NationStates Jolt Archive

Jeb Bush and the Florida legislature need to get over themselves and realize they don't own their citizens. We all knew when this law went through that it was unconstitutional - and that poor woman (if she can really feel anything) has just suffered more because of their idiocy. And her husband has suffered as well.

For God's sake, just let the woman die!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/23/shiavo.ap/index.html

Or maybe everyone here thinks it is fine for a woman to be forced to undergo medical treatment that she herself did not want just because she can't say so now?

Its passive Euthanasia to kill a woman like this. Passive Euthanasia is legal, but first unless she hasa will that says others wise must prove that there are no ordinary measures left.
Ordinary measures are things that have a reasonable chance of hope. Or benefits ourtweight burdens.
Exordinary are ones with little hope; benefits are less than burdens.

Husbands do have a lot more power than families since they are united and given away.

Or maybe everyone here thinks it is fine for a woman to be forced to undergo medical treatment that she herself did not want just because she can't say so now?
It might be some feel it unethical to allow her husband to prevent her from getting the treatment she desires? The case is not really a clear cut one as to the facts. No one can authoritatively say what her wishes are. Excuse me, many people have authoritatively said what her wishes are but an ovjective observer knowing the facts cannot.

It might be some feel it unethical to allow her husband to prevent her from getting the treatment she desires? The case is not really a clear cut one as to the facts. No one can authoritatively say what her wishes are. Excuse me, many people have authoritatively said what her wishes are but an ovjective observer knowing the facts cannot.

When there is no clear-cut will, the husband is supposed to be the one who determines her wishes - that is part of being married. (Not to mention, it is part of Florida state law - at least according to the article). Either way, there is much more reason to trust that her husband knows her wishes than to think that Jeb Bush, who never met her, does.

In addition, it is highly unlikely that a man who spent years shuttling her around to doctors all over the country in hopes that he could find a treatment that would work is lying when he says that she would not have wanted to live if she could only do so on a feeding tube.

When there is no clear-cut will, the husband is supposed to be the one who determines her wishes - that is part of being married. (Not to mention, it is part of Florida state law - at least according to the article). Either way, there is much more reason to trust that her husband knows her wishes than to think that Jeb Bush, who never met her, does.

In addition, it is highly unlikely that a man who spent years shuttling her around to doctors all over the country in hopes that he could find a treatment that would work is lying when he says that she would not have wanted to live if she could only do so on a feeding tube.What, now you want to talk about the law? Please see what "facts" you argued that I replied to.

"Dear Florida, please allow Michael Schiavo to finish off his wife, so that he can finally live legally with the woman he's been sleeping with while his wife is in a hospital."

Is that the title you intended for the thread?

14 years is long enough for a person to remain in a vegetative state in my book(and i don't mean florida). i agree its time to let her rest in peace, and if her husband has moved on a found a new life partner after seeing his wife effectively dead for more than half of their adult lives i'm disinclined to judge him. euthanasia must be allowed in a society in which the ability to prolong the natural process of dying is as advance as ours. at some point prolonging life without limit becomes an abomination, a macabre game of technological acheivement at the expense of humanity.

"Dear Florida, please allow Michael Schiavo to finish off his wife, so that he can finally live legally with the woman he's been sleeping with while his wife is in a hospital."

Is that the title you intended for the thread?

Wow, someone's in a bad mood

"Dear Florida, please allow Michael Schiavo to finish off his wife, so that he can finally live legally with the woman he's been sleeping with while his wife is in a hospital."

I wonder how Michael Schiavo would respond to that?

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to pass judgement.

What if it was your wife who had been a vegetable for 14 years?

Can you fathom the pain this man has gone through???

Discuss euthanasia all you want, but if you're gonna throw out bullshit like "he just wants to finish her off" then you lost all credibility.

I wonder how Michael Schiavo would respond to that?

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to pass judgement.

What if it was your wife who had been a vegetable for 14 years?

Can you fathom the pain this man has gone through???

Discuss euthanasia all you want, but if you're gonna throw out bullshit like "he just wants to finish her off" then you lost all credibility.
What makes you think he doesn't want to finish her off? After all, he can't marry the woman he's been having kids with (even though he IS married to Terri Schiavo) until Terri is out of the picture...he refuses to divorce Terri and let her parents take care of her...and then there's the little matter of the settlement money he got because of her case, which comes with the condition that it is meant for her medical care, but as soon as she dies, he can keep the rest to do what he pleases.

If he really cared about Terri, he would not be sleeping around (after all, he IS still married to her) or he would divorce her and let her parents take care of her.

14 years is long enough for a person to remain in a vegetative state in my book(and i don't mean florida). i agree its time to let her rest in peace, and if her husband has moved on a found a new life partner after seeing his wife effectively dead for more than half of their adult lives i'm disinclined to judge him. euthanasia must be allowed in a society in which the ability to prolong the natural process of dying is as advance as ours. at some point prolonging life without limit becomes an abomination, a macabre game of technological acheivement at the expense of humanity.

I also have to wonder...and I do not mean this to come off bad in any way, if her spirit is even with her body anymore. Even if it is, fourteen years of being connected yet permanently unable to interface with the body (and through it the world) sounds like a definition of a living hell.

This is one of the reasons why, as soon as it becomes reasonable, I intend to make out a living will. :-/

I would still vote For George Bush &
Jeb Bush but

the euthanasia dying with dignity law issue
should be made legal.

I passed it into law for Santa- Nita,
I will pass it into law for Havaii.
I will pass it into law for Heck Hell.

What makes you think he doesn't want to finish her off? After all, he can't marry the woman he's been having kids with (even though he IS married to Terri Schiavo) until Terri is out of the picture...he refuses to divorce Terri and let her parents take care of her...and then there's the little matter of the settlement money he got because of her case, which comes with the condition that it is meant for her medical care, but as soon as she dies, he can keep the rest to do what he pleases.

If he really cared about Terri, he would not be sleeping around (after all, he IS still married to her) or he would divorce her and let her parents take care of her.

All I will say is, "Put yourself in his place."

Imagine if your wife was a vegetable for 14 years.

I've been watching this case for years now, and the info on the news link is incomplete.

The husband, Michael, is suspected of long-term spousal abuse (many unexplained injuries to the wife over several years consistant with being beaten regularly) and may well have caused the injury that put her in her present state. Additionally, the parents have video of her seeing and reacting to her Mother's arrival and responding to questions. (as I recall) These are among the reasons why the parents are fighting so vehemently. She breathes unassisted and her heart beats on it's own. The horror of being starved to death as euthanasia is what sticks in most dissenter's craw. Many weeks of slow, agonizing death is the issue. Either have the cojones to allow painless euthanasia for the poor lady, or leave her be.

It's simply a little too convenient for the husband to have final say over whether she lives to tell her story.

Oh, and certainly the Governor (of Florida, no less) being named Bush has nothing to do with some of the reaction out there, eh?

What makes you think he doesn't want to finish her off? After all, he can't marry the woman he's been having kids with (even though he IS married to Terri Schiavo) until Terri is out of the picture...he refuses to divorce Terri and let her parents take care of her...and then there's the little matter of the settlement money he got because of her case, which comes with the condition that it is meant for her medical care, but as soon as she dies, he can keep the rest to do what he pleases.

If he really cared about Terri, he would not be sleeping around (after all, he IS still married to her) or he would divorce her and let her parents take care of her.

My, we sure have a lot of faith in humanity today have we?

If he really cared about Terri, he would not be sleeping around (after all, he IS still married to her) or he would divorce her and let her parents take care of her.

I don't know about anyone else, but if I had been in a vegetative state for 14 years, and only one doctor out of 10 said there was even a billion to one chance of me coming out of it - I would want my husband to find someone else.

And if my parents were fighting to leave me on life support just because they can't let go of me, I definitely would not want him to leave me in their care. The fact that he is now with another woman does not mean he loves Terri any less - and when you love someone, you want to see their wishes carried out.


The husband, Michael, is suspected of long-term spousal abuse (many unexplained injuries to the wife over several years consistant with being beaten regularly) and may well have caused the injury that put her in her present state.

All the sources I have seen state that her present state is due to a condition that went undiagnosed and resulted in a severe vegetative state. Also, the sources I have seen have only the parents making accusations against Michael, while everyone else says they were a loving couple.

Additionally, the parents have video of her seeing and reacting to her Mother's arrival and responding to questions. (as I recall)

The parents have video of her responding to them putting pressure on her hand by closing the hand. That sounds like reflexes to me. Look, nearly every doctor she has seen (all over the country, no less) has said that there is nothing that can be done for her.

These are among the reasons why the parents are fighting so vehemently.

Yes, they don't want to believe the doctors because they can't let their child go. Sad, but it's their problem, not hers.

It's simply a little too convenient for the husband to have final say over whether she lives to tell her story.

You're right. From now on we will let the governor of the state make medical decisions for every incapacitated person - instead of letting their spouse make the decisions. After all, it's not like they gave their spouse that responsibility when they got married, now is it?

Oh, and certainly the Governor (of Florida, no less) being named Bush has nothing to do with some of the reaction out there, eh?

I don't care if his name is Jesus Christ - the government has no business making medical decisions for someone with a next-of-kin who can make those decisions themselves.

You may be right - her husband may be the antichrist. But Terri obviously loved and trusted him enough to marry him and give him this responsibilty. If she told anyone her wishes, it would've been her husband. And the very fact that he hasn't just divorced her and left her to someone else speaks in his favor.

This is yet another example of why it is so important to make out a will (or better yet, a living trust if married). Sure, it costs a fair chunk of money, and it's uncomfortable to talk about, but here's an example of a possible alternative...

------------------
All Praise and Hail Her Benevolent Majesty

Here's a site that tells about her condition. (http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/Sociology/nobodyhome.htm)

14 years is long enough for a person to remain in a vegetative state in my book(and i don't mean florida). i agree its time to let her rest in peace, and if her husband has moved on a found a new life partner after seeing his wife effectively dead for more than half of their adult lives i'm disinclined to judge him. euthanasia must be allowed in a society in which the ability to prolong the natural process of dying is as advance as ours. at some point prolonging life without limit becomes an abomination, a macabre game of technological acheivement at the expense of humanity.
Unless you have Whole brain death you aren't legally dead. You can't allow someone dead to die because they are already dead. There would be no dispute if this was the case.
If she is in a coma she has little chance of surviving but PVS has sone chance.
Comatose people are unconscious but asleep.
Persistant vegetative State are unconscious but awake.
Its based on the brain damage one recieves due to lack of oxygen or more.

PVS can breath normally so they aren't as bad off as comatose ones.

Those with PVS live longer than those stuck in a coma because the brain stem of coma people fubctions poorly.

Neither is "dead and has been dead, and they are keeping her alive artificially."You can't be both. If she was really dead, then the machines may be keeping some of her body functions going but would not keep her alive.
However, in this case that only is a argument against comatose not PVS.

Unless you have Whole brain death you aren't legally dead. You can't allow someone dead to die because they are already dead. There would be no dispute if this was the case.
If she is in a coma she has little chance of surviving but PVS has sone chance.
Coma people are unconscious but asleep.
PVS is unconscious but awake.
Its based on the brain damage one recieves due to lack of oxygen or more.

PVS can breath normally so they aren't as bad off as comatose ones.

PVS only occurs when parts of the brain are damaged beyond repair.

So she has no chance of ever waking up.

if you knew now that you would have to spend DECADES the way this poor woman is being forced to, you would tell your family right now to just let you die.

shes not retarded, shes not going to come out of it. the kind thing to do is just remove the tubes and let her die.

if you knew now that you would have to spend DECADES the way this poor woman is being forced to, you would tell your family right now to just let you die.

shes not retarded, shes not going to come out of it. the kind thing to do is just remove the tubes and let her die.
The feeding tubes? You wish to starve her?

I don't know about anyone else, but if I had been in a vegetative state for 14 years, and only one doctor out of 10 said there was even a billion to one chance of me coming out of it - I would want my husband to find someone else.

And if my parents were fighting to leave me on life support just because they can't let go of me, I definitely would not want him to leave me in their care. The fact that he is now with another woman does not mean he loves Terri any less - and when you love someone, you want to see their wishes carried out.




All the sources I have seen state that her present state is due to a condition that went undiagnosed and resulted in a severe vegetative state. Also, the sources I have seen have only the parents making accusations against Michael, while everyone else says they were a loving couple.



The parents have video of her responding to them putting pressure on her hand by closing the hand. That sounds like reflexes to me. Look, nearly every doctor she has seen (all over the country, no less) has said that there is nothing that can be done for her.



Yes, they don't want to believe the doctors because they can't let their child go. Sad, but it's their problem, not hers.



You're right. From now on we will let the governor of the state make medical decisions for every incapacitated person - instead of letting their spouse make the decisions. After all, it's not like they gave their spouse that responsibility when they got married, now is it?



I don't care if his name is Jesus Christ - the government has no business making medical decisions for someone with a next-of-kin who can make those decisions themselves.

You may be right - her husband may be the antichrist. But Terri obviously loved and trusted him enough to marry him and give him this responsibilty. If she told anyone her wishes, it would've been her husband. And the very fact that he hasn't just divorced her and left her to someone else speaks in his favor.

Where is all of your proof about her condition? She is able to open her eyes, smile when her parents are there, and by all accounts is conscious. But her husband wants to remove the feeding tube. Do you know what it's like to die of dehydration. It is terrible, especially when the vomitting begins. Some doctors said she can't be saved, others (not a few) have said they should try to rehab her.

One of the reasons he wants her dead. (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0347/hentoff.php)

She is not braindead, she is a conscious human being, just disabled.

Some chance of what?! She's braindead, her brain is trashed, she'll never have more than the intellect of an infant.

14 years people.

14 years like that...the doctors all admitted it was hopeless long ago...yet the religious right constantly spouts how she might just snap out of it and her brain will just fix itself, the damage caused by oxygen loss.

She died a long time ago.

Anyways, although I doubt it, she might still feel pain, so taking out the feeding tube is silly. If she is to die completely, then do so quickly with chemicals. Yet that falls under euthanasia, which is controversial enough, whereas removing a feeding tube falls under "refusing extraneous treatment" a long-protected right. Eh, the silly compromises fought out between the religious right and secular liberal America.

She is not braindead, she is a conscious human being, just disabled.

How "disabled" do you have to be before you are braindead?!

Jeb Bush and the Florida legislature need to get over themselves and realize they don't own their citizens. We all knew when this law went through that it was unconstitutional - and that poor woman (if she can really feel anything) has just suffered more because of their idiocy. And her husband has suffered as well.

For God's sake, just let the woman die!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/23/shiavo.ap/index.html


She has consciousness, and you want her to die. Her husband wants her dead so he can take the money and marry his new partner. Maybe if he hadn't of caused the head injuries to her, this would never have happened.
If you don't think she is just a little bit conscious, just look at the video's from this website.

Terri's fighting!! (http://www.terrisfight.org/)

A question for you. If you were in her state of being, would you want to be killed by someone who doesn't love you anymore, even if you have a slim chance of recovering?

Did you ever see the movie: "Johnny Got His Gun.", you know the movie that was used in Metallicas' video, "One". They thought he was a vegetable too but, remember when the doctor realized he was not.

Where is all of your proof about her condition? She is able to open her eyes, smile when her parents are there, and by all accounts is conscious.

No, she is in a persistant vegetative state. Her brain stem (the part of your brain that controls reflexive actions, breathing, etc.) is working, but the part of her brain that controls all else (memory, thought, etc.) is not. It's kind of like a lobotomy, only worse.

But her husband wants to remove the feeding tube.

Her husband does not want to see her live a life that she most likely told him she didn't want to.

Do you know what it's like to die of dehydration. It is terrible, especially when the vomitting begins.

Do you know how many people don't want to live if they can only be kept alive by machines?

Some doctors said she can't be saved, others (not a few) have said they should try to rehab her.

Actually, it is a few - and only one of them a neurologist that would actually have any idea about her present condition anyways. The man flew her around the country to different specialists trying to get her treatment for years - and everything they tried was a bust. There is no more that doctors can do for her.

One of the reasons he wants her dead. (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0347/hentoff.php)

All of that is pure speculation.

She is not braindead, she is a conscious human being, just disabled.

She is not braindead, but she is not "a conscious human being." As people have described, she is breathing and her reflexes work. She can smile, grunt, burp, or fart - but these are all reflexive actions. They happen just as often when no one is in the room as they do when her parents are there. If I am watching an ameoba and I say "go left" and it does, but it also does so 50% of the time when I don't say anything, does that make it conscious?

Some chance of what?! She's braindead, her brain is trashed, she'll never have more than the intellect of an infant.

14 years people.

14 years like that...the doctors all admitted it was hopeless long ago...yet the religious right constantly spouts how she might just snap out of it and her brain will just fix itself, the damage caused by oxygen loss.

She died a long time ago.

Anyways, although I doubt it, she might still feel pain, so taking out the feeding tube is silly. If she is to die completely, then do so quickly with chemicals. Yet that falls under euthanasia, which is controversial enough, whereas removing a feeding tube falls under "refusing extraneous treatment" a long-protected right. Eh, the silly compromises fought out between the religious right and secular liberal America.

Anyways, how "disabled" do you have to be before you are braindead?

I'm sorry legally she is not brain dead I just said so. I am taking Social ethics and in the Euthanasia chapter. In it is describes the lagel defination of Brain dead:
The criteria determined that someone sgould be considered dead if she or he has permanently lost all detectable brain function. This meant that if there was some unconscious brain function, for example, or if the condition was temporary, then the individual would not be considered dead. Thus, various tests of reflex and responsiveness were required to determine whether an individual had sustained a permanent and total loss of all brain function.

So PVS has gag reflex and other reflexes preventing those to declare her dead legally. The woman in question has PVS thus she can't be declared dead.
Comatose people...not so much.

Some chance of what?! She's braindead, her brain is trashed, she'll never have more than the intellect of an infant.


How "disabled" do you have to be before you are braindead?!

Braindead means that there is no consciousness. Say a mentally retarded child is born, and they never get above the intellect of an infant, should you just kill them? Wow so you advocate eugenics for disabled people?

Her husband stopped the physical therapy back in 91 which could have helped her greatly by now. Why did her husband do this if he loved her so much? Many doctors believe that therapy now could still help her greatly.

She has consciousness, and you want her to die. Her husband wants her dead so he can take the money and marry his new partner. Maybe if he hadn't of caused the head injuries to her, this would never have happened.
If you don't think she is just a little bit conscious, just look at the video's from this website.

Are you certain she is conscious? You provide an obviously biased website ("LOOK! She twitched!" while ignoring all the rest of the footage of her just sitting still, drool leaking out her mouth), but ignore the opinions of doctors.

A question for you. If you were in her state of being, would you want to be killed by someone who doesn't love you anymore, even if you have a slim chance of recovering?

If I was in Terri's case, I wouldn't care what happened, because I would be BRAINDEAD and wouldn't be thinking at all.

Did you ever see the movie: "Johnny Got His Gun.", you know the movie that was used in Metallicas' video, "One". They thought he was a vegetable too but, remember when the doctor realized he was not.

No I haven't...but really, what are the odds of Terri's damaged brain just fixing itself?

Some chance of what?! She's braindead, her brain is trashed, she'll never have more than the intellect of an infant.
(snip)
How "disabled" do you have to be before you are braindead?!
This is very disturbing, and I cant really believe you feel this way.
If she has any intellect at all, she is not brain dead. Your statement leads one to believe that you are advocating killing any and all people who have intellects of infants.

Disability and braindead, while not mutually exclusive, really are 2 different animals.

I noticed a few people wondering why he doesn't just divorcer her.

Would it even be legally possible for him to divorcer her without her consent?

She has consciousness, and you want her to die.

She has lower brain function, but no higher brain function. The person to whom she gave the responsibility of making decisions for her should she become incapacitated says that she did not want to live if her only chance of living was on machines - and there is no reason to disbelieve him. This is especially true since he flew her around the country to specialists trying to get her any treatment they offered in the beginning.

Her husband wants her dead so he can take the money and marry his new partner.

Do you know how much money it costs to put someone in constant care? They didn't get *that* hight of a malpractice judgement. The idea that much of that money is left is utter bull.

Maybe if he hadn't of caused the head injuries to her, this would never have happened.

There is no conclusive evidence of that.

If you don't think she is just a little bit conscious, just look at the video's from this website.

Terri's fighting!! (http://www.terrisfight.org/)

Saw them. All of that can be due to brain stem function.

A question for you. If you were in her state of being, would you want to be killed by someone who doesn't love you anymore, even if you have a slim chance of recovering?

Let me ask you a question, if you loved someone enough to marry them and tell them your wishes for what to do in this situation - wouldn't you want them to fight for your rights?

Did you ever see the movie: "Johnny Got His Gun.", you know the movie that was used in Metallicas' video, "One". They thought he was a vegetable too but, remember when the doctor realized he was not.

Yeah, and I also remember he was tapping out the morse code for "kill me." Watch the video you want to use as evidence before you use it.

This is very disturbing, and I cant really believe you feel this way.
If she has any intellect at all, she is not brain dead. Your statement leads one to believe that you are advocating killing any and all people who have intellects of infants.

Disability and braindead, while not mutually exclusive, really are 2 different animals.

Though I do think she is technically brain dead and should be allowed to die, I do agree with your sentiments here. Disability and braindead are not the same thing.

Braindead means that there is no consciousness. Say a mentally retarded child is born, and they never get above the intellect of an infant, should you just kill them? Wow so you advocate eugenics for disabled people?

There is a difference between retarded and PVS (but you're right, I was blurring the term braindead, which means complete loss of cerebral function, my error.)

I do not advocate eugenics for disabled people at all. But for vegetables? They're not human anymore, IMO, and you can dispute this all you want, but I believe when a person stops thinking, they stop being human.

More than that though, I just support the right to manage your own life. Would you like to be kept alive in Terri's state, should something like this happen to you? You as a person wouldn't care by that point (since you stopped thinking) but if it was me, I would wish to put to death out of concern for family. Can you imagine what the husband has gone through, 14 years of this??

Her husband stopped the physical therapy back in 91 which could have helped her greatly by now. Why did her husband do this if he loved her so much? Many doctors believe that therapy now could still help her greatly.

Physical therapy? I thought it was her brain that was *broke*.

Are you certain she is conscious? You provide an obviously biased website ("LOOK! She twitched!" while ignoring all the rest of the footage of her just sitting still, drool leaking out her mouth), but ignore the opinions of doctors.



If I was in Terri's case, I wouldn't care what happened, because I would be BRAINDEAD and wouldn't be thinking at all.



No I haven't...but really, what are the odds of Terri's damaged brain just fixing itself?

No no no, you are brain damaged not brain dead big difference. And I'll have you know there are many fine peoole who are brain damaged and go on to live wonderful full lives. Granted she was a lucky one, being a genuis before the accident, so she stayed above average intellect but nevertheless she wasn't as smart as she could have been.
Remember always buckle up your children under 3 lol. You vould save a genuis :)

So seeing as you aren't brain dead in Teri's case, yes you might have a opinion. Granted, you are unable to speak without some physical theraphy like the one the husband disallowed...

I find it ironic that George Bush tried to kill as many people as possible with his love affair with the death penalty and now his brother is using the same christian right-wing nutjob philosophies to keep a vegetative woman alive.

Hmmm, wonder how many of the doctors that sit on the board at the hospital where Terri is being held prisoner supported Jeb Bush? How much have they made off of keeping her alive? How much of that has funnelled its way into Jeb's pocket book?

Pull the plug. If she's meant to stay alive she will wake up and ask for a cheeseburger. If not, she'll die. Either way, it's up to her and her husband, not Jebby.

Yeah, and I also remember he was tapping out the morse code for "kill me." Watch the video you want to use as evidence before you use it.

I was using it as a metaphor. How doctors can be wrong!

I was using it as a metaphor. How doctors can be wrong!

Doctors can be wrong. EEG's are pretty reliable though.

The feeding tubes? You wish to starve her?
yes
why?
because if it were ME that is what i would want.
and (more importantly) because its her husbands best opinion that it is what SHE would want

yes
why?
because if it were ME that is what i would want.
and (more importantly) because its her husbands best opinion that it is what SHE would want

The only "unnatural" thing keeping her alive is a feeding tube. Her husband has her best interests in his heart? Then why hasen't he used all of the money to keep her alive and getting the therapy she needs. Instead he uses all of the money on legal fees. Really nice.

FYI-I was in a "vegative" state for 2 years after my boating accident. I'm glad my parents didn't give up hope. I infact have memories (sure they are cloudy though) of my family coming to see me in the hospital. Eventually I regained my mind and was "reborn". After 5 years of therapy I can do nearly everything I used to. I still have far to go, but I am on the road to normal living. Heck I even hold a full time job.

The only "unnatural" thing keeping her alive is a feeding tube. Her husband has her best interests in his heart? Then why hasen't he used all of the money to keep her alive and getting the therapy she needs. Instead he uses all of the money on legal fees. Really nice.

FYI-I was in a "vegative" state for 2 years after my boating accident. I'm glad my parents didn't give up hope. I infact have memories (sure they are cloudy though) of my family coming to see me in the hospital. Eventually I regained my mind and was "reborn". After 5 years of therapy I can do nearly everything I used to. I still have far to go, but I am on the road to normal living. Heck I even hold a full time job.
Congrats man, glad to know there are few PVS advocates people who know what its like.

The only "unnatural" thing keeping her alive is a feeding tube. Her husband has her best interests in his heart? Then why hasen't he used all of the money to keep her alive and getting the therapy she needs. Instead he uses all of the money on legal fees. Really nice.

People like you skip over the years that he spent flying her around the country trying to get her any and every treatment that anyone said *might* work. Nothing did and it has been over 10 years now.

FYI-I was in a "vegative" state for 2 years after my boating accident. I'm glad my parents didn't give up hope. I infact have memories (sure they are cloudy though) of my family coming to see me in the hospital. Eventually I regained my mind and was "reborn". After 5 years of therapy I can do nearly everything I used to. I still have far to go, but I am on the road to normal living. Heck I even hold a full time job.

There is a difference between what most people would say is a vegetative state and the definition of "persistant vegetative state." Did they do brain scans and find that you had *no* higher order brain function whatsoever? Or were there signs that you had some?

I am glad that you are still around, and that is apparently your wish as well. However, if someone has said that they don't want to be kept alive after normal cognizant brain function has ceased, then their wishes should be followed.

Congrats man, glad to know there are few PVS advocates people who know what its like.

Yeah, that's why I'm so passionate about this. Terri is a human being, why should the government be able to let someone end Terri's life when there is evidence that she is conscious if barely. Government needs to actually have a decent ruling in Terri's favor. It is obvious that her husband wants nothing to do with her. If the government wants to do something then let them take Terri away from her husband and give custody to her parents. There are many charitable organizations who are willing to support her for the rest of her life. It would be fair to all sides. But he doesn't want this to happen as he wants to inherit whatever money she has left, marry this woman (with whom he's been with since 95), and he hates her parents.

Here's my observer's perspective:

The court listened to both sides arguments. They decided that the husband's arguments were more valid. The governor decided that the courts were not to be trusted with the law. He abused his legislative power. He just got what was coming to him: the courts don't like when someone infringe on their power.

What I get from this whole story is that Jeb Bush is a lousy politician who tries to grab as much power for him and his side as he can. He even breaks the law when it suits his position. I believe he should be ousted as soon as possible.

I don't care about his name so much as I see him as a menace to the US democracy. If he was named Abraham Lincoln, I would still want him out of there. Abuse of powers like this should be stopped as soon as discovered.

As for the euthanasia issue, I believe it's not my place to judge on this matter. I think, however that the many court's judgments on the husband's favor should be all the proof I need in this matter.

As a side note, Panhandlia asked a question who was never answered. Specifically: why the husband doesn't divorce her and let her parents take care of her. I have two answers for it. One: he's convinced his wife doesn't want the tube and is fighting just as hard as the parents for what he thinks is right. Two: some people still believe in the sanctity of marriage. For some people the words "untill death do us part" still has meaning.

But he doesn't want this to happen as he wants to inherit whatever money she has left, marry this woman (with whom he's been with since 95), and he hates her parents.

Speculation on your part - because you feel strongly that his decision is wrong. It seems to me that this is a man who was given the responsibility of taking care of Terri when she decided to marry him fighting for what he believes she would want. You may think that he is wrong, but you can't just place motives on him that may or may not be there.

As a side note, Panhandlia asked a question who was never answered. Specifically: why the husband doesn't divorce her and let her parents take care of her. I have two answers for it. One: he's convinced his wife doesn't want the tube and is fighting just as hard as the parents for what he thinks is right. Two: some people still believe in the sanctity of marriage. For some people the words "untill death do us part" still has meaning.

He was proved a liar on your first point. She only told him that she didn't want to be kept alive? You don't think she told her mom her wishes? Besides, she is not on life support, only a feeding tube.

He doesn't prescribe to your number 2, as he had a child with another woman in 95, and another on the way from her. He also had girlfriends before he met this woman.

People like you skip over the years that he spent flying her around the country trying to get her any and every treatment that anyone said *might* work. Nothing did and it has been over 10 years now.



There is a difference between what most people would say is a vegetative state and the definition of "persistant vegetative state." Did they do brain scans and find that you had *no* higher order brain function whatsoever? Or were there signs that you had some?

I am glad that you are still around, and that is apparently your wish as well. However, if someone has said that they don't want to be kept alive after normal cognizant brain function has ceased, then their wishes should be followed.

I was declared brain dead. But after 2 months things started working again. I feel it was a miracle from God, but many people here would not believe in such things. My doctor, who is one of the leading doctors in his field had no logical reason for this. The cause and reason for this in his words were "Something that cannot be explained, it is a total mystery. I just think He was looking out for me, maybe I have a purpose in life? My experience was IMO being reborn and given a new lease on life.

He was proved a liar on your first point. She only told him that she didn't want to be kept alive? You don't think she told her mom her wishes? Besides, she is not on life support, only a feeding tube.

He doesn't prescribe to your number 2, as he had a child with another woman in 95, and another on the way from her. He also had girlfriends before he met this woman.

Note that I'm not familiar with the case. It'S the second time I hear about it, and always on Bush's law optic.

Point one: Many explanations can be given to why you think he's a liar. Two comes to mind immediately: Could it be that the liars are the family who don't want their daughter to die? Could it be that the daughter knew that her parents would disaproove of such a thing and didn't want to start a fight?

Point two: You may be right, he may have a twisted view on marriage, maybe his family/friends/Florida disaproove of divorce and he doesn't want to be loose his ties to his family/friends/community.

I never went to Florida so I can't state how divorce is viewed, but I suppose it is not very well recieved from what I've read about it.

I find it ironic that George Bush tried to kill as many people as possible with his love affair with the death penalty and now his brother is using the same christian right-wing nutjob philosophies to keep a vegetative woman alive.

Hmmm, wonder how many of the doctors that sit on the board at the hospital where Terri is being held prisoner supported Jeb Bush? How much have they made off of keeping her alive? How much of that has funnelled its way into Jeb's pocket book?

Pull the plug. If she's meant to stay alive she will wake up and ask for a cheeseburger. If not, she'll die. Either way, it's up to her and her husband, not Jebby.
Can we PLEASE not turn every possible thread into a Bush bashing thread?

I was declared brain dead. But after 2 months things started working again. I feel it was a miracle from God, but many people here would not believe in such things. My doctor, who is one of the leading doctors in his field had no logical reason for this. The cause and reason for this in his words were "Something that cannot be explained, it is a total mystery. I just think He was looking out for me, maybe I have a purpose in life? My experience was IMO being reborn and given a new lease on life.
well every braindead person doesnt turn into that show with the guy in a coma for 2 years who comes back with some weird powers

and i know this lady has been a vegetable for far logner than 2 months, we were studying her in government class..a year ago

He was proved a liar on your first point. She only told him that she didn't want to be kept alive? You don't think she told her mom her wishes? Besides, she is not on life support, only a feeding tube.

She may have told her mother her wishes and her mother disagreed with them. Or, just maybe, since she *chose* to give the responsibility to her husband, *he* is who she told her wishes to.