NationStates Jolt Archive

I am a former mormon and for a good part of my life was taught that Jesus was the saivor but that Morma was the Lord.

This never made much sense to me, especially because they never told me who or what Morma was, I just knew that every day we had church we all had to face the gold colored box.

I found this website that explains just what Morma is.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

Is it true that Mormons don't acknowledge Jesus as the human incarnate of God the Father. That your religion believes we as humans are all "Sons" and "Daughters" of God.? Are you encouraged to have a lot of children so you can populate your own planet? And what about all the negative things I've heard about the founder Joseph Smith...stealing, pedophilia etc.? There are so many things I've heard and most of it negative I'm sorry to say.

Mormonism teaches polytheism (versus monotheism taught in the Bible), believing that the universe is inhabited by many gods who produce spirit children. Joseph Smith declared, "I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370). Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie spoke about the Godhead in this way, "Plurality of Gods: Three separate personages: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods" (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577).

Mormonism teaches that Jesus, Lucifer, and all the demons, as well as all mankind, are actually all spirit brothers and sisters, born in the spirit world as spirit babies to our man-god Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. Mormon leaders have consistently taught that God the Father ("Adam-god") had sexual relations on earth with Mary (his own spirit daughter), to produce the physical body of Jesus. Early Mormon apostles also asserted that Christ was a polygamist, and that His wives included Mary and Martha (the sisters of Lazarus) and Mary Magdalene.

Please explain some of this. I'd like to think this is all wrong.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/mormon.htm

http://www.carm.org/lds/unveiled.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4809/mormon.html

http://www.feedmysheep.co.uk/BibleS...comeamormon.asp

The site in my post answers your questions please read it.

So Morma is some creepy pagan god?!!!

Pagan? who can say...

All that is known is the Morma is the "Golden Prince."

Golden Dawn...or Lucifer? golden prince...

Could very well be true...

Next time you see a mormon you should ask if there is a connection.

Gotta watch the body language, since they deny truth with words.

why are Mormons so intent on converting people?

That site is wrong. For example it says Joseph Smith arrived in America in 1780 something, but he was actually born in 1805. Also, his death, if I remember correctly dealt with him getting lynched in the midwest, not getting shot by Young.

That site is wrong. For example it says Joseph Smith arrived in America in 1780 something, but he was actually born in 1805. Also, his death, if I remember correctly dealt with him getting lynched in the midwest, not getting shot by Young.


I told you they deny truth with words...

Didn't one of those 2 have a lot of run ins with the law...which had nothing to do with their religious practices...like stealing or something like that...I can't remember the exact details

Didn't one of those 2 have a lot of run ins with the law...which had nothing to do with their religious practices...like stealing or something like that...I can't remember the exact details

I think Smith was like a con artist and thief (or at least that's what I was taught in American history).

I think Smith was like a con artist and thief (or at least that's what I was taught in American history).
yes that's it!

Didn't one of those 2 have a lot of run ins with the law...which had nothing to do with their religious practices...like stealing or something like that...I can't remember the exact details

Brigham Young (Younge) shot Joseph Smith and took his prized posession, I would say that counts as "stealing or something."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

The whole religion seems to originated in the midst of manipulation, polygamy and violence...how sad

I still dont know what they kept in the gold box they made everyone face.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

You have to wonder why Joseph Smith was buried in such a strange outfit...

To address the raving maniac who posted on this thread below this post:

No i am not a catholic, no i am not a protestant or a jew or a muslim.

You are insane if you think i'm a racist.

Insane.

Who and what do you think you are bashing the Mormon religion? I am far from a member but at least I know more than the propaganda bullshit your preaching. Are you a Jehovah’s Witness or a Catholic raving about another religion that takes credit from your own or are you just a stupid jackass. I've studied theology and the thought of calling the Mormon Church paganism is laughable and almost insulting. Before you start talking about something and attempting to destroy its image learn about it you fascist piece of human refuse. You defame Mormons but fail to mention how Catholics have slaughtered civilizations and forged their empire on a path of blood, hatred, and lies. I am not a religious person but when some stupid fuck tries to attack a person's ideals without knowing a damn thing about it I tend to be agitated. In this argument I need to stand up and say back their religion you shit-faced racist.

I am a former mormon and for a good part of my life was taught that Jesus was the saivor but that Morma was the Lord.

This never made much sense to me, especially because they never told me who or what Morma was, I just knew that every day we had church we all had to face the gold colored box.

I found this website that explains just what Morma is.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/
OK Dude, you are a troll... go away, and quit giving us real Latter-Day Saints a bad name. Every single thing on that site is false. Everything. I have never even heard of this character "morma"

Now of course, if you are talking about some made up religion called the Mormans... heh, by all means, make it up.

Who and what do you think you are bashing the Mormon religion? I am far from a member but at least I know more than the propaganda bullshit your preaching. Are you a Jehovah’s Witness or a Catholic raving about another religion that takes credit from your own or are you just a stupid jackass. I've studied theology and the thought of calling the Mormon Church paganism is laughable and almost insulting. Before you start talking about something and attempting to destroy its image learn about it you fascist piece of human refuse. You defame Mormons but fail to mention how Catholics have slaughtered civilizations and forged their empire on a path of blood, hatred, and lies. I am not a religious person but when some stupid fuck tries to attack a person's ideals without knowing a damn thing about it I tend to be agitated. In this argument I need to stand up and say back their religion you shit-faced racist.

*cough*

Uhm, what he said...

Honestly though, I've always found it rediculous that people dedicate their whole lives to some invisble man in the sky. Think about stuff before you go around calling everyone crazy.

An interesting fact though...

Did you guys know that former 49ers Quarterback Steve Young is Brigham Young's great-great grandson?

An interesting fact though...

Did you guys know that former 49ers Quarterback Steve Young is Brigham Young's great-great grandson?

Yup

My family has been mormon since the 1830s :)

An interesting fact though...

Did you guys know that former 49ers Quarterback Steve Young is Brigham Young's great-great grandson?

Well, I've been informed about quite a bit on this thread...I wish the Mormons on the other thread would have answered my original question though...I've heard so many strange stories...I'd like to know what exactly is true.

Mormons? We Europeans invented Christianity in the first place. We don't need to have our religion brought back to us with an addition.

My family has been mormon since the 1830s :)

I mean nothing negative against you or Mormons by posting this... a friend of mine and a member of my band is Mormon, but I've got another friend who has newspaper clippings that mention and praise his great-great grandfather for his work "against" the Mormons in Missouri. Now, as a Mormon, you would probably know this work was very ugly.

Mormons? We Europeans invented Christianity in the first place. We don't need to have our religion brought back to us with an addition.

Everything, good or bad, is ruined by its sequel.

I am LDS. Have been all my life. To clarify things I'll answer a few questions. Joseph Smith was born in America in the 1800's. He found a book and translated it. It's called the book of Mormon. It is this book that we study along with the Bible. The same Bible that many other christians read, the King James Version. Joseph Smith was tortured many times by the American people, almost as a whole. There was even an extermination order. He taught what he believed, freely, with the rights that we, as American's, all share. He was later shot, while in a prison, by a mob. He was not a thief or a con artist. Just a guy that taught what he believed.

The book of Mormon gets it's name from the man who compiled it. It is a collection of the writings of his ancestors and his people.

We are always striving to convert others because we have faith that what we read in the Bible and Book of Mormon is true and we wish to share it with all who choose to accept it.

I can't possibly represent an entire religious group so please don't think I'm trying to. What I say is my own belief and what I have taught and been taught for many years.

NOW SHUT UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!! Heh.

I am LDS. Have been all my life. To clarify things I'll answer a few questions. Joseph Smith was born in America in the 1800's. He found a book and translated it. It's called the book of Mormon. It is this book that we study along with the Bible. The same Bible that many other christians read, the King James Version. Joseph Smith was tortured many times by the American people, almost as a whole. There was even an extermination order. He taught what he believed, freely, with the rights that we, as American's, all share. He was later shot, while in a prison, by a mob. He was not a thief or a con artist. Just a guy that taught what he believed.

The book of Mormon gets it's name from the man who compiled it. It is a collection of the writings of his ancestors and his people.

We are always striving to convert others because we have faith that what we read in the Bible and Book of Mormon is true and we wish to share it with all who choose to accept it.

I can't possibly represent an entire religious group so please don't think I'm trying to. What I say is my own belief and what I have taught and been taught for many years.

NOW SHUT UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!! Heh.

Well! That's good enough for me! Thank you for answering my question :D

I mean nothing negative against you or Mormons by posting this... a friend of mine and a member of my band is Mormon, but I've got another friend who has newspaper clippings that mention and praise his great-great grandfather for his work "against" the Mormons in Missouri. Now, as a Mormon, you would probably know this work was very ugly.
You'd be surprised how many Mormons can trace their heritage back to those who actually ran us out of missouri :P

There are even cases where the people who did it actually became mormons :)

I am LDS. Have been all my life. To clarify things I'll answer a few questions. Joseph Smith was born in America in the 1800's. He found a book and translated it. It's called the book of Mormon. It is this book that we study along with the Bible. The same Bible that many other christians read, the King James Version. Joseph Smith was tortured many times by the American people, almost as a whole. There was even an extermination order. He taught what he believed, freely, with the rights that we, as American's, all share. He was later shot, while in a prison, by a mob. He was not a thief or a con artist. Just a guy that taught what he believed.

The book of Mormon gets it's name from the man who compiled it. It is a collection of the writings of his ancestors and his people.

We are always striving to convert others because we have faith that what we read in the Bible and Book of Mormon is true and we wish to share it with all who choose to accept it.

I can't possibly represent an entire religious group so please don't think I'm trying to. What I say is my own belief and what I have taught and been taught for many years.

NOW SHUT UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!! Heh.

"The religious and social system of the Latter-day Saints; so called from their gospel, termed The Book of Mormon. Joe Smith, the founder of the system, was born in Sharon, Windsor county, Vermont; his partner was Rigdon. The manuscript, which he declared to be written on gold plates, was a novel written by Spalding. He was cited thirty-nine times into courts of law, and was at last assassinated by a gang of ruffians, who broke into his prison at Carthage, and shot him like a dog. His wife’s name was Emma; he lived at Nauvoo, in Illinois; his successor was Brigham Young, a carpenter by trade, who led the “Saints” (as the Mormons are called), driven from home by force, to the valley of the Salt Lake, 1,500 miles distant, generally called Utah, but by the Mormons themselves Deseret (Bee-country), the New Jerusalem. Abraham is their model man, and Sarai their model woman, and English their language. Young’s house was called the Bee-hive. Every man, woman, and child capable of work has work to do in the community."
http://www.bartleby.com/81/11680.html

"Mormon.

The last of a pretended line of Hebrew prophets, and the pretended author of The Book of Mormon, or Golden Bible, written on golden plates. This work was in reality written by the Rev. Solomon Spalding, but was claimed by Joseph Smith as a direct revelation to him by the angel Mormon. Spalding died in 1816; Smith, 1844."

http://www.bartleby.com/81/11677.html

NOW SHUT UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!! Heh.
*pats you on the head* It's alright, don't worry... everything'll be alright... :)

"The religious and social system of the Latter-day Saints; so called from their gospel, termed The Book of Mormon. Joe Smith, the founder of the system, was born in Sharon, Windsor county, Vermont; his partner was Rigdon. The manuscript, which he declared to be written on gold plates, was a novel written by Spalding. He was cited thirty-nine times into courts of law, and was at last assassinated by a gang of ruffians, who broke into his prison at Carthage, and shot him like a dog. His wife’s name was Emma; he lived at Nauvoo, in Illinois; his successor was Brigham Young, a carpenter by trade, who led the “Saints” (as the Mormons are called), driven from home by force, to the valley of the Salt Lake, 1,500 miles distant, generally called Utah, but by the Mormons themselves Deseret (Bee-country), the New Jerusalem. Abraham is their model man, and Sarai their model woman, and English their language. Young’s house was called the Bee-hive. Every man, woman, and child capable of work has work to do in the community."
http://www.bartleby.com/81/11680.html

"Mormon.

The last of a pretended line of Hebrew prophets, and the pretended author of The Book of Mormon, or Golden Bible, written on golden plates. This work was in reality written by the Rev. Solomon Spalding, but was claimed by Joseph Smith as a direct revelation to him by the angel Mormon. Spalding died in 1816; Smith, 1844."

http://www.bartleby.com/81/11677.html
98% horse pucky

So Joseph Smith was really Alexander Nevsky? That's interesting.

While you're at it, why don't you just something like "Mormons believe Jesus was radioactive slime monster from the planet Kolob who took human form to take control of the Earth" :P

(which of course, is utterly false)

While you're at it, why don't you just something like "Mormons believe Jesus was radioactive slime monster from the planet Kolob who took human form to take control of the Earth" :P

(which of course, is utterly false)

However, the Kolob part does play a part, does it now? I'm not sure.

I'll admit though that there is a lot of crap people say about Mormons. Before moving to Utah I was convinced they were all polygamists. Now I know that only small groups of them are, and it just so happens that I live near one of these groups.

Something that bothers me is one of the last verses in the Bible. Now I'm not sure of the exact quote or position, but if you read backwards you'll find what I'm talking about.

It says that what's in the book is the only book. Nothing will come after it. If, by any chance, something does come after it, then whoever writes it is gonna go through a load of crap and plagues and whatnot. Perhaps this is the answer to the prosecution the Mormans have faced for nearly 200 years?

However, the Kolob part does play a part, does it now? I'm not sure.

I'll admit though that there is a lot of crap people say about Mormons. Before moving to Utah I was convinced they were all polygamists. Now I know that only small groups of them are, and it just so happens that I live near one of these groups. Gah... this is why we like the term LDS... there are no Polygamist LDS.

Something that bothers me is one of the last verses in the Bible. Now I'm not sure of the exact quote or position, but if you read backwards you'll find what I'm talking about.

It says that what's in the book is the only book. Nothing will come after it. If, by any chance, something does come after it, then whoever writes it is gonna go through a load of crap and plagues and whatnot. Perhaps this is the answer to the prosecution the Mormans have faced for nearly 200 years?lol it says the same thing halfway through the old testament, and yet the New testament came forth, yes? The quote has to do with -man- adding to the scriptures without being told to do so by God... to do as such would not be the Word of God, practically by Definition.

Secondly, Revelations is not Chronologically last. So anything written after that would have had to be discarded as well.

And thirdly, 90% of the book of Mormon was written before that verse in revelations was written... so... it already counted :P

http://www.helpingmormons.org/solomon_spalding.htm

The book that was mention in an earlier post of mine.

http://www.helpingmormons.org/solomon_spalding.htm

The book that was mention in an earlier post of mine.
So what, do you have any idea how many anti-mormon books there are out there? Even Mark Twain wrote a lot of anti-mormon Literature.

Personally, I don't give a crap about them. I don't personally have enough information to disprove them, but many have, and I have faith... so really, I don't care :)

So what, do you have any idea how many anti-mormon books there are out there? Even Mark Twain wrote a lot of anti-mormon Literature.

Personally, I don't give a crap about them. I don't personally have enough information to disprove them, but many have, and I have faith... so really, I don't care :)

The book came out before Joseph Smith was said to have found the plates.

http://www.helpingmormons.org/temples.htm

This link will more than likely offend the Mormans here, but that is not the intent I have in posting it. It is more of an informative page.

The reason it might come off as offensive is because it goes behind the doors of the sacred temple.

The book came out before Joseph Smith was said to have found the plates.

http://www.helpingmormons.org/temples.htm

This link will more than likely offend the Mormans here, but that is not the intent I have in posting it. It is more of an informative page.

The reason it might come off as offensive is because it goes behind the doors of the sacred temple.
OK, you'd think a guy who knows enough about mormons to try to disprove their religion would at least know how to spell the bloody word "Mormon." Seriously... it's like... 6 letters...

It is (politicaly correct) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or LDS. I am a member and have been all my life. This "Morma" character is purley fictional and a creation of this mans imaganation. We are called Mormons because of an additional book of scripture called the Book of Mormon, which we believe to be the teachings of God to the people of the America's during the old testament through about 300 AD. We do still belive in the Bible. We teach that God is the Father, Creator, the GOd of all things, and he is the central figure in our religion. We do teach that we are all his spirit children and all are brothers and sisters, even Christ and Lucifer. We do teach that there is a mother in heaven but we do do not know if it is one universal mother or there are multiple. We do not teach that God the Father had sexaul relations with Mary. Jesus Christ is his son and the Lord and Savior, they are two seperate entities with the same purpose and acting as one. We believe that Christ suffered for our sins and that he died for us, so we can live agian, but you have to be worthy of his sacrifice to recieve the full benifits. We believe that both the Father and the Son have divine, but physicall, bodies. The holy ghost is a spirit who chose (or was chosen, I'm not quite sure) to not go to earth and instead serve as the prompter and spirit to guide us. He can be everywhere at once in mind and spirit and voice because he does not have a physical body. Our church once allowed polygamy but no longer does and will not tolerate it. THe so called MOrmons that still pratice it are members of spin offs of our religion just as there are with every religion. If you want the LDS religion in a nutshell I suggest you read what we call the Thirteen articles of faith. These were written by Joeseph Smith to explain to the misinformed worl what our religion was. They were origionally in a letter to someone asking about our beliefs.

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints



1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.


2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.


3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.


4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.


5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.


6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.


7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.


8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.


9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.


10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.


11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.


12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.


13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

OK, you'd think a guy who knows enough about mormons to try to disprove their religion would at least know how to spell the bloody word "Mormon." Seriously... it's like... 6 letters...

That was one mistake out of... how many times did I type the word in?

I'm tired, extremely so as it is almost 1AM and I woke up kind of early this morning. My brain must have remember an earlier post where it was spelled "Morman" because of the whole Morma thing, which I will agree with you in saying that it is crap.

I enjoyed the comeback by the way. When there is nothing to argue you insult my spelling mistakes. Very mature of you.

I must say though that I am not trying to make enemies, but I am only attempting to discuss this and remain as mature and civil as possible. For some reason the believers are always angered.

Maybe some of you Mormons can explain a couple of things for me..

1. If Joseph Smith reputedly found these plates in the middle of the woods, translated them by use of some sort of mystical dechypher...and copied (or had copied) them, why was it that no one ever saw the plates, or the object used to decypher them?
I know that theres a mention that "no one was allowed to see them"..

But isnt that just a little too convenient?

2. If part of the highest level of Heaven, is becoming a god yourself, then isnt that basically a polytheistic religion?

3. Whats with the "sacred garment" thing?

4. Is it true that the original translation was lost, and Smith had to "re-copy and translate" them, and when he did...the new text was vastly different than it was before?

...THe so called MOrmons that still pratice it are members of spin offs of our religion just as there are with every religion...

Sorry to say bud, but technically, your religion is the spin off. These fundementalists are the ones that stuck with the way the religion was started and what was right in the original teachings. Realize that polygamy was denounced by the church as a means to gain Statehood for Utah and to drop a little bit of that crap they were getting from like, the whole country.

Maybe some of you Mormons can explain a couple of things for me..

1. If Joseph Smith reputedly found these plates in the middle of the woods, translated them by use of some sort of mystical dechypher...and copied (or had copied) them, why was it that no one ever saw the plates, or the object used to decypher them?
I know that theres a mention that "no one was allowed to see them"..

But isnt that just a little too convenient?

2. If part of the highest level of Heaven, is becoming a god yourself, then isnt that basically a polytheistic religion?

3. Whats with the "sacred garment" thing?

4. Is it true that the original translation was lost, and Smith had to "re-copy and translate" them, and when he did...the new text was vastly different than it was before?

An answer to question one...

He kept them in a hat. Didn't you watch South Park?! :p

As far as the Title question goes.

Mormon: Anyone who believes Joseph Smith was a Prophet, that he saw God and Jesus Christ, and believes everything he said. This includes all spinoffs (sects?) of the Restored Church of Christ... The Latter-Day Saints, the RLDS (AKA COmmunity of Christ), the polygamist mormons, the bloody rainbow mormons, etc.

Latter-Day Saint:Anyone who is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, AKA "The True Church."

That's it. (Now get why we prefer "LDS" over "Mormons"? :)

Dnnt believe the mormons, they say he found gold plates with a bible book on them..

he really found Morma, the Golden Prince.


its all explained in detail here : http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

ahh, I see where this thread is going... so outta here :)

g'night!

To take it to an even deeper level, Mormonism in itself is a spinoff of Christianity.

Yup, Morma was real.

And then right after that I found a chunk of gold in my butt crack.

An answer to question one...

He kept them in a hat. Didn't you watch South Park?! :p


Yes I did, but I want to know how much of that is true.

Yes I did, but I want to know how much of that is true.

From what I know, the very BASICS of the story are true. I doubt that people in the background were singing "Dumb dumb dumb" all of the time, and I doubt that he kept the plates in a hat.

From what I know, the very BASICS of the story are true. I doubt that people in the background were singing "Dumb dumb dumb" all of the time, and I doubt that he kept the plates in a hat.


Thats what I assumed.
But if thats true, its awfully hard to swallow, so to speak.

Maybe some of you Mormons can explain a couple of things for me..

1. If Joseph Smith reputedly found these plates in the middle of the woods, translated them by use of some sort of mystical dechypher...and copied (or had copied) them, why was it that no one ever saw the plates, or the object used to decypher them?
I know that theres a mention that "no one was allowed to see them"..

But isnt that just a little too convenient?

2. If part of the highest level of Heaven, is becoming a god yourself, then isnt that basically a polytheistic religion?

3. Whats with the "sacred garment" thing?

4. Is it true that the original translation was lost, and Smith had to "re-copy and translate" them, and when he did...the new text was vastly different than it was before?

1. Others did see them. there were eventually 11-13 (I'm not quite sure off of the top of my head) witnesses. He read the translation from one side of a curtain while the scribe on the other side copied it.

2. Yes we believe we can become as Gods, but even at that time The Lord God will still be our GOd and we will worship him. Please rephrase the rest of the question.

3. This I don't know. That is an ordanance and covenant recieved somtime after your 18th bithday in the temple. Some may wait even longer, like myself. It is a very sacred, not neccasarily secret, but protected, ordanance.

4. The BOM is divided up into books in the same way as the Bible, with the execption that there are mutiple books by two different prophets of the same name. This often causes cofusion. There was a book from the text that was transalated and then the translation was lost. This book was never retranslated. The text does occasionally change, through divine inspriration. IT is not drastic changes however. As with any translation of any languge there are words that can be translated various ways. These changes are to clarify. For example there was a verse that said you must be white to be rightous. Many members took this as a racial statement and discriminated against other races because of it. The meaning was clean and the verse was eventually changed to use the word clean rather than white.

Sorry to say bud, but technically, your religion is the spin off. These fundementalists are the ones that stuck with the way the religion was started and what was right in the original teachings. Realize that polygamy was denounced by the church as a means to gain Statehood for Utah and to drop a little bit of that crap they were getting from like, the whole country.

Technically true I guess. The church did not outlaw Poligamy until well after Utah achieved statehood though. It was the territorial government that outlawed it. The two were however very closely intertwined. The idea of what I was saying remains the same though. Let us not play word games or dig people out on irrelavant technicalities. Let's discuss this as mature adults.

1. Others did see them. there were eventually 11-13 (I'm not quite sure off of the top of my head) witnesses. He read the translation from one side of a curtain while the scribe on the other side copied it.

2. Yes we believe we can become as Gods, but even at that time The Lord God will still be our GOd and we will worship him. Please rephrase the rest of the question.

3. This I don't know. That is an ordanance and covenant recieved somtime after your 18th bithday in the temple. Some may wait even longer, like myself. It is a very sacred, not neccasarily secret, but protected, ordanance.

4. The BOM is divided up into books in the same way as the Bible, with the execption that there are mutiple books by two different prophets of the same name. This often causes cofusion. There was a book from the text that was transalated and then the translation was lost. This book was never retranslated. The text does occasionally change, through divine inspriration. IT is not drastic changes however. As with any translation of any languge there are words that can be translated various ways. These changes are to clarify. For example there was a verse that said you must be white to be rightous. Many members took this as a racial statement and discriminated against other races because of it. The meaning was clean and the verse was eventually changed to use the word clean rather than white.


But Joseph Smith spoke english, right?
So, if he were making the translation, how or why would he mistake the word "white" with "clean"?

and you spoke of these 13 witnessess...

They saw the plates behind the curtain, or the text was read aloud behind the curtain, and a scribe jotted them down?

Who were these people that saw the plates, and what happened to the plates themselves?

white, as in white as snow, as in pure. It has nothing to do with skin color.

It's used in the bible too, though your sins may be as scarlet, you shall be as white as snow...

But Joseph Smith spoke english, right?
So, if he were making the translation, how or why would he mistake the word "white" with "clean"?

and you spoke of these 13 witnessess...

They saw the plates behind the curtain, or the text was read aloud behind the curtain, and a scribe jotted them down?

Who were these people that saw the plates, and what happened to the plates themselves?

Yes, Joeseph Smith spoke english. It was not a matter of the english being off. I speak some french, and there are words with no exact translation or multiple translations. If I were to say Sympathetique in french it could mean kind, nice, good person, or sympathetec. It is the same way with any languge and that is where the errors occur.

The 11-13 witnesses all saw the plates in person at various times. Two of them were scribes that were allowed to see them. The others were other leaders in the church. The text being read aloud behind the curtain was the method of translation. We believe he actual translation was done through a set of stones called the Urim and Thumum. We don't know the particulars on how they worked. What happened to the plates? I personally don't know. I've always been led to belive that the plates and other applicalbe artifacts were taken by the angel Moroni(a BOM prophet that visited Joseph as an angel on several occasions) at the end of the process. I hope this helps.

Yes, Joeseph Smith spoke english. It was not a matter of the english being off. I speak some french, and there are words with no exact translation or multiple translations. If I were to say Sympathetique in french it could mean kind, nice, good person, or sympathetec. It is the same way with any languge and that is where the errors occur.

The 11-13 witnesses all saw the plates in person at various times. Two of them were scribes that were allowed to see them. The others were other leaders in the church. The text being read aloud behind the curtain was the method of translation. We believe he actual translation was done through a set of stones called the Urim and Thumum. We don't know the particulars on how they worked. What happened to the plates? I personally don't know. I've always been led to belive that the plates and other applicalbe artifacts were taken by the angel Moroni(a BOM prophet that visited Joseph as an angel on several occasions) at the end of the process. I hope this helps.

The angel Moron-I?

Did anyone ever claim to have seen this angel other than Smith?

The angel Moron-I?

Did anyone ever claim to have seen this angel other than Smith?
The more relevant questions are: Do any mormons care if anyone other than their prophet saw God and angels?

And, why, if you want a civilized debate, do you resort to childish jokes like "moron-i"

The angel Moron-I?

Did anyone ever claim to have seen this angel other than Smith?

I'm not completely sure on this one. I know other people saw angels, often together or with Joseph. If memory serves one of these encounters was with the Angle Moroni. Don't qoute me on it though, I'm not quite sure. I'm not a scholar of the LDS church just an extremely active member who happens to know his stuff (most of it anyways, apparantley there is always room for improvement, heh?)

The more relevant questions are: Do any mormons care if anyone other than their prophet as God and angels?

And, why, if you want a civilized debate, do you resort to childish jokes like "moron-i"


Becuase, quite simply, I find the name "Moroni" to be rather silly, I mean no offense, but take it if you must.

And in all seriousness, If I claimed to see an angel on a regular basis, what would you think of me?
Im wondering if the same question should be asked of Smith?

Joe Smith was an idiot for naming his angel Moroni. It's sort of like the Shiites except Smith doesn't have the excuse of not knowing English.

//not purporting to make civilized conversation, just making a vulgar observation...

But Joseph Smith spoke english, right?
So, if he were making the translation, how or why would he mistake the word "white" with "clean"?

and you spoke of these 13 witnessess...

They saw the plates behind the curtain, or the text was read aloud behind the curtain, and a scribe jotted them down?

Who were these people that saw the plates, and what happened to the plates themselves?

He didn't mistake the word white with clean, thats how it was origionally written, but it was changed so that people wouldn't see it as a racial discrimination

The 11 witnesses, thats right 11, were shown the actual plates. One, Oliver Cowdery, was actually allowed to translate while Joseph Smith acted as scribe.

The people that were given the oppourtunity to be witnesses of the plates were some of the original members of the church, along with some of Joseph Smith's family.

As for where the plates actually are, I'm not entirely sure, but I have heard that they were given to the Angel Moroni, the angel who showed Joseph Smith where the plates were hidden, and he took them into the spirit world with him.

As for this Morma guy, I've been a member of the church my entire life, I've rarely ever missed a sunday of going to church and I have never heard of some god named Morma

Becuase, quite simply, I find the name "Moroni" to be rather silly, I mean no offense, but take it if you must.

And in all seriousness, If I claimed to see an angel on a regular basis, what would you think of me?
Im wondering if the same question should be asked of Smith?
So what? You're probably the decendant of a guy named Nimrod

So what? You're probably the decendant of a guy named Nimrod


Quite possibly.
Ive got a few nimrods in my family...but as to the question?

Quite possibly.
Ive got a few nimrods in my family...but as to the question?
Well, if it was a hoax, and he wrote the whole thing... don't you think it'd be stupid to blow the whole thing by having the names of 2 or 3 people being 1 letter away from the word Moron? I mean, come on... you gotta do some thinking here. Names don't translate, they stay the same. I'm sure the word Moron was not in hebrew or reformed egyptian in any way... at least not like we have it today.

Thanks for keeping this lighthearted and mostly mature (who wants all mature that is boring, just have it when it counts) and thanks to the other member who showed up to fill in the gaps in my knowledge.

Well, if it was a hoax, and he wrote the whole thing... don't you think it'd be stupid to blow the whole thing by having the names of 2 or 3 people being 1 letter away from the word Moron? I mean, come on... you gotta do some thinking here. Names don't translate, they stay the same. I'm sure the word Moron was not in hebrew or reformed egyptian in any way... at least not like we have it today.


Thats the thing, yes I do find it kind of silly that the name was what it was.
Its kind of entirely too coincidental, really.
Moron is probably latin, so it would be probably taken as literal.

However, I also think its pretty coincedental that only Smiths closest followers were allowed to see these plates, and how easy it would be to have them say they saw them, especially if they believed what Smith taught.

Thats the thing, yes I do find it kind of silly that the name was what it was.
Its kind of entirely too coincidental, really.
Moron is probably latin, so it would be probably taken as literal.

However, I also think its pretty coincedental that only Smiths closest followers were allowed to see these plates, and how easy it would be to have them say they saw them, especially if they believed what Smith taught.

The actual names of the people that saw the plates are listed in the first few pages of the Books of Mormon, at least they are in the copy I have. There is also a few pages of Smith describing his encounter with the angel. However, as said before, most of the people that saw the plates were his own family members.

Another point that was brought up earlier though was regarding people calling themselves prophets. If I were to say an angel came to me and told me the true church was buried underground somewhere and that it was my job to find it, you could bet your ass nobody would believe me.

What makes the hairy man on the street that claims to be a Prophet any different than Smith, or Jesus for that matter?

Here's a question. how many people have seen God? Like, 2 or 3 maybe? Now, how many BILLION people believe in God?

Does it really surprise you that 5-10 million people can believe in a book of which the original copy is hidden?

Who and what do you think you are bashing the Mormon religion? I am far from a member but at least I know more than the propaganda bullshit your preaching. Are you a Jehovah’s Witness or a Catholic raving about another religion that takes credit from your own or are you just a stupid jackass. I've studied theology and the thought of calling the Mormon Church paganism is laughable and almost insulting. Before you start talking about something and attempting to destroy its image learn about it you fascist piece of human refuse. You defame Mormons but fail to mention how Catholics have slaughtered civilizations and forged their empire on a path of blood, hatred, and lies. I am not a religious person but when some stupid fuck tries to attack a person's ideals without knowing a damn thing about it I tend to be agitated. In this argument I need to stand up and say back their religion you shit-faced racist.


You can disagree but DO NOT FLAME.
By the way, way to be tolerant of Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics.

[QUOTE=BackwoodsSquatches]The angel Moron-I?[QUOTE]

Squatches, don't be insulting.

Here's a question. how many people have seen God? Like, 2 or 3 maybe? Now, how many BILLION people believe in God?

Does it really surprise you that 5-10 million people can believe in a book of which the original copy is hidden?

Zero. Well, one if you count the great J.C. That of course is if by God you're referring to the Father alone. Since you're Mormon I'll assume you are. If you use it in the traditional Christian sense to mean the Godhead, which would include the Christ, then we're talking many, many thousands.

Ok New Granada i know this is pesonal and you don't have to answer but were you excomunicated and if you were what for?

I find it pretty funny that some folks really take Mor(m)onism seriously. It is almost the same as Scientology, where some ominous retard had written a book and now some worse retards actually believe in the crap. Its seems that's only possible in America: so far away from the sources.