NationStates Jolt Archive

For crissake... I read this board now and again and I read threads like "abortionists must die.." or "gays are satan's lovechildren.."

God.. give me strength..

Is it something about living in the world's economic and military superpower that blinds you to the real problems in the world. That persuades you to follow a George Bush like mentality...

Advisor: Mr President, there's millions dying of AIDs in Africa

Bush: Well let's pray..... (2 hour pause..) I know, let's force them to accept programs promoting abstinence instead of forcing pharmaceutical companies (who contributed to my election campaign) to provide affordable generic drugs... and lets not even consider condoms.. no, that's not God's plan..


Hell.. I mean come on people.. are your heads really that far up your asses... Are you really that enamoured to your own country and religon that you'd let the whole world go to hell just cos some 2000 year old book that's probably been twisted out of all context tells you to do so...


I'm sorry.. but things like sexuality/abortion.. that's up to the individual.. if you think someone is evil because of that, then I'm sorry.. you are so unchristian... did Christ himself not say, 'Do not judge, lest ye be judged yourself..'

Remember that. Plus of course not forgetting Christ's most import message.. "Love one another as I've loved you.."

Now what kind of love was that.. the love that dictates to people, that kills them because they were 'sinners'... hell no.. that was a sacrificial love that subjugated the individual to the world, to die for another - something a lot of people in here have no concept of.. ALTRUISM,look in the dictionary.. learn it.

You've lost sight of the message some of you, you're more evil than those you actually claim are..

I would seriously advise some of the more moronic among you to consider the arguments of Plageus and Augustus.. its interesting.. the idea of pre-destiny/freewill, but lets face facts, you have no right whatsoever to force your will on me.. for if you do, you are a fascist..

I thank God every day that I wasn't born in the US.

End of message.

You can insult me all you like, butmy diginity remains intact and always will and I regret nothing.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I fear this will fall on deaf ears. All the debating in the world can't make the bigots see the error of their ways.

Jesus, save me from your followers!

I hate to say it but there are elements in the US that are making my stomach turn more and more each day so we both shall be flamed here.

Why thank you...

Quote from Andrew Eldritch, lead singer Sister of Mercy:

"Sorry, flower children, but we're a lot more concerned with human and civil rights than the purity of your muesli or the quality of your lawn. First things first, and no apologies. "


Kinda makes sense...

Its not really bigotry.. its ignorance, self importance.. delusion, if you will..

Its thinking you are the entire western world and nothing else matters..

And the sad thing is, its so Moronic.. In the past week I've suffered an American Music Awards programme and Punk'd..

Hello? My IQ is above 90 thank you and I would like something with a bit more bite to it..

I think that's why its such a major thing when a 'good' American TV show comes out!

And probably the reason by 90% of my DVD collection comprises of films in languages I don't understand! :)

Well, the only thing I ask of the rest of the world is that whenever you are referring to the idiocy of the American public, and particularly regarding the morons on these boards, that you please use the qualifying adjective "most". (and thank you, when you do!)

What you say is true to a great degree, and I'll not argue that. There are some of us however, that are not mental neanderthals. We haven't all left the country.

Yet.

Of course, I'm one of those godless liberal gay peaceniks, too. So most of America would write off my opinion as being "too european" anyway.

forcing pharmaceutical companies

The goverment has no right to dictate the price of the products that companies sell abroad, it shouldn't even have the right to do that at home.

Companies only reason of existence is profit, preferable as much as possible, being charitable is not what they're supposed to do. Pharmaceutical companies do not make drugs because they like people so much and can't stand to see them suffering, they do it to make a profit and there is nothing wrong with that.

Lasatania I must say you pinned the tail right on the donkey or as the americans call it right on arse! (sorry bad joke) I agree with you whole heartedly and hope that maybe some people will read this and say hey, this persona has a point. I know as soon as saw that first line I was like hell yeah this person knows what they are talking about. One of my best friends is gay and I am christian, in fact he used to eb as well until bible bashers (those people that preach what they do not practice) so all you freaks out ther that want to be complete and utter evil(lack of a better word) people stop think and then go join the talaban becasue you would all get along well. If you come enar me I'll shoot you with this green crap -> :gundge:

The goverment has no right to dictate the price of the products that companies sell abroad, it shouldn't even have the right to do that at home.

Companies only reason of existence is profit, preferable as much as possible, being charitable is not what they're supposed to do. Pharmaceutical companies do not make drugs because they like people so much and can't stand to see them suffering, they do it to make a profit and there is nothing wrong with that.

That's an argument that is much more difficult to reach a conclusion to than by simply writing two paragraphs. Most importantly, should they profit when it's a governmental institution that finds the drug and then gives the pharmaceutical company the rights to sell the drug for no or little money? In that case, it is taxpayer money that finds the cure, yet the pharmaceutical patents the drug and sells it for 500% profit.

Nothing in this world is as simple as you put it.

As to the original post: It's not just us Americans who ignore that there are starving people, the rest of the world does to. Still, I mostly agree with you.

The goverment has no right to dictate the price of the products that companies sell abroad, it shouldn't even have the right to do that at home.

Companies only reason of existence is profit, preferable as much as possible, being charitable is not what they're supposed to do. Pharmaceutical companies do not make drugs because they like people so much and can't stand to see them suffering, they do it to make a profit and there is nothing wrong with that.

Um dude, before you sprout off about Big Pharma, do a wee bit of research:
First: Almost all drugs use government funds to be created. Research and testing has been mainly carried out by National Institutes of Health rather then the Pharmaceuticals, who step in at the tail end (phase III trials). In fact government research in the US and outside the US counted for 85% of drug discovery.
Second: Big Pharma has been very good at getting a TON of positive legislation passed that extend their patents, ease their way to getting more me too drugs on the market and other manipulations.
Third: Pharma claims to have to charge high prices because of R&D but they only spend 31 Billion on it compared to 67 Billion on Marketing and Advertising.

Free market would be good IF they actually did the free market system but this industry is VERY subsidized and has been for years.

Check out The Truth About the Drug Companies by Marcia Angell, and The $800 Million Dollar Pill by Merrill Goozner

Oh kay.. .let's not be pedantic about this.. this isn't about pharma... I was just using it as an exaggerated example..

Believe it or not I was once for some strange reason a born again Christian... for about a year... then one day during the time of the Balkans conflict they (the church I belonged to) asked us to give money to help send missionaries to Africa... that was it for me, I left..
Why?

Because of the blatant disregard for the barbarism happening on our doorstep, for the fact that the people suffering weren't 'saved' and therefore in their eyes not in need of our help... despite the fact that no-one was helping the Bosnians.. I've read a lot about what happened in Bosnia, talked to people from the country...

My churches actions were totally unchristian..

This is more about selflessness and altruism, qualities that appear to have vanished from the agenda of many people...



I don't care what or who you are... if you're hit by a car, I will come help you.. If I see you being attacked by someone, I will intervene..

The goverment has no right to dictate the price of the products that companies sell abroad, it shouldn't even have the right to do that at home.

Companies only reason of existence is profit, preferable as much as possible, being charitable is not what they're supposed to do.
If a company is causing harm to the public, I think a government has every right to intervene. Government is supposed to protect the people, right? That's why we don't just allow cocaine dealers to go about their business like good old normal businessmen.

ok , put simply , the reason why we shouldn`t sell drugs cheaper , is if we do , people will not research new ones . do you understand ? plus there not white people with aids in africa are they ?

It is always a beautiful sight, when a player discovers the General Forum.

I couldn't agree more, Lasatania.
America is overrun with people who hate everybody that doesn't share their views.
And about the church and Balkans thing...

That's why you convert to Judiasm. (I recommend reform or conservative, it's an "easy" religion)

-Jake

ok , put simply , the reason why we shouldn`t sell drugs cheaper , is if we do , people will not research new ones . do you understand ? plus there not white people with aids in africa are they ?

'They're' perhaps?

I almost hope not, since that would just make that comment absolutely sickening... we shouldn't help non-whites with AIDs?

I can only hope you meant something else.

ok , put simply , the reason why we shouldn`t sell drugs cheaper , is if we do , people will not research new ones . do you understand ? plus there not white people with aids in africa are they ?
Huh what an idi... looks at name oh lol

Of course, I'm one of those godless liberal gay peaceniks, too. So most of America would write off my opinion as being "too european" anyway.

No, most Americans would write off your opinion because it's just as mindless and self-centered as the opinions of people like the Aryan Nations and "Christian" fundmentalism ( which is an oxymoron if ever I heard one! ).

For crissake... I read this board now and again and I read threads like "abortionists must die.." or "gays are satan's lovechildren.."

<sigh> Of course you're going to read stuff like that. THere are always going to be nutjobs out there. I'm pretty confident, though, that they are the extreme minority.

And I'm not understanding your problem with Bush's stance on AIDS. He's sent millions of dollars to Africa to fight it.
And the programs being payed for do not just promote abstinence. Some does, and there's nothing wrong with that, but most does go towards condoms and the like. Are you saying there should be nothing said about abstinance? We should just give out condoms and say, "These will protect you 100%"?

And about "not judging". That's just ridiculous. It's the right and duty of every rational human being to judge. You judge what food to eat. You judge which leaders to elect. You judge what is morally right and wrong. Should we just say all opinions and actions are equal? Should we just not punish criminals because it's not right for us to judge?

I couldn't agree more, Lasatania.
America is overrun with people who hate everybody that doesn't share their views.
And about the church and Balkans thing...

That's why you convert to Judiasm. (I recommend reform or conservative, it's an "easy" religion)

-Jake

yes but it requires a large donation if your male (or small , i was just speaking for myself with large ;))

For crissake... I read this board now and again and I read threads like "abortionists must die.." or "gays are satan's lovechildren.."

I read them too, and don't agree with them anymore than you do.

Is it something about living in the world's economic and military superpower that blinds you to the real problems in the world. That persuades you to follow a George Bush like mentality...

Quite the contrary, the US contributes more money to overseas aid programs than the GDP of many medium-sized countries. We have bailed out Europe twice in the last 80 years, when they went to war over things like anarchy, the assassination of Archdukes, and "living room."

Bush: Well let's pray..... (2 hour pause..) I know, let's force them to accept programs promoting abstinence instead of forcing pharmaceutical companies (who contributed to my election campaign) to provide affordable generic drugs... and lets not even consider condoms.. no, that's not God's plan..

Sigh. If you believe this is what the current Administration advocates, or how it behaves, you do yourself a great disservice. Even a mind which seems to be as sharp as yours must have accurate information to make informed opinions and decisions.

Hell.. I mean come on people.. are your heads really that far up your asses... Are you really that enamoured to your own country and religon that you'd let the whole world go to hell just cos some 2000 year old book that's probably been twisted out of all context tells you to do so...

When did the United States of America ever "let the whole world go to hell?" In actuality, we keep bailing other nations and people out. And the only land we have ever "occupied" was enough to bury the young men and women who fought and died for your ungrateful butts!

Plus of course not forgetting Christ's most import message.. "Love one another as I've loved you.." Now what kind of love was that.. the love that dictates to people, that kills them because they were 'sinners'... hell no.. that was a sacrificial love that subjugated the individual to the world, to die for another - something a lot of people in here have no concept of.. ALTRUISM,look in the dictionary.. learn it.

So let me see if I've got this straight ... the thousands and thousands of young American men and women who died because Europe, Asia, and the Middle East couldn't keep from slaughtering each other WASN'T a "sacrificial love?" What's wrong with this picture?

I would seriously advise some of the more moronic among you to consider the arguments of Plageus and Augustus.. its interesting.. the idea of pre-destiny/freewill, but lets face facts, you have no right whatsoever to force your will on me.. for if you do, you are a fascist..

When, pray tell, has the United States EVER "forced" its will on you ... not someone else ... you spoke in the first person.

I thank God every day that I wasn't born in the US.

I thank God for that too.

You can insult me all you like, butmy diginity remains intact and always will and I regret nothing.

If you consider anything I said above to be an "insult," then you are living in a fool's paradise and nothing ANYone can say or do will alter your prejudices. I feel sorry for you and others like you, who can't see beyond their own selfish little bubble. If your country were invaded or desperately needed help, to whom would you turn? I'm taking 100 to 1 odds it would be dear old Uncle Sam ( the US ). You're sick and tired of listening to Americans preach? Well, I'm sick and tired of listening to ungrateful Europeans ( France is a good example ) indulge themselves in "holier than thou" attacks on the very nation to which they have repeatedly turned when they needed help. It's called "having no shame."

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you Lasatania. I think people should stop tyring to force they're opinions on everyone else either on a political level or on forum boards like this!

For crissake... I read this board now and again and I read threads like "abortionists must die.." or "gays are satan's lovechildren.."

God.. give me strength..

Is it something about living in the world's economic and military superpower that blinds you to the real problems in the world. That persuades you to follow a George Bush like mentality...

Advisor: Mr President, there's millions dying of AIDs in Africa

Bush: Well let's pray..... (2 hour pause..) I know, let's force them to accept programs promoting abstinence instead of forcing pharmaceutical companies (who contributed to my election campaign) to provide affordable generic drugs... and lets not even consider condoms.. no, that's not God's plan..


Hell.. I mean come on people.. are your heads really that far up your asses... Are you really that enamoured to your own country and religon that you'd let the whole world go to hell just cos some 2000 year old book that's probably been twisted out of all context tells you to do so...


I'm sorry.. but things like sexuality/abortion.. that's up to the individual.. if you think someone is evil because of that, then I'm sorry.. you are so unchristian... did Christ himself not say, 'Do not judge, lest ye be judged yourself..'

Remember that. Plus of course not forgetting Christ's most import message.. "Love one another as I've loved you.."

Now what kind of love was that.. the love that dictates to people, that kills them because they were 'sinners'... hell no.. that was a sacrificial love that subjugated the individual to the world, to die for another - something a lot of people in here have no concept of.. ALTRUISM,look in the dictionary.. learn it.

You've lost sight of the message some of you, you're more evil than those you actually claim are..

I would seriously advise some of the more moronic among you to consider the arguments of Plageus and Augustus.. its interesting.. the idea of pre-destiny/freewill, but lets face facts, you have no right whatsoever to force your will on me.. for if you do, you are a fascist..

I thank God every day that I wasn't born in the US.

End of message.

You can insult me all you like, butmy diginity remains intact and always will and I regret nothing.

President Bush has given more money to Africa than any other US president in recent history. If you don't believe this look to the most recent Bono interview. Bono talks at length about previous presidents shying off Africa.
Bush has also worked on negotiations with Sudan. This was something Clinton and Bush Sr. never really got around to doing. Carter this last tuesday praised Bush for the work he has already done in Sudan.

As far as abortion goes the pro-choice movement is based on ignorance. Anyone who can stand up and believe that a fetus is not human life is pretty stupid. When you look at the intellectual community (or the few that actually want to defend their barbaric stances) you find arguments like "why should we protect human life."- Peter Singer. Well by that same argument everyone on the right can bomb the hell out of however many people they please. Why should anyone protect human life. Statements like these perpetuated by pro-choice intellectuals show just how morally bankrupt the other side is. Some of Singer's colleagues like Capsulet argue that birth bears (pardon the pun) no bright line. They argue babies should and can be killed after birth-- something even a heartless abortion clinin worker would vomit at. Barak Obama poster child of "the moderate" choice is hardly moderate. Look to his position on abortion he believes exactly what Capsulet believes. Babies will be delivered but brutally hacked to death after delivery.

I admire Singer for his stance against capital punishment (apparently some forms of human life should be protected, others should be exploited.)

Believe what you want about your admirable stance on abortion. In the span of time it has been legalized 44 million people have died in our country. The US has perpetuated though UNESCO terrible crimes of forced abortions on cultures that have the moral rectitude to say no. The resent that spawns from this clash of culture spawns terrorism.

Altruism can and will be mis-used read Randian philosophy. Albeit some of her theories are hazy but anti-abortion is altruistic... according to her so apparently you don't know what Altruism is. I would also point to the failures of Utilitarianism (one of the only vehicles for altruism.) In trying to 'selflessly' promote the greater good the Soviet Union enslaved a third of their population to slave labor. In promoting the greater good they put political dissidents in prison.

I read them too, and don't agree with them anymore than you do.



Quite the contrary, the US contributes more money to overseas aid programs than the GDP of many medium-sized countries. We have bailed out Europe twice in the last 80 years, when they went to war over things like anarchy, the assassination of Archdukes, and "living room."



Sigh. If you believe this is what the current Administration advocates, or how it behaves, you do yourself a great disservice. Even a mind which seems to be as sharp as yours must have accurate information to make informed opinions and decisions.



When did the United States of America ever "let the whole world go to hell?" In actuality, we keep bailing other nations and people out. And the only land we have ever "occupied" was enough to bury the young men and women who fought and died for your ungrateful butts!



So let me see if I've got this straight ... the thousands and thousands of young American men and women who died because Europe, Asia, and the Middle East couldn't keep from slaughtering each other WASN'T a "sacrificial love?" What's wrong with this picture?



When, pray tell, has the United States EVER "forced" its will on you ... not someone else ... you spoke in the first person.



I thank God for that too.



If you consider anything I said above to be an "insult," then you are living in a fool's paradise and nothing ANYone can say or do will alter your prejudices. I feel sorry for you and others like you, who can't see beyond their own selfish little bubble. If your country were invaded or desperately needed help, to whom would you turn? I'm taking 100 to 1 odds it would be dear old Uncle Sam ( the US ). You're sick and tired of listening to Americans preach? Well, I'm sick and tired of listening to ungrateful Europeans ( France is a good example ) indulge themselves in "holier than thou" attacks on the very nation to which they have repeatedly turned when they needed help. It's called "having no shame."

AHAHAHAH well said... But I think you give this kid too much credit in some parts. It sounds like he doesen't look at any policy whatsoever he just listens to the glow of CNN.

()*() <--- = racist
|| ||

before i address the main argument of the thread, let me comment on 2 of the minor points

1) africa is so poor and it is in such a mess that drug companies could give away their products and it still wouldnt do much to help those suffering with aids. when a country's health care budget is under $10 per person per year (and some countries are under $2) the delivery system for aids drugs pushes the costs too high to reach enough people to make a dent in the problem. too many countries still try to deny the problem, too many countries have too little communications infrastructure to get the information tothe masses as to how to avoid aids (this is what leads to the horrific notion that sex with a virgin CURES aids, leading to the rape of small children) too many countries are so corrupt that the money donated doesnt end up going for the aids problem.

so, while drug companies need to have (and i believe most DO have) programs for greatly reduced prices for drugs to africa, many other things need to be done if it is going to do any good. and its not all the US, if you dont like our policy of "abstinence, no condoms, no abortion" (and who can disagree with you?) then get your OWN countries to send money in ways that fit your more enlightened ideas.

2) when your church ignored bosnia, did someone SUGGEST that they needed to be helping out there? were there systems already in place for helping out there? did someone really SAY that they were not worth helping or are you inferring that as their reason? and considering how violent bosnia was did y'all really have people willing to get shot while bringing supplies into the area? snipers were killing people at funeral for gods sake, they wouldnt have had a problem with killing missionaries.

OK ive read your post through several times.

i certainly agree with you about the chrisitans needing to focus on JESUS instead of hate. jesus was about love, radical love. love that is so hard to practice that if one would truly want to be christian it would have to be a major focus of ones life in order to ever get close to his ideals. love that too many christians have forgotten about.

the only thing you said that i didnt like was "I thank God every day that I wasn't born in the US."

you look at the surface. we are a very complicated country. to judge us by our current president is as bad as judging us by the boys who post those "international zionist conspiracy" threads. we are more than the sum of our worst parts. (as is every country)

so we dont do everything the way you would if you were world dictator. who does? what country was it who FINALLY forced the issue on stopping the genocide in bosnia? it wasnt YOURS. all of europe was fine with letting them destroy each other. we are still there with no end in sight.

what country went into somalia to stop genocide and came out with a huge black eye? what country was it who put together a coalition to kick iraq out of kuwait?

no, we dont have the resources to "fix" the whole world. we can't go into every country with problems. its just not possible.

yes we are in iraq now in some kind of neo-con nightmare of world domination. yes 9/11 seems to have unbalanced us in a very bad way that makes us fear terrorism out of all proportion to its power. yes we have a president who has no understanding of how to get along with our friends let alone how to negotiate with our enemies.

some day (oh please let it be in january) george bush will be gone and we will get back to a more well balanced view of the world. will you like us THEN? or will our taste in tv still be too much for you?

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you Lasatania. I think people should stop tyring to force they're opinions on everyone else either on a political level or on forum boards like this!

The word you're looking for is "their," which is the possessive. "They're" is a contraction of "they are," which would make your sentance read "I think people should stop trying to force they are opinions on everyone else."

I happen to agree with your basic premise. However, you must not have read the post by Lasatania all the way through. Most of it had nothing to do with people not forcing their opinions on anyone else. Anyway, since this is an open discussion group, freedom of speech dictates that anyone can express their opinions about whatever they choose, no matter how distorted or insane. This should make you happy, not upset. :)

OK ive read your post through several times.

i certainly agree with you about the chrisitans needing to focus on JESUS instead of hate. jesus was about love, radical love. love that is so hard to practice that if one would truly want to be christian it would have to be a major focus of ones life in order to ever get close to his ideals. love that too many christians have forgotten about.

the only thing you said that i didnt like was "I thank God every day that I wasn't born in the US."

you look at the surface. we are a very complicated country. to judge us by our current president is as bad as judging us by the boys who post those "international zionist conspiracy" threads. we are more than the sum of our worst parts. (as is every country)

so we dont do everything the way you would if you were world dictator. who does? what country was it who FINALLY forced the issue on stopping the genocide in bosnia? it wasnt YOURS. all of europe was fine with letting them destroy each other. we are still there with no end in sight.

what country went into somalia to stop genocide and came out with a huge black eye? what country was it who put together a coalition to kick iraq out of kuwait?

no, we dont have the resources to "fix" the whole world. we can't go into every country with problems. its just not possible.

yes we are in iraq now in some kind of neo-con nightmare of world domination. yes 9/11 seems to have unbalanced us in a very bad way that makes us fear terrorism out of all proportion to its power. yes we have a president who has no understanding of how to get along with our friends let alone how to negotiate with our enemies.

some day (oh please let it be in january) george bush will be gone and we will get back to a more well balanced view of the world. will you like us THEN? or will our taste in tv still be too much for you?

Not exactly what I would call an overwhelming endorsement of our Country. What is it about GWB that you folks seem to despise so much? Is it his somewhat rigid stance? Is it his tendency to stumble over words on occasion? Is it the fact that he's from the Western US? Is it the fact that he's a "practicing Christian?" Is it a reliance on biased news sources? What??

I have to admit that I'm no rabid fan of GWB's, but he's certainly far, far easier to live with than the amoral opportunist Kerry! This guy would sell his own mother for another vote! Perhaps I'm the only one on this board who recognizes that Kerry is a filthy-rich, Eastern US, far-left snob totally without principles. If so, I'll take my leave of you all and let you stew in your own juices.

Sometimes I think it might be best if Kerry actually was elected Commander In Chief. At least it would mean the death-knell of liberalism ( and perhaps even of the Democrat Party! ) in America, once people finally realized just how damned dangerous this unprincipled baffoon really is.

Not exactly what I would call an overwhelming endorsement of our Country. What is it about GWB that you folks seem to despise so much? Is it his somewhat rigid stance? Is it his tendency to stumble over words on occasion? Is it the fact that he's from the Western US? Is it the fact that he's a "practicing Christian?" Is it a reliance on biased news sources? What??

I have to admit that I'm no rabid fan of GWB's, but he's certainly far, far easier to live with than the amoral opportunist Kerry! This guy would sell his own mother for another vote! Perhaps I'm the only one on this board who recognizes that Kerry is a filthy-rich, Eastern US, far-left snob totally without principles. If so, I'll take my leave of you all and let you stew in your own juices.

Sometimes I think it might be best if Kerry actually was elected Commander In Chief. At least it would mean the death-knell of liberalism ( and perhaps even of the Democrat Party! ) in America, once people finally realized just how damned dangerous this unprincipled baffoon really is.

i will never vote for a man who lied to get us into a war. to have more than 1000 american soldier die for his lies is more than i can accept and i really dont understand how anyone can support him now.

i will never vote for a man who lied to get us into a war. to have more than 1000 american soldier die for his lies is more than i can accept and i really dont understand how anyone can support him now.

What lies?

What lies?
He meant how he mislead America into a war without sound principle like Iraq.
And how he continues not to have a problem with misleading us further by still saying Saddam has them.
How Cheney has said recently that we still haven't caught Saddam (where was he?). Granted, he confused Osama and Saddam in that speech but still dude. That is a big difference.

My churches actions were totally unchristian..Nope , they were not, they simple felt that the Africans were in deeper need than the bosnians, Its a matter of opinion...andI agree with your Church,

But like I said you are free to Join a church that helps more the Bosnians, or even to stay and send your money directly to the Bosnian red Cressent.

Its stupid to choose a religion based on their charities...when you can send your money directly to whoever you want to.

thank you, bastard

perhaps you, Eutrusca, like our president dont understand what a lie IS

it is a lie when you say an out and out untruth
its a lie when you have someone else say the lie for you (colin powell at the UN)
its a lie when you actively deceive
its a lie when you dont correct the public's misconception. (my mother in law still believes that iraq is responsible for 9/11)

bush bet our soldiers lives on the existance of WMD. he lost that bet. he needs to pay for that. i will not vote for a man with such low regard for the truth and for the lives of our military.

Not exactly what I would call an overwhelming endorsement of our Country. What is it about GWB that you folks seem to despise so much? Is it his somewhat rigid stance? Is it his tendency to stumble over words on occasion? Is it the fact that he's from the Western US? Is it the fact that he's a "practicing Christian?" Is it a reliance on biased news sources? What??

I have to admit that I'm no rabid fan of GWB's, but he's certainly far, far easier to live with than the amoral opportunist Kerry! This guy would sell his own mother for another vote! Perhaps I'm the only one on this board who recognizes that Kerry is a filthy-rich, Eastern US, far-left snob totally without principles. If so, I'll take my leave of you all and let you stew in your own juices.

Sometimes I think it might be best if Kerry actually was elected Commander In Chief. At least it would mean the death-knell of liberalism ( and perhaps even of the Democrat Party! ) in America, once people finally realized just how damned dangerous this unprincipled baffoon really is.

First post and it's in one of these damn things. Wow.

Aside from my newbie status on this board, I felt I had to reply to this post. I must admit that many of those things you spoke of stroke my hatred for the big ol' Dubya. His reliance on biased new sources when he is the most powerful man in the world and can kill THOUSANDS of lives, both foriegn and US, because he did not research everything he should have.

His lack of diplomacy and understanding that even though the US is still the most powerful country in the world, we are not an island. The world revolves around comprimise and Dubya is an idiot if he cannot see that.

The fact he seems rely on a book only 45% of Americans read or believe in for advice in all things and he hasn't even read the damned thing. This is only a minor point, as some of our good presidents were very devout religious men. But they were also intelligent and not this black/white BS Georgie seems to be.

Onto some things you DIDN'T mention. He lied about our going to war. If you believe that Saddam had WMD, then tell me where they are. And shut up about SYRIA! That is just Georgie trying to agitate for the next war. And anyway, so what? Muslims look at us with the same trepidation we looked at Saddam. Doesn't mean THEY should come in here and take all OUR prescious nukes, right?

He lies about tax cuts, giving the first set mainly to the top 20% (Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, http://www.cbpp.org/) and the second to teh top 5% or earners. Whereas regular Joes and Janes such as you or I get $100's of dollars, the fat and wealthy get $1000's or sometimes millions.

He is pretty much in the pocket of his friends, giving Haliburton a NO BID CONTRACT while Cheney was still Vice, netting him millions in profit while our boys overseas die.

He tortures prisoners of war, breaking the Geneva conventions that we are SWORN to uphold. Cheney's leaked memo describing how he didn't think it was good enough to make them stand 6 hours, as he stands 8-10 every day (just not in the nude surrounded by hostile guards and vicious attack dogs at three in the morning).

He ignores his own intelligence community when they TELL him that war with Iraq at BEST would turn into another Veitnam and at WORST could spark an uprising at home.

In late July, a report prepared for the President by his National
Intelligence Counsel spelled out "a dark assessment of prospects for
Iraq."[1 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30F17FB34540C758DDDA00894DC404482)] According to the New York Times, "the estimate outlines three
possibilities for Iraq through the end of 2005, with the worst case being
developments that could lead to civil war, the officials said. The most
favorable outcome described is an Iraq whose stability would remain
tenuous in political, economic and security terms."[2 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30F17FB34540C758DDDA00894DC404482)] But that didn't stop
Bush and other members of the administration from telling the American
people that Iraq was headed in the right direction.

Pretty much, his gunboat diplomacy and idiotic use of american military power has created a rift in America as big if not bigger then the one that caused so much discord in teh 60's and 70's. He has lied and cheated the american peolpe, he has forced his veiws on others, he has ignored all advice and sensabilities. He is, in essence, a gangster president and I would see him removed at the earliest possible moment.

thank you, bastard

perhaps you, Eutrusca, like our president dont understand what a lie IS

it is a lie when you say an out and out untruth
its a lie when you have someone else say the lie for you (colin powell at the UN)
its a lie when you actively deceive
its a lie when you dont correct the public's misconception. (my mother in law still believes that iraq is responsible for 9/11)

bush bet our soldiers lives on the existance of WMD. he lost that bet. he needs to pay for that. i will not vote for a man with such low regard for the truth and for the lives of our military.

Then you're obviously not going to vote for Kerry either. He not only originally supported the invastion of Iraq, he also believed the intelligence available at the time concerning the Weapons of Mass Destruction Saddam had, just like President Bush. Guess you'll be sitting this one out, eh? :)

His lack of diplomacy and understanding that even though the US is still the most powerful country in the world, we are not an island. The world revolves around comprimise and Dubya is an idiot if he cannot see that.

Onto some things you DIDN'T mention. He lied about our going to war. If you believe that Saddam had WMD, then tell me where they are. And shut up about SYRIA! That is just Georgie trying to agitate for the next war. And anyway, so what? Muslims look at us with the same trepidation we looked at Saddam. Doesn't mean THEY should come in here and take all OUR prescious nukes, right?

He lies about tax cuts, giving the first set mainly to the top 20% (Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, http://www.cbpp.org/) and the second to teh top 5% or earners. Whereas regular Joes and Janes such as you or I get $100's of dollars, the fat and wealthy get $1000's or sometimes millions.

He tortures prisoners of war, breaking the Geneva conventions that we are SWORN to uphold. Cheney's leaked memo describing how he didn't think it was good enough to make them stand 6 hours, as he stands 8-10 every day (just not in the nude surrounded by hostile guards and vicious attack dogs at three in the morning).

He ignores his own intelligence community when they TELL him that war with Iraq at BEST would turn into another Veitnam and at WORST could spark an uprising at home.

Pretty much, his gunboat diplomacy and idiotic use of american military power has created a rift in America as big if not bigger then the one that caused so much discord in teh 60's and 70's. He has lied and cheated the american peolpe, he has forced his veiws on others, he has ignored all advice and sensabilities. He is, in essence, a gangster president and I would see him removed at the earliest possible moment.

You really should read something other than left-wing propaganda. Your beliefs are so distorted that I hardly know where to begin!

I will say this ... your comparison of what happened at Abu Gharib ( sp? ) prison with terrorism pretty much reveals your prejudices. It really would be interesting to know where you get your propaganda.

You really should get out more often.

Then you're obviously not going to vote for Kerry either. He not only originally supported the invastion of Iraq, he also believed the intelligence available at the time concerning the Weapons of Mass Destruction Saddam had, just like President Bush. Guess you'll be sitting this one out, eh? :)
oh yeah its so the same thing
hey if its OK with you to vote for a man who lied to get us into war, thats your business
im just saying that i wont vote for a man like that.

oh yeah its so the same thing
hey if its OK with you to vote for a man who lied to get us into war, thats your business
im just saying that i wont vote for a man like that.

You're confusing "judgement call" with "lie," not a very wise thing to do.

Lasatania, i agree with you!

but let us not generalise here- it is very true that the USA has a huge propotion of the population who are intoerant religiouse fanatics.- but that dosnt mean to say all americans are like that.. i would be offended by that post if i was american and not a fanaticial moron!

i do not whole-heartedly disagree with you and your opinions, You blame the general public and their devotion to the church... I blame the government(s) and the thousands of american prostestant churches (who have never really had any other religions near by, like large european catholic, protestant, jewish and islamic organisations, to go against their opinions and balance their views)

gee, eu, what part of Minalkra's post was propaganda?

seems to me everything he quoted came from the newspaper, at least thats the propaganda source *I* got all those things from.

now i feel guilty that i have hijacked Lasatania's thread. maybe we should go back to how he thanks god he's not american

I agree with you Lasatania but what makes me sick
is people calling Bush an evil dictador, when
they dont know what a real evil dictador is.

Loose or win Bush will be gone after 2008,
Thats not an evil dictador, an evil dictador
for exsample is President dictador Fidel Castro for life
thats a dictador evil or not.

Is anyone willing to back me up on that statement?

A real evil dictador is Saddam Hussein who
gassed people from his own nation,
had his own family relatives murdered.

Is anyone willing to back me up on that statement?

yes i will, heck

the Great thing about america is that even when we violently disagree over politics, there is always a peaceful transition of power from one administration to another. we get a voice in who leads our country and the president almost always has the support of a majority of voters.

may castro die peacefully in his sleep some time soon. the cuban people have suffered long enough.

at least 3 good things have come out of the iraq war. the capture of saddam and the deaths of his 2 vile sons. 3 people the iraqi people no longer have to fear.

10 s of thousands of Cubans each year
leave that island paradise of Cuba
on anything that floats like boats,
rafts, inner tubes, a floating truck,
across 90 miles of shark infested waters
when Castro allows his people,
says to his people anyone
that ones to leave can
isnt he responsible for that.

would someone like to back me up on that statement.

dictatorship is just another form of government.. usually the word "evil" always comes before the word "dictator", i don't like that.

saddam is claimed to be an "evil" dictator but it depends on which way you look at it.

and no bush most certainly isnt an "evil" dictator, whover said that is dumb- he's just a selfish uncaring moron.. lol

**

oh i don't know alot about cuba.. but how are the cuban people suffering? they have one of the best heathcare systems in the world, and their evil dictator has not commited any atroceties of slaughtered his own people. the most i know about cuba is that it was america-controlled and the people of cuba hated that so much that they had a revolution with ché and castro at the head to "free" the people..

and thats another word "freedom" depends how you look at it..

oh thats all i really know about cuba exept its famouse cigars..enlighten me! :)

If a company is causing harm to the public, I think a government has every right to intervene. Government is supposed to protect the people, right? That's why we don't just allow cocaine dealers to go about their business like good old normal businessmen.


1# I revoke my statement, I should've done more research, I'm saying this in this post and im directing it to everyone who quoted me because I'm to lazy to awnser you all seperately.

2# @Siljhouettes

Selling drugs at a high price is not harming the public, ofcourse they will die if they do not get the drugs, but it's not the pharmaceutical company it's fault that the sick person hasn't got enough cash.(yes, very black and white)

On the government there now,
how would some of you like to live
in a nation where
1. You have free education for you
and your children.
2. You have free medical care for you
and your children.
3. where you and your children do
cumpulsory voluntary work.
4. Where that voluntary work
can help pay for that free education
and free medical care.
5. Where you are not allowed
to have a home computer.
6. where you are not allowed
to have cable, or satelite tvs.
7. If I dissagree with the government
I would be watched over by neighboorhood
commitees for the defense of the revolution.
8. I could go on and on but the list is to long.
Is someone willing to back me up
on any of these statements.
I could go on and on but
this is not the thread for this statement.

I'm an american, I am pro-rights, and I am an atheist. Are you telling ME that I am blindly following Bush's "plan"? If so, I will throw piping hot gravy on your face.

Then you're obviously not going to vote for Kerry either. He not only originally supported the invastion of Iraq, he also believed the intelligence available at the time concerning the Weapons of Mass Destruction Saddam had, just like President Bush. Guess you'll be sitting this one out, eh? :)
let's see here.

not vote for a man whose opinion changed based on new information?
Am I missing something big here?

-Jake

La tristesse durera.

[quote]I'm sorry.. but things like sexuality/abortion.. that's up to the individual..

So things like whether I should give my time and money to a group of people with whom I have no normal dealings are . . . up to the government? Why is it the government's duty to make sure that folks abroad, over which the government has no jurisdiction, are taken care of by me, but it is not the government's duty to promote moral conduct at home?

if you think someone is evil because of that, then I'm sorry.. you are so unchristian... did Christ himself not say, 'Do not judge, lest ye be judged yourself..'

"For with what judgment you judge, ye shall be judged, and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again." It's a condemnation of hypocritical judgement, no a blanket condemnation of all judgement. Jesus goes on in the very same passage to explain that we should examine ourselves first and get rid of the plank in our own eye, so that we can see clearly IN ORDER TO remove the speck in our brother's eye.

Remember that. Plus of course not forgetting Christ's most import message.. "Love one another as I've loved you.."

Now what kind of love was that.. the love that dictates to people, that kills them because they were 'sinners'... hell no.. that was a sacrificial love that subjugated the individual to the world, to die for another - something a lot of people in here have no concept of.. ALTRUISM,look in the dictionary.. learn it.

Yes, Jesus died for sinners, all the while warning them of the horrors of hell and telling them that we ought not to fear those who can only kill the body, but rather the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Only the One who punishes evil saves from it, and those who are not turned to Him will not be saved. Not very P.C., in His day or in our own.

I would seriously advise some of the more moronic among you to consider the arguments of Plageus and Augustus.. its interesting.. the idea of pre-destiny/freewill, but lets face facts, you have no right whatsoever to force your will on me.. for if you do, you are a fascist..

I will that murder remain illegal.

Well, I just thought I'd finally get round to kind of putting a reply up on here... apologies for the delay but I've been loaded with the cold for three weeks..


OK, there are obviously some quite interesting points being made and it will be a tad difficult to go through them all in one post..

However,

regarding the AIDS/drugs thing.. that was an analogy of western (note the use of western, not just US) treatment of third world countries, which itself is a symptom of globalisation... but that's a huge arguement in its own right..

I think overall, my whole point was, and probably still is.. is that a lot of people in here are way too self righteous and feel they have a god given right to force opinions down people's throats... Which, in my opinion, is not a good thing... I honestly, however, feel that it tends to be Americans that are the worst for this.. and why.. personally, I reckon a lot of it is to do with the insular nature of American society.. given that America fluctuates between spells of isolationism and participation in the world stage.. it just appears the peaks and troughs of this are becoming far more extreme.. Also, the fact of the matter is, in Europe we have a far older and more outlooking media, which given what I have read of some American journalists is a very good thing..

Example: A journalist in the Washington Times decries the failure of Germans to see the evil of Saddam Hussein.. said journalist declares Hussein to be a worse threat than Hitler..

I BEG YOUR PARDON... Sadam Hussein may well have killed a couple of hundred thousand of his people.. Hitler was responsible both directly and indirectly for at least 40M+ deaths.. Is this really a credible comparison.. I don't think so..

As for America forcing its will on others... Granada, Panama.. Cuba, Nicaragua, ??? VENEZEULA?!?!? CHILE?!?!? Any country that doesn't stick to the program pretty much finds itself a target for 'enforced change'.. and let's face it, it still goes on..

Regarding the religious thing, I reckon its largely because of the disproportionate influence of the church in politics right now in America.. (god is on our side..).. personally I think the French have the right idea, a totally secular state.. coming from a part of Scotland where I have seen the evils of sectarian hate between catholic and protestant (think Northern Ireland without the bombs but still with killings etc..) I can see the need to remove religion from schools and all other arms of government..


Anyway, I'm hard at work so I better return to it.. but I will write more when I have the time..

On a sillier note....

I couldn't agree more, Lasatania.
America is overrun with people who hate everybody that doesn't share their views.
And about the church and Balkans thing...

That's why you convert to Judiasm. (I recommend reform or conservative, it's an "easy" religion)

-Jake


Believe it or not.. my latest girlfriend (who I met after making the last post) is Jewish.... oy!

Bush: Well let's pray..... (2 hour pause..) I know, let's force them to accept programs promoting abstinence instead of forcing pharmaceutical companies (who contributed to my election campaign) to provide affordable generic drugs... and lets not even consider condoms.. no, that's not God's plan..

I find this disgusting.

Have you ever been to Africa? They hand out free condoms, courtesy of the US private sector, and the governments try their best to deny the existence of AIDS to their own people and dont even consider the concept of obtaining "affordable" drugs, if they arent free, its too much, if they are, the government will provide them to the population as little as they can, often taking restrictive stances that go as far as only allowing free medication for prisoners with AIDS (often rapists.)


Also, "abortion" is ripe for becoming "eugenics," and i fully support limited banning of the practice. I dont want to see "genetic malcontents" face abortion one day. They are people, not machines.

And of course they preach abstinence. What responsible education system wouldnt? Convincing someone to remain abstinent until marraige is the only 100% effective way to avoid that person from spreading STDs and inflicting sexual violence. African governments dont even bother to preach against multiple partners, like the US does. They arent doing enough to educate about abstinence.

Oh come on.. giving priority in funding terms to projects that prmote abstinance is pointless.... we all know what human nature is really like.. you have a solution that can prevent the spread of disease i.e condoms and instead you try and ram your faith's ideal of how to prevent the disease spreading down people's throats..

that's what I find disgusting..

that and the reluctance of pharmaceutical companies to allow the manufacture of generic AIDS drugs..

Companies only reason of existence is profit, preferable as much as possible, being charitable is not what they're supposed to do... and there is nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with it unless you consider humane social consciousness an imPORtant thing... But indeed capitalism seems to dictate selfishness and a morally bankrupt 'profit at any expense' attitude over anything compassionate let alone helpful and progressive for the entire race like the alleviation of needless suffering. Pax Capitalist, the outlook you seem to support is sick no matter what way it's viewed, and I will pray for your soul tonight.

well we agree on the title of the thread.

If you don't like how much money, or how it is being spent why don't you try getting your country(s) to spend more instead of complaining that the US doesn't do enough or does it "wrong" (highly subjective). The US doesn't HAVE to do anything that is not in its national intrest. But yet even during the cold war when soviet people were starving because the coprupt system couldn't feed its own people who sent them wheat so they could make bread? ah thats right the US did.

The Us taxpayers are a very generous group and we will continue to spend our tax money to help feed the starving, we don't like to see people suffer, but if the rest of the word continues to look a gifthorse in the mouth we may very well decide not to continue. More and more people are getting tired of being blamed for all the worlds problems or for not doing enough to solve them. then you can go cry to China & India for funding.

good day

...it's not the pharmaceutical company it's fault that the sick person hasn't got enough cash.(yes, very black and white)
So you're saying that unless everyone's rich enough (which is impossible) to afford provenly (sic?) overpriced drugs, they deserve to suffer?!?! Can you be any more decadent? Is compassion even slightly visible through you're green coloured lense? Black and white (duality) is an illusion. Grey, grey, grey is what truly intelligent people see in the world. But I bet you sleep like a baby at night with whatever wage-slave labour you commit during the day to offer the mammon to the bloated priests of the almight currency. Is it the poor's fault that the gov't allows millions of jobs to go overseas in the name of profit leaving only McFood service jobs at home for the masses to eak out whatever crumb of the apple pie they can scavenge. Shame on you, I say! I wait eagerly for the day you're fired and get ill.

If you don't like how much money, or how it is being spent why don't you try getting your country(s) to spend more instead of complaining that the US doesn't do enough or does it "wrong"
Like people, all countries cannot have vast amounts of capitol for what it needs to survive well. Resources are finite and if anyone hoardes and wastes them... Well, answer this: would you consider a nation that uses, for instance over 85 per cent of the world's wheat to feed the cows that feeds less than 8 per cent of the world's poulation spending THE WORLD"S resources properly? That same amount of wheat used to directly feed people (bread) would feed well over the 6 billion+ hungry mouths of the human race. That's the actual numbers represtenting the US's consumption of that vital resource. Look it up.

piping hot gravy.
Piping hot gravy RULES!!!

Like people, all countries cannot have vast amounts of capitol for what it needs to survive well. Resources are finite and if anyone hoardes and wastes them... Well, answer this: would you consider a nation that uses, for instance over 85 per cent of the world's wheat to feed the cows that feeds less than 8 per cent of the world's poulation spending THE WORLD"S resources properly? That same amount of wheat used to directly feed people (bread) would feed well over the 6 billion+ hungry mouths of the human race. That's the actual numbers represtenting the US's consumption of that vital resource. Look it up.

well considering we grow the wheat we can use it how we please. We have no responsibility to feed the world. If other countries would modenize they could feed themselves instead of waiting for somebody else to do it for them. And considering we make enough to send it around the world we are doing our part.

I find this disgusting.

Have you ever been to Africa? They hand out free condoms, courtesy of the US private sector, and the governments try their best to deny the existence of AIDS to their own people and dont even consider the concept of obtaining "affordable" drugs, if they arent free, its too much, if they are, the government will provide them to the population as little as they can, often taking restrictive stances that go as far as only allowing free medication for prisoners with AIDS (often rapists.)

And of course they preach abstinence. What responsible education system wouldnt? Convincing someone to remain abstinent until marraige is the only 100% effective way to avoid that person from spreading STDs and inflicting sexual violence. African governments dont even bother to preach against multiple partners, like the US does. They arent doing enough to educate about abstinence.

errm.. about the 1st part.. I HAVE been to sub saharan africa recently in free-democratic namibia/botswana.. and the only place i've seen people selling (notice selling, but cheaply) condoms was in the cities, no where els outside the large closed community, but TBH i havn't seen any places where i could actually buy a condom if i wanted one. there are many many TV commercieals educating you about aids and condoms but who can own a TV there? there are a few posters that people can see, thats it.. and whats more i have not seen a single aid worker educating anyone about the risk of aids at all.. the people painfuly have learned themselves.. why dosnt the government do more? because its too damn poor! where is the foreign aid i expected to see? i didn't see any, the only foreigners i saw owned hotels and stayed in hotels.. all this money is said to be going into africa directly, not through the government but i've seen f*ck all for evidence- that is the case for most western nations. but i have to admit i only stayed 4 weeks.. not long enough to judge whether the situation is any better.

And the sad thing is, its so Moronic.. In the past week I've suffered an American Music Awards programme and Punk'd..
Does your telly not have an off switch? I didn't realise the media had taken over to such an extent.

Indeed it does... but my point overall is probably more to do with US/UK culture as a whole right now, in that its appealing to the lowest possible common denominator.. its almost as if a lack of education is to be celebrated..

Mind you, that's what governments want... people who think shallow celebrity shit is 'awesome' and can't look beyond the borders of their own country to see whats really happening...

...........

As far as abortion goes the pro-choice movement is based on ignorance. (As opposed to those against abortion, who show such 'knowledge' of biology and, you know, facts? Or is propaganda an acceptable substitute for fact now? ("Fully formed at 12 weeks" indeed... not to mention the insane notion that the brain is the first thing to develope, or that partial-birth abortions are performed electively... honestly...)) Anyone who can stand up and believe that a fetus is not human life is pretty stupid. (Or actually possessing the facts that lead to that conclusion, perhaps? Rather than just reacting on a gut level to misinformation?) When you look at the intellectual community (or the few that actually want to defend their barbaric stances) you find arguments like "why should we protect human life."- Peter Singer. Well by that same argument everyone on the right can bomb the hell out of however many people they please. Why should anyone protect human life. Statements like these perpetuated by pro-choice intellectuals show just how morally bankrupt the other side is (or how morally corrupt that *particular* example is. No need to tar us all with a fundamentalists brush. Unless we're allowed to do that too, and accuse you of wanting women to become sex slaves again, forced to stay in the kitchen bare-footed and pregnant...). Some of Singer's colleagues like Capsulet argue that birth bears (pardon the pun) no bright line. They argue babies should and can be killed after birth-- something even a heartless abortion clinin worker would vomit at. Barak Obama poster child of "the moderate" choice is hardly moderate. Look to his position on abortion he believes exactly what Capsulet believes. Babies will be delivered but brutally hacked to death after delivery.(Oooooh, way to show you have no facts. Partial-birth abortions only occur when the mothers health would be in great danger if she had to give birth, and/or the child would die soon after birth. MOST abortion occur before the embryo/fetus even has a nervous system... ie, no brain, no self awareness, no feelings (pain or otherwise). More research for you, my lad).

............

Believe what you want about your admirable stance on abortion. In the span of time it has been legalized 44 million people have died in our country (if you are referring to the aborted, they are not 'people'. The English Language has words like 'fetus' and 'embryo' for a reason - so you can use neutral words and not appear to be a propaganda-monger. Stop trying to emotionally manipulate your audience, and your argument will be met with more sympathy). The US has perpetuated though UNESCO terrible crimes of forced abortions on cultures that have the moral rectitude to say no. The resent that spawns from this clash of culture spawns terrorism.

.............

You should go join the 'pro-lifers, explain yourselves' thread. It's starting to get sidetracked and stale, and could use from fresh blood. We might even get to explain the basics all over again! Yay!

Not exactly what I would call an overwhelming endorsement of our Country. What is it about GWB that you folks seem to despise so much? Is it his somewhat rigid stance? Is it his tendency to stumble over words on occasion? Is it the fact that he's from the Western US? Is it the fact that he's a "practicing Christian?" Is it a reliance on biased news sources? What??

I have to admit that I'm no rabid fan of GWB's, but he's certainly far, far easier to live with than the amoral opportunist Kerry! This guy would sell his own mother for another vote! Perhaps I'm the only one on this board who recognizes that Kerry is a filthy-rich, Eastern US, far-left snob totally without principles. If so, I'll take my leave of you all and let you stew in your own juices.

Sometimes I think it might be best if Kerry actually was elected Commander In Chief. At least it would mean the death-knell of liberalism ( and perhaps even of the Democrat Party! ) in America, once people finally realized just how damned dangerous this unprincipled baffoon really is.

Far-left???

Now, I don't want to argue with anything else you've said (mainly because I haven't finished reading it yet), but...

Are you insane?

*Kerry*? *Far-left*?

I think NOT. I don't think a far-left person could even get into the running in America. You've got right-wing (Bush) and right-center (Kerry). And that's being generous. Being the dirty socialist I am, I'd state it more as: Fundamentalist right (Bush) and far right-wing (Kerry).

So, um, sorry to have to disagree, but there is NO WAY Kerry is far-left. Snob, maybe. Filthy rich, most likely. 'Totally without morals', debatably.

But not far-left. "More left than Bush" I can give you.

Hope that's an acceptable comprimise :p.

You can insult me all you like, butmy diginity remains intact and always will and I regret nothing.
Insult you??

In fact, my good NSer, I wholeheartedly agree!!!