NationStates Jolt Archive

America is a country that doesn't know where it is going but is determined to set a speed record getting there.
Laurence J. Peter

It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful to miss it.
Mark Twain

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde

America is a mistake, a giant mistake.
Sigmund Freud

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
Albert Einstein

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched.
Guy de Maupassant

Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
Bertrand Russell

You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
George Bernard Shaw

If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it.
Norman Thomas

America is a nation with many flaws, but hopes so vast that only the cowardly would refuse to acknowledge them.
James Michener

Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.
Robert Orben

In America, through pressure of conformity, there is freedom of choice, but nothing to choose from.
Peter Alexander Ustinov

Perhaps this is our strange and haunting paradox here in America - that we are fixed and certain only when we are in movement.
Thomas Wolfe

We need a type of patriotism that recognizes the virtues of those who are opposed to us. We must get away from the idea that America is to be the leader of the world in everything. She can lead in some things. The old "manifest destiny" idea ought to be modified so that each nation has the manifest destiny to do the best it can - and that without cant, without the assumption of self-righteousness and with a desire to learn to the uttermost from other nations.
Francis John McConnell
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Perhaps some words from the most American of these UnAmerican individuals would cause some members here to hesitate before calling us liberals Anti-American:

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may.
Mark Twain

In America, through pressure of conformity, there is freedom of choice, but nothing to choose from.
Peter Alexander Ustinov

So true.

So true.

So how did you make that decision then? if theres no freedom of choice, of course.

Oddly enough, many of these quotes are not, in fact, anti-american, but lets go over the list that are:
America is a country that doesn't know where it is going but is determined to set a speed record getting there.
Laurence J. Peter

It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful to miss it.
Mark Twain

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde

America is a nation with many flaws, but hopes so vast that only the cowardly would refuse to acknowledge them.
James Michener

In America, through pressure of conformity, there is freedom of choice, but nothing to choose from.
Peter Alexander Ustinov

Perhaps this is our strange and haunting paradox here in America - that we are fixed and certain only when we are in movement.
Thomas Wolfe

We need a type of patriotism that recognizes the virtues of those who are opposed to us. We must get away from the idea that America is to be the leader of the world in everything. She can lead in some things. The old "manifest destiny" idea ought to be modified so that each nation has the manifest destiny to do the best it can - and that without cant, without the assumption of self-righteousness and with a desire to learn to the uttermost from other nations.
Francis John McConnell

If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it.
Norman Thomas

Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.
Robert Orben

The following are merely anti-patriotism:
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
Albert Einstein

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched.
Guy de Maupassant

Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
Bertrand Russell

You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
George Bernard Shaw

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may.
Mark Twain

And this is from Sigmund Freud, the man who invented the idea of the leading question in psychotherapy, was the most arrogant SOB you'll ever find living under a rock, and created the Opedian complex because he didn't want to face the idea that, maybe, depsite his obivous perfection, he was a sick twisted freak:
America is a mistake, a giant mistake.
Sigmund Freud

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
Albert Einstein

didn't he say that about the nazis, not americans?

didn't he say that about the nazis, not americans?
would make A LOT more sense. Considering he could've helped the Nazis at any time, but chose naught.

Funny most of those arent refering to America at all ... and by the way to the one Manifest Destiny hasn't been used in quite a while.

Hey, does anyone remember that point in time where GB ruled the entire earth with an iron fist?

Cause, you know, given the history of things, we haven't been as evil as you.

And this is from Sigmund Freud, the man who invented the idea of the leading question in psychotherapy, was the most arrogant SOB you'll ever find living under a rock, and created the Opedian complex because he didn't want to face the idea that, maybe, depsite his obivous perfection, he was a sick twisted freak:

Um... You do know who Oedipus was and that the Oedipus complex is not just: "I want to sleep with my mother / father." It is broader than that and more of along the lines of "I want my mother's attention, but my father is getting in the way." This tension between father and son (daughter?) is natural.

Hey, does anyone remember that point in time where GB ruled the entire earth with an iron fist?

Cause, you know, given the history of things, we haven't been as evil as you.
Game Boy never ruled the earth w/an iron fist; that's the DS's job!

Game Boy never ruled the earth w/an iron fist; that's the DS's job!
Hopefully, the PSP of the Democrats will pwn the DS's arse.

Or perhaps not...

um GB means great britan, but they didnt rule the world they were an empire. in those days countries were just being discovered and colonised. the french and a lot of other counties colonised too.

oh and that makes it so much better, you practically murdered africa and the middle east

oh and that makes it so much better, you practically murdered africa and the middle east

Um...

1. you can't murder a geographical region, you can only murder a person
2. if you mean murdered all the people in the region, then you're wrong because there's still people there, quite a lot in fact

Edit:

3. I don't think Avarhierrim would be able to murder them all even if he/she tried

you = Great Britain

I said practically, which is not nescessarily all, but a whole lot of.

So, continental subjugation is better than what we've done?

So, continental subjugation is better than what we've done?

I never said that, I was pointing out that your comments were difficult to understand. I did not however, mention that they are pointless, and irrelevant to the topic at hand, but they are.

apologies, I suppose I started running away with your sentance.

Um... You do know who Oedipus was and that the Oedipus complex is not just: "I want to sleep with my mother / father." It is broader than that and more of along the lines of "I want my mother's attention, but my father is getting in the way." This tension between father and son (daughter?) is natural.
The Oedipus compplex isn't about sleeping with your father at all, to put it simply, Freud (using magikal Frued powers) determined that:
All boys go through a phase
This phase makes them want to kill their fathers (not have tension with, just kill)
They also want to bang their mothers
Some people don't grow out of this (thus the Oedipus Complex)
And yes, I know who Oedipus was; he was the man who accidentally killed his father and married his mother in a bloody long play that ends with him gouging out his eyes or something.

would make A LOT more sense. Considering he could've helped the Nazis at any time, but chose naught.

consdiering the nazis are why he left his native country... what with the whole being a jewish person in what was becoming a quickly anti-semetic country.

didn't he say that about the nazis, not americans?
In either case it's pretty interchangeable, no?

"American's are to in love with the sound of their own voice to speak the truth"-Metal Gear Solid 2: Son's of Liberty

you know, I won't say anything to any of the liberals because I respect one's right to their own oppinion, no matter how screwed up or odd it is. I'm tired and paranoid I might end up causing the machine to blow up or something, so I'm just gonna speak my mind.

Most of us who are the reserved people or conservatives (I don't really count myself as anything except reserved) don't generally speak about what we think to anyone but eachother because we don't like getting into debates and ruining friendships. However, I tend to open my mouth a great deal and stick my foot in it without realizing it until my friends prod me in the butt and say so.

Now, I won't call anyone un-american unless they're being truely heinous. To be American is to be proud of your freedom to be who you are and have the willingness and determination to fight for it tooth and nail. To be american means giving your very life for that purpose, even if it's for someone else's freedom. In Texas, the general mindset is like this, if we saw someone being picked on or being hurt, we come and make sure that agressor stops, one way or another. Now, it may just be calling a police officer or a teacher, or it could be that we come right on over and kick your ass ourselves, but we're going to stop it end of story. We don't make threats... we tell the truth and back it up.

That's the biggest thing to me. To be an American is to have the world on your shoulders watching your every move. To Be an American is to do you best in whatever field you're in. Be the best whatever you can be.

Now, I may sound idealistic, but it's the truth. I will say this, if you were ever in trouble, I would be there to help you in any way I can.

Hey, does anyone remember that point in time where GB ruled the entire earth with an iron fist?

Cause, you know, given the history of things, we haven't been as evil as you.

Yeah, ur right. *is ashamed* ah well. We gave everyone they're independence in the end...except Austrailia...and NewZealand...and any other countries with the union jack still in the corner of their flags.

To Sigmund Freud (and anti-americans): This is kind of stupid (cauz Sigmund Freud 's dead and won't be listening) but, America is too much of a successful country to hbe marked as a mistake.

The problem here is that you can quote whoever you like but there will always be someone who says "But he was a *insert-adjective-here* so that doesn't count".

I'm not complaining about that because half the time they're right, i do it myself. I mean you couldn't eg quote hitler on something because you'd crash and burn under the "Hitler-was-evil-nazi-that-doesn't-count" and depending on what he said, most likely that would be right. Everything else is just a matter of scale.

"Use your own judgement" is all very well, but whose judgement decides on who wins a debate?

To the people talking about england: I'm australian. Quite frankly, we don't give a damn that we're officially part of the British Commonwealth or whatever, because officially is worth buggerall these days. Britain could be said to be worse than America IN THE PAST. Right now, all they have a monopoly on is reputations involving tea and biscuits.
Right now, America is the major world power, and not many people are happy about it. except americans, of course. And, well, you know what they say about power corrupting? Yeah, that.

Although quite frankly, stupidity does a lot worse things than corruption, because it's more A)tolerated B)un-noticed and C)harmful in small quantities

The problem here is that you can quote whoever you like but there will always be someone who says "But he was a *insert-adjective-here* so that doesn't count".

I'm not complaining about that because half the time they're right, i do it myself. I mean you couldn't eg quote hitler on something because you'd crash and burn under the "Hitler-was-evil-nazi-that-doesn't-count" and depending on what he said, most likely that would be right. Everything else is just a matter of scale.

"Use your own judgement" is all very well, but whose judgement decides on who wins a debate?

To the people talking about england: I'm australian. Quite frankly, we don't give a damn that we're officially part of the British Commonwealth or whatever, because officially is worth buggerall these days. Britain could be said to be worse than America IN THE PAST. Right now, all they have a monopoly on is reputations involving tea and biscuits.
Right now, America is the major world power, and not many people are happy about it. except americans, of course. And, well, you know what they say about power corrupting? Yeah, that.

Although quite frankly, stupidity does a lot worse things than corruption, because it's more A)tolerated B)un-noticed and C)harmful in small quantities


Don't worry. Rome collapsed because it's citizens got lazy, fat and stupid... Here we have an empire whose people are huge blobs of solid stupidity, so it won't be long now.

you know, I won't say anything to any of the liberals because I respect one's right to their own oppinion, no matter how screwed up or odd it is. I'm tired and paranoid I might end up causing the machine to blow up or something, so I'm just gonna speak my mind.

Most of us who are the reserved people or conservatives (I don't really count myself as anything except reserved) don't generally speak about what we think to anyone but eachother because we don't like getting into debates and ruining friendships. However, I tend to open my mouth a great deal and stick my foot in it without realizing it until my friends prod me in the butt and say so.

Now, I won't call anyone un-american unless they're being truely heinous. To be American is to be proud of your freedom to be who you are and have the willingness and determination to fight for it tooth and nail. To be american means giving your very life for that purpose, even if it's for someone else's freedom. In Texas, the general mindset is like this, if we saw someone being picked on or being hurt, we come and make sure that agressor stops, one way or another. Now, it may just be calling a police officer or a teacher, or it could be that we come right on over and kick your ass ourselves, but we're going to stop it end of story. We don't make threats... we tell the truth and back it up.

That's the biggest thing to me. To be an American is to have the world on your shoulders watching your every move. To Be an American is to do you best in whatever field you're in. Be the best whatever you can be.

Now, I may sound idealistic, but it's the truth. I will say this, if you were ever in trouble, I would be there to help you in any way I can.

no, thats not what you do when you're an American, that is what you do when you are a decent person. Many Americans are not like that, many other people in the world are not like that.

Conclusion, no one is a decent person because of their nationality, however, it does help if you have other decent people around to give an example.
I know many decent people in many different countries.

Patriotism is the label under which fascism lurks.

Warning Signs of Fascism


1. Exuberant nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic images, slogans and symbols - National flags are seen everywhere in public display. Territorial aggression is explained to be mere destiny -- an unbidden greatness thrust upon the nation by history.

It is this burden of unique responsibility that now raises the fascist state above all previous constraint, no longer bound by international obligations, treaties or law.


2. Enemies Identified

This national cause is identified as unity against enemies - The people are rallied around a unifying patriotism directed against some common threat: communists, liberals, a racial, ethnic or religious minority, intellectuals, homosexuals, terrorists, etc.

The state's message is sometimes couched in an easily recognized religious theme. Amazingly, this language is used even when the full context of the teaching shows the meaning to be diametrically opposed. Any dissent is "siding with the enemy", and therefor treasonous.


3. Rights Disappear

Disdain for human and political rights - Fascist regimes foster an artificial climate of fear by intentionally amplifying stress and anxiety. Citizens naturally feel a strong need for security and are easily persuaded to ignore abuses in the name of safety. The few still willing to question are met with bullying and smear campaigns of intimidation.

Legislative bodies, if still in existence at all, are cowed into rubber-stamp submission with occasional ceremonial opposition. The judiciary tends to become activist in support of state views. The public often looks away, or even enthusiastically approves as rights are stripped away.

The concept of the individual inevitably yields ground, exchanged for the promised safety of the all-powerful state.


4. Secrecy Demanded

Obsession with secrecy and national security - The workings of government become increasingly hidden. Questioning of authority is discouraged at all levels of society. From office talk at the water cooler up through the entire apparatus of rule, guarded speech and secrecy become ends in themselves.

Troubling questions are muted and entire areas of scrutiny are placed out of bounds by simply invoking "national security".


5. Military Glorified

Supremacy of the military - The military establishment receives a disproportionate share of government resources, even as pressing domestic needs are neglected. Individual soldiers and military culture are glamorized and made constantly visible.

This provides both an object for public glorification, as well as sharp warning to possibly restless citizens that the power of the state stands close at hand, ready to use its great potential for violence.


6. Corporations Shielded

Corporate power is protected - Typically, a segment of the business elite plays a major role in bringing fascists to national leadership, often from an unsavory obscurity. This marriage of big money and raw violence is often considered by historians to be the hallmark and backbone of fascism.

As these business-government-military interests meld, the significant threat of organized labor is clearly recognized. Labor unions and their support organizations are either co-opted successfully or ruthlessly suppressed and eliminated as soon as possible.


7. Corruption Unchecked

Rampant cronyism and corruption - Fascist states maintain power through this relatively small group of associates, mutually appointing each other to interlocking and rotating positions in government, business and the military.

With this degree of control, they make full use of both official secrecy and the ready threat of state violence to insulate themselves from any meaningful criticism. They are not accountable and are shielded from scrutiny in a way unthinkable in a democratic society.


8. Media Controlled

Controlled mass media - Sometimes the media are controlled directly by clumsy government functionaries. At other times, sympathetic corporate media insiders shape the themes indirectly, and therefor more skillfully. Image regularly trumps content as the "news" is presented breathlessly and with flashy stage effects.
A practiced formula of tenacious repetition brings even the most absurd lie into acceptance over time. By design, the very language itself and the coloration employed will push alternate views "out of the mainstream".

The terms of any remaining debate are narrowly defined to the state's advantage, making it easy to marginalize a truly differing perspective. Censorship and "self-censorship", especially in wartime, is common.


9. Rampant Sexism

Rampant sexism - Governments of fascist states tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Traditional gender roles are made even more rigid and exaggerated. Condemnation of abortion and a virulent homophobia are commonly built into broad policy.


10. Intellectual Bullying

Disdain for intellectuals - Fascist society tends to create an environment of extreme hostility to critical thought in general, and to academics in particular.

Ideologically driven "science" is elevated and lavishly funded, while any expression not in line with the state view is at first ignored, then challenged, then ridiculed and finally stamped out.

It is not uncommon for academics to be pressured to attack the work of their insufficiently patriotic peers. Writings are censored; teachers are fired and arrested. Free artistic expression in new works is openly attacked, and existing works deemed unpatriotic are often publicly destroyed.


11. Militarized Police

Obsession with crime and punishment - Fascist society is often willing to overlook police abuses and forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. Long jail sentences for clearly political offenses, torture and then assassination are at first uncomfortably tolerated, and then start to pile up to become the norm.

Often a national police force is given virtually unlimited power to snoop through the civilian population. Networks of surveillance and informers are employed, both for actual intelligence gathering and also as a means to keep neighbors and co-workers isolated and mistrustful of each other.


12. Elections Stolen

Fraudulent elections - In the disordered time as fascists are rising to power, the electoral arena becomes increasingly confusing, corrupted, and manipulated.

There is rising public cynicism and distrust over what are widely believed to be phony elections manipulated by moneyed influence, obvious media bias, smear campaigns, ballot tampering, judicial interference, intimidation, or outright assassination of potential opposition. Fascists in power have been known to use this disorder as the rationale to delay elections indefinitely.