NationStates Jolt Archive

Whether it be the SA-80 (which is said to have failed miserably during the Iraq war) or the amazingly successful Steyr AUG (which is adopted by many militaries, including Tunisia, Malaysia, Oman, Morrocco, and Australia), bullpup weapons are some of the most controversial weapons around.

So what do you think? Does it make for good shooting?

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Some models of bullpup rifles you may wish to examine:
IMI Tavor (Israel)
Vektor (South Africa)
NORINCO Type 97 (People's Republc of China)
SAR21 (Singapore)
Steyr AUG (Austria)
SA80 (England)
FAMAS (France)
OC14 (Russia)

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http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ReviewDetail?reviewID=30

An airsoft site, but wit interesting information on the AUG rifle.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as00-e.htm

informative site

Whether it be the SA-80 (which is said to have failed miserably during the Iraq war) or the amazingly successful Steyr AUG (which is adopted by many militaries, including Tunisia, Malaysia, Oman, Morrocco, and Australia), bullpup weapons are some of the most controversial weapons around.

So what do you think? Does it make for good shooting?

*********
Some models of bullpup rifles you may wish to examine:
IMI Tavor (Israel)
Vektor (South Africa)
NORINCO Type 97 (People's Republc of China)
SAR21 (Singapore)
Steyr AUG (Austria)
SA80 (England)
FAMAS (France)
OC14 (Russia)

*******

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ReviewDetail?reviewID=30

An airsoft site, but wit interesting information on the AUG rifle.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as00-e.htm

informative site


I've heard mixed reviews on them. The only personal experience I've had w/ them was on a private tour through the Aberdeen Proving Grounds museum archives where I got to play w/ one. It fired well but I personally found the balance odd. If I remember correctly it was a Steyr.

bullpups are more accurate and steady, plus more versatle.
the problem lies in the fact that left-handed people can't use them, as the cartriges eject out the right side.

the FAMAS fixed that problem by adapting a metal plate that switches the ejection port. This is a permanent solution and cannot be switched back.

for more information, I recommend The World's Great Small Arms by Craig Phillip

I like the looks of them and their firing rates, but I do have issues. Looks like it may be a bit unbalanced which wouldn't be good for hand to hand combat. What is the reliabilty of it under combat conditions (ie not having time to clean esp. in filthy, dank conditions, firing over 5000 rounds without cleaning, survivability of gun when used to physically strike an enemy during hand to hand). Also I don't like the caliber size (and bullet weights). I always thought the M-16 was underpowered. Sure it is a great round, esp when it hits flesh and starts spinning, but I still wish nato used 7.62 as the standard.

I'm spoiled as I will inherit my great-grandpops rifles when my father passes. He has a Browning M1918A (the same kind he used in the Great War), and a Colt 1921 Thompson with the removalable butt, 50 round clip and straight clip. My favorite is the BAR with it's massive .30 (30-06) rounds, truely an awesome and intimidating weapon. Don't worry as these are all legal as purchased well before the machine gun ban.

I'm spoiled as I will inherit my great-grandpops rifles when my father passes. He has a Browning M1918A (the same kind he used in the Great War), and a Colt 1921 Thompson with the removalable butt, 50 round clip and straight clip. My favorite is the BAR with it's massive .30 (30-06) rounds, truely an awesome and intimidating weapon. Don't worry as these are all legal as purchased well before the machine gun ban.

haha dont use them on me man! Im all for love and harmony!

bump

and yes, i do wonder about bullpup reliability and other issues...odd that no one would write about such things, even though bullpups have been around for quite some time...

I would imagine that it would be much more difficult to change mags in a bullpup. I think the only way a reliability issue could arise is if you moved the charging handle farther forward, to improve ergonomics. That would add another easily breakable part, and I still doubt it would be a problem. I don't think a bullpup is inherently less reliable than a standard configuration rifle, especially considering the fact that many of them use the same action as the standard rifle, with only a few minor modifications.

It seems like a good enough gun on Counter-Strike :D

so is the main idea of the bullpup style to get a shorter overall length while maintaining barrel length, that's what i assume from what i understand about them, but that understanding is very limited.

Personally I think that bull-pup vs conventional is a bit irrelevant. There are so many more parts to a rifle that are far more important. I have found that both the M16 and the AUSTEYR (Australian version of Steyr AUG) give me the sh*ts when you've been firing for a while. I prefer the recoil system on the steyr, which is low, and directly rearwards, rather than rearwards and slightly up as in the case with the M16. Both can be fitted with an M203 (Corr, I like those things. They are an orgasmic weapon to shoot. I like the sight that has been designed for the GLA ("Grenade Launcher Attachment") on the Steyr.

Regarding close combat, I really cant see much difference. The lengths are similar. Weights are similar. Couple of hundred grams different, max. I like the foregrip on the steyr for bayonet fighting. Makes it that much easier to drive it into someone's torso.

Reloading is just as easy with a bullpup as with a conventional. It just depends on what you're used to. Although the magazine release catch on the M16 is pretty cool. Preferred the AK-47 though. But then I have a thing for AKs.

All up, don't care. The individual rifle design is far more important than where you stick the magazine.

Although I must say that the SA-80 is theworst sack of sh*t I've ever had the misfortune of working with, in my life...

I don't care, they look cool.

Although I must say that the SA-80 is theworst sack of sh*t I've ever had the misfortune of working with, in my life...

They keep claiming to have fixed it, but I don't think it'll ever work. They should ditch it and get something decent like the G-36.

bullpups are more accurate and steady, plus more versatle.
the problem lies in the fact that left-handed people can't use them, as the cartriges eject out the right side.

the FAMAS fixed that problem by adapting a metal plate that switches the ejection port. This is a permanent solution and cannot be switched back.

for more information, I recommend The World's Great Small Arms by Craig Phillip

The FN P90 (while an SMG) is bullpup, and fully ambidextrous (it ejects the shells down and forwards). Same goes for the FN F2000, IIRC.

The only real pros of bullpup design are maneuverability, due to the shortened overall length of the rifle, and ergonomic concerns from the shifting of the center of mass. On the other hand, the only real downside is the higher chance of unreliability due to the more complicated trigger mechanism.

In today's world of more complicated = better, it seems like the natural next step...