NationStates Jolt Archive

It's because he is an Anarchist. Thank you, goodnight.

I can't figure it out

He wasnt deported.. he was refused entry. There is a difference.

And I think the only reason for his being refused entry was based on his support for the assassination of Salmon Rushde (sp?).

And I think the only reason for his being refused entry was based on his support for the assassination of Salmon Rushde (sp?).

So, he's read some of the books then![1]

[1] I should point out for those to whom irony is not just a closed book but a burnt and buried book as well, that comment was IRONIC.

And I think the only reason for his being refused entry was based on his support for the assassination of Salmon Rushde (sp?).

...and because he is an Anarchist. :D

...and because he is an Anarchist. :D
I think that was just a coincidence.

...and because he is an Anarchist. :D
Just for a moment I read that as Antichrist. At least that'd be internally consistent with US policy.

There are no coincidences!!!!oneone!!111! :D

Initially I was thrilled at the prospect of Homeland Security doing all of America a favor by not letting him back in. Sparing us from his music is definitely a worthwhile cause.

But upon reflection, I'm starting to think that he might end up selling more albums resulting from the publicity this is garnering. His name is in the news for the first time in years and now people will go out and buy his music just to hear what all the fuss is about. Ergo, his music might have a small surge of popularity for a while.

So now I'm back to cursing Homeland Security for this whole flap!

Utter crap. Yusuf Islam (not Cat Stevens) was refused entry because Americans are brainless. :rolleyes:

Nidnodistan: I'm not ruling out this possibility. :D

Utter crap. Yusuf Islam (not Cat Stevens) was refused entry because Americans are brainless. :rolleyes:

He was refused entry because he is on the terrorist watch list because he supposedly contributed money to Hamas.

He is an instigator, an agitator and just generally a pain in the ass of the United States that we do not need at this particular time.
I am very surprised that Great Britton tolerates him!
:gundge:

He is an instigator, an agitator and just generally a pain in the ass of the United States that we do not need at this particular time.
I am very surprised that Great Britton tolerates him!
:gundge:

We "tolerate" him because we aren't all paranoid fascists with an axe to grind.

Wasn't he a violent protester during the Vietnam war? I remember his lyrics "ride on the peace train" being in complete contradiction to how he acted. I wish I had details, someone needs to fill in.

[Refused Party Program #14]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAIDAR
He is an instigator, an agitator and just generally a pain in the ass of the United States that we do not need at this particular time.
I am very surprised that Great Britton tolerates him!



We "tolerate" him because we aren't all paranoid fascists with an axe to grind.

May Allah and his prophet grant great wisdom to the future Islamic Republic of Britain...!

He was refused entry because he is on the terrorist watch list because he supposedly contributed money to Hamas.

Yes, this was the reason, however he gave them money in 1988, when Israel supported them as well as a peaceful organization against the PLO. Hamas didn't turn into a militant group until 1989. So, he never supported terrorism. He hasn't given them a red cent since 1988.

Wasn't he a violent protester during the Vietnam war?

Uhh no, he is and has always been a pacifist.

Yes, this was the reason, however he gave them money in 1988, when Israel supported them as well as a peaceful organization against the PLO. Hamas didn't turn into a militant group until 1989. So, he never supported terrorism. He hasn't given them a red cent since 1988.

Hi.
Marry Me.
kthnxbi.

Yes, this was the reason, however he gave them money in 1988, when Israel supported them as well as a peaceful organization against the PLO. Hamas didn't turn into a militant group until 1989. So, he never supported terrorism. He hasn't given them a red cent since 1988.

that's ok, didn't the us arrest somebody on the grounds that he knew osama and gave him money back in the 80's? i seem to recall a news story or two on it.

Hi.
Marry Me.
kthnxbi.
kthxbi!

[Refused Party Program #14]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAIDAR
He is an instigator, an agitator and just generally a pain in the ass of the United States that we do not need at this particular time.
I am very surprised that Great Britton tolerates him!



We "tolerate" him because we aren't all paranoid fascists with an axe to grind.

May Allah and his prophet grant great wisdom to the future Islamic Republic of Britain...!

Are you talking to me, Mr. Paranoid Fascist With-An-Axe-To-Grind-ski?

that's ok, didn't the us arrest somebody on the grounds that he knew osama and gave him money back in the 80's? i seem to recall a news story or two on it.
the arrested bush? HA!!

the arrested bush? HA!!

HAHAHAHA!

well shit, if were gonna go down that road - they might just as well and be done with it.

cat stevens still had some good shit.

He re-wrote Peace Train last year as an anti-Iraq war song.

He re-wrote Peace Train last year as an anti-Iraq war song.
i dont know how anyone could deny his ability.
ive seen a few comments that make me shake my head.

Uhh no, he is and has always been a pacifist.

Are you sure? I swear I remember hearing about why it was so ironic that he wrote "Peace Train". I just wish I could find it... if nothing else than to prove to myself that I'm not crazy.

It's the beard.

And the little hat.

And the name "Cat" (which will follow him in perpetuity) offends the PETA people, who are the REAL "illuminati" that control the world.

i dont know how anyone could deny his ability.
ive seen a few comments that make me shake my head.

He has/had a great voice.

He has/had a great voice.
i would've pegged songwriting as his true talent...

theres a lot of great singers, not a lot of great writers in the world.

Who cares why he was denied entry? He is NOT a US citizen and as such has not "right" to be here at all. Sovereign nations retain the right to admit or deny entry to whoever they please.

Who cares why he was denied entry? He is NOT a US citizen and as such has not "right" to be here at all. Sovereign nations retain the right to admit or deny entry to whoever they please.

From what I read, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam, whatever) did have US citizenship. He was required to renounce it in a deal that would see him not arrested and shoved on the first train to Guantanamo Bay.

Some choice huh?

Are you guys really this stupid? Israeli terror experts stated that Yusuf Islam has worked as a cash-mule for London based jihadists, having smuggled as much as half-million dollars into Israel, handing it over to an arch-terrorist killed by the Israelis earlier this year. There's a war on. America has a right to defend itself. Case closed.

I think you probably made the right decision on this. It's always dodgy letting someone in who has extremeist leanings. Besides, as long as he's not a US citizen you don't have any obligation to let him in, and you don't even have any obligation to justify your reasons for this.

May Allah and his prophet grant great wisdom to the future Islamic Republic of Britain...!


INSHA'ALLAH! (that's a joke. ;) )


I am very surprised that Great Britton tolerates him!

'great britton' tolerates no one. Britain, maybe...

sheesh, i thought it was innocent until proven guilty.

sheesh, i thought it was innocent until proven guilty.
As long as you are a US citizen...And not being charged with something that the courts are likely to turn a blind eye towards (Terrorism).

sheesh, i thought it was innocent until proven guilty.

Oh foolish foolish young thing......

:D

Initially I was thrilled at the prospect of Homeland Security doing all of America a favor by not letting him back in. Sparing us from his music is definitely a worthwhile cause.

But upon reflection, I'm starting to think that he might end up selling more albums resulting from the publicity this is garnering. His name is in the news for the first time in years and now people will go out and buy his music just to hear what all the fuss is about. Ergo, his music might have a small surge of popularity for a while.

So now I'm back to cursing Homeland Security for this whole flap!

He actually gave up his music in search of spirituality.

The way I see It, they denied him re-entry, not because he "supported" terrorist organizations (C'mon, the man is a hippy), but rather because it's a matter of arrogance in the US.

[Havock]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderland
Initially I was thrilled at the prospect of Homeland Security doing all of America a favor by not letting him back in. Sparing us from his music is definitely a worthwhile cause.

But upon reflection, I'm starting to think that he might end up selling more albums resulting from the publicity this is garnering. His name is in the news for the first time in years and now people will go out and buy his music just to hear what all the fuss is about. Ergo, his music might have a small surge of popularity for a while.

So now I'm back to cursing Homeland Security for this whole flap!



He actually gave up his music in search of spirituality.

The way I see It, they denied him re-entry, not because he "supported" terrorist organizations (C'mon, the man is a hippy), but rather because it's a matter of arrogance in the US.

"Arrogance in the US"...?!

What does that mean..?

Who cares why he was denied entry? He is NOT a US citizen and as such has not "right" to be here at all. Sovereign nations retain the right to admit or deny entry to whoever they please.

What, are we turning into xenophobes now?

that's ok, didn't the us arrest somebody on the grounds that he knew osama and gave him money back in the 80's? i seem to recall a news story or two on it.

Who... Rumsfeld?

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=peopleNews&storyID=6309756

To the misinformed talk-radio junkies, Cat Stevens was not denied entry, he was deported. This is a renewed low for America... a sad day to be mourned by all. We're losing are most cherished asperations (democracy, liberty, tolerance) We're losing all of this for what?

From what I read, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam, whatever) did have US citizenship. He was required to renounce it in a deal that would see him not arrested and shoved on the first train to Guantanamo Bay.

Some choice huh?

We have trains that go to Cuba? Link please?

(Seriously, link to this?)

We have trains that go to Cuba? Link please?



http://www.creations.orbix.co.uk/artwork/lokinsea.jpg

Are you guys really this stupid? Israeli terror experts stated that Yusuf Islam has worked as a cash-mule for London based jihadists, having smuggled as much as half-million dollars into Israel, handing it over to an arch-terrorist killed by the Israelis earlier this year. There's a war on. America has a right to defend itself. Case closed.

Yeah we're all this stupid and will continue to be until you post something to verify this claim.

Utter crap. Yusuf Islam (not Cat Stevens) was refused entry because Americans are brainless. :rolleyes:
What an incredibly erudite, concise comment. :rolleyes:

sheesh, i thought it was innocent until proven guilty.
That is in the domain of the courts and trials for criminal acts. He was not arrested, he was refused entry. A completely separate state of affairs.

The music of Cat Stevens was written & published over 30 years ago. What his current state of mind is, what his actions (as opposed to his words) are why the "intelligence" officials added him to the no fly list is not published.

It is not a matter of great importance and little would have been said if he was not once a celebrity.

What is of importance is where America goes after November 2nd.

We have trains that go to Cuba? Link please?

(Seriously, link to this?)

Uhh.. about the deal, it was in the UK's Daily Express, I think 23rd September issue. As for the train.. figure of speech, dearie. But I see someone's posted a nice POVray-rendered thing for you.

The music of Cat Stevens was written & published over 30 years ago. What his current state of mind is, what his actions (as opposed to his words) are why the "intelligence" officials added him to the no fly list is not published.


Excluding his contribution to the Warchild: Hope Album with a new version of Peace Train, recorded with the South African choir, Incwenga. All profits from Hope will be donated to the War Child charity for their specific work in Iraq. The true work of a terrorist :rolleyes: .

Excluding his contribution to the Warchild: Hope Album with a new version of Peace Train, recorded with the South African choir, Incwenga. All profits from Hope will be donated to the War Child charity for their specific work in Iraq. The true work of a terrorist :rolleyes: .

When will they stop cuasing us misery?!?!?!?!oneone!11forward-slash?!/1//!!?

Because he wrote the following songs:

"Peace Train."

"Moonshadow"

"I love My dog."

Egads.

I'm pretty sure that last one was by Blink 182.

I'm pretty sure that last one was by Blink 182.


Oh No.

"I love my dog", was a Cat Stevens original.

"Oh I love my dog..as much as....I love you."

Waaaaay back in the sixties, when he was a teen idol in Britian.

We "tolerate" him because we aren't all paranoid fascists with an axe to grind.

That's not really fair.

You must understand that the US has a long tradition of attempting to silence any voice of dissent.

Please read up on Senator McCarthy, the Vietnam war protest movement, J.Edgar Hoover, etc etc.

The poor befuddled folk there are more to be pitied than scorned.

To truly understand their thinking, perhaps George Orwell's "1984" may help.

An understanding of the concept of doublethink is invaluable.

It explains, for example, how you can protect a democracy by stifling dissent, fight for peace, have an economic system that pays movie stars the annual budget of third world nations without feeling at all uncomfortable, etc.

As I said, more to be pitied than scorned.

That's not really fair.

You must understand that the US has a long tradition of attempting to silence any voice of dissent.

Please read up on Senator McCarthy, the Vietnam war protest movement, J.Edgar Hoover, etc etc.

The poor befuddled folk there are more to be pitied than scorned.

To truly understand their thinking, perhaps George Orwell's "1984" may help.

An understanding of the concept of doublethink is invaluable.

It explains, for example, how you can protect a democracy by stifling dissent, fight for peace, have an economic system that pays movie stars the annual budget of third world nations without feeling at all uncomfortable, etc.

As I said, more to be pitied than scorned.

Oh, don't worry, I do pity them.

Smells like McCarthyist paranoia to me... Is there
ANYONE who has any legitimable proof that ol'
Cat has ever supported terror og fatwas against
persons og organisations?

And that Terror-list?..If I were to sell it, I would
have sold it for a nickle and a fresh of breath air..

BTW Bush would really be wise to read a bit of Nietzsche

"When you fight monsters,beware of becoming a monster
yourself... For as you look into the abyss, the abyss also
looks into you"

Cat Stevens... it's like arresting Cliff Richard.

So the US deports anyone who may have once met a terrorist? Yet they let Gerry Adams and Nelson Mandela in... it just illustrates the fatuousness of the 'War on Terror'. How can you fight a war against a technique? You may as well have a war against low-level precision bombing. If you treat all people who advocate violent dissent as the same, then pretty soon they will ALL be your enemy. QED.

From what I read, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam, whatever) did have US citizenship. He was required to renounce it in a deal that would see him not arrested and shoved on the first train to Guantanamo Bay.

Some choice huh?

Do you have a link to this story? I would like to read it if it is true. I was under the impression that he was always a British Citizen and never had American citizenship.

What, are we turning into xenophobes now?

You have no idea of what you are talking about do you?

Latest news on this :
The British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, has complained to his US counterpart, Colin Powell, about the deportation from the US of the former pop singer Cat Stevens as a possible terrorist risk.

Mr Straw, in New York for United Nations meetings, told Mr Powell that "this action should not have been taken", a British spokesman said.

The singer, who changed his name to Yusuf Islam in the 1970s, said on his return to Britain yesterday: "I'm totally shocked. Half of me wants to smile, and half of me wants to growl. The whole thing is totally ridiculous." He described Mr Straw's intervention as very kind.

A United Airlines flight from London to Washington was diverted to Bangor, Maine, on Tuesday after US authorities discovered that he was on board.

His name appeared on several terrorism watch lists, a US official said. "We refused him on national security grounds."

"In London, United Airlines missed the fact that he was on the watch list and allowed him to board the flight," he said.

Mr Islam was denied entry to Israel in 2000 over suspicions that he had given money to the radical Palestinian group Hamas. He has consistently denied supporting terrorism.

British officials were quoted as saying there was no evidence known to the country's intelligence services that Mr Islam posed any danger.

The decision was also criticised as divisive by Islamic groups in Britain.

Mr Islam, who has been a vocal campaigner for the establishment of faith-based Muslim schools in Britain, was "a very moderate man", said the deputy general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, Mohammad Abdul Bari.

"We are really appalled at what is happening," he said. "It is a slap in the face of sanity. If prominent, well-known personalities are treated like this, then how can there be bridge-building?"

The Muslim Association of Britain said the decision followed a move last month to prevent an Islamic professor taking up an academic post in the US..

Source.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/23/1095651472893.html.

Comment.
Seems that the poor Brits don't know if there citizens are really terrorists at all. Perhaps they dont use the same definition of "terrorist" as the US does.

Makes ya wonder.

I always thought that the strength of a democracy was measured in its tolerance and willingness to allow freedom of speech -

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." ~ Noam Chomsky ~

"The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don't agree with."~ Eleanor Holmes Norton ~

Surely we dont need to be "protected from democracy".

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=peopleNews&storyID=6309756

To the misinformed talk-radio junkies, Cat Stevens was not denied entry, he was deported. This is a renewed low for America... a sad day to be mourned by all. We're losing are most cherished asperations (democracy, liberty, tolerance) We're losing all of this for what?

Since when does the deportation of a NON-CITIZEN affect the rights of American citizens? No NON-CITIZEN has a right to enter ANY country if said country does not wish it. It is called sovereignty, I suggest you look it up.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." ~ Noam Chomsky ~

The problem is that terrorists express themselves by beheading people. I guess we should tolerate that as well then?

Since when does the deportation of a NON-CITIZEN affect the rights of American citizens? No NON-CITIZEN has a right to enter ANY country if said country does not wish it. It is called sovereignty, I suggest you look it up.

Jumping the gun a bit there, aren't we? You yourself just admitted that you don't even know whether he is a citizen or not.

Islam visited New York previously this year (ask me for a source and I will explode you) and I don't see how he could have become a "threat" in the space of a few months, if he wasn't already.

The problem is that terrorists express themselves by beheading people. I guess we should tolerate that as well then?

So the problem isn't why they are beheading people?

Jumping the gun a bit there, aren't we? You yourself just admitted that you don't even know whether he is a citizen or not.

Islam visited New York previously this year (ask me for a source and I will explode you) and I don't see how he could have become a "threat" in the space of a few months, if he wasn't already.

No, I know he isn't. Someone else stated he was but had to renounce it...I wanted to see proof of that.

So the problem isn't why they are beheading people?

Wow....you defend such actions?

Wow....you defend such actions?

Can you give me a source for this gem?

No, I know he isn't. Someone else stated he was but had to renounce it...I wanted to see proof of that.

i.e. You think he isn't.

The problem is that terrorists express themselves by beheading people. I guess we should tolerate that as well then?

You tolerate it in your good buddies Saudi Arabia, where it passes for judicial execution.

But in any event you're immediately leaping to extremes to prove a point. No-one is arguing that beheading people is the way forward. But to connect the actions of some fanatics in Iraq with a moderate Muslim ex-singer is to tar all Muslims with the same brush. Like I said before - if you assume that they are all your enemies and treat them that way, then very soon you'll be right.

He is not a citizen of the US and to the best of my knowledge never has been, thus he has no right of entry & no rights under the Constitution.
Just for kicks and giggles...if anyone can offer proof that he has ever held US citizenship, please do so.

The problem is that terrorists express themselves by beheading people. I guess we should tolerate that as well then?

Perhaps you are in possession of more information than the rest of us.

My understanding is that Cat Steven''s has not in fact beheaded anyone. I do not believe he has been charged with any offence at all. The British seem rather convinced that he is not a terrorist, and he is one of their citizens.

He is guilty of being on a "list" - sound McCarthyist to me.

Please do not attempt to justify expulsion without cause with other matters, it only makes you look befuddled.

He is not a citizen of the US and to the best of my knowledge never has been, thus he has no right of entry & no rights under the Constitution.
Just for kicks and giggles...if anyone can offer proof that he has ever held US citizenship, please do so.

Exactly my point....prove that he is or ever had US citizenship.

Perhaps you are in possession of more information than the rest of us.

My understanding is that Cat Steven''s has not in fact beheaded anyone. I do not believe he has been charged with any offence at all. The British seem rather convinced that he is not a terrorist, and he is one of their citizens.

He is guilty of being on a "list" - sound McCarthyist to me.

Please do not attempt to justify expulsion without cause with other matters, it only makes you look befuddled.

I never said that he had beheaded anyone.....maybe you misunderstood my post.

As for denying entry or deporting non-citizens....every country has the right to do so without reason or cause. It is called SOVEREIGNTY.

Well then either US Homeland Security or your Intelligence g33ks are incompetent. Possibly even both.


























(Okay, so we already know both are incompetent. I just like saying it. :D)

I never said that he had beheaded anyone.....maybe you misunderstood my post.

As for denying entry or deporting non-citizens....every country has the right to do so without reason or cause. It is called SOVEREIGNTY.

Jeez Biff, get over it, will you?

America's right to bar anyone's entry is NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is WHY you choose to do it. Normally us peaceful law-abiding Brits can get on a plane and travel to America, and if you decide one of us can't, then generally there is a reason for it. Or are you saying there is some kind of random number generator and when the six zeroes come up you arbitrarily kick someone out?

All we are trying to get at is why you feel the need to divert a plane from its planned flight path, arrest the guy and then put him on a plane back to London. It seems an overreaction to the magnitude of the alleged threat posed by Cat Stevens, to put it mildly. Isn't that the issue? Why him?

Well then either US Homeland Security or your Intelligence g33ks are incompetent. Possibly even both.
(Okay, so we already know both are incompetent. I just like saying it. :D)

Maybe they are....but the point is moot. Evidently there is some evidence that Cat Stevens has a charity that did donate some money to Hamas. Do I have proof of that? No, but from what I can find, that is the reason he was placed on the personna-non-grata list. He may not even know where the money he donates goes to, but the worldwide financial roadmap is getting easier and easier to read these days....so to say it is not true would be just as wrong as to hold it up as fact. There are many things we just are not told and should not be for obvious reasons.

Jeez Biff, get over it, will you?

All we are trying to get at is why you feel the need to divert a plane from its planned flight path, arrest the guy and then put him on a plane back to London. It seems an overreaction to the magnitude of the alleged threat posed by Cat Stevens, to put it mildly. Isn't that the issue? Why him?

And a great use of your tax dollars, by the way.

He is an instigator, an agitator and just generally a pain in the ass of the United States that we do not need at this particular time.
I am very surprised that Great Britton tolerates him!
Our wooly lefty government tolerated Abu "Captain Hook" Hamza for years. Compared to him Yusef Islam is as dangerous as a kitten.

And a great use of your tax dollars, by the way.

Really? How much do you think it really cost? United has to fly him back for free since they allowed him on the plane when they should'nt have. I doubt it cost more than $20 tops. However....if it later comes out that he had supported Hamas as has been alledged by both Israel and the US State Dept. then I guess it would be worth it.

Do I think the guy is dangerous personally? No. Do I think his wealth can be used to support violence? Definetly, as can anyones.

I never said that he had beheaded anyone.....maybe you misunderstood my post.

As for denying entry or deporting non-citizens....every country has the right to do so without reason or cause. It is called SOVEREIGNTY.

No, but you introduced the notion of beheading in a blatantly silly attempt to "muddy the waters".

Yes, the US has the right to refuse entry. To do so because someone is on a "list" is called McCarthyism.

And that remains the only reason for the action.

Please attempt to defend such stupidity using only the facts, if possible,and not by racing off into unrelated areas.

It may prevent your posts being "misunderstood".

Our wooly lefty government tolerated Abu "Captain Hook" Hamza for years. Compared to him Yusef Islam is as dangerous as a kitten.

The difference is that Abu Hamza is a British citizen. It therefore becomes a bit difficult to deport him (mind you, we found a way in the end).

And since when was New Labour a left-wing government (???!!!)

Do I think the guy is dangerous personally? No. Do I think his wealth can be used to support violence? Definetly, as can anyones.

So anyone with enough money and a partisan atttitude is "a threat"?

We, here, call this "bollocks".

[QUOTE=Refused Party Program]So anyone with enough money and a partisan atttitude is "a threat"? /QUOTE]

Absolutely. Look at George Bush.

[QUOTE=Refused Party Program]So anyone with enough money and a partisan atttitude is "a threat"? /QUOTE]

Absolutely. Look at George Bush.

Haha. Good point!

" A Homeland Security official said United Airlines employees missed Islam's name on the "watch lists" in Britain and that the plane was in flight when officials found a match from the advanced passenger information sent by the airline."

Someone screwed up and missed his name on the "watch list" (whether his name should or should not have been on the list is another matter). When his name was matched, the plane was diverted to the first port of entry and the person removed from the plane and deportation proceedings started. Seems to me that proper procedures were followed.

Yes, the US has the right to refuse entry. To do so because someone is on a "list" is called McCarthyism.

Osama Bin Laden is on a list as well. I guess by denying him entry we are being wrong as well. Afterall...he has never been to the US before and has never committed a crime here personally.

Known terrorists and their supporters are on a list of "undesireables." You may have a problem with that, but I don't. Those who cause and support acts of terrorism should not be allowed entry into the US or any other country if they do not want them to enter.

Non-citizens do not have a right to enter into any country at will...they have to be allowed in and governments refuse entry all the time for a variety of reasons or not. That you disagree with this is your right, but I think you are oversimplifying the issue.

Known terrorists and their supporters are on a list of "undesireables." You may have a problem with that, but I don't. Those who cause and support acts of terrorism should not be allowed entry into the US or any other country if they do not want them to enter.

I have no problem with that either. I have a problem with how people get ONTO the list. If you are prepared to put Cat Stevens on it, then I think that the list is working off blind prejudice and parapnoia as much as level of perceived threat.

I say again that you let Gerry Adams and Nelson Mandela in, both self-confessed and convicted users of terrorism. That is the problem with the War on Terrorism - it is too vague and wooly, and all too often seems to simply equate to a war on Islam. Unless you can start telling Muslim fanatics who want to destroy the west from Muslims who are politically active (like Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam) then personally speaking I think you are in big trouble, and thanks to that, we are too, which I resent.

Osama Bin Laden is on a list as well. I guess by denying him entry we are being wrong as well. Afterall...he has never been to the US before and has never committed a crime here personally.

Known terrorists and their supporters are on a list of "undesireables." You may have a problem with that, but I don't. Those who cause and support acts of terrorism should not be allowed entry into the US or any other country if they do not want them to enter.

Non-citizens do not have a right to enter into any country at will...they have to be allowed in and governments refuse entry all the time for a variety of reasons or not. That you disagree with this is your right, but I think you are oversimplifying the issue.

You are obviously attempting to muddy the waters yet again.

Are you suggesting that Cat Stevens is a terrorist?

Why are the British government protesting this action by the US government?

I am not oversimplifying the issue at all, merely describing the facts without introuducing other unrelated matters like beheading and Osama bin Laden.

If you could bring yourself to stick to the facts, perhaps a reasonable debate could occur.

If Cat Stevens is guilty of any offence, let him be so charged.

Oops, sorry, not the US way, that, is it? Forgetting about Guantanamo for a moment.

I have no problem with that either. I have a problem with how people get ONTO the list. If you are prepared to put Cat Stevens on it, then I think that the list is working off blind prejudice and parapnoia as much as level of perceived threat.

I say again that you let Gerry Adams and Nelson Mandela in, both self-confessed and convicted users of terrorism. That is the problem with the War on Terrorism - it is too vague and wooly, and all too often seems to simply equate to a war on Islam. Unless you can start telling Muslim fanatics who want to destroy the west from Muslims who are politically active (like Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam) then personally speaking I think you are in big trouble, and thanks to that, we are too, which I resent.

IF the State Dept. releases the information that they have that his charity contributed to Hamas, then maybe you might agree. That however is unlikely to happen so here we are.

IF the State Dept. releases the information that they have that his charity contributed to Hamas, then maybe you might agree. That however is unlikely to happen so here we are.

Yes, this was the reason, however he gave them money in 1988, when Israel supported them as well as a peaceful organization against the PLO. Hamas didn't turn into a militant group until 1989. So, he never supported terrorism. He hasn't given them a red cent since 1988.

...

Originally Posted by Stephistan
Yes, this was the reason, however he gave them money in 1988, when Israel supported them as well as a peaceful organization against the PLO. Hamas didn't turn into a militant group until 1989. So, he never supported terrorism. He hasn't given them a red cent since 1988.


...

Maybe thats not true.....who knows? Who cares? I don't....

Originally Posted by Stephistan
Yes, this was the reason, however he gave them money in 1988, when Israel supported them as well as a peaceful organization against the PLO. Hamas didn't turn into a militant group until 1989. So, he never supported terrorism. He hasn't given them a red cent since 1988.




Maybe thats not true.....who knows? Who cares? I don't....

Then you're in the wrong thread.

Originally Posted by Stephistan
Yes, this was the reason, however he gave them money in 1988, when Israel supported them as well as a peaceful organization against the PLO. Hamas didn't turn into a militant group until 1989. So, he never supported terrorism. He hasn't given them a red cent since 1988.


Maybe thats not true.....who knows? Who cares? I don't....

Obviously not.

Why let the facts ruin your little story.

You have already compared Cat Stevens to Osama bin Laden and to terrorists beheading captives.

Your disregard for truth or accuracy is already apparent. No need to advertise the fact.

Obviously not.

Why let the facts ruin your little story.

You have already compared Cat Stevens to Osama bin Laden and to terrorists beheading captives.

Your disregard for truth or accuracy is already apparent. No need to advertise the fact.

No I didn't, I just don't have a problem with him being deported. He is not a US citizen and has no right to be here. If he has a problem with the State Dept, then he should address it himself. I doubt he will change their minds. Afterall...this IS a man who called for the death of an author (Salman Rushdie) who wrote a book. A very tolerant people our Muslim friends.....

Your disregard for truth or accuracy is already apparent. No need to advertise the fact.

You've fallen into his trap! He will now request a source for this "gem"!

Maybe thats not true.....who knows? Who cares? I don't....

And we do. Maybe it is that simple.

If it matters so little to you, why have you spent the past few hours arguing about it? Is it just a knee-jerk reaction to anyone who has the temerity to criticise the US?

I have a problem with governments that tell us they have some secret information that they can't share with us, and that we'll just have to trust them on this one. It often turns out they're just bullshitting to cover their embarrassment.

After all, that's exactly what Blair said about Iraq...

No I didn't, I just don't have a problem with him being deported. He is not a US citizen and has no right to be here. If he has a problem with the State Dept, then he should address it himself. I doubt he will change their minds. Afterall...this IS a man who called for the death of an author (Salman Rushdie) who wrote a book. A very tolerant people our Muslim friends.....

And surprise, surprise Biffy here changes his argument completely. Now Yusef Islam is intolerant along with his Muslim brothers and sisters.

And we do. Maybe it is that simple.

If it matters so little to you, why have you spent the past few hours arguing about it? Is it just a knee-jerk reaction to anyone who has the temerity to criticise the US?

I have a problem with governments that tell us they have some secret information that they can't share with us, and that we'll just have to trust them on this one. It often turns out they're just bullshitting to cover their embarrassment.

After all, that's exactly what Blair said about Iraq...

I don't care BECAUSE the guy had no right to be here in the first place....that he was sent home was the right thing to do. The British Government is complaining about it...maybe that will bring the information about him out in the open. IF it does and it is substantial...I expect you will argue about that as well.

I don't care BECAUSE the guy had no right to be here in the first place....that he was sent home was the right thing to do. The British Government is complaining about it...maybe that will bring the information about him out in the open. IF it does and it is substantial...I expect you will argue about that as well.

British Government says he is not a threat. US Government is suspisciously quiet.

British Government says he is not a threat. US Government is suspisciously quiet.

Whats left to talk about? He is already gone....

Whats left to talk about? He is already gone....

Pay attention now, Biff.

Do you know what this is?

No?

I'll tell you.

This is you oversimplifying the issue. Now take a breath and relax.

This is you oversimplifying the issue. Now take a breath and relax.

The whole thing is very simple....seee post #87

Whats left to talk about? He is already gone....

And so am I. I can only bang my head against a brick wall for so long.

Here's why it matters: if the 'War on Terror' is anything (other than a transparent ploy for Bush to get himself re-elected by posing as a 'wartime' commander) it's a battle for hearts and minds, especially in the Muslim world. And you are losing that battle hands down. And all you do by overreacting to the presence of peaceable Muslims like Cat Stevens is piss off the moderate Muslim world and create even more trouble for yourself further down the line by continuing to radicalise an entire generation of young Muslim men.
If you want to beat terrorism you have to turn off the ever-dripping tap of recruits that your policies in Palestine and now Iraq have caused. And you won't do that by appearing to victimise moderate Muslims. I'm not saying that turning back Cat Stevens is going to equate to bombs in American cities. But it IS part of a pattern, and until you start trying to change that pattern of perceived US Islamaphobia you have no hope of winning.

That's all folks. Over and out.

The whole thing is very simple....seee post #87

I have to confess to being silly enough to take your advice, and re-check post 87.

That, however, merely states that "proper procedures" were followed.

Of couse, "proper procedures" were followed in death camps as well.

the "properness" of the "procedures" is scarcely the point.

If you beleive that the only subjective test required is "proper procedures" then any totalitarian regime is gonna love ya.

And so am I. I can only bang my head against a brick wall for so long.

Here's why it matters: if the 'War on Terror' is anything (other than a transparent ploy for Bush to get himself re-elected by posing as a 'wartime' commander) it's a battle for hearts and minds, especially in the Muslim world. And you are losing that battle hands down. And all you do by overreacting to the presence of peaceable Muslims like Cat Stevens is piss off the moderate Muslim world and create even more trouble for yourself further down the line by continuing to radicalise an entire generation of young Muslim men.
If you want to beat terrorism you have to turn off the ever-dripping tap of recruits that your policies in Palestine and now Iraq have caused. And you won't do that by appearing to victimise moderate Muslims. I'm not saying that turning back Cat Stevens is going to equate to bombs in American cities. But it IS part of a pattern, and until you start trying to change that pattern of perceived US Islamaphobia you have no hope of winning.

That's all folks. Over and out.

So by letting any and everyone in we will "win" over the Muslim world? Is Cat Stevens a bad guy? I don't know, and neither do you. We don't know what he does in his home in Iran. We DO know that Iran has recently approved his music there, and they don't approve anything unless it falls into their line of thinking. Of course their line of thinking usually involves car bombs and suicide bombers in Israel. How do we know that Cat Stevens does NOT support those endeavors. He SAYS that he raises money for Muslim Schools. Would these be the Madrases in Pakistan that are being used to indoctrinate the next generation of terrorists? Who knows? But it just might be.

We DO know that Iran has recently approved his music there, and they don't approve anything unless it falls into their line of thinking. Of course their line of thinking usually involves car bombs and suicide bombers in Israel.

Um, about the whole music thing, I suppose Queen are also into carbombing and the like. Rock band Queen, fronted by outlandish gay icon Freddie Mercury, have become the first rock band to be given the official seal of approval in Iran with the release of an album of their greatest hits, a source in the company that released the album told AFP.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/08/24/1093246498400.html?from=storylhs Sorry, the first link required registration.

He is an instigator, an agitator and just generally a pain in the ass of the United States that we do not need at this particular time.
I am very surprised that Great Britton tolerates him!
:gundge:

Great Britain tolerates him because we're run by a bunch of poncy lefties who run politics based on the worse you are the better chance you have of getting in, and the worse you are the better we'll look after you... hence "assylym seekers", Islam extremeists (who currently preach hatred in our streets protected by the police) are allowed to stay and be protected. Whilst Australians are turned away, and they have the same Head of State as us! Weird.

That hook handed terroist was protected by our police as he urged muslims to go to war against the west whilst a slightly doddery old man who beleived gay sex is wrong and had the audacity to say so on a street corner was banged up for the night! (oh that was after he "incited a riot" of about 30 gay activist who had a go at him)

So the message is if your some sort of useless nutter who will psonge off the rest of the public or will join the al queda then welcome, if you're a hardworking tax payer you're scum!

Uhh.. about the deal, it was in the UK's Daily Express, I think 23rd September issue. As for the train.. figure of speech, dearie. But I see someone's posted a nice POVray-rendered thing for you.

Thanks. Here it is:

Cat refused entry for Hamas support

Cat Stevens should never have been detained and deported from the United States, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has told his American counterpart.

Mr Straw, in New York for meetings at the UN, told Secretary of State Colin Powell that the action "should not have been taken".

The singer, who converted to Islam and changed his name to Yusuf Islam in the 1970s, was branded a terrorist supporter by the US Government.

His name was on a US security watch list and was only spotted after his Washington-bound flight had taken off from London on last night.

The discovery led to the aircraft being diverted 600 miles to Bangor, Maine, where Islam was escorted off and questioned by the FBI. He was denied entry to the US on national security grounds.

A spokesman for Mr Straw confirmed that the Foreign Secretary spoke to Mr Powell about the incident.

"He (Mr Straw) heard the reports of the incident involving Cat Stevens," the spokesman said. "He did say to the Secretary of State that this action should not have been taken."

The US Department of Homeland Security said Islam was put on the security watch list "because of concerns about activities that could potentially be related to terrorism".

A spokesman said: "The intelligence community has come into possession of additional information that raises concerns about him."

US Government sources have claimed that Islam had financially supported the terrorist group Hamas.


© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2004, All Rights Reserved.

Nothing I can see in there about him having ever been a U.S. citizen nor having been threatened with Gitmo detention.

[Martian Free Colonies #105]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff Pileon
Whats left to talk about? He is already gone....


And so am I. I can only bang my head against a brick wall for so long.

Here's why it matters: if the 'War on Terror' is anything (other than a transparent ploy for Bush to get himself re-elected by posing as a 'wartime' commander) it's a battle for hearts and minds, especially in the Muslim world. And you are losing that battle hands down. And all you do by overreacting to the presence of peaceable Muslims like Cat Stevens is piss off the moderate Muslim world and create even more trouble for yourself further down the line by continuing to radicalise an entire generation of young Muslim men.
If you want to beat terrorism you have to turn off the ever-dripping tap of recruits that your policies in Palestine and now Iraq have caused. And you won't do that by appearing to victimise moderate Muslims. I'm not saying that turning back Cat Stevens is going to equate to bombs in American cities. But it IS part of a pattern, and until you start trying to change that pattern of perceived US Islamaphobia you have no hope of winning.

That's all folks. Over and out.

The "peacable" muslim world is firmly against al-qaida and the like, but they have yet to need to develop the courage to publically come out against it.

The islamists will never stop, and are not "convertible" back to being non-terrorists, therefore placating them is senseless.

The "ever dripping tap of recruits" are not a product of US policies, it is a product of islamist propoganda in the oppressive muslim world, due to their oppressive societies.

The only answer to the islamist question is their total annihilation.

There is no islamo-phobia in the US. There IS a suspicion of muslims due to the lack of outspokeness of US muslims to condemn and cooperate in the destruction of sleeping islamists in the US.

When the "moderate" US muslims start turning over islamists to the authorities, then we'll see less suspicion of US muslims.

I didn't read through the whole thread, but what struck me, is if he was in fact on the no fly terror list.. it's nice to see how well the list is working.. *LOL* :D

what's the difference between a muslim and an islamist?

[Stephistan #112]
I didn't read through the whole thread, but what struck me, is if he was in fact on the no fly terror list.. it's nice to see how well the list is working.. *LOL* :D

Heh he he... :)

I wish more deserved people were on the list,... and that there were only ONE list,.. and that EVERYONE checked the list...!

And everyone was stopped and held at the border for 3 days, to check them.

But I suppose the ACLU would side with the terrorists on this issue too..

And every piece of cargo was checked before entry.

And....

..the list of things to check is too long.

But they should all be checked, anyway.

And the "do nothings" should be publicly flogged, for not getting their jobs accomplished.



And anyone cooperating with Hamas should be shot on sight.

[Nidnodistan #113]
what's the difference between a muslim and an islamist?

Look up "muslim" in the dictionary. :)

"Islamist" in common use is a muslim extremist who uses terrorist methods to institute an "all world Islamic government" (ummah?, though more probably a caliphate)".

http://www.islamistwatch.org/

(( A quick google on "islamist" got the above. It may not be representative of my personal views. ))

what's the difference between a muslim and an islamist?

"Islamist/Islamicist" is a term, coined by the Bushies I believe right after 9/11, created to differentiate moderate and law-abiding Muslims from people claiming to be Muslims and distorting Islam for the perpetuation of terrorism.

[Nidnodistan #113]
what's the difference between a muslim and an islamist?

Look up "muslim" in the dictionary. :)

"Islamist" in common use is a muslim extremist who uses terrorist methods to institute an "all world Islamic government" (uma?)".

http://www.islamistwatch.org/

(( A quick google on "islamist" got the above. It may not be representative of my personal views. ))

You really do have a lot of fun with the posting formats here, don't you? :)

Who is Cat Stevens?

You really do have a lot of fun with the posting formats here, don't you? :)

I find the non-threaded posting system to be a pain in the backside, so I tend to include as much pre-me posting context as possible.

And the formatting does tend to make it a bit easier (if used relatively sparingly) to read.

:D

[Von Witzleben #118]
Who is Cat Stevens?

GOOGLE..! :)

He re-wrote Peace Train last year as an anti-Iraq war song.
This is probably the reason he was deported! Remember Bush said 'You're either with us or against us'. So obviously putting out an anti-war song proves you're against 'us' and your terrorist leanings.

Really? How much do you think it really cost? United has to fly him back for free since they allowed him on the plane when they should'nt have. I doubt it cost more than $20 tops.
You think that's all it costs to divert a flight to another airport, organise and get all other passengers to their proper destination, inteview a person for several hours, hold them for a night, then pay for a ticket to send him back (do you really think United would do it for free?) is only $20. Would you do me a big favour and book me a world tour. I'll want to go in style, so can probably afford $100.

[Demented Hamsters #121]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refused Party Program
He re-wrote Peace Train last year as an anti-Iraq war song.


This is probably the reason he was deported! Remember Bush said 'You're either with us or against us'. So obviously putting out an anti-war song proves you're against 'us' and your terrorist leanings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff Pileon
Really? How much do you think it really cost? United has to fly him back for free since they allowed him on the plane when they should'nt have. I doubt it cost more than $20 tops.


You think that's all it costs to divert a flight to another airport, organise and get all other passengers to their proper destination, inteview a person for several hours, hold them for a night, then pay for a ticket to send him back (do you really think United would do it for free?) is only $20. Would you do me a big favour and book me a world tour. I'll want to go in style, so can probably afford $100.

Heh he he he he.....!!

That whole Hamas thing is really quite trivial of course.

Who believes anything the non-hamas supporters say, anyway....

The self righteous bastards..!

Hamas is just a human rights organization, after all.

This is probably the reason he was deported! Remember Bush said 'You're either with us or against us'. So obviously putting out an anti-war song proves you're against 'us' and your terrorist leanings.


You think that's all it costs to divert a flight to another airport, organise and get all other passengers to their proper destination, inteview a person for several hours, hold them for a night, then pay for a ticket to send him back (do you really think United would do it for free?) is only $20. Would you do me a big favour and book me a world tour. I'll want to go in style, so can probably afford $100.

Good news.

You can now upgrade your accomodation on your world tour.

Seems Cat Stevens is going to take legal action.

So, add in the cost of that.

Still, its all really worth it though, after all he was clearly guilty of being on a list.

[Demented Hamsters #121]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refused Party Program
He re-wrote Peace Train last year as an anti-Iraq war song.


This is probably the reason he was deported! Remember Bush said 'You're either with us or against us'. So obviously putting out an anti-war song proves you're against 'us' and your terrorist leanings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff Pileon
Really? How much do you think it really cost? United has to fly him back for free since they allowed him on the plane when they should'nt have. I doubt it cost more than $20 tops.


You think that's all it costs to divert a flight to another airport, organise and get all other passengers to their proper destination, inteview a person for several hours, hold them for a night, then pay for a ticket to send him back (do you really think United would do it for free?) is only $20. Would you do me a big favour and book me a world tour. I'll want to go in style, so can probably afford $100.

Heh he he he he.....!!

That whole Hamas thing is really quite trivial of course.

Who believes anything the non-hamas supporters say, anyway....

The self righteous bastards..!

Hamas is just a human rights organization, after all.

You didn't read a single post in this thread, did you?

that's ok, didn't the us arrest somebody on the grounds that he knew osama and gave him money back in the 80's? i seem to recall a news story or two on it.I think Anybody who gave money to Ossama got to be on the Terrorist list.

I think Anybody who gave money to Ossama got to be on the Terrorist list.

So, the CIA is on the watch list along with Bush Snr?

So, the CIA is on the watch list along with Bush Snr?
and they are not on the terrorist list?
sen. Keneddy is on the List and Daddy Bush is not?

Monkeys with Type writers...

i once lent a couple of quid to a guy in my school who was in the UVF, will america refuse me admission?

i once lent a couple of quid to a guy in my school who was in the UVF, will america refuse me admission?

One can hope. ;)

I think you probably made the right decision on this. It's always dodgy letting someone in who has extremeist leanings. .
In this case, most US Republican extremists would have top obbey the same threatement when they travel to the free world (Europe for ex.), most of them are more dangerous extremists then Cat Stevens

probably something arroused attention because they didnt hear the whole story. like what if he was talking to someone and said

"Iraq blah blah blah bombs bloah blah right"


Then is interrorgated ect.

It seems Cat Stevens was travelling with his Daughter, and was going to visit his Brother who resides in the US, and then to 2 charity events.

I still cannot find a legit reason as to why this happened.

I also don't want to go near US as long as this admin is there.

The US has just given it's reason. Stevens isn't suspected of anything, but he is alleged to have ties to charitable organisations with ties to Hamas.

So, another story where the Israeli lobby is leading the US around by the nose. How embarassing.

and they are not on the terrorist list?
sen. Keneddy is on the List and Daddy Bush is not?

Monkeys with Type writers...

What?

As Cat Stevens is a Muslim, I think the US government acted quite correctly in kicking him out. As you will see from my Nationstates.com page, my nation is hot on personal freedoms. I feel that Islam doesn't support the principle of libertarianism and therefore should not be tolerated. Political correctists are frequently coming up with bromides about how Islam is a religion of peace. As a result of the Palestinians of pandemic proportions, who gather on the streets to chant "Death to Israel" whenever there is a suicide attack launched against Israel, all I can say is "whatever".

Wow...that's some first post. After the first sentence, none of it makes sense.

Not allowing people of a specific religion into your country = intolerance. And actually, this probably was the reason he wasn't allowed in. If he wasn't a Muslim, I doubt any of this would have happened.

My question is, if he is such a threat, why was he allowed to visit New York some months ago?

Wow...that's some first post. After the first sentence, none of it makes sense.

Not allowing people of a specific religion into your country = intolerance. And actually, this probably was the reason he wasn't allowed in. If he wasn't a Muslim, I doubt any of this would have happened.

My question is, if he is such a threat, why was he allowed to visit New York some months ago?

Perhaps it wasn't an election year?

It's because he is an Anarchist. Thank you, goodnight.
Oooh, baby, baby its a wide world!

throughout all of this i have had the opinion that it was an overreaction, but it also begs the question.....Is the PC crusade vs "intolerance" also an insult to common sense? Please name me one hijacked plane in the last 35 years that wasn't by a muslim.....waiting....waiting....please name the most backward, oppressive, least free, theocratic, least human rights respecting regional areas areas of the world.....please name where is the engagement with the world and spread of democracy and where it isn't.....just about any national or world security cinsultant in the world would lecture that the hots spots in the world are all concentrated in one region due to lack of engagement with the rest of the world....asian countries, even china, europe, the entire western hemisphere, etc., is all becoming engaged and progressing....the middle eastern and north african countries, which tyou can draw a circle around on a global map, are the ones lagging in EVERYTHING......the non-pc, or literal truth, the islamic countries is where the vast majority of the issues, or "hot zones" in diplomatic speak are located in the world today....and that is unassailably true, even by the most wild eyed muslim fundamentalist....When can we come out and say the reality of the situation, is that Islam hasn't progressed from their last golden age 700 years ago, and the present Saudi Wahhabi sect interpretation of islam is what is root cause of these worldwide issues? yes, i know, the US is fighting its' war against it in a clumsy, relatively stupid manner, but when a country is at war, does it not have the right to refuse the presence of someone who espouses these ideals? i miss nothing by cat stevens not coming to my country.....franlkly, i miss nothing by never letting anyone who espouses "islamic law" on anything but themselves.....other than "intolerance", a PC term thrown around and given far too much weight, why can't a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY DECIDE THE TERMS ON WHO THEY ALLOW IN? And, if steven sgave money to Hamas and publicly supported an internatiinally illegal "fatwa" which the majority of the world ignores as exteemist blather, why is the US intolerant, and a fatwa supported homicide bomber producing group supporter not "intolerant" himself? tyranny, fundamentalism, religous extremism, as soon as it affect ANYONE ELSE THAN THE BELIEVER, is what should never be tolerated....and the followers of Islam are the ones killing in the name of their "god" and their jihad. i don;thear anyone else doing that of any religion, except in rare, psychiotic episodes. so, again, what is lost by not allwoing an individual with these leaning into a country? i see nothing whatsoever lost.....

like the other guy said,he was just refused entry.the only reason he was deported is because he is an example of how Islam makes so much more sense than everything else and cuz he shows americans muslims are not "all out to get them."

Please name me one hijacked plane in the last 35 years that wasn't by a muslim.....waiting....waiting....

When you tell me one hijacked plane in the 5 years that involved a woman.

See it is men who are the problem. :rolleyes:

please name the most backward, oppressive, least free, theocratic, least human rights respecting regional areas areas of the world

The White House?

Cheap dig, I'm sorry.

But using your logic you could say that between the years 1933 and 45 all Germans were evil.

.....please name where is the engagement with the world and spread of democracy and where it isn't

Whaaaaat?

.....just about any national or world security cinsultant in the world would lecture that the hots spots in the world are all concentrated in one region due to lack of engagement with the rest of the world....asian countries, even china, europe, the entire western hemisphere, etc., is all becoming engaged and progressing....the middle eastern and north african countries, which tyou can draw a circle around on a global map, are the ones lagging in EVERYTHING......the non-pc, or literal truth, the islamic countries is where the vast majority of the issues, or "hot zones" in diplomatic speak are located in the world today....and that is unassailably true, even by the most wild eyed muslim fundamentalist....When can we come out and say the reality of the situation, is that Islam hasn't progressed from their last golden age 700 years ago, and the present Saudi Wahhabi sect interpretation of islam is what is root cause of these worldwide issues? yes, i know, the US is fighting its' war against it in a clumsy, relatively stupid manner, but when a country is at war, does it not have the right to refuse the presence of someone who espouses these ideals?

Didn't RRP say he is an Anarchist. How is this logically consistent with Wahhabiism [sp?]

i miss nothing by cat stevens not coming to my country

I miss nothing by Bush not coming to Britain, should we be allowed to stop him coming?

SOVEREIGN COUNTRY DECIDE THE TERMS ON WHO THEY ALLOW IN?
Logically you should allow the state decide who can leave. In favour of the Iron Curtain?

Please name me one hijacked plane in the last 35 years that wasn't by a muslim.....waiting....waiting...

d. b. cooper
richard mccoy, jr.
a huge pile of cubans and people wanting to become them -most hijackings in the us have been people seeking to go to cuba actually*
at least a couple chinese people
etc.

i win

* for example, lorenzo komboa ervin (who is now a rather prominent anarchist). i'm not sure of lorenzo's religious beliefs at the time, but since he was leaning towards marxism i assume he was an atheist when he hijacked a plane to cuba.

d. b. cooper
richard mccoy, jr.
a huge pile of cubans and people wanting to become them -most hijackings in the us have been people seeking to go to cuba actually*
at least a couple chinese people
etc.

i win

* for example, lorenzo komboa ervin (who is now a rather prominent anarchist). i'm not sure of lorenzo's religious beliefs at the time, but since he was leaning towards marxism i assume he was an atheist when he hijacked a plane to cuba.
Remeber, like eight years ago when the comic trope was for terrorists to hijack things to cuba, like all the time. Trains even, I know I've seen that joke.

As Cat Stevens is a Muslim, I think the US government acted quite correctly in kicking him out. As you will see from my Nationstates.com page, my nation is hot on personal freedoms. I feel that Islam doesn't support the principle of libertarianism and therefore should not be tolerated. Political correctists are frequently coming up with bromides about how Islam is a religion of peace. As a result of the Palestinians of pandemic proportions, who gather on the streets to chant "Death to Israel" whenever there is a suicide attack launched against Israel, all I can say is "whatever".

Wow, this thread is still going... well, can't resist a second bite of the cherry.

Graeme, do you even know any Muslims? Don't believe the propaganda that your government (and that of Israel) likes to peddle. Are you actually trying to argue that all Muslims are evil and deserve to be excluded from the USA? Way to antagonise one fifth of the world's population. No, you can't beat them into military submission. You can't even do it to a few dozen million of them in Iraq. Sooner or later you are going to have to intellectually engage with this issue, rather than just dropping bombs and following the neocon fundamentalist Christian line. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE YOUR ENEMY. Unless you choose to make it so, in which case, good luck to you, but I'll be elsewhere.

I'd love to sympathise with America, because it really is not a bad country and really does try its best to be a force for good in the world, but you folks really do need to stop and think a little. For all our sakes.

throughout all of this i have had the opinion that it was an overreaction, but it also begs the question.....Is the PC crusade vs "intolerance" also an insult to common sense? Please name me one hijacked plane in the last 35 years that wasn't by a muslim.

It was on America Most Wanted that TV show, he was a caucasian. I don't remember that episode fully so I can't say name...

please name the most backward, oppressive, least free, theocratic, least human rights respecting regional areas areas of the world

At moment America gettiong on high on list sorry to say.
So Asia? North Korea?

So when are we attacking N. Korea ?

As Cat Stevens is a Muslim, I think the US government acted quite correctly in kicking him out. As you will see from my Nationstates.com page, my nation is hot on personal freedoms. I feel that Islam doesn't support the principle of libertarianism and therefore should not be tolerated. Political correctists are frequently coming up with bromides about how Islam is a religion of peace. As a result of the Palestinians of pandemic proportions, who gather on the streets to chant "Death to Israel" whenever there is a suicide attack launched against Israel, all I can say is "whatever".

If you are "hot on personal freedoms" should that not include the freedom to practice whichever religion one chooses (or no religion if one so chooses) without interference from the state? Libertatianism does not mean you have they right to determine what "should not be tolerated", quite the reverse.

to respond to the two counter points made to my arguments....
the last two jets hijacked and destoyed in russia were by female suicide bombers.........gender isn't the problem...they were muslims

the word "region" includes more than the northern half of a small country.....again, regional hot spots in the world are concentrated in what areas...YEAH! ISLAMIC AREAS! maybe you should try to read a few books by security experts from around the globe....

islam makes the most sense?i don;t see how anyone can explore the koran and say "it makes sense" i really can't.....and i have tried.....and many thinking people i know have, too, and can;t....hell, look at andy rooney's comment on it...."it's absolutely crazy" and he is considered a liberal......

to respond to the two counter points made to my arguments....

the word "region" includes more than the northern half of a small country.....again, regional hot spots in the world are concentrated in what areas...YEAH! ISLAMIC AREAS! maybe you should try to read a few books by security experts from around the globe....

1) do you concede the point about ethnic and religious backgrounds of hijackers?

2) the most backwards, oppressive, least free, etc, region of the world? sub-saharan africa, without question. and islam has shit to do with it.

Please name me one hijacked plane in the last 35 years that wasn't by a muslim.....waiting....waiting....

Theweakperish, try TWA Flight 355 hijaked on September 10 1976 by Croatian terrorists, or All Nippon Airways Flight 61 hijacked by a lone man on July 24, 1999. Sorry, not all terrorists are muslims. See the IRA for a more general example.

TIMOTHY FUCKING McVEY! A WHITE, AMERICAN TERRORIST!

Jesus, its amazing how quickly people forget.

its not just him, most of our terrorists are nazis and other white supremacist groups, and also the fundamentalist christians and militias that sometimes shade into those ideologies.

and if you want to be stupid like the fbi you can throw the elf and alf on there too. but they aren't terrorists.

I saw a neo-Nazi get lynched the other day. It was disgusting.

I saw a neo-Nazi get lynched the other day. It was disgusting.

Why? He'd already bred? ;)

j/k

Que?

Mah pitom?

Je ne sais pas, je suis un ana.

Why? He'd already bred? ;)

j/k

I have, but if you want to try and lynch me your welcome to try any day.

I have, but if you want to try and lynch me your welcome to try any day.

It's good of you to offer, but it's against my principles. I know some angry Socialists who might take you up on that, though.

islam makes the most sense?i don;t see how anyone can explore the koran and say "it makes sense" i really can't.....and i have tried.....and many thinking people i know have, too, and can;t....hell, look at andy rooney's comment on it...."it's absolutely crazy" and he is considered a liberal......

Actually, it's your post that makes no sense. Maybe you should buy yourself a book on basic English grammar before you read anything more complicated than 'Spot the Dog'?

So, the CIA is on the watch list along with Bush Snr?
absolutamente.

absolutamente.

But they are allowed into the USA without being arrested on charges of terrorism or deported for financing terrorists.

Actually, it's your post that makes no sense. Maybe you should buy yourself a book on basic English grammar before you read anything more complicated than 'Spot the Dog'?

Bahahaha.... another quality post by Nidnodistan.. http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/images/icons/icon10.gif

But they are allowed into the USA without being arrested on charges of terrorism or deported for financing terrorists.
Thats why i said...the HS Terrorist-List have little credibility....

remember.... kennedy was on the list...

Thats why i said...the HS Terrorist-List have little credibility....

remember.... kennedy was on the list...

Fair enough.

[Havock]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderland
Initially I was thrilled at the prospect of Homeland Security doing all of America a favor by not letting him back in. Sparing us from his music is definitely a worthwhile cause.

But upon reflection, I'm starting to think that he might end up selling more albums resulting from the publicity this is garnering. His name is in the news for the first time in years and now people will go out and buy his music just to hear what all the fuss is about. Ergo, his music might have a small surge of popularity for a while.

So now I'm back to cursing Homeland Security for this whole flap!



He actually gave up his music in search of spirituality.

The way I see It, they denied him re-entry, not because he "supported" terrorist organizations (C'mon, the man is a hippy), but rather because it's a matter of arrogance in the US.

"Arrogance in the US"...?!

What does that mean..?

WE lost one of the greatest figures of our culture to a rival culture. Here he comes back into the US. The administration does not want to look submisive by just letting Stevens back in. Apparently allowing him to re-enter would be a wounding of American tradition. That is the way our government sees it anyway.

Since when does the deportation of a NON-CITIZEN affect the rights of American citizens? No NON-CITIZEN has a right to enter ANY country if said country does not wish it. It is called sovereignty, I suggest you look it up.

Countries are places, Bill... they don't do anything except host earthquakes. Governments are what make decisions, and this is supposed to be a government by the PEOPLE. Now, when the executive branch goes out of its way to exclude foreigners from visiting my counrty because they don't approve of his values I'm going to get upset. I'm going to see it as an indictment of those values and if I share those values, I'm going to see it as an indictment of me. Sovereignty? yeah, but we're also built on tolerance, freedom of expression and basic decency. Oh, and another thing that you can disagree with: All of mankind is entitled to certain inalienable rights endowed by his creator, not by nation of origin or citizenship status.

What kind of place is the USA turning into?

It's because he is an Anarchist. Thank you, goodnight.

I do agree that this whole issue seems a bit odd. However if it is true that he is a 100% anarchist then it would most certainly be justified. Every single proclaimed anarchist even unknowingly dumb ones that call themselves such but know nothing about it deserve scrutinization from our Nations intelligence agencies.

There are a few honorable mentions about liberties inside the federalist papers #10 'The Union as a Safeguard Against Domestic Faction and Insurrection' they call for moderation and a counter balance (faction) being required to keep a cause and/or an effect from becoming overbearing. Otherwise there would be no reason for a rule of law.

Every single proclaimed anarchist even unknowingly dumb ones that call themselves such but know nothing about it deserve scrutinization from our Nations intelligence agencies.


Why?

Why?

How else can we find out who are the real ones and who are the dumb ones?
A nations security takes precedence over a person that wishes the basis of a nation of laws be uprooted. If we were not able to protect it from within then whats the use of trying to protect it at all.

Don't confuse what I am saying with somone who disproves of many of the laws we have in place in this country as being an anarchist. I am speaking of a true form anarchist that believes there should be no rule of law. This in it self goes against the very priniciple of our republican form of government. Also do not confuse what I am saying with republican form of government with a present or past administration or politcal party. Republic for which it stands is by what means I am writing. As explained within our Federalist Papers.