NationStates Jolt Archive

I've heard a lot about gay people marrying each other, and states banning it or making it legal, and everyone arguing about it. But I've been thinking 'Hey, its their lives, let them do as they want. They aren't bothering me.' But if anything about the gay lifestyle should be discussed, it should be them adopting kids. Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right. What they do in their personal time is their business, but when they start raising kids, they're going too far. Now I know some people might think I'm being cruel or something, but is it right for them to raise kids to believe that what they're doing is right? Its like Nazi propaganda in the 30's. Kids should be raised in as normal a lifestyle as they can get, with a mother and a father. They should be raised with a chance to decide later in life what their lifestyle will be, not being raised thinking its ok to marry someone of the same sex. Thats like being raised thinking its alright to practice beastiality, just because you think the animal loves you.

Again, I'm not saying gay people shouldn't be able to be gay, or marry. I'm saying its wrong to raise children in such a lifestyle.

i just want to know what other people think.

It's queer

I've heard a lot about gay people marrying each other, and states banning it or making it legal, and everyone arguing about it. But I've been thinking 'Hey, its their lives, let them do as they want. They aren't bothering me.' But if anything about the gay lifestyle should be discussed, it should be them adopting kids. Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right. What they do in their personal time is their business, but when they start raising kids, they're going too far. Now I know some people might think I'm being cruel or something, but is it right for them to raise kids to believe that what they're doing is right? Its like Nazi propaganda in the 30's. Kids should be raised in as normal a lifestyle as they can get, with a mother and a father. They should be raised with a chance to decide later in life what their lifestyle will be, not being raised thinking its ok to marry someone of the same sex. Thats like being raised thinking its alright to practice beastiality, just because you think the animal loves you.

Again, I'm not saying gay people shouldn't be able to be gay, or marry. I'm saying its wrong to raise children in such a lifestyle.

i just want to know what other people think.
i think you are an ignorant bigot

i THOROUGHLY debunked some one like you in our letters to the editor months ago

they tried to make the same point: that kids shouldnt be raised in a gay household because thats not normal guess what

40+% of kids live in single parent households, thats not even to include those living in ABUSIVE households, OR living alone

in the real world here, every straight person does not equate to a "normal" loving family, in your fantasy homophobic world all gays mgiht be evil children eaters living in gingerbread houses and all straight people are the Cleavers or Bradys. but this isnt homophobic universe and alot of times gay people are alot more "normal" and caring as a family than straight people

As long as they treat the kid(s) with respect then I don't have a problem with it. I bet many of you would be shocked at that....

Well, I've heard the paedophilia link before . . I guess it was only a matter of time before someone threw bestiality in there, too.

'Hey, its their lives, let them do as they want. They aren't bothering me.'

And the way a gay couple would raise their children bothers you . . how? Why?

I think that this is a moot point, since thousands of "normal" straight households are far from normal -- domestic abuse, alcoholism, sexual abuse . . being straight doesn't make you a better parent, it just makes you straight. Plus, take into account that thousands of straight households teach their children that it's ok to be racist or homophobic.

I don't think that gay parenting should be the focus of consternation in a world so full of mixed-up straight households, especially by someone who otherwise claims that gays don't bother them.

I've heard a lot about gay people marrying each other, and states banning it or making it legal, and everyone arguing about it. But I've been thinking 'Hey, its their lives, let them do as they want. They aren't bothering me.' But if anything about the gay lifestyle should be discussed, it should be them adopting kids. Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right. What they do in their personal time is their business, but when they start raising kids, they're going too far. Now I know some people might think I'm being cruel or something, but is it right for them to raise kids to believe that what they're doing is right? Its like Nazi propaganda in the 30's. Kids should be raised in as normal a lifestyle as they can get, with a mother and a father. They should be raised with a chance to decide later in life what their lifestyle will be, not being raised thinking its ok to marry someone of the same sex. Thats like being raised thinking its alright to practice beastiality, just because you think the animal loves you.

Again, I'm not saying gay people shouldn't be able to be gay, or marry. I'm saying its wrong to raise children in such a lifestyle.

i just want to know what other people think.

How about letting conservative Christians adopt kids? Should someone be raised thinking it's not OK to marry someone of the same sex? Or to believe that people who do are going to be tortured for all eternity by an imaginary being which the kid has been raised to believe is real?

Children in need of adoption should go to homes that can provide them with love and attention. Pigeonholing whole groups of people is unconstructive. If a couple who happen to be gay can provide an orphaned child with a loving and stable home, who are you to complain? If a couple who happen to be conservative Christians can provide an orphaned child with a loving and stable home, who am I to complain?

Presume for a moment, that a lesbian couple has a child, whether through in-vitro fertilization, or cloning, or surrogate father, or whatever. Are you going to tell me that the state should take the child away from them, on the grounds that they are gay? What if one of the lesbian couple had a child from a previous relationship? Should she lose all right to contact with the child, solely due to the fact that she likes girls instead of boys? If not, how do you justify prohibiting them from adopting a child? Fact - children in children's homes are not living ''normal'' 1950's lives, they bounce from home to home. Stability in this situation is vastly more important than "normality".

Oh, and if you do think that it would be right to prohibit contact between gay persons and their children, would you also believe it right to prohibit contact between religious persons and their children? I mean, being religious is a lifestyle choice, and their parents are indoctrinating them in what they believe is right. It should be up to the children to choose their lifestyle.

You know, I've gone back and forth on this issue several times. I see some of the valid points from both sides. But I think I'm starting to stand more firmly on the side that a child is in the best situation possible when that child is in a household that has two loving and responsible parents who are involved in the child's welfare.

There is so much that a situation like this can provide that we should strive for that whenever adoptions are taking place.

if they should be allowed to marry, why should children be taught otherwise?

also, i have vriends who have been raised by same sex parents. they are some of the most healthy, functional, enlightened young people i've ever known. they recognize that the love their parents have is more important that their sexuality, and that they are in fact people too.

and who is to say that the parents can't fulfill the position of mother and father? single parents do it all the time. should they not be allowed to raise their own children, simply because there isn't a second parental figure? also, what of homosexula couples where one of the members already has a child, for whatever reason? should that first parent not be allowed to keep their child because they are now in love, and living, with someone of the same sex?

also, what you're saying is that no single person should be allowed to adopt, because there isn't an parental figure of the opposite sex. is that right?

Look, I'm not a bigot. And I'm not ignorant. I'm stating concern over kids being raised. I know a few gay people, but none of them have adopted kids. My parents divorced, so I know about broken families. I also know that while gay people don't do anything to hurt people, and that they're just as nice as anyone else, a lot of people believe what they're doing is morally wrong. So if it is, is it right to let them adopt kids.

You don't need to get insulting. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that, thats why I made this thread. To know opinion.

Look, I'm not a bigot. And I'm not ignorant. I'm stating concern over kids being raised. I know a few gay people, but none of them have adopted kids. My parents divorced, so I know about broken families. I also know that while gay people don't do anything to hurt people, and that they're just as nice as anyone else, a lot of people believe what they're doing is morally wrong. So if it is, is it right to let them adopt kids.

You don't need to get insulting. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that, thats why I made this thread. To know opinion.

Some people think that Catholics are morally wrong. Some people think that smokers are morally wrong. Some people think that people who drink alcohol are morally wrong.

See the problem when we mix our morals with someone else's life? I understand what you're trying to say but I'm trying to respond with why our own morals shouldn't be used in decisions such as these.

Look. It's generally accepted that you aren't "turned" gay. As long as they are loving parents, I see no reason a gay couple could not raise a child. Hell, it's got to be better than the institutionalized life of the unadopted.

I think it's criminal to not allow a happy couple to adopt a needy child.

I also know that while gay people don't do anything to hurt people, and that they're just as nice as anyone else, a lot of people believe what they're doing is morally wrong. So if it is, is it right to let them adopt kids.

A lot of people think that capitalism is "morally wrong". Should capitalists be allowed to adopt children?

I have no problem with this. It gets adoptable kids into loving homes. But I just worry how the neighborhood kids would react. My mother was a lesbian, lets just say I learned how to fight. Being from the midwest didn't help. Just think of Footloose x2. It got better later on as the kids realized I wasn't gay and didn't harass me as much and knew I wouldn't take their crap. I can say my experience has toughened me up quite a bit, I wouldn't want other kids going through this, but I love my mother even though I don't agree with her lifestyle. Who knows, maybe kids are more open these days.

Look, I'm not a bigot. And I'm not ignorant. I'm stating concern over kids being raised. I know a few gay people, but none of them have adopted kids. My parents divorced, so I know about broken families. I also know that while gay people don't do anything to hurt people, and that they're just as nice as anyone else, a lot of people believe what they're doing is morally wrong. So if it is, is it right to let them adopt kids.

You don't need to get insulting. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that, thats why I made this thread. To know opinion.
so because of alot of IGNORANT BIGOTS think being gay is morally wong, we should prevent gay people from adopting children

*paraphrase* "Gay people are inherently evil" - Roy Moore

so because there are people like that, we should listen to everything we say


hell why should we let KKK members have kids? or neo-nazis? or republicons?

i still think you are an ignorant bigot, and thats my opinion

Why should children not be 'taught' that it is alright for 2 people of the same sex to marry?

studies show children raised by a gay couple have more mental problems than those raised by a standard family.

however, the supply of normal families looking to adopt falls short of meeting demand by a very large amount

the choice is not between either a gay or straight family for a given child; the choice is between a gay family or no family

compair statistics of children raised in a gay household vs. spending their entire childhood in orphanages or foster homes; then you'll see how irresponsible it is to oppose same sex couple adoption

I have no problem with this. It gets adoptable kids into loving homes. But I just worry how the neighborhood kids would react. My mother was a lesbian, lets just say I learned how to fight. Being from the midwest didn't help. Just think of Footloose x2. It got better later on as the kids realized I wasn't gay and didn't harass me as much and knew I wouldn't take their crap. I can say my experience has toughened me up quite a bit, I wouldn't want other kids going through this, but I love my mother even though I don't agree with her lifestyle. Who knows, maybe kids are more open these days.
HELLO, viscious frigging circle

you prevent gay people from marrying you prevent them from adopting kids, you let the conservative christians sit around and teach kids gay people are evil and teach the kids to taunt and shun them. oh yeah, banning homosexuality will fix ignorance and biggotry :rolleyes:

I've heard a lot about gay people marrying each other, and states banning it or making it legal, and everyone arguing about it. But I've been thinking 'Hey, its their lives, let them do as they want. They aren't bothering me.' But if anything about the gay lifestyle should be discussed, it should be them adopting kids. Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right. What they do in their personal time is their business, but when they start raising kids, they're going too far. Now I know some people might think I'm being cruel or something, but is it right for them to raise kids to believe that what they're doing is right? Its like Nazi propaganda in the 30's. Kids should be raised in as normal a lifestyle as they can get, with a mother and a father. They should be raised with a chance to decide later in life what their lifestyle will be, not being raised thinking its ok to marry someone of the same sex. Thats like being raised thinking its alright to practice beastiality, just because you think the animal loves you.

Again, I'm not saying gay people shouldn't be able to be gay, or marry. I'm saying its wrong to raise children in such a lifestyle.

i just want to know what other people think.
What "gay lifestyle" are you talking about??

Check this out:

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/agenda.html

I'm somewhat tired of this hypocritical crap from those pretending to be ok with homosexuality when in truth they just pretend and in reality hate us for no other reason than being ignorant fucks!

studies show children raised by a gay couple have more mental problems than those raised by a standard family.
which can be blamed on NORMAL PEOPLE for teaching their kids to shun and hate homosexuals.

As long as they treat the kid(s) with respect then I don't have a problem with it. I bet many of you would be shocked at that....

I almost cannot beleive that you, Mr Pileon of all people, just said that.
I thought you were libertarian only in the economic sense.. Ah well, more power to you then.

Basically though, Blackledge, by your logic, is it also right for a straight couple to raise children if someone else finds that wrong? What even makes things 'right' or 'wrong'?

Sexuality is an impulse, an urge from within that dictates who it is that you are sexually attracted to. Choice has no part in the matter, although i have found that physical features are not always the only basis for whom I am sexually attracted to. Thus, 'indoctrination' is a load of crap- the kids would be gay or straight long before any parent mentioned anything on the matter.

As it stands, a near-poverty stricken, freaquently-drunk, gambling, promiscuous, racist, misogynist/(whatever a woman who hates men is) can adopt children. And yet a lovign, intelligent, mentally stable pair of men or women or excellent economic background cannot. Am I the only one with a problem with this?

As it also currently stands, if I two marry one of the sexes I am attracted to, then by god do I have a right to adopt a kid. But if I marry I guy that I love, then I will be burned alive before I can adopt someone?

so because of alot of IGNORANT BIGOTS think being gay is morally wong, we should prevent gay people from adopting children

*paraphrase* "Gay people are inherently evil" - Roy Moore

so because there are people like that, we should listen to everything we say


hell why should we let KKK members have kids? or neo-nazis? or republicons?

i still think you are an ignorant bigot, and thats my opinion

Relax. One can replace disinformation with information without getting personal. I'm on your side here, but there's no need to go too far.

studies show children raised by a gay couple have more mental problems than those raised by a standard family.

however, the supply of normal families looking to adopt falls short of meeting demand by a very large amount

the choice is not between either a gay or straight family for a given child; the choice is between a gay family or no family

compair statistics of children raised in a gay household vs. spending their entire childhood in orphanages or foster homes; then you'll see how irresponsible it is to oppose same sex couple adoption
Could you maybe like.. provide links to these "studies"? All I see is right-wing nazi propaganda pretending to be science.

studies show children raised by a gay couple have more mental problems than those raised by a standard family.

Care to cite those studies? I'm betting that their methodology was non-objective, also there is a higher percentage of hetero-families than gay families, it would stand to reason that a smaller number of aberrations would skew the mean gay family toward "more mental problems". I bet if you discount outliers on both sides, that the mean family whether gay or straight would be pretty indistinguishable.

But that's my guess, it's not backed up by anything - it just irritates me when people post about statistical studies without providing the studies, the methodology, and the NUMBERS!

I almost cannot beleive that you, Mr Pileon of all people, just said that. I thought you were libertarian only in the economic sense.. Ah well, more power to you then.

There ya have it then.....

You know I've heard completely conclusive studies too. They emphatically prove that straight couples adopting/having kids is completely damaging to the mental health and stabilty of said children. I also completely believe that heterosexuality is an abominably bad sin (though practical) because a book make 2000 years ago by people we know virtually nothign about told me to.....

which can be blamed on NORMAL PEOPLE for teaching their kids to shun and hate homosexuals.

That's not always true. A lot of those studies have shown that some of the problems that these children have results from sexual identification in the early teens. Not whether they are hetero or homo but rather the relational behavior in a hetero relationship. Some other studies have shown that these children typically have more questions about sexual relationships in general and feel more socially awkward when around peers. However, I don't think that have more questions about sexual relationships has to be a bad thing. In fact, I would stipulate that more questions can lead to safer and better long term relationships, if answers are provided in a positive and assuring manner. Just my opinion. The social awkwardness would be more difficult to counter but the bottom line there in my opinion is that every child in his transitional teen years has developmental awkwardness and feels that they are the only ones going through it.

Someone mentioned earlier that everyone accepts that homosexuality is genetic. I would counter that. There has never been any conclusive findings that this is a genetic trait. To my knowledge, no one has ever been able to find or isolate any gene or genetic trait that would predetermine if someone was going to be homo or heterosexual. That's not to say that it won't eventually be determined but to say that everyone accepts it is a fallacy. Perhaps the Human Genome Project might provide more credible answers to this but let's not put the cart before the horse just yet.

A couple years ago for an english class I wrote a paper on this very subject.

Enjoy.



Any Parents are Better Than None


In the year 1994 there were approximately 500,000 children in the United States adoption system waiting for families (McKelvey 9). The number of these lonely children who found families in 1974, the last year government statistics on adoption were collected, was 4%. There is a long-standing problem here; thousands of children, often abused or otherwise disadvantaged, need loving homes and are not getting them. The cause? There aren’t enough potential adoptive parents to meet the overwhelming need for them. Of course, any responsible person or couple who wishes to make the altruistic gesture of accepting one of these unfortunate children is given a chance to do so.
Wrong.
To become an adoptive parent, an individual must first be screened and licensed by the government, but one group is unfairly discriminated against throughout this process: the monogamously committed same-sex couple. Research shows that there is no long-term negative consequence of a child being raised by one or both homosexual parents (AAP 3), but somehow, those who oppose same sex couple adoption have been successful in hampering it, despite using arguments based on assumptions, prejudice, and irrelevant information.
One such opposing party is Family First, a conservative organization based in Lincoln, Nebraska. In a statement of policy found on the Family First website their opinion is presented clearly, “…social science data reveals that, regardless of claims to the contrary, there can be extremely detrimental consequences to placing a child in a home where both parents are the same sex.” Several supporting studies are cited for this conclusion, but many are overly general, or missing key pieces of information. For example, an April 2001 report by the American Sociological Review is mentioned, which reached the conclusion that 64% of children raised by same sex parents have considered homosexuality, while only 17% of the children of heterosexual parents have done the same (FF 2). Ok, lets hypothetically yield the ground that it is wrong to be open minded about ones sexuality… yes this does seem like quite a negative difference. But, according to S. Golombok, F Tasker, and C Murray in their 1997 article in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, as stated earlier, while more children raised by homosexual parents tend to consider same sex relationships, the percentage who actually claim to be gay are identical to those of traditional parenting (AAP 2). Obviously, these children may think about same sex relationships more, due to them being a part of daily life, but they are inheriting homosexuality no more than anyone else is.
Another point brought up by Family First: the supposed level of “negative” activities involved in the homosexual lifestyle. They cite a large number of grim statistics, such as: an A.P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg study found that 43% of white male homosexual men had over 500 sexual partners in their lifetime. Also on the theme of promiscuity, a study by M. Pollak claimed that, “Few homosexual relationships last longer than two years.” D. Island and P. Letellier report the incidence of abuse in gay relationships is twice that of standard relationships. A survey of lesbians published in the Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology reported that 75% had sought psychological help in their lifetime; it also found that 21% had thoughts of suicide and 30% consumed alcohol weekly (FF 3). Those are terrible qualities; I would hate to see the government entrust the care of a helpless child in an alcoholic or abusive spouse. It’s a good thing they don’t. That’s why potential adoptive parents apply for licenses in the first place, to prove their responsibility, and these rules apply to all potential parents, including heterosexuals.
Another point: these listed statistics are all very effective in Family First’s aim of causing the reader to dislike the average homosexual. However, the point relating these statistics to the adoption of children by same-sex couples has a small hole: those couples attempting to adopt are not average homosexuals. The homosexual culture is more openly sexual than the straight, thus the amount of commitment required for same-sex couples to desire a monogamous relationship, or marriage, or child, is very high, much higher than that for heterosexual relationships. According to an argument by Andrew Sullivan, in Denmark where same-sex marriage is universally legal, a much lower percentage of gay marriages occur than straight, however, their divorce rate is one fifth that of straight couples (Sullivan 62). This shows the average homosexual does not enter situations requiring commitment, but the minority that do, like those who attempt to adopt children together, are much more dedicated than heterosexual couples.
What about credible evidence supporting adoption by homosexual couples? The most prominent and controversial, a statement issued by the American Academy of Pediatrics in April of this year, claims, with the citation of over 30 studies and articles, “Children’s optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes” (AAP 2). It goes on to explain that homosexual parents have the same concerns and desires about parenthood as heterosexuals, such as finance, desire to nurture, time, love, and responsibility. Also, in the roles of mother and father, gay parents often perform as well as or even better than heterosexual parents in areas such as mental health, involvement in the child’s activities, and discipline (AAP 3). These starkly contrast the position of Family First, but with one major difference: while Family First lists evidence in the form of general statistics about the homosexual lifestyle, AAP uses specific, empirical data, gathered directly from families with same-sex parental figures.
There’s one final point to be made: let’s hypothetically throw out everything that has been said, and use the assumption that a child raised by a traditional family is better off than one raised by gay parents. You might think that this explains why gay couples should not be permitted to adopt, except you’d be overlooking one thing: The alternatives are not adoption by either a gay or straight couple, but adoption by a gay couple or no adoption at all. For, when law prevents a perfectly responsible and committed same sex couple from adopting, it is in reality denying this child a home and increasing the likelihood this child will never find one. This is much more damaging than the side effects of homosexual parents could ever be. It was reported that 36% of the homeless population of Minneapolis in 1989 were formerly in the foster care system. A follow up study found that one-third of un-adopted children grew up to have problems with drugs, alcohol, and criminal activity. Twenty four percent of the females surveyed reported inappropriate sexual contact in their foster home (Finch 56). Unfortunately, statistics in this area are thin, and it is difficult to directly compare children who go un-adopted to those taken in by same-sex couples. Still, it is clear, children who are not adopted are much worse off than those adopted by homosexual couples.
So, simple reasoning shows, the policy of denying adoption rights to homosexual couples, is based mainly on personal bias and misguided assumptions, while evidence collected by credible medical organizations indicates otherwise. But the true crime here is that every time a gay couple is denied the legal right to adopt a child, that child is denied the love and attention only committed parent figures can give, which he or she desperately needs. I issue a challenge to all those who still oppose adoption by homosexuals: find a four year old orphan who has never known a real home or family, but could have been adopted by a homosexual couple were it not legally prevented, and then explain to him he cannot have a family because, “Two mommies might be bad for you.” Well, what about no mommies?

Works Cited

Fanshel, Grundy, and Stephen Finch. Data Collection in Adoption and Foster Care.
Washington DC: Child Welfare League of America, 1990.

Stevens, and Carole McKelvy. Adoption Crisis. Golden: Fulcrum, 1994.

AAP. American Association of Pediatrics. 11 Nov. 2002
http://www.aap.org/policy/020008t.html.

FF. Family First. 11 Nov. 2002
http://www.familyfirst.org/capitolwatch/0402.pdf

Sullivan, Andrew. “Committed Couples Would Stabilize Society” Reading and Writing
Short Arguments. 4th ed. Ed. William Vesterman. New York: McGraw Hill, 2003.
61-63

Is Gays Adopting Kids right? Well as has already been said already Why not. 1 in 4/22% of families in the U.S. qualify as "normal" families. ie Mom,Dad 1.6 Kids. so wat about the other 77%?
Single parents, broken marriages, broken lives. People who are gay and straight come from these situations and Im always amazed when I hear some of the stories of abuse, alcoholism and other social ills that go on in some of these groups.
If a Gay man or a Lesbian Woman wants to why should they not adopt a kid. After all, these kids are in Orphanages and while they do get a certain amount of support in these institutions that support is nothing compared to the love of a parent. I would hope that when the time comes for me to decide if I want to have a Kid/adopt a kid that I will be able to give that child the love and support that all children need.
I accept Thread Six<which is the guy who set up this thread!!!> that there was no need to get personal. That's fair enough if I get personal I don't apologise because this thread is quite an emotive issue so it's only natural that people will get emotive and express their opinions.

The fact that in any way you would compare gays to Nazis is absolutely appaling and you should be extremely ashamed!!! What, do you really think that gays are pounding it into their kids all the time? You think that they are trying to make their kids gay, that nothing else will suffice for these parents? You need a reality check. And oh yeah, what would you rather have? A kid in an orphanage who thinks society hates him because no one will adopt him, or a kid living an awesome life with two people that care for him very much??? Your choice, any your path is the wrong one.

...
AAP. American Association of Pediatrics. 11 Nov. 2002
http://www.aap.org/policy/020008t.html.

FF. Family First. 11 Nov. 2002
http://www.familyfirst.org/capitolwatch/0402.pdf


Neither of these provide the information necessary to make a determination about their statistics, they don't provide the variation, the mean, nor five-quartiles. They didn't say whether they dropped outliers, or if they took the information en masse. They didn't provide the questions they used - in essence, they're PR and not useful for debate. Try again, sir.

Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right.

It's better than parents who indoctrinate their kids into believing it is wrong. Most gays are completely innoffensive, just like everyone else. There really is no good reason that children should be brought up to distrust or dislike them.

so because of alot of IGNORANT BIGOTS think being gay is morally wong, we should prevent gay people from adopting children

*paraphrase* "Gay people are inherently evil" - Roy Moore

so because there are people like that, we should listen to everything we say


hell why should we let KKK members have kids? or neo-nazis? or republicons?

i still think you are an ignorant bigot, and thats my opinion

i want it to be known that i belive that gay couples should be alowed to adopt
however i belive some people give the impression to be vary narrow minded about this whole topic as i can understand the other side of the coin.
also how can you cast such judgement on a person and label them as a "bigot" on the grounds of 1 statment*.


* please note i said people are giving the impression of a narrow mind not have 1
End rant

I'm against gay adoption because gay parents are very likely to try and make their children gay. I'm against straight adoption bcause straight parents are very likely to try and make their children straight.

Poeple try to force childern to join them early on in whatever, be it a church, organization (Boy scouts?), or in this example, homosexuality. Children should be able to make their desision on their own. But I don't know how to do that. All I know is, homosexual adoption not the solution. But niether is hetrosexual adoption.

I'm confusing myself.

I'm against gay adoption because gay parents are very likely to try and make their children gay. I'm against straight adoption bcause straight parents are very likely to try and make their children straight.

Poeple try to force childern to join them early on in whatever, be it a church, organization (Boy scouts?), or in this example, homosexuality. Children should be able to make their desision on their own. But I don't know how to do that. All I know is, homosexual adoption not the solution. But niether is hetrosexual adoption.

I'm confusing myself.
you are confusing me with the rambling

I'm against gay adoption because gay parents are very likely to try and make their children gay.

So, after twenty years of being uncomfortable with his/her sexuality, the kid will come out of the closet and say "Dad, Dad, I have something to tell you... I'm straight..."

:p

So, after twenty years of being uncomfortable with his/her sexuality, the kid will come out of the closet and say "Dad, Dad, I have something to tell you... I'm straight..."

:p

Well great, does this mean we have to suffer through another movie like The Bird Cage? Because that movie sucked.

i want it to be known that i belive that gay couples should be alowed to adopt
however i belive some people give the impression to be vary narrow minded about this whole topic as i can understand the other side of the coin.
also how can you cast such judgement on a person and label them as a "bigot" on the grounds of 1 statment*.


* please note i said people are giving the impression of a narrow mind not have 1
End rant
"im not against gay marriage, but should gay people be able to adopt kids"

false impression of tolerance and open mindedness

Maybe we should herd every child in the world onto one big uninhabited island, and let them duke it out for themselves without the threat of being "indoctrinated" into a lifestyle.

Gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, metrosexual . . whatever. Sexuality doesn't come into it when you're talking about the welfare of children.

Any parent, of any social or cultural standing, has some agenda that they want their child to think is right, no matter how wrong it is to punt your prejudices onto the next generation.

While I don't agree with the mud-slinging going on, I do want to know why this question was asked about gay parents only, and not about straight parents with a history of prejudicial behaviour also.

I'm wholeheartedly in favor of anyone that can provide a stable homelife being able to adopt a child or children. Whether they be gay, straight, or single.

I've lived with kids and their lesbian mom. They're growing up normal, in fact better than some other kids I've encountered in the schools. And they're NOT growing up thinking they have to be gay or anything of the sort. They know there are choices they can make and that people are different.

Adoption is based on what is best for the child. And parents are usually better than foster/orphanages for a child.

Maybe we should herd every child in the world onto one big uninhabited island, and let them duke it out for themselves without the threat of being "indoctrinated" into a lifestyle.

Gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, metrosexual . . whatever. Sexuality doesn't come into it when you're talking about the welfare of children.

Any parent, of any social or cultural standing, has some agenda that they want their child to think is right, no matter how wrong it is to punt your prejudices onto the next generation.

While I don't agree with the mud-slinging going on, I do want to know why this question was asked about gay parents only, and not about straight parents with a history of prejudicial behaviour also.

Great, now we're tacking on a remake of Lord of the Flies along with the Birdcage???

I figured I'd join in.

But my question does still stand, if the author of this thread cares to answer.

Maybe we should herd every child in the world onto one big uninhabited island, and let them duke it out for themselves without the threat of being "indoctrinated" into a lifestyle.

Wasn't there a japanize film about that? sorry rubbish speller

Wasn't there a japanize film about that? sorry rubbish speller

Lord of the Flies!!! Its a literary classic, or so my English teacher told me back in high school. Of course, this is the same teacher that forced us to read Les Miserables as well. Ugh...

Wasn't there a japanize film about that? sorry rubbish speller


Nah your thinking of Lord of the Flies :)
Anyone remember them killing that fat kid? ;)

As long as they treat the kid(s) with respect then I don't have a problem with it. I bet many of you would be shocked at that....

I'm not shocked. :)

Oh ... and I agree with Biff 100%.

Okie dokie ... gonna give you some case scenarios from my personal life.

Six friends: 3 male and 3 female. Names will not be used to protect the innocent.

Male friend 1: Raised in a two parent home, completed high school, went to college, graduated, is now married and has 2 kids of his own. He's a nice man, generous and kind, and works in construction. He is on the poor side, but his family lacks for nothing.

Male friend 2: Raised in a single parent home, completed high school, went into the Navy, is not married but has 1 child. He takes care of his child and is a decent man.

Male friend 3: Raised in a two parent home, didn't complete high school. He is now serving 25 years in Prison for stabbing a homeless man who asked him for change.

Female friend 1: Raised in a single parent home, completed high school, has nearly completed college. She is now married and has 2 children and is a good person. She works in real estate.

Female friend 2: Raised in a two parent home, completed high school, never went to college. She is now a heroine junkie with 3 kids and on welfare.

Female friend 3: Raised in a two parent home, completed high school, graduated college, completed post-graduate school. Is not married and does not have kids, but has a fiance and they will be married in 2 months.

Now ... here's the break down:

Male 1 = Homosexual male parents. He was adopted by them at age 4. He does not know his biological parents, nor does he have any desire to.

Male 2 = Heterosexual mother without partner. Naturally born to her. He has never known his father.

Male 3 = Heterosexual parents.

Female 1 = Homosexual male parent. Biologically born to her homosexual mother who died when she was 2.

Female 2 = Heterosexual parents. Father molested her repeatedly between the ages of 4 and 12.

Female 3 = Heterosexual parents.

It's been my experience that the sexual orientation of the parents really doesn't matter. As long as they're loving and kind and are attentive parents. I've seen good people grow of homosexual parentage and bad people as well. I have seen both from heterosexual parentage.

Never forget: Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Rev. Jim Jones, Jerry Falwell, , Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and George W. Bush all have heterosexual parents.

If the envirenment you are raised in were to determin youre sexual orentation than there woulden't be homosexuals.

If the envirenment you are raised in were to determin youre sexual orentation than there woulden't be homosexuals.

If the enviornment you are raised in determened your religious preference, then almost everyone would be Christian..

I've heard a lot about gay people marrying each other, and states banning it or making it legal, and everyone arguing about it. But I've been thinking 'Hey, its their lives, let them do as they want. They aren't bothering me.' But if anything about the gay lifestyle should be discussed, it should be them adopting kids.
Which, if you stick to your principles, still doesn't bother you.

Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right. What they do in their personal time is their business, but when they start raising kids, they're going too far. Now I know some people might think I'm being cruel or something, but is it right for them to raise kids to believe that what they're doing is right? Its like Nazi propaganda in the 30's.
There is no more indoctorination there than in any other parent. "What they do in their personal time" is, in this case, have a relationship--exactly what you would expect any parents to do. As for raising their kids to believe it's right; that's a far better option than having parents who raise their kids to believe it's "unnatural," in spite of the fact that approximately a quarter of known animal species do it. Plus, you don't get the massive trauma of when the kid has to tell his parents that he has a sexual orientation that the parents believe God hates.

Kids should be raised in as normal a lifestyle as they can get, with a mother and a father. They should be raised with a chance to decide later in life what their lifestyle will be, not being raised thinking its ok to marry someone of the same sex. Thats like being raised thinking its alright to practice beastiality, just because you think the animal loves you.
There are so many things wrong with this paragraph, it's amazing. First off, being raised by a homosexual couple is far more "normal" in terms of child development than being raised by...no, I won't list all the other options, others already have. Second, and this may come as a shocker, but nobody gets to "decide" what orientation they are. I certainly never got to. I take it you're heterosexual--do you remember the day you said to yourself, "well, you know, I don't really care either way, but I guess I'll be heterosexual?" The scientific community has pretty much accepted that sexuality is decided through a combination of genetic and environmental factors, the majority of which occur IN THE WOMB. Choice has nothing to do with it. And then, even if it was a choice, I fail to see how being taught that homosexual marriage was acceptable would destroy the ability to choose; you would be presenting two equal sides, thus making choice harder, in fact. Lastly, bestiality is a red herring. Homosexuality involves consenting adults, else it's not legal. Same with heterosexuality. Bestiality does not, as animals cannot legally give consent. Noone in the gay rights movement is asking for anything involving those who cannot give consent.

Again, I'm not saying gay people shouldn't be able to be gay, or marry. I'm saying its wrong to raise children in such a lifestyle.
Shouldn't "be able to be gay?" As though anything can stop them from being oriented the way they are. I think you meant "practice homosexuality." Wording like that is part of what makes people think you're bigoted. Me, I figure you're just misinformed. There is no evidence from objective sources that has concluded that raising kids in homosexual families is a bad idea; one look at the sponsorship of most of the "studies" claiming that tells you that offhand.

I've heard a lot about gay people marrying each other, and states banning it or making it legal, and everyone arguing about it. But I've been thinking 'Hey, its their lives, let them do as they want. They aren't bothering me.' But if anything about the gay lifestyle should be discussed, it should be them adopting kids. Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right. What they do in their personal time is their business, but when they start raising kids, they're going too far. Now I know some people might think I'm being cruel or something, but is it right for them to raise kids to believe that what they're doing is right? Its like Nazi propaganda in the 30's. Kids should be raised in as normal a lifestyle as they can get, with a mother and a father. They should be raised with a chance to decide later in life what their lifestyle will be, not being raised thinking its ok to marry someone of the same sex. Thats like being raised thinking its alright to practice beastiality, just because you think the animal loves you.

Again, I'm not saying gay people shouldn't be able to be gay, or marry. I'm saying its wrong to raise children in such a lifestyle.

i just want to know what other people think.

replace "gays" with "religious persons," and all references to marrying the same gender with marrying persons suffering from religious addiction, and you have my feelings exactly.

replace "gays" with "religious persons," and all references to marrying the same gender with marrying persons suffering from religious addiction, and you have my feelings exactly.

What do you mean by "religious addiction"?

Perhaps: "Addiction to the emotional state (ie. feelings of security and/or superiority/empowerment) engendered by the beliefs and/or practices generally associated with religions."

Is that it?

Wasn't there a japanize film about that? sorry rubbish speller

Battle Royale. Great film. Great soundtrack, too.

Think about it, they are raising kids and indoctrinating them into believing that it is right.Sounds fine to me. Seeing as how "it" is right.

... but is it right for them to raise kids to believe that what they're doing is right? Its like Nazi propaganda in the 30's.No, it's like what parents do. Society would be in big trouble if parents did not teach their kids their values. Which is not to say that the kids must necessarily accept those values.

Kids should be raised in as normal a lifestyle as they can get, with a mother and a father.Why? What is the importance of normal? What is the big deal about being different? Kids should be raised in as good an environment as they can get.

They should be raised with a chance to decide later in life what their lifestyle will be,Sounds about right to me. How does having gay parents prevent this?

not being raised thinking its ok to marry someone of the same sex.Thinking it's ok to marry someone of the same sex is a lifestyle? And for that matter, they can still decide otherwise later in life.

I think several people have raised the key issue, which is examining, for the child, the alternatives to adoption by a same-sex couple for a child that will not be raised by his/her biological parents.

The total list of options is:
Adoption by mixed-sex couple
Adoption by same-sex couple (male or female)
Adoption by single heterosexual parent (male or female)
Adoption by single homosexual parent (male or female)
Long-term foster care
Long-term orphanage care
Living on the streets
(For unborn children) Abortion

This list happens to be in order of preference, according to my understanding of what is best for a child. Many of you will disagree with the order of my list, but the basic principle is that, having made such a list, in some order, you then try to place the child as far up the list as possible. I am assuming that any prospective adoptive parents will be carefully scrutinized by the State for suitability, but given that I see any form of adoption as preferable to an orphanage, then same-sex couples MUST be allowed to adopt.

Please tell me of other options I haven't considered.

You may consider me a bigot, if you so choose. I believe that sexual orientation is not a choice, but that sexual lifestyle is.

Look, I'm not a bigot. And I'm not ignorant. I'm stating concern over kids being raised. I know a few gay people, but none of them have adopted kids. My parents divorced, so I know about broken families. I also know that while gay people don't do anything to hurt people, and that they're just as nice as anyone else, a lot of people believe what they're doing is morally wrong. So if it is, is it right to let them adopt kids.

You don't need to get insulting. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that, thats why I made this thread. To know opinion.

Actually - since you are "holding blindly to a particular creed" (i.e. that homosexuals shouldn't have children... and yet you fail to give any evidence of why this is bad), you are, by definition, a bigot.

Further - since you seem to have done no serious research of this matter, that means you lack knowledge on this particular topic. By definition, once again, you ARE ignorant.

I have known gay couples with children. The children have been fine. Most have still turned out straight, although they are usually more tolerant of alternative lifestyle choices than some other people might be.

Bear in mind please, that most child abuse is inflicted by the family, on a child of the same sex, by a 'HETEROSEXUAL' parent.

So, using your logic, all straight couples should lose the right to raise children, yes?

Loving parents should be able to adopt children without homes so long as they can provide for those children.

Now, for the "Teh family is one man, one woman, 2.5 kids and a dog!!!!" attitude - understand that your idea of the family is non-traditional. In fact, it is relatively new. Up until around the 1950's kids were not raised just by their parents, they were raised by mother, father, aunts, uncles, grandparents, family friends, and older siblings who all lived in the same area. When people started moving to the modern idea of the "nuclear family," there were quite a bit of predictions that civilization would end (sound familiar?).

The point is that children should not be raised by just two people, they should have many adult influences in their lives. If a homosexual couple raises a heterosexual kid and that kid has never really had close access to a heterosexual adult, of course that kid will be confused (just like a homosexual child who never is around homosexuals is confused when they reach puberty). However, as long as *any* parents make sure that their child is exposed to male and female influences - anything you see wrong with having two same-sex parents will be alleviated. If the child is being raised by a lesbian couple, it should have a grandfather/uncle/male friend of one of the mothers that it is close to and vice versa for a child being raised by a male couple.

As long as they treat the kid(s) with respect then I don't have a problem with it. I bet many of you would be shocked at that....

Damn it Biff, Just when I can write you off as a nut job Liberterian, you have to say something smart. ;)

Carry on!

I think there is nothing wrong with Gay couples adopting children. It's already legal in some countries, such as the Netherlands. It's been shown that the kids don't end up being more likely to be gay than anyone else. The only real difference is that they tend not to be bigots, they tend not to think that there is anything wrong with being gay. I think that's a fine thing.

(Not to say that all straight people or people brought up by straight couples are bigots. I'm not a bigot!)

As long as they treat the kid(s) with respect then I don't have a problem with it. I bet many of you would be shocked at that....
Wow! I can't believe it's not a Republican!

;)

anyone can make their own children but they do actual background checks on people who want to adopt. they try very hard to make sure that no child molestor/promiscuous/ unstable person gets to adopt. its not perfect by any means but they do make a big effort.

this doesnt mean that a gay male couple cant find a surrogate mother to bear the child of one of them. thats not adoption.
or that a lesbian couple cant do artificial insemination.

gay people HAVE CHILDREN. they do as good or bad a job of raising them as any other demographic group.

to disallow gay adoption is actually BAD FOR CHILDREN.

why?

it means that the non biological parent in a gay couple with a child can't adopt "his/her" child. example. a lesbian couple has a baby, that baby is the legal child of the woman who bore it. the other woman has no legal rights until she adopts the child. if she is disallowed THEN what? if the bio mom dies, the childs other parent will be cut off from her child. if the couple breaks up the non bio parent can be disallowed any rights to see the child she has raised. do i really need to say that this would be bad for the child involved?

we need to allow gay adoption as a means of protecting children and strengthening families.