NationStates Jolt Archive

Just jumpin' on the bandwagon. :D

baaaaaah

How's Jesus?

Do you dance around a fire nekkid?

Do you dance around a fire nekkid?
Have you ever burned your pubes dancing around the fire naked?

After death for you:
reincarnation or some kind of spirit-world?

How's Jesus?

Doing just fine without me. :)

Do you dance around a fire nekkid?

Nah ... I wear bells. I do garden naked, though.

Have you ever burned your pubes dancing around the fire naked?

Nah ... but I did lose some leg hair once.

After death for you:
reincarnation or some kind of spirit-world?

A little bit of both.

you've got to be kidding me..... :rolleyes:

you've got to be kidding me..... :rolleyes:

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... newp.

If you roll your eyes hard enough, can you see your own brain?

A little bit of both.

In the name of curiosity, care to explain?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... newp.

If you roll your eyes hard enough, can you see your own brain?

yeeeeeeep

In the name of curiosity, care to explain?

Only the bits of me that need to come back will come back. Those bits would be the one that require additional learning. Whatever was left lacking in this life. For instance, if I did not love enough in this life, then the part of me that loves will come back around and try again.

Eventually, I will be complete.

yeeeeeeep

Neat!

Only the bits of me that need to come back will come back. Those bits would be the one that require additional learning. Whatever was left lacking in this life. For instance, if I did not love enough in this life, then the part of me that loves will come back around and try again.

Eventually, I will be complete.

Cool. Next question:
As a pagan, you don't really have to worship in any specific way, but some things are relatively constant among pagans.

Like the mainstream population of pagans, you do worship a male god and a female goddess? If so, which two and why them? If not, why do you consider yourself a pagan instead of a wiccan?

Have you ever burned your pubes dancing around the fire naked?

are you asking everyone this? or was it meant for the Brit

Like the mainstream population of pagans, you do worship a male god and a female goddess? If so, which two and why them? If not, why do you consider yourself a pagan instead of a wiccan?

Neither, actually. I don't believe in a single godhead, but rather a series of spirit guides. I believe everything has a spirit (or soul, if you will) that should be respected.

I have little patience for Wiccans. Not that there's anything wrong with being Wiccan, but the majority that I've met (and I've met a *lot*) seem to think that their "Rule of Three" applies to everyone - no matter what their religion - yet refuses to acknowledge that any other religions' law might apply to them.

But, then, I tend to find Wicca as a rebellion against Christian parents. Not always, mind you, but quite often. I practice the religion of my father and his father and so on.

I call myself Pagan because it's easier. I could say Caddo or, to put a finer point on it, call myself a Smokedancer, but there aren't too many people who know what that means outside my tribe.

Do you enjoy stealing questions?

Neither, actually. I don't believe in a single godhead, but rather a series of spirit guides. I believe everything has a spirit (or soul, if you will) that should be respected.

I have little patience for Wiccans. Not that there's anything wrong with being Wiccan, but the majority that I've met (and I've met a *lot*) seem to think that their "Rule of Three" applies to everyone - no matter what their religion - yet refuses to acknowledge that any other religions' law might apply to them.

But, then, I tend to find Wicca as a rebellion against Christian parents. Not always, mind you, but quite often. I practice the religion of my father and his father and so on.

I call myself Pagan because it's easier. I could say Caddo or, to put a finer point on it, call myself a Smokedancer, but there aren't too many people who know what that means outside my tribe.

and where does your tribe hail from?

Keruvalia, i just want to say that to hear someone like u on the net say that kind of stuff is like a breath of fresh air. im an australian pagan and i agree about wiccans, some of the ones i know are okay, but the majority i've met seem rather intent on the three fold law applying to everyone.
its rare to find people, especcially where i live that are either open about or accepting about any type of paganism.
what sort of tribe by the way?

sorry i thought this said ask a pigeon i was gonna ask it why it steels my chips in oxford city centre for?!

Just jumpin' on the bandwagon. :D

baaaaaah

Where?

Do you enjoy stealing questions?

tee hee ... sorry ... couldn't resist. :D

and where does your tribe hail from?

We're from the NE Texas, Northern Louisiana, Southern Arkansas area. All those pine forests and great farming lands.

sorry i thought this said ask a pigeon i was gonna ask it why it steels my chips in oxford city centre for?!

*snicker*

what sort of tribe by the way?

Native American, Caddo tribe. More specifically, I am Hasinais. The Caddo comprise the Hasinais, Tejas, Kadohadacho and a smattering of smaller tribes.

You can get some info here: http://www.texasindians.com/caddo.htm

If you're so inclined.

wicked, so i take it from what u've been typing that you follow the original ways and beliefs of your tribe (correct me on that if its not a quite right assumption), im really impressed, in australia a lot of the indigenous cultures almost got completely wiped out by missionaries and a governmental process of assimilation and extermination, but the culture is still there and exists mostly in some more out of the way places. but yeah, Horray for the old ways! :)

I give you credit for keeping your tribes' tradition alive for so long. Congratulations.

wicked, so i take it from what u've been typing that you follow the original ways and beliefs of your tribe (correct me on that if its not a quite right assumption), im really impressed, in australia a lot of the indigenous cultures almost got completely wiped out by missionaries and a governmental process of assimilation and extermination, but the culture is still there and exists mostly in some more out of the way places. but yeah, Horray for the old ways! :)


They attempted to wipe us out in the US. When they couldn't complete genocide, they tried to ship us off to reservations and wipe us out economicaly.

Sadly that worked extremely well, until many tribes were allowed to build casinos and use the revenue to gain economic independence.

It's still a struggle on many levels, but it's a lot better than it has been in the past.

yeah, they did australia a little differently, in the late 1800's (just b4 asutralia became a single nation instead of seperate colonies) a message was sent to england department of foreign affairs saying that it was impossible to assimilate the aboriginal people and that it would be impossible to wipe them out and that their culture was unique and should be protected, then australia federated and that was forgotten, they were only recognised as people (not flora and fauna in the 1970/80's and given the vote in the early 80's. they were given land rights in the early 90's and then the govt. made a law that almost annulled the high court decision that gave it to them in the first place. australian government has done some pretty horrible stuff. and the aboriginals are supported in some ways, but not others, its disgraceful. but yeah thats just how it is. i hope that it will change, at the moment they are pushing for the primeminister to say sorry for past injustices, but he keeps refusing. but yeah, that about sums up a little bit of how i feel about it.

If you roll your eyes hard enough, can you see your own brain?
Sorry i havent got one. :(

(AFAIK) Samhain (from which Halloween is derived) is celebrated on October 31 and Beltane (from which Walpurgis Night is derived) is observed on April 30.

I have always wondered: since both of these events are (in pagan belief) tied to season equinoxes (again AFAIK) - are they observed on different dates by pagans in the Southern Hemisohere than pagans in the Northern Hemisphere?

Neither, actually. I don't believe in a single godhead, but rather a series of spirit guides. I believe everything has a spirit (or soul, if you will) that should be respected.

I have little patience for Wiccans. Not that there's anything wrong with being Wiccan, but the majority that I've met (and I've met a *lot*) seem to think that their "Rule of Three" applies to everyone - no matter what their religion - yet refuses to acknowledge that any other religions' law might apply to them.

But, then, I tend to find Wicca as a rebellion against Christian parents. Not always, mind you, but quite often. I practice the religion of my father and his father and so on.

I call myself Pagan because it's easier. I could say Caddo or, to put a finer point on it, call myself a Smokedancer, but there aren't too many people who know what that means outside my tribe.

Go on, Keruvalia, convert to Christianity! Accept Jesus as your Lord!
I dare you!

{QUOTE=New Fubaria}(AFAIK) Samhain (from which Halloween is derived) is celebrated on October 31 and Beltane (from which Walpurgis Night is derived) is observed on April 30.

I have always wondered: since both of these events are (in pagan belief) tied to season equinoxes (again AFAIK) - are they observed on different dates by pagans in the Southern Hemisohere than pagans in the Northern Hemisphere?{/QUOTE}

Anyone know this? Please? :)

I'm actually quite determined to get an aswer on the above question...come on pagans, I want to know! :p

Yes, it's common for Pagans in the Southern hemisphere to 'flip' the calendar dates of the seasonal holidays, so that the spring holidays come in spring and the winter ones in winter, etc.

The ritual calendar's based on the seasons, not the other way around. :)

Yes, it's common for Pagans in the Southern hemisphere to 'flip' the calendar dates of the seasonal holidays, so that the spring holidays come in spring and the winter ones in winter, etc.

The ritual calendar's based on the seasons, not the other way around. :)Thanks, appreciate it. A friend of mine and I have argued this fact for a while now. Looks like I was right...he owes me a beer! :)

*resident Druid checking in* Any questions?

I have little patience for Wiccans. Not that there's anything wrong with being Wiccan, but the majority that I've met (and I've met a *lot*) seem to think that their "Rule of Three" applies to everyone - no matter what their religion - yet refuses to acknowledge that any other religions' law might apply to them.

There is logical evidence for this somewhat - it must be said - arrogant attitude of everything in three's. A common saying certainly in the UK is 'all things come in three'. In other words, 2 people die close together and you just sit and wait for the next one to happen. 2 injurys close together and you wonder when you are likely to crack your skull on the cupboard door, etc etc etc. I can't say for any other nations, but for the UK and Ireland it would appear to have stemmed from the days when the Celts held sway over most of the 2 lands. The Celts seemed fixated on the the idea of 3, they were believed to have referred to triumvirates of Gods and Goddesses, ritual sacrifices (inc Human ones - it did happen) appeared to be carried out with 3 seperate and entirely different killing blows.


X

Oh, and just because Wicca, particularly of the paperback-book stripe, appeals to a lot of people rebelling against Christian parents, doesn't mean that's what Wicca *is.*

Even if there's maybe a lot of good reasons for such rebellion.

Wicca, nonetheless, isn't really something one is going to fully develop a mature view of in between high school, and even college classes. It's mostly the kids who actually are struggling for their identity that can come off according to that stereotype.

Wiccans believe the Threefold law *does* apply to everyone. It's more like a law of physics or karma: it's not moralistic law of some authority, it's just an observation of how things work in the world.

It's not really, "If you do something bad, some Power's going to spank you threefold," It's *everything we do has effects:* and things tend to snowball, you get it back, not because it's *bad,*
...you get it back because you *did* something.

That means *we* decide the goodness or badness of any given thing. (this really isn't as hard to do without moralistic laws as they tell you,) ...and we certainly, in our view of the world, have a great incentive to *get it right.*

So, if someone's snooty about it, well, you know what to tell them. :)

Cool. Next question:
As a pagan, you don't really have to worship in any specific way, but some things are relatively constant among pagans.

Like the mainstream population of pagans, you do worship a male god and a female goddess? If so, which two and why them? If not, why do you consider yourself a pagan instead of a wiccan?

I don't know if you're around, but I'll answer this too... 'cause it's different for a lot of us (and I don't see any other druids around here *looks around*).

I don't worship a god or goddess. Many druids do, but in my order (OBOD) it isn't really required. I see the natural order of things as a source of education and constancy. That's what I defer to. (Notice I didn't say worship... by my thinking, nature, the universe, and the tendencies therein are normal but beautiful. Hence the need for reverence, respect, and honor, not necessarily just worship.) I say Pagan instead of Wiccan because I do not practice Wicca. I respect other traditions (admittedly, I don't have all the answers... I know what rings true for me, but everyone builds their own truth as truth is very subjective).

Pagan, to get technical a minute, is a term that refers to any non-christian. Despite certain negative connotations, I find it to be a less confusing term than "Druid" can be. I'm very comfortable sharing a title (pagan) with my local pagan community. Here, they're a pretty friendly group.

Just jumpin' on the bandwagon. :D

baaaaaah

What kind of pagan are you? I know its cliched, but are you wiccan?

I'm an odd combinatin of religions. Just think Presbyterian/Pagan. Hard to understand, but i'm still smoothing the edges off of it.

They attempted to wipe us out in the US. When they couldn't complete genocide, they tried to ship us off to reservations and wipe us out economicaly.

Sadly that worked extremely well, until many tribes were allowed to build casinos and use the revenue to gain economic independence.

It's still a struggle on many levels, but it's a lot better than it has been in the past.

I live near lots of reservation land. There are only a few tribes here that have been able to maintain their old traditions. I have a huge amount of respect for them. My great-grandmother's mother was from one of the tribes that scattered and went into hiding (around the central US region... several hid by the rivers, many of the young women married white men to avoid detection... my great, great grandmother was one of these). Oddly, she bore four daughters. Only one inherited her black eyes and coarse hair, and that one was barren.

I am officially impressed and hold a deep respect for you and yours.

Question for any of you who call yourself pagan.

Do you realize that pagan is not a religion?

Pagans are simply anyone who is not a christian, muslim or jew. Meaning that while not generally thought of as such, as a Zen Buddhist I am also pagan. As are wiccans, druids, etc. Even catholics are pagan according to some (though that's a completely separate discussion which should not be explored here)

For those of you who do realize this, what religion are you actually?

Question for any of you who call yourself pagan.

Do you realize that pagan is not a religion?

Pagans are simply anyone who is not a christian, muslim or jew. Meaning that while not generally thought of as such, as a Zen Buddhist I am also pagan. As are wiccans, druids, etc. Even catholics are pagan according to some (though that's a completely separate discussion which should not be explored here)

For those of you who do realize this, what religion are you actually?

Who gave you this definition of "pagan"?

I'm failing to see this perceived connection between the number three being about completion and the unity of seeming opposites, and "arrogance," though.

Yes, it's an underlying current of many culture that everything happens in threes and on three levels. Arguably, it could be another number, but three works. It's not like we're issued Karma Meters: the notion is that for every opposition there's a third thing that unifies it.

If anything could be called *arrogant,* a Celtic Pagan might find that the *dualism* of the religions of the Book, is *really* arrogant. Labelling and judging everything as good or evil, right or wrong, God or Satan, For Us or Damned, Light Or Darkness, etc.

Three? You could say it's about how what you do affects *you,* ...it affects what you affect, and it affects the world around you.

There's three right there.

You could say it affects things physically, in the minds of those who experience it, and the spirit world.

You could say, What goes around, ...goes around, comes around, and *stays around*.

I don't find that *arrogant,* it's just a worldview. One that's not unfamiliar, as pointed out, to the common wisdom of the British isles.

Who gave you this definition of "pagan"?

I've heard it a few places, the easiest would be simply looking in the dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pagan

{QUOTE=New Fubaria}(AFAIK) Samhain (from which Halloween is derived) is celebrated on October 31 and Beltane (from which Walpurgis Night is derived) is observed on April 30.

I have always wondered: since both of these events are (in pagan belief) tied to season equinoxes (again AFAIK) - are they observed on different dates by pagans in the Southern Hemisohere than pagans in the Northern Hemisphere?{/QUOTE}

Anyone know this? Please? :)

samhain is halloween, the autumn equinox.
beltane is the spring or vernal equinox.

Why are you pagans celebrating celtic festivals? What about all the other gazillions of pagans who weren't celts? Do you celebrate their festivals too?

Oh, and 'Pagan' is an umbrella term for a number of polytheistic religions based on the indigenous traditions of Europe.

The term 'pagan' came into use by Christians as synonymous with 'unbeliever' or 'infidel,' since they pretty much didn't care about the cultural distinctions between various kinds of people they didn't like.

'Pagan Rome' is a similar misnomer, since the *urban Roman polytheists* first used the term 'pagani' to describe followers of the rural agrarian practices of the countryside. (that's what a 'paganus' is, actually, a country-dweller.)

(Neo)Pagan traditions encompass something of a diversity of these old traditions in revival... (that's Pagan with a capital P, btw) Wicca is a Pagan religion, as are many others. One who doesn't claim a particular tradition may just say 'Pagan.'

Get it?

Why 'Celtic' festivals? They're in the culture where Wicca came from, which is one of the real pioneers of the current Neopagan revival.

(not all the Wiccan holidays are strictly Celtic, anyway. Ostara has a lot of Germanic traditions that got imported, for instance)

There are Pagans who have other ancestries, and they may well celebrate their own ancestral holidays, but, frankly, there's a lot of similarities in the intent of many of these festivals, so the Wiccan 'Wheel of the Year' has caught on. I have some heritage from the Classical world, and from time to time may celebrate certain feast days.

Nordic Pagan (they prefer to be called 'Heathens') groups celebrate in their own time, though they do in fact share certain holidays with others.

Other specific traditions may have their own ritual calendars, and certainly holidays. The Wiccan ones are based on anciently measurable things like the equinoxes and cross-quarter days, and thus are found all over the place. If you account for calendar changes, you find Yule and Christmas line up, since the early Christians decided to move Jesus' birthday to coincide with a Roman Pagan festival (the shepherd in the Jesus birth story places his actual birthday in another time of year) ...probably this is because the Saturnalia incorporated a sort of ritual misrule where the normal social order was reversed and the masters served the servants. This made it a nice subversive choice, considering what JC represented to the slaves.

So, no, we aren't *all* celebrating 'Celtic holidays.' I'm Irish, for the most part, and I live in an English-derived culture, so I personally see no conflict.

I'm an odd combinatin of religions. Just think Presbyterian/Pagan. Hard to understand, but i'm still smoothing the edges off of it.

I know plenty of Christian druids in my order... some of them are actually ministers. It's all got to do with whether the two belief frameworks are compatible (OBOD leaves a lot to philisophical debate, and that makes it pretty compatible with a lot of people's existing religions... just adds something else).

Why are you pagans celebrating celtic festivals? What about all the other gazillions of pagans who weren't celts? Do you celebrate their festivals too?

I, for one, celebrate largely Celtic festivals because my particular branch of paganism (Druidry) happens to be of Celtic descent. My hubbie is of Asatru tradition and celebrates differently. It all depends... if my great-great grandmother had been able to maintain her traditions, I would probably be celebrating my druidry, his Asatru holidays, AND her Native festivals. 'Though I have noticed some similarities between the basic premises of Druidry and several different Native American traditions (animal and nature spirituality, for one). They're very different, but they share similar premises, it seems.

[please don't flame, it's just an observation]

To give some perspective, from a rather extreme eclectic pagan: I don't celebrate festivals, and I believe the law of three is there because someone was wise enough to give this powerful psychological suggestion to the world. Things react when you do things, in spellcraft or otherwise, and if you're uncareful, this can harm you, but it violates conservation and entropy laws left and right to say that things come back three-fold in all cases.

I take a more direct (I believe) approach to morals. Fear and ignorance is why we harm others. The fear of lack of control is at the core of all fears, and we have no control that can't be taken away, which makes the fear even more persistant. Fear is the one thing that can take control of our minds, which is all we really have, so fear must be resisted, always, until it is conquered.

After death, your consciousness is free to explore the universe, and expand. Fear is finally absent, as it is purely a biological reaction.

I'll be hovering about, feel free to ask questions. :p

No, the Threefold Law doesn't violate any physical laws, (well, maybe unless it really *has to,* (wink) ) ...it's a framework to understand how we perceive what happens in the world around us and always *has.*

Force *and* form, remember?

The further down the causal chain things go, the less identifiable the form of the original cause is.

Action is like throwing a stone into a pond: many ripples, they propagate out, reflect back, eventually that form fades into the background.

But nothing's lost, except maybe entropy's little tax.

See above about my take on the threefold in the Threefold Return.

No need to rewrite physics for it, you just need to think what's really happening. :)

Oh, hi, Wrestia, BTW. Good points, by the way.

Someone asked about our beliefs about what happens after death: if you had to characterize a Pagan belief, lotsa things can happen. Most of us recognize reincarnation as common, often with a rest in what we call the Summerlands, a rather timeless place along the lines of the Elysian Fields or Tir Na Nog, till, eventually the soul learns all it can, then maybe moves on to another kind of existence. It's not unlike some ideas of Buddhism, though there usually isn't a big hurry to 'get off the Wheel,' ...since we embrace life and challenge, we don't generally look at reincarnation as a big negative to be escaped, as a rule. The big concern is often that if you don't learn what you're supposed to in a given life, you'll be drawn back to similar experiences and have to 'repeat the course.'

'Enlightenment is inevitable' is a phrase that's come up. :) I like that.

Anyway. these are gross generalizations: ask three Pagans a question and you'll get five answers, we say. :)

Anyway. these are gross generalizations: ask three Pagans a question and you'll get five answers, we say. :)

I completely agree with you. If someone were to ask me what happens after death, I'd have to say, "I don't know yet..." I can tell them one thing. What living thing just ends? I challenge anyone to list one. Even when a tree is felled, it turns to compote and nourishes the earth. New growth springs up. Even after a forest fire, the forest is rebuilt. Nothing stops. I just don't know what form the regeneration takes after we die. *shrugs*

Well, that's certainly part of the belief system in general... Cyclical view of life, rather than a linear one.

Frankly, the fact that reincarnation happens was never something I associated purely with Paganism, ...despite a rather rationalist bent, I was born, (more like plagued, in some instances) with past-life memories that I was able to verify significant parts of, before I'd even *heard* of, in my case, Wicca.

It *is* one of the reasons Christianity never connected for me, even as a child. It kinda confused me. So, of course, I looked into it. Ended up putting it in the category of things like Santa Claus that people believe in cause it's fun or something.

Note I'm not insisting reincarnation is the *only* thing that happens, but I'm damn sure it happens. There's not much freakier than looking up your own obituary.

No, skeptics, I'm not gonna try and prove it, cause I could only offer what's evidence to *me,* but which as far as you're concerned, I could have looked up ahead of time.

One thing I think about a Pagan POV, is that the fear of death is no bigger than it biologically needs to be. We can afford to entertain diverse opinions because I think there *is* some faith there that whatever happens, it's what's supposed to happen, and that's OK.

Frankly, the fact that reincarnation happens was never something I associated purely with Paganism, ...despite a rather rationalist bent, I was born, (more like plagued, in some instances) with past-life memories that I was able to verify significant parts of, before I'd even *heard* of, in my case, Wicca.

You and I share a boat, my friend... except that my path is that of the Druid instead of Wicca. Christianity was not a fit for me either (even at a young age). Regardless of the fact that I remember 'being' before this, I'm not certain when the 're-being' ends or what happens after that. (I somehow get the impression that we don't simply keep recycling... we've got to move onto a different state sometime, right?)

Go on, Keruvalia, convert to Christianity! Accept Jesus as your Lord!
I dare you!


Nah ... there's no appeal in it.

samhain is halloween, the autumn equinox.
beltane is the spring or vernal equinox.

Why are you pagans celebrating celtic festivals? What about all the other gazillions of pagans who weren't celts? Do you celebrate their festivals too?

I dunno ... I don't do either. If I'm invited to Samhain or Beltane celebrations, I'll generally go because they're fun, but I don't actively celebrate either.

The major festival for me is saying goodnight to Bear, which happens on the first full moon after the first frost (usually ends up occuring in late December or early January). Being primarily a farming tribe, there is a celebration of the harvest, of course, which is somewhat similar to Thanksgiving (somewhat) and that's where boys who have reached the age of manhood (14) over the summer go on their first hunt. There's a small, but rather unimportant, festival in late Spring that is basically to say goodbye to the flowers and welcome the new fruits.

As for formal names ... newp ... the Caddo words translated would be: "Awakened Fruit", "Harvest", and "Sleeping Bear Moon".

No, the Threefold Law doesn't violate any physical laws, (well, maybe unless it really *has to,* (wink) ) ...it's a framework to understand how we perceive what happens in the world around us and always *has.*

The further down the causal chain things go, the less identifiable the form of the original cause is.

Action is like throwing a stone into a pond: many ripples, they propagate out, reflect back, eventually that form fades into the background.

But nothing's lost, except maybe entropy's little tax.

I understand what you're saying here, in fact the concept of non-destruction is an integral part of my beliefs, and as long as the force remains the same, split into three different effects, it's reasonable. Some people, however, think that things come back to you with three times as much force. Not lost in this case, but rather gained.

I could go into a complicated debate on the energy arts, or we could take this to private messages, or you could accept that I've been practicing and studying for seven years plus, and know a little bit of what I'm talking about. :p Any way is fine with me, I enjoy discussion.

No need to rewrite physics for it, you just need to think what's really happening.

I'm one of those who haven't given up on convincing scientists that magic isn't anathema to truth. I see too much that makes sense in the scientific world, and an entire world which is unknown to most due to barriers within their own mind. If science finally accepts that there is a quantum influence due to consciousness, and that the way and mindset in which you approach certain parts of the world can well influence the outcome of study, there -will- be a need to redefine some things.

As for formal names ... newp ... the Caddo words translated would be: "Awakened Fruit", "Harvest", and "Sleeping Bear Moon".

Sounds beautiful :).

*waving* Hey, Druid guy. I like hanging out with Druids. Religiously, I'm a better fit with yer standard American Neopaganism, but I love the scholarship and heritage and literature of studying with Druids. :)

And, Wrestica, I think we're of reasonably similar minds to this. Basically, an important thing about the Threefold Law is to realize that this is how people perceive their *experience.* If I were to hit you out of malice, say, it wouldn't require I suddenly get hit back with three times the force: what it really means is, doing so affects me, affects you (and thus affects me) and thus affects the world, (and thus affects me.)

That's your threefold right there.

Get it?

:)

*waving to everyone who's talking here.* Nice to meet you all, by the way.

Question for any of you who call yourself pagan.

Do you realize that pagan is not a religion?

Pagans are simply anyone who is not a christian, muslim or jew. Meaning that while not generally thought of as such, as a Zen Buddhist I am also pagan. As are wiccans, druids, etc. Even catholics are pagan according to some (though that's a completely separate discussion which should not be explored here)

For those of you who do realize this, what religion are you actually?You are arguing semantics and quibbling definitions - I think most reasonable people accept the term "pagan" as a religion and/or belief system.

And yes, there are many, many varieties of pagan, but there are also many, many forms of Christians (Quaker, Catholic, Protestant, Amish, Born-again etc etc.)

OK, slight OT, but my 2 cents: I respect everyone's right to believe (or not believe) whatever they want. I consider myself agnostic (maybe not the dictionary definition, but that's as close as it comes to my beliefs). I have friends and acquaintances ranging from fundamentalist Christians, to atheists, Muslims, Hindus and pagans. As long as no one is trying to force their beliefs onto me, I'm generally cool with them.

Now, having said that, from personal experience, I find most of the Christians I know to be the most defensive and "pushy" about their beliefs - and I find the pagans to be the most secure and "relaxed" about theirs. I'm not saying this is true of everyone, but it IS true of those I have met in my personal experience.

Do you worship idols? Do you worship one God, many gods? Any gods?

Ah, a fellow Pagan...*sighs happily*

To give some perspective, from a rather extreme eclectic pagan: I don't celebrate festivals, and I believe the law of three is there because someone was wise enough to give this powerful psychological suggestion to the world. Things react when you do things, in spellcraft or otherwise, and if you're uncareful, this can harm you, but it violates conservation and entropy laws left and right to say that things come back three-fold in all cases.

I take a more direct (I believe) approach to morals. Fear and ignorance is why we harm others. The fear of lack of control is at the core of all fears, and we have no control that can't be taken away, which makes the fear even more persistant. Fear is the one thing that can take control of our minds, which is all we really have, so fear must be resisted, always, until it is conquered.

After death, your consciousness is free to explore the universe, and expand. Fear is finally absent, as it is purely a biological reaction.

I'll be hovering about, feel free to ask questions. :p

I like how you explained fear. IMHO its very true.

Do you worship idols? Do you worship one God, many gods? Any gods?

I don't worship anything. All of the Universe is equal in all respects and there is nothing above or below anything else. I pay homage and give respect to all things and some may see that as worship, but it isn't.

I believe nature is an all pervasive force that mankind cannot control, but we can build walls to keep out the wind and build fires to keep out the cold, so nature isn't to be worshipped. Respected ... absolutely.

I do not believe in a godhead or individual "supreme" power that sits behind the control panel and makes everything work. I believe everything has its place in nature - even us - and no one thing is more important than the next.

The one aspect of paganism I've always admired is the sense of connectedness that pagans seem to have...a recognition that ALL things are connected and we affect and are affected by more than we may think.

jeez, i step away from my computer for a few days and look where the convo ends up... the meaning that i read earlier on in the posts is rather different to that of the pagan federation, and even by christian standards the average buddhist would not be counted as pagan because they do not 'worship' a god, (due to the fact buddha made it rather clear he was not a god[this was rather lost in mahayana buddhism])
there is a heap of stuff on here that i would love to reply to, but right now im in the middle of preperation for exams and just dont have the time.
*waves at druid* druids rock by the way!!!!

and for those who havent read the earlier posts, im an australian pagan, and proud of it, and yes as a general thing we celebrate most festivals on a flipped calender (samhain i tend not to switch because of the whole veil between the worlds being at its thinest and things [get the feeling someone is looking weirdly at the screen right about now, but it does make sense, i think]) if anyone wants to chat about paganism just send me an email at doom_on_u@hotmail.com because at the moment i'll be more elikely to answer than on the posts. :)

Do you worship idols? Do you worship one God, many gods? Any gods?

I honor a god (The Sun) and goddess(The Moon). I don't worship because I don't blindly follow anything or anyone. I guess you can say that I'm Wiccan, but I don't tell anyone anything about my beliefs unless they ask and they seem like they really want to know, and not just because they want to shoot me down for it. Mostly, I try to achieve balance in my life, by meditation, exercise, and eating healthy. Unlike the stereotype of a Wiccan, I don't cast spells. I just don't feel the need to at the moment. Although I am trying to find out more about psi-magic, a form of spellcasting without the circle, candles, and all that other stuff. It's like prayer. If you wanna ask me any questions, feel free to. I'll answer the best I can.

Do you worship idols? Do you worship one God, many gods? Any gods?

I'm with Keruvalia on this one, although I'm certain we have differing views on the overall order of things.

I believe there are many so called gods and goddesses, but that they are simply humans with more magickal power than us. I tend to be respectful to all gods and goddesses, but my "favourite" would be Isis.
I tend to see similarities between Isis and myself. After all, she poisoned Ra and then wouldn't cure him until he taught her more magick. I think that is seriously cool...Though only in theory, I could never do that in real life...

I believe there are many so called gods and goddesses, but that they are simply humans with more magickal power than us. I tend to be respectful to all gods and goddesses, but my "favourite" would be Isis.
I tend to see similarities between Isis and myself. After all, she poisoned Ra and then wouldn't cure him until he taught her more magick. I think that is seriously cool...Though only in theory, I could never do that in real life...


i like the way u think ({)

I'm an odd combinatin of religions. Just think Presbyterian/Pagan. Hard to understand, but i'm still smoothing the edges off of it.


Its ok, I have my own strange brand going as well, catholicism and paganism...hahaha...oh how the gods laugh at that one. Actually, in mexico its valid. "Bruhaism" Only thats like, ancient mexican gods and catholicism. I mostly believe in a life force and spirit in everything. More of a cross between a lot of native american stuff and celtic beliefs. I plan to go public with it someday and make gillions.

OK, slight OT, but my 2 cents: I respect everyone's right to believe (or not believe) whatever they want. I consider myself agnostic (maybe not the dictionary definition, but that's as close as it comes to my beliefs). I have friends and acquaintances ranging from fundamentalist Christians, to atheists, Muslims, Hindus and pagans. As long as no one is trying to force their beliefs onto me, I'm generally cool with them.

Now, having said that, from personal experience, I find most of the Christians I know to be the most defensive and "pushy" about their beliefs - and I find the pagans to be the most secure and "relaxed" about theirs. I'm not saying this is true of everyone, but it IS true of those I have met in my personal experience.

Personally I have always thought that the christian pushiness was based on the fact that they needed confirmation. Other people to do it to so they know its right. The pagan is already off the "conventional path" so its not like they need someone to hold their hand. If someone asks me about something I will gladly explain it and invite them to learn more. My only advice ever is stay away from Crowley....what a nutjob that guy was.

Why do pagans only take the "good" bits of pagantry? Why don't you sacrafice people in bogs?

Do pagans vote republcan/conservative?

Why do pagans only take the "good" bits of pagantry? Why don't you sacrafice people in bogs?

I don't scarafice because I don't want to go to jail. And I don't think I can kill another person. You can easily make scarafices of bread and other foods and still have the same meaning.

Do pagans vote republcan/conservative?

I am very liberal. I don't know about anyone else.

Why do pagans only take the "good" bits of pagantry? Why don't you sacrafice people in bogs?

I'm not that kind of Pagan. My people never sacrificed humans.

Do pagans vote republcan/conservative?

I vote liberal/democratic ... I can't speak for others.

LOL, I can think of a few people who could stand being sacrificed. However, the days of burning criminals and vagrants in giant wicker statues to the tuatha are sadly over. Now we just all don't eat meat and like...idk...sell handicrafts and ren-faires. ...Oh for the crazy days of old.

I vote per candidate, but I'm a libertarian.

My favourite mythologies would be:

> Babylonian/Sumerian (there is a fair amount of crossover)

> Celtic

> Norse

Honorable mentions to:

> Finnish

> Egyptian

> Greek

> Roman

;)

Even if I wanted to, I wouldn't sacrifice people because I believe it's pointless. The value and power of an individual is in their consciousness, will, and individuality, and upon death these are not lost. There is no intristic value in human flesh, or value of this life over the afterlife. Therefore to kill someone is not a true sacrifice. Furthermore, I don't believe anything holds domain over the souls of the dead. I believe you are free of such human idiocies as ownership when you are dead, so nothing would really care if you made a ritual of assisted suicide.

This all might seem cold, but consider that I -don't- want to, nor would I ever.

Per candidate here too. I'm not exactly sure what sociopolitical philosophy I'd hold myself to, but libertarian seems decent enough as opposed to saying nothing.

Why do pagans only take the "good" bits of pagantry? Why don't you sacrafice people in bogs?

Do pagans vote republcan/conservative?

Well, first of all, a lot of pagan spirituality is reliant on the land and tendencies of nature. Nature is in a state of flux all the time. Therefore, it would stand to reason that the beliefs of pagans can fluxuate accordingly to fit with nature. Second, different pagans believe different things. It's generally accepted that human sacrifice is not what connects us with our higher self now.

What the belief was when our respective spiritualities began is a different story. We know more about the natural forces behind things and now understand that our sacrificing an animal (or person) won't give us good crops or a nice, long rainy season. Second, as a Druid, I can say there is absolutely no conclusive proof that Druids sacrificed humans (the author of that thought was Ceasar and said the exact same thing about Christians). I don't pick and choose, it's just that Druidry is more of a philosophy than a religion. The intellectual aspect inherent in the spirituality of Druidry demands that we seek our own path and truths. Druids were the early scientists, teachers, philosophers, and intellectuals. If my intellect points me in a direction, I'm likely to go that way (at least for awhile).

I am very liberal and vote in kind. I do have a friend who will vote for Bush in the coming election. We don't discuss politics together because we simply don't agree.

My favourite mythologies would be:

> Celtic

Honorable mentions to:

> Egyptian

> Greek

> Roman

;)

yep their very kwl. do u hav a link to any babylonian mythology (sorry about the spelling)

I've heard it a few places, the easiest would be simply looking in the dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pagan


That's the problem with dictionary definitions, you're using defintion number one, most of us are using number five. Or three if you use the second grouping of definitions.

Wait...when was this thread begun? I thought Keruvalia was claiming to be Muslim now?

Do you worship idols? Do you worship one God, many gods? Any gods?


This varies from Pagan to Pagan. I have yet to meet one who actualy worships an Idol, although they most likely exist. Most will have a small statue representing one or more divinitys but the statue itself is not worshiped any more than you worship your cross or crucifix.

Why do pagans only take the "good" bits of pagantry? Why don't you sacrafice people in bogs?

Do pagans vote republcan/conservative?

Why don't modern Christians or Jews stone people to death for working on the Sabath?

Just jumpin' on the bandwagon. :D

baaaaaah

Jump on this.

Isnt it against the law to exhume a corpse?

Isnt it against the law to exhume a corpse?

Um, what?

Um, what?


Wasnt this thread old and it just got dug up?

Pagan belief is a fad that is coll amongst teenage girls who's suburban parents forced them to go to church and now they're all bitter and rebellious. I can't believe people would actually subscribe to such nonsense... But I also don't understand how people subscribe to nonses such as Christianity or any religion for that matter. I'm an atheist.

Wait...when was this thread begun? I thought Keruvalia was claiming to be Muslim now?

This thread was begun on September 29, 2004. I became Muslim on November 29, 2004.

Not sure why it was gravedug.

Pagan belief is a fad that is coll amongst teenage girls who's suburban parents forced them to go to church and now they're all bitter and rebellious. I can't believe people would actually subscribe to such nonsense... But I also don't understand how people subscribe to nonses such as Christianity or any religion for that matter. I'm an atheist.

as well as someone who clearly knows nothing about Pagan belief.

This thread was begun on September 29, 2004. I became Muslim on November 29, 2004.

Not sure why it was gravedug.

Mainly because I forgot to look at the dates, I assumed that it was started AFTER my thread of the same title and was the reason my thread of the same title was no longer getting a response after a brief surge of popularity. Also diferent boards have diferent policys about thread necromancy and I am unaware of what the policy is here.

Mainly because I forgot to look at the dates, I assumed that it was started AFTER my thread of the same title and was the reason my thread of the same title was no longer getting a response after a brief surge of popularity. Also diferent boards have diferent policys about thread necromancy and I am unaware of what the policy is here.


Oooh ... nod. That makes sense. Well this one was started during a time when page one of the forums was:

Ask a Jew
Ask a Christian
Ask a Stanist
Ask a Dog
Ask a Crazy Man
Ask an Atheist
Bush Sucks
Ask a Vegan
Ask an Alien
Ask a Liberal
Kerry eats babies!
Ask a Homosexual
Ask a Veteran
Ask a Unitarian
Ask a Hippie

Well ... you get the idea ... a ban was placed on "Ask a" threads it got so bad.

Oooh ... nod. That makes sense. Well this one was started during a time when page one of the forums was:

Ask a Jew
Ask a Christian
Ask a Stanist
Ask a Dog
Ask a Crazy Man
Ask an Atheist
Bush Sucks
Ask a Vegan
Ask an Alien
Ask a Liberal
Kerry eats babies!
Ask a Homosexual
Ask a Veteran
Ask a Unitarian
Ask a Hippie

Well ... you get the idea ... a ban was placed on "Ask a" threads it got so bad.

Damn! To bad actualy; when serious the "Ask a . . ." thread (judging from my "Ask a Pagan" and the "Ask a Muslim" thread) seems like a good way for commenly misunderstood groups to corect a few misaprehentions people have about them.

And when done well, the humourous ones are good too, like the Ask a Necromancer one ... at least I think that was meant humourously :p

And when done well, the humourous ones are good too, like the Ask a Necromancer one ... at least I think that was meant humourously :p

Aha ... yeah I remember that one. I also found the "Ask a Ask a Thread Maker" one to be fun.