NationStates Jolt Archive

Just type your opinion and vote, i need it for my history lessions, i need Your opinion. thank you.

Quetion: Is Israel actions in Golam Height, South Lebanon, West Bank and Gaza Strip are legal?

We went a whole week without this debate, best week on NS so far.

Quetion: Is Israel actions in Golam Height, South Lebanon, West Bank and Gaza Strip are legal?
What are we doing in Lebanon? I must have missed that particular news broadcast, same for the Golan Heights. As for the West Bank and Gaza, all we do is retaliate, we never start the trouble.
Take today, Israeli forces are massing outside Gaza, the reason, not because we want to "drive the Palestinans innto the sea" as they wish to do to us but because of a rocket strike killing two lttle kids in Shderot. We only retaliate and that is fine.

Golan Height (syria) and some teritory in South Lebanon is occupated by Israel. That is what is writed in my history book and geographical atlas, but maybe you know better.

Hell no. They shouldn't be legal anyway.

We only retaliate and that is fine.

Hahahahahaha. Serious? When the Palestinians retaliate, they are seen as monsters.

That is what is writed in my history book and geographical atlas, but maybe you know better.

Just type your opinion and vote, i need it for my history lessions, i need Your opinion.

Is Israel actions in Golam Height, South Lebanon, West Bank and Gaza Strip are legal?

I'd suggest putting down the history book in favor of a basic English grammar book. That's just my opinion, though.

to Keruvalia
english language is only fourth of my languages, so... whatever...

What are we doing in Lebanon?

Where should I start? It's not so much 'what are we doing to Lebanon', but more 'what have we done to Lebanon?'
Israeli forces occupied Lebanon for 22 years, until they were driven back. During the early stages of their occupation, they were bombing Beirut almost every day. Occasionally, they still fly over and drop bombs.

Golan Height (syria) and some teritory in South Lebanon is occupated by Israel. That is what is writed in my history book and geographical atlas, but maybe you know better.
Yeah we own the Golan, but Syria attacked us and we kept the land as a bargaining tool. If we'd invaded Syria and taken the land, then it would be illegal, but they invaded us and when they retreated we took the land. Did you know that they used to fire mortars into Israeli towns from the Golan Heights?

And whoever it was who said the Palestinians retaliate, you're right. They are monsters because they target CIVILIANS. The Israeli army targets MILITANTS. See the difference???

Where should I start? It's not so much 'what are we doing to Lebanon', but more 'what have we done to Lebanon?'
Israeli forces occupied Lebanon for 22 years, until they were driven back. During the early stages of their occupation, they were bombing Beirut almost every day. Occasionally, they still fly over and drop bombs.
Souces please. You're new here but traditionally if you post crap you're meant to post a source for it. So why did we occupy Lebanon? One day the PM woke up and decided, "Hey lets take over Lebanon, that could be good fun for the men!" Because they attacked us, pick up a history book and read about the six day war.

to Keruvalia
english language is only fourth of my languages, so... whatever...

Then post in your native tongue. English doesn't seem to be working out for you.

Then post in your native tongue. English doesn't seem to be working out for you.
And then how would we understand him?

And then how would we understand him?

Learn his native tongue?

And whoever it was who said the Palestinians retaliate, you're right. They are monsters because they target CIVILIANS. The Israeli army targets MILITANTS. See the difference???

Goodness. How bloody bias can you get? Open your eyes please and take a look at what is happening in your country.
First of all, the Israeli's were given land in Palestine. They were not meant to take control, but they did. Ok, fair enough. Though surely the Palestinians are allowed to defend their own land?! Not that they had much to defend with anyway, stick and stones more like it (if that).

The Israeli army does not target innocent civilians? What a load of crap.
Hello!
The Palestinian people are oppressed and suffering to this day! They do not have equal opportunities or freedoms.
One example of countless attacks on civilians by the Israeli army is when soldiers shot at a five year old boy, whos father was crouching in front of him, begging them not to take the life of his son!
It's common for the Israeli army to bulldoze the homes and plantations of the Palestinians for no reason at all!

I hope you enjoy living in a country that treats it's original citizens like that, on the basis of their race and religion. I hope that when you mourn the devestation of the holocaust, you also mourn the traumas which are being inflicted upon the Palestinian people in the present time.

Learn his native tongue?
Oh, shut up. *disgusted*.

Goodness. How bloody bias can you get? Open your eyes please and take a look at what is happening in your country.
First of all, the Israeli's were given land in Palestine. They were not meant to take control, but they did. Ok, fair enough. Though surely the Palestinians are allowed to defend their own land?! Not that they had much to defend with anyway, stick and stones more like it (if that).

The Israeli army does not target innocent civilians? What a load of crap.
Hello!
The Palestinian people are oppressed and suffering to this day! They do not have equal opportunities or freedoms.
One example of countless attacks on civilians by the Israeli army is when soldiers shot at a five year old boy, whos father was crouching in front of him, begging them not to take the life of his son!
It's common for the Israeli army to bulldoze the homes and plantations of the Palestinians for no reason at all!

I hope you enjoy living in a country that treats it's original citizens like that, on the basis of their race and religion. I hope that when you mourn the devestation of the holocaust, you also mourn the traumas which are being inflicted upon the Palestinian people in the present time.
Ahh, and did you not see the daily news of Israeli men, women and children beign killed by Palestinian suicide bombers? You surely must be blind. Obviously both sides commit daily atrocities, and perhaps it'll only end when every civilian on one side is dead.

Souces please. You're new here but traditionally if you post crap you're meant to post a source for it. So why did we occupy Lebanon? One day the PM woke up and decided, "Hey lets take over Lebanon, that could be good fun for the men!" Because they attacked us, pick up a history book and read about the six day war.

Actually, the reason Lebanon was invaded has nothing to do with that.
Rather, Israel claimed Lebanon was holding terrorist Palestinians (PLO - Palestinian Liberation Organisation) and therefore decided to invade. Lovely.

The Palestinians who were kicked out by Israel only had two places to go, Jordan or Lebanon. Lebanon took hundres of thousands and Israel chased them into Lebanon. Israel invaded twice, in 1978 and 1982.

Goodness. How bloody bias can you get? Open your eyes please and take a look at what is happening in your country.
First of all, the Israeli's were given land in Palestine. They were not meant to take control, but they did. Ok, fair enough. Though surely the Palestinians are allowed to defend their own land?! Not that they had much to defend with anyway, stick and stones more like it (if that).

The Israeli army does not target innocent civilians? What a load of crap.
Hello!
The Palestinian people are oppressed and suffering to this day! They do not have equal opportunities or freedoms.
One example of countless attacks on civilians by the Israeli army is when soldiers shot at a five year old boy, whos father was crouching in front of him, begging them not to take the life of his son!
It's common for the Israeli army to bulldoze the homes and plantations of the Palestinians for no reason at all!

I hope you enjoy living in a country that treats it's original citizens like that, on the basis of their race and religion. I hope that when you mourn the devestation of the holocaust, you also mourn the traumas which are being inflicted upon the Palestinian people in the present time.
SOURCES!!! ANY!!!
1) The Palestinians have equal voting rights AND full citizenship.

2) I think you'll find that the father was crouching behind the boy to save himself.

3) The Palestinians recieve 3BN USD a year from Iran and Syria alone. In addition they recieve money from Israel. Where is all this money? In Arafats bank account. I'll give Arafat credit he's clever to manage to pull the wool over the eyes of practically the whole world.

4) Of course I'm biased. What did you expect? I've had friends paralyzed by terrorists, friends killed by suicidal women. Unlike you who relies on the media, I live here, I get the full story. You watch the terror, I live it.

5)We were given control by the Brits. It was British land, and after WW2 both they and the UN decided that we deserve one place where we dont get persecuted for our beliefs. Some people can't even leave us alone there. We have 1 measly country. A country the size of Cornwall in Britain. Muslims and Christians have dozens each.

Actually, the reason Lebanon was invaded has nothing to do with that.
Rather, Israel claimed Lebanon was holding terrorist Palestinians (PLO - Palestinian Liberation Organisation) and therefore decided to invade. Lovely.

The Palestinians who were kicked out by Israel only had two places to go, Jordan or Lebanon. Lebanon took hundres of thousands and Israel chased them into Lebanon. Israel invaded twice, in 1978 and 1982.
SOURCES DAMN IT!!!
I honestly believe you haven't a clue what you're going on about and will ignore you until you begin posting sources.

Ahh, and did you not see the daily news of Israeli men, women and children beign killed by Palestinian suicide bombers? You surely must be blind. Obviously both sides commit daily atrocities, and perhaps it'll only end when every civilian on one side is dead.

You surely must be stupid to come up with the conclusion that I'm unaware of the atrocities committed by the Palestinians.
I know all about suicide bombers. It's terrible what they do and nothing will ever justify their evil actions.

One thing though, we have to understand that the atrocities they commit result from their desperation, fustration and hopelessness. They feel it is the only way to get their voices 'heard', because they are so oppressed and suffer so much.

The thing is, their actions do not help their cause. It only works to harm the cause and make the situation worse. It increases hate and cruely takes the lives of many innocent Israeli's.
So yes, clearly horrors are committed by both sides. We can only hope that one day soon there will be peace.

One thing though, we have to understand that the atrocities they commit result from their desperation, fustration and hopelessness. They feel it is the only way to get their voices 'heard', because they are so oppressed and suffer so much.
Do you mind telling me who oppresses them???
You'd better not answer Israel. Anyone with a brain cell can tell that it's Arafat. He keeps the people oppressed and they keep volunteering to blow themselves up because he pays their families money afterwards.

SOURCES DAMN IT!!!
I honestly believe you haven't a clue what you're going on about and will ignore you until you begin posting sources.

I do have a clue actually. I honestly believe no amount of sources will swing your bias though. I won't be posting any sources just yet, until I can be bothered to.
Whilst we are talking about sources. Please provide me with yours.

Do you mind telling me who oppresses them???
You'd better not answer Israel. Anyone with a brain cell can tell that it's Arafat. He keeps the people oppressed and they keep volunteering to blow themselves up because he pays their families money afterwards.

Dude, you have got to be kidding me.
My answer is Isreal.
*sigh*
Few people blow themselves up just because they will receive money. It goes far deeper than that, is much more complicated and has nothing to do with Arafat. You should really stop scape goating and accept things for how they are. Only then will Isreal really have a chance at peace.

You surely must be stupid to come up with the conclusion that I'm unaware of the atrocities committed by the Palestinians.
I know all about suicide bombers. It's terrible what they do and nothing will ever justify their evil actions.

One thing though, we have to understand that the atrocities they commit result from their desperation, fustration and hopelessness. They feel it is the only way to get their voices 'heard', because they are so oppressed and suffer so much.

The thing is, their actions do not help their cause. It only works to harm the cause and make the situation worse. It increases hate and cruely takes the lives of many innocent Israeli's.
So yes, clearly horrors are committed by both sides. We can only hope that one day soon there will be peace.
Ok. I retract my statement. It's just because I've grown disgusted at fingers pointed to only one side or the other as the blame, and it does happen. Yeah, we all wish for peace, but I'm too cynical to believe it.

all we do is retaliate, we never start the trouble.nice try. "you" started the trouble in 1947.

I'd suggest putting down the history book in favor of a basic English grammar book. That's just my opinion, though.
Ehem. Why Your is wrong? If I want to be polite, I'll write it with a capital. Maybe You haven't learned how to be polite in English?

nice try. "you" started the trouble in 1947.
Heh, as I recall, it was the Arab nations that declared war on Israel, almost as soon as it was born.

And whoever it was who said the Palestinians retaliate, you're right. They are monsters because they target CIVILIANS. The Israeli army targets MILITANTS. See the difference???
You must watch and read different news than the rest of us. Four times more Palestinians than Israelis have been killed after the Intifada started. Just yesterday Israeli troops killed 21 Palestinians in Gaza (AFP, Reuters) eight of them were militants, rest were civilians.

3) The Palestinians recieve 3BN USD a year from Iran and Syria alone. In addition they recieve money from Israel. Where is all this money? In Arafats bank account. I'll give Arafat credit he's clever to manage to pull the wool over the eyes of practically the whole world.


About $2.9bn in grants and aid are routinely awarded each year to Israel by US.
Sources i.e. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2513159.stm
where's yours. I doubt that your figures are right. That Palestinians get more aid than Israelis....

http://www.fresno.k12.ca.us/schools/s090/history/middle_east.htm
A brief history for you.


http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/concepts/d3.html
And a quote:
"From their positions on the Golan Heights, the Syrians shelled Israeli settlements, attacked fishing boats on the Kinneret [Sea of Galilee] and fired on agricultural workers in the demilitarized zones along the frontier."

and:
"In April 1967, the Syrian interference with farming operations in the demilitarized zones on the Kinneret were stepped up, with increased shelling on Israel villages."

and:
"In the north, the Syrians had been shelling Israel's towns and villages from their heavily fortified positions on the Golan Heights. With the fighting over in the south and the center, The Israeli Defense Forces attacked the Syrian army on June 9. By June 10, Israeli forces had captured the Golan heights and the danger of Syrian shelling had been removed from the Israel villages."

Breaking a cease-fire, what honourable men:
"On March 30, Nasser announced that Egypt would no longer be bound by the cease-fire."

Last but not least:
"After expulsion from Jordan, the main center for P.L.O. terror became Southern Lebanon, the Lebanese government being unable to prevent terrorist activities. In 1978 Palestinians guerrillas launched an air raid on Israel from their bases in Lebanon. In retaliation, Israel sent troops into southern Lebanon to occupy a strip 6-10 km. deep and thus protect Israel's border (Litani Operation). Eventually, a UN peace-keeping force was set up there."

Do you want more sources? I'm just getting started. Thats after 1 search on google.

Funding sources? say no more.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/5/The%20Involvement%20of%20Arafat-%20PA%20Senior%20Officials%20and#chapter6
read points 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 13, 16.

[Helioterra #28]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctaphrax

And whoever it was who said the Palestinians retaliate, you're right. They are monsters because they target CIVILIANS. The Israeli army targets MILITANTS. See the difference???

You must watch and read different news than the rest of us. Four times more Palestinians than Israelis have been killed after the Intifada started. Just yesterday Israeli troops killed 21 Palestinians in Gaza (AFP, Reuters) eight of them were militants, rest were civilians.

Bummer for the civy casualties. They really shouldn't group up around terrorists, though.

And I would hope that four times as many aggressors would be killed as defenders. Too bad more aggressors aren't eliminated from the mix.

What would it look like if the "poor downtrodden exiles" were to become the nicest bunch of folks on the planet tomorrow?

Ghandi is a paragon to most all of you out there, I imagine. What advice would Ghandi have for the miserable hopeless desperate masses..?

I don't want to undervalue the suffering of Israelis but I can not find Israel's actions reasonable in any way.
As there has been links to i.e. Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs (thanks for giving us the sources) I would like to add a link which shares a different point of view.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/US_Aid_to_Israel.htm

"Israel’s GNP is higher than the combined GNP of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and the Occupied Palestinian Territories."

The occupied territories threw away their economy to enhance their "oppressed" image. Also, it doesn't mean that Israels rich, it means that those countries are poor. They are ruled by people who take all the money made by the people into their own pockets. England also has a higher GNP than them combined, where's the problem. Jews are known to have high levels of education and they do very well, in my opinion that just means that they work hard.

Israel's population is nearer 7 Million.

"Since 28 September 2000, Israeli police, soldiers and settlers have killed more than 2,050 Palestinians -- the vast majority of them civilians -- in contravention of international law."

What statistic did they forget to mention? The amount of Jews killed, all of them civilians. Settlers in my opinion are as much terrorists as the Hamas and Al-Fatah but you can't say, "they represent the state of Israel." They don't.

"The United States provides direct and indirect military aid to Israel "
As do Iran and Syria and Lebanon to the territories, I fail to see the point.

"Israel has the world’s largest fleet of F-16s outside the US, currently possessing 200 jets -- with a further 102 on order with American manufacturer Lockheed Martin;"
When was the last time we used them? I could have 500 jets but if I dont use them... where's the problem. We use it as a deterrent.

Well, I found that less than convincing I must say.

Well, I found that less than convincing I must say.
I'm not trying to convince you, I just wanted to show other ones that there are always two sides in the story. You won't be able to convince me either. Fair enough. I just hope people could find a way to tranquilize the whole area but it seems that things have gone too far.
But I'm naive and keep hoping.

Ehem. Why Your is wrong? If I want to be polite, I'll write it with a capital. Maybe You haven't learned how to be polite in English?

"Polite" is an opinion. Established rules of English grammar have nothing to do with opinion. Impropriety is never polite.

Funding sources? say no more.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/5/The%20Involvement%20of%20Arafat-%20PA%20Senior%20Officials%20and#chapter6
read points 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 13, 16.

My oh my. That sourcce has to be fair and unbiased, eh?

Ehem. Why Your is wrong? If I want to be polite, I'll write it with a capital. Maybe You haven't learned how to be polite in English?

In western culture you never capitalize a pronoun unless:
1.You are begining a sentence with it.
2.You are talking about God.
3.You are talking about Jesus.

In western culture you never capitalize a pronoun unless:
1.You are begining a sentence with it.
2.You are talking about God.
3.You are talking about Jesus.
You are talking about yourself? You always capitalize "I"

You are talking about yourself? You always capitalize "I"

touche

I think "I" is an exception to any rule.

I think "I" is an exception to any rule.
Slightly off topic guys, try and focus!

My oh my. That sourcce has to be fair and unbiased, eh?
The Israeli intelligence, the best in the world. Better than any other intelligence agency I would think. When the Israeli intelligence say something it generally turns out to be true. Take 9/11, Israel warned America who completely ignored it. Smart people eh?

touche
Alright. I know you're not supposed to write You with a capital, but. My English teacher has always told us that if you want to be very polite you should write "you" with a capital. Short from Your Honour, Your Highness etc. Also those two American professors who have sent emails to me have always wrote "You", "Yours" and so on.
Is this completely wrong or?

The Israeli intelligence, the best in the world. Better than any other intelligence agency I would think. When the Israeli intelligence say something it generally turns out to be true. Take 9/11, Israel warned America who completely ignored it. Smart people eh?
Alright, sorry, back to topic. I really can't say anything about Israeli intelligence but I just wanted to say that many countries warned US and even told them who are the persons they should arrest. They didn't listen to anyone. So very smart...

Slightly off topic guys, try and focus!

Of course good sir (or madam) I agree with you whole heartedly on all points, I guess I'm just so sick of people making Isreal the bad guy in all of this that I'd rather talk about grammar. But I will refrain out of respect for the...noble...spirit of Nation States debate.

Goodness. How bloody bias can you get? Open your eyes please and take a look at what is happening in your country.
First of all, the Israeli's were given land in Palestine. They were not meant to take control, but they did. Ok, fair enough. Though surely the Palestinians are allowed to defend their own land?! Not that they had much to defend with anyway, stick and stones more like it (if that).

The Israeli army does not target innocent civilians? What a load of crap.
Hello!
The Palestinian people are oppressed and suffering to this day! They do not have equal opportunities or freedoms.
One example of countless attacks on civilians by the Israeli army is when soldiers shot at a five year old boy, whos father was crouching in front of him, begging them not to take the life of his son!
It's common for the Israeli army to bulldoze the homes and plantations of the Palestinians for no reason at all!

I hope you enjoy living in a country that treats it's original citizens like that, on the basis of their race and religion. I hope that when you mourn the devestation of the holocaust, you also mourn the traumas which are being inflicted upon the Palestinian people in the present time.


Palestinians have equal freedoms, and i CHALLENGE you to find a single example of racist legislature. The bulldozing is to show that complicity with terrorism shall not go unpunished. As for the (sob, sob) five year old boy myth, any sources? or are we to take your word for this biased bullshit. Israel were granted the right to nationalise Israel by the UN, and it is the only state that stands between the jews and another holocaust. comparing the holocaust with the Palestinian grievences, legitimate though some may be, is a typical tactic to attack jews and exempt Europeans from holocaust guilt. Think of some legitimate complaints, not just the same ones being endlessly recycled!! THIS DEBATE IS GETTING SERIOUSLY BORING!

[Helioterra #44]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisbee Seppuku
touche

Alright. I know you're not supposed to write You with a capital, but. My English teacher has always told us that if you want to be very polite you should write "you" with a capital. Short from Your Honour, Your Highness etc. Also those two American professors who have sent emails to me have always wrote "You", "Yours" and so on.
Is this completely wrong or?

Hmmm.. I don't think "you" is ever capitalized unless it's in a title or at the beginning of a sentence.

English doesn't have an "honorific you". There is no "shorthand" for "Your Honor", etc..

And it's "..have always written". I'm not criticizing at all,.. I very much admire multilingual folks. I'm just correcting. ( My mother was severely frightened by an English teacher,.. her mother..! :) )

And it's also very "odd" to end a sentence with "but" or "or".

:D

Hell no. They shouldn't be legal anyway.



Hahahahahaha. Serious? When the Palestinians retaliate, they are seen as monsters.

It's not the fact that they "retaliate", it's how they retaliate. It's not always retaliation either. Most of the time, it's just starting up more fighting again.

Mmmmmmm...excellent. The hijacking of this thread has begun...

;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nierez
"One thing though, we have to understand that the atrocities they commit result from their desperation, fustration and hopelessness. They feel it is the only way to get their voices 'heard', because they are so oppressed and suffer so much."

BOLLOCKS. There was a jewish extremist (Ben Friedman) who entered a mosque and killed everyone. This was after his family were gunned down by palestinian militia. i.e. he did it because of his "hopelessness" or "despapration". Both attacks on Israelis and this attack have been justified by what you said. Now if you dont condemn the suicide bombing, surely you dont condemn this. BE CONSISTENT.

The day Isreal storms the Ramallah compound and tries Yasser Arafat for crimes against humanity, and then executes him, will be a happy day indeed. In hte meantime I will continue to supports the execution of Hamas terrorists who want nothing less than Isreal's complete and total destruction.
PLO Charter: Article 15:
The liberation of Palestine, from an Arab viewpoint, is a national duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the the liquidation of the Zionist presence in Palestine.

And it's "..have always written". I'm not criticizing at all,.. I very much admire multilingual folks. I'm just correcting. ( My mother was severely frightened by an English teacher,.. her mother..! :) )

And it's also very "odd" to end a sentence with "but" or "or".



Ok, I won't use it anymore then :) Oh yes, of course it's WRITTEN, I do know that, I'm just not very accurate when I write this kind of posts...I should check what I write...oh and the dot after but was just "pointing" (hehe) that it is a big BUT :D

hey, what's your opinion about the actual topic?

Mmmmmmm...excellent. The hijacking of this thread has begun...

;)
I agree with you that this issue is debated so constantly that it is getting a bit boring. I would love to see some new conceptions.
hey let's not hate each other all the time? anyone seconds?

[Helioterra #44]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisbee Seppuku
touche

Alright. I know you're not supposed to write You with a capital, but. My English teacher has always told us that if you want to be very polite you should write "you" with a capital. Short from Your Honour, Your Highness etc. Also those two American professors who have sent emails to me have always wrote "You", "Yours" and so on.
Is this completely wrong or?

Hmmm.. I don't think "you" is ever capitalized unless it's in a title or at the beginning of a sentence.

English doesn't have an "honorific you". There is no "shorthand" for "Your Honor", etc..

And it's "..have always written". I'm not criticizing at all,.. I very much admire multilingual folks. I'm just correcting. ( My mother was severely frightened by an English teacher,.. her mother..! :) )

And it's also very "odd" to end a sentence with "but" or "or".

:D
Iakeokeo, snap out of it!!!
Israel-Palestine remember? We were debating it on this thread, you want to debate grammar then start a new thread.

But seriously folks, I feel bad for the Palestinians too, they're victims of their own propaganda and a few organizations that refuse to ever make peace. The problem is that the few/many Palesitians who don't want peace are ruining it for the rest. Of course, those in other nations who give aid and comfort to the terrorists are partially at fault as well. Indeed, to say that the Palestinians slaughter innocent civilians because they are hopless and have no other way to express themselves at once ignores the fact that Isreal has made huge concessions in the past and is ready to make many more just as soon as the Palestinians stop killing people (a reasonable request if you ask me). People like Arafat and organizations like Hamas, Hezbullah (forgive the spelling, I just woke up), and the PLO (yes, I said the PLO) are going to do everything they can to destroy Israel and will stop at nothing less.

I agree with you that this issue is debated so constantly that it is getting a bit boring. I would love to see some new conceptions.
hey let's not hate each other all the time? anyone seconds?


Second the motion.

But seriously folks, I feel bad for the Palestinians too, they're victims of their own propaganda and a few organizations that refuse to ever make peace. The problem is that the few/many Palesitians who don't want peace are ruining it for the rest. Of course, those in other nations who give aid and comfort to the terrorists are partially at fault as well. Indeed, to say that the Palestinians slaughter innocent civilians because they are hopless and have no other way to express themselves at once ignores the fact that Isreal has made huge concessions in the past and is ready to make many more just as soon as the Palestinians stop killing people (a reasonable request if you ask me). People like Arafat and organizations like Hamas, Hezbullah (forgive the spelling, I just woke up), and the PLO (yes, I said the PLO) are going to do everything they can to destroy Israel and will stop at nothing less.
Does anyone else see any similarity on what has been going on in Northern Ireland for decades? It's not as bloody or severe but finding a solution seems to impossible. There's too much hatred and eagerness to revenge.

Hear hear, that's why we should send them packages of candy in the mail, because everyone like presents. I think it would lighten the mood over there.

Hear hear, that's why we should send them packages of candy in the mail, because everyone like presents. I think it would lighten the mood over there.
Are you a presidential candidate in any country? I would vote for you.

Hear hear, that's why we should send them packages of candy in the mail, because everyone like presents. I think it would lighten the mood over there.
Arafat would take it and put it in his bank account!

But seriously folks, I feel bad for the Palestinians too, they're victims of their own propaganda and a few organizations that refuse to ever make peace. The problem is that the few/many Palesitians who don't want peace are ruining it for the rest. Of course, those in other nations who give aid and comfort to the terrorists are partially at fault as well. Indeed, to say that the Palestinians slaughter innocent civilians because they are hopless and have no other way to express themselves at once ignores the fact that Isreal has made huge concessions in the past and is ready to make many more just as soon as the Palestinians stop killing people (a reasonable request if you ask me). People like Arafat and organizations like Hamas, Hezbullah (forgive the spelling, I just woke up), and the PLO (yes, I said the PLO) are going to do everything they can to destroy Israel and will stop at nothing less.
Me too, don't get me wrong, we have palestinian friends. Really nice people, reeeaaaaaaly nice food. It's a minority trying to speak for the whole people. Anyone who speaks out is a traitor and is shot.

Arafat would take it and put it in his bank account!
Why Arafat is such a big threat to you? I mean I do know quite a lot of what he has been doing but as you're so much closer to the whole issue. I hope Israelis won't kill him as I can't see anything good happening after that. Now it seems quite a lot of Palestinians are against Arafat but if he gets killed they'll find him as a martyr and that would be a bad thing.

Israel was ordained to be "a light to enlighten the Gentiles", to set a high moral example, and teach us the way of the law.

Their brutal actions have forfeited that right.

We do not even see most of their atrocities, our press is so biased. Yesterday MSN had a headline "25 dead in Palestinian clash"; I looked into the story and guess what? 23 of the dead were Palestinian. Funny; you don't get that impression from the headline.

Eight Palestinians killed by Israeli troops in Gaza today. (Reuters)

Israel was ordained to be "a light to enlighten the Gentiles", to set a high moral example, and teach us the way of the law.

Their brutal actions have forfeited that right.

We do not even see most of their atrocities, our press is so biased. Yesterday MSN had a headline "25 dead in Palestinian clash"; I looked into the story and guess what? 23 of the dead were Palestinian. Funny; you don't get that impression from the headline.
Don't give me that BS.
Here's a little exercise that I tried on the other thread, its a spot the difference.
This was the retaliation to the Be'er Sheba bus bombings titled
Gaza strike kills 14 "militants"
Do the BBC know something that we don't? As far as the rest of the world is concerned they were militants but the BBC know better.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3633158.stm
and by comparison, the bus bombing that sparked the retaliation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3614614.stm
well... there appear to be a distinct lack of injured Israeli's pictured, no such problem in the first article. The BBC really do their best to portray the PA sympathetically in this because they "The Palestinian Authority condemns any attacks that target civilians, whether Israelis or Palestinian." *cough BS cough* If they condemn it, don't fund it!

Don't give me that BS.
Here's a little exercise that I tried on the other thread, its a spot the difference.
This was the retaliation to the Be'er Sheba bus bombings titled
Gaza strike kills 14 "militants"
Do the BBC know something that we don't? As far as the rest of the world is concerned they were militants but the BBC know better.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3633158.stm
and by comparison, the bus bombing that sparked the retaliation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3614614.stm
well... there appear to be a distinct lack of injured Israeli's pictured, no such problem in the first article. The BBC really do their best to portray the PA sympathetically in this because they "The Palestinian Authority condemns any attacks that target civilians, whether Israelis or Palestinian." *cough BS cough* If they condemn it, don't fund it!
Hey you're not talking about same incident here! Of course your links say other as they are not the news Onion Pirates and I were talking about.
THIS is the story we're talking about
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3708918.stm

First of all, the Israeli's were given land in Palestine. They were not meant to take control, but they did. Ok, fair enough. Though surely the Palestinians are allowed to defend their own land?! Not that they had much to defend with anyway, stick and stones more like it (if that).

Suicide bombing is a means of "defense"? Or maybe you were talking about the actual war in 48. Yeah, let's read about those "sticks and stones", shall we?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/1948_War.html

The Jews won their war of independence with minimal help from the West. In fact, they won despite efforts to undermine their military strength.

Although the United States vigorously supported the partition resolution, the State Department did not want to provide the Jews with the means to defend themselves. "Otherwise," Undersecretary of State Robert Lovett argued, "the Arabs might use arms of U.S. origin against Jews, or Jews might use them against Arabs."14 Consequently, on December 5, 1947, the U.S. imposed an arms embargo on the region.

Many in the State Department saw the embargo as yet another means of obstructing partition. President Truman nevertheless went along with it hoping it would be a means of averting bloodshed. This was naive given Britain's rejection of Lovett's request to suspend weapons shipments to the Arabs and subsequent agreements to provide additional arms to Iraq and Transjordan.15

The Arabs had no difficulty obtaining all the arms they needed. In fact, Jordan's Arab Legion was armed and trained by the British, and led by a British officer. At the end of 1948 and beginning of 1949, British RAF planes flew with Egyptian squadrons over the Israel-Egypt border. On January 7, 1949, Israeli planes shot down four of the British aircraft.16

The Jews, on the other hand, were forced to smuggle weapons, principally from Czechoslovakia. When Israel declared its independence in May 1948, the army did not have a single cannon or tank. Its air force consisted of nine obsolete planes. Although the Haganah had 60,000 trained fighters, only 18,900 were fully mobilized, armed and prepared for war.17 On the eve of the war, chief of operations Yigael Yadin told David Ben-Gurion: "The best we can tell you is that we have a 50*50 chance."18

Interesting that you mentioned "bias". :rolleyes:

The Palestinian people are oppressed and suffering to this day!

My observation is that both people seem to be suffering. Particularly those average who AREN'T in charge. The ones actually getting killed and maimed.

One example of countless attacks on civilians by the Israeli army is when soldiers shot at a five year old boy, whos father was crouching in front of him, begging them not to take the life of his son!

How about citing a source for that? Maybe a name, a date, a news story?

It's common for the Israeli army to bulldoze the homes and plantations of the Palestinians for no reason at all!

My impression is they usually have reasons. You can disagree with whether the reasons are VALID, but that's not the same thing as saying the reasons don't exist.

I hope you enjoy living in a country that treats it's original citizens like that

Incorrect. Palestinians are not the "original citizens" of Israel, since the state didn't exist (in modern form) until 1948. Also, there are over 1 million Arab citizens of Israel, who, while suffering discrimination, do in many ways have more rights than Palestinians living under Yasser Arafat (or the Hashemites in Jordan) have ever had.

I hope that when you mourn the devestation of the holocaust, you also mourn the traumas which are being inflicted upon the Palestinian people in the present time.

I mourn for all the victims of war. I see the present orgy of violence and destruction as being a profound waste of life and potential. And while there are many people who could be singled out for blame (and there's certainly plenty to go around), I feel that the top culprits are Arafat, Sharon, and Bush.

However- at least Bush and Sharon are leaders of DEMOCRACIES that can vote them out.

I just gave a random example. I gave an attack and a retaliation and you saw the differences.

'Foiled attack'
again, the title suggests that they know more than the rest of the world. They evidently have good cause to believe we're lying.

Heh, as I recall, it was the Arab nations that declared war on Israel, almost as soon as it was born.No. The illegal declaration of Jewish statehood was a declaration of war to the majority of the population in the land.
And if one is looking at a situation, one should always look at the beginning. And the beginning is that the Jews stated an unrightful claim to the land, just as their alleged ancestors had in ancient times claimed the land, based on the word of a god they have invented themselves. And this type of Yahweh-worshippers have always used their god and their alleged preferential position in the eyes of that god to justify deeds and thoughts that would otherwise have been despicable, then and now.
There existed no argument to create a Jewish state except the wish of some Jews to have one, all other "reasons" were just pretext. And the UN made a grave mistake even thinking about ceding land that should have been ruled by those who lived in it to an obscure religious group that was foreign to the land.

We ay be an obscure religion (and we're not) but we gave birth to YOUR religion (I assume you're Christian). You should thank us, instead you go posting baseless, hate-filled crap. When the UN and the ruling power of a plot of land decide to give it to someone, that decison is final.

EDIT: Please delete the name of G-D from your post.

We ay be an obscure religion (and we're not) but we gave birth to YOUR religion (I assume you're Christian). You should thank us, instead you go posting baseless, hate-filled crap. When the UN and the ruling power of a plot of land decide to give it to someone, that decison is final.

EDIT: Please delete the name of G-D from your post.

Wait...So your arguement is: "I'm jewish, so thank me and shut up" ?


:rolleyes:

The actions of Israel were legal until they started building cities on lands that they had waived their right to declare annexed as spoils of defensive war in favour of calling them occupied non-territorial security zones.

But seriously folks, I feel bad for the Palestinians too, they're victims of their own propaganda and a few organizations that refuse to ever make peace. The problem is that the few/many Palesitians who don't want peace are ruining it for the rest. Of course, those in other nations who give aid and comfort to the terrorists are partially at fault as well. Indeed, to say that the Palestinians slaughter innocent civilians because they are hopless and have no other way to express themselves at once ignores the fact that Isreal has made huge concessions in the past and is ready to make many more just as soon as the Palestinians stop killing people (a reasonable request if you ask me). People like Arafat and organizations like Hamas, Hezbullah (forgive the spelling, I just woke up), and the PLO (yes, I said the PLO) are going to do everything they can to destroy Israel and will stop at nothing less.
Personally I don't see the Palestinians right to the land in the first place, after all the British gave the land to the Israelis in 48' and in 67' they got more land from the battles with egypt, syria, and the others. Where do the Palestinians get their right to the land?

Wait...So your arguement is: "I'm jewish, so thank me and shut up" ?


:rolleyes:
No my "arguement" is:
We've been persecuted since the biginning of time by the religion that founded us. We've done more good for the world than bad but no-one remembers it.

How many of you remember that Israel refused to tear down the security wall?
How many of you remember that we single-hanedly destroyed the Iraqi WMD program?
My request is that you stop posting rumors unless you post sources for it. TT if you're reading this, Stormfront is not a source.

i will only note that this poll, by the types of answeres it allows, is biased. I please for more balanced polls in the future.

Wow, a whole discussion on Israel w/o TT!

IMO, Israel does have a right to defend itself - yet I always press making peace over having to destroy an enemy outright.

Sharon is when Israel really took a turn for the worse - I wish a moderate like Begin or Barak was back in power

:sniper: its time we just kill the terrorist bastards.. the jews need someplace to live in peace... If you have not yet been attacked by terrorist just dont make your opinion public because it is 100% irrelevant. As for those who feel their homes have been taken away I understand but there is a whole world for you.. not for the jews... (6 million died) THE KILLING NEEDS TO STOP PERIOD. I say build more walls, because the facts are there in the open... WALLS KEEP THE KILLERS OUT.

:sniper: its time we just kill the terrorist bastards.. the jews need someplace to live in peace... If you have not yet been attacked by terrorist just dont make your opinion public because it is 100% irrelevant. As for those who feel their homes have been taken away I understand but there is a whole world for you.. not for the jews... (6 million died) THE KILLING NEEDS TO STOP PERIOD. I say build more walls, because the facts are there in the open... WALLS KEEP THE KILLERS OUT.
1) I *have* been attacked - my father works in a building right next to the WTC which got damaged in their collapse, so let my opinion be heard.

2) I don't like the Holocaust, yet many of my Jewish friends say that while it should be remembered, too many Jews have degraded themselves into bitching about it rather than really caring

3) And if the killing must stop period, doesn't that mean Israel can't kill terrorists as well as terrorists not killing Israelis?

you people have to admit no matter what side you are on it all just needs to stop. But who will stop, the jews who pretty much rule the country or the terrorist bastards? (which sorry to say are on both sides) Its about time Isreal does some invading again and shows who really has the power and hopefully that will settle the issues. And the terrorists take your damn masks off and fight... not just in isreal, in iraq, afghanistan, everywhere... come out and fight and we will see who will win. I do not know all the facts about isreal and palestine conflict. But when i see terrorists in masks im disgusted, because they dont have the guts to show their faces so its bullshit. So lets just blame Bush who is stopping another 9-11 in the meantime.. that always a good idea.

No. The illegal declaration of Jewish statehood was a declaration of war to the majority of the population in the land.
And if one is looking at a situation, one should always look at the beginning. And the beginning is that the Jews stated an unrightful claim to the land, just as their alleged ancestors had in ancient times claimed the land, based on the word of a god they have invented themselves. And this type of Yahweh-worshippers have always used their god and their alleged preferential position in the eyes of that god to justify deeds and thoughts that would otherwise have been despicable, then and now.

Unlike, say, the other Yahweh-worshippers- Muslims and Christians. No despicable actions from them. Certainly not ones they tried to justify through religion.

And the UN made a grave mistake even thinking about ceding land that should have been ruled by those who lived in it to an obscure religious group that was foreign to the land.

What made them "obscure"?

Israeli actions in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Golan Heights are perfectly legal because Israel got them in the Six Day War which they didn't even start.

Israeli actions in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Golan Heights are perfectly legal because Israel got them in the Six Day War which they didn't even start.

So anything they devise to do to the land or to any people living there is just fine? How wonderfully innocent of you. :)

Israel defended itself, and had ever right to. Israel annexed lands that it had taken in defence, and had every right to. Israel held, without annexation, other lands taken in defence, for the purpose of maintaining a security force over their enemies there until such time as those enemies learned to stop acting like murderous savages, and they had every right to.

Israel then built cities on the land that it had not annexed. They did not have any right to do that, even under their own unilateral declarations.

Goodness. How bloody bias can you get? Open your eyes please and take a look at what is happening in your country.
First of all, the Israeli's were given land in Palestine. They were not meant to take control, but they did. Ok, fair enough. Though surely the Palestinians are allowed to defend their own land?! Not that they had much to defend with anyway, stick and stones more like it (if that).

The Israeli army does not target innocent civilians? What a load of crap.
Hello!
The Palestinian people are oppressed and suffering to this day! They do not have equal opportunities or freedoms.
One example of countless attacks on civilians by the Israeli army is when soldiers shot at a five year old boy, whos father was crouching in front of him, begging them not to take the life of his son!
It's common for the Israeli army to bulldoze the homes and plantations of the Palestinians for no reason at all!

I hope you enjoy living in a country that treats it's original citizens like that, on the basis of their race and religion. I hope that when you mourn the devestation of the holocaust, you also mourn the traumas which are being inflicted upon the Palestinian people in the present time.


Well, if you don't know.
Israel used to be a desert, except for some little towns and villages.
Since Israel became a state/country, they turned it into a thriving nation.

Goodness. How bloody bias can you get? Open your eyes please and take a look at what is happening in your country.
First of all, the Israeli's were given land in Palestine. They were not meant to take control, but they did. Ok, fair enough. Though surely the Palestinians are allowed to defend their own land?! Not that they had much to defend with anyway, stick and stones more like it (if that).

The Israeli army does not target innocent civilians? What a load of crap.
Hello!
The Palestinian people are oppressed and suffering to this day! They do not have equal opportunities or freedoms.
One example of countless attacks on civilians by the Israeli army is when soldiers shot at a five year old boy, whos father was crouching in front of him, begging them not to take the life of his son!
It's common for the Israeli army to bulldoze the homes and plantations of the Palestinians for no reason at all!

I hope you enjoy living in a country that treats it's original citizens like that, on the basis of their race and religion. I hope that when you mourn the devestation of the holocaust, you also mourn the traumas which are being inflicted upon the Palestinian people in the present time.


By the way, do you mourn all the people who have been killed by Palestinian militants who blow themselves up for "The Greater GOOD of the ISLAM".
How can it help if you blow yourself up.
It will only help if you look at it this way : "Come on, let's kill them, then they will certainly not defend themselves and give us our land back... YUP that's the way to go, i know it... i know what to do... i'll blow myself up and kill twenty to thirty people"

Israel was ordained to be "a light to enlighten the Gentiles", to set a high moral example, and teach us the way of the law.

Their brutal actions have forfeited that right.

We do not even see most of their atrocities, our press is so biased. Yesterday MSN had a headline "25 dead in Palestinian clash"; I looked into the story and guess what? 23 of the dead were Palestinian. Funny; you don't get that impression from the headline.


Wow, that's special.
I saw (i'm not sure when) "7 Palestinians Killed in Gaza" and "Israeli troops killed several Palestinians".

By the way, did you see anything in Beslan, did the media show anything after the rescue. They showed some kids running in the street half-naked. Israel's media shows almost everything, even the battle itsself, like the "War in Iraq". So don't tell me the media are covering things up for the benefit of Israel.

So anything they devise to do to the land or to any people living there is just fine? How wonderfully innocent of you. :)

Israel defended itself, and had ever right to. Israel annexed lands that it had taken in defence, and had every right to. Israel held, without annexation, other lands taken in defence, for the purpose of maintaining a security force over their enemies there until such time as those enemies learned to stop acting like murderous savages, and they had every right to.

Israel then built cities on the land that it had not annexed. They did not have any right to do that, even under their own unilateral declarations.So, what you're saying, is that a country who conquers lands of another in a war is not allowed to make cities in it? The US conquered California ofrom Mexico... you're saying all cities in California, the biggset state in the US, are'nt legal?
That's what I understand, at least.

I believe the Golan Heights were conqured and are legally Israeli from the moment the Syrians lost it in their war. From that moment, it was ours the same way the Negev is, or Tel Aviv.

(I live in Israel, if someone is wondering)

So, what you're saying, is that a country who conquers lands of another in a war is not allowed to make cities in it? The US conquered California ofrom Mexico... you're saying all cities in California, the biggset state in the US, are'nt legal?
That's what I understand, at least.

I believe the Golan Heights were conqured and are legally Israeli from the moment the Syrians lost it in their war. From that moment, it was ours the same way the Negev is, or Tel Aviv.

(I live in Israel, if someone is wondering)

No what I am saying (read it) is this:

If a country takes land in a defensive war, they have the right to annex it.

If a country takes land in a defensive war, they have the right to station troops there to keep their enemies in check. They do not have to annex the land in order to have the right to do this.

If a country takes land in a defensive war, and does not declare it annexed, and stations trooops there under the proclaimation that they will occupy this land, without claiming it as their property, until such time as the natives there stop attacking them... they do NOT have the right to build cities there.

(I have lived there as well, in case you're wondering.)

No what I am saying (read it) is this:

If a country takes land in a defensive war, they have the right to annex it.

If a country takes land in a defensive war, they have the right to station troops there to keep their enemies in check. They do not have to annex the land in order to have the right to do this.

If a country takes land in a defensive war, and does not declare it annexed, and stations trooops there under the proclaimation that they will occupy this land, without claiming it as their property, until such time as the natives there stop attacking them... they do NOT have the right to build cities there.

(I have lived there as well, in case you're wondering.)Israel didn't declare WEst Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan and Sinai as its lands after the war? Are you sure? *confsued*

What do you call a defensive war? Israel attacked first in the six day war. (I saw you liked sources... here - http://i-cias.com/e.o/sixdaywr.htm )

Israel didn't declare WEst Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan and Sinai as its lands after the war? Are you sure? *confsued*

What do you call a defensive war? Israel attacked first in the six day war. (I saw you liked sources... here - http://i-cias.com/e.o/sixdaywr.htm )

Isreal declared Jerusalem and the Golan Hights officially parts of Israel after the Six Day War, and some other parts. Find me any official statement of annexation of the West Bank and Gaza? How are these parts shown on your maps? The government's maps, not the Ultra Right rabbis'.

Yes, the Six Day War was defensive. War had been declared, ports were blockaded, and missiles were being fired from the Golan Hights as enemy armies massed on the borders.

If a man who has vowed to kill you is coming at you with a dagger, do you have to wait until he gets to you before you shoot him? Israel may have made the first GROUND attacks, but it was still a defensive war.

correction: Jerusalem came earlier, except for East Jerusalem. sorry.

We ay be an obscure religion (and we're not) but we gave birth to YOUR religion (I assume you're Christian). You should thank us, instead you go posting baseless, hate-filled crap. When the UN and the ruling power of a plot of land decide to give it to someone, that decison is final.
You gave birth to the worst concept of god-to-human relationship imaginable. There is no need to thank any of you for anything. The concept of god created by Moses out of numerous deities of the time and region has only brought bloodshed and ignorance into the world. And even the Bible tells that in the name of Yahweh murder, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, and many other cruelties were committed. And if a god values the worth of a human over that of another based on that human's descent and faith, then this god is not fit to be the universal authority.
EDIT: Please delete the name of G-D from your post.What name of god? Yahweh is only the name for a conglomerate of ideas about what god could be.
However- at least Bush and Sharon are leaders of DEMOCRACIES that can vote them out.Germany in 1932 also was a democracy. So what? Democracy only means "rule of the plebs", so if the population in a land has a twisted idea of what's right, then one should not wonder about who they elect as their leaders.

Well, if you don't know.
Israel used to be a desert, except for some little towns and villages.
Since Israel became a state/country, they turned it into a thriving nation.And that is an argument for what?

Personally I don't see the Palestinians right to the land in the first place, after all the British gave the land to the Israelis in 48' and in 67' they got more land from the battles with egypt, syria, and the others. Where do the Palestinians get their right to the land?What? The Palestinians were already living in the land for centuries. So if the Bristish just gave away the land YOU are living on, you also had no right to the land in the first place?

So, what you're saying, is that a country who conquers lands of another in a war is not allowed to make cities in it? The US conquered California ofrom Mexico... you're saying all cities in California, the biggset state in the US, are'nt legal?
That's what I understand, at least.

I believe the Golan Heights were conqured and are legally Israeli from the moment the Syrians lost it in their war. From that moment, it was ours the same way the Negev is, or Tel Aviv.

(I live in Israel, if someone is wondering)Macciavelli is alive an thriving!
So the use of force makes its own consequences legal? So the Holocaust wasn't that bad after all?

Do you know the meaning of what Macchiavelli even said?

What has the holocaust got to do with the Golan heights?

Please clarify, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about...

The holocaust was legal now???

Do you know the meaning of what Macchiavelli even said?

What has the holocaust got to do with the Golan heights?

Please clarify, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about...

The holocaust was legal now???

way to miss the point.

Ankher, I requested that you remove the name of G-D from your posts. You refused and I have requested the mods to do it instead. Please respect other peoples beliefs in the future.

Ankher, I requested that you remove the name of G-D from your posts. You refused and I have requested the mods to do it instead. Please respect other peoples beliefs in the future.

Yeah.. we know how concerned you are about respecting other people's beliefs :rolleyes:

Yeah.. we know how concerned you are about respecting other people's beliefs :rolleyes:
Name 1 time, just one, where I insulted someone's belief?
I made a polite request, the only reason he should deny it is to be offensive and provocative.

Ankher, I requested that you remove the name of G-D from your posts. You refused and I have requested the mods to do it instead. Please respect other peoples beliefs in the future.Not in this case. Since you don't own god, you can't tell anyone what to do with the name.

Do you know the meaning of what Macchiavelli even said?
What has the holocaust got to do with the Golan heights?
Please clarify, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about...
The holocaust was legal now???Damask Rose was implying that having the possibility to do something already gives a moral justification to actually do it. That's Macciavellism.

Was there any qualification that people had to know the law before answering this thread? Or is "legal" now a synonymous with "stuff I like"?

Was there any qualification that people had to know the law before answering this thread? Or is "legal" now a synonymous with "stuff I like"?
All this about the Golan heights.
IMHO they have more right to the Golan Heights than the US has to Texas.
There was a war, they won, they took some land to make thier home more secure, it has happend for thousands of years, that's how half the borders of europe were established.
No comment on what else has gone on, but some one sits in a location attacking my nation, I expect my gov to put a stop to it and make sure it does not happen again.
As I would expect the US to be unhappy about nukes being placed in Cuba, or if Mexico allowed a Texas revolutionary army to shell the US from Mexico. Actions would be taken to prevent it.

What are we doing in Lebanon? I must have missed that particular news broadcast, same for the Golan Heights. As for the West Bank and Gaza, all we do is retaliate, we never start the trouble.
Take today, Israeli forces are massing outside Gaza, the reason, not because we want to "drive the Palestinans innto the sea" as they wish to do to us but because of a rocket strike killing two lttle kids in Shderot. We only retaliate and that is fine.

"You only retaliate" Moron, how do you know who shot the rocket?
Morons answer: "well, we just kill 60 person, children included and destroy a big part of a villages houses, see, stateterrorisme is our answer".

"You only retaliate" Moron, how do you know who shot the rocket?
Morons answer: "well, we just kill 60 person, children included and destroy a big part of a villages houses, see, stateterrorisme is our answer".
You call me a moron yet you can't spell terrorism, don't know the plural for person (people) and try and answer for me.
EDIT: Yes, Hamas.