terrorism and gun control
Take for example the planes used during the September 11th attack in the US. If everyone onboard those planes had weapons what do you imagine would be the outcomes?
I am debating the gun control issue, because the laws set in motion may work to remove a handgun from everyday citizens, but you can never take away the handgun away from every criminal.
Faithfull-freedom
30-09-2004, 19:26
Take for example the planes used during the September 11th attack in the US. If everyone onboard those planes had weapons what do you imagine would be the outcomes?
I am debating the gun control issue, because the laws set in motion may work to remove a handgun from everyday citizens, but you can never take away the handgun away from every criminal.
It could of been the same outcome or something less fatal, it no doubt can improve the odds of survival. On the same note if all of the people had firearms but had no understanding of backdrop or formal training (regulated by historical meaning) from their father or elsewhere (organization such as military, police, NRA etc..), it would most likely end the same way. Also less penetrating rounds and so on. So with some kind of understanding with the ones that have the firearms (currently the only ones that we know to have this understanding is Air Marshalls). I believe they should allow any officer of the law that is entrusted with protecting and serving as a vested interest in having an option to carry a firearm on a plane after the proper training (regulation) in such a confined and delicate space.
Because flight is regulated (todays definition of regulated) by a Federal Authority, they would need to set up a Federal program (or state qualified)that trains (again regulated in original intent) honorable Americans a right to be trusted with protection of that sort. I bet there would be quite a few states that would go for it for sure. But I am fairly sure the majority would be against it at this time.
If everyone was allowed to carry a firearm on the plane then surely the terrorists would have had guns...
And post 911 the chances are there would have been more panic shootings if everyone had a gun.
BoomChakalaka
30-09-2004, 20:06
As pro-gun as I am, I think airplanes are one of those places where guns really don't belong. Any place where an errant bullet can depressurize a flying container full of people is a bad place to have firearms.
Grave_n_idle
30-09-2004, 20:07
Okay... let's go through this slowly, so those thinking with their guns can understand....
A terrorist on the 9/11 flight want's to hijack the flight.
Scenario 1:
He gets up and walks along the length of the aircraft (from wherever he is sitting) and threatens the steward/ess to open the door to the cabin - let's assume he does this hidden from the rest of the passengers. The terrified steward/ess opens the door and the terrorist enters the cockpit - possibly armed (definitely armed if everyone is allowed a gun), and with the pilot facing away from him.
Scenario 2:
The terrorist goes to the front of the aircraft and threatens the steward/ess to open the door. This time, we imagine that the passnegers see what he is doing. Several heroic types leap up and open fire, towards the terrorist, the steward/ess and the cockpit...
Scenario 3:
The 'terrorist' gets up and starts to head to the front of the aircraft... one of the other passengers assumes that the walking man MUST be a terrorist and opens fire. Only, in this instance, there is no terrorist on this flight, and guns on aircraft just accounted for the unlawful killing of an innocent who just wanted to stretch his legs.
Scenario 4:
The terrorist gets up and starts walking towards the cockpit. One of the other passengers guesses (correctly, this time) that the walking man must be a terrorist, and opens fire. In this situation, we have someone firing a handgun ACROSS a pressurised aircraft, and statistically in the direction of the means of propulsion.
Scenario 5:
The terrorist gets up and starts walking towards the cockpit. Eight passengers guess (correctly, this time) that the walking man must be a terrorist, and open fire. In this situation, we have a cross-fire, in a pressurised aircraft filled with lots of soft targets.
I'm looking for a statistically feasible situation where arming all the passengers of a commercial flight would be a GOOD idea...
BoomChakalaka
30-09-2004, 20:10
The door can't be opened from the outside. Only the pilots (who are safely on the other side) can open it.
Von Witzleben
30-09-2004, 20:16
Take for example the planes used during the September 11th attack in the US. If everyone onboard those planes had weapons what do you imagine would be the outcomes?
I imagine at least one of them would have punctured the hull of the plane. Never a good idea while in flight.
Grave_n_idle
30-09-2004, 20:24
The door can't be opened from the outside. Only the pilots (who are safely on the other side) can open it.
The steward/ess doesn't have to touch the door to open it... they can persuade the crew to open it from their side... which the steward/ess may be only to happy to do, if they have a gun in his/her face.
Chess Squares
30-09-2004, 20:32
Take for example the planes used during the September 11th attack in the US. If everyone onboard those planes had weapons what do you imagine would be the outcomes?
rapid decompression?
Maybe I should have presented a question to the criminals of the group.
Which plane would you hijack; the one where all 300 passengers have a gun or that passively libreal one over there?
Von Witzleben
30-09-2004, 20:46
Maybe I should have presented a question to the criminals of the group.
Which plane would you hijack; the one where all 300 passengers have a gun or that passively libreal one over there?
Wouldn't matter if your on a suicide mission.
Eutrusca
30-09-2004, 20:51
I don't think it's a good idea to have a gun in anything in flight, particularly if it's pressurized!
The steps taken to protect airplanes since 9/11 are a step in the right direction. They have a long way to go.
Having said that, I think it's a really, REALLY bad idea to press for "gun control" ( read: confiscation ) when there's a chance of terrorist action other than on airplanes. Disarm the people just when they need weapons most? What's wrong with this picture?
BoomChakalaka
30-09-2004, 21:17
The steward/ess doesn't have to touch the door to open it... they can persuade the crew to open it from their side... which the steward/ess may be only to happy to do, if they have a gun in his/her face.
Theoretically the pilots aren't supposed to open the door at all during flight, for exactly this reason. From what I've seen though, not all the airlines have installed these doors yet.