and shiva for destroying it so that it can all begin again.

the truth must be known!
"All the invocations of the pagans are hateful
to God because all their gods are devils"
- Saint Francis Xavier, in a letter to St. Ignatius of Loyola, referring to the Hindoos while in India

I am a Catholic and I believe that the Churchs may differ on matters of doctrine but only in so far as is allowed under the Freedom of Conscience granted us under the Second Vatican Council.
Since there are no fundlimental opposition to ex cathedra doctrine, by which I do mean fundementally, there is no act of heresay commited by either Church.
However, I do believe that true unity can only be acheived when the Churchs release us from their unholy grasp on our beliefs and allow us our God-given right to decided matters of morality, faith and ethics based upon our own conscience. Which is the physical embodiment of God within us all.
How dare the Church act against what it is that God himself leads us to believe. This is true herasy.
Do you deny the great Catholic dogma of
extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

"All the invocations of the pagans are hateful
to God because all their gods are devils"
- Saint Francis Xavier, in a letter to St. Ignatius of Loyola, referring to the Hindoos while in India



A non-bias person making that statement of course.

Ok, so we've already ruined one thread but hopefully this will help lessen the burden on it. Any thoughts. Personally, the Bible should be written in Greek and yes, Protestants are as christian as Catholics. Neither is better or worse than the other.

Problem is, Joseph, Moses, Jesus and all other prophets didn't speak Greek, they spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. But, since the oldest texts of the New Testament are in Greek and date back no further than 300AD, there's no logical reason to ascribe great importance to any particular verse. The texts of the Old Testament, despite Jewish claims of inerrancy, don't have verifiable authentication either.

Basically, the text, whatever greatness you aspire to it's supposed author/inspiration, is not letter for letter accurate by a long way. So just look at the jist of it.

Genesis 31:36 And Jacob was dander, and chode with Laban: and Jacob answered and cackled to Laban, What is my caterver? what is my kertever, that thou hast so hotly pursued after me?

And you have a quote from a distorted translation of the bible. Typical of protestantism.

Problem is, Joseph, Moses, Jesus and all other prophets didn't speak Greek, they spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. But, since the oldest texts of the New Testament are in Greek and date back no further than 300AD, there's no logical reason to ascribe great importance to any particular verse. The texts of the Old Testament, despite Jewish claims of inerrancy, don't have verifiable authentication either.

Basically, the text, whatever greatness you aspire to it's supposed author/inspiration, is not letter for letter accurate by a long way. So just look at the jist of it.


Oh, I know they didn't speak Greek but I'm saying that it was spoken long before Latin. They spoke Aramaic (not exatc spelling, I think) which is now spoken mostly by hisotrians and scribes of the jewish religion.

And you have a quote from a distorted translation of the bible. Typical of protestantism.




And you seem ignorant, which is untypical of catholocism.

And you seem ignorant, which is untypical of catholocism.
You may be high on rhetoric, but you're record so far indicates it is you who is the master of ignorance.

Okay we'll start off again:

extra ecclesiam nulla salus

What does that mean?

What does that mean?
Outside the Church there is no salvation.

You may be high on rhetoric, but you're record so far indicates it is you who is the master of ignorance.





You're right, I don't dislike gay people, black people, jews or liberals. You are simply too proud at this point to accept something called "differences". There are over 6 billion humans and if you can't accept differences among them, then you will truly become paranoid.

"All the invocations of the pagans are hateful
to God because all their gods are devils"
- Saint Francis Xavier, in a letter to St. Ignatius of Loyola, referring to the Hindoos while in India

hindoos?

hindhu.

and i'm pretty sure that god would be more pissed at intolerance and hatred of other human beings.

hindoos?

hindhu.

and i'm pretty sure that god would be more pissed at intolerance and hatred of other human beings.
Well perhaps your devil god but not the One True God incarnate in Iesus Christ.

And you have a quote from a distorted translation of the bible. Typical of protestantism.

Excuse me, but I'm an infidel, so Protestantism is irrelvant to me, anyway. Are you saying that translations of the Bible are inherently distorted? Do you read the Bible in Latin? No? You read it in English, your language, if you read it at all. I read it in Polari, the language of my people.

Outside the Church there is no salvation.

More literally it's like "No salvation outside the Church." But I'm not certain of that.

Excuse me, but I'm an infidel, so Protestantism is irrelvant to me, anyway. Are you saying that translations of the Bible are inherently distorted? Do you read the Bible in Latin? No? You read it in English, your language, if you read it at all. I read it in Polari, the language of my people.
No, the Latin Vulgate is the only inerrant translation of the Bible from the Greek and Hebrew.

More literally it's like "No salvation outside the Church." But I'm not certain of that.
Based on word order, the other way is more literal but this is all semantics.

Well perhaps your devil god but not the One True God incarnate in Iesus Christ.




God hates intolerance of which you display by discrediting all the things you do. God never says he is intolerant. Jesus, infact, was the most tolerant human being ever. He accpeted leppers, protistutes, adulterers and woman at a time when they were spat upon by the general public. He made sure they asked for forgiveness of their sins but accpeted them.

God hates intolerance and stupidity, both of which you display by discrediting all the things you do. God never says he is intolerant. Jesus, infact, was the most tolerant human being ever. He accpeted leppers, protistutes, adulterers and woman at a time when they were spat upon by the general public. He made sure they asked for forgiveness of their sins but accpeted them.
Relevance?

Based on word order, the other way is more literal but this is all semantics.

Yeah, but Latin doesn't follow the same order as English. I know it's just semantics.

Yeah, but Latin doesn't follow the same order as English. I know it's just semantics.
Latin doesn't require any specific word order, although there are some conventions in that regard.

Relevance?





You are intolerant and attribute that to God as well.

You are intolerant and attribute that to God as well.
How am I intolerant? And where does God condemn your supposed accusation?

Oh, I know they didn't speak Greek but I'm saying that it was spoken long before Latin. They spoke Aramaic (not exatc spelling, I think) which is now spoken mostly by hisotrians and scribes of the jewish religion.

My point is, Jesus spoke Aramaic. No record of his words in Aramaic exists. Greek is the language of the oldest manuscripts of the New Testament, but it's still just limiting flaws. It's better to have an agreed texts from recognised scholars than to depend on what is ultimately flawed translations, and edited ones at that. There were many versions of NT texts, the currently accepted ones were chosen by men. So even if you want to go back to the Greek Bible, which one? Why not others?

Well perhaps your devil god but not the One True God incarnate in Iesus Christ.

jesus said "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "judge not lest ye be judged" and here you are, hating and judging.

My point is, Jesus spoke Aramaic. No record of his words in Aramaic exists. Greek is the language of the oldest manuscripts of the New Testament, but it's still just limiting flaws. It's better to have an agreed texts from recognised scholars than to depend on what is ultimately flawed translations, and edited ones at that. There were many versions of NT texts, the currently accepted ones were chosen by men. So even if you want to go back to the Greek Bible, which one? Why not others?
I would suggest reading over several pages of the "Imagine a high school where STRAIGHT people felt left out!" thread where much of this was discussed already.

Do you deny the great Catholic dogma of
extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
This doctrine is based upon a clear misunderstanding of God. Whilst I am loath to appose the Church, I have a greater fear of apposing God!

extra deo nullus sali is the doctrine I live by. Outside of God there is no salvation. It is in complience with the Holy Spirit who teachs us right from wrong that we obey God. The Church has no right to take this from right from God and as such is blasphemy of the worst kind.

Yes, what I am saying may make other Catholics veiw me as a heritic. But it is the Church who is commiting herasy and it is this blashemy that has lead the Church down a road of unprecidented sin.

"Homosexuality is not a sin if in doing so you act as your heart directs you, for your heart is lead by the will of the Trinity through the incarne Holy Spirit of God.

Abortion is not a sin as the ex cathedra doctrine states that it is not a matter of definitve morality and is therefore out of bounds for the Church to decree its nature and remains a matter of personal morality."

These are just two of the major veiws that I take that is in direct contradication to doctrine but in complete complience with God.

When the Church apposes God, the Faithfull must appose the Church.

For the love of God Catholics, think for yourselves. God is not a God of rules, he is God of forgiveness. Stop embaressing us with hypocracy and falsehood. Join with in a glorius reformation of our Faith and purging of sin. Ask for forgiveness from those we have wronged, and their are many.

To the people of this planet I appologise for all the grevous wrong my faith has caused you, I do not expect you to forgive me or the Church but pray rather that I can forgive myself for in my devotion to the Church I must accept this under mae culpa.

jesus said "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "judge not lest ye be judged" and here you are, hating and judging.
Two quotes taken out of context and distorted. Please always post where the quote is from as subtle distortions can be discovered based on the verse.
He said much more than the warm and fuzzy liberal churches would have people believe. Especially for a hindoo like yourself.

This doctrine is based upon a clear misunderstanding of God. Whilst I am loath to appose the Church, I have a greater fear of apposing God!

extra deo nullus sali is the doctrine I live by. Outside of God there is no salvation. It is in complience with the Holy Spirit who teachs us right from wrong that we obey God. The Church has no right to take this from right from God and as such is blasphemy of the worst kind.

Yes, what I am saying may make other Catholics veiw me as a heritic. But it is the Church who is commiting herasy and it is this blashemy that has lead the Church down a road of unprecidented sin.

"Homosexuality is not a sin if in doing so you act as your heart directs you, for your heart is lead by the will of the Trinity through the incarne Holy Spirit of God.

Abortion is not a sin as the ex cathedra doctrine states that it is not a matter of definitve morality and is therefore out of bounds for the Church to decree its nature and remains a matter of personal morality."

These are just two of the major veiws that I take that is in direct contradication to doctrine but in complete complience with God.

When the Church apposes God, the Faithfull must appose the Church.

For the love of God Catholics, think for yourselves. God is not a God of rules, he is God of forgiveness. Stop embaressing us with hypocracy and falsehood. Join with in a glorius reformation of our Faith and purging of sin. Ask for forgiveness from those we have wronged, and their are many.

To the people of this planet I appologise for all the grevous wrong my faith has caused you, I do not expect you to forgive me or the Church but pray rather that I can forgive myself for in my devotion to the Church I must accept this under mae culpa.

So in short, you are a Protestant?

No, the Latin Vulgate is the only inerrant translation of the Bible from the Greek and Hebrew.

Ducky, I don't speak Latin. I have the Polari, so I varda the Polari Bible. Vardaing the Bible in Latin wouldn't teach me anything, and it's not as if I have the chance or inclination to troll on down to the Vatican and palare with the Pope.

Ducky, I don't speak Latin. I have the Polari, so I varda the Polari Bible. Vardaing the Bible in Latin wouldn't teach me anything, and it's not as if I have the chance or inclination to troll on down to the Vatican and palare with the Pope.
You don't need to speak Latin, you need to read it.
You instead continue to read your distorted protestant bible.

Two quotes taken out of context and distorted. Please always post where the quote is from as subtle distortions can be discovered based on the verse.
He said much more than the warm and fuzzy liberal churches would have people believe. Especially for a hindoo like yourself.





Hindu, you fool. If those quotes are taken out of context, then your anti-gay bs is too. You are paranoid and need to get help. You hate everything different from what you believe and that is what makes you intolerant. Also, if you can't understand Latin, then reading it is a waste of time.

So in short, you are a Protestant?No, I am Catholic. I attend Mass and practice my faith in accordance with th e Will of God and True Church Doctrine. Simply because the Preists (who are falable) commit herasy does not mean I must follow suit.

Hindu, you fool. If those quotes are taken out of context, then your anti-gay bs is too. You are paranoid and need to get help. You hate everything different from what you believe and that is what makes you intolerant. Also, if you can't understand Latin, then reading it is a waste of time.
All Christians once learned Latin. Not so in the judaized churches.
He did not even provide a chapter and verse so I must dismiss them until he backs them up.

Two quotes taken out of context and distorted. Please always post where the quote is from as subtle distortions can be discovered based on the verse.

? so what do those mean in context? put them in their original context and explain what they mean. go ahead.

He said much more than the warm and fuzzy liberal churches would have people believe. Especially for a hindoo like yourself.

i'm not a hindhu. read my earlier posts in the thread, geez.

You don't need to speak Latin, you need to read it.
You instead continue to read your distorted protestant bible.

The Polari Bible (http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/) comes from here (http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/) . I'd hazard a guess that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence aren't Protestants.

If I can't communicate in Latin, how can someone communicate with me in Latin? My Latin is not of a level that allows it to be used for the understanding of a religious text.

No, I am Catholic. I attend Mass and practice my faith in accordance with th e Will of God and True Church Doctrine. Simply because the Preists (who are falable) commit herasy does not mean I must follow suit.
You do not decide if you are Catholic or not! If you have such problems with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, there are thousands of protestant sects that will adapt to your needs. I doubt you ever attend Mass.

All Christians once learned Latin. Not so in the judaized churches.
He did not even provide a chapter and verse so I must dismiss them until he backs them up.

actually, all church doctrine was written in latin so that it would be inaccessible to the common man. they did not know the language they were being preached to, they could not read the texts. they were kept ignorant of what was being said and done.

The Polari Bible (http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/) comes from here (http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/) . I'd hazard a guess that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence aren't Protestants.

If I can't communicate in Latin, how can someone communicate with me in Latin? My Latin is not of a level that allows it to be used for the understanding of a religious text.
There is no authorized Polari translation of the Bible. The Vulgate is the most secure translation. And that second link you gave was extremely ridiculous.

Actually, Latin Mass in the Middle ages wasn't read aloud, so the language didn't matter, anyway. You just went by what the Church said.

actually, all church doctrine was written in latin so that it would be inaccessible to the common man. they did not know the language they were being preached to, they could not read the texts. they were kept ignorant of what was being said and done.
No. If they were capable of understanding, they were capable of learning Latin and many did.

All Christians once learned Latin. Not so in the judaized churches.
He did not even provide a chapter and verse so I must dismiss them until he backs them up.




"Once" is the key word. Latin is an option in my High School and I was one of only 10 kids to take it last year. This year, I am one of only 5. Also, you seem to believe you have ultimate judgement over over religious people's beliefs, over other catholics and protestants. Save that for God, who actually has credibility.

No. If they were capable of understanding, they were capable of learning Latin and many did.
only the select wealthy few. the masses were kept ignorant and illiterate.

"Once" is the key word. Latin is an option in my High School and I was one of only 10 kids to take it last year. This year, I am one of only 5. Also, you seem to believe you have ultimate judgement over over religious people's beliefs, over other catholics and protestants. Save that for God, who actually has credibility.
God's earthly representative, the Roman Pontiff has much credibility acting in God's name.

only the select wealthy few. the masses were kept ignorant and illiterate.
Untrue. People were well educated about the Faith even if they could not read Latin.

There is no authorized Polari translation of the Bible. The Vulgate is the most secure translation. And that second link you gave was extremely ridiculous.

Well, it comes from the King James Version, so it's got quite some authority. The first link is a specific page from the second. I've yet to find a Polari-speaking teacher prepared and able to teach me Latin, so the whole idea of me learning it is ridiculous, unless you think my Inglish is that good.

God's earthly representative, the Roman Pontiff has much credibility acting in God's name.

so the pope has credibility?

then why do you still deny evolution?

why do you insist that gallileo is a heretic?

the church pardoned gallileo gallilei in 1992, and they've accepted god-driven evolution. why do you deny these things that the pope, the god appointed, infallible spiritual leader of the catholics has accepted?

Actually, Latin Mass in the Middle ages wasn't read aloud, so the language didn't matter, anyway. You just went by what the Church said.
Most of the Mass is read quietly but there are parts where you should listen. You have a missal in front of you if you cannot understand Latin.
High Sung Masses are most magnificent.

You do not decide if you are Catholic or not! If you have such problems with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, there are thousands of protestant sects that will adapt to your needs. I doubt you ever attend Mass.
I most certainly do. Again freedom of conscience. I have commited no act or hold any opinion outside of ex cathedra doctrine. I attend Mass as often as possible, perform penance, pray on a regular basis and observe many Church traditions.

It is because of my obeservance of Church doctrine, God's Will and my following of the laws of God that I presume to challenge the Church to turn back towards God.

Whilst there are no doubt millions out there who may share my veiws, I want my Church to to, because they are their veiws. The Church has unfortunately been misinformed and I will execute my freedom of conscience to ensure that I do not commit herasy and stick to path of God.

Untrue. People were well educated about the Faith even if they could not read Latin.

in the middle ages? no, they were not. especially in catholic countries, where mass was conducted in latin rather than the vernacular. if you don't understand the language someone's talking to you in, you're not going to learn anything.

so the pope has credibility?

then why do you still deny evolution?

why do you insist that gallileo is a heretic?

the church pardoned gallileo gallilei in 1992, and they've accepted god-driven evolution. why do you deny these things that the pope, the god appointed, infallible spiritual leader of the catholics has accepted?
No, galileo (and his ideas) was condemned as a heretic by the Church. This is common knowledge.

God's earthly representative, the Roman Pontiff has much credibility acting in God's name.





He isn't God, he is a human who sins just like the rest of us. He is important, yes but he is human.

in the middle ages? no, they were not. especially in catholic countries, where mass was conducted in latin rather than the vernacular. if you don't understand the language someone's talking to you in, you're not going to learn anything.
Yes, there are missals to help you understand. What the priest is saying is not important but what occurs through God as a result is what must be understood.

I recommend "The Incredible Catholic Mass: An Explanation of the Catholic Mass" by Rev. Martin Von Cochem for better understanding of the Mass.

He isn't God, he is a human who sins just like the rest of us. He is important, yes but he is human.
He is human but when he speaks ex cathedra he is infallible.
In addition he is guided by the Apostolic Spirit as successor to Peter.

? so what do those mean in context? put them in their original context and explain what they mean. go ahead.



come on, tell me what "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "judge not lest ye be judged" mean in context.

or did i get them right so you want to ignore me?

Most of the Mass is read quietly but there are parts where you should listen. You have a missal in front of you if you cannot understand Latin.
High Sung Masses are most magnificent.

I said during the Middle Ages. There were no nice, mass produced texts for everyone, there was just one Bible for the priest. The priest, with his back to the congregation, read silently, bells ringing intermittently. This had no instructional value and was the closest the commoners got to the Bible. Ergo, they were not in a position to consult the Bible, regardless of how good their Latin was, and they learnt Medieval Latin, not Vulgar Latin.

TT, what do you think of African Americans being Christians? I know this is not exactly on topic but I need to know. And Dakini, he's ignoring you because you got them right.

come on, tell me what "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "judge not lest ye be judged" mean in context.

or did i get them right so you want to ignore me?

His argument is that since you haven't given book, chapter and verse, we can't determine context. Find the book, chapter and verse and I'll put up the Polari translation of it.

I said during the Middle Ages. There were no nice, mass produced texts for everyone, there was just one Bible for the priest. The priest, with his back to the congregation, read silently, bells ringing intermittently. This had no instructional value and was the closest the commoners got to the Bible. Ergo, they were not in a position to consult the Bible, regardless of how good their Latin was, and they learnt Medieval Latin, not Vulgar Latin.
Yes the Catholic priest has the only Bible as they were not able to be mass-produced at the time and he does indeed face ad orientam (toward the east) in respect to Christ, often with his back to the people. Facing this direction confirms that he is leading the congregation before God, not simply sharing a "communion meal" as the protestants had proposed. His face is really unimportant to the Sacrifice of the Mass.
The Middle Ages were a time of many saved souls. Glorious times indeed, destroyed by the modernists.

No, the Latin Vulgate is the only inerrant translation of the Bible from the Greek and Hebrew.
I am a big fan of Latin and the Vulgate, but there cannot be an inerrant translation of anything; from language to language there are almost never exact equivalents. And considering that there are numerous greek words with complex and powerful meanings which cannot be well expressed in the romance languages; that is why greek could be considered a philosophical langage and Latin a scientific language. if i am incorrect, I wish to be informed thus.

Yes the Catholic priest has the only Bible as they were not able to be mass-produced at the time and he does indeed face ad orientam (toward the east) in respect to Christ, often with his back to the people. Facing this direction confirms that he is leading the congregation before God, not simply sharing a "communion meal" as the protestants had proposed. His face is really unimportant to the Sacrifice of the Mass.
The Middle Ages were a time of many saved souls. Glorious times indeed, destroyed by the modernists.



Oh yes and those wonderful crusades to end Islam and the fact that the Protestant Reformantion began then shows you the state that the church (catholic) was in.

No, galileo (and his ideas) was condemned as a heretic by the Church. This is common knowledge.

and he was exhonerated by the pope in 1992. that's a full 12 years ago, i'm surprised you haven't got the news.

http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Issues/GalileoAffair.html

Contrary to reports in The New York Times and other conduits of misinformation about the Church, the Holy See was not on this occasion finally throwing in the towel and admitting that the earth revolves around the sun. That particular debate, so far as the Church was concerned, had been closed since at least 1741 when Benedict XIV bid the Holy Office grant an imprimatur to the first edition of the Complete Works of Galileo.

you have to go back to 1741 for the church to be on about the sun still going around the earth.

and:

Following the guidelines of the Second Vatican Council, he(Jean Paul II) wished to make clear that science has a legitimate freedom in its own sphere and that this freedom was unduly violated by Church authorities in the case of Galileo.


and from the a science news source: http://astrology.about.com/library/weekly/aa022200a.htm

#
In 1979 Pope John Paul II expressed a desire that the Pontifical Academy of Sciences formally conduct an in-depth study of the church's case against Galileo. A commission of scholars convened, and they presented their report to the Pope on October 31, 1992. The Roman Catholic Church then finally removed the verdict of heresy against Galileo.

bolding mine.

the catholic church has not condemned galileo for a full 12 years, get with the times, man.

His argument is that since you haven't given book, chapter and verse, we can't determine context. Find the book, chapter and verse and I'll put up the Polari translation of it.

ugh so much effort... give me a bit.

Where do Catholics get their biblical basis for: prayers for the dead, making the sign of the cross, worship of saints and angels, Mass, worship of Mary, priests dressing differently than laypeople, extreme unction, the doctrine of purgatory, worship services in latin, prayers directed to Mary, Boniface III made the first Pope, kissing the Pope's feet, worshipping of holy relics and images, use of holy water, canonization of dead saints, fasting on fridays and during Lent, celibacy of the priesthood, prayer beads, the Inquisition, sale of indulgences, transubstantiation, adoration of the wafer (Host), bible forbidden to laypeople, cup forbidden to people at communion, doctrine of purgatory decreed, doctrine of seven sacraments, the Ave Maria approved, Jesuit order, tradition granted equal authority with the Bible, Apocryphal books put into Bible, Syllabus of Errors proclaimed, Infallibility of the Pope, public schools condemmed, Assumption of the Virgin Mary, and last but not least Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church.
The Irony of the situation is that rome claims that it is always the same. I apoligize if this offends any catholics, that is not and will not be my intention(s) I just wanted to know where the Bible has the basis for these practices which have occured from 300AD to 1965AD

"love thy neighbour..." is in a couple places

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

i'll look up the whole judging thing... i know there's the whole don't take the splinter out of your brother's eye until you have removed the log from your own, thing.

"Once" is the key word. Latin is an option in my High School and I was one of only 10 kids to take it last year. This year, I am one of only 5. Also, you seem to believe you have ultimate judgement over over religious people's beliefs, over other catholics and protestants. Save that for God, who actually has credibility.
Speaking on the language, I love Latin, but it is too greatly ignored. I attend a Catholic high school, and I thought it was almost insane that Latin is not taught, but then again, we are a very small school being in a city with only 2% of the population, maybe 10000 people being catholic. I had to teach my self Latin, but it is worth it; it helps me understand the beautiful chants we sing in choir.

Oh yes and those wonderful crusades to end Islam and the fact that the Protestant Reformantion began then shows you the state that the church (catholic) was in.
To end "islam?"

Christians were being brutalized by the mohammadan savages in their own Holy Land. They would've conquered Europe and forced their vile religion on it like they did elsewhere if not for the valiant defenders of the Holy Land during the Crusades. It's about ripe for an Eleventh Crusade about now I think.

Where do Catholics get their biblical basis for: prayers for the dead, making the sign of the cross, worship of saints and angels, Mass, worship of Mary, priests dressing differently than laypeople, extreme unction, the doctrine of purgatory, worship services in latin, prayers directed to Mary, Boniface III made the first Pope, kissing the Pope's feet, worshipping of holy relics and images, use of holy water, canonization of dead saints, fasting on fridays and during Lent, celibacy of the priesthood, prayer beads, the Inquisition, sale of indulgences, transubstantiation, adoration of the wafer (Host), bible forbidden to laypeople, cup forbidden to people at communion, doctrine of purgatory decreed, doctrine of seven sacraments, the Ave Maria approved, Jesuit order, tradition granted equal authority with the Bible, Apocryphal books put into Bible, Syllabus of Errors proclaimed, Infallibility of the Pope, public schools condemmed, Assumption of the Virgin Mary, and last but not least Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church.
The Irony of the situation is that rome claims that it is always the same. I apoligize if this offends any catholics, that is not and will not be my intention(s) I just wanted to know where the Bible has the basis for these practices which have occured from 300AD to 1965AD


I cannot answer so many confusing points all squeezed together. Please gather your thoughts and ask something more reasonable where we can begin to cover such topics.

To end "islam?"

Christians were being brutalized by the mohammadan savages in their own Holy Land. They would've conquered Europe and forced their vile religion on it like they did elsewhere if not for the valiant defenders of the Holy Land during the Crusades. It's about ripe for an Eleventh Crusade about now I think.




Believe me, Christians have done terrible things to muslims, among other groups (aboriginals to name a big one). Still what do you think about african americans being christians?

To end "islam?"

Christians were being brutalized by the mohammadan savages in their own Holy Land. They would've conquered Europe and forced their vile religion on it like they did elsewhere if not for the valiant defenders of the Holy Land during the Crusades. It's about ripe for an Eleventh Crusade about now I think.
There was no brutalization of pilgrims. Infact Muslims were quite kind to Christians in the Holy Land. The worst attrocities from that time come from the Christian "liberators". Inside Jerusalem itself Christians, Muslims and Jews lived in relative harmony.

And let's not forget that herasy of "Pope" Ivan who ascended to the throne and ended the equality between the Bishops and contested the power of th e Bishop of Constantinopolis.

TT's judgement is too clouded in bias to admit the many accusations we bring against him for the unrealistic and untrue things he says but for the hell of it, lets keep trying. :)

judge not... was mathew 7:1 also, luke 6:37

Believe me, Christians have done terrible things to muslims, among other groups (aboriginals to name a big one). Still what do you think about african americans being christians?
The negro can be a Christian. From any perspective, he belongs in Africa, his fatherland. When negroes become Christians we usually end up with messes like this anyway :


http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0305e.jpg

or http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0305v.jpg

There was no brutalization of pilgrims. Infact Muslims were quite kind to Christians in the Holy Land. The worst attrocities from that time come from the Christian "liberators". Inside Jerusalem itself Christians, Muslims and Jews lived in relative harmony.

And let's not forget that herasy of "Pope" Ivan who ascended to the throne and ended the equality between the Bishops and contested the power of th e Bishop of Constantinopolis.
Lies of a Mohammadan Jihadist...
Amazing what propaganda is believed today.

and he was exhonerated by the pope in 1992. that's a full 12 years ago, i'm surprised you haven't got the news.

http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Issues/GalileoAffair.html



you have to go back to 1741 for the church to be on about the sun still going around the earth.

and:




and from the a science news source: http://astrology.about.com/library/weekly/aa022200a.htm



bolding mine.

the catholic church has not condemned galileo for a full 12 years, get with the times, man.


Umm... no, Galileo was never "exhonerated by the pope" as you claim he was.
He died a heretic.

Where do Catholics get their biblical basis for: prayers for the dead, making the sign of the cross, worship of saints and angels, Mass, worship of Mary, priests dressing differently than laypeople, extreme unction, the doctrine of purgatory, worship services in latin, prayers directed to Mary, Boniface III made the first Pope, kissing the Pope's feet, worshipping of holy relics and images, use of holy water, canonization of dead saints, fasting on fridays and during Lent, celibacy of the priesthood, prayer beads, the Inquisition, sale of indulgences, transubstantiation, adoration of the wafer (Host), bible forbidden to laypeople, cup forbidden to people at communion, doctrine of purgatory decreed, doctrine of seven sacraments, the Ave Maria approved, Jesuit order, tradition granted equal authority with the Bible, Apocryphal books put into Bible, Syllabus of Errors proclaimed, Infallibility of the Pope, public schools condemmed, Assumption of the Virgin Mary, and last but not least Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church.
The Irony of the situation is that rome claims that it is always the same. I apoligize if this offends any catholics, that is not and will not be my intention(s) I just wanted to know where the Bible has the basis for these practices which have occured from 300AD to 1965AD

Transubstantiation is a very important concept. The idea of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus goes back to the last supper. Jesus said "This is my body"
The host is the body of Christ after the consecration.
The Jesuits were formed only as a response to the reformation.

The negro can be a Christian. From any perspective, he belongs in Africa, his fatherland. When negroes become Christians we usually end up with messes like this anyway :


http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0305e.jpg

or http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0305v.jpg

well, you shouldn't have forced them to be baptized when you enslaved them.

Umm... no, Galileo was never "exhonerated by the pope" as you claim he was.
He died a heretic.

and he was exhonerated after his death, if you actually read what i posted and followed the links, you would know that.

well, you shouldn't have forced them to be baptized when you enslaved them.
I never enslaved them. 17th century protestants began the process of bringing them to America due to their protestant selfishness and greed.

The negro can be a Christian. From any perspective, he belongs in Africa, his fatherland. When negroes become Christians we usually end up with messes like this anyway :


http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0305e.jpg

or http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0305v.jpg




While the perfect white christians never start messes, such as the KKK. As for propaganada, you need to get into the real world and open your eyes. Christians are by far the worst for treating people of other religions poorly. Certain Muslims treat their own people poorly, but certain Christians do it on an international stage. This no propaganda, this is the REAL world.

and he was exhonerated after his death, if you actually read what i posted and followed the links, you would know that.
False.

Lies of a Mohammadan Jihadist...
Amazing what propaganda is believed today.

amazing what the records of history tell us.

While the perfect white christians never start messes, such as the KKK. As for propaganada, you need to get into the real world and open your eyes. Christians are by far the worst for treating people of other religions. Certain Muslims treat there own people poorly, but certain Christians do it on an international stage. This no propaganda, this is the REAL world.
KKK is an anti-Catholic protestant group. Christians have never mistreated any others, you are stating very general and vague ideas.

False.

umm... true. one of the links i posted was a catholic one. i don't think they'd be saying the pope exhonerated galileo if he didn't.

amazing what the records of history tell us.
Which records would they be?

umm... true. one of the links i posted was a catholic one. i don't think they'd be saying the pope exhonerated galileo if he didn't.
No, that's not true. You post ridiculous links to back up your absurd claims.

Which records would they be?

archeological records, written historical records from both sides et c.

KKK is an anti-Catholic protestant group. Christians have never mistreated any others, you are stating very general and vague ideas.


Wow hmmm the crusades, the spanish inquistion, the burning of "witchs"

archeological records, written historical records from both sides et c.
Specifics?

KKK is an anti-Catholic protestant group. Christians have never mistreated any others, you are stating very general and vague ideas.





Of course not, we just destroyed central american tribes along with the south american ones and forced our religion upon them. Yes, Spain (Catholic at the time or mostly) did this and that cannot be denied. The Protestants handled north america and africa.

No, that's not true. You post ridiculous links to back up your absurd claims.

it's quite true. and i find it sad that a non-catholic, non-christian knows this and you don't.

hell, you don't even accept that the earth goes around the sun do you? that was accepted by the catholic church in 1741, it wasn't even deemed heresey.

galileo only pissed off the church in his presentation of his observations, not the observations themselves.

Wow hmmm the crusades, the spanish inquistion, the burning of "witchs"
You gave an extremely ignorant response. While I will debate errors, jumping in the middle of a discussion and giving the incorrect stereotypical response will not be tolerated. Put simply:
The Crusades were valiant wars for Christ to help the persecuted Christians in the Holy Land. The Spanish Inquisition was a way to eliminate heresy and unite Spain as well. The burning of witches occurred primarily in 17th and 18th century America by protestants. This is typical protestantism.

KKK is an anti-Catholic protestant group. Christians have never mistreated any others, you are stating very general and vague ideas.

witch trials
inquisition
giving small pox infected blankets to native americans
teaching natives to scalp each other, then gunning them down when they use the same tactic on white people
wiping out entire civilizations
destroying languages, ancient traditions
declaring australian aboriginees sub-human, killing them and selling their skulls as souveniers
slavery
the oppression of women for the past 2000 years

do you really want me to go on?

Americanist Liberalism at work in Europe:


"Catholic" Spain declares plans for apostasy!
Spanish Apostasy (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/25/wspain25.xml)

Sweden admits Mohammadans control its cities:
Swedish Multicult Mess (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003131.php)

Good for Denmark, bad for Sweden:
Danish Multiculturalists Escape to Sweden (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/09/aloveas_refugee.php)

Austrians escape liberal homosexual-infested church:
Austrians Escape Homosexual Church (http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1122942004)

Swedish pastor sent to prison for offending homosexuals:
"Free" Europe Silences Opposition Yet Again (http://www.eni.ch/highlights/news.shtml?2004/06)

"France and the Holy See are joined in the fight for a world which places Man at the centre of every enterprise."
Chirac and John Paul Are At It Again (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/14/france.pope/index.html)

Holland is truly a cesspit in more ways than one nowadays:
Hellish Holland (http://www.sspx.ca/Angelus/2004_FebMar/Hellish_Holland.htm)

Ireland no longer Catholic:
Church Faces Crisis in Ireland (http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/02/15/story730395567.asp)

Nor Belgium:
Apostasy in Brussels (http://www.novusordowatch.org/story071804.htm)

Nor Italy:
Satanism on Rise in Italy (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=1554)

Things aren't much better in the U.K.:
"Catholic Priests Decline, More Liberalism At Work (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/08/nrc08.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/08/ixhome.html)

For the most part, free will is far more important than mere religion.
If religion was so great, why are the most religious nations the worst off ?

it's quite true. and i find it sad that a non-catholic, non-christian knows this and you don't.

hell, you don't even accept that the earth goes around the sun do you? that was accepted by the catholic church in 1741, it wasn't even deemed heresey.

galileo only pissed off the church in his presentation of his observations, not the observations themselves.
No, the earth is the center of the universe. The heliocentric system is based on heresy, much like the hypothesis of evolution.

The Spanish Inquisition was a way to eliminate heresy and unite Spain as well.

which meant torture, execution, ostracism et c. yeah, that's really nice and treating people well.

The burning of witches occurred primarily in 17th and 18th century America by protestants. This is typical protestantism.

actually, witches were burnt primarily in europe. in both catholic and protestant countries. since both sects are christian, christians burnt innocent women at the stake liberally.

witch trials- protestant
inquisition-just
giving small pox infected blankets to native americans- false
teaching natives to scalp each other, then gunning them down when they use-false
wiping out entire civilizations- false
destroying languages, ancient traditions- false
declaring australian aboriginees sub-human, killing them and selling their skulls as souveniers- false
slavery- false
the oppression of women for the past 2000 years- false

No, the earth is the center of the universe. The heliocentric system is based on heresy, much like the hypothesis of evolution.

no, the catholic church has accepted that the earth orbits the sun since 1741.

if the earth was stationary, then how do you explain the parallax?
the phases of venus?
the difference in size of mars?
how many epicycles are really necessary to describe the motion of the planets accurately?

and if you really want, i can look up the pope's acceptance of evolution...

and if you still insist on denying that, then how do you explain the fossils of creatures that don't exist anymore everywhere?

which meant torture, execution, ostracism et c. yeah, that's really nice and treating people well.



actually, witches were burnt primarily in europe. in both catholic and protestant countries. since both sects are christian, christians burnt innocent women at the stake liberally.
You are quite adapt at making your lies seem factual, hindoo.
The with-burning is protestant and originated in protestant Europe.
Christian nations did not endorse this.

witch trials- protestant
inquisition-just
giving small pox infected blankets to native americans- false
teaching natives to scalp each other, then gunning them down when they use-false
wiping out entire civilizations- false
destroying languages, ancient traditions- false
declaring australian aboriginees sub-human, killing them and selling their skulls as souveniers- false
slavery- false
the oppression of women for the past 2000 years- false


hahahahashahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

you really are an idiot, or at least you play one on the boards.

i've had enough of this. a wise person once asked "when you see an ass braying in the field, do you join it?" i think i'll leave you to bray on your own.

As promised, in Polari:

Leviticus 19:18 Nanti do the rights, nor bear any grudge against the chavvies of thy homies and palones, but thou shalt love thy homie ajax as thyself: I am the Duchess.

Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that letteth with you shall be unto you as oney born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Duchess your Gloria.

Matilda 7:12 Therefore all fakements whatsoever ye would that homies should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matilda 19:16 And, varda, oney came and cackled unto him, bona Master, what bona fakement shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he cackled unto him, Why callest thou me bona? there is nanti bona but oney, that is, Gloria: but if thou wilt enter into life, lell the butch lavs.
18 He cackleth unto him, Which? Josie cackled, Thou shalt do no murder, nanti commit adultery, nanti sharper, nanti bear false varda-ing fakement,
19 Honour thy Auntie and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy homie ajax as thyself.

Matilda 22:35 Then oney of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and cackling,
36 Master, which is the dowry butch lav in the law?
37 Josie cackled unto him, Thou shalt love the Duchess thy Gloria with all thy thumping cheat, and with all thy nishta lucoddy, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the una and dowry butch lav.
39 And the dewey is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy homie ajax as thyself.
40 On these dewey butch lavs hang all the law and the prophets.

Marcia 12:28 And oney of the betty bracelets came, and having aunt nelled them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the una butch lav of all?
29 And Josie answered him, The una of all the butch lavs is, aunt nell, O Israel; The Duchess our Gloria is oney Duchess:
30 And thou shalt love the Duchess thy Gloria with all thy thumping cheat, and with all thy nishta lucoddy, and with all thy mind, and with all thy butchness: this is the una butch lav.
31 And the dewey is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy homie ajax as thyself. There is nanti other butch lav dowrier than these.
32 And the scribe cackled unto him, Well, Master, thou hast cackled the truth: for there is oney Gloria; and there is nanti other but he:
33 And to love him with all the thumping cheat, and with all the understanding, and with all the nishta lucoddy, and with all the butchness, and to love his homie ajax as himself, is more than all whole burnt parkerings and parkers.
34 And when Josie vardad that he answered discreetly, he cackled unto him, Thou art not nishter ajax the kingdom of Gloria. And no homie after that durst ask him any question.

Lucille 6:31 And as ye would that homies should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Lucille 10:25 And, varda, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, cackling, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He cackled unto him, What is screeved in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering cackled, Thou shalt love the Duchess thy Gloria with all thy thumping cheat, and with all thy nishta lucoddy, and with all thy butchness, and with all thy mind; and thy homie ajax as thyself.
28 And he cackled unto him, Thou hast answered sweet: this do, and thou shalt live.

Romans 13:8 Owe no homie any fakement, but to love oney another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, nanti commit adultery, nanti ferricadoza, nanti sharper, nanti bear false varda-ing fakement, nanti ogle; and if there be any other butch lav, it is briefly comprehended in this cackling, namely, Thou shalt love thy homie ajax as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his homie ajax: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in oney lavs, even in this; Thou shalt love thy homie ajax as thyself.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the glossy, Thou shalt love thy homie ajax as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit kertever, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

You are quite adapt at making your lies seem factual, hindoo.

two last things.

1. it's spelled hindhu.

2. i'm an agnostic humanist, not a hindhu.

two last things.

1. it's spelled hindhu.
No, its not.

2. i'm an agnostic humanist, not a hindhu.
Agnostic humanist, atheist, jew, mahometan, hindoo, buddhist...
All semantics as they refer to the same heretic.

No, the earth is the center of the universe. The heliocentric system is based on heresy, much like the hypothesis of evolution. Are you saying that the idea of heliocentricity is absurd? If so, how can you say that? I find it difficult to believe that someone could not believe that there is a force called gravity which is allowing our cradle of life to fling around the sun instead of fly ing off into space. The physics of this have been observed, I am afraid that I cannot cite anything, but science cannot contradict the Eternal Law.

Transubstantiation is a very important concept. The idea of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus goes back to the last supper. Jesus said "This is my body"
The host is the body of Christ after the consecration.
The Jesuits were formed only as a response to the reformation.
Matthew 26:17-30 has the account of The Last Supper, but I don't see any evidence that says the Bread and the Wine literally become the flesh and blood of Christ, which is the doctrine of Transubstantiation. The way I read it It sounds like Christ gave them a way to remember him by. Also what biblical basis is there for the Pope? I don't remember seeing where it says that there should be a basis for the Pope, I must have missed it.

No, the earth is the center of the universe. The heliocentric system is based on heresy, much like the hypothesis of evolution.





YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THE SUN IS THE CENTRE OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM AND THE EARTH IS THE CENTRE OF NOTHING!!!!!!! Also, you deny historical evidence that is known as fact. The French Catholics caused entire tribes to vanish in eastern canada and gave small pox to the rest. They forced catholocism on young aboriginal children and some priest were even burned alive in remote areas because the aboriginals had enough of the bullshit. Unfortunatly, the French Army eventually took complete control of most villages and totally destroyed their way of life.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THE SUN IS THE CENTRE OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM AND THE EARTH IS THE CENTRE OF NOTHING!!!!!!! Also, you deny historical evidence that is known as fact. The French Catholics caused entire tribes to vanish in eastern canada and gave small pox to the rest. They forced catholocism on young aboriginal children and some priest were even burned alive in remote areas because the aboriginals had enough of the bullshit. Unfortunatly, the French Army enetually took complete control of most villages and totally destroyed their way of life.
You show great emotion but little on the factual side, heathen.

No, the earth is the center of the universe. The heliocentric system is based on heresy, much like the hypothesis of evolution.

Ahh, now I see!

http://www.slightlywarped.com/forumpictures/trolls/trolls.jpg

Ahh, now I see!

http://www.slightlywarped.com/forumpictures/trolls/trolls.jpg
And you contributed what to this thread?

You are not knowledgeable on the practices and traditions of Christianity so I am uncertain as to why you continue to rant here.

You show great emotion but little on the factual side, heathen.




Wow, historians and scientists have no factual evidence but some anti gay, anti jew, anti everything anti black catholic is an encyclopedia of knowledge. Also, you are not to say who is and who isn't a christian. You judge too much for someone who is a sinful human. I can't handle this ignorance and this lack of knowledge of the world of physics and history. You are an example of why people think christianity is for those locked int he past with nothing relevant towards the future. You celebrate the crusades whcih cost thousands of lives on both sides and then said it was a great time of people being saved (and then sent off to death in the middle east by the pope).

No, its not.

one more and then i'm through:

Hin·du ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hnd)
adj.

1. Of or relating to Hinduism.
2. Of or relating to the Hindus and their culture.


n.

1. An adherent of Hinduism.
2. A native of India, especially northern India.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hindu

hindoo

\Hin"doo\, Hindu \Hin"du\ (?; 277), n.; pl. Hindoosor Hindus. [Per. Hind[=u], fr. Hind, Hind[=u]st[=a]n, India. Cf. Indian.] A native inhabitant of Hindostan. As an ethnical term it is confined to the Dravidian and Aryan races.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hindoo

hindhu = term for a member of the religion hinduism.
hindoo = archaic term for an inhabitant of hindostan... which no longer exists.

it is spelled hindu. stop being an idiot.

Wow, historians and scientists have no factual evidence but some anti gay, anti jew, anti everything anti black catholic is an encyclopedia of knowledge. Also, you are not to say who is and who isn't a christian. You judge too much for someone who is a sinful human. I can't handle this ignorance and this lack of knowledge of the world of physics and history. You are an example of why people think christianity is for those locked int he past with nothing relevant towards the future. You celebrate the crusades whcih cost thousands of lives on both sides and then said it was a great time of people being saved 9and then sent off to death in the middle east by the pope).
Earthly lives are not what matters...
What matters is that they earn the reward of Heaven through the Christ and His Church.

one more and then i'm through:



http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hindu



http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hindoo

hindhu = term for a member of the religion hinduism.
hindoo = archaic term for an inhabitant of hindostan... which no longer exists.

it is spelled hindu. stop being an idiot.

first thing you see from your link:

Hin·doo
n. & adj. Archaic

Variant of Hindu.

first thing you see from your link:

Hin·doo
n. & adj. Archaic

Variant of Hindu.

if a word is archaic, that means it's obsolete and not used anymore. kept there as a historical refrence.

and i'm through braying with you, ass.

All those in favour of giving up on this dinosaur of religion, say "I". "I".

if a word is archaic, that means it's obsolete and not used anymore. kept there as a historical refrence.

and i'm through braying with you, ass.
No, that it means it hasn't passed the liberalization necessary to be politically correct.

Shouldn't the NEW Testament be written in Greek, and the Old in Hebrew?

Also, in regards to this gem:

Agnostic humanist, atheist, jew, mahometan, hindoo, buddhist...
All semantics as they refer to the same heretic.

No, obviously they refer to DIFFERENT "heretics", moron.

Shouldn't the NEW Testament be written in Greek, and the Old in Hebrew?

Also, in regards to this gem:



No, obviously they refer to DIFFERENT "heretics", moron.
They're different names for the same heretic. That is what I said.

This is simply absured. This man obviously thinsk he's smarter than most of the human race (prideful) and seems to be without sin for he casts so much judgement towards others. He claims the perfection and justification for horrible events and seems to portray anyone who isn't a clone of him mentally has a satanist, a heathen, pagan, hindu (for the last time its a dead term (hindoo) or can't you read that because it's not in latin?), a muslim, portestant, communist, liberal, jew, fool or ignorant. For someone who thinks like this, they are best ignored so they realize how foolish their comments are and re-evaluate their views. I am now leaving for the night.

This is simply absured. This man obviously thinsk he's smarter than most of the human race (prideful) and seems to be without sin for he casts so much judgement towards others. He claims the perfection and justification for horrible events and seems to portray anyone who isn't a clone of him mentally has a satanist, a heathen, pagan, hindu (for the last time its a dead term (hindoo) or can't you read that because it's not in latin?), a muslim, portestant, communist, liberal, jew, fool or ignorant. For someone who thinks like this, they are best ignored so they realize how foolish their comments are and re-evaluate their views. I am now leaving for the night.
Haven't you been leaving for quite some time now?

They're different names for the same heretic. That is what I said.

And that makes you an idiot. That's like saying a Catholic is the same thing as a mushroom because they're both not dogs.

And that makes you an idiot. That's like saying a Catholic is the same thing as a mushroom because they're both not dogs.
Anything outside the Catholic Church is a heretic. What they call themselves is irrelevent.

The Crusades were valiant wars for Christ to help the persecuted Christians in the Holy Land.

And why, pray tell, did these "valiant wars for Christ" entail killing thousands of Jews living in the Holy Land? Not to mention several more thousand in the Rhineland. (See http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history_community/Medieval/TheStory6321666/Christendom/Crusades.htm) Please, TT, be so kind as to connect the dots for this poor heretic: why did Rhineland Jews have to die in order to help "persecuted Christians" in the MIDDLE EAST?

And that "Catholics never mistreated any others" is pure horse-shit. What about the Catholic persecution of the Huguenots? Quakers? Jews? Anabaptists?

Anything outside the Catholic Church is a heretic. What they call themselves is irrelevent.

The fact that YOU regard them all as heretics does not change the fact that they are not the same. Any more than a Catholic is a mushroom.

And why, pray tell, did these "valiant wars for Christ" entail killing thousands of Jews living in the Holy Land? Not to mention several more thousand in the Rhineland. (See http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history_community/Medieval/TheStory6321666/Christendom/Crusades.htm) Please, TT, be so kind as to connect the dots for this poor heretic: why did Rhineland Jews have to die in order to help "persecuted Christians" in the MIDDLE EAST?
The jews supported the mohammadans and were funding them because of their hatred for the Christians.
That highly biased link is a typical "those poor jews" website and has greatly overestimated the situation.

The jews supported the mohammadans and were funding them because of their hatred for the Christians.

Prove it. Cite a source.

That highly biased link is a typical "those poor jews" website and has greatly overestimated the situation.

See above.

you know what's nice?

This:

Tenete Traditiones
This message is hidden because Tenete Traditiones is on your ignore list.

you know what's nice?

This:

Tenete Traditiones
This message is hidden because Tenete Traditiones is on your ignore list.

how do you add people to an ignore list?

The Bible consists of several books from several sources originally in several languages, and which have been translated, and or-mistranslated on many occassions by differeing groups or individuals.

Which books should or should not be in the Bible has equally been the subject of often bitter debate.

Quite simply, there is no "right" or "wrong" language.

If one chooses to believe that there is a God, and that the Bible is His (or Her) book (despite its inherent inconsistencies) then one must surely concede that God (if such a being exists) would not really care which language was used.

how do you add people to an ignore list?

Go to their profile-there should be an option for it.

tell that to the protestants and catholics. maybe they'll stop calling each other heretics and condemning eachother to hell...

I'm Catholic, I've never read in Church doctrine or been told that Protestants are going to Hell. Vatican II changed a lot of things. I myself (personally as well) don't think Protestants are heretics and I certainly don't think they are going to Hell.

Anything outside the Catholic Church is a heretic. What they call themselves is irrelevent.

Ugh!! Tenete Traditions, you get on all these threads about Catholicism and spew hate. Please quit making Catholicism & Catholics look like judgmental, hateful bigots. I want to assure Protestants (and other religions as well) on this thread it is NOT the nature of the Church!

Ugh!! Tenete Traditions, you get on all these threads about Catholicism and spew hate. Please quit making Catholicism & Catholics look like judgmental, hateful bigots. I want to assure Protestants (and other religions as well) on this thread it is NOT the nature of the Church!

I'm with you, man. When it comes down to it, the literal Church itself is really the LAST reason you'd want to be Catholic!

"So, Dan, why are you Jewish?"
"Well, it's a mix between old-world wisdom and my family's history. So why are you Catholic?"
"Well, I really really like large-scale beauracracy with hundreds of years of corruption. Oh yeah, and I hate gay people and abortions."

Ugh!! Tenete Traditions, you get on all these threads about Catholicism and spew hate. Please quit making Catholicism & Catholics look like judgmental, hateful bigots. I want to assure Protestants (and other religions as well) on this thread it is NOT the nature of the Church!
You do not define Catholicism and who is or is not a Catholic. It is based on whether you submit to Catholic dogma, which you obviously do not, making you a protestant.

I'm Catholic, I've never read in Church doctrine or been told that Protestants are going to Hell. Vatican II changed a lot of things. I myself (personally as well) don't think Protestants are heretics and I certainly don't think they are going to Hell.

well, i know there are lots of catholics who don't believe protestants are going to hell and i know there are many protestants who don't believe catholics are going to hell...

but then you have idiots like tenete traditiones... and there are some protestants like him, but you know, on the other side of things... who say that everyone but them is going to hell.

Where do Catholics get their biblical basis for: prayers for the dead, making the sign of the cross, worship of saints and angels, Mass, worship of Mary, priests dressing differently than laypeople, extreme unction, the doctrine of purgatory, worship services in latin, prayers directed to Mary, Boniface III made the first Pope, kissing the Pope's feet, worshipping of holy relics and images, use of holy water, canonization of dead saints, fasting on fridays and during Lent, celibacy of the priesthood, prayer beads, the Inquisition, sale of indulgences, transubstantiation, adoration of the wafer (Host), bible forbidden to laypeople, cup forbidden to people at communion, doctrine of purgatory decreed, doctrine of seven sacraments, the Ave Maria approved, Jesuit order, tradition granted equal authority with the Bible, Apocryphal books put into Bible, Syllabus of Errors proclaimed, Infallibility of the Pope, public schools condemmed, Assumption of the Virgin Mary, and last but not least Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church.
The Irony of the situation is that rome claims that it is always the same. I apoligize if this offends any catholics, that is not and will not be my intention(s) I just wanted to know where the Bible has the basis for these practices which have occured from 300AD to 1965AD
What is the Biblical basis for saying "For the Kingdom, the power, and the glory are Yours, now and forever"?

Oh, for apocryphal books, there is no biblical basis. When the Jews decided to only allow books written in the Holy Land andwritten in Hebrew and Aramaic, that was their choice which ruled out some historical books written in Alexandria etc. even though they were areas with high percentages of the people being Jews. What Biblical basis can be used for putting books into the Bible?

Matthew 26:17-30 has the account of The Last Supper, but I don't see any evidence that says the Bread and the Wine literally become the flesh and blood of Christ, which is the doctrine of Transubstantiation. The way I read it It sounds like Christ gave them a way to remember him by. Also what biblical basis is there for the Pope? I don't remember seeing where it says that there should be a basis for the Pope, I must have missed it.
For Transubstatiation:
Jn 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
For the authority of the pope:
Mt 16:18
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it."
There are some examples that seem to say often Peter and the disciples as if Peter seemed important. Now where the bishop of Rome comes in, well, many traditions in Apocraphyl(my spelling is messed up) books suggest Peter went to Rome. In fact, under St. Peter's in Rome, the bones of an old Jewish man were found in a tomb dedicated to St. Peter.

You do not define Catholicism and who is or is not a Catholic. It is based on whether you submit to Catholic dogma, which you obviously do not, making you a protestant.

John Paul II will be amused to hear he's a Protestant.

Anything outside the Catholic Church is a heretic. What they call themselves is irrelevent.
TT, I'm really quite concerned by the things that you're saying. I understand that you are a Catholic who believes that only the Church of Rome is the true Church, and because I am a Protestant Christian, you may choose to simply disregard my comments, but here goes.
Do you believe that you are showing love to those you disagree with, here on the NationStates general forum?
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may show yourselves to be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." (Matthew 5:43-45)
"Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; having a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behaviour in Christ will be put to shame." (1 Peter 3:15-16)
Can you stand before God, and honestly believe that you have sought to carry out these two teachings, one of Jesus, your Saviour and your God (and my Saviour and my God as well, whatever you may believe) and the other of Peter, the Rock on whom Jesus built His church. Peter got things wrong (see Mark 8:32-33), and even abandoned Jesus after specifically promising not to (recorded in all the Gospels), but he learned humility, and how to admit when he was wrong (Acts 10:9-29).
I'm praying for you, brother.

TT, I'm really quite concerned by the things that you're saying. I understand that you are a Catholic who believes that only the Church of Rome is the true Church, and because I am a Protestant Christian, you may choose to simply disregard my comments, but here goes.
Do you believe that you are showing love to those you disagree with, here on the NationStates general forum?
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may show yourselves to be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." (Matthew 5:43-45)
"Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; having a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behaviour in Christ will be put to shame." (1 Peter 3:15-16)
Can you stand before God, and honestly believe that you have sought to carry out these two teachings, one of Jesus, your Saviour and your God (and my Saviour and my God as well, whatever you may believe) and the other of Peter, the Rock on whom Jesus built His church. Peter got things wrong (see Mark 8:32-33), and even abandoned Jesus after specifically promising not to (recorded in all the Gospels), but he learned humility, and how to admit when he was wrong (Acts 10:9-29).
I'm praying for you, brother.

How do those verses have any bearing on what I have been saying?

Lies of a Mohammadan Jihadist...
Amazing what propaganda is believed today.
Actually eye witness accounts by reputable Catholic Crusaders.

How do those verses have any bearing on what I have been saying?
I don't believe you show love for your enemies in your posts, and I see no gentleness in the way you stand up for your beliefs. Nor do you show (in my opinion) any sign of considering that you may be wrong.

I don't believe you show love for your enemies in your posts, and I see no gentleness in the way you stand up for your beliefs. Nor do you show (in my opinion) any sign of considering that you may be wrong.
That is what you believe. In other words, an opinion from a heretic.

That is what you believe. In other words, an opinion from a heretic.
As I recognised in my first post to you, TT, the fact that I don't fit your description of Christianity makes it very likely that you will disregard me.
I had to try.
Keep praying.

tell that to the protestants and catholics. maybe they'll stop calling each other heretics and condemning eachother to hell...

ROFL!!! Don't hold your breath on THAT one! :)

As I recognised in my first post to you, TT, the fact that I don't fit your description of Christianity makes it very likely that you will disregard me.
I had to try.
Keep praying.
Using irrelevant verses from a distorted translation would be disregarded on its own right, but coming from a non-Christian is going simply too far.

ROFL!!! Don't hold your breath on THAT one! :)
The Catholic Church has condemned any heretical sects and movements since the founding of the Church in Anno Domini 33.
Just because one sect managed to survive due to some weak minds does not give them the power the condemn the Christianity taught and preserved for over 1600 years when the protestant apostates all of a suddenly came along.

Using irrelevant verses from a distorted translation would be disregarded on its own right, but coming from a non-Christian is going simply too far.
Jesus of Nazareth is my boss, and my best friend. I have submitted my life to Him, because He is the Christ, the saviour of the world, the only begotten Son of God. He, together with the Father and the Holy Spirit, is God, and I'd really appreciate it if you didn't call me a non-Christian.
Christianity is my primary group identity; nation, race, ethnic background, career, not even my gender is as important to me as my relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I have complete trust in Him, and I know where I'm going when this body breaks down for good.
If you don't like my Bible version, use your own. If you think the verses are irrelevant, what relevance is the Sermon on the Mount supposed to have?
I know I shouldn't get wound up by your comments; you're working from a completely different mental frame of reference to me. You might not even be Catholic; this could be an excellent form of entertainment for you, pretending to be a racist hate-filled Roman Catholic who rejects everyone and everything that doesn't already agree with him 100%.
If you really are a Catholic, print out this thread, and show your priest. See what he has to say about your comments.

Jesus of Nazareth is my boss, and my best friend. I have submitted my life to Him, because He is the Christ, the saviour of the world, the only begotten Son of God. He, together with the Father and the Holy Spirit, is God, and I'd really appreciate it if you didn't call me a non-Christian.
Christianity is my primary group identity; nation, race, ethnic background, career, not even my gender is as important to me as my relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I have complete trust in Him, and I know where I'm going when this body breaks down for good.
If you don't like my Bible version, use your own. If you think the verses are irrelevant, what relevance is the Sermon on the Mount supposed to have?
I know I shouldn't get wound up by your comments; you're working from a completely different mental frame of reference to me. You might not even be Catholic; this could be an excellent form of entertainment for you, pretending to be a racist hate-filled Roman Catholic who rejects everyone and everything that doesn't already agree with him 100%.
If you really are a Catholic, print out this thread, and show your priest. See what he has to say about your comments.

There is no Christianity outside of Christ's Church.
Please seriously answer this question:
When was your church founded and by what mere man? (http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/jamie/864/hoiyc.htm)
Alternate List with some interesting information here (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3975/churches.htm)

The Catholic Church was founded by God Himself through the
Lord Iesus Christ. I am not "racist, hate-filled," I am just sharing Catholic truth, even if it might make some uncomfortable and make things unfit for "ecumenism." If you believe you are a Christian, maybe you should investigate True Christianity, as taught for 2,000 years through the Holy Mother Church.

Since you seem to treasure Christianity so much, perhaps there is still hope you may reach salvation.

Petrus vero ad illos paenitentiam inquit agite et baptizetur unusquisque vestrum in nomine Iesu Christi in remissionem peccatorum vestrorum et accipietis donum Sancti Spiritus

But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
~Actus Apostolorum II: XXXVIII

[QUOTE=Tenete Traditiones]There is no Christianity outside of Christ's Church.
Please seriously answer this question:
When was your church founded and by what mere man?

The Catholic Church was founded by God Himself through the
Lord Iesus Christ. I am not "racist, hate-filled," I am just sharing Catholic truth, even if it might make some uncomfortable and make things unfit for "ecumenism." If you believe you are a Christian, maybe you should investigate True Christianity, as taught for 2,000 years through the Holy Mother Church.

Since you seem to treasure Christianity so much, perhaps there is still hope you may reach salvation.

Petrus vero ad illos paenitentiam inquit agite et baptizetur unusquisque vestrum in nomine Iesu Christi in remissionem peccatorum vestrorum et accipietis donum Sancti Spiritus

But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
~Actus Apostolorum II: XXXVIII

I agree that there is no Christianity outside Christ's Church, I just define Christ's Church in a different way to you. I belive the Church is the sum total of all those who believe in Jesus Christ; the Church is not an organization, it's the people who accept Jesus as their Lord, like I do.
I belong to a branch of the worldwide Church that you've probably never heard of, called Vineyard. It was founded, by the Holy Spirit, in the 1970's.
If you believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Himself through the Apostles (Peter especially), what is your view on the Orthodox Church (Greek/Russian/Syrian, plus related churches like the Coptic)?
I do indeed treasure Christianity, and I treasure Christ my Lord, and I indeed hope to be saved ("Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1).

"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:31
"If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that
God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, to righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, to salvation." Romans 10:9-10

P.S. I also disagree with the interpretation modern Judaism makes of the Scriptures, particularly those relating to Christ, but you can make that point without sounding like you hate Jews.

[QUOTE=Tenete Traditiones]There is no Christianity outside of Christ's Church.
Please seriously answer this question:
When was your church founded and by what mere man?

The Catholic Church was founded by God Himself through the
Lord Iesus Christ. I am not "racist, hate-filled," I am just sharing Catholic truth, even if it might make some uncomfortable and make things unfit for "ecumenism." If you believe you are a Christian, maybe you should investigate True Christianity, as taught for 2,000 years through the Holy Mother Church.

Since you seem to treasure Christianity so much, perhaps there is still hope you may reach salvation.

Petrus vero ad illos paenitentiam inquit agite et baptizetur unusquisque vestrum in nomine Iesu Christi in remissionem peccatorum vestrorum et accipietis donum Sancti Spiritus

But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
~Actus Apostolorum II: XXXVIII

I agree that there is no Christianity outside Christ's Church, I just define Christ's Church in a different way to you. I belive the Church is the sum total of all those who believe in Jesus Christ; the Church is not an organization, it's the people who accept Jesus as their Lord, like I do.
I belong to a branch of the worldwide Church that you've probably never heard of, called Vineyard. It was founded, by the Holy Spirit, in the 1970's.
If you believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Himself through the Apostles (Peter especially), what is your view on the Orthodox Church (Greek/Russian/Syrian, plus related churches like the Coptic)?
I do indeed treasure Christianity, and I treasure Christ my Lord, and I indeed hope to be saved ("Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1).

"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:31
"If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that
God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, to righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, to salvation." Romans 10:9-10

P.S. I also disagree with the interpretation modern Judaism makes of the Scriptures, particularly those relating to Christ, but you can make that point without sounding like you hate Jews.

But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou may be saved, and thy house. ~Acts 16:31

You must both believe and be baptized in His Church.

But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou may be saved, and thy house. ~Acts 16:31

You must both believe and be baptized in His Church.

Exactly, and I have been baptised, full immersion, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. It was September 17th, 2000. We just disagree about the technical definition of "His Church". You say it's the Catholic Church, I say it's everyone who believes in Jesus, and trusts Him as their Lord.
Sorry, I messed up the quote of your post, but I would like to know your opinions about the Orthodox Church.

Exactly, and I have been baptised, full immersion, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. It was September 17th, 2000. We just disagree about the technical definition of "His Church". You say it's the Catholic Church, I say it's everyone who believes in Jesus, and trusts Him as their Lord.
Sorry, I messed up the quote of your post, but I would like to know your opinions about the Orthodox Church.
The Orthodox Church, a sect of schismatics dating from their excommunication around 1054 A.D.? What is it you want to know about them?

By the way, note the word may in Acts 16:31 regarding being saved by simply "believing."

The Orthodox Church, a sect of schismatics dating from their excommunication around 1054 A.D.? What is it you want to know about them?

By the way, note the word may in Acts 16:31 regarding being saved by simply "believing."
I think the Orthodox churches claim their history back to the Apostles as well, and they think you schismed from them. The Syrian Orthodox, for instance, are still using Aramaic as their liturgical language. Their liturgy dates back to about 300 A.D. (pre-Constantine, if I'm not mistaken). When does the Catholic liturgy date from?
If you don't consider the Acts 16:31 quote to be relevant, how about the Romans 10:9-10?

I think the Orthodox churches claim their history back to the Apostles as well, and they think you schismed from them. The Syrian Orthodox, for instance, are still using Aramaic as their liturgical language. Their liturgy dates back to about 300 A.D. (pre-Constantine, if I'm not mistaken). When does the Catholic liturgy date from?
If you don't consider the Acts 16:31 quote to be relevant, how about the Romans 10:9-10?
Actually I consider Acts 16:31 very relevant in disproving "sola fide."

The Catholic liturgy originated from the very days of the Apostles, during which early Christians offered the Mass on the tombs of the martyrs, not some table like where the protestants have their "communion meal."

Actually I consider Acts 16:31 very relevant in disproving "sola fide."

The Catholic liturgy originated from the very days of the Apostles, during which early Christians offered the Mass on the tombs of the martyrs, not some table like where the protestants have their "communion meal."

But you're basing that part of your proof on the translation of a verb from Greek to Latin, and then to English. Anyway, it's not that I think faith without works means anything anyway (James 2:14-26).
And, again, what about Romans 10:9-10?

But you're basing that part of your proof on the translation of a verb from Greek to Latin, and then to English. Anyway, it's not that I think faith without works means anything anyway (James 2:14-26).
And, again, what about Romans 10:9-10?
For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou may be saved. For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.
~Romans 10:9-10

To confess the Lord Jesus, is not barely the professing a belief in the person of Christ; but moreover, implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which, the calling him Lord will save no man.

Essentially self-explanatory.

Ok, so we've already ruined one thread but hopefully this will help lessen the burden on it. Any thoughts. Personally, the Bible should be written in Greek and yes, Protestants are as christian as Catholics. Neither is better or worse than the other.

Obviously, there is no point in even READING the bible, if you aren't reading it in the original Klingon...

Genesis 1:1 Daq [the] tagh joH'a' [created the] chal je [the] tera'.

Obviously, there is no point in even READING the bible, if you aren't reading it in the original Klingon...

Genesis 1:1 Daq [the] tagh joH'a' [created the] chal je [the] tera'.
What in the world is "Klingon?" Some form of Satanic speech?!

No, the Latin Vulgate is the only inerrant translation of the Bible from the Greek and Hebrew.

The Latin translation isn't inerrant.

And not all of the New Testament books were originally written in Greek... certain parts of the Gospels were FIRST written in Aramaic.

For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou may be saved. For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.
~Romans 10:9-10

To confess the Lord Jesus, is not barely the professing a belief in the person of Christ; but moreover, implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which, the calling him Lord will save no man.

Essentially self-explanatory.

But, again, we're disagreeing on what the whole doctrine of Christ is; as I already stated, I believe that faith without works IS dead.
We're starting to go round in circles here, TT. I might not respond to your next post. You may believe that that means you won the argument; if so, I can live with that.
May the Lord Jesus bless you greatly as you seek to do His will!

What in the world is "Klingon?" Some form of Satanic speech?!

:D

The Latin translation isn't inerrant.

And not all of the New Testament books were originally written in Greek... certain parts of the Gospels were FIRST written in Aramaic.
Yes certain parts and they were translated inerrantly into Latin by Saint Jerome. Even though there are parts in other languages, when one refers to the "original Greek and Hebrew," they typically mean the all of the original languages as these were the predominant ones.

But, again, we're disagreeing on what the whole doctrine of Christ is; as I already stated, I believe that faith without works IS dead.
We're starting to go round in circles here, TT. I might not respond to your next post. You may believe that that means you won the argument; if so, I can live with that.
May the Lord Jesus bless you greatly as you seek to do His will!
And I must say again...

Deus misereatur...

:D
What is so funny?

And I must say again...

Deus misereatur...

O.K., you sucked me back in!

What does "Deus misereatur..." refer to?

O.K., you sucked me back in!

What does "Deus misereatur..." refer to?
May God have mercy...

May God have mercy...
May He indeed have mercy on all He is pleased to!
Gotta go, it's supper time!

All Christians once learned Latin. Not so in the judaized churches.
He did not even provide a chapter and verse so I must dismiss them until he backs them up.

Check your facts.

All Christian ministers once learned Latin.

The laity were not taught Latin, but learned the correct responses by rote... usually with no understanding of the meaning.

Hence the popularity of the KJV, which made the ACTUAL content of the bible available to the non-clergy.... hence also, it's initial lack of popularity with the church.

Check your facts.

All Christian ministers once learned Latin.

The laity were not taught Latin, but learned the correct responses by rote... usually with no understanding of the meaning.

Hence the popularity of the KJV, which made the ACTUAL content of the bible available to the non-clergy.... hence also, it's initial lack of popularity with the church.
THE KJV is a heretical and distorted translation of the Bible.

come on, tell me what "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "judge not lest ye be judged" mean in context.

or did i get them right so you want to ignore me?

Matthew 22:39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".

Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. "

THE KJV is a heretical and distorted translation of the Bible.

Prove it.

First, you'll need to show me that the Latin version is inerrant, which you have failed to do, then you'll have to show me where the Latin version is closer to the original Hebrew or Greek (or Aramaic) than the English translation.

That is what you believe. In other words, an opinion from a heretic.

As opposed to opinions from a nutcase?

I also disagree with the interpretation modern Judaism makes of the Scriptures, particularly those relating to Christ

Such as?

THE KJV is a heretical and distorted translation of the Bible.

Well this is one of the few things I agree with TT on but yes KJV is an extremely inaccurate version of the Bible and if one wants to get crazy about it then yes it could be deemed as heretical...but what's the point in that?

Well this is one of the few things I agree with TT on but yes KJV is an extremely inaccurate version of the Bible and if one wants to get crazy about it then yes it could be deemed as heretical...but what's the point in that?



Well given no one wrote down exactly what was said, I guess all translations will have their errors, although English ones are especially bad.

Okay we'll start off again:

extra ecclesiam nulla salus


WHAT! What the hell is that, cause it sure as hell isn't Latin. Unless you were trying to to say "Outside good health is not the assembly/church". And even that is translated assuming shitty grammar.

From the Jewish perspective, all Christian translations of the Bible aren't to be trusted, anyway, since a lot of them alter words to better suit Christian theology. ;)

Plus they have that whole "extra" part...

Prove it.

First, you'll need to show me that the Latin version is inerrant, which you have failed to do, then you'll have to show me where the Latin version is closer to the original Hebrew or Greek (or Aramaic) than the English translation.


Oh and then show why the original Greek and Hebrew can't be used and a Latin translation is better than the original, a Latin translation you have shown time and again to not understand at all.

From the Jewish perspective, all Christian translations of the Bible aren't to be trusted, anyway, since a lot of them alter words to better suit Christian theology. ;)

Plus they have that whole "extra" part...



The New Testiment is what sets us apart from you.

The New Testiment is what sets us apart from you.

Well, not just that. There's also the issue of how Christianity radically re-interprets various parts of the Jewish bible to fit their own theology.

But then again, Judaism does that, too.

Well, not just that. There's also the issue of how Christianity radically re-interprets various parts of the Jewish bible to fit their own theology.

But then again, Judaism does that, too.


Its a little unfair to say Christianity in and of itself radically redefines areas of Judaism when, in the modern day, Jewish and Christian groups can't even agree on specifics within their own religions and opinions vary so wildly

Its a little unfair to say Christianity in and of itself radically redefines areas of Judaism when, in the modern day, Jewish and Christian groups can't even agree on specifics within their own religions and opinions vary so wildly

Funny, I thought that was part of my point. :confused:

Funny, I thought that was part of my point. :confused:

lol then I'm just a rock and missed the point. Sorry.