NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm very interested to how the majority of you equate each of these issues since this is a overwhelmingly(sp?) liberal forum. Ive seen numerous threads trying to discredit with the swift boat vets against kerry and almost none discussing the fraudulent CBS documents that were an attempt to destroy Bush's character.

Dan Rather apologized because he couldn't prove the documents to be correct. The Swift Boat Vets stand by their stories even after their stories have been proven wrong

Dan Rather apologized because he couldn't prove the documents to be correct. The Swift Boat Vets stand by their stories even after their stories have been proven wrong

Summed up succintly. Bravo.

Dan Rather apologized because he couldn't prove the documents to be correct. The Swift Boat Vets stand by their stories even after their stories have been proven wrong

Swift-Boat Veterans were wrong? About what? When?

Swift-Boat Veterans were wrong? About what? When?

Gee, the fact that a doctor stated he worked on Kerry when he never did.

The fact that no one in the ad ever was actually serving with Kerry on his boat.

The fact that they are lying about the circumstances surrounding his Silver Star, considering that the Navy as well as other eyewitnesses have stated that Kerry's story is correct.

The fact that several of those in the ad have previously said they believe Kerry to be a great leader...and then all of a sudden they are saying the complete opposite. Isn't that a....flipflop?

I don't know, but I think I'll stick with what the Naval records state, considering that they would be the best source possible. Or maybe with eyewitnesses to the actual events, considering they might also be pretty good sources.

Swift-Boat Veterans were wrong? About what? When?

you know about communism, and baby killing, and patriotism... that was all proved by the media... where were you out saluting the flag or attending a memorial service for a deceased service man or something...

Gee, the fact that a doctor stated he worked on Kerry when he never did.

The fact that no one in the ad ever was actually serving with Kerry on his boat.

The fact that they are lying about the circumstances surrounding his Silver Star, considering that the Navy as well as other eyewitnesses have stated that Kerry's story is correct.

The fact that several of those in the ad have previously said they believe Kerry to be a great leader...and then all of a sudden they are saying the complete opposite. Isn't that a....flipflop?

I don't know, but I think I'll stick with what the Naval records state, considering that they would be the best source possible. Or maybe with eyewitnesses to the actual events, considering they might also be pretty good sources.

I'm familiar with the statement by Naval Records, but I'm not familiar with the others. Any idea about the sources, URLs, whatever?

The Naval Records statement was a "boilerplate" statement issued when the Navy either can't find any discrepancies in the original records, or when they simply don't feel as though the time and effort involved in researching the incidents in question is worth it. They get thousands of requests for record review every month and seldom even go back to the original documents unless it's something like the Navy Cross or the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Gee, the fact that a doctor stated he worked on Kerry when he never did.Really? I guess we won't know that for sure, since Kerry won't release his Navy medical records.

The fact that no one in the ad ever was actually serving with Kerry on his boat.
Are you sure about that? Even then, how many of them were in boats close to Kerry's during different actions. Of course, Kerry was in Vietnam a very short time, so that diminishes the number of folks who could have served in his boat.

The fact that they are lying about the circumstances surrounding his Silver Star, considering that the Navy as well as other eyewitnesses have stated that Kerry's story is correct.
Are you referring to the Silver Star citation that was re-written in 1986? After all, Kerry's own logs of the time when he got the Purple Hearts and the Silver and Bronze Stars (by the way, the Silver Star doesn't come with a V for valor device...oops!) do indicate that in at least 2 of his 3 Purple Hearts there was NO enemy fire. And let's not even go into the whole war crime he committed by shooting an out-of-action enemy combatant. Law of Armed Conflict, anyone?

The fact that several of those in the ad have previously said they believe Kerry to be a great leader...and then all of a sudden they are saying the complete opposite. Isn't that a....flipflop?
If it is, they learned from Kerry himself. In fact, "they thought he was a great leader before they thought he wasn't." So there.

I don't know, but I think I'll stick with what the Naval records state, considering that they would be the best source possible.
They would be, if Kerry would authorize a release of his ENTIRE record, not just hand-picked portions of it.

Or maybe with eyewitnesses to the actual events, considering they might also be pretty good sources.
You must be referring to the "eyewitnesses" that are being paid by the Kerry campaign, right? Hey, for the right amount of money, even I would say nice things about Kerry.

you know about communism, and baby killing, and patriotism... that was all proved by the media... where were you out saluting the flag or attending a memorial service for a deceased service man or something...

No, I was probably busy running my business.

What media? Any names or URLs?

nope absolutely none.

Another difference between the two--the documents that Rather apologized for didn't tell us anything we didn't already know about Bush's National Guard service--or lack thereof. They were supplementary evidence at best.

And yes--the Swift Boat vets have been thoroughly discredited as far as their claims about Kerry's Vietnam service are concerned, and their second ad uses Kerry quotes taken out of context and makes charges about his testimony that are demonstrably false.

It never fails to piss me off when people trash someone who served our great nation. Kerry served two tours of duty in Vietnam. The 4 month crap was that has been spewed out by Republicans is from his second tour. Kerry was in Vietnam for 16 months so shove that "short time" crap out your rear.

Let's just address your snide comments:

Really? I guess we won't know that for sure, since Kerry won't release his Navy medical records.

If you bother to check, you can see Kerry's records on his website. Kerry's campaign has called on Bush to do the same. Any word on when that will happen? By the way, you CAN find out who the treating physician was. Its not that hard.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

Are you sure about that? Even then, how many of them were in boats close to Kerry's during different actions. Of course, Kerry was in Vietnam a very short time, so that diminishes the number of folks who could have served in his boat.

Yes, I'm sure about it. You can check the records for yourself. None of the members of the Swiftboat ad were EVER in service on the same boat as Kerry. That's pretty damned simple. This arguing about what the term "served" means seems a little hypocritical considering how much crap the Republicans spent on the definition of "is" during the Clinton years.

Are you referring to the Silver Star citation that was re-written in 1986? After all, Kerry's own logs of the time when he got the Purple Hearts and the Silver and Bronze Stars (by the way, the Silver Star doesn't come with a V for valor device...oops!) do indicate that in at least 2 of his 3 Purple Hearts there was NO enemy fire. And let's not even go into the whole war crime he committed by shooting an out-of-action enemy combatant. Law of Armed Conflict, anyone?

Check the record. You CAN see the record. Check it. Stop writing bull. By the way, Kerry's record lists the BRONZE STAR WITH COMBAT V, so you either can't read or are just trying to stir up constroversy with that inane comment.

If it is, they learned from Kerry himself. In fact, "they thought he was a great leader before they thought he wasn't." So there.

It is, and I guess in that case they all learned it from Bush, since he's been flipflopping since he became a political figure.

They would be, if Kerry would authorize a release of his ENTIRE record, not just hand-picked portions of it.

Have you just been too lazy to look? The pertinent information has been released. Why release any more when he's up against a candidate that won't release his full record? Seems fair that if one side is calling for the other side to release everything, that first side would have done everything in its power to have done the same.

You must be referring to the "eyewitnesses" that are being paid by the Kerry campaign, right? Hey, for the right amount of money, even I would say nice things about Kerry.

Uh oh, you're lying again. The eyewitnesses you so easily discount have stated they aren't being paid by the Kerry campaign. So either you know something that no one else does and should have reported it to the FEC, or you're just pulling something else out of your rear.

Bush never completed his service contract. He has no proof that he ever completed his service to our country. His records continue to be "lost" so no one can see the proof of his service in Alabama. He is a dishonorable disgrace to our military and he shows it each day with his callous disregard for our military.

When you can find proof that Kerry's military record is distorted or not truthful, point it out so people can see it. Otherwise, quit bashing the record of a decorated military veteran. Are you of the same type of person who would scream about never publishing the truth about what goes on in war because it demoralizes the troops? How the hell do you think soldiers feel when they see people like you destroy decorated veterans? Have you ever thought about that? Have you ever thought about the damage you people are doing to the morale of our soldiers by lying about the record of a fellow serviceman?

The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country ~George Washington

does it really even matter? clinton outright dodged the draft. he made an alright prsident. except for givivng out nuclear secrets to foreign countries. ohhh and for only half heartedly bombing irac and afganistan just enough to piss them off even more. all i am saying is that accually being in a war makes you no less better at handling one. they are both lying through their teeth about their military records. anyone who thinks otherwise is extremely left or right and are blinded by their own willingness to be sheep.

It never fails to piss me off when people trash someone who served our great nation. Kerry served two tours of duty in Vietnam. The 4 month crap was that has been spewed out by Republicans is from his second tour. Kerry was in Vietnam for 16 months so shove that "short time" crap out your rear.

Let's just address your snide comments:



If you bother to check, you can see Kerry's records on his website. Kerry's campaign has called on Bush to do the same. Any word on when that will happen? By the way, you CAN find out who the treating physician was. Its not that hard.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html



Yes, I'm sure about it. You can check the records for yourself. None of the members of the Swiftboat ad were EVER in service on the same boat as Kerry. That's pretty damned simple. This arguing about what the term "served" means seems a little hypocritical considering how much crap the Republicans spent on the definition of "is" during the Clinton years.



Check the record. You CAN see the record. Check it. Stop writing bull. By the way, Kerry's record lists the BRONZE STAR WITH COMBAT V, so you either can't read or are just trying to stir up constroversy with that inane comment.



It is, and I guess in that case they all learned it from Bush, since he's been flipflopping since he became a political figure.



Have you just been too lazy to look? The pertinent information has been released. Why release any more when he's up against a candidate that won't release his full record? Seems fair that if one side is calling for the other side to release everything, that first side would have done everything in its power to have done the same.



Uh oh, you're lying again. The eyewitnesses you so easily discount have stated they aren't being paid by the Kerry campaign. So either you know something that no one else does and should have reported it to the FEC, or you're just pulling something else out of your rear.

Bush never completed his service contract. He has no proof that he ever completed his service to our country. His records continue to be "lost" so no one can see the proof of his service in Alabama. He is a dishonorable disgrace to our military and he shows it each day with his callous disregard for our military.

When you can find proof that Kerry's military record is distorted or not truthful, point it out so people can see it. Otherwise, quit bashing the record of a decorated military veteran. Are you of the same type of person who would scream about never publishing the truth about what goes on in war because it demoralizes the troops? How the hell do you think soldiers feel when they see people like you destroy decorated veterans? Have you ever thought about that? Have you ever thought about the damage you people are doing to the morale of our soldiers by lying about the record of a fellow serviceman?

Do you people even listen to yourselves anymore? I'm so sick of this crap. None of the swift vets speaking out against Kerry were on his boat...except the one who Sean Hannity interviewed about a week ago. Bush hasn't released his records, except...all of them, again about a week ago. Kerry has a documented "combat V"...which doesn't exist. Kerry has no inconsistencies in his record, except that secret mission to Cambodia that he claimed he had been on that his record indicates would be impossible for the time he had given. Eye witnesses support Kerry...well the veterans who don't were eyewitnesses too.

But what really gets me is that you, sir, seem to be very concerned about having the reputation of veterans tarnished and the morale of troops crushed. If this is so, why do you support John Kerry, a man who inspired Viet Cong everywhere with his cruel and malicious slander. I'm too tired of this hogwash, you'll believe whatever suits you, I'm going to bed.

Hey, for the right amount of money, even I would say nice things about Kerry.

Republicanism at its finest/worst? :eek:

Bolding and colouring....mine.

Sad statement......yours.

one. (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359864) two (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359605) three (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359031) four. (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356784) five. (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=358002) six (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=357342) seven (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356887) eight (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356182) nine (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356488) ten (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356108)
and then I stopped looking.

Yeah, we where totally ignoring the whole CBS thing.....

Sorry, forgot something:
WOLF! I'm totally serious, no BS this time! There is TOTALLY a wolf, right over there!!!!

Do you people even listen to yourselves anymore?
An excellent question.....do YOU?

I'm so sick of this crap.
Me too!!

But what really gets me is that you, sir, seem to be very concerned about having the reputation of veterans tarnished and the morale of troops crushed.
Well he did serve his country and kinda earned that right? I tend to agree with him big time.

If this is so, why do you support John Kerry, a man who inspired Viet Cong everywhere with his cruel and malicious slander.
Speaking of "cruel and malicious slander", you seem to be doing a good job of that yourself?

Now to borrow your quote, "what really gets me is that you, sir," should know that according to naval records, John Kerry served his country in an honourable manner, to such extent, that he even risked his life to save the life of a fellow sailor while under enemy attack. This would be enough in most peoples eyes to deem him a war hero, except you of course sir. Since you were NOT there and do not know the facts, how is it possible for you to pass judgement?

Also, do you honestly believe that while he was protesting the US war in Viet Nam (too many Americans were dying or getting injured), that he was trying to "inspire Viet Cong everywhere"? Give me a break.

It appears that Bush and his henchmen seem to have a great track record of trying to discredit decorated Viet Nam "war heroes", such as John McCain, Max Cleland, and John Kerry. The constant here, is that they fought in Viet Nam and Bush didn't, yet they are LESS worthy? By trying to discredit them, you and your ilk do a great disservice to those men and your country, IMHO!!

So your question is a very good one.......do you people listen to yourselves?

God Bless America (except those who served in Viet Nam)?

Land of the brave AND George W. Bush.

An excellent question.....do YOU?

Me too!!

Well he did serve his country and kinda earned that right? I tend to agree with him big time.

Speaking of "cruel and malicious slander", you seem to be doing a good job of that yourself?

Now to borrow your quote, "what really gets me is that you, sir," should know that according to naval records, John Kerry served his country in an honourable manner, to such extent, that he even risked his life to save the life of a fellow sailor while under enemy attack. This would be enough in most peoples eyes to deem him a war hero, except you of course sir. Since you were NOT there and do not know the facts, how is it possible for you to pass judgement?

Also, do you honestly believe that while he was protesting the US war in Viet Nam (too many Americans were dying or getting injured), that he was trying to "inspire Viet Cong everywhere"? Give me a break.

It appears that Bush and his henchmen seem to have a great track record of trying to discredit decorated Viet Nam "war heroes", such as John McCain, Max Cleland, and John Kerry. The constant here, is that they fought in Viet Nam and Bush didn't, yet they are LESS worthy? By trying to discredit them, you and your ilk do a great disservice to those men and your country, IMHO!!

So your question is a very good one.......do you people listen to yourselves?

God Bless America (except those who served in Viet Nam)?

Land of the brave AND George W. Bush.
You ROCK!

one. (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359864) two (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359605) three (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359031) four. (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356784) five. (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=358002) six (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=357342) seven (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356887) eight (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356182) nine (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356488) ten (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356108)
and then I stopped looking.

Yeah, we where totally ignoring the whole CBS thing.....

Sorry, forgot something:
WOLF! I'm totally serious, no BS this time! There is TOTALLY a wolf, right over there!!!!

My thoughts exactly. I've been swimming in CBS threads for the last week, have you not been looking through the forums or something? They're freakin' everywhere, almost as prevelant as they are annoying.

Swift Vets = right-wing attempt to discredit Kerry
Dan Rather = left-wing attempt to discredit Bush