NationStates Jolt Archive

who is better

i reckon topcat

I go with Pink Panther. Much more :cool: , IMO.

you cant even compare these 2, pink panther owns

you cant even compare these 2, pink panther owns
Hey, we actually agree on something! :D

Top Cat is just Bilko in cartoon form. It lacks the surreal psychological depths of the original Pink Panther cartoons (i.e. the ones with the kid in the fancy car delivering PP and Inspector Clouseau to the cinema at the beginning). The original Pink Panther was probably the only funny American made-for-tv kids' animation until Ren & Stimpy. The rest were just lame standing-and-blinking-over-a-laughtrack crap like The Flintstones and Huckleberry Hound.

Hate to say it, but Hanna Barbera toons are wusses. Top Cat included.

pink panther RULES

Pink panther rules! I used to watch that all the time as a kid.

You know what is really weird? Today I'm wearing a pink panther T-shirt and zip up sweatshirt.

pink panther, hardcore.

Mancini Rules!

Pink Panther used Mancini for background music.

Therefore

Pink Panther Rules!

Q.E.D.

How can you say this!? Top Cat was the most Tip Top, Top Cat!

Top Cat is just Bilko in cartoon form. It lacks the surreal psychological depths of the original Pink Panther cartoons (i.e. the ones with the kid in the fancy car delivering PP and Inspector Clouseau to the cinema at the beginning). The original Pink Panther was probably the only funny American made-for-tv kids' animation until Ren & Stimpy. The rest were just lame standing-and-blinking-over-a-laughtrack crap like The Flintstones and Huckleberry Hound.
how DARE you compare pink panther to ren and stimpy, all ren and sitmpy was was the predecessor to the shitty cartoons of today: fairly odd parents, edd, edd, and eddy, (grim is ok), the thing with some evil guys brain and stomach attached to a circus bear, and crap like that. flintstones was a much better show than ren and stimpy could ever hope to be.

how DARE you compare pink panther to ren and stimpy, all ren and sitmpy was was the predecessor to the shitty cartoons of today: fairly odd parents, edd, edd, and eddy, (grim is ok), the thing with some evil guys brain and stomach attached to a circus bear, and crap like that. flintstones was a much better show than ren and stimpy could ever hope to be.

Well, tastes vary, I suppose. I haven't seen any of the cartoons you refer to that Ren and Stimpy are supposedly resposible for (although I don't think Spumco make any of them), but in my opinion Ren and Stimpy were funny, subversive and well animated, and the Flintstones were badly animated, horribly mainstream and corny.

Classic Ren and Stimpy moments: Powdered Toast Man rescuing the Pope (voiced by Frank Zappa); Ren and Stimpy as two USSR cosmonauts in a space race against two all-American pigs from NASA ("Communist dog!" "Capitalist pig!"); the mock adverts ("Log" and "New Log for girls!", the great new family game "Don't Whizz on the Electric Fence", "Dog Water", "Powdered Toast" etc.); the World of Nature show where a Lummox belches the Gettysburg Address; the Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen song; anything at all with the baboon; and so on and so forth. The fact that I can remember these, despite not having seen them in 10 years, says something about how good they were and something less flattering about the sort of information my mind holds on to.

Classic Flintstones moments: er...

I've never acctually watched a Topcat cartoon, but I cant stand his character to the eye so I really have to go with Pink panther.

Just as long as you don't count the stupid later ones where the Pink Panther actually speaks. That he didn't speak was a huge part of the original's charm.

Quality, Even though Pink Panther is a naked pink panther, he's still the coolest panther, but who would win in a fight, Sheeh-Kahn (jungle Book), or Pink Panther? :sniper:

Pink Panther. On theme song basis alone.

Top Cat is just Bilko in cartoon form. It lacks the surreal psychological depths of the original Pink Panther cartoons (i.e. the ones with the kid in the fancy car delivering PP and Inspector Clouseau to the cinema at the beginning). The original Pink Panther was probably the only funny American made-for-tv kids' animation until Ren & Stimpy. The rest were just lame standing-and-blinking-over-a-laughtrack crap like The Flintstones and Huckleberry Hound.

Gad, I hated Ren & Stimpy, that show was so stupid. It was one of those cartoons where they made all the characters look like something that lived next to a nuclear power plant. "Snot" cartoons (as my friend calls them) are all a disgrace. Cow & Chicken, Ed, Ed, and Eddy, Sponge Bob Square-Pants (or however it's spelled) are all just terrible. Those cartoons are the reason I stopped watching Cartoon Network when I was a little younger. Whatever happened to the Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd on Saturday mornings?

Top Cat is just Bilko in cartoon form. It lacks the surreal psychological depths of the original Pink Panther cartoons (i.e. the ones with the kid in the fancy car delivering PP and Inspector Clouseau to the cinema at the beginning). The original Pink Panther was probably the only funny American made-for-tv kids' animation until Ren & Stimpy. The rest were just lame standing-and-blinking-over-a-laughtrack crap like The Flintstones and Huckleberry Hound.
Damn.You made the Bilko link before I did.
But Top Cat was WAY more streetwise.
and a snappy dresser.
He had a gang too.
and was often getting hassled by the cops (Officer Dibble)
I would say 90% Bilko,10% Huggy bear.
Top Cat RULES.

Pink Panther!

The original Pink Panther was probably the only funny American made-for-tv kids' animation until Ren & Stimpy.
What about the 40's Warner Bros. cartoons? Or don't they count as made for TV and kids?

What about the 40's Warner Bros. cartoons? Or don't they count as made for TV and kids?

No, they were made for cinema. Cartoons for TV had to be churned out, so the animation tended to be really bad (only one character moving at a time, non-moving/speaking characters just blinked now and then to show they were still alive, 12 frames per second instead of 24, spoken jokes instead of visual gags, etc.) The Warner and MGM cartoons of the 40s and 50s were made to entertain a mixed cinema audience of adults and children -- which is why they're still hilarious.

Gad, I hated Ren & Stimpy, that show was so stupid. It was one of those cartoons where they made all the characters look like something that lived next to a nuclear power plant. "Snot" cartoons (as my friend calls them) are all a disgrace. Cow & Chicken, Ed, Ed, and Eddy, Sponge Bob Square-Pants (or however it's spelled) are all just terrible. Those cartoons are the reason I stopped watching Cartoon Network when I was a little younger. Whatever happened to the Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd on Saturday mornings?

Granted, there were Ren and Stimpy moments that made me gag, but they represented a return to the visual humour and high standards of animation of the Warner and MGM classics. Extreme violence and insanity: that's what cartoons should be about. My personal all-time favourite is the Tex Avery cartoon Bad Luck Blackie.

Pink Panter, 'cause Mr. Bean puts him on his desk during the exam

Well, tastes vary, I suppose. I haven't seen any of the cartoons you refer to that Ren and Stimpy are supposedly resposible for (although I don't think Spumco make any of them), but in my opinion Ren and Stimpy were funny, subversive and well animated, and the Flintstones were badly animated, horribly mainstream and corny.

Classic Ren and Stimpy moments: Powdered Toast Man rescuing the Pope (voiced by Frank Zappa); Ren and Stimpy as two USSR cosmonauts in a space race against two all-American pigs from NASA ("Communist dog!" "Capitalist pig!"); the mock adverts ("Log" and "New Log for girls!", the great new family game "Don't Whizz on the Electric Fence", "Dog Water", "Powdered Toast" etc.); the World of Nature show where a Lummox belches the Gettysburg Address; the Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen song; anything at all with the baboon; and so on and so forth. The fact that I can remember these, despite not having seen them in 10 years, says something about how good they were and something less flattering about the sort of information my mind holds on to.

Classic Flintstones moments: er...
flintstones was also what? 20 years older than ren and stimpy? if not older. the story lines were better, the animation looked better, ren and stimpy looked like snot. if you ask em, it was a sick joke of the cartoon industry that juts makes american cartoons look bad. same with cow and chicken, ed edd andeddy and the other crap cartoon network tried to introduce several years back

flintstones was also what? 20 years older than ren and stimpy? if not older. the story lines were better, the animation looked better, ren and stimpy looked like snot. if you ask em, it was a sick joke of the cartoon industry that juts makes american cartoons look bad. same with cow and chicken, ed edd andeddy and the other crap cartoon network tried to introduce several years back

Yes, The Flintstones is much older than Ren and Stimpy. Old TV tends to be bad. I disagree with you that the animation looked better. It consisted of flat, blocky characters who were cheaply animated with simple cell movements, and it was boring: just blue-collar American life with the one running gag that it was the Stone Age and all mod. cons. were provided by dinosaurs. Funny as a one-off, but it got tiresome really quickly.

As for the "story lines": who wants a cartoon with story lines? That's the problem with too many modern cartoons. They're obsessed with "plot". They don't need plots. A five- or ten-minute lurch from pursuit to pursuit liberally sprinkled with explosions, falling anvils and mind-bending lunacy is what I want from my cartoons, not some tedious sanitised tale of suburban America with a dino-powered bowlerama.

Still, humour is individual. If you find The Flintstones funny, fair enough. Lots of people apparently found Friends funny, too. There's no accounting for taste.

Yes, The Flintstones is much older than Ren and Stimpy. Old TV tends to be bad. I disagree with you that the animation looked better. It consisted of flat, blocky characters who were cheaply animated with simple cell movements, and it was boring: just blue-collar American life with the one running gag that it was the Stone Age and all mod. cons. were provided by dinosaurs. Funny as a one-off, but it got tiresome really quickly.

As for the "story lines": who wants a cartoon with story lines? That's the problem with too many modern cartoons. They're obsessed with "plot". They don't need plots. A five- or ten-minute lurch from pursuit to pursuit liberally sprinkled with explosions, falling anvils and mind-bending lunacy is what I want from my cartoons, not some tedious sanitised tale of suburban America with a dino-powered bowlerama.

Still, humour is individual. If you find The Flintstones funny, fair enough. Lots of people apparently found Friends funny, too. There's no accounting for taste.

How can you say that the animation on Ren and Stimpy was good, at all? Their characters are hideous and it looks like something a five year old could draw. At least the Flinstones resembled humans, I still have no clue what the heck Ren and Stimpy were supposed to be.

Yes, The Flintstones is much older than Ren and Stimpy. Old TV tends to be bad. I disagree with you that the animation looked better. It consisted of flat, blocky characters who were cheaply animated with simple cell movements, and it was boring: just blue-collar American life with the one running gag that it was the Stone Age and all mod. cons. were provided by dinosaurs. Funny as a one-off, but it got tiresome really quickly.

As for the "story lines": who wants a cartoon with story lines? That's the problem with too many modern cartoons. They're obsessed with "plot". They don't need plots. A five- or ten-minute lurch from pursuit to pursuit liberally sprinkled with explosions, falling anvils and mind-bending lunacy is what I want from my cartoons, not some tedious sanitised tale of suburban America with a dino-powered bowlerama.

Still, humour is individual. If you find The Flintstones funny, fair enough. Lots of people apparently found Friends funny, too. There's no accounting for taste.
but friends was what you like, a pretend story line buried in the trash and bad corny jokes.

How can you say that the animation on Ren and Stimpy was good, at all? Their characters are hideous and it looks like something a five year old could draw. At least the Flinstones resembled humans, I still have no clue what the heck Ren and Stimpy were supposed to be.
like i said, snot. the only thingi ever identified was log.

I'd like to seperate the comparison of Ren & Stimpy with the lineage of supposed immitators.

Even if Cow & Chicken, Ed, Edd, & Eddie do get insperation from Ren & Stimpy, it does not mean that they got it right.

Way back when, before the Sick & Twisted was born I got to see the original Big House Blues, Frog Baseball, and Rugrats at Spike and Mike Animation Festival. It was a new animation, Ren & Stimpy specifically taking its insperation from Ralph Baccshi, Kirkfolusi (Ren & Stimpy creator) having worked with Baccshi on The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse, a show unfairly canceled when touchy parents thought a villian did cocaine by sniffing a crushed flower. Bastards). The success of these cartoons spawned what has now become the more popular "Sick and Twisted" version of the festival, which only recently has moved beyond showing Lupo the Butcher and Bambi Meets Godzilla-admitedly it had a Rocky Horror feel to see these familiar shorts-but I was going to the festival to see new animation.

It was a surealistic, adult oriented cartoon-admitedly for a frat boy crowd on occcasion. What many might be confused by is post Kirkfolusi toons, when Nickelodeon (a mistake for that network to play those shows in the first place, if it had to be a Viacom entity, it should have been MTV) fired him from the show. Festival favorite Bob Camp took over and produced some classics such as "Boot Camp," but with out Camp or Kirkfolusi the cartoon degenerated into buggar and fart jokes which WERE NOT the core of the originals. Look at sheer classics like "Space Madness," it is the mania and surrealism that is the core of the humour. ("Only you understand me ice cream sandwich," "We're not hitchhiking anymore, WE'RE RIDING!!!," holding a toothbrush "Don't make me use it! Thats it!" brushes teeth, and of course the shiny red button).

In short (too late) that R&S was abused is unfair to condem the whole. Stewarts of the shows later episodes and presumed imitators missed the point of the show, you don't have to.

It's real heritage is to have helped usher in animation of cartoons. For that it should be lauded.

too long, no one will read this...damn

Oh, and Pink Panther rules all over Top Cat. Even it's companion toons where better.

Pink Panther. Case Closed.

Pink Panter, 'cause Mr. Bean puts him on his desk during the exam

True, and a very good argument :D BTW, in wich episode was this again?

How can you say that the animation on Ren and Stimpy was good, at all? Their characters are hideous and it looks like something a five year old could draw. At least the Flinstones resembled humans, I still have no clue what the heck Ren and Stimpy were supposed to be.

In terms of animation, Ren and Stimpy was undoubtedly superior to The Flintstones and other Hannah-Barbera made-for-TV stuff, as Ren and Stimpy ran at 24 frames per second and the Hannah-Barbera cartoons ran at 12. In this purely technical sense, Ren and Stimpy had much higher quality animation.

The rest is merely a question of taste. You like the Hannah-Barbera house style; I prefer Spumco's painterly qualities and consider it to be of a far higher artistic calibre.

In my view, Ren and Stimpy broke the staid, tired mold of conventional TV cartoons. More importantly, it got the weirdness right back in there ("The Scotsman in Space" is a good example, with its utter lack of respect for common sense, linearity or anything else -- to say nothing of the glorious kilt-based 2001 ripoff at the start) and put cartoon violence back where it belongs: on-screen, right in front of your eyes, not off to one side covered by a puff of smoke and a "bong!" noise.

Ren and Stimpy provoked howls of protest from the Moral Minority and prolonged shrieks of "Think of the children!" For that alone, I salute it. The Flintstones, on the other hand, was just one more piece of corporate soul-sucking blandness. One US network even tried to tout it as "educational".

True, and a very good argument :D BTW, in wich episode was this again?
the episode where he has to take some sort of exam and tries to cheat it all the time.

but friends was what you like, a pretend story line buried in the trash and bad corny jokes.

??

I think maybe I didn't explain properly. Friends and The Flintstones have this in common: a basic plot per episode, along the rails of which the stock characters can trundle and make crappy jokes. Ren and Stimpy, like the Looney Tunes and Tex Avery cartoons, eschewed any plot beyond a basic setting -- wildly different for each cartoon -- and just trundled from crisis to crisis through a melee of violence, madness and primarily visual humour.

The Flintstones was just a cartoon sit-com for kids, conforming to all the rules (husbands are dumb and get into scrapes, wives know all but love their husbands anyway, kids are cute and say the darndest things, gosh gee whiz shucks golly), and training their audience to expect no better. Ren and Stimpy conformed to nothing but itself. If others have since imitated their style, so what? That's what always happens.

But: I can't change what you like. Each to his own.

Kimba the White Lion (http://www.bcdb.com/cartoons/Other_Studios/M/Mushi_Productions/Kimba_the_White_Lion/) would make dog food of them both.

Go, White Lion..!

I'd like to seperate the comparison of Ren & Stimpy with the lineage of supposed immitators.

Even if Cow & Chicken, Ed, Edd, & Eddie do get insperation from Ren & Stimpy, it does not mean that they got it right.

Way back when, before the Sick & Twisted was born I got to see the original Big House Blues, Frog Baseball, and Rugrats at Spike and Mike Animation Festival. It was a new animation, Ren & Stimpy specifically taking its insperation from Ralph Baccshi, Kirkfolusi (Ren & Stimpy creator) having worked with Baccshi on The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse, a show unfairly canceled when touchy parents thought a villian did cocaine by sniffing a crushed flower. Bastards). The success of these cartoons spawned what has now become the more popular "Sick and Twisted" version of the festival, which only recently has moved beyond showing Lupo the Butcher and Bambi Meets Godzilla-admitedly it had a Rocky Horror feel to see these familiar shorts-but I was going to the festival to see new animation.

It was a surealistic, adult oriented cartoon-admitedly for a frat boy crowd on occcasion. What many might be confused by is post Kirkfolusi toons, when Nickelodeon (a mistake for that network to play those shows in the first place, if it had to be a Viacom entity, it should have been MTV) fired him from the show. Festival favorite Bob Camp took over and produced some classics such as "Boot Camp," but with out Camp or Kirkfolusi the cartoon degenerated into buggar and fart jokes which WERE NOT the core of the originals. Look at sheer classics like "Space Madness," it is the mania and surrealism that is the core of the humour. ("Only you understand me ice cream sandwich," "We're not hitchhiking anymore, WE'RE RIDING!!!," holding a toothbrush "Don't make me use it! Thats it!" brushes teeth, and of course the shiny red button).

In short (too late) that R&S was abused is unfair to condem the whole. Stewarts of the shows later episodes and presumed imitators missed the point of the show, you don't have to.

It's real heritage is to have helped usher in animation of cartoons. For that it should be lauded.

too long, no one will read this...damn

I read it, and I agree wholeheartedly. "The shiny, jolly, candy-like red button!" Hee hee hee.

To all those out there who for whatever reason think The Flintstones is superior: can you, off the top of your head, name one honest-to-God laugh-out-loud moment from a Flintstones episode that can still cause you to snigger in bus queues, post offices, funeral parlours etc. when the memory happens to surface unbidden?

In terms of animation, Ren and Stimpy was undoubtedly superior to The Flintstones and other Hannah-Barbera made-for-TV stuff, as Ren and Stimpy ran at 24 frames per second and the Hannah-Barbera cartoons ran at 12. In this purely technical sense, Ren and Stimpy had much higher quality animation.

The rest is merely a question of taste. You like the Hannah-Barbera house style; I prefer Spumco's painterly qualities and consider it to be of a far higher artistic calibre.

In my view, Ren and Stimpy broke the staid, tired mold of conventional TV cartoons. More importantly, it got the weirdness right back in there ("The Scotsman in Space" is a good example, with its utter lack of respect for common sense, linearity or anything else -- to say nothing of the glorious kilt-based 2001 ripoff at the start) and put cartoon violence back where it belongs: on-screen, right in front of your eyes, not off to one side covered by a puff of smoke and a "bong!" noise.

Ren and Stimpy provoked howls of protest from the Moral Minority and prolonged shrieks of "Think of the children!" For that alone, I salute it. The Flintstones, on the other hand, was just one more piece of corporate soul-sucking blandness. One US network even tried to tout it as "educational".

Hey, I never liked the Flintstones, that show bored me. But I always liked the Looney Toons but they never play them on TV anymore. All the cartoons now are freakin' stupid and I can't even stand to watch them anymore. I think the humor in a Buggs Bunny cartoon is ten times more funny than some of those new awful cartoons on now. There are so many terrible, badly animated shows out there now.

Hey, I never liked the Flintstones, that show bored me. But I always liked the Looney Toons but they never play them on TV anymore. All the cartoons now are freakin' stupid and I can't even stand to watch them anymore. I think the humor in a Buggs Bunny cartoon is ten times more funny than some of those new awful cartoons on now. There are so many terrible, badly animated shows out there now.

Oh, I agree. It all comes down to money in the end. The original Warner Brothers and MGM cartoons were made for the cinema, as part of an overall package of entertainment, and didn't have to please advertisers or sponsors and weren't manufactured as part of a corporate scheme to sell a million tons of plastic tat to the world's children. All they had to do was be funny. I don't think many of today's animators have that luxury -- certainly not for children's TV, which is probably more highly commercialised than any stream of adult entertainment. Probably part of the reason I like Ren and Stimpy is because they tried to buck that trend, even to the extent of producing spoof adverts of their own. It's noticeable that none of the later, neutered, post-John K cartoons ever attempt to satirise commercial activity.

In short, the reason why modern cartoons aren't funny is: CAPITALISM. It has worse sins, true, but this is one of 'em. :)