NationStates Jolt Archive

What exactly is there?

Magnetic Barrier?

God?

Shiny Diamonds?


I realize that there is a finite space in the universe...so how big is out universe....what is it expanding into? Does it expand nothingness?!?!? and once again...What is at the Edge?!

Any conspiracy answers will keep me happy until i realize i was stupid enough to believe them...although a real answer is much better. =)

Nothing beyond the Edge. It is a mental game. the edge of the universe cannot be reached unless you can travel faster than the speed of light, and you'd still be expanding the universe as you passed the edge by bringing it with you.

According to most scientists... they have no freaking idea. :D

Think of the universe as the surface of a balloon. It has no beginning nor an end; it has no edges.

If i thought of the universe as a balloon....all it will take is one prick from the REAL outside world to kill us with like...god knows how many dB's.

What happens if i'm at the "edge" will it feel funny? can i put my hand through it? Maybe there is oxygen there? -.^

What exactly is there?

Magnetic Barrier?

God?

Shiny Diamonds?


I realize that there is a finite space in the universe...so how big is out universe....what is it expanding into? Does it expand nothingness?!?!? and once again...What is at the Edge?!

Any conspiracy answers will keep me happy until i realize i was stupid enough to believe them...although a real answer is much better. =)

As best we can tell at this point, there is no "edge." The universe seems to describe a closed, multi-dimensional system folded back in upon itself in three dimensions ( perhaps in more, although that's a subject for debate among cosmologists and physicists ); go far enough and you'll simply arrive back at your starting point from the opposite direction. This view is currently being challenged by string theory as well as by the recent discovery that the expansion of the universe is accelerating.

So the universe is like a circle then? Does that mean technically it is Infinite?...wait that means the universe can technically be measured...measure how long it takes for (i dont care) a radio signal to go through the universe and back to the point of origin! Distance=Speed over Time

As best we can tell at this point, there is no "edge." The universe seems to describe a closed, multi-dimensional system folded back in upon itself in three dimensions ( perhaps in more, although that's a subject for debate among cosmologists and physicists ); go far enough and you'll simply arrive back at your starting point from the opposite direction. This view is currently being challenged by string theory as well as by the recent discovery that the expansion of the universe is accelerating.

That's what I meant by the surface of a balloon analogy.

.... the recent discovery that the expansion of the universe is accelerating.

I hadn't heard that. Have you got a link?

That's what I meant by the surface of a balloon analogy.

Kewl. Didn't see that comment. Sorry! :)

I could imagine that we got a massive insanely huge black hole in the center of the universe with jetstreams of unimaginable power, that pushes all matter away from itself, just like the black holes in every galaxy. This universal black hole has got to be so big it affects every galaxy and pushes it away. However it's impossible to prove this since we don't know where exactly the center of the universe is, nor what is at the center - if it has a center at all.

I hadn't heard that. Have you got a link?

Try this one ...

http://www.pnas.org/misc/classics2.shtml

That's the only one I could come up with on short notice, but there are lots! :)

Ok on this light thing...if true... if we can make items go at the speed of light then maybe we could prevent the possible "Big Crunch"

On another note...if the Big Crunch were to happen....how would we see the planets disappear? would we see them disappear? or would they just get pushed into us? Or is it like MIB...*starts ranting*

For a rather harrowing vision of what this increase in the rate of expansion might portend, see ...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/big_rip_030306.html

I could imagine that we got a massive insanely huge black hole in the center of the universe with jetstreams of unimaginable power, that pushes all matter away from itself, just like the black holes in every galaxy. This universal black hole has got to be so big it affects every galaxy and pushes it away. However it's impossible to prove this since we don't know where exactly the center of the universe is, nor what is at the center - if it has a center at all.

The reason there even are black holes is because their gravity is so strong even light cannot escape. They don't "push," they "pull."

Great...aside from the "Big Crunch" we also have to worry about the "Big Rip"

Geez looks like the universe works like a rubber band...either it'll snap back after being stretched enough *Big Crunch* or it will rip in half... *Big Rip*

Great...aside from the "Big Crunch" we also have to worry about the "Big Rip"

Geez looks like the universe works like a rubber band...either it'll snap back after being stretched enough *Big Crunch* or it will rip in half... *Big Rip*

Heh! Perhaps so. At least none of us, and most likely nothing which could be characterized as "human," will be around to see it.

Great...aside from the "Big Crunch" we also have to worry about the "Big Rip"

Geez looks like the universe works like a rubber band...either it'll snap back after being stretched enough *Big Crunch* or it will rip in half... *Big Rip*

Though some theorists believe that if the Universe contracts to nothingness, there will be yet another "Big Bang" and time will start over. The same could probably be said for the Big Rip, I think...of course, if the Universe continues to expand forever, none of this will matter...

Some scientists speculate that the universe has an end, but as you get closer to the edge of the universe, everything becomes smaller. There would be no way to tell though, because when you try to measure it, it would shrink the measuring device.

[MuhOre #1]
What exactly is there?

Magnetic Barrier?

God?

Shiny Diamonds?


I realize that there is a finite space in the universe...so how big is out universe....what is it expanding into? Does it expand nothingness?!?!? and once again...What is at the Edge?!

Any conspiracy answers will keep me happy until i realize i was stupid enough to believe them...although a real answer is much better. =)

At the edge of the Universe is another edge.

The edge of Another Universe.

When your trusty inter-universal space ship, equipped with it's patented "pointy universe prick" firmly attached, hits the edge, it punctures both our universe's edge and the edge of that other universe.

The actual moment of "pricking" sends a signal to God, or some Godlike stand in on duty, that "those crazy lunatic earthlings" (the only quasi-intelligent lifeform in our universe of course) have finally made it to "the edge" and are now eligible for god-hood themselves.

This would be followed with the entire universe filling with the "rather gooey" contents of that other universe, which would free us humans (and some marsupials) of our "mortality" and give us powers associated with ancient gods and some comicbook superhero's.

We would then each be given our own little "universe" to play with, and have endless fun manipulating our subjects and making their lives miserable and wonderous.

Hmmm does that mean people in Mythlogy were actually FT and somehow build spaceships and turned into Gods...and then on the other side (us) decided to pretend to be God to us... ooooooooooh (Conspiracy ^-^)

i dont know, but i hope theres twinkies.

i dont know, but i hope theres twinkies.

Heh! I decided long ago that if there wasn't going to be pizza in heaven, I didn't wanna go! LOL!

hmmm

So if there is good food in Hell..but you still have to deal with the eternal torture...compared to Varied Food in heaven..with bliss of course...you would still want to go to hell? X_X

im going where ever monica bellucci goes!!!

woo hoo!!! mama-cita!!

hmmm

So if there is good food in Hell..but you still have to deal with the eternal torture...compared to Varied Food in heaven..with bliss of course...you would still want to go to hell? X_X

Umm ... can I come back next week for a different question? :D

We would then each be given our own little "universe" to play with, and have endless fun manipulating our subjects and making their lives miserable and wonderous.

OMG NATIONSTATES IS THE END OF THE UNIVARSE!1!

OMG NATIONSTATES IS THE END OF THE UNIVARSE!1!

Nahh. NationStates is just a universe unto itself. :)

The reason there even are black holes is because their gravity is so strong even light cannot escape. They don't "push," they "pull."
The black holes themselves pull, but the matter that escapes the black holes as intense jets of energy (like a pulsar) with gamma radiation and ultraheated matter, gas and other matter in proximity of the black hole is being pushed away.

Thus the recent explanation how galaxies came to exist and why most if not all galaxies have a black hole in their center with no matter around the black hole in close proximity. The matter has been pushed away and concentrated in concentric rings around the black hole - at least for galaxies like the Milky Way.

Nahh. NationStates is just a universe unto itself. :)
i wish Monica were a universe to herself, filled with thousands more like her so i could have a couple... mmmm... monica....

Why does the universe have to have an edge? Must we always apply limits to things?

I know we do it in an attempt to comprehend those things, but still.

i wish Monica were a universe to herself, filled with thousands more like her so i could have a couple... mmmm... monica....

Um ... Monica who?

I realize that there is a finite space in the universe...so how big is out universe....what is it expanding into?For the more popular cosmological theories, the universe isn't in anything, and it is space itself that is expanding. I'm sure you could google explanations better than any I could provide. There are more obscure theories in which our universe is a bubble of constant physics in a multiverse where the physics varies from place to place. Some of these theories have domain walls where the physics changes; but some such theories postulate that the number of "large" dimensions can change from bubble to bubble, and I would imagine that there wouldn't necessarily be a wall located in the familiar 3-d space for such theories. I'm not terribly familiar with such theories, and I don't have the foggiest idea what the domain walls are like.

Now, more mundane cosmological theories almost always have an edge of a sort: the initial singularity. The singularities in black holes, and at the big crunch (if present) are also edges of a sort; but they're decently hidden away behind event horizons or in the future (which is the same thing actually). Not so with the initial singularity. As to what is at the initial singularity, well, known physics doesn't extend that far. Near the singularity you have very high energy density, and rather unusual space-time curvature.

BTW, I don't think the most popular big-bang theory has a finite-sized universe. Now, the observable universe is finite, and that's due to something of a different barrier. Because of the finite speed of light, as you observe further out, you're also observing further back in time. And past a certain point in time, your view is blocked by the plasma that filled the early universe. The light from this plasma is what the cosmic microwave background. Observations of this background are currently ongoing, and variations in the backgrounds caused by enourmous sounds waves in the plasma will be compared with the predictions of cosmological theories. This plasma hides our view of the initial singularity.

Gravity wave detectors are currently being built that can see places ordinary light can't. In a few more generations they might be powerful enough to see though the plasma. As to what they would see, I have no idea. At the moment they haven't managed to see anything.

... as you observe further out, you're also observing further back in time. And past a certain point in time, your view is blocked by the plasma that filled the early universe. The light from this plasma is what the cosmic microwave background. This plasma hides our view of the initial singularity.

Is that what they refer to as the "dark ages" of the universe? Somewhat of a misnomer, isn't it. :)

[MuhOre #1]
What exactly is there?

Magnetic Barrier?

God?

Shiny Diamonds?


I realize that there is a finite space in the universe...so how big is out universe....what is it expanding into? Does it expand nothingness?!?!? and once again...What is at the Edge?!

Any conspiracy answers will keep me happy until i realize i was stupid enough to believe them...although a real answer is much better. =)

At the edge of the Universe is another edge.

The edge of Another Universe.

When your trusty inter-universal space ship, equipped with it's patented "pointy universe prick" firmly attached, hits the edge, it punctures both our universe's edge and the edge of that other universe.

The actual moment of "pricking" sends a signal to God, or some Godlike stand in on duty, that "those crazy lunatic earthlings" (the only quasi-intelligent lifeform in our universe of course) have finally made it to "the edge" and are now eligible for god-hood themselves.

This would be followed with the entire universe filling with the "rather gooey" contents of that other universe, which would free us humans (and some marsupials) of our "mortality" and give us powers associated with ancient gods and some comicbook superhero's.

We would then each be given our own little "universe" to play with, and have endless fun manipulating our subjects and making their lives miserable and wonderous.

Are you a Mormon, jk, I meant LDS

What exactly is there?



Don't think of it as an edge. There isn't one. If you stood at a certain point on Earth and headed, say, West, you'd eventually end up right back where you started, yes?

Same thing in the Universe. If you got in a rocket and headed out in any direction into space and kept going that direction, you'd just end up right back at Earth .... eventually.

That's just how it works. A bit more complex than that, but that's the nutshell.

Um ... Monica who?

this might answer some questions...

if it works...

http://thehalls.creationmatrix.com/monicab1.jpg

On another note...if the Big Crunch were to happen....how would we see the planets disappear? would we see them disappear? or would they just get pushed into us? Or is it like MIB...*starts ranting*Disclaimer: I am not an astophysicist. This will be mostly my guesses. If the Big Crunch were to happen anytime soon, what would happen is that the galaxies would start getting closer together, and the rate of collisions would start going up. You get intense star-forming activity when gas-rich galaxies collide. And sooner or later our solar system would get disrupted and lose a few planets. The other thing that that would happen is that with galactic collisions the black holes at the center of the galaxies merge; and you get larger and larger supermassive black holes that eventually gobble everything up. Assuming that the Earth stays in orbit around the Sun long enough to fall into such a black hole with it, the tidal forces inside the black hole will tear the Earth for the Sun. And sometime after that the tidal forces would tear the earth apart. The Big Crunch would be a very messy affair.

The black holes themselves pull, but the matter that escapes the black holes as intense jets of energy (like a pulsar) with gamma radiation and ultraheated matter, gas and other matter in proximity of the black hole is being pushed away.Parallel to the axis of the black hole. AFAIK, the mechanism for how this happens is still a mystery, but the observations for this happening are pretty strong.
Thus the recent explanation how galaxies came to exist and why most if not all galaxies have a black hole in their center with no matter around the black hole in close proximity.No, it's because there are no stable orbits in close proximity to a black hole.
The matter has been pushed away and concentrated in concentric rings around the black hole - at least for galaxies like the Milky Way.I haven't heard that theory. My understanding was that tidal forces from nearby irregularities gave the gas that collapsed to form the Milky way a torque that caused our galaxy to spin. And as a result our galaxy is essentially in orbit around itself, with the arms being density waves travelling through the starfield of the galaxy. And I thought the bulge at the center of our galaxy contained most of the stars in the galaxy.
Now with elliptical galaxies, a different dynamic is at work. Because elliptical galaxies are very gas-poor there is very little friction, and the star systems act much like an ideal gas. I don't know just how stable the orbits of the star systems are, but they will be perturbed by the other star systems in the galaxies. And every now and then one will fly into the black hole at the center. But because the cross-section of the black hole is small, this will be a rare occurance. But this is not the only fate of a star system in an elliptical galaxy. Occasionally, the perturbation will be such that the star system escapes the galaxy entirely. (This is vaguely similar to how asteroids can fall into the sun or escape the solar system by interacting with Jupiter). Because it is solar systems will a lot of energy (kinetic + gravitational potential energy) that escape this way, the average energy of the remaining solar systems discreases by this process. To continue the analogy with an ideal gas, the "evapouration" of solar systems causes the elliptical galaxy to "cool" and shrink.

Get to the edge of the universe and find God? What does he say?

"Okay.. okay you got me. Took you bastards long enough. Right, this time you hide and I'll count to 10 x 10^50. Ready? GO!"

Is that what they refer to as the "dark ages" of the universe? Somewhat of a misnomer, isn't it. :)I hadn't heard of the "dark ages" of the universe, so I did a google search. It appearently refers to the time between the plasma condensing into neutral atoms, and the formations of the first stars. Which wouldn't exactly be dark, as you'd still have all the light from the plasma around, but there wouldn't be much to see. I guess the hydrogen gas wasn't dense enough to block the light.

*

I hadn't heard of the "dark ages" of the universe, so I did a google search. It appearently refers to the time between the plasma condensing into neutral atoms, and the formations of the first stars. Which wouldn't exactly be dark, as you'd still have all the light from the plasma around, but there wouldn't be much to see. I guess the hydrogen gas wasn't dense enough to block the light.

Ah! Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. I had always wondered about that. Didn't seem to make much sense calling an era with mostly plasma "the universe's dark age." :)

*
Wha?

Nothing beyond the Edge. It is a mental game. the edge of the universe cannot be reached unless you can travel faster than the speed of light, and you'd still be expanding the universe as you passed the edge by bringing it with you.

If you travel at the speed of light (c) and cannot reach the edge of the universe, but only expand it, then the universe is, by definition, a singularity, with an event horizon, I.E the "Edge".

Wha?Just tagging it for later. =)

What is there? I'll tell you what's there: cheese! Millions and millions of kinds of cheese!!!

*Existence of cheese at edge of universe may be subject to change.

the universe is infinite therefore it has no edge.....

think of the world when people believed it was flat that was the edge of human thinking at that time...... just as the edge of the universe is our edge of thinking now.......

the universe is infinite therefore it has no edge.....

think of the world when people believed it was flat that was the edge of human thinking at that time...... just as the edge of the universe is our edge of thinking now.......

Lies!!! The world is flat! It's an optical illusion that makes it appear to be round!!! And the edge of the universe is cheese!!! Cheese I say!!!

*Crossman's opinions today may not refelct the actual opinion of Crossman

the universe is infinite therefore it has no edge.....

think of the world when people believed it was flat that was the edge of human thinking at that time...... just as the edge of the universe is our edge of thinking now.......

Very good! Anyone here familiar with the uncertainty principle?
:D

Lies!!! The world is flat! It's an optical illusion that makes it appear to be round!!! And the edge of the universe is cheese!!! Cheese I say!!!

*Crossman's opinions today may not refelct the actual opinion of Crossman

Crossmans opinions may not be grounded in reality either.

Crossmans opinions may not be grounded in reality either.

LOL, indeed.

What exactly is there?

Magnetic Barrier?

God?

Shiny Diamonds?


I realize that there is a finite space in the universe...so how big is out universe....what is it expanding into? Does it expand nothingness?!?!? and once again...What is at the Edge?!

Any conspiracy answers will keep me happy until i realize i was stupid enough to believe them...although a real answer is much better. =)

Been there...Have the t-shirt.
It was pretty crap.

Been there...Have the t-shirt.
It was pretty crap.

And I bet there was cheese!!!

There's probably an edge, just not that we can measure. The Universe is expanding faster than light, so we can't really see the edge. If we did, it would be looking back in time. The Universe will eventually slow to stopping, then it's own gravity will draw it back into itself, becoming so dense that it will condense to the size of an atom, then explode in another Big Bang, creating another Universe. It will do this forever.

And I bet there was cheese!!!

Well...It was cheesy...

Very cheesy, after all, the universe was made backwards.

(Hint: Read "made" backwards!)

Well...It was cheesy...

Ha ha!!! I win!!! Hail Crossman!!!

Heh! I decided long ago that if there wasn't going to be pizza in heaven, I didn't wanna go! LOL!


www.hell.co.nz ..?

Silly! The universe is a tortise shell and we're all riding on it's back. :p

......... the edge is not an edge at all its a big flat plane that we like to call exsitance...........a demension if you will an altrenate reality you might say...............

I must ask, who says there is a finite space in the universe? We have no evidence to suggest that the universe is no infinite. The argument that the entire sky would be filled with stars is bunk, we can only see the stars whose light has had time to make it to us, so over time more stars will appear as time passes, but the distance between stars is such that the time between each new appearance is great.

There is no edge, the universe is just expanding into nothingness, it is filling the nothingness. There is an infinite amount of nothingness, so, one could say the universe is infinite, but the universe is only filling a certain amount of that nothing, thus making the universe finite.. At least, that's the way I see it, pretty simple eh?