NationStates Jolt Archive

After a series of ads in the University of Arizona newspaper railed against left-wing professors, a student allegedly reported Professor David Gibbs to the FBI for being "an anti-American communist who hates America."

A series of ads have been running in student newspapers across the country charging that universities are dominated by liberal or left-wing professors. The ads are paid for by well-funded groups like Students for Academic Freedom and the Independent Women's Forum. Some of the ads encourage students to report any so-called anti-American faculty or statements made by professors. And that is apparently what happened to David Gibbs, an Associate professor of History and Sociology at the University of Arizona. After his Spring course "What is Politics?", a student wrote the following on an anonymous evaluation form:
"I believe that the university should check into David Gibbs. He is an anti-American communist who hates America and is trying to brainwash young people into thinking America sucks. He needs to go and live in a Third World country to appreciate what he has here. Have him investigated by the FBI. FBI has been contacted."

David Gibbs is an associate professor of History and Sociology at the University of Arizona. He has an article in the journal New Political Science called "Pretexts and U.S. Foreign Policy: The War on Terrorism in Historical Perspective."
www.democracynow.org

lol.. when the boards are lacking of really entertaining threads, you can always count on MKULTRA to come up with some doosy.

Just going down that democracynow site...
Damn that Arizona for making sure that only citizens get to vote. I mean if only they would allow illegal immigrants to vote, why no end of wonders would happen.

Damn that Fox news... making sure that people follow the laws... I mean, arent laws meant to be broken?!?

Ah, you made my night TRA

lol.. when the boards are lacking of really entertaining threads, you can always count on MKULTRA to come up with some doosy.

Just going down that democracynow site...
Damn that Arizona for making sure that only citizens get to vote. I mean if only they would allow illegal immigrants to vote, why no end of wonders would happen.

Damn that Fox news... making sure that people follow the laws... I mean, arent laws meant to be broken?!?

Ah, you made my night TRA
Wow, what a way to try to make an article into something it isn't. The article--which I read two days ago on another site--has to do with college students registering to vote. It has jack fuck all to do with illegal immigration.

lol.. when the boards are lacking of really entertaining threads, you can always count on MKULTRA to come up with some doosy.

Just going down that democracynow site...
Damn that Arizona for making sure that only citizens get to vote. I mean if only they would allow illegal immigrants to vote, why no end of wonders would happen.

Damn that Fox news... making sure that people follow the laws... I mean, arent laws meant to be broken?!?

Ah, you made my night TRA
Democracynow is fair and balanced

Wow, what a way to try to make an article into something it isn't. The article--which I read two days ago on another site--has to do with college students registering to vote. It has jack fuck all to do with illegal immigration.
no he wasnt saying that he was running down a list of the headlines on the democracynow site LOL

Wow, what a way to try to make an article into something it isn't. The article--which I read two days ago on another site--has to do with college students registering to vote. It has jack fuck all to do with illegal immigration.
whoa whoa there....

I think you think Im refering to a different article...
Currently on democracynow there is 4 things listed....

Neoliberalism and Hurricanes: Death Toll Rises in Caribbean

Targeting Immigrants in Arizona: Prop 200 and the November Election (subject of my first coment)

Campus Crackdown: Fox News Attacks Student Voter Registration Effort (subject of my second comment)

University of Arizona Professor Reported to FBI for "Hating" America

Incertonia... I had thought you and I had a tete a tete, at least enough to understand that the other wasn't completely unreasonable.

Democracynow is fair and balanced

Hehe...I gotta use that line sometime. :D

lol.. when the boards are lacking of really entertaining threads, you can always count on MKULTRA to come up with some doosy.

And the "Evil Kerry Supporters mock crying little girl" was any better? :p

Hehe...I gotta use that line sometime. :D



And the "Evil Kerry Supporters mock crying little girl" was any better? :p
well, they did.

But no, Im not as humorous as TRA is... try as I might, Im just too dry for any good standup.

whoa whoa there....

I think you think Im refering to a different article...
Currently on democracynow there is 4 things listed....

Neoliberalism and Hurricanes: Death Toll Rises in Caribbean

Targeting Immigrants in Arizona: Prop 200 and the November Election (subject of my first coment)

Campus Crackdown: Fox News Attacks Student Voter Registration Effort (subject of my second comment)

University of Arizona Professor Reported to FBI for "Hating" America

Incertonia... I had thought you and I had a tete a tete, at least enough to understand that the other wasn't completely unreasonable.My apologies. Reflex--I completely blanked on the first article.

In all fairness, though, the Proposition being discussed sounds like crap as well. You already have to jump through 5 kinds of hoops proving that you're a citizen to simply register to vote, and now they want to tack on another set of issues for a state that consistently ranks near the bottom in voter turnout.

My apologies. Reflex--I completely blanked on the first article.

In all fairness, though, the Proposition being discussed sounds like crap as well. You already have to jump through 5 kinds of hoops proving that you're a citizen to simply register to vote, and now they want to tack on another set of issues for a state that consistently ranks near the bottom in voter turnout.
I guess, concidering the lateness of the hour, my attempt at a humorous devil's advocate didnt go over that well....
Ok, I'll stick to topics Im really interested in i.e. gun control ones.
I do reserve the right to read TRA's threads... you have to admit some of them are funny.

Some of the ads encourage students to report any so-called anti-American faculty or statements made by professors. :eek: McCarthy is dead isn't he? Damn, I thought we left all that behind in the 70's.

Hehe...I gotta use that line sometime. :D



And the "Evil Kerry Supporters mock crying little girl" was any better? :p
sup

I guess, concidering the lateness of the hour, my attempt at a humorous devil's advocate didnt go over that well....
Ok, I'll stick to topics Im really interested in i.e. gun control ones.
I do reserve the right to read TRA's threads... you have to admit some of them are funny.
More often frustrating to me than funny, since I get linked to some of his rhetoric. I guess it's the way you must feel when someone acts like Michael Savage is the representative of conservative thought in the US.

So a student accused his/her professor of being "an anti-American communist who hates America", aye?

Would he/she have been recently failed in an academic course by this professor in question lately/ever?

This is much like the Spanish Inquisition who freed the slaves/serfs of the wealthy in order to extract 'testimony' from the slaves/serfs that the wealthy person in question is indeed a 'heretic'.

I'm willing to bet the person making this complaint has a history as a troublemaker and/or has mutliple arrests before.

This is such a repeat of McCarthy-ism. Next thing you know there'd be lynch mobs and show trials.

Boy, my American friends, you people get it rough!

Rant Over.

JiangGuo

Perhaps that student ought to spend time in a Third World dictatorship himself. That way he can learn to appreciate that in America he can write something like that about a state-sponsored educator without being "disappeared".

well, they did.

But no, Im not as humorous as TRA is... try as I might, Im just too dry for any good standup.
umm.. this is a SERIOUS thread :sniper:
Bush is trying to resurrect the Hitler Youth Movement

:eek: McCarthy is dead isn't he? Damn, I thought we left all that behind in the 70's.
MCCarthy died in the 50s from alcohol poisoning

Perhaps that student ought to spend time in a Third World dictatorship himself. That way he can learn to appreciate that in America he can write something like that about a state-sponsored educator without being "disappeared".
that student needs the severest form of corporal punishment

that student needs the severest form of corporal punishment

No, you doofus, he does not. He just needs to realize that in the kind of world that he wants to live in, where people with opposing viewpoints are removed, he would be one of the first people gone.

Turning those Left-wing seditionist professors over to the authorities won't do a bit of good. All the judges are Clinton appointees, so they'll just let them all go.

I say we need a fatwa against these ideological infidels. Students must be empowered to slay them on the spot when they stray into the land of Marxism. It's the only sure way to be rid of them all, at long last.

Are you with me. Republican brothers? Death to the Leftist infidels! I call holy jihad against these servants of Malak Ta’us! They are all haram, and must be slain like pigs and dogs!

"And of mankind he who purchases idle talks to mislead (people) from the Path of Allaah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allaah) by way of mockery, For such there will be a humiliating torment." [31:6].

So it is written. :D

Turning those Left-wing seditionist professors over to the authorities won't do a bit of good. All the judges are Clinton appointees, so they'll just let them all go.

I say we need a fatwa against these ideological infidels. Students must be empowered to slay them on the spot when they stray into the land of Marxism. It's the only ure way to be rid of them all, at long last.

Are you with me. Republican brothers? Death to the Leftist infidels! I call holy jihad against these servants of Malak Ta’us! They are all haram, and must be slain like pigs and dogs!

"And of mankind he who purchases idle talks to mislead (people) from the Path of Allaah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allaah) by way of mockery, For such there will be a humiliating torment." [31:6].

So it is written. :D

I think you're being sarcastic, but I can't tell.

More often frustrating to me than funny, since I get linked to some of his rhetoric. I guess it's the way you must feel when someone acts like Michael Savage is the representative of conservative thought in the US.
I laugh at Savage too...Only real differences between Savage and TRA are that Savage has a bigger audience.. and gets paid for it.

I laugh at Savage too...Only real differences between Savage and TRA are that Savage has a bigger audience.. and gets paid for it.
And is therefore, that much more dangerous. If he had even the tenuous hold on reality that Limbaugh does--and Limbaugh's is indeed tenuous--then Savage wouldn't be nearly as bad as he is. That people take him seriously frightens the bejesus out of me.

I always loved the U of A.

And is therefore, that much more dangerous. If he had even the tenuous hold on reality that Limbaugh does--and Limbaugh's is indeed tenuous--then Savage wouldn't be nearly as bad as he is. That people take him seriously frightens the bejesus out of me.

I can't take anything Limbaugh says seriously since he got fired as an ESPN NFL analyst for saying that Donovan McNabb is "overrated" and that the only reason the sports media gives him so much credit is because he's black. Once he said that, I realized that he'd completely lost his grasp on reality.

I can't take anything Limbaugh says seriously since he got fired as an ESPN NFL analyst for saying that Donovan McNabb is "overrated" and that the only reason the sports media gives him so much credit is because he's black. Once he said that, I realized that he'd completely lost his grasp on reality.Wasn't too long after that that he wound up in rehab, huh?

Wasn't too long after that that he wound up in rehab, huh?

That's it! He must've been drunk when he said that!

I mean, McNabb had one bad game, and Limbaugh's talking about how mediocre he is and how he's only good because he's black. He had to be drunk. What kind of "mediocre" player could lead his team to the NFC Championship game three years in a row?

That's it! He must've been drunk when he said that!

I mean, McNabb had one bad game, and Limbaugh's talking about how mediocre he is and how he's only good because he's black. He had to be drunk. What kind of "mediocre" player could lead his team to the NFC Championship game three years in a row?
More likely on Oxycontin--that's what he went to rehab for.

And now that McNabb has a dominant wide receiver--damn. Terrell Owens is an asshole, but he's been showing out for the Eagles already.

Michael Savage, he's the one that got fired from MSNBC for calling a gay caller a sodomite, and that he should get AIDS and die.

More likely on Oxycontin--that's what he went to rehab for.

And now that McNabb has a dominant wide receiver--damn. Terrell Owens is an asshole, but he's been showing out for the Eagles already.

Eh, booze, pills, either way, he's a moron for saying that.

Maybe the Eagles can not fall short this year. I was really looking forward to the Pats stomping on the Eagles in last year's Super Bowl.

Michael Savage, he's the one that got fired from MSNBC for calling a gay caller a sodomite, and that he should get AIDS and die.
Dunno... but it sure sounds like what he would say.

Dunno... but it sure sounds like what he would say.
Yeah--he did it. I actually hoped, when it happened, that Savage would sue MSNBC for the balance of his contract of the basis of "What the hell did you expect?"

Those who started speech policing shouldn't bitch when it turns around on them. This is a backlash of "political correctness" speech control.

"I believe that the university should check into David Gibbs. He is an anti-American communist who hates America and is trying to brainwash young people into thinking America sucks. He needs to go and live in a Third World country to appreciate what he has here. Have him investigated by the FBI. FBI has been contacted."

[/url]

If one of Gibbs' students has really written that text, there should be FBI-Investigations indeed. The ones who let that person study at university should be interrogated on why they didn't realize he or she was a dumbass.

No, you doofus, he does not. He just needs to realize that in the kind of world that he wants to live in, where people with opposing viewpoints are removed, he would be one of the first people gone.
he can come to that realization at the busy end of a paddle

There is no end. Nobody hates the chocolate. Because everyone loves the chocolate.

There is no end. Nobody hates the chocolate. Because everyone loves the chocolate.
is that an example of circular logic?

I've decided to go mad.

I've decided to go mad.
thats a relative concept

umm.. this is a SERIOUS thread :sniper:

Come on now, who do you think you're fooling?

:eek: McCarthy is dead isn't he? Damn, I thought we left all that behind in the 70's.
you mgiht want to remind tom ridge then

you mgiht want to remind tom ridge then

Tom Ridge and George W. Bush have nothing to do with this. The ads are being run by conservative student groups.

Tom Ridge and George W. Bush have nothing to do with this. The ads are being run by conservative student groups.
congratulations, you missed the joke

congratulations, you missed the joke

In that case, enlighten me, so that I might laugh with you.

No, you doofus, he does not. He just needs to realize that in the kind of world that he wants to live in, where people with opposing viewpoints are removed, he would be one of the first people gone.

No... in such a nation he would have empolyment security.

Come on now, who do you think you're fooling?
fools?

Tom Ridge and George W. Bush have nothing to do with this. The ads are being run by conservative student groups.
they always hide their sleaze behind front groups

Democracynow is fair and balanced

Lol :D

Lol :D democracynow can CRUSH foxnews (and even the corporatemedia) in a truth duel

democracynow can CRUSH foxnews (and even the corporatemedia) in a truth duel

A bacteria could crush Fox News.

A bacteria could crush Fox News.
I wish George Soros would create a peoples indy media empire to compete with Murdochs hate media

where do i get a democracynow.org t-shirt? i want one bad.

hehey TRA.

Welcome witch-hunt part 2.

where do i get a democracynow.org t-shirt? i want one bad.

hehey TRA.
they prolly sell em Kis--the left is always whining for money

yeah.. so what are you?

yeah.. so what are you?
Im a socialist libertarian

Im a socialist libertarian
what does that mean?? i seriously dont know.

Well it seems to me that many professors are a bit liberal or left-wing. But, hey that's their business.

what does that mean?? i seriously dont know.

Its close to anarchy.

:eek: McCarthy is dead isn't he? Damn, I thought we left all that behind in the 70's.

Um, McCarthy was CONSIDERABLY before the 1970s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

democracynow can CRUSH foxnews (and even the corporatemedia) in a truth duel

Here's a challenge. Let them release their memos and Fox News release theres. I bet you 3-1 that FNC kills Democracynow.org

and No! democracynow.org is not fair and balanced.

Democracynow is fair and balanced

And there, ladies and gentlement, is the crux of the problem. It's all in what you choose to believe. I've visited their site several times, and it's uniformly far left, in my own humble opinion.

what does that mean?? i seriously dont know.
It means you can be free from both govt and corporate oppression at the same time

Its close to anarchy.
anarchy is what made america great

Here's a challenge. Let them release their memos and Fox News release theres. I bet you 3-1 that FNC kills Democracynow.org

and No! democracynow.org is not fair and balanced.
Foxnews will have to go to the RNC to get all their memos-or at least from Murdochs desk.

and neither is Foxnews fair and balanced but if they can misues those words why cant everyone else? ;)

fools?

Makes sense. Only a fool would take this thread seriously.

Foxnews will have to go to the RNC to get all their memos-or at least from Murdochs desk.

Oh brother! If you truely do believe that MKULTRA then you really are a poster boy for the liberal wing of the Democratic Party.

and neither is Foxnews fair and balanced but if they can misues those words why cant everyone else? ;)

Neither is democracynow.org, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC! Fox News is more fair and balanced than all of these combined.

anarchy is what made america great

Pardon? When did we decend into Anarchy?

You posted another lying thread awhile ago about a raid on democracy now radio in Santa Cruz.. I sugest people who actually believe that are morons, but here..there were names in there that do not even exist, Santa Cruz has no Mayor, they have a city manager this is his name and number..anyone stupid enough to believe these posts by you is also probably too lazy to call, but here it is
Richard C. Wilson, City Manager
809 Center Street, Room 10
Santa Cruz, California 95060
(831) 420-5010
Fax: (831) 420-5011
As for this, this one has shown me that you indeed are making up your own news then trying to flame the Republican Party in some sort of protest in your deluded mind..I could just as easily create a thread "Kerry Supporters attack returning US troops coming from Iraq with teargas, thousands injured"

I don't see any mention of Santa Cruz or a mayor in the OP...What'd I miss?

lol.. when the boards are lacking of really entertaining threads, you can always count on MKULTRA to come up with some doosy.

Just going down that democracynow site...
Damn that Arizona for making sure that only citizens get to vote. I mean if only they would allow illegal immigrants to vote, why no end of wonders would happen.

Damn that Fox news... making sure that people follow the laws... I mean, arent laws meant to be broken?!?

Ah, you made my night TRA

It is in fact the right of students to register to vote wherever they attend school. It's a federal law passed in I believe 1970 to insure students would not be denyed the right to vote. Fox News has no business threatening law abiding citizens in such a way, of course we know they have no journalistic intentions at FOX.

Well it seems to me that many professors are a bit liberal or left-wing. But, hey that's their business.

That's true, it's been shown that the more education people have the more liberal they tend to be. Dick Cheney was quoted saying that as people gain more wealth they tend to vote Republican, unless they have too much education.
What's I really can't believe is that so many people are dredging up this 50 years gone kind of McCarthy diatribe, using words like commies and this practice of "turning people in" for having a politcal viewpoint. It was an embarrassment to the US then, and it's even more embarrassing now to think we have a whole new generation who have failed to progress or even have knowledge of their viewpoint and it's history. These are the same people who don't know the pledge of allegiance was originally written as a communist manifesto.

It is in fact the right of students to register to vote wherever they attend school. It's a federal law passed in I believe 1970 to insure students would not be denyed the right to vote. Fox News has no business threatening law abiding citizens in such a way, of course we know they have no journalistic intentions at FOX.

I believe that you have misread his statements.

Democracynow is fair and balanced
LOL Democracy Now makes communism look rightist..it is as far left as you can get.

That's true, it's been shown that the more education people have the more liberal they tend to be. Dick Cheney was quoted saying that as people gain more wealth they tend to vote Republican, unless they have too much education.
What's I really can't believe is that so many people are dredging up this 50 years gone kind of McCarthy diatribe, using words like commies and this practice of "turning people in" for having a politcal viewpoint. It was an embarrassment to the US then, and it's even more embarrassing now to think we have a whole new generation who have failed to progress or even have knowledge of their viewpoint and it's history. These are the same people who don't know the pledge of allegiance was originally written as a communist manifesto.

Actually it is incorrect. Cheney also never said any such thing. And the only reason it is ALMOST a fair statement is that professors etc. Live in a world of academia, where the values of the left really DO seem good and make sense.
I even agree with many of the values, but their application, in every single instance of recorded history, has been nothing short of a disaster.

umm.. this is a SERIOUS thread :sniper:
Bush is trying to resurrect the Hitler Youth Movement

Has nothing to do with Bush. The Homeland Security Dept. rightly is concerned of the prospects of terror a'la Madrid prior to this election. Looks to me like the student used that to get "even"with a professor that gave him a low score or something. While in theory professors such as the one mentioned ARE far too "left" for me to be happy about them being on the public payroll in a state school, nevertheless, he has every right to be a jerk(the professor) and the kid who pulled this stunt was an even bigger one.

That's true, it's been shown that the more education people have the more liberal they tend to be.

A fairer generalization would be that educated, intelligent conservatives gravitate toward business, while educated, intelligent liberals gravitate toward academia.

A fairer generalization would be that educated, intelligent conservatives gravitate toward business, while educated, intelligent liberals gravitate toward academia.
Very true, actually one of the truest generalizations I have seen :)

i seem to recall a number of polls where the more liberal people were better educated.

in the last federal election they had a histogram of which party people were voting for and what their level of education was. those who had bachelor's or phds were more likely to vote liberal or ndp while those who only had highschool educations or less were more likely to vote conservative.

Pardon? When did we decend into Anarchy?
when we stopped being a colony of Britain

i seem to recall a number of polls where the more liberal people were better educated.

in the last federal election they had a histogram of which party people were voting for and what their level of education was. those who had bachelor's or phds were more likely to vote liberal or ndp while those who only had highschool educations or less were more likely to vote conservative.

This is inaccurate. Pollsters(I can make a poll say ANYTHING by the questions) did take a sampling of about 500 people IN CALIFORNIA big surprise) but overall, who you vote for is a secret, you vote in a boothe, and you do not answer q's about education, or anything else.
Interestingly, if true this would disprove the Democrats always saying they are the party of the working class however. But even the Dems won't admit or brag about this poll for the same reason. They prefer people to THINK they are the party of the educated(read rich, the best educated people make MUCH more money than hs educated) while also making people THINK they are the party of the poor(read uneducated) and the party of the minority,etc...while in reality not actually BEING any of the above. If they really were, they would win every election. And of course as for being the party of minorities, How many Democratic presidents have had as many minorities in their cabinet as the current Republican president? NONE.

when we stopped being a colony of Britain

Even when we stopped being a colony of Britain, the colonies still had their own rules and laws, It was NEVER an anarchy. BTW, in the political spectrum , anarchy is as far right as you can get..it is the absence of ALL govt control(the goal of extreme conservatism), so I am still trying to figure you out:) Are you rightist or leftist? I would have assumed the leftist, but wanting fewer govt controls actually would make you a conservative.
Leftists on the other hand, want more controls, more taxes, social programs(themself a form of control)etc.

"anarchy is as far right as you can get"

No, actually it's as far left as one can go. Any reading of the history, background, ideas, etc. of Anarchy make this pretty clear. I'd suggest going to this site for more information.

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html

"Leftists on the other hand, want more controls, more taxes, social programs(themself a form of control)etc."

Both sides want more control.

"This is inaccurate."

No, actually it's not. Individuals in urban areas tend to have higher levels of education than those in rural areas. Those in urban areas tend to lean liberal, while those in rural areas lean conservative. You do the math.

"anarchy is as far right as you can get"

No, actually it's as far left as one can go. Any reading of the history, background, ideas, etc. of Anarchy make this pretty clear. I'd suggest going to this site for more information.

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html

"Leftists on the other hand, want more controls, more taxes, social programs(themself a form of control)etc."

Both sides want more control.

"This is inaccurate."

No, actually it's not. Individuals in urban areas tend to have higher levels of education than those in rural areas. Those in urban areas tend to lean liberal, while those in rural areas lean conservative. You do the math.
Yes it is inaccurate. Your assertion that rural areas equals less education does not do your point justice. Urban areas are more densly packed, leading to inner city areas where the education level is decidedly lacking.
It's a myth that liberals are more educated or "smarter" than conservatives, and one perpetrated by liberal institutions like The Peoples Republic of Berkely, where they tried to get conservativism classified as a mental illness.

"anarchy is as far right as you can get"

No, actually it's as far left as one can go. Any reading of the history, background, ideas, etc. of Anarchy make this pretty clear. I'd suggest going to this site for more information.

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html

"Leftists on the other hand, want more controls, more taxes, social programs(themself a form of control)etc."

Both sides want more control.

"This is inaccurate."

No, actually it's not. Individuals in urban areas tend to have higher levels of education than those in rural areas. Those in urban areas tend to lean liberal, while those in rural areas lean conservative. You do the math.

The goal of extreme(NOT ALL) conservatism(right) is NO government controls over ANYTHING--this equates to anarchy.
The goal of EXTREME(not all) liberalism is usually seen as erasing government controls, but in reality is erasing those controls which they see as interfering with them, and increasing those which are in their favor(no anti gay marriage laws, increased gun control laws, no anti abortion laws, increased PC type enforcement and "civil rights" laws, etc..freedom of speech for those who agree with them, laws in place to arrest the same freedom of speech for those who dissent(as in civil rights violations, "discrimination", etc.)
Liberals also in favor of more laws controlling admissions to schools(affirmative action) etc etc etc. While SOME conservatives(the Christian right) are in favor of such things as abortion laws(in their view it is murder, an easy law to make) The primary difference between the two is that conservatives believe you should have the right to do more individually, with less govt interference.
As for the rest of your argument--you do the math, individuals in urban areas tend to be minority and undereducated, at least the part that usually is a "lock"to vote democrat. Those in the urban areas who ARE educated generally(not always,but the majority) are there as businessmen/businesswomen..those who the democrats normally claim themselves are Republican(the rich businesses taking everything away from the working class, getting their taxbreaks at the expense of the working class, etc)
So, either the Dems are in reality the party THEMSELVES of the rich(possible if you are correct in your assertion) or they are the party of the uneducated working class(their own usual assumption) They can't be both as I stated before("you do the math")or they would win every election hands down.
Census data is fairly easily obtainable, and that from my own hometown(urban area) closely matches that of most of the country. The "urban area", the actual CITY, average education is "some high school" votes in last election 68% Dem. the suburban area(where, in reality, MOST of the educated you mention live) average education is "some college" voted in last election (as did my state overall)Republican , in our suburban area roughly by 58%-42%, in the state overall close to the same numbers.

Yes it is inaccurate. Your assertion that rural areas equals less education does not do your point justice. Urban areas are more densly packed, leading to inner city areas where the education level is decidedly lacking.
It's a myth that liberals are more educated or "smarter" than conservatives, and one perpetrated by liberal institutions like The Peoples Republic of Berkely, where they tried to get conservativism classified as a mental illness.

Good point:)

Actually it is incorrect. Cheney also never said any such thing. And the only reason it is ALMOST a fair statement is that professors etc. Live in a world of academia, where the values of the left really DO seem good and make sense.
I even agree with many of the values, but their application, in every single instance of recorded history, has been nothing short of a disaster.

To which values are you referring?

Many values of the left are currently being applied in several countries and disaster has not yet occurred. Sweden and Norway seem to be doing just fine. Canada doesn't seem in immediate danger of collapse. Japan is having a bit of economic trouble now, but that much to with the structure of their banks and problems brought about by the faltering of certain industries in the free market and absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they have socialized medicine.

"Yes it is inaccurate. Your assertion that rural areas equals less education does not do your point justice. Urban areas are more densly packed, leading to inner city areas where the education level is decidedly lacking."

When people graduate college, where do they go from there? Back to the small town to work at the local cafe? Work on the family farm? Of course not, the oppurtunities afforded them by their education reside in urban areas. So often what occurs is you have individuals leaving rural areas for urban areas (because that's where colleges tend to be located) for higher levels of schooling, and then not returning to the small town they grew up.

"It's a myth that liberals are more educated or "smarter" than conservatives, and one perpetrated by liberal institutions"

So is it then a myth that professors, students, and academics are dominated by liberals and liberal views?

"The goal of EXTREME(not all) liberalism is usually seen as erasing government controls, but in reality is erasing those controls which they see as interfering with them, and increasing those which are in their favor(no anti gay marriage laws, increased gun control laws, no anti abortion laws, increased PC type enforcement and "civil rights" laws, etc..freedom of speech for those who agree with them, laws in place to arrest the same freedom of speech for those who dissent(as in civil rights violations, "discrimination", etc.)"

Seen by you, right? What you talk about is a hypocrisy that is shared by many on both sides, especially those on the extreme. Individuals have their core values or issues that they will fight for, and likewise have values or issues they fight against.

At best you can claim a circular model for political idealogies, where far right and far left "meet" at anarchy. Even then though, it's clear that the literature and history of anarchy is dominated by those that are on the far left.

"So, either the Dems are in reality the party THEMSELVES of the rich(possible if you are correct in your assertion) or they are the party of the uneducated working class(their own usual assumption) They can't be both as I stated before"

Both parties are the "party of the rich". Each of them are dominated and controlled by money and those that have it.

"As for the rest of your argument--you do the math, individuals in urban areas tend to be minority and undereducated, at least the part that usually is a "lock"to vote democrat."

Urban is a large concentration of individuals, not just "inner city" areas. This means then that suburbs also would be constituted as urban.

To which values are you referring?

Many values of the left are currently being applied in several countries and disaster has not yet occurred. Sweden and Norway seem to be doing just fine. Canada doesn't seem in immediate danger of collapse. Japan is having a bit of economic trouble now, but that much to with the structure of their banks and problems brought about by the faltering of certain industries in the free market and absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they have socialized medicine.

These governments, all of which are more in the center than on the left, certainly all do a fine job. The Swedish government, in particular, comes the closest to the left, and has actually made theirs(still not ON the left) work quite well. Norway and Japan, both of whom do a great deal rely on outside assistance for such things as defense, etc. have not really "made it work" as such, neither are they "leftist"governments..the fact that the US provides defense spending for these two countries allows them to do things that if they had to 100% provide said spending on their own, they would quickly find themselves unable to do.This is why their governments constantly plea with the US to not withdraw our support from such things as NATO(in Norways case) and not withdraw troops from Japan(in their case).
After the incidents in Okinawa, the American government preferred withdrawing the marine base there, or at least heavily reducing troops strength, and possibly would have done so, except for many late meetings and last minute pleas from the Japanese government. Canada, on the other hand, does not have a liberal government. Theirs today is closer than it was before, but for much of their history their ruling party has been conservative, and even their liberal party, is not THAT liberal in many issues.
The disasters of the left, that HAVE been leftist, include the frmr Sov Union, the Dem(haha)Ppl Rep of Korea, Cuba, PRC(which in reality, is starting in some ways to move to the right,capitalism is growing there, and because of this, they may actually survive, though not as a leftist govt.)

"
When people graduate college, where do they go from there? Back to the small town to work at the local cafe? Work on the family farm? Of course not, the oppurtunities afforded them by their education reside in urban areas. So often what occurs is you have individuals leaving rural areas for urban areas (because that's where colleges tend to be located) for higher levels of schooling, and then not returning to the small town they grew up.

"It's a myth that liberals are more educated or "smarter" than conservatives, and one perpetrated by liberal institutions"

So is it then a myth that professors, students, and academics are dominated by liberals and liberal views?

"The goal of EXTREME(not all) liberalism is usually seen as erasing government controls, but in reality is erasing those controls which they see as interfering with them, and increasing those which are in their favor(no anti gay marriage laws, increased gun control laws, no anti abortion laws, increased PC type enforcement and "civil rights" laws, etc..freedom of speech for those who agree with them, laws in place to arrest the same freedom of speech for those who dissent(as in civil rights violations, "discrimination", etc.)"

Seen by you, right? What you talk about is a hypocrisy that is shared by many on both sides, especially those on the extreme. Individuals have their core values or issues that they will fight for, and likewise have values or issues they fight against.

At best you can claim a circular model for political idealogies, where far right and far left "meet" at anarchy. Even then though, it's clear that the literature and history of anarchy is dominated by those that are on the far left.

"So, either the Dems are in reality the party THEMSELVES of the rich(possible if you are correct in your assertion) or they are the party of the uneducated working class(their own usual assumption) They can't be both as I stated before"

Both parties are the "party of the rich". Each of them are dominated and controlled by money and those that have it.

"As for the rest of your argument--you do the math, individuals in urban areas tend to be minority and undereducated, at least the part that usually is a "lock"to vote democrat."

Urban is a large concentration of individuals, not just "inner city" areas. This means then that suburbs also would be constituted as urban.

While I actually agree with the general form of your point, a difference must be made between educators(definately liberal) and the educated.
Read the rest of my post you quoted some of..those NON"inner city areas" where the educated live usually, actually do NOT vote Democrat , or at least, not a majority.
Those who live their lives in the world of academia(students and professors) and who seldom venture into the real world, are highly liberal. Once the educated people see more of the real world, they are at best a 50/50 tossup between Cons/liberal values, and depending how much of the real world they see, increases the conservatism for the most part. The military, who sees alot more of the real world than we prefer usually, is HIGHLY conservative.

"While I actually agree with the general form of your point, a difference must be made between educators(definately liberal) and the educated.
Read the rest of my post you quoted some of..those NON"inner city areas" where the educated live usually, actually do NOT vote Democrat , or at least, not a majority."

A lot of it depends upon how the outer areas, i.e. suburbs, are made up. For example, is it primarily composed of people from big cities moving further out? People who have lived in small towns who wanted more "oppurtunity" (not in a negative way, but rather in schooling, work, etc.) who move closer to the big city? A large amount of minorities that are attracted for job oppurtunities?

My God, it's like Moaist China... LET THE BOOK BURNING BEGIN!!!

Hell, we can rename "The Cultural Revolution" to "Americanism" and "The Red Guard" to "The Young Republicans"...

oh wait...

"While I actually agree with the general form of your point, a difference must be made between educators(definately liberal) and the educated.
Read the rest of my post you quoted some of..those NON"inner city areas" where the educated live usually, actually do NOT vote Democrat , or at least, not a majority."

A lot of it depends upon how the outer areas, i.e. suburbs, are made up. For example, is it primarily composed of people from big cities moving further out? People who have lived in small towns who wanted more "oppurtunity" (not in a negative way, but rather in schooling, work, etc.) who move closer to the big city? A large amount of minorities that are attracted for job oppurtunities?

For the most part, they are those you mention, who left home and got their degrees, then went to the "city"..very few educated people really want to live in the "city" :)

My God, it's like Moaist China... LET THE BOOK BURNING BEGIN!!!

Hell, we can rename "The Cultural Revolution" to "Americanism" and "The Red Guard" to "The Young Republicans"...

oh wait...

How very liberal of you... In Maoist China you mentioned, the Professor would have been executed for simply being a professor. In America it is worth a laugh and alot of people talking about it. In a communist country, no one would have known about it, he simply would have vanished. In America, he is still quite well, making his money off his leftist views,and being looked at as some sort of "martyr" by people who have no idea of the meaning of sacrifice.

"For the most part, they are those you mention, who left home and got their degrees, then went to the "city"..very few educated people really want to live in the "city""

I know what you mean...I'll have to drag the fiancee kicking and screaming to go to somewhere like the University of Minnesota.

"For the most part, they are those you mention, who left home and got their degrees, then went to the "city"..very few educated people really want to live in the "city""

I know what you mean...I'll have to drag the fiancee kicking and screaming to go to somewhere like the University of Minnesota.

Lol, best of luck to you. I have just 3 days more with my own fiancee before I am back to duty.

Cirene, if you are going to quote multiple people, please credit them. It helps keep things sorted. At first I thought you were making up things to quote to me but it was actually Takrai you quoted.

The fact that "higher education" institutions are more liberally skewed are because they practice active political descrimination against conservatives.

Even when we stopped being a colony of Britain, the colonies still had their own rules and laws, It was NEVER an anarchy. BTW, in the political spectrum , anarchy is as far right as you can get..it is the absence of ALL govt control(the goal of extreme conservatism), so I am still trying to figure you out:) Are you rightist or leftist? I would have assumed the leftist, but wanting fewer govt controls actually would make you a conservative.
Leftists on the other hand, want more controls, more taxes, social programs(themself a form of control)etc.
I want as little govt control as possible except in areas where things start becoming monopolistic then we need to govt to break it up