NationStates Jolt Archive

I know that a lot of people have questions and misconceptions about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). I would like to answer any questions any of you might have. Let me make this very clear though: this is not a debate, simply a discussion. I would appreciate it if people would only ask questions, not shoot down and find faults with the Church. I am here to answer questions and misconceptions, not to argue. Bring on the questions! (:

Okay. Raysia, back in the day, had a discussion about how the Mormon church baptizes people posthumously into their church. Is this true?

Is it true you don't drink coffee, soda, hot chocolate, etc. I've been to a Mormon Chruch before because my babysiter's family was Mormon so I got to go for a service or two.

The Mormons have, in the past, discriminated against black people. Even to this day, some congregations treat black people as second-class citizens. Even their fellow mormons. How did this come about seeing as how Jesus was most likely not white?

Is it true you don't drink coffee, soda, hot chocolate, etc. I've been to a Mormon Chruch before because my babysiter's family was Mormon so I got to go for a service or two.
My neighbors are Mormon and they don't drink that stuff, that doesn't of course speak for everyone in the religion. They also did a lot of things that I detest, like taking away all their kids fun and leaving them with no personal authority over their own lives. Ugh. I feel dirty just thinking about it.

Again, not indicitive of the whole religion, it just seems to promote that inherantly through their "family values" and womens places being in the home blah blah blah...

Misconception?
Very well, isnt it try that the LDS church believes:
1.God was once a mortal man, who Ascended(pierced the Veil, whatever wording you wish) and was raised to the Deified State?
2.That any man might acheive this State of Deification, hence becoming an equal to God?

Im from Utah, but not a Mormon! I take seminary and my GF has a Mormon family. Most of the mormons I know that are MY age are good people. But most of the other ones in our ward are fucking judgemental cunts who have nothing better to do than hate me and my family because we are not as Mormon as them. I will tell you the whole story in about an hour

brb

Since I am LDS too I'll answer qhat I can before I go to sleep for school. Don't want to impede in the guys topic so I won't answer much.

The Mormons have, in the past, discriminated against black people. Even to this day, some congregations treat black people as second-class citizens. Even their fellow mormons. How did this come about seeing as how Jesus was most likely not white?

I'm not sure what you mean. Jesus wasn't black anyway. That is a falacy. Even if they did discriminate to blacks (which I don't believe is true) that wouldn't have anything to do with Jesus's color. Jesus was darker than average person. Closer to Native American in color, but not exactly there. Definately not African.
Congregations? What is a congregation?
Do you mean ward, branch, or something?

Misconception?
Very well, isnt it try that the LDS church believes:
1.God was once a mortal man, who Ascended(pierced the Veil, whatever wording you wish) and was raised to the Deified State?
2.That any man might acheive this State of Deification, hence becoming an equal to God?

What you mean any man acheive a deification?
Jesus gained his power of Godhood on earth. Remember the words loosely translated(I'm sleeping so I'm probably missing a verb or a noun somewhere): Reclaim the power I once knew before the world was.
He was the one who Heavenly Father allowed to create the world. This was agreed to back in the Preexistance. In Heaven, at the great council.

God, no he was never a mortal man. Jesus was. Do you mean God as in All-mighty? Or God as in Govt of heaven?
You see THe Holy Ghost, Heavenly Father, and Jesus are all part of the Govt.
Thus they are God. Same as every member of X-men are X-men.
Point 1:
Anyway, yes Jesus was born on earth to clear up many issues that man got wrong and restore salvation. Yes he went to Heaven, that is nothing major. What you mean Ascended? And yes he is back in Heaven right now. I don't see how Ascended is special? We all die and go to Paradise. So yes he got to skip Paradise and go directly to Celestrial kingdom. But then again he was judged long ago so he had that break. And yes he stayed worthy of Celestrial Kingdom.

Point 2: Yes we can all reach Celestrial kingdom if we are worthy. And yes if you reach it you might be like a God but then again. This was stated by in old testament so its not new.


south park once told their story of the beginning of the mormon religion, if you've seen it, what'd you think about it?
Pretty decent. No top hat though.

The Mormons have, in the past, discriminated against black people. Even to this day, some congregations treat black people as second-class citizens. Even their fellow mormons. How did this come about seeing as how Jesus was most likely not white?



They say God marked Cain with black or something after he committed the first murder and that decendants of Cain are blacks, am I right Pioneer Valley?

Do you really wear special underwear?

south park once told their story of the beginning of the mormon religion, if you've seen it, what'd you think about it?

Most people dont know why Mormons are called Mormons. The whole JC LDS thing is sort of a front.

Mormons worship Morma, the Golden Prince.

Joseph Smith found him under a rock in Massachusetts and took him to Utah, where Brigham Young shot him with a musket and took Morma as his own.

This wasnt a bad thing because Mr. Young knew something that Mr. Smith did not - namely that washing Morma (who was at this point brown like a troll) in the sacred brine of the Great Salt Lake would turn his skin to gold.

This is why Morma is the Golden Prince.

south park once told their story of the beginning of the mormon religion, if you've seen it, what'd you think about it?



That was so funny, the "Joseph Smith is dumb dumb dumb....." song made me laugh so hard.

you opened up a can of worms pioneer valley, and then left it to overflow. for anyone seriously believing that some of these people claiming to be "mormon's" or to know of the story of "morma" is ridiculous. #1)any person on the internet could claim to be something they're not i.e.I am the president of the United States (did you belive me?). #2)If you want to know correct information go to the source i.e. those white shirt and tie guys with the black nametags who ride around on bikes are always willing to explain and answer questions (they all respond to the name Elder). finally, that story about morma and the guy claiming to be a mormon (the one who kept on using tiredness to excuse faulty explanations of doctrines) are both way off base.

MORAL: listening to crack pots on the internet and then believing them is a extremly suspect way to get information especially about a subject so important as other people's beliefs, like them or not, everyone has the same right to believe what they do.

be wise and ask a trustworthy source. go be good, --i'm out!

Are you as a Mormon going to answer any of these questions?

...to know of the story of "morma" is ridiculous... ...finally, that story about morma...


That first use of quote marks is a transparent attempt to obfuscate the truth about Morma and Mormons by making it look like you are only using the Name because I did.

The second time you let your natural familiarity with the Name come though, no quote marks...

"that story about morma" is as familiar sounding as "that story about dogs"

Also, you are ridiculous for trying to shade the truth from the light of everyone's eyes!

me?

You're right. How could I. shame on me. I tried i guess, but your superior logic and vocabulary won in the end.

me?


There is no doubt...

hey, I thought the story was funny, an obvious atempt at humor. faulty but funny

hey, I thought the story was funny, an obvious atempt at humor. faulty but funny

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

You shouldnt deny it the big guy in the sky will hold YOU to account one day~!

the

me?

post was for blacklisted. I was asking if he was expecting that I answer any questions. I think it's obvious that by my post i don't think that getting info off of someone claiming to know the truth on some message board isn't the best way to do it. i suggested you talk to the elders. you could also look their number up in the phone book by the church's name The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You could also go to the official website at www.lds.org or call 18885371212 toll free for a free bible and other info on the church. you can give them your address where you want the bible sent and also ask that additional info be sent or even that two representatives of the church visit you to answer questions. please take this opportunity or challenge, however you want to see it. it will change your lives for the better, much better. it sure did mine, regardless of what anyone wants to say against it or me. have fun.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

You shouldnt deny it the big guy in the sky will hold YOU to account one day~!


I don't think God will get too hung up on one joke, given world hunger, war and pollution are much more important topics, wouldn't you agree?

1. When I asked some of the travelling missionaries (that's what you call them right?) about the differences between the Mormon Church and other Christian religions, they told me that they were taught that the only Christian relgion that even approaches a similar truth is the Catholic Church. Is this something that is taught or common knowledge within the Mormon faith or was this more of a sales pitch to appeal to a Catholic listener?

2. Why are female missionaries not allowed to meet with single parents? I had a pair of missionaries come to my door several months ago and I talked with them for a few minutes. They were drop dead beautiful! They asked to arrange for a second meeting time so they could also meet with my wife and when I told them I was a single parent they got weird looks on their faces and told me that they weren't allowed to meet with any single parents. Then they said they knew some male missionaries in the area who could meet with a single parent. The tone of voice changed from pleasant to harsh the second they discovered I wasn't married and it was extremely offensive to me.

3. Why aren't you answering any questions?

There is an illustrated story of Mormonism available here on the world wide web:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/


Learn what it has to say.

to thunderland:
I'm not answering because just like the other jokers i could be claiming to be something i'm not and i don't want to encourage the passing on of bad misinformation. I'm not trying to avoid questions and i would like to answer you but i did give four different ways to gain information. e-mail me privately and i can try to answewr questions.

in answer to the missioraries response: i was a missionary in brasil for two years. we as men are not allowed to visit women alone neither are the sister's allowed to visit with men alone because of the situation that would put them and you in. as you said, they were beautiful. people, as much as they should mind their own business, talk. they spread rumors and the only way to avoid that is to make sure no question can be made of the missionaries conduct. i am sorry that you felt embarrassed and offended, i'm sure that was not their intention.

drop the morma thing. i don't doubt the story has been dreamed up, but its existence on the internet does not prove its veracity. go to the OFFICIAL site of the church i gave earlier to learn truth (or go to the morma site if you want to remain in ignorance, its up to you but i wouldn't suppose to be an expert on jehovahs witness doctrine just by reading the site of a non-official person)

to thunderland:
I'm not answering because just like the other jokers i could be claiming to be something i'm not and i don't want to encourage the passing on of bad misinformation. I'm not trying to avoid questions and i would like to answer you but i did give four different ways to gain information. e-mail me privately and i can try to answewr questions.

in answer to the missioraries response: i was a missionary in brasil for two years. we as men are not allowed to visit women alone neither are the sister's allowed to visit with men alone because of the situation that would put them and you in. as you said, they were beautiful. people, as much as they should mind their own business, talk. they spread rumors and the only way to avoid that is to make sure no question can be made of the missionaries conduct. i am sorry that you felt embarrassed and offended, i'm sure that was not their intention.

You weren't the thread's originator so I wasn't trying to be harsh with you. Your answer about the missionaries certainly does make a lot of sense though and it is appreciated. I can see the bind it might put anyone in and I think had they explained that to me it would have put an awkward situation to ease quite quickly.

I've lived in Utah for almost 6 years, so in that time I've learned a lot of stuff.

Somebody asked about underwear? That's the undergarment. Those worthy enough to be "Temple Worthy" and enter the temple get these on their wedding day. This is also when they get their Heavenly name.

The thing about coffee and stuff is to rid yourself of addictions. Caffiene and nicotine can cause addictions so they try to keep their people off of that stuff.

I don't know it all, but I think I know a fair deal. I'd answer any questions for anybody if they wanted.

Question: Do you really think it's okay to rescind your church's position on caffeine (which is to say, it's bad in all circumstances because it alters your body's natural processes, even if to a limited extent) and allow you to drink Pepsi products just because the church elders buy Pepsi stock?

i'm sorry. i just checked out that morma site, and i'm appalled that anyone could believe it. through easy research you can find that Joseph smith was born in Vermont in the early 18oo's(1805 or 06) and that he was killed in carthage IL before every arriving in Utah. i mean it's so elementary that it's humorous. I can see that i may have offended you and i'm sorry, you were misled by an odd websight, prove it to yourself by seeing how many other places confirm the morma gold story. it's completely off base

hey, i've said my piece, and given suggestions for finding more, correct sources of info. call or research official sites and numbers, so i'm done now. if you want to know the truth that's the only way to do it. good luck.

God will get you in the end for obfuscating the truth with your lies ChristSaint.

Dont tell the people not to learn the truth, it will set you free!

http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

Is it true that Mormons don't acknowledge Jesus as the human incarnate of God the Father. That your religion believes we as humans are all "Sons" and "Daughters" of God.? Are you encouraged to have a lot of children so you can populate your own planet? And what about all the negative things I've heard about the founder Joseph Smith...stealing, pedophilia etc.? There are so many things I've heard and most of it negative I'm sorry to say.

Mormonism teaches polytheism (versus monotheism taught in the Bible), believing that the universe is inhabited by many gods who produce spirit children. Joseph Smith declared, "I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370). Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie spoke about the Godhead in this way, "Plurality of Gods: Three separate personages: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods" (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577).

Mormonism teaches that Jesus, Lucifer, and all the demons, as well as all mankind, are actually all spirit brothers and sisters, born in the spirit world as spirit babies to our man-god Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. Mormon leaders have consistently taught that God the Father ("Adam-god") had sexual relations :( on earth with Mary (his own spirit daughter), to produce the physical body of Jesus. Early Mormon apostles also asserted that Christ was a polygamist, and that His wives included Mary and Martha (the sisters of Lazarus) and Mary Magdalene.

Please explain some of this. I'd like to think this is all wrong. :confused:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/mormon.htm

http://www.carm.org/lds/unveiled.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4809/mormon.html

http://www.feedmysheep.co.uk/BibleStudies/apologetics/tenreasonstonotbecomeamormon.asp

Ahem, thought I might mention, PV is not me... although, I am LDS :)

PV, what's your S/N? Telegram me please :)

Since I am LDS too I'll answer qhat I can before I go to sleep for school. Don't want to impede in the guys topic so I won't answer much.





What you mean any man acheive a deification?
Jesus gained his power of Godhood on earth. Remember the words loosely translated(I'm sleeping so I'm probably missing a verb or a noun somewhere): Reclaim the power I once knew before the world was.
He was the one who Heavenly Father allowed to create the world. This was agreed to back in the Preexistance. In Heaven, at the great council.

God, no he was never a mortal man. Jesus was. Do you mean God as in All-mighty? Or God as in Govt of heaven?
You see THe Holy Ghost, Heavenly Father, and Jesus are all part of the Govt.
Thus they are God. Same as every member of X-men are X-men.
Point 1:
Anyway, yes Jesus was born on earth to clear up many issues that man got wrong and restore salvation. Yes he went to Heaven, that is nothing major. What you mean Ascended? And yes he is back in Heaven right now. I don't see how Ascended is special? We all die and go to Paradise. So yes he got to skip Paradise and go directly to Celestrial kingdom. But then again he was judged long ago so he had that break. And yes he stayed worthy of Celestrial Kingdom.
Point 2: Yes we can all reach Celestrial kingdom if we are worthy. And yes if you reach it you might be like a God but then again. This was stated by in old testament so its not new.
Pretty decent. No top hat though.
Well, according to Timeless Questions Gospel Insights, Lecture 3, "Human Nature and Divine Nature" Truman G. Madsen, Latter Day Saint Scholar, Also see Lorenzo Snow and Also According to Joseph Smith Himself in the King Follet Discourse.
God was yes a man.
Who raised up to the position of Deity.
That yes each man may Equal the Lord God Almighty,
That upon reaching this state of Deification(though they use softer language) Men who have achieved God status will then create their own univereses and so forth and so on in some strange version of the cycle of life.
Not everymen will achieve this state-but every man has the potential.
So whatwere saying again?
Oh yesI forgot to mention I used attend an LDS church and did serious research into it to decide to remove my family from it upon deciding it was in no way Christian.

There is a useful strand from about 14 hours ago on mormons that will anwer lots of questions. I am LDS, but I don't have the time or the patience to deal with all these questions individually, so I'm going to summarize our religion in 13 simple statements that are called the articles of faith. These were writtne by Joeseph Smith to clear up misconceptions about the LDS church.

The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.


2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.


3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.


4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.


5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.


6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.


7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.


8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.


9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.


10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.


11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.


12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.


13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.


There is our religion in a nutshell and anything you find that speaks contrary to this is false.

Is it true you guys think the garden of eden is a parking lot?

Okay. Raysia, back in the day, had a discussion about how the Mormon church baptizes people posthumously into their church. Is this true?

Wow, I didn't expect to have this many questions...(:

No, that is not true. "Baptisms for the dead" are actions where someone is baptised in proxy for a deceased person who has not been baptised. We do not baptise dead bodies. It is then up to the deceased person to accept the ordinance or reject it.

Is it true you don't drink coffee, soda, hot chocolate, etc. I've been to a Mormon Chruch before because my babysiter's family was Mormon so I got to go for a service or two.

We belive in following the Word of Wisdom, a guideline that God has given us regarding foods, drugs, ect. There is a part in this that refers to "hot drinks," which the prophets have told us refers to tea and coffee, whether they be warmed up or not.

And you mindlessly believe what these "prophets" tell you?

The Mormons have, in the past, discriminated against black people. Even to this day, some congregations treat black people as second-class citizens. Even their fellow mormons. How did this come about seeing as how Jesus was most likely not white?

If Latter-day Saints are treating balck people as second-class citizens then they are not doing anything which the Church teaches. In fact, they are going against what the Church teaches.

"Discrimination" is not a correct term to use. Dark skinned people, until the 1970's, were unable to hold the Priesthood. This is because it was understood that they are descendants of Cain, who, along with many, many, many, many of his generations, was to be cursed. This curse lasted until the 1970's, when the Church released an official document stating that every worthy male member of the Church could hold the Priesthood. Many of these types of documents can be found in the "Scriptures" section of the official Church website.

They say God marked Cain with black or something after he committed the first murder and that decendants of Cain are blacks, am I right Pioneer Valley?

In the words of Fonzy: "Correctamundo!"

Do you really wear special underwear?

After a certain age, all Latter-day Saints are asked to wear garments under their clothing. This is to serve as a reminder to your eternal companion, and to keep you chaste.

i.e. : a final reminder before commiting adultery

Most people dont know why Mormons are called Mormons. The whole JC LDS thing is sort of a front.

Mormons worship Morma, the Golden Prince.

Joseph Smith found him under a rock in Massachusetts and took him to Utah, where Brigham Young shot him with a musket and took Morma as his own.

This wasnt a bad thing because Mr. Young knew something that Mr. Smith did not - namely that washing Morma (who was at this point brown like a troll) in the sacred brine of the Great Salt Lake would turn his skin to gold.

This is why Morma is the Golden Prince.

I have no idea where you got this idea. Latter-day Saints are nick-named Mormons because of the Book of Mormon. There is no such person as Morna. This whole story is extremely fictional. The person on the top of the temples is a statue of Moroni, a prophet in the Book of Mormon.

Are you as a Mormon going to answer any of these questions?

Already have...

you opened up a can of worms pioneer valley, and then left it to overflow. for anyone seriously believing that some of these people claiming to be "mormon's" or to know of the story of "morma" is ridiculous. #1)any person on the internet could claim to be something they're not i.e.I am the president of the United States (did you belive me?). #2)If you want to know correct information go to the source i.e. those white shirt and tie guys with the black nametags who ride around on bikes are always willing to explain and answer questions (they all respond to the name Elder). finally, that story about morma and the guy claiming to be a mormon (the one who kept on using tiredness to excuse faulty explanations of doctrines) are both way off base.

MORAL: listening to crack pots on the internet and then believing them is a extremly suspect way to get information especially about a subject so important as other people's beliefs, like them or not, everyone has the same right to believe what they do.

be wise and ask a trustworthy source. go be good, --i'm out!

Yes, the best source is the missionaries, or the official site, but many people ignore these things.

Yes, the best source is the missionaries, or the official site, but many people ignore these things.

That is a falsehood.

The best resource on the internet for detailed information about Mormonism is
http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/


read it and see for yourself

What is the deal with Blood Atonement? I have heard that there are some sins that Jesus blood cannot forgive. Thereforth the temple memembers take it upon themselves to kill the offending person in the name of Blood Atonement. Some of the sins are interracial marriage, adultury, and speaking out agaisnt the church if you were a Temple memember that was going to tell the "secret" of the temple.

Blood Atonement (http://www.exmormon.org/bloodatn.htm)

Also can you explain this pentagram on your temple in Salt Lake? Actually its an inverted pentagram.

http://www.cryfromthedust.net/logantemplestar.jpg

How can the Mormon follow "The Book of Mormon" in which Joseph Smith claims it was the lost chapter of the Bible. HOWEVER the Bible Galathians 1:8 says that anyone who adds to the Bible is to be foresaken.

Also this thing saying that man (if follow the temple teaching and rituals) can become God of their own planet. Yet, one of the Ten Commandment, in fact the first one says that We should not have any Gods before the one true God?

Finally, how come no Mormon church or temple has the Cross, but yet, has statues of Joseph Smith?

Finally, how come no Mormon church or temple has the Cross, but yet, has statues of Joseph Smith?


Because they worship Morma the Golden Prince instead of Jesus.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

That is a falsehood.

The best resource on the internet for detailed information about Mormonism is
http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/


read it and see for yourself

New Granada...If this Morma thing is true why aren't there any other websites dedicated to this? I mean, one source does not convince me...

I have heard that part of the Mormon doctrine commands that Moromons obey the government. What happens when a government declaires Mormonism illegal, such as is happening in Russia?

What is the deal with Blood Atonement? I have heard that there are some sins that Jesus blood cannot forgive. Thereforth the temple memembers take it upon themselves to kill the offending person in the name of Blood Atonement. Some of the sins are interracial marriage, adultury, and speaking out agaisnt the church if you were a Temple memember that was going to tell the "secret" of the temple.

Blood Atonement (http://www.exmormon.org/bloodatn.htm)

Also can you explain this pentagram on your temple in Salt Lake? Actually its an inverted pentagram.

http://www.cryfromthedust.net/logantemplestar.jpg

How can the Mormon follow "The Book of Mormon" in which Joseph Smith claims it was the lost chapter of the Bible. HOWEVER the Bible Galathians 1:8 says that anyone who adds to the Bible is to be foresaken.

Also this thing saying that man (if follow the temple teaching and rituals) can become God of their own planet. Yet, one of the Ten Commandment, in fact the first one says that We should not have any Gods before the one true God?

Finally, how come no Mormon church or temple has the Cross, but yet, has statues of Joseph Smith?

One of my friends actually has the book collection mentioned in your link. It's kind of scary. We asked a few LDS teachers of ours at school about the writings and they pretty much said "well yeah we don't believe that anymore."

I have a hard time dealing with a religion that changes just to please people. I don't think the bible said anything about changing it just so people would like it.

New Granada...If this Morma thing is true why aren't there any other websites dedicated to this?


Who can say?

Okay, this isn't my thread and I have no business being here (since I have neither a question nor an answer to anothers question) but I would like to say that New Granada is either wrong or purposefully trolling, that web-site is complete and total bullshit. I mean it'd be more accurate for me to say that America was founded by Nazis exiled from Jamaica. Do not believe that web-site or what New Granada says about it, it is not true. I am in fact considering going to the Mods with a request that he stop, but I'm not really sure if he really is trolling or is just wrong (which is understandable).

New Granada, I'm not trying to be mean (Well, maybe a little bit), but please stop posting that thread everywhere. You are not convincing anybody (At least I hope you aren't) and are just making true discussions that much harder.

"Discrimination" is not a correct term to use. Dark skinned people, until the 1970's, were unable to hold the Priesthood. This is because it was understood that they are descendants of Cain, who, along with many, many, many, many of his generations, was to be cursed.
A mormon of my aquaintaince once said in relation to this issue, "Well, I know we're not supposed to discriminate...But God can!"
Does this accurately describe your church's view of the issue?

What is the deal with Blood Atonement? I have heard that there are some sins that Jesus blood cannot forgive. Thereforth the temple memembers take it upon themselves to kill the offending person in the name of Blood Atonement. Some of the sins are interracial marriage, adultury, and speaking out agaisnt the church if you were a Temple memember that was going to tell the "secret" of the temple.

Blood Atonement (http://www.exmormon.org/bloodatn.htm)

Also can you explain this pentagram on your temple in Salt Lake? Actually its an inverted pentagram.

http://www.cryfromthedust.net/logantemplestar.jpg

How can the Mormon follow "The Book of Mormon" in which Joseph Smith claims it was the lost chapter of the Bible. HOWEVER the Bible Galathians 1:8 says that anyone who adds to the Bible is to be foresaken.

Also this thing saying that man (if follow the temple teaching and rituals) can become God of their own planet. Yet, one of the Ten Commandment, in fact the first one says that We should not have any Gods before the one true God?

Finally, how come no Mormon church or temple has the Cross, but yet, has statues of Joseph Smith?

1. We do not kill members who might tell about the sacred things that happen in the temple. The only unforgivable sin, is to truly have known God, and have a perfect knowledge of him, and to deny him. ALso, please do not confuse "sacred" with "secret."

2. We do not claim the Book of Mormon to be a "lost chapter" of the Bible. You also have to remember that the Bible is a collection of books, not really one book in itself. That scripture refers to Galatians only.

3. The "pentagram" as you call it, is a star. We put stars, moons, and suns on our temples to signify the three degrees of glory.

4. It is not known if we will have our own planet if we become gods. I don't really worry about it since knowledge like that is not really necessary for salvation. Yes, we believe that we can becomes God's equals, but we only believe in worshipping God.

5. First of all, those are not statues of Joseph Smith on top of the temples. Those are statues of the prophet Moroni, who was the last Nephite in the Book of Mormon. Secondly, we do not believe in carrying around crosses and such because they have become somewhat like idols. Some believe that the cross will save you and things like that, but it is Jesus who will save you, not a cross. We don't advertise other things like the word "Jesus" and such because we believe that certain sacred things should not just be out and about. We believe that it's irreverant.

It's obviously a joke, how can you people be so stupid?

I agree. If you talk with any decent historian, he or she will tell you that there is no ounce of truth in it.

Is it Mormons who think that only 40,000 or 400,000 will be saved? or is that jehovah's witnesses?

What is your opinion of Joseph Smith? I've read a biography of him and I can't say he is a nice person to any one and his death was very messy. As a prophet he behaved very badly.

2. How come in the Book of Mormon, it says that god, christ, and the holy ghost are the same being? I can't remember what verse it is, but I know it's in there.


I'm no holy rollin' bible thumper, but isn't it a standard christian belief that god, christ and the holy ghost are the same being, the trinity, 3 persons in one god and all that? I mean if god is god and christ is god, and they aren't the same being, that makes 2 gods and i thought there can be only one.

Is it Mormons who think that only 40,000 or 400,000 will be saved? or is that jehovah's witnesses?

That's the JW's, and it's 144,000. 12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel according to Revelations.

I agree. If you talk with any decent historian, he or she will tell you that there is no ounce of truth in it.


What you are proposing is asking the head of the American Nazi Party whether the holocaust really occurred, and asking him or her to characterize the leadership of Adolf Hitler.

Not a SINGLE person has posted a SINGLE reliable counterexample to the truth about Mormonism's history.

Mormon websites DO NOT COUNT they have a religously fundementalist bias.
It's like going to a christian fundementalist website for valid information on christianity.

So again, the truth stands for all to see at http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

That's the JW's, and it's 144,000. 12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel according to Revelations.

Well they're stuffed then aren't they? Good reason to not be a JW cos you're never going to get saved unless a) your jewish and b) you're at the head of the queue

What you are proposing is asking the head of the American Nazi Party whether the holocaust really occurred, and asking him or her to characterize the leadership of Adolf Hitler.

Not a SINGLE person has posted a SINGLE reliable counterexample to the truth about Mormonism's history.

Mormon websites DO NOT COUNT they have a religously fundementalist bias.
It's like going to a christian fundementalist website for valid information on christianity.

So again, the truth stands for all to see at http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

OK, so I make a blog with some stupid ideas about how the US was born out of the butt of a chicken, with a picture of a chicken, and then you are surprised that there aren't any websites stating clearly that the US was not born out of the butt of a chicken.

Well they're stuffed then aren't they? Good reason to not be a JW cos you're never going to get saved unless a) your jewish and b) you're at the head of the queue

They also said it was going to happen a specific year in the 70's or 80's (can't remember which now). Pretty funny stuff when the year came and went :).

Black umbrella wrote some excellent questions back on page 3 which have so far gone unanswered. This could be because they weren't seen but I think it's more likely that they're being ignored. From my understanding of Mormonism, they do believe that Satan and Jesus were brothers, they believe that God the father himself had physical sex with Mary to create Jesus, they believe(d) that black people were those who had sided against God in heaven and whites were those who were with God (can't remember the exact story now) and they believe that when we die, if we're good Mormons, then we will ourselves become a God, get our own planet and thousands of wives which we will impregnate to create the souls (or something) of the creatures on our planet. Yes, this means that God too was once a mortal "morman" and Earth just so happens to be his planet. What's really interesting is that they have the name of the star around which God's originating planet orbits (which I now forget). It's been a long time since I've looked into the stuff so forgive the foggy areas.

Black umbrella wrote some excellent questions back on page 3 which have so far gone unanswered. This could be because they weren't seen but I think it's more likely that they're being ignored. From my understanding of Mormonism, they do believe that Satan and Jesus were brothers, they believe that God the father himself had physical sex with Mary to create Jesus, they believe(d) that black people were those who had sided against God in heaven and whites were those who were with God (can't remember the exact story now) and they believe that when we die, if we're good Mormons, then we will ourselves become a God, get our own planet and thousands of wives which we will impregnate to create the souls (or something) of the creatures on our planet. Yes, this means that God too was once a mortal "morman" and Earth just so happens to be his planet. What's really interesting is that they have the name of the star around which God's originating planet orbits (which I now forget). It's been a long time since I've looked into the stuff so forgive the foggy areas.

The story with the blacks and white was that of Cain.

The star that you're talking to is called Kolob.

When the missionaries told me I wouldn't be able to drink my iced tea or Mountain Dew, that's kinda when I saw through all of the crap.

OK, so I make a blog with some stupid ideas about how the US was born out of the butt of a chicken, with a picture of a chicken, and then you are surprised that there aren't any websites stating clearly that the US was not born out of the butt of a chicken.


Your idea is ludicrous and shameful.

The History of the United States is not the secret of a temple or religous order.

Your equation of the history of the United States being born of a chicken and the truth behind the mormon religion is palpably wrong.

The information contained in that website is one hundred percent accurate.
---> http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/
You are not the first to slander it and attack its credibility with simple-minded rhetoric. You shall be neither the last to attack it nor the last to have your depraved assault beaten back.

Your idea is ludicrous and shameful.

The History of the United States is not the secret of a temple or religous order.

Your equation of the history of the United States being born of a chicken and the truth behind the mormon religion is palpably wrong.

The information contained in that website is one hundred percent accurate.
---> http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/
You are not the first to slander it and attack its credibility with simple-minded rhetoric. You shall be neither the last to attack it nor the last to have your depraved assault beaten back.
OK, that's really enough. Consider this a friendly request to stop your consistent slandering of this religion. Now.

What you are proposing is asking the head of the American Nazi Party whether the holocaust really occurred, and asking him or her to characterize the leadership of Adolf Hitler.

Not a SINGLE person has posted a SINGLE reliable counterexample to the truth about Mormonism's history.

Mormon websites DO NOT COUNT they have a religously fundementalist bias.
It's like going to a christian fundementalist website for valid information on christianity.

So again, the truth stands for all to see at http://www.livejournal.com/users/morma/

Go to any Sunday service at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and you will find that there is no truth to this "Morma" story.

Is it true you guys think the garden of eden is a parking lot?

No answer?

Black umbrella wrote some excellent questions back on page 3 which have so far gone unanswered. This could be because they weren't seen but I think it's more likely that they're being ignored. From my understanding of Mormonism, they do believe that Satan and Jesus were brothers, they believe that God the father himself had physical sex with Mary to create Jesus, they believe(d) that black people were those who had sided against God in heaven and whites were those who were with God (can't remember the exact story now) and they believe that when we die, if we're good Mormons, then we will ourselves become a God, get our own planet and thousands of wives which we will impregnate to create the souls (or something) of the creatures on our planet. Yes, this means that God too was once a mortal "morman" and Earth just so happens to be his planet. What's really interesting is that they have the name of the star around which God's originating planet orbits (which I now forget). It's been a long time since I've looked into the stuff so forgive the foggy areas.

Sorry if I have passed over any questions. There are just so many, and I have a limited amount of time. If your question goes unanswered, feel free to state it again.

1. Latter-day Saints believe that everyone are spirit siblings, including Jesus. That is why God is called our Heavenly Father, he is the father of our spirits.

2. It is unknown if God had physical intercourse with Mary, but it is known that somehow, a sperm from God united with an egg from Mary.

3. The story of the pre-existence goes like this: Before we were born on Earth, we were all spirits residing with God. Then an idea was proposed that would gain us physical bodies and experience. Two plans were then brought out: Satan's plan and Jesus' plan. Satan wanted us all to come to Earth and be forced to do good so that every one of us could return to live with God, and that Satan would recieve all the glory. Jesus' plan was to have us all come to Earth and prove ourselves through free agency, and that the glory wopuld be God's. We are told that there was a great war of words and gnashing of teeth. 1/3 of the people in heaven (No, they were not blacks.) took Satan's side, 1/3 of the people in heaven took Jesus' side, and 1/3 was kind of on the borderline. Satan was cast out along with his "army", and they were sent to Earth without bodies. Then, the other 2/3 were and are being sent to Earth with bodies.

4. I will answer this when I have more time. I think the answer would be bigger than my #3 answer. Please do not see this as me trying to ignore it. I will try to answer it soon. I know the answer, but don't have the time at the present.

No answer?

I'm not sure if the Garden of Eden currently has a parking lot over it, but we are told by the prophets that Jackson County, Missouri is where the Garden of Eden once was.

So, Ive asked a few questions about Mormonism, on this and other threads, and Ive come to the following conclusions, this is my opinion only, and it really shouldnt make a difference to anyone else....


SO.....

If anyone takes offence to my own personal ramblings...

Tough titty.


I find so many unbelievable stretches of the imagination.

Smith was chosen by god why?
Looking back at the man...he really wasnt a saintly kind of guy, not particularly pious, and he certainly wouldnt be my first choice to spread a message that had already been sent, 2000 years ago.

The "Golden Plates" and the tools used to dechypher them?

Never seen by anyone else other than Smith, or (by some accounts) his closest followers, all of wich would be all too easy to manipulate.
They do not exist now, nor do I think, did they ever.

When texts of the book were lost...Smith could not retranslate them and they were omitted from the Book of Mormon.
This indicates he made the whole thing up.

Smith claims that an angel named Moroni gave him these plates, and later took them back. (conveneint)
Followers also claim that Smith was occasionally visited by this angel, although no reliable witnessess can verify it. (also convenient)

Ultimately, the highest level of the Mormon religion is to become a god yourself.
This would mean that Mormonism is a polytheistic religion, wich would be contradictory to the Old and New testaments.

Finally, we know that Jesus, probably drank wine on occasion.
Knowing this, I dont see why the need to abstain from alchohol, or caffeine, or whatever.
Many religions do this as well, so this is a very minor discrepency.


In closing....this religion makes much more sense, if you can picture Joseph Smith and a couple of his followers saying.."Hey..we should make up our own religion, wouldnt that be cool?"

I'm not sure if the Garden of Eden currently has a parking lot over it, but we are told by the prophets that Jackson County, Missouri is where the Garden of Eden once was.

...So did anything at all happen outside of america? Ever?

Black umbrella wrote some excellent questions back on page 3 which have so far gone unanswered. This could be because they weren't seen but I think it's more likely that they're being ignored.
You say:
[quote]
From my understanding of Mormonism, they do believe that Satan and Jesus were brothers
Spirit bothers just. As are are all. Why is that weird? Didn't you wonder who made Satan? It was Heavenly Father of course.

they believe that God the father himself had physical sex with Mary to create Jesus

Same could be said of Christians. But no that isn't true. Its never explained how it occurred by any religion. She was a virgin before Jesus (not after wards because they eventually had other children through Joseph). So It was probably Heavenly Father just formed a baby within her but eh.


they believe(d) that black people were those who had sided against God in heaven and whites were those who were with God (can't remember the exact story now)


Actually that is just a racist remark. Curses based on skin would be for things done on earth not for Heaven's war. Plus those that fought on the side of Lucifer never got bodies. So no we don't think Heaven's war determined skin color.
You know those stories of possession in bible? The spirit that takes over them is one of the people who fought against the Father. Jesus cast one or two out in New Testament.


and they believe that when we die, if we're good Mormons, then we will ourselves become a God, get our own planet and thousands of wives which we will impregnate to create the souls (or something) of the creatures on our planet.

Well now that is loosely close. You first need to reach Celestrial kingdom. To do that you have to get a temple marriage (or sealed for all time and eternity if you want to get married out of temple). Once sealed you children with you and those born are under the seal of the Covenant. Thus You will always have them with you in the afterlife when they die you will still be a family.
Temple marriage does not end at death like secular marriage does.
And way you have to live a good life of course too. And then yes you may reach it.
The old and new testament(unsure about new) says you can become like a a god. And you will like Jesus. Jesus is our brother and he made it. He always was Heavenly Father's favorite though.
The planet thing is just stories. But no there are no plural marriages in heaven. You can't impregnant a spirit I'm pretty sure. Can you prove that planet thing?


Yes, this means that God too was once a mortal "morman" and Earth just so happens to be his planet. What's really interesting is that they have the name of the star around which God's originating planet orbits (which I now forget). It's been a long time since I've looked into the stuff so forgive the foggy areas.

Heavenly Father was never a mortal... Jesus was a mortal which do you mean? I've never liiked that title God, people confuse me about which they mean.
The Godhead includes Heavenly Father, Jesus , and the Holy Ghost (with comprises all the souls who made it). They are one in agreement. Those that make it all vote on stuffin heaven best way to simplify it.
Thus when you say God which of the title did you mean?

ummm, yeah moromons can drink soda?!!! Joseph Smith was my great, great, great, great grandfather. I am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. We can dink soda, hot chocolate, and ::gasp!:: even wear red!!! We don't believe in polluting our bodies with alcohol or excessive caffeine because we believe the human body is one of God's creations and he is sort of leasing it to us for a while. We don't really own our bodies so they aren't our's to pollute. For the same reason, we don't get tattoos or multiple peircings or wear immodest clothing. The Book of Mormon is another book of scripture that Joseph Smith discovered that was written by the early American peoples. In the New Testament, Jesus says he had other sheep that are not of this fold (Jerusalem) that he had to visit. After Jesus was ressurected he came to the Americas to preach. We have the book of scripture that accounts the prophets of that time in the OTHER fold.

So, Ive asked a few questions about Mormonism, on this and other threads, and Ive come to the following conclusions, this is my opinion only, and it really shouldnt make a difference to anyone else....


SO.....

If anyone takes offence to my own personal ramblings...

Tough titty.


I find so many unbelievable stretches of the imagination.

Smith was chosen by god why?
Looking back at the man...he really wasnt a saintly kind of guy, not particularly pious, and he certainly wouldnt be my first choice to spread a message that had already been sent, 2000 years ago.

Smith was chosen because he was actually asking Heavenly Father directly. Most people were going to churches based on other Preachers words. Some were acting sheepish and that is not right way.
I would think James would be a good book. Smith thought so he read it and it said ask if you have questions. How hard is that to understand? Ask? He thought sure, hopefully I will recieve a message. He deciuded to set off into woods because houses can get loud. He set off and found a nice area in the woods and Lo and Behold. He got a message.
What you mean not very pious? He had lots of faith in scriptures. Name a guy who was saintly before becoming a prophet? Who else would you have chosen in 1800's? Obviously after Inquisition and crusades something had to be done.

The "Golden Plates" and the tools used to dechypher them?

Never seen by anyone else other than Smith, or (by some accounts) his closest followers, all of wich would be all too easy to manipulate.
They do not exist now, nor do I think, did they ever.

They were seen in Old testament. The Urim and Thurim are used some in old Testament.

When texts of the book were lost...Smith could not retranslate them and they were omitted from the Book of Mormon.
This indicates he made the whole thing up.

You say "lost" I say "stolen" but we both should know I'm right. They were stolen. And it was because of this that he didn't retranslate. Heavenly Father told him that if he did a certain group still had the lost text and would try to use them to disprove church. I bet you they still have them too. Waiting till God allows the church to finally add them through revelation.


Smith claims that an angel named Moroni gave him these plates, and later took them back. (conveneint)
Followers also claim that Smith was occasionally visited by this angel, although no reliable witnessess can verify it. (also convenient)

Does reliable mean non followers? Then that is because you have to have faith to bring forth a miracle. Miracles don't come for miracles they come because there is faith. Jesus couldn't do miracles in many towns because of their disbelief in New Testament. Trust me a angel can be a miracle to witness.


Ultimately, the highest level of the Mormon religion is to become a god yourself.
This would mean that Mormonism is a polytheistic religion, wich would be contradictory to the Old and New testaments.


Actually Polythesitic is when you worship multiple god not they they exist. Though in truth I've never heard of a polytheistic religion where you didn't worship thether gods but oh well. I mean many people worship Jesus but does that mean Christianity is Polytheistic?
Many Catholics worship the Saints but is that polytheistic?
Based on your defination of Polytheistic.

Again, no one worships any one that reaches Celestrial Kingdom. We only worship Heavenly Father thus we would not be polytheistic.


Finally, we know that Jesus, probably drank wine on occasion.
Knowing this, I dont see why the need to abstain from alchohol, or caffeine, or whatever.
Many religions do this as well, so this is a very minor discrepency.


In closing....this religion makes much more sense, if you can picture Joseph Smith and a couple of his followers saying.."Hey..we should make up our own religion, wouldnt that be cool?"

Actually wine back then is sometimes grape juice. Not yet fertiized.
Why abstain from alcohol, Caffiene, and illegal drugs? Because they are bad for your body.
But I shall go on from there. All three are known causes of high levels of stress in human body. Nutritionist will tell you that same thing. High blood pressure can come from there usage.

Now Caffiene if taken regularly bad. Moderation good. Alcohol clouds mind and judgement. Also restricts usage of spirit and weakens communicating with Heavenly Father so we are against that.

And illegal drugs because they are illegal and Heavenly Father wishes for people to follow the law.

I'm not sure if the Garden of Eden currently has a parking lot over it, but we are told by the prophets that Jackson County, Missouri is where the Garden of Eden once was.
*bangs head repeatedly against the wall*

Point one: this blind belief in what your "prophets" tell you is really not doing anyone any good. Can't you come up with a better reason than "this old guy said so and he must be right"?

Point two: human life originated in the middle east. That's archeologically and scientifically proven. Deal with it.

Point two: human life originated in the middle east. That's archeologically and scientifically proven. Deal with it.
It did? Then why does everyone go on about Africa?

It did? Then why does everyone go on about Africa?Dunno, it could be Northern Africa/lower Sudan, but I am positive it wasn't North America.

Dunno, it could be Northern Africa/lower Sudan, but I am positive it wasn't North America.
But the prophets say it was Jackson County, Missouri.
Where is your Faith my son? :p Are you succumbing to the lies of the Anti-Christ? :D

But the prophets say it was Jackson County, Missouri.
Where is your Faith my son? :p Are you succumbing to the lies of the Anti-Christ? :DYes, I'm a rabid athiest who will eat your soul. Yummy. :D

A quick google search reveals that most scientists/scientists' web pages agree that life started in Africa and first spread to Eurasia.

If I can just pop in here....

Homo sapiens, as a species, did evolve in what is currently Africa, but civilisation (as it is recognised today) did evolve in what is currently the Middle East. The Iran/Iraq area, to be specific. Ironic, when you consider the current state of affairs in that area.

Anyway, the Garden of Eden is believed to be located in what is modern day Iraq, but that is based purely upon physical evidence, not religious. God might very well have placed it in America and simply placed evidence of it being in Iraq for some reason known only to him. It depends whether you want to go on faith or not.

I'll leave now........

*giggles at the thought of a giant King-Kong like being uprooting a garden from Missouri and dumping it in Iraq*

Yes, I'm a rabid athiest who will eat your soul. Yummy. :D
You can't eat my soul. It's safely locked away in a Swiss bankvault.

I've been to the mormon "garden of eden".

It's a shitty little swamp.

The book of Mormon states to not imbibe any hot liquids. Why is this taken to me caffeine, when such is not expressly stated? And as such, why are cold beverages such as soda and other cold caffeinated drinks prohibited? And shouldn't this ban against hot liquids forbid soup and gravy as well, if one were to be as strict as the church has been about imbibing caffeine (extension to any and all caffeinated products, even those not warm)?

The book of Mormon states to not imbibe any hot liquids. Why is this taken to me caffeine, when such is not expressly stated? And as such, why are cold beverages such as soda and other cold caffeinated drinks prohibited? And shouldn't this ban against hot liquids forbid soup and gravy as well, if one were to be as strict as the church has been about imbibing caffeine (extension to any and all caffeinated products, even those not warm)?

My mother (a mormon) doesn't believe in the whole "don't drink caffeine" thing.

Using a puppet to avoid a Forum Ban is punishable by deletion.

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You say "lost" I say "stolen" but we both should know I'm right. They were stolen. And it was because of this that he didn't retranslate. Heavenly Father told him that if he did a certain group still had the lost text and would try to use them to disprove church. I bet you they still have them too. Waiting till God allows the church to finally add them through revelation.


Isn't it interesting that someone could steal the Plates? I mean, the Heavenly Father can take back the plates that his people had, but CAN'T take back the other plates?


Actually wine back then is sometimes grape juice. Not yet fertiized.
Why abstain from alcohol, Caffiene, and illegal drugs? Because they are bad for your body.


How do you know when it is grape juice? Noah drank wine, and got drunk on it. The apostles record wine at the last supper (unless they lied), and there is reference somewhere (can't remember which verse, off hand) to the healing effects of wine. I seem to recall mention of how people shouldn't drink 'too much' wine.

So, what tells you to read 'wine' as 'grape juice' at some times, but not others?

Don't the Mormons believe that the 'Native Americans' are actually from the Holy Land... kind of exodites?

How does that gel with the fact that the Hebrews first appear in the Holy Land maybe 4,000 years ago (being very very lenient), but there is evidence for Native American habitation 9,000 years agao?

Why does the Book of Mormon (1830) differ from the current one published with about 4000 changes? Surely tampering with a Holy book is not what God desired?

PS - Don't go on about the New Testament and how it had been doctored and mutated over the last 2000 years.

Actually Polythesitic is when you worship multiple god not they they exist. Though in truth I've never heard of a polytheistic religion where you didn't worship thether gods but oh well. I mean many people worship Jesus but does that mean Christianity is Polytheistic?
Many Catholics worship the Saints but is that polytheistic?
Based on your defination of Polytheistic.

Dictionary.com defines polytheism as the worship of OR belief in more than one god. Here are some examples for you.

Atheism- The belief in no god, whereas the suffix a means no, such as in anarachy, or no government.

Monotheism- The belief in one god. People may hate god, despise him/her, or never go to church, and it wouldn't matter. As long as they acknowledge there is one, and only one being, then they are Monotheist.

Polytheism- As said before, the belief in multiple gods. This is NOT limited to the worship of one, some, or all of these gods.

In conclusion, the Mormon, or LDS idea that man can himself become a god is against the very scriptures they claim to believe in. If anything it's merely a selling point used to convert members with an IQ equal to that of a Special Ed. student.

To go even further, using this idea of man becoming a god himself, we must realize that even your god has come from somewhere *Kolob if I'm correct* so therefore meaning that we shouldn't worship him, but in turn we should worship the god that gave him to us, for that is the the god that made things possible in the first place.

Even then, it's like a family tree and, if the prophets let you, it could be traced back even further.

Don't the Mormons believe that the 'Native Americans' are actually from the Holy Land... kind of exodites?

How does that gel with the fact that the Hebrews first appear in the Holy Land maybe 4,000 years ago (being very very lenient), but there is evidence for Native American habitation 9,000 years agao?
Actually The tower of Babil is one group of Native Americans who came over across the sea. They were the Jaredites named after Jared their leader. Actually I think that the Brother of Jared led more but eh. They asked to not lose their speech (remember everyones speech was impaired. Different languages) They also asked that their freinds not lose there speech. And they eventually came over as I said.

Some came over from Jerusalem and that was the Lehui and his people in the beginning of the Book of Mormon. Eventually their people found records of the Jaredites and so their story was told.

They didn't all come over from one place.

And yes the Jaredites came over a long time ago so 9,000 isn't that hard.

Actually The tower of Babil is one group of Native Americans who came over across the sea. They were the Jaredites named after Jared their leader. Actually I think that the Brother of Jared led more but eh. They asked to not lose their speech (remember everyones speech was impaired. Different languages) They also asked that their freinds not lose there speech. And they eventually came over as I said.

Some came over from Jerusalem and that was the Lehui and his people in the beginning of the Book of Mormon. Eventually their people found records of the Jaredites and so their story was told.

They didn't all come over from one place.

And yes the Jaredites came over a long time ago so 9,000 isn't that hard.

Yup, you heard him right people. Jared the Native American...

Actually The tower of Babil is one group of Native Americans who came over across the sea. They were the Jaredites named after Jared their leader. Actually I think that the Brother of Jared led more but eh. They asked to not lose their speech (remember everyones speech was impaired. Different languages) They also asked that their freinds not lose there speech. And they eventually came over as I said.

Some came over from Jerusalem and that was the Lehui and his people in the beginning of the Book of Mormon. Eventually their people found records of the Jaredites and so their story was told.

They didn't all come over from one place.

And yes the Jaredites came over a long time ago so 9,000 isn't that hard.

No no no... not too hard at all... except that the Jaredites must have come after Adam, and, therefore can't have come over to America 9,000 years ago... because they wouldn't even exist for another 4,000 or 5,000 years...

Right?

Actually The tower of Babil is one group of Native Americans who came over across the sea. They were the Jaredites named after Jared their leader. Actually I think that the Brother of Jared led more but eh. They asked to not lose their speech (remember everyones speech was impaired. Different languages) They also asked that their freinds not lose there speech. And they eventually came over as I said.

Some came over from Jerusalem and that was the Lehui and his people in the beginning of the Book of Mormon. Eventually their people found records of the Jaredites and so their story was told.

They didn't all come over from one place.

And yes the Jaredites came over a long time ago so 9,000 isn't that hard.


After all this... you still doubt that they worship Morma the Golden Prince?

I've noticed that when good points, such as Grave n idle's, come to the plate that there's a sudden lack of response from our hosts.

Yup, you heard him right people. Jared the Native American...

Was his indian name "Makes-up-silly-stories" ?

After all this... you still doubt that they worship Morma the Golden Prince?

Please stop.

It's not funny, it's not helpful, and it's totally not contributing.

If all you want to do is 'up' your post count, go start a "I'm just gonna up my post count" thread...

I may not be a Mormon, but you are offending ME with your inane repitition of this "Morma" thing.

Give me one good link that proves your case (and a page from a 'livejournal' isn't considered good evidence) or cease and desist, please.

Otherwise, you are just trolling.

Please stop.

It's not funny, it's not helpful, and it's totally not contributing.

If all you want to do is 'up' your post count, go start a "I'm just gonna up my post count" thread...

I may not be a Mormon, but you are offending ME with your inane repitition of this "Morma" thing.

Give me one good link that proves your case (and a page from a 'livejournal' isn't considered good evidence) or cease and desist, please.

Otherwise, you are just trolling.

I second that motion.

I've actually already reported him for trolling, and the Mods have warned him (In this very thread). It looks like he violated their orders

I have a question.

No, that is not true. "Baptisms for the dead" are actions where someone is baptised in proxy for a deceased person who has not been baptised. We do not baptise dead bodies. It is then up to the deceased person to accept the ordinance or reject it.

How do lay Mormons feel about the fact that various communities, particularly the Jewish community, have repeatedly expressed anger, hurt, and outrage that this goes on without familial consent? Or that the church agreed to stop baptizing Jews, and has continued to do so? Shouldn't Mormons be demanding that the church, as a "moral" institution, do what it promised, instead of breaking its word? Or is it ok to lie to non-Mormons if you're doing "God's work"?

Info here:

http://www2.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/ldsagree.html

The LDS Agreement
April 28, 1995

News Release -- Salt Lake City, Utah and New York, New York
Joint News Release by The Church of The Latter-day Saints and The American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors

The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints and the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors have reached an agreement over the issue of the posthumous baptisms of Jewish Holocaust victims by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The final agreement will be signed at the New York Office of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations on Wednesday, May 3, 1995, at which time a press conference will be held by the leaders of both groups.

"The issue came to the attention of the Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors as a result of an article in a Jewish newspaper which stated, correctly that a Jewish Holocaust victim who was killed in Gurs (France) concentration camp was posthumously baptized by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," said Ernest Michel, Chairman of the World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and an authorized representative of the American Gathering.

As a result of this article, Mr. Michel in behalf of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, initiated discussions with the Church which extended over a period of several months.

"From the very beginning these discussions were conducted in a positive and friendly manner," Michel said. "They concluded in today's agreement between the Church and the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors," he added.

In a statement issue today, the Church agreed, among other actions to be taken, to remove from the next issue of its International Genealogical Index the names of all known Jewish Holocaust victims who are not ancestors of living members of the Church. The American Gathering agreed to communicate with and inform major Jewish organizations as to its agreement with the Church. Four other major Jewish organizations have also approved this agreement.

"For more than a century the First Presidency of the Church has taught that members of the Church have a solemn responsibility to identify their deceased forebears and to provide temple ordinances for them regardless of ethnic background or origin," said Elder Monte J. Brough of the Church's Presidency of the Seventy and executive director of its Family History Department.

"However, in violation of Church policy, lists of Jewish Holocaust victims and other non-related groups and individuals have been submitted for temple ordinances. The First Presidency directed in March 1991 that temple ordinances for Jewish Holocaust victims be discontinued," Elder Brough said.

"Unfortunately, subsequent submissions of lists of Jewish Holocaust victims were made by certain individuals and posthumous baptisms in contravention of Church policy occurred," he added.

As a consequence of these discussions and the First Presidency's directive, the Church has agreed to:

- Remove from the next issue of the International Genealogical Index the names of all known posthumous baptized Jewish Holocaust victims who are not direct ancestors of living members of the Church.

- Provide a list of all Jewish Holocaust victims whose names are to be removed from the International Genealogical Index to the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Commission, the N.Y. Holocaust Memorial Commission, the Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles and Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem, Israel, and confirm in writing when removal of such names has been completed.

- Reaffirm the policy and issue a directive to all officials and members of the Church to discontinue any future baptisms of deceased Jews, including all lists of Jewish Holocaust victims who are known Jews, except if they were direct ancestors of living members of the Church or the Church had the written approval of all living members of the deceased's immediate family.

- Confirm this policy in all relevant literature produced by the Church.

- Remove from the International Genealogical Index in the future the names of all deceased Jews who are so identified if they are known to be improperly included counter to Church policy.

- Release to the American Gathering The First Presidency's 1995 directive.

The First Presidency reaffirmed that the Church, in accordance with past policy, will continue to make its family history records available to the public regardless of religious or ethnic affiliation.

April 10, 2004

Mark Thiessen [Excerpts]
The Associated Press

Sen. Clinton joins effort to end Mormon baptism of Holocaust victims
SALT LAKE CITY -- Despite a directive from Mormon leaders to stop the practice, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have continued posthumously baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims into the Mormon faith, adding more concentration camp victims to its roster of those offered conversion in the afterlife.

A New York Jewish organization was so outraged that it asked U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton to intervene, prompting a meeting in early March between the former first lady and Utah Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch, an LDS church member, The Associated Press has learned.

However, Ernest Michel, chairman of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, said he asked Clinton to intervene to force the LDS Church to abide by a 1995 agreement to stop the posthumous baptisms.

The church has reaffirmed formally and informally the 1995 agreement in recent years only to have watchdogs find new Holocaust victims added to church's database of 400 million names -- each of which has had, or will eventually receive, a proxy baptism.

Under the 1995 agreement, the church directed its members not to include the names of unrelated persons, celebrities and unapproved groups, such as Jewish Holocaust victims, for its "baptisms for the dead," according to documents provided by the LDS Church.

The church also assumes that the closest living relative of the deceased being offered for proxy baptism has consented.

After the 1995 agreement, researchers, including Helen Radkey of Salt Lake City, later discovered that the baptisms hadn't stopped. Radkey has studied the issue since 1999.

LDS Church leaders reaffirmed the agreement in December 2002 after Radkey found at least 20,000 Jews in the church's International Genealogical Index, including Anne Frank.

Radkey said Friday the process still hasn't stopped. She said in a search of what she described as a "small sampling," she recently discovered posthumous baptism records for at least 268 Dutch Jews killed in Polish concentration camps. All the death camp victims were posthumously baptized well after the 1995 agreement.

Also see: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer&cid=1088650997941&p=1078113566627

I would be very interested in responses from Mormons on this topic.

I'm not sure if the Garden of Eden currently has a parking lot over it, but we are told by the prophets that Jackson County, Missouri is where the Garden of Eden once was.
I live in Jackson county MO--definitely NOT the garden of Eden--unless meth lab proliferation is your idea of paradise.

After all this... you still doubt that they worship Morma the Golden Prince?
You've been told (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7145559&postcount=70) to stop this trolling. Consider this a formal warning.

Unfree People
Forum Moderator