NationStates Jolt Archive

This will be the first (and probably only) thread I ever start. I made sure that noone had made a thread about this before (so far as I can tell)... at least with regards to the metric system and countries that don't use it (as opposed to the couple of threads in regards to the idea of metric time).

My basic question is this: Don't you (countries that don't use metric system) think it's about time that we (I'm from America) fully integrated the metric system into our culture? Aren't you tired of converting everything into "foreign" measurements for all aspects of your life? Isn't the fact that a multi-million dollar Mars lander was ruined due to the two systems conflicting with each other (didn't convert measurements) reason enough?

I know some of you like to be individual and different and have everything "American", and perhaps a rare few are twisted enough to be put off by the metric system simply because it was originally French...

But honestly, with all of our differences from the rest of our world, can't something as simple as a system of measurement be the same? Isn't our overall goal unity, in one form or another, and one of the first and most easily achievable steps at it having a consistent measuring system?

I mean, come on! It's base 10!

That is all... My little rant and dance about how finally ridding ourselves of an archaic measuring system (some conversions of which I don't even know) will help bring about world peace (ya right), or at least make things a whole lot simpler (either in real life situations, or homework problems).

I'm sorry that I didn't address the other countries that are too stubborn (and stupid) to use the metric system, I was primarily addressing my own (America), and honestly I'm not sure to what degree other countries use the English system anymore...

...Which reminds me... I should start a thread about getting rid of pennies...

yes the metric system is better and yes, the only reason that americans dont want to use it is out stubborness (not helped by the fact that it was first promoted by Napoleon who was pretty much a frenchman and thus clearly bad)

lol... this is scarily appropriate as I'm currently grading reading logs that touch on that topic.

The students would definitely appreciate only having one system of measurement to deal with. :) They keep complaining about having to learn a different system than they grew up with.

it would be a very good idea for everyone to use the metric system. It's easier to learn and it would make it easier to communicate measurements to other countries.

"The metric system is the tool of the devil!"
"But, I'm Canadian and I use it."
"Canada is the devil!"

Anywho...

While the US has in fact been incorporating the metric system for quite some time now it has been very slow and, yes, stubborn about it.

They need to pick things up a bit.

And I wouldn't bother with that penny thing. They really do need them for economic reasons. All those pennies go places. Remember Office Space or Superman II (I think that's where they got the idea from in Office Space) where they collect every fraction of a penny left over and it would build up to millions.

Think about that but with WHOLE pennies. A lot of money would go missing over time without them.

My basic question is this: Don't you (countries that don't use metric system) think it's about time that we (I'm from America) fully integrated the metric system into our culture? Aren't you tired of converting everything into "foreign" measurements for all aspects of your life? ...
I don't know where you work, but I've never had to do standard to metric conversions anywhere I've worked. And I certainly don't have to do it at home.
Isn't the fact that a multi-million dollar Mars lander was ruined due to the two systems conflicting with each other (didn't convert measurements) reason enough?
Was there a reason the craft had to do it's own conversion? Why could we not have done the conversion on a friggin' calculator back on earth?
I know some of you like to be individual and different and have everything "American", and perhaps a rare few are twisted enough to be put off by the metric system simply because it was originally French...

But honestly, with all of our differences from the rest of our world, can't something as simple as a system of measurement be the same? Isn't our overall goal unity, in one form or another, and one of the first and most easily achievable steps at it having a consistent measuring system?

I mean, come on! It's base 10!

That is all... My little rant and dance about how finally ridding ourselves of an archaic measuring system (some conversions of which I don't even know) will help bring about world peace (ya right), or at least make things a whole lot simpler (either in real life situations, or homework problems).

I'm sorry that I didn't address the other countries that are too stubborn (and stupid) to use the metric system, I was primarily addressing my own (America), and honestly I'm not sure to what degree other countries use the English system anymore...

...Which reminds me... I should start a thread about getting rid of pennies...
In the long run, yes it would be easier, but I don't think it will happen in our lifetime, as it will cost WAY too much to implement, not that our gov't has a problem with spending a lot of money.

AND WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PENNIES?!!

Ya, Office Space (I love that movie) got it from Superman...

I guess you're right... I don't know that much about economics, but I would be assuming that as we phased out pennies we'd make other currency to compensate.

==

Care to tell us why you voted "No"?

If we got rid of pennies, wouldn't retail stores round up to the next nickel, ripping us off even more? I know pennies can be a pain in the ass to carry around, but it beats the alternative.

The metric system is indeed easy to use:

10 millimeter = 1 centimeter
10 centimeter = 1 decimeter
10 decimeter = 1 meter
1000 meter = 1 kilometer

I think it is a matter of usage. If it was decided to use both for some time and eventually switch to meters, even the Americans could learn to use the worldwide metric system :)


And while we're at it, it is not "lbs" but milligrams, grams, kilograms and tons.

I don't know where you work, but I've never had to do standard to metric conversions anywhere I've worked. And I certainly don't have to do it at home.

"Standard" isn't standard. "Metric" or SI (Systeme Internationale) is the international scientific method. I have to make conversions in all of my homework (for school), when talking online and on the phone with people from other countries, when traveling, etc.

Besides, it's easier with just ONE thing, for at least one aspect of the world...

And it's base 10. I don't know how many ounces are in a cup. I don't know how many ounces are in a pound. I don't know why the fuck there is the same unit of measurement (or at least the same name) for two types of measurements!!

Was there a reason the craft had to do it's own conversion? Why could we not have done the conversion on a friggin' calculator back on earth?

No, I'm afraid you don't remember (read the newspaper?) or understand. The craft was being built in two places (California and Texas if I recall). In one place they used metric, in the other, English... The trajectory was flawed, the landing, a crash. I think this was two years ago.

In the long run, yes it would be easier, but I don't think it will happen in our lifetime, as it will cost WAY too much to implement, not that our gov't has a problem with spending a lot of money.

That's what people keep saying, but it honestly isn't true. We're phasing it out now, with most (if not all) of our liquid measurements in milliliters in food/drink products. All of our measuring tools have one side English and one side metric. All of our cars measure miles and kilometers. All of our scales measure centimeters and inches, kilograms and pounds.

A simple change in policy is the only thing that will effect an actual change.

And it's a very inexpensive task. As I've said before, most, if not all, or our products are made (out of the coutnry) with both measurements already, and the change in education/media/newspaper/medical practitioners/etc. is part of a changing culture.

I don't want to wait till after "my lifetime" to see some change. If people want the change now, then there is NO reason why it can't be done.

AND WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PENNIES?!!

Nothing... if you're a cheaper Jew than me.

Well, here's the thing.

We actually know both systems. Kids in High School are being taught the metric system. Hell, almost if not every Science teacher makes their kids use the metric system ONLY. They take points off for using the standard system.

It's not hard at all to use both systems actually. It's like knowing two languages. Your basically asking me why don't I tell my old language to **** off and embrace the new one? Would you like it if I told you to quit using English and convert to Spanish? No, of course you wouldn't like it very much. No, I don't care that you never got a chance to reply.

So, all in all, quit asking. Just let the American educational system work it's way through the heads of kids, and by another decade or two, perhaps 50% of Americans would completly understand the metric system and you can sleep peacefully knowing that another country bowed down to the New Imperial System.

It's like knowing two languages.

Hardly. A language is vastly more complex than a few conversion formulae. English has a vocabulary of over 500,000 words.

Hardly. A language is vastly more complex than a few conversion formulae. English has a vocabulary of over 500,000 words.
It's an example

It's an example

Yes. Just not a very effective one. Learning the metric system is so much easier than learning spanish, it doesn't bear thinking about. I wouldn't want to give up english in favour of spanish, because it would take years to achieve fluency, and a whole load of effort. You could figure out the metric system in less than a week. It's all in base ten, for crying out loud.

So, all in all, quit asking. Just let the American educational system work it's way through the heads of kids, and by another decade or two, perhaps 50% of Americans would completly understand the metric system and you can sleep peacefully knowing that another country bowed down to the New Imperial System.

Colodia, you know damn well I'm American.

People always say "wait another decade"

You might be able to understand two languages (I can't) but you only think in one.

Once again, in the case of this analogy, I don't understand English (get it? English system?) and it's a lot more irregular than Spanish (once again with the language puns).

Our current culture isn't strict enough to have taught me to the point that I can visualize in metric measurements.

BASE TEN!

Yeesh. I thought I would hold my tongue and not say anything about conservatives, but come on...

It's not hard at all to use both systems actually. It's like knowing two languages. Your basically asking me why don't I tell my old language to **** off and embrace the new one? Would you like it if I told you to quit using English and convert to Spanish? No, of course you wouldn't like it very much. No, I don't care that you never got a chance to reply.

I actually find it funny. I am so used to doing things in different systems that my preferred system depends on exactly what it is. I need large measurements in feet (ie square footage) but small measurements in metric (centimeter/millimeter size). I need the temperature outside in Farenheit to have a good idea of how to dress, but anything near body temperature/water boiling/etc. should be given to me in Centigrade (nobody uses Kelvins really except those pesky Chemists.) Of course, in all things chemistry and engergy related, I need metric - after all, what the hell is a slug or a BTU?

There is a reason to use standard measurements instead of metric. The same reason to use degrees instead of radians.

It's just easy to use.

I mean, so what if it's base ten? What can you divide ten by? Two and five. Contrast this with twelve (inches to the foot): 2, 3, 4, and 6. There is no, repeat, NO reason to use metric, say, in construction, where you need to do a lot of math in your head, very quickly. It's just easier to do it with feet.

I'm not saying things like the number of feet in a mile are smart; but back off standard measurement. It has its place. I'm all for the bilingual theory myself. We'll use metric when you folks start learning Imperial ^_^

Yes. Just not a very effective one. Learning the metric system is so much easier than learning spanish, it doesn't bear thinking about. I wouldn't want to give up english in favour of spanish, because it would take years to achieve fluency, and a whole load of effort. You could figure out the metric system in less than a week. It's all in base ten, for crying out loud.

And you aren't giving up much. Any five year old (yes, that young) can tell you all of the metric conversions.


Once again, I guarantee that NOONE here is capable of telling me all of the English conversions.

There is a reason to use standard measurements instead of metric. The same reason to use degrees instead of radians.

It's just easy to use.

I mean, so what if it's base ten? What can you divide ten by? Two and five. Contrast this with twelve (inches to the foot): 2, 3, 4, and 6. There is no, repeat, NO reason to use metric, say, in construction, where you need to do a lot of math in your head, very quickly. It's just easier to do it with feet.

I'm not saying things like the number of feet in a mile are smart; but back off standard measurement. It has its place. I'm all for the bilingual theory myself. We'll use metric when you folks start learning Imperial ^_^

I'm not so upset about length. The arguement you gave is a very very good one... although 10 is easily divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 12 as well.

And I think (after a decade or so of being told) I can remember how many feet in a mile.

But with weights and volumes... Seriously.

Colodia, you know damn well I'm American.
now, yes

People always say "wait another decade"
Things take time, chaos will reign if Americans were suddenly forced to use the metric system.

You might be able to understand two languages (I can't) but you only think in one.
Not really, many people who truly know two languages can think with both.

Once again, in the case of this analogy, I don't understand English (get it? English system?) and it's a lot more irregular than Spanish (once again with the language puns).
Wait, your American and don't understand basic units of measurement?

Our current culture isn't strict enough to have taught me to the point that I can visualize in metric measurements.
And our parents weren't taught sufficiently enough on sex ed. The education system changes, standards change.

BASE TEN!
It keeps your mind a lot more active jumping around numbers than to move a decimal over right or left.

Yeesh. I thought I would hold my tongue and not say anything about conservatives, but come on...
I'm a liberal.

And you aren't giving up much. Any five year old (yes, that young) can tell you all of the metric conversions.


Once again, I guarantee that NOONE here is capable of telling me all of the English conversions.
well there's ONE counter-example to the "all Americans are stupid" stereotype...

12 in = 1 ft
3 ft = 1 yd

etc. etc. sue me, it's 9:56 p.m. :)

I mean, so what if it's base ten? What can you divide ten by? Two and five. Contrast this with twelve (inches to the foot): 2, 3, 4, and 6. There is no, repeat, NO reason to use metric, say, in construction, where you need to do a lot of math in your head, very quickly. It's just easier to do it with feet.

The main advantage is speed and efficiency. It's a lot faster and easier to work out exactly how many kilometres 617,456 metres is, than to work out how many miles 617,456 yards is, especially to an exact decimal figure.

Well, here's the thing.

We actually know both systems. Kids in High School are being taught the metric system. Hell, almost if not every Science teacher makes their kids use the metric system ONLY. They take points off for using the standard system.

It's not hard at all to use both systems actually. It's like knowing two languages. Your basically asking me why don't I tell my old language to **** off and embrace the new one? Would you like it if I told you to quit using English and convert to Spanish? No, of course you wouldn't like it very much. No, I don't care that you never got a chance to reply.

So, all in all, quit asking. Just let the American educational system work it's way through the heads of kids, and by another decade or two, perhaps 50% of Americans would completly understand the metric system and you can sleep peacefully knowing that another country bowed down to the New Imperial System.

another??? dont you mean the last..
or are their other nations that use the non metric still?

another??? dont you mean the last..
or are their other nations that use the non metric still?
The US education system is oldfashioned, US-centric and out of this reality ;)
I just say... sexual education...

God, it IS about time we switched. I grew up with the imperial system, with a smattering of metric, but I would be willing to learn another way, or have my children raised on strictly metric. It makes more sense. The metric system is logical. Everything is on a base of 10, and the measurements transfer to others, like a litre of water weighing a kilogram, etc. Most of the imperial system is so arbitrary, it makes no sense even to those who grew up on it. Many of us can't say how many feet are in a mile without looking it up, but anyone can tell you how many meters are in a kilometer.

The only concern I'd have is that we'd end up getting cheated on gas, like the UK did when they switched to litres, or something like the switcheroo with prices they pulled in Europe when they converted to the Euro. The potential is definitely there.

I actually find it funny. I am so used to doing things in different systems that my preferred system depends on exactly what it is. I need large measurements in feet (ie square footage) but small measurements in metric (centimeter/millimeter size). I need the temperature outside in Farenheit to have a good idea of how to dress, but anything near body temperature/water boiling/etc. should be given to me in Centigrade (nobody uses Kelvins really except those pesky Chemists.) Of course, in all things chemistry and engergy related, I need metric - after all, what the hell is a slug or a BTU?


Hey, stop mocking Kelvin

Engineers use it too

There is a reason to use standard measurements instead of metric. The same reason to use degrees instead of radians.

It's just easy to use.

I mean, so what if it's base ten? What can you divide ten by? Two and five. Contrast this with twelve (inches to the foot): 2, 3, 4, and 6. There is no, repeat, NO reason to use metric, say, in construction, where you need to do a lot of math in your head, very quickly. It's just easier to do it with feet.

I'm not saying things like the number of feet in a mile are smart; but back off standard measurement. It has its place. I'm all for the bilingual theory myself. We'll use metric when you folks start learning Imperial ^_^

Using ten you can have
0, 2.5, 5, 7.5, and 10... the idea of decimals isn't exactly brain surgery here. But still, to convert from foot to yard you have to convert by 3, and please, praytell, tell me how many inches (or yards) there are in a mile without looking it up. It's stupid. I can EASILY tell you how many meters there are in a kilometer.

And, it's a lot easier in manufacturing and construction to use quick design techniques when you're using something that's based on a factor of ten.

Damn, I always forget you claim to be liberal.

I was talking about this complicated crap.

1 mile (mi) = 5280 feet = 1760 yards = 8 furlongs = 80 chains
1 furlong = 220 yards = 10 chains
1 chain = 4 rods = 22 yards = 66 feet = 100 links
1 rod = 5.5 yards = 16.5 feet = 25 links
1 link = 7.92 inches
1 fathom = 2 yards = 6 feet
1 league = 3 nautical miles
1 nautical mile = 6076.12 feet = approximately 1 minute of latitude

1 acre = 43560 sq feet = 4840 sq yards = 10 sq chains = 160 sq rods
1 hectare = 2.47 acre

1 bushel = 4 pecks
1 peck = 8 quarts
1 quart = 2 pints

Even inconsistent between the Imperial and Standard!

1 standard U.S. bushel = 2,150.42 cubic inches = 1.2445 cubic feet
1 British Imperial bushel = 2,218.19 cubic inches = 1.2837 cubic feet
1 register ton (internal volume of ships) = 100 cubic feet
1 U.S. shipping ton = 40 cubic feet
1 British shipping ton = 42 cubic feet

1 cup = 8 fluid ounces
1 pint = 4 gills
1 quart = 2 pints = 4 cups
1 gallon = 4 quarts

1 U.S. Gallon = 231 cubic inches = 0.1337 cubic feet = 0.8327 Imperial Gallons
1 cubic foot = 7.481 U.S. Gallons = 957.5 fluid ounces
1 barrel = 42 US gallons (unrefined oil)

1 bag = 94 pounds (US cement)
1 kip = 1000 pounds
1 gross ton = 1 long ton = 2240 pounds
1 net ton = 1 short ton = 2000 pounds
1 pound = 16 ounces = 7000 grains = 0.03106 slugs
1 ounce = 16 drams = 437.5 grains
1 grain Troy = 1 grain avoirdupois = 1 grain apothercaries

1 pound = 12 ounces = 5760 grains
1 ounce = 20 pennyweights (d) = 480 grains
1 pennyweight = 24 grains
1 carat = 3.086 grains
1 grain Troy = 1 grain avoirdupois = 1 grain apothercaries' = 0.0648 gram
1 ounce(Avoirdupois) = 0.9115 ounce(Troy)


I've never even heard of chains, links, hectares! The stuff you "should" know is in bold.

Oh yeah, real convenient.

I use both metric and imperial.

I think we should use metric for distance measurements; how far, how big etc..., as well as measurement standards for products, but use imperial for height and weight.

Or, at least this is what I'm oddly enough used to. I'm stuck in that funny stage when they switched between the two systems. We were taught imperial in primary school, but metric in secondary.

I use both metric and imperial.

I think we should use metric for distance measurements; how far, how big etc..., as well as measurement standards for products, but use imperial for height and weight.

Or, at least this is what I'm oddly enough used to. I'm stuck in that funny stage when they switched between the two systems. We were taught imperial in primary school, but metric in secondary.

But what would you do if you needed to use both weight and distance (as for example to find the density of a fluid and then though propriate analysis of it's flow through a pipe of a certain radius)? That might make it even more confusing.

Not to mention that weight contains a unit of lenght in it already (kg*m/s^2 in SI). So would we use meters to count distance but then keep use lb for weight?

Using ten you can have
0, 2.5, 5, 7.5, and 10... the idea of decimals isn't exactly brain surgery here. But still, to convert from foot to yard you have to convert by 3, and please, praytell, tell me how many inches (or yards) there are in a mile without looking it up. It's stupid. I can EASILY tell you how many meters there are in a kilometer.

And, it's a lot easier in manufacturing and construction to use quick design techniques when you're using something that's based on a factor of ten.

In construction, you NEVER have to worry about miles. Didn't I admit the mile was silly?

Don't try to tell me it's easier to use metric in construction. My dad was a carpenter for ten years, and has written about it for another ten since, and he's said time and time again- feet just make more sense. You want to be able to do the math in your head, and quickly and accurately, and you just can't do that as well (as quickly or as accurately) with base ten than base twelve.

I mean, mathematicians find radians astoundingly more useful than degrees. But that doesn't mean it's the better system, for the same reason- degrees can be wrangled easily and quickly, and radians just can't.

But what would you do if you needed to use both weight and distance (as for example to find the density of a fluid and then though propriate analysis of it's flow through a pipe of a certain radius)? That might make it even more confusing.
Assuming you're talking pressure, most people don't know the difference between a Pascal, PSI, or inches/millimetres of mercury. The people that do, probably wouldn't have a problem with the units.

Not to mention that weight contains a unit of lenght in it already (kg*m/s^2 in SI). So would we use meters to count distance but then keep use lb for weight? There's nothing stopping you from doing so if you really wanted.

1 mile (mi) = 5280 feet = 1760 yards = 8 furlongs = 80 chains
1 furlong = 220 yards = 10 chains
1 chain = 4 rods = 22 yards = 66 feet = 100 links
1 rod = 5.5 yards = 16.5 feet = 25 links
1 link = 7.92 inches
1 fathom = 2 yards = 6 feet
1 league = 3 nautical miles
1 nautical mile = 6076.12 feet = approximately 1 minute of latitude

1 acre = 43560 sq feet = 4840 sq yards = 10 sq chains = 160 sq rods
1 hectare = 2.47 acre

1 bushel = 4 pecks
1 peck = 8 quarts
1 quart = 2 pints

Even inconsistent between the Imperial and Standard!

1 standard U.S. bushel = 2,150.42 cubic inches = 1.2445 cubic feet
1 British Imperial bushel = 2,218.19 cubic inches = 1.2837 cubic feet
1 register ton (internal volume of ships) = 100 cubic feet
1 U.S. shipping ton = 40 cubic feet
1 British shipping ton = 42 cubic feet

1 cup = 8 fluid ounces
1 pint = 4 gills
1 quart = 2 pints = 4 cups
1 gallon = 4 quarts

1 U.S. Gallon = 231 cubic inches = 0.1337 cubic feet = 0.8327 Imperial Gallons
1 cubic foot = 7.481 U.S. Gallons = 957.5 fluid ounces
1 barrel = 42 US gallons (unrefined oil)

1 bag = 94 pounds (US cement)
1 kip = 1000 pounds
1 gross ton = 1 long ton = 2240 pounds
1 net ton = 1 short ton = 2000 pounds
1 pound = 16 ounces = 7000 grains = 0.03106 slugs
1 ounce = 16 drams = 437.5 grains
1 grain Troy = 1 grain avoirdupois = 1 grain apothercaries

1 pound = 12 ounces = 5760 grains
1 ounce = 20 pennyweights (d) = 480 grains
1 pennyweight = 24 grains
1 carat = 3.086 grains
1 grain Troy = 1 grain avoirdupois = 1 grain apothercaries' = 0.0648 gram
1 ounce(Avoirdupois) = 0.9115 ounce(Troy)


I've never even heard of chains, links, hectares! The stuff you "should" know is in bold.

Oh yeah, real convenient.
let's compare this to the appalling metric system:
10 millimetre = 1 centimetre
100 centimetres = 1 metre
1000 metres = kilometre

1 hectare = 100 square metres

1 millimetre = 1 cubic centimetre
1000 millilitre = 1 litre
1000 litres = 1 cubic metre

1000 grams = 1 kilogram
1000 kilograms = 1 tonne

Yep. I can see how Americans could fid that too difficult to grasp.
Unlike having to learn all the above (in quotes), including the difference between British and American Imperial measures :rolleyes:

BTW you forgot hogsheads, drachms, scruples, poles/perches, virgates, hides, roods... ;)

In construction, you NEVER have to worry about miles. Didn't I admit the mile was silly?

Don't try to tell me it's easier to use metric in construction. My dad was a carpenter for ten years, and has written about it for another ten since, and he's said time and time again- feet just make more sense. You want to be able to do the math in your head, and quickly and accurately, and you just can't do that as well (as quickly or as accurately) with base ten than base twelve.

I mean, mathematicians find radians astoundingly more useful than degrees. But that doesn't mean it's the better system, for the same reason- degrees can be wrangled easily and quickly, and radians just can't.

Your analogy is false though. Your analogy is using radians and degrees. The number of radians in a circle is an irrational number, thus harder to use than 360 degrees. The metric system is based on the number 10, the inch/ feet is on the number 12. The number 10 is easier to use. Your analogy, is backwards.

Construction won't be that harshly affected. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 are just as easily used in a system of 10 then a system of 12. In fact it's easier to convert from percentages and fractions in a base of ten than a base of 12.

Feet will obviously make more sense if you've used it for 30 years, but hey, in the end we have to convert sometime.

Plus, construction is just one area where feet are better; that doesn't make it so for everything else. It isn't any better for manufacturing, or plumbing, or a million other examples. In the end, using a base of 10 is easier than a base of 12. The only reason a foot is better than a meter, is because a meter is larger than a foot, and thus, harder to use for construction (where everything is made in a size very well manageable by a small amount of feet), but that doesn't make it all that much superior than a decimeter. True, you'd have to use more decimeters, but again, dividing by ten is a hellavulot easier than dividing by twelve. What's 127 divided by 10? 12.7! Wow, the reminder is even applicable in a base of 10. What's 127 divided by 12? 10.58333... yuk. It looks fine as 7/12, but doesn't look that great for applications were decimals are necessary.

I prefer the English system, which is a very outdated name but that is beside the point. Anyway, here is why:

You know how sometimes when you convert a figure into another type of figure, such as -- using the "English" system -- 1 mile (</>) 5,280 feet. Really, they are equal, but saying 1 mile doesn't seem like nearly as much.

Now, I live in Wyoming where the speed limit is 75 miles per hour. To say that it is approximately 120 kilometers per hour would be equal but seem much faster until you look at the speedometer in your vehicle.

Another example: I love (American) football, particularly the Chicago Bears and I find it much less wierd hearing that running back Thomas Jones has 219 rushing yards than ~ 200 rushing meters. Either way that is 2nd in the NFC and 7th in the NFL.

After all, while not everything is, liquid measures are based on powers of 2:


1 cup = 8 ounces
1 pint = 16 ounces
1 quart = 32 ounces
1 gallon = 4 quarts = 8 pints = 16 cups = 128 ounces

And just 'cause we discontinue it doesn't mean it's gone forever.

Like Latin, I find obsolete forms of measurement fascinating... (bad example, Latin is superior to most languages grammatically... though English is superior in its expansive vocabulary)

*leaves thread for bed*

Assuming you're talking pressure, most people don't know the difference between a Pascal, PSI, or inches/millimetres of mercury. The people that do, probably wouldn't have a problem with the units.

Actually, I was talking density, fluid flow,etc, but pressure works too. The people who do know the difference, such as engineers, and scientist probably would have a difficult time with this system because they would have to design all manufacturing and marketable apparatus to take both systems into account. This would only mean placing a conversion into scientific equations, but it would mean a hell of a lot more difficulties in engineering equations that are solely rooted in a single system. You would have to use new constants, which would mean you'd have to find new data, using the hybrid system, and then plot it, and find it.

No, it wouldn't work.


There's nothing stopping you from doing so if you really wanted.

Of course there isn't anything to stop us except you'd get crazy new hybrid units.

For example, the lb per unit cubic meter, or the Newton per square inch, or the slug per cubic meter. Now, everyone has to go back and change any equations that relied on purely metric or english units (some of which are already confusing enough) and rearrange them, give them new constants, and republish them. Software programs would have to be reprogramed, and engineers would have to spend time learning new equations instead of producing.

Don't the US's beloved military use metric?

<snippage>
Another example: I love (American) football, particularly the Chicago Bears and I find it much less wierd hearing that running back Thomas Jones has 219 rushing yards than ~ 200 rushing meters. Either way that is 2nd in the NFC and 7th in the NFL.

<snippage>
Do you think he ran exactly 219 yards? They could just as well say that he rushed for 200 metres. Incidentaly in the CFL field is 100m long but marked in yards, so 55 yards is the centre line.

So exactly who is going to pay to change every mile (sorry km) marker, every exit sign and every other sign that involves distance in America?

Sorry - I'd rather stick with a system that everyone already knows and not have to pay billions of dollars in taxes just to convert to another system that is essentialy the same thing just with different units.

1 millimetre = 1 cubic centimetre

Wrong :)

1 millilitre = 1 cubic centimetre

I'm sticking with the American System, for me its just easier. Come on, most people in America would have a hard time estimating how long a 100km trip to Los Angeles or how much capacity a 1000 ml glass would be. Its easier for most Americans to envision things in ft, yds, miles, etc.

Besides, switching to metric would change Football rules, :)

I'm sticking with the American System, for me its just easier. Come on, most people in America would have a hard time estimating how long a 100km trip to Los Angeles or how much capacity a 1000 ml glass would be. Its easier for most Americans to envision things in ft, yds, miles, etc.

Besides, switching to metric would change Football rules, :)

It's only easier because we've lived with the system for so long. After we change to metric we will, in time, gain the same intuition we have now.

I agree with West Acron over here. This has been attempted but abandoned. You could still see the conversion attempt in some Western Highways though.

So exactly who is going to pay to change every mile (sorry km) marker, every exit sign and every other sign that involves distance in America?

Sorry - I'd rather stick with a system that everyone already knows and not have to pay billions of dollars in taxes just to convert to another system that is essentialy the same thing just with different units.

Other countries have quite happily done that, but none are anywhere the size of the US. Australia's probably the biggest so far.

My 3 problems with the metric system: There are too many useless measurements (or, rather, too many prefixes). How often do people express their height in decimeters? When was the last time you measured your weight in hectograms? If those were thrown out the window, it would make the metric system a bit less intimidating to Americans. Heck, while you're at it, dump prefixes altogether and use scientific notation. The gram is often misinterpreted to be a measure of force. It is NOT. The gram is a measurement of mass. The Americans have it right here (gasp!) -- the pound is a measurement of force. So there is no universal constant to convert between them because the gravitational force in France is different than in Alaska, which in turn is different from that in Ecuador. Sorry, you can't weigh yourself in kilograms. Just so you know, the metric unit of force is the newton, and the English unit of mass is the slug. Celsius is dumb. Kelvin rocks. Enough said. (Unless you want to say 'decidegree.')

It's only easier because we've lived with the system for so long. After we change to metric we will, in time, gain the same intuition we have now.

Well, thats true too.

but austrailia does not have NEARLY as many highways (especialy in the west) as the United States has.

And I thought the gravitational force on the planet is 9.something meters per second - constant everywhere.

My 3 problems with the metric system: There are too many useless measurements (or, rather, too many prefixes). How often do people express their height in decimeters? When was the last time you measured your weight in hectograms? If those were thrown out the window, it would make the metric system a bit less intimidating to Americans. Heck, while you're at it, dump prefixes altogether and use scientific notation. The gram is often misinterpreted to be a measure of force. It is NOT. The gram is a measurement of mass. The Americans have it right here (gasp!) -- the pound is a measurement of force. So there is no universal constant to convert between them because the gravitational force in France is different than in Alaska, which in turn is different from that in Ecuador. Sorry, you can't weigh yourself in kilograms. Just so you know, the metric unit of force is the newton, and the English unit of mass is the slug. Celsius is dumb. Kelvin rocks. Enough said. (Unless you want to say 'decidegree.')

Kind of funny that you're complaining about people saying that the pound is not a force, but then you go on to say that hectograms is a weight.

Anyway, if it bothers you that there are so many unnecesarry intervals, who cares, don't use them. If you would rather say 1 decigram instead of 0.1 gram, or vice-versa, go ahead. The thing, however, is that if you did tell me what 1 decigram was, I'd instantly know how many grams it was. Plus, I think the point is that it's easier to use a prefix than scientific notation while speaking (or for that matter writting a scientific paper).

Example: Hey Bob, can you pass me twelve time tens to the negative two grams of salt.

OR Hey Bob, can you pass me twelve centigrams of salt. Your choice.

Imagine reading a scientific study saying time tens to the negative six meters ever other line. Kind of irksome ain't it?

True, the gravitational field isn't the same everywhere, but it is so close, that who cares? Unless you are doing some precision manufacturing or laboratory testing, what do you care whether the constant is 9.8 meters/ second or 9.75 meters per second? It's not that big of a difference unless you are in a ridiculous altitiude or something, and there's no real way of measuring mass, so there's no way of doing the system perfectly.

As for your third point: true, but Celsius is a lot closer to Kelvin than Fahrenheit. It's easier to convert from Celsius to Kelvin than from Fahrenheit to Kelvin.

And I thought the gravitational force on the planet is 9.something meters per second - constant everywhere.

9.8ms^2

I'm sure someone will come along and explain properly and tell me why I'm wrong.

9.8ms^2

I'm sure someone will come along and explain properly and tell me why I'm wrong.

No, that's right. 9.80 m/s^2 is acceleration due to gravity.
But the force due to gravity is *mumble mumble*

I'd like to once again point out the list of terms in the American system.
I can't emphasize it enough.

Celsius is quite simple, really. 0 degrees is the freezing point of water, 100 degrees is the boiling point of water. Makes more sense than 32 degrees and 212 degrees Farenheit, respectively.

And some conversions are pretty close:

1 quart ~ 1 litre
1 yard ~ 1 metre

They aren't exact, but they're great for estimating.

And, even though Canada is supposedly fully metric, we aren't. I don't know how tall I am in centimetres, or how much I weigh in kilograms, but thats because we aren't quite fully through the conversion yet, either, but the next generation will likely be 90% metric.

(and we call 'em 2 by fours here too.)

Resistance is futile.

Assimilate or be annihilated.

I perfer metric system for most things but there are a few measurments that are more conveinient. The pound is a good example it is such a conveinient size that most metric countries have a measurement approximating it at 500 grams. It is almost never half a kilo. No its a metric pound. Feet is a good way to measure a persons height. Under 5 foot short over 6 foot tall, Over 7 foot a freak show.

My 3 problems with the metric system: There are too many useless measurements (or, rather, too many prefixes). How often do people express their height in decimeters? When was the last time you measured your weight in hectograms? If those were thrown out the window, it would make the metric system a bit less intimidating to Americans. Heck, while you're at it, dump prefixes altogether and use scientific notation. Celsius is dumb. Kelvin rocks. Enough said. (Unless you want to say 'decidegree.')

I say that I am "one and eighty"=1,80 meters=18 decimeters. My weight is 52 kilos. No problem with that, then my desk is 7 decimeters and the price of grapes in the store is 9,99 per hektogram, not 0,7 meters and 99,9 per kilogram, why would I count things in units too small for the object?

How could the system be less intimidating if you skipped decimeters and hektos? Don't Americans know these prefixes?

What is so dumb with Celsius? It is the same system for christ's sake!

My 3 problems with the metric system: There are too many useless measurements (or, rather, too many prefixes). How often do people express their height in decimeters? When was the last time you measured your weight in hectograms? If those were thrown out the window, it would make the metric system a bit less intimidating to Americans. Heck, while you're at it, dump prefixes altogether and use scientific notation. The gram is often misinterpreted to be a measure of force. It is NOT. The gram is a measurement of mass. The Americans have it right here (gasp!) -- the pound is a measurement of force. So there is no universal constant to convert between them because the gravitational force in France is different than in Alaska, which in turn is different from that in Ecuador. Sorry, you can't weigh yourself in kilograms. Just so you know, the metric unit of force is the newton, and the English unit of mass is the slug. Celsius is dumb. Kelvin rocks. Enough said. (Unless you want to say 'decidegree.')
boohoo, I can't use prefixes. I'd rather write 0.000000001 m instead of 1 nm.
You don't HAVE to use prefixes you know? But it just easier to see some big or tiny numbers when you do. You use always use the easiest prefix (if you'd work with the metric system enough).

American have a measure ment of force... yap yap
Well guess what? It's useless on the moon. Better to use something you can always use.

Kelvin scale is the Celsius scale with another 0-point. Have you noticed how 1 K equals 1 degree Celsius? Can you blame people for not knowing (the existence of) an absolute lowest temperature when they simply had no means to measure it?

I agree that feet are good for construction. I think I would get annoyed using so many syllables to say measurements.

But, as far as math, science, and most other applications, I agree with metric.

And the talk about degrees being better than radians? Maybe on a layman's level that's true, but high level math has enormous simplifications by using radians. Even calculus requires radians for integration and such.

yes the metric system is better and yes, the only reason that americans dont want to use it is out stubborness (not helped by the fact that it was first promoted by Napoleon who was pretty much a frenchman and thus clearly bad)
Which is ironic as the US drive on the Right. This was brought about by the little fella as well, as he wanted to impose his will on lands he took. Even the Romans used to drive on the left.

Well, excuse us for not keeping our sword arm at the ready to slash at incoming cars :) . I don't see any practical difference in driving on the left or the right.

Well, excuse us for not keeping our sword arm at the ready to slash at incoming cars :) . I don't see any practical difference in driving on the left or the right.
Fastlanes and roundabouts. They're the real boogers when you start driving on the other side

Fastlanes and roundabouts. They're the real boogers when you start driving on the other side

Explain? My mind just sees a flipped transparency. I haven't seen a european roundabout.

I agree that feet are good for construction. I think I would get annoyed using so many syllables to say measurements.

But, as far as math, science, and most other applications, I agree with metric.

And the talk about degrees being better than radians? Maybe on a layman's level that's true, but high level math has enormous simplifications by using radians. Even calculus requires radians for integration and such.

What is it with you guys and construction better with feet?
Do you think nobody construct anything in metric countries?
for ex. what is the size of that room?
well, it is 4,12 m (meters) X 2,82 m = 11,6184 m2

difficult?

My 3 problems with the metric system: There are too many useless measurements (or, rather, too many prefixes). How often do people express their height in decimeters? When was the last time you measured your weight in hectograms? If those were thrown out the window, it would make the metric system a bit less intimidating to Americans. Heck, while you're at it, dump prefixes altogether and use scientific notation. The gram is often misinterpreted to be a measure of force. It is NOT. The gram is a measurement of mass. The Americans have it right here (gasp!) -- the pound is a measurement of force. So there is no universal constant to convert between them because the gravitational force in France is different than in Alaska, which in turn is different from that in Ecuador. Sorry, you can't weigh yourself in kilograms. Just so you know, the metric unit of force is the newton, and the English unit of mass is the slug. Celsius is dumb. Kelvin rocks. Enough said. (Unless you want to say 'decidegree.')

haha nice,
we hardly ever use hectolitres or decimetres for measurments. we use cm for our height, litre on bottles of water and cl on bottles of wine (but i have seen decilitre on a bottle of wine), if we want to go a bit more in detail we use centi or milli. On the roads its km. Very easy. But hardly anyone uses deci or hecto. When weighing we don't ever use decigrams :p always kg in a hospital maybe grams. Its all about habbit.

"The gram is a measurement of mass." yes, so? I think more correct would be: "weight is often misinterpreted to be a measure of force. It is NOT. weight is a measurement of mass."

ehrm celcius is celcius... for all i know one never uses prefixes... and has it got anything to do with the metric system? 0°C is the temperature of melting ice, 100°C is the temperature of boiling water. Kelvin is simply those measurements minus the absolute zero, being -273°C. °F has got something to do with the human body temperature, but how it works...god knows :p

My 3 problems with the metric system: There are too many useless measurements (or, rather, too many prefixes). How often do people express their height in decimeters? When was the last time you measured your weight in hectograms? If those were thrown out the window, it would make the metric system a bit less intimidating to Americans.

I would have said there are an equal number of useless imperial units only you can't easily convert from these units just by their name.

I'm in Australia and was brought up with the metric system, but I've seen some posters explaining the metric system in terms of common objects. It really can't be that hard to educate kids to think in terms of metric and fewer and fewer people will think in imperial.

Explain? My mind just sees a flipped transparency. I haven't seen a european roundabout.
When you drive left you drive clockwise on a roundabout, when you drive right you drive counter-clockwise.

Fastlanes and roundabouts. They're the real boogers when you start driving on the other side

nah mate, its only practice. Or the first time you see a bus coming straight at you because your on the wrong side. After something like that, trust me you don't get confused again

nah mate, its only practice. Or the first time you see a bus coming straight at you because your on the wrong side. After something like that, trust me you don't get confused again
I know :(

nah mate, its only practice. Or the first time you see a bus coming straight at you because your on the wrong side. After something like that, trust me you don't get confused again
Worst thing is driving a motor bike all day on the wrong side in Greece as there were no other vehicles about then coming down a country lane into a town and discovering your error!

Worst thing is driving a motor bike all day on the wrong side in Greece as there were no other vehicles about then coming down a country lane into a town and discovering your error!

There is no 'right' side of the road in Greece - people use both with gay abandon. See also 'Cairo', 'Rome' etc.

Worst thing is driving a motor bike all day on the wrong side in Greece as there were no other vehicles about then coming down a country lane into a town and discovering your error!
did you yell at the other driver?

My basic question is this: Don't you (countries that don't use metric system) think it's about time that we (I'm from America) fully integrated the metric system into our culture? Aren't you tired of converting everything into "foreign" measurements for all aspects of your life? Isn't the fact that a multi-million dollar Mars lander was ruined due to the two systems conflicting with each other (didn't convert measurements) reason enough?


It's an amusing debate. The thing about measurement systems is this: it doesn't matter what you measure in, so long as everyone uses the same system. The key thing is standardisation. yes, base 12 and 20 and the rest may be a bit more cumbersome, since we're used to counting in base 10, but most people grasp it eventually (Americans can work it, so how difficult can it be?) It's like driving on the right or left - it doesn't matter which side you choose, so long as everyone does the same thing!

But when you have one system used by the entirety of the rest of the world (metric) and a system used only by one country (the US - even the UK has given up on Roman measurements, aside from pints and miles, which remain stubborn), then it makes sense for the one holdout country to change to the other system. Only US economic power has prevented that so far, and it'll happen eventually. It happened here in the UK, and it's taken us 30 years, but we're getting there now. It turned out to be not as traumatic as people thought, in the end.

did you yell at the other driver?
No I was too busy pulling the bike out of a ditch and checking a. My wife was ok and b. She wasn't about to kill me!

No I was too busy pulling the bike out of a ditch and checking a. My wife was ok and b. She wasn't about to kill me!
She told you beforehand you were supposed to drive on the other side didn't she? :D

She told you beforehand you were supposed to drive on the other side didn't she? :D
Fortunatly no, or I would still be hearing about it today!

"The gram is a measurement of mass." yes, so? I think more correct would be: "weight is often misinterpreted to be a measure of force. It is NOT. weight is a measurement of mass."


Weight is a measure of force, not of mass. Mass is constant anywhere in the universe (I don't know, perhaps it varies near a black hole, etc., but that is not important) since it is only a measure of the size of an object multiplied by its density. Weight, on the other hand, is a measure of a force, usually gravity, acting upon a mass. Therefore, the weight of an object is not constant, because it depends on the forces acting upon it. This is the reason that a person weighs less on the moon (measured in Newtons) even though their mass (measured in kg) is the same.

I never realised it was such a common misconception until I read this: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Gene_Nygaard/weight.htm

I prefer the English system, which is a very outdated name...

Yes, I am always confused when I hear that. Being British, I find it strange to hear the Imperial referred to as English even though the Americans are about the only country in the world who still use it. There are some throwbacks to it in the UK, notably the road speed limits and distances, but most other stuff is measured in metric.

As an aside, I think the solution to Britain's road problems would be to convert all speed limits from mph to km/h but keep the values the same. For example, the normal speed limit for a built-up area is 30mph. If this was reduced to 30km/h, it would same a lot of lives (and lots of built-up places have reduced the speed limit to 20mph anyway) and it would also save millions of pounds by not having to replace the road signs. It would kill two birds with one stone. The only signs that would have to be changed are distance ones, and there are much fewer of them than speed limit ones.

Personally, I could judge how long an inch or mile is, but that is about it. I don't have a clue about how much a pound weighs or how many yards there are in a mile. For me, metric was the standard at school, and Imperial was only taught so as to understand the old system.

Finally, I think it is unsurprising that metric is so far ahead in the poll (apart from the fact it is far superior). After all, I imagine most people who contribute and vote in this forum are computerphiles (if that is a real word) and I find that the metric system and computerphiles are both quite logical. I think if binary was an option it would have got a number of votes!

You know what I'd like to see converted? Times. Clock times, that is. Rather than this silly idea of saying "I'll see you at 10 o'clock", and you having to ask whether they mean 10 am or 10 pm, you could solve it by saying "I'll meet you at 22:00." You know exactly where you stand.

You know what I'd like to see converted? Times. Clock times, that is. Rather than this silly idea of saying "I'll see you at 10 o'clock", and you having to ask whether they mean 10 am or 10 pm, you could solve it by saying "I'll meet you at 22:00." You know exactly where you stand.

For a majority of situations using your intuition will get you through that am/pm thing. 24 hour clock would make more sense though.

Yea, I think we (the US) needs to finish the conversion over to the metric system. While we're at it we need to standardize our road signs and markings with International Road Signs (http://www.csaa.com/global/articledetail/0,1398,1003000000%257C2667,00.html), also seen here (http://www.discoverfrance.net/Boutique/Travel/Car_Rentals/road_signs.shtml#). Of course, the only thing that would affect me too much would be American football-- I mean, it's measured in yards. You can bet they won't change that. :-/

Yea, I think we (the US) needs to finish the conversion over to the metric system. While we're at it we need to standardize our road signs and markings with International Road Signs (http://www.csaa.com/global/articledetail/0,1398,1003000000%257C2667,00.html), also seen here (http://www.discoverfrance.net/Boutique/Travel/Car_Rentals/road_signs.shtml#). Of course, the only thing that would affect me too much would be American football-- I mean, it's measured in yards. You can bet they won't change that. :-/

Meh, rugby changed from yards to metres, although that meant the field went from 110 yards to 100m so it wasn't too bad, although the 25 yard line became the 22m line.

I thought it was generally understood (at least by us people who know that grams aren't a measure of weight) that when someone says I weigh 80kgs they really mean I weigh 80kgwt (kilograms weight--i.e. the force that is applied by 80 kilograms at the local acceleration due to gravity).

As for Americans using imperial, I don't see the problem. Afterall, we have metric to imperial converters now.

ehrm celcius is celcius... for all i know one never uses prefixes... and has it got anything to do with the metric system? 0°C is the temperature of melting ice, 100°C is the temperature of boiling water. Kelvin is simply those measurements minus the absolute zero, being -273°C. °F has got something to do with the human body temperature, but how it works...god knows :p
If I remember correctly, and I may not be, Fahrenheit was conceived around weather. 0 degrees being around the coldest day of winter, and 100 degrees being the warmest day in summer, at least where Mr. Fahrenheit lived. All the other measurements are just equal spaces in between.

Fahrenheit was concieved around body temperature and the temperature of salted ice, or something like that.

I hope metrics becomes more popular. For many reasons. Lot the least of which is so when a friend tells me that I'm in a buttload of trouble, I can ask if it's a metric buttload. :)

There is no 'right' side of the road in Greece - people use both with gay abandon. See also 'Cairo', 'Rome' etc.

Well, it's not as bad as India, where they don't bother with sides of the road; you just drive anywhere that doesn't have a rickshaw in it.

The US should go metric but I really don't want to. They're just sneaking it in on us. More things are metric now than there used to be. By the time I retire I expect that most things will be metric but nobody will know how it happened.

What is it with you guys and construction better with feet?
Do you think nobody construct anything in metric countries?
for ex. what is the size of that room?
well, it is 4,12 m (meters) X 2,82 m = 11,6184 m2
difficult?

You're working in whole numbers. Try 1.25m * 3.75m faster than 16in*20in.

You're working in whole numbers. Try 1.25m * 3.75m faster than 16in*20in.

Well, inches helps out because you can think about the numbers in fractions, the same is true of meters, and is just as easy.

Plus, I could do something like, 1.25m * 3.75m faster than 16.25 in * 20.45 in. What's the difference? You just picked two random numbers for meters to make it difficult. I can do the same with inches. Hell do pi inches * 3.08123 inches, not very easy is it? The argument is rather pointless.

What is it with you guys and construction better with feet?
Do you think nobody construct anything in metric countries?
for ex. what is the size of that room?
well, it is 4,12 m (meters) X 2,82 m = 11,6184 m2

difficult?

Although in a metric country you wouldn't build like that. You would build a 4 x 3 m room, using 3 or 5 cm thick walls, to a height of 2 or 2.2 m. You need to place a door? Do it 20 cm away from the wall, 80 or 90 cm wide. Heck, with this information you can probably calculate how much mortar to use and how much it will all weight right in your head. (I can't cause I'm no engineer).

That's why many people in the US think metric is too difficult, they convert the current stuff they have to metric and end up with very long decimals. That's not necessarily what would happen. For example, the speed limit wouldnt be 96.5, but 100.

It really is very simple.

You know what I'd like to see converted? Times. Clock times, that is. Rather than this silly idea of saying "I'll see you at 10 o'clock", and you having to ask whether they mean 10 am or 10 pm, you could solve it by saying "I'll meet you at 22:00." You know exactly where you stand.
What I really think needs to be changed is the way the US does their dates. I mean, I can understand why someone would put dmy, or ymd (which I think is the most sensible in this information age), but mdy? That's just crazy and confusing.

Unfortunately, since in the 12th of September, it's been catching on in Australia. I now hear people saying '911' and 'Septermber 11' left right and centre, and it's starting to permiate into other dates.

Mind you considering when people celebrated the 'new millenium', it's no surprise.