NationStates Jolt Archive

It does, thank you very much (I've always thought it rather pointless to explain my own beliefs if I don't learn others at the same time)

I don't know, and I don't agree with it. I myself disagree with many of Israels actions. Like that wall they're building, nothing good will come of that. To me it just screams "BERLIN WALL!" and we all know how well that turned out.

I think it might be because some people believe the Israeli government to be representative of the entire worlds Jewish population, so whatever they stand for everybody else stands for. Therefore, if you disagree with them you're disagreeing with all Jews everywhere, therefore you must be an Anti-Semite.

There is a huge difference between the Berlin wall and the wall currently being built by Israel. The Berlin wall was built by an oppressive government to keep its people IN. The Israeli wall is being built by a democratic government to keep people who are at war with them out.
No I'm not Jewish, nor from Israel

I know its not the exact same thing, with differences on all sides (Why it was built, who's building it, even just the way it's being constructed). It's just what it represents. It's a physical barrier seperating two peoples instead of bringing them together.

Another interesting, but this time contested, fact.

After God revealed himself to Abraham and instructed him in that whole "Idol worship is bad" thing and Abraham started forming the Jewish religion God, testing Abraham, commanded him to sacrifice his son, Isaac. Abraham, though really torn by the order, did what God commanded and took Isaac up the Mountain to be sacrificed. Just before Abraham did the killing part of the sacrifice God intervened, stopped the process, and gave Abraham a ram to kill in Isaacs place. Abraham passed the test by showing that he was willing to follow Gods orders despite the severe mental anguish that would ensue and God showed that he was merciful compassionate, that he wouldn't actually make a Father kill his Son to prove his loyalty.

However, a counter-argument has long existed. The belief that Abraham failed the test by not refusing to kill his son. Judaism has, since its very inception, strongly held the belief that human sacrifice is a very bad thing. In fact, it has been proposed that circumcision was begun as a way to replace human sacrifice (but that's a different story). People have thought that God wasn't testing Abraham on his loyalty to God, but rather to the loyalty of Gods teachings.

Makes you think, don't it?

That story of Abraham has always bothered me.

...Actually, one reason sacrificing animals/grains eventually stopped was because it wasn't needed. Most of the sacrificed stuff was given to the priests and charity, only a small portion was given to God, from farms. The ancient world revolutionized, and stopped becoming primarily agricultural (sp?) and more industrial and commercial...

Yays! Jew Power!!

I am Jewish myself, but I have been rejected by all sects. Obviously the Orthodox Jews do not accept be because of my Conservative Practices, however, the Reform Jews hate me because I refuse to abid by their leftist agenda which conflicts with the religion. I wasa board member on NFTY-Ger and resigned out of protest with the lies and bias they were doing. I was treasurer and refused to pay this guy who came from DC because all he did was say how we can elect pro-gun control candidates and when I spoke up he called me a Nazi. i find Reform Jews to be on the same level as Hitler himself. Hypocrites, ignorant, pathetic, and lastly, liars. You can be liberal, but dont call yourself that when you are closedminded. Sadly, 90% of the Reform Jews I met are just that thus I have a HATRED for them. The greatest enemy to the Jews are the Jews themselves. I have become more accepted by the Orthodox for my anti-Reform Jewish statements. Seriously, until you are Jewish, you will never understand the lies and hypocrisy the Reform Jews are. I have never seen such blindly ignorant people in my life.

Yes, I'm a conservative Jew too, but not quite as religious, I take most of my learning into moral and cultural aspects..

..I don't think Reform Jews can really call themselves Jews. The one Reform Jewish congregation that lives near me takes place in a church, their Bar/Bat Mitzvah's aren't in Hebrew, they have services once a month. Come on :rolleyes: ...well, not that I have gone to services in the past 3 months :D ...

A shul kicking you out just because your somewhat secular...

A jew is a jew.... i guess those rabbi's are just mean or something ;(

Anyways


Good to hear someone thinks they all worship the same God. I am of the belief that Jesus was the son of God.

As much as they all believe in the same G-d... there is one difference.

Christianity
Except for Unitarian Christians or other followers of Jesus who do not believe that he is God, most Christians would not be considered Noahides by most Jewish authorities, because the belief in the Godhood of Christ as idolatry. However, while there is no argument amongst the major authorities that belief in Trinitarianism would be a form of idolatry if practiced by a Jew, and most authorities agree this applies to non-Jews as well. However, the Tosafists R. Jacob Tam (Rashi's grandson), in Bekhorot 2b and Sanhedrin 63b, ruled that it could be permitted to gentiles as a form of Shittuf. This view was accepted by R. Moses Isserles (Rema, Orah Hayyim 156:1) while Maimonides' view is difficult to ascertain due to text alteration in different edditions of Yad, Ma'akhalot Asurot 11:7.

Technically a proper Non-Jew has to obey the 7 Noahide laws...

7 Noahide Laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide)

Wait, you know, I'll agree with Muh on this one. They con consider themselves Jews morally and politically, but not religiously...

Wait, you know, I'll agree with Muh on this one. They con consider themselves Jews morally and politically, but not religiously...

Exactly :), being Jewish is tough... allthough very rewarding....
You practically get a month off total from all the jewish holidays. :D

Ani Yehudi!

i hope you didn't just start another wave of these by digging this one out of its grave
see i told you
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=369540

So, by trying to spread the (limited) knowledge that I have, I have prompted others to spread their own knowledge, resulting in the betterment of mankind and defeat of ignorance. You think that's a bad thing?

Don't worry, there are plenty of other jews to help answer the questions anyways.

Plus i'm sure UWT isn't that racist IRL...right?

Okay, now I need to ask you a question. What the hell does your sig mean?

עם ישראל חי

I demand to know!

עם=Nation/People
ישראל=Israel
חי=Life

All together in a sentence it is...

The People of Israel Lives!

Pronounced in hebrew...

Am Yisroel Chai!

Ah, thanks. I've been wondering since I first saw you post

Another Random Fact: Why Moses never entered the Promised land

After splitting the Sea when fleeing the Egyptians, Getting the 10 Commandments from God on Mt. Sinai, and punishing those who worshipped the Golden Calf, the Jews wandered in the desert for forty years before reaching the Promised Land. This was so that the generation of Calf Worshipers would all die out before the Jews reached the Promised Land, but that their children would enter (which wouldn't work if God had simply killed them all outright). Anyway, when they were wandering in the desert (that place with very little food and water that people like to avoid) God commanded Moses to approach a rock, ask nicely, and the rock would open and water would flow forth for the People of Israel. Moses, whether afraid of failure in the eyes of his people or fearing that the rock wouldn't respond when asked nicely, simply smacked the rock with a stick. The rock opened and water flew forth to feed the Wanderers.

But Moses had disobeyed God and had even questioned Gods power. God had commanded him to ask nicely and he had smacked, Moses had feared that asking nicely wouldn't work. God couldn't let something like this pass in his number one servant, and he couldn't just do the usual Raining Fire and Brimstone punishment since Moses is still shepharding the Jews. So he uses a little subtlety.

As punishment for the Rock Smacking, God decreed that Moses would see the Promised land but would never set foot in it. Thus, on the very day the Jews reached the Promised Land, when the first ones are actually walking on it, Moses goes up a Mountain, see the Promised Land, goes "Yay!" and dies.

Moses goes up a Mountain, see the Promised Land, goes "Yay!" and dies.

LOL

close enough... as much as i'd love to be Anal-Compulsive... i'm moving right now, so don't have access to my Chumash.

Random Jewish Fact:

Did you know that if the Messiah doesn't come by the year 6000 (2240 AD)

We get to pick our own Messiah and rebuild the temple without him, until he does arrive.

No wonder mose of our people are Lawyers... we've got more loopholes then all the roller coasters in the world. :)

עם=Nation/People
ישראל=Israel
חי=Life

All together in a sentence it is...

The People of Israel Lives!

Pronounced in hebrew...

Am Yisroel Chai!

In Hebrew, letters also have numerical value. The value of the word חי is 18, so in case anyone was wondering why Jews give 18 (or twice or three times etc) dollars, that's why. I'm Jewish too, so any questions you get that you don't know the anwer too, maybe I will.

Yays! Jew Power!!

I am Jewish myself, but I have been rejected by all sects...

Hey listen, if you are still having problems with the major sects, have you considered Chabad?

I don't want to be offensive in any way, and you can disregard this post if you like. I've seen this question raised a couple times, and was wondering what your stance on it was.

How could God allow the Holocaust? It is argued that any evil that exists is there for some greater good. No greater good could possibly ever come from the Holocaust. How could God allow such a great amount of suffering on your people? Has the Holocaust ever affected your faith in God?

I have re-typed this post nearly a dozen times, and still can't think of a good response. So, I'll stick with this.

God has a plan. I know it's overly used and people don't often believe it anymore, but I think that it boils down to that simple statement. I can't see any good that has come from the Holocaust except some very minor things are extremely overshadowed by the massive death caused by Hitler, but I don't know what the world would be like if it hadn't happened. I can't come close to fathoming Gods motives, but I hold faith that he had a reason.

Perhaps it was a Great Flood scenario, clearing the Earth for a better generation. Perhaps it was a Job situation, testing us to see if we'd remain strong even when faced with evidence saying : God doesn't care. I don't know why God let it happen, but I hold faith that it was for some sort of greater good.

I guess that's what it boils down to, faith.

I am Jewish myself, but I have been rejected by all sects. Obviously the Orthodox Jews do not accept be because of my Conservative Practices, however, the Reform Jews hate me because I refuse to abid by their leftist agenda which conflicts with the religion.

Is not Conservative Judaism also a denomination? :rolleyes: How then can you claim to have been rejected by ALL? And since when are Orthodox and Reform Judaism called "sects"?

I wasa board member on NFTY-Ger and resigned out of protest with the lies and bias they were doing.

Such as?

I was treasurer and refused to pay this guy who came from DC because all he did was say how we can elect pro-gun control candidates and when I spoke up he called me a Nazi.

What does that have to do with Reform Judaism?

i find Reform Jews to be on the same level as Hitler himself.

I find such a statement deeply offensive.

Hypocrites, ignorant, pathetic, and lastly, liars.

How so?

You can be liberal, but dont call yourself that when you are closedminded.

What does being politically liberal have to do with Reform Judaism?

Sadly, 90% of the Reform Jews I met are just that thus I have a HATRED for them.

And how many Reform Jews have you met? What makes you qualified to pass judgment on them?

The greatest enemy to the Jews are the Jews themselves.

No arguments here.

I have become more accepted by the Orthodox for my anti-Reform Jewish statements.

Mazel Tov. :confused:

Seriously, until you are Jewish, you will never understand the lies and hypocrisy the Reform Jews are. I have never seen such blindly ignorant people in my life.

Look in the mirror lately?

Yes, I'm a conservative Jew too, but not quite as religious, I take most of my learning into moral and cultural aspects..

Which no Reform Jews do, right? :rolleyes:

..I don't think Reform Jews can really call themselves Jews.

A person can call oneself whatever they wish. The key is determining what qualification one wishes to use to make the "who is a Jew" judgment. Do you actually have one, or is this simply the result of you observing Reform practices and judging them too different from your own culture level to "count"?

The one Reform Jewish congregation that lives near me takes place in a church

An actual church? A building that used to be a church? Do you know WHY they're there? Maybe they can't afford to build a synagogue. There are plenty of Orthodox shteibeleh all over the world. Does that disqualify its congregants from being "real Jews"?

their Bar/Bat Mitzvah's aren't in Hebrew

My understanding is that an actual Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremony is not halakhically required, so that point is moot.

they have services once a month

First, is this actually the case? Second, is that a product of Reform Judaism as an ideology, or more a function of the unique characteristics of their congregation? Maybe they don't have a lot of congregants, forcing them to hold services less often. Maybe there simply isn't a lot of interest among THAT congregation. None of your examples in any way invalidate any of the central ideological tenets of Reform Judaism as a movement or denomination. That would be like me trying to delegitimize all of Orthodox Judaism based on observing and dissaproving of one Chabad House.

listen, if you are still having problems with the major sects, have you considered Chabad?

Chabad's main mission is in getting people to practice Chabad's brand of Orthodox Judaism. Those disinclined towards that particular path are not likely to be well-received.

How could God allow the Holocaust?

Holocaust historian Yehuda Brauer spends several chapters discussing this in his excellent book, "Rethinking the Holocaust". You might want to check it out.

Incidentally, it has become fashionable among some Orthodox Jews- particularly certain Hasidic sects- to say the Holocaust was divine punishment for Jewish secularization, particularly Zionism. The most famous proponents of this view were Yoel Teitelbaum, the former Satmar Rebbe, and, interestingly enough, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the Chabad Rebbe (this despite the fact that nowadays his followers claim there can be "no possible answer" to such a question).

A very interesting topic.

There is no 'Hell' as it is commonly viewed. There's no fire, not torture, no eternal pain and misery. In fact, the afterlife can be viewed as two seperate rooms. In each room there is a table heaped with food, with people sitting on both sides. However, everybody's arms are twice as long as normal and they can't get their food to their mouths. In one room the people are all simply sitting there, staring at the food. In the other room everyone is eating, for they are picking up the food and putting it in the mouths of those across from them.


This is beautiful. We cannot live if we do not cooperate. We must learn how to give in order to take.

This is beautiful. We cannot live if we do not cooperate. We must learn how to give in order to take.

I am reminded of a quote by one of the former Ashkenazi Chief Rabbis of Israel, Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau:

“We always knew how to die together. The time has come for us to know also how to live together.”

No, Jesus was not a prophet (for us Jews)

"Jew" is not general a racial slur, but it depends on the context.

I wasnt going to post, but I lost my control button. :) (In a I'm too curious way, not be obnoxious/ pissed away). I thought Jesus was *A* prophet, but the problem was that he wasn't THE prophet, nor the Son of God. Or am I mixing my 15 year old Catholocism up? :)

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

He did a horrible thing that has caused horrible reprecussions, but the only one who can condemn him to Hell is God and, the last time I checked, I'm not God. I don't know his reasons, his history, or even his methods.

Are you sure? Have you checked that you're not wearing Her underwear? Haven't used His shaver? *saintly smile*

Wait, there's Turkey Ham? Really? I was under the impression that Ham referred specifically to pig.

There's "Vegetarian Hot Dogs" too. That doesn't mean the hot dogs have meat in them, just that they are made to pretend to be hot dogs (they're really Soy. Morningstar Farms is the best fake-meat company!). Turkey Ham would then be turkey pretending to be ham. I would think.

Is it too late to ask new questions?

I, myself, and Christian and my roommate / apartment-mate is Jewish. On many occassions he has stated that since we Christians have copied the Jewish traditions and religious books to make our own, that we interprete them in a naive way. By that I mean that most of us Christians think of God as someone / something that should not be disrespected by having a disagreement with him. My Jewish roommate likes to tell the stories of Abraham and Moses having a variety of discussions with God that actually caused God to do something different. To me this seems inconsistent with other Jewish beliefs and traditions that I've been told about. Are his opinions typical? If so, could you help me understand how they are not in conflict with such "extreme" signs of respect as leaving out a letter in His name? (That is the reason, right?)

Also, I saw the post about some Jews who are anxiously waiting for the Messiah to arrive very soon, and that this should coincide with the rebuilding of the temple. Many Christians, including my mother, believe that the Messiah with come (back) very soon. Do you have any thoughts on how these beliefs / hopes / visions of the future compare to each other?

Much earlier in this thread, I read about comparison of Heaven and Hell between the Christian and Jewish religions. I just wanted to point out that the Christian New Testament does not actually describe Hell as a Firery place of torture. Jesus's quotes, in the Four Gospels, are actually almost identical to the ones listed here for modern Jewish beliefs -- the "bad" place is described as a dark place where there will be nashing of teeth and lementing for having missed the chance to do what was right when the chance had existed. He also never describes Heaven, he only says that he is going to make a place in the afterlife for his followers. The only mention of a firery place of torment is within the Book of Revelations. In this book there are actually two places for the "bad." One is a bottomless pit of darkness, which is obviously just a modification of the "normal" hell/hades. The "lake of fire" is the other one, but only certain people or certain demons get thrown into it. (I'll have to look up the exact details on who/what gets thrown in to it.) The modern concept of a firery, torturous hell actually comes from Christian traditions that sprang up long after Paul finished writing his letters that form the bulk of our New Testament. Additional: On the subject of heaven, the book of Revelation does also mention a city called "New Jerusalem" which is above the sky and the angels go up and down to and from it. Although very few churches teach this detail, the dimensions given by the author (possibly editted later by later scholars?) make this glorious city to be exactly the right size to have been carved out of the moon.

antisemitism is bad

what is this book protocols of the learned elders of zion is it a true book or a hoax! :rolleyes:

I wasnt going to post, but I lost my control button. :) (In a I'm too curious way, not be obnoxious/ pissed away). I thought Jesus was *A* prophet, but the problem was that he wasn't THE prophet, nor the Son of God. Or am I mixing my 15 year old Catholocism up? :)

I think you're thinking of Islam (which has Jesus as *A* prophet, but Mohammed as THE prophet). In Judaism Jesus was just some guy who got the short end of the stick. He might have led an exceptionally saintly life but he wasn't particularly touched by God in any way.

I, myself, and Christian and my roommate / apartment-mate is Jewish. On many occassions he has stated that since we Christians have copied the Jewish traditions and religious books to make our own, that we interprete them in a naive way. By that I mean that most of us Christians think of God as someone / something that should not be disrespected by having a disagreement with him. My Jewish roommate likes to tell the stories of Abraham and Moses having a variety of discussions with God that actually caused God to do something different. To me this seems inconsistent with other Jewish beliefs and traditions that I've been told about. Are his opinions typical? If so, could you help me understand how they are not in conflict with such "extreme" signs of respect as leaving out a letter in His name? (That is the reason, right?)

Well, it varies. I think an analogy would be well used here. Think of God as a human, and humans as his pet dogs. He's a lot smarter than we are, he cares for us, and when he says "sit" you damn well better sit. However, there are times when the thoughts and actions of a pet dog can make an owner re-think an action. We can't make him do anything he doesn't want and most things we'd want him to do wouldn't be good to do, but it's still our duty to speak up when our noses detect a bad smell. Also, the leaving out the letter thing is addressed either earlier on this page or at the end of the previous page.

Also, I saw the post about some Jews who are anxiously waiting for the Messiah to arrive very soon, and that this should coincide with the rebuilding of the temple. Many Christians, including my mother, believe that the Messiah with come (back) very soon. Do you have any thoughts on how these beliefs / hopes / visions of the future compare to each other?

The Messiah? Dude, I'm not touching that one with a ten foot pole. There are so many different beliefs about the Messiah that I don't know which Jewish belief is the "real" one. People believe he came already, he's about to come, he'll never come, even some Jews believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah (That specific sect was discussed earlier in the thread as well). I, personally, believe that the Messiah is still a long way off. The Messiah will come when humanity is ready, when the different races and nations manage to live in peace and the different religions unite in one faith (even if that one faith isn't Judaism). Though I do think Humanity can (and will) eventually reach that point, it will take a while. However, that's just me and the I'm not even going to say that I speak for any Jew besides myself.

what is this book protocols of the learned elders of zion is it a true book or a hoax! :rolleyes:

I have no idea, I've never even heard of this book except when people mention it on NS as proof of the "Jewish Conspiracy"

Okay, I saw that "Ask a Latter Day Saint" thread and thought "Why not do the same?"

A lot of people are clueless as to the practices and beliefs of Judaism. I don't claim to be a master of the subject (I don't speak Hebrew, I need a calendar to remember when all the Holidays are, and I don't know even a tiny percentage of the history and teachings) but I am better informed than the majority of Earths populace.

So, if you have any questions about Judaism feel free to ask them here. I will answer to the best of my knowledge, but please do not expect exact and perfect explanations. What I don't know I will attempt to look up for you, and if I can't find it I will tell you so. I'll try not to make up to much stuff, but I make no promises ;)

Who's first?
greetings klonor. how are you all?

the Commonwealth of terran individualists has instructed me to send this question in the hopels fo elucidation and worldide well beingL what doe sthe teram 'people of the book' mean to you?

best to you,
dr v jones
CTI international relations

I have no idea, I've never even heard of this book except when people mention it on NS as proof of the "Jewish Conspiracy"
greetings again.

the perspective i have heard is that the protocols were created by someone who did not like peope of the hebrew extraction and wrote it to foster cultural emnity. it is so convincing that i hear it has even fooled some Jewish people.

we of the terran Individualist commonwealth strongly advise against all forms of cultural prejudice.

stop by anytime!

all the best
dr v. jones
CTI International Relations Chair

TI, this isn't the RP forums. You don't need to worry about posting as if you were sending a national transmission.

Anyay, 'People of the Book' is (I think) the official Islamic view of Judaism (Or it's just a general view of Judaism and I'm attributing it to Islam incorrectly). 'The Book' I assume is referring to the various holy books (Torah, Talmud, etc.). The books that have Gods commandments, the laws governing praryer, etc.

It's supposedly a term of respect, meaning we're one of the groups that follows Gods teachings.

[I, personally, believe that the Messiah is still a long way off. The Messiah will come when humanity is ready, when the different races and nations manage to live in peace and the different religions unite in one faith (even if that one faith isn't Judaism). Though I do think Humanity can (and will) eventually reach that point, it will take a while. However, that's just me and the I'm not even going to say that I speak for any Jew besides myself.[/QUOTE]

That makes for an interesting contrast. It has been my experience that most Christians believe that Jesus will return after we have f**ked up the world and have all turned away from the laws given by God through Moses and thus to the world through the Jews. This particular Christian belief is based largely on a scripture in Revelations stating that just before His return, that life "will be as in the days of Noah." Obviously there are a lot of ways of interpreting a phrase like that, but the idea that Noah was basically the only good person left and that the "end of the world" will occur during a similar situation is a corner stone of most Christian end of the world belief systems. I guess I'm curious about why you (as an individual at least) are so much more optimistic about the future than most Christians. --I think that most Christians would probably benefit from a little more hope like that. Also, can you recommend some "happy ending" scriptures / prophecies that I should read?

Related to this, I have been told that many Christians didn't want to stop Hitler, because they thought that he was the prophesied "Anti-Christ," and that when the world got just a tiny bit worse, Jesus would return and the whole world would end. How they thought that they personally would be better off, and not judged and then punished, for selfishly wanting the world to end instead of doing what was right is beyond me though.

Earlier in this thread someone refered to Abraham as the the first "jew." Doesn't the word "jew" come from the name "Judah," and originally mean someone who either is descented from Judah or someone who believes the same things that Judah believed? Obviously, Judah's beliefs come from Abraham's, so I'm not trying to be arguementative, but I am curious if I have correctly understood the origin of the term.

As for spelling God as G-d, perhaps I should apologize, but I can't find the explanation that you described. Could you help me by telling me where to look? or even by repeating the explanation?