NationStates Jolt Archive

According to the US State Department, November 2001 (http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/12.htm) - the areas where Al Qaeda operated listed 45 countries. They even provided a lovely graphic:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/images/alqedamap.gif

If you look really closely at the Middle East you note that only one or two countries are NOT listed as Al Qaeda areas of operation.

Of course, the fact that Iraq is one of them should suprise no-one.....

Proving once again that the US State Department also knew before the war that there was no link as suggested by GW. Didn't stop Powell from repeating the party line when asked though did it?

They're not in New Zealand cos they've never heard of it :D


or at least the taliban's diplomats hadn't when asked at a press conference in pakistan...

Proving once again that the US State Department also knew before the war that there was no link as suggested by GW. Didn't stop Powell from repeating the party line when asked though did it?

There were contacts...but no formal cooperation.

There were contacts...but no formal cooperation.

In other words, it was a non-issue from a security standpoint as a reason to go to war. How many terrorist groups has the State department "contacted" if only to ascertain intent or to try to mediate issues? Most of them? Probably....

Diplomacy includes meeting your enemies after all.

That doesn't mean that other terrorist groups were in Iraq at the time, getting money from Sadaam to blow themselves up.

And, if you trust the State Department so much, why don't you believe the Secretary of State when he said that Iraq was involved with terrorism?

According to the US State Department, November 2001 (http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/12.htm) - the areas where Al Qaeda operated listed 45 countries. They even provided a lovely graphic:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/images/alqedamap.gif

If you look really closely at the Middle East you note that only one or two countries are NOT listed as Al Qaeda areas of operation.

Of course, the fact that Iraq is one of them should suprise no-one.....

Proving once again that the US State Department also knew before the war that there was no link as suggested by GW. Didn't stop Powell from repeating the party line when asked though did it?
The 9/11 Commission Report disagrees with you. They found a loose link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Anyone who says Saddam did not have ties with terrorists does not understand how terrorist groups operate.

The 9/11 Commission Report disagrees with you. They found a loose link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Anyone who says Saddam did not have ties with terrorists does not understand how terrorist groups operate.
so i suppose YOU know how they operate? i'm quite sure the central intelligence agency would love to talk to you, maybe some one should dial em up.

In other words, it was a non-issue from a security standpoint as a reason to go to war. How many terrorist groups has the State department "contacted" if only to ascertain intent or to try to mediate issues? Most of them? Probably....

Diplomacy includes meeting your enemies after all.

There were other groups besides Al Qaeda operating in Iraq with Saddam's approval. Al Qaeda is hardly the only terrorist group that has attacked Americans....

so i suppose YOU know how they operate? i'm quite sure the central intelligence agency would love to talk to you, maybe some one should dial em up.
Yes, I do know how they operate. I could tell you how I know, but then I'd have to kill you.

You gonna start already with the insults? You got nuthin'...

According to the US State Department, November 2001 (http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/12.htm) - the areas where Al Qaeda operated listed 45 countries. They even provided a lovely graphic:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/images/alqedamap.gif

If you look really closely at the Middle East you note that only one or two countries are NOT listed as Al Qaeda areas of operation.

Of course, the fact that Iraq is one of them should suprise no-one.....

Proving once again that the US State Department also knew before the war that there was no link as suggested by GW. Didn't stop Powell from repeating the party line when asked though did it?
Hmm..Indonesia is not on the list. Weird.

so i suppose YOU know how they operate? i'm quite sure the central intelligence agency would love to talk to you, maybe some one should dial em up.

I know ....




































Cuz I am a terrorist! PRAISE ALLAH! *the thread explodes*

Yes, I do know how they operate. I could tell you how I know, but then I'd have to kill you.

You gonna start already with the insults? You got nuthin'...
i havnt started anything yet, just playing games with your irrationality

There were other groups besides Al Qaeda operating in Iraq with Saddam's approval. Al Qaeda is hardly the only terrorist group that has attacked Americans....
Ansar al-Islam: used an old airliner fuselage located at an airport near Baghdad for training in hijacking.

The Abu Nidal Organization—named for its leader, a veteran Palestinian terrorist known by the nom de guerre Abu Nidal—is an international terrorist group that has been sponsored by Syria, Libya, and Iraq, and has attacked a wide range of Western, Israeli, and Arab targets. Over the years, the Abu Nidal Organization (ANO) mounted terrorist operations in 20 countries, killing about 300 people and wounding hundreds more.
http://www.terrorismanswers.org/groups/abunidal.html

Among recent developments, in October 1998, Iraqi agents allegedly planned to attack the Prague-based Radio Free Iraq service of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, although no attack occurred. Czech officials say an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague met with September 11 lead hijacker Muhammad Atta in early 2001, reportedly to discuss an attack on the radio facility. Some observers believe the meeting suggests an Iraqi role in the September 11 attacks. Iraq, which historically has had close ties
to Yasir Arafat, has given some support to anti-peace process Palestinian groups, and hosts the Abu Nidal Organization, Abu Abbas’ Palestine Liberation Front, and other minor groups. As a lever in its relations with Iran, Iraq continues to host and provide some older surplus weaponry to the PMOI’s army, the National Liberation Army (NLA), which has bases near the border with Iran. However, Iraq apparently has reduced support for the group as Iraq’s relations with Tehran have improved over the past two years.
"Terrorism: Near Eastern Groups and State Sponsors, 2002"; Federation of American Scientists.

i havnt started anything yet, just playing games with your irrationality
Irrationality? Read my post above. Doesn't get more rational than that.

Read it, and weep. Then drink your Kool-Aid, it will make your pain go away. Forever...

Saddam did support Terrorism. No denying that they did. They supported regional terror and probably had people inside Iraq with full support from Hussein!

Ansar al-Islam: used an old airliner fuselage located at an airport near Baghdad for training in hijacking.

This group could have been funded and supplied by Saddam to attack US interests. That this group fled into Iran is also quite telling as the Iranians have denied they entered intoIran at all.

i havnt started anything yet, just playing games with your irrationality

His post was a direct response to the statement (not by you of course) that their were "no links between Al-Queda and Saddam." By referencing the 9/11 report, he has presented a legitimate source that refutes the idea of a total lack of a link. There is nothing irrational about making a statement then backing it up with a legitimate source. What is evident is that you did try start something by belittling his statement that "if you know anything about how terrorists opporate..." (<--paraphrased of course) when you suggested he should be "dialed up" for info.

Just a thought, not playing games.

His post was a direct response to the statement (not by you of course) that their were "no links between Al-Queda and Saddam." By referencing the 9/11 report, he has presented a legitimate source that refutes the idea of a total lack of a link. There is nothing irrational about making a statement then backing it up with a legitimate source. What is evident is that you did try start something by belittling his statement that "if you know anything about how terrorists opporate..." (<--paraphrased of course) when you suggested he should be "dialed up" for info.

Just a thought, not playing games.
the map is irrelevant to "links" the map is areas where al-qaeda was operating, and iraq was not a place where they were operating, that is to say, not operating there until we got there. there may have been casual letters from osama like "please saddam let us in your country and give us ammo" and saddam was like "no you sux0rs LOL", thats no reason to go invade the country or say "saddam is synonymous with al-qaeda in the war on terrorism"

Irrationality? Read my post above. Doesn't get more rational than that.

Read it, and weep. Then drink your Kool-Aid, it will make your pain go away. Forever...
wo0o0o0o hypocrite.

*paints a picture of galtania riding off into the sunset on his blind fodled high horse and running into a low hanging branch*

why dont you just attach a bicycle pump to your head, its alot easier to inflate your ego that way, and faster

the map is irrelevant to "links" the map is areas where al-qaeda was operating, and iraq was not a place where they were operating, that is to say, not operating there until we got there. there may have been casual letters from osama like "please saddam let us in your country and give us ammo" and saddam was like "no you sux0rs LOL", thats no reason to go invade the country or say "saddam is synonymous with al-qaeda in the war on terrorism"

Did you intentionally ignore everything I said or are you merely running down your "talking points" as you been taught to do when opposed by an opinion not shared by your ideoligy?

we are fucked

from the words of the immortal krump

the map is irrelevant to "links" the map is areas where al-qaeda was operating, and iraq was not a place where they were operating, that is to say, not operating there until we got there. there may have been casual letters from osama like "please saddam let us in your country and give us ammo" and saddam was like "no you sux0rs LOL", thats no reason to go invade the country or say "saddam is synonymous with al-qaeda in the war on terrorism"
This is exactly what I mean when I say you don't understand how terrorists operate. It is a shadowy world of loosely coupled groups, who do everything in their power to cover their tracks and hide their affiliations and operations. They cooperate with each other when it furthers their ends, even if they normally don't agree with one another.

Your use of 1337 Netspeak doesn't help your credibility, except among 14 year old boys who do nothing and know nothing but online gaming.

Did you intentionally ignore everything I said or are you merely running down your "talking points" as you been taught to do when opposed by an opinion not shared by your ideoligy?
speaking of ignoring, you dont address anything i say you just start babbling about you dont like my post, heres an idea, get down off your high horse and pretend your a normal person like the rest of us

and he implied he knew how terrorists work and everyone else didnt, of course im going to belittle or throw the statement back at him one way or another. if he knows how terrorists work im sure hte CIA would love to know

Did you intentionally ignore everything I said or are you merely running down your "talking points" as you been taught to do when opposed by an opinion not shared by your ideoligy?
He's always this way, NH. He's got nothing else. Don't let it bother you, or fool yourself into believing you can reason with him or get him to act rationally. He's just mad because, in terms he can understand, I PWND HIM!

This is exactly what I mean when I say you don't understand how terrorists operate. It is a shadowy world of loosely coupled groups, who do everything in their power to cover their tracks and hide their affiliations and operations. They cooperate with each other when it furthers their ends, even if they normally don't agree with one another.
i have never implied i know how terrorists work, YOU implied YOU knew how it work and then used your republican psychic ability to derive i that i know how terrorists work and thus how i think they work is wrong. *puts on tinfoil hat to reflect republican psychic abilities*

Your use of 1337 Netspeak doesn't help your credibility, except among 14 year old boys who do nothing and know nothing but online gaming.
i have YET to insult you except to referring to you as a hypocrite which you obviously are sicne every post you have made to me has INSULTED me.

He's always this way, NH. He's got nothing else. Don't let it bother you, or fool yourself into believing you can reason with him or get him to act rationally. He's just mad because, in terms he can understand, I PWND HIM!
oh you "pwned" me? by what? using your republican psychic ability to see into my mind and figure out how i think terrorists work because i never even brought up how i think terrorists work or even implied that i know, unlike you, who stated it. then you proceeded to call me a 14 year old kid.

if insults lead to being "pwned" im quite sure i can thoroughly "pwn" you, hypocrite (and i never used "1337 netspeak" but you just did)

speaking of ignoring, you dont address anything i say you just start babbling about you dont like my post, heres an idea, get down off your high horse and pretend your a normal person like the rest of us

and he implied he knew how terrorists work and everyone else didnt, of course im going to belittle or throw the statement back at him one way or another. if he knows how terrorists work im sure hte CIA would love to know

I initiated the conversation between you and I and implicitly set the paramaters of the debate via the content of my first post. I am ignoring what you have to say because it does not address what I initially had to say; your avoidance does not make me want to acquiesce to your requests.

Also, why is that you think I am on a "high horse?" (ps. that is getting a bit hackneyed) I merely critiqued your argument. I suppose anytime some critiques you, you equate it with a direct attack or judgement on your character? Surely this is the outcome of a public school education and its "feel good" reinforcement programs.

Finally why, if you feel his statement is per se false because he migh have come off as suggesting he knew more than you, would you belittle him? Why not beat him with a well structured argument rather than an attempt to be witty?

oh and to please you, I got off my "high horse" to write this response.

Finally why, if you feel his statement is per se false because he migh have come off as suggesting he knew more than you, would you belittle him? Why not beat him with a well structured argument rather than an attempt to be witty?

because knowing galtania a well formulated argument from anyone not of rpeublican persuasion wouldnt matter, and what well formed arguemnt is there to come up with? he sits there and attacks everyone else as stupider than him in saying "you obviously dont know how terrorism works" he simultaneously belittles everyone while implying he is far more intelligent than everyone who disagrees with him? a witty comment was an excellent reply

the map is irrelevant to "links" the map is areas where al-qaeda was operating, and iraq was not a place where they were operating, that is to say, not operating there until we got there. there may have been casual letters from osama like "please saddam let us in your country and give us ammo" and saddam was like "no you sux0rs LOL", thats no reason to go invade the country or say "saddam is synonymous with al-qaeda in the war on terrorism"
What is this post, if not saying how you think terrorists operate? What else could this POSSIBLY be?

And, as my posted and linked sources indicate, it is an incorrect view of the situation in Iraq, pre-invasion.

What is this post, if not saying how you think terrorists operate? What else could this POSSIBLY be?
i was just pointing out what the MAP and YOU said, that terrorists were not operating there. how is that stating or even implying i know how they work? i wasj ust maknig a joke of it other than acknowledging the map said there was no operations there and that you said there was an attempted link

Honestly Galtania you were right, this is ridiculous. I am not belittling you Chess or making a judgement, I just don't have time to go around in circles with you. Differing opinions are one thing, hell i would hate for everyone to share my opinion, but I just don't agree with your approach to debate. To each his own, have fun guys; see you around.

we are fucked

from the words of the immortal krump

Thank you for contributing. :rolleyes:

Ansar al-Islam: used an old airliner fuselage located at an airport near Baghdad for training in hijacking.


No. They didn't. That bit of supposed "intel" was fed by the INC (remember Chalabi), in this case by an ex-officer named Sabah Khalifa Khodada Alami, but the facts were not supported by available evidence afterwards. Kinda like those "mobile WMD labs" that this group claimed to have known about. Other assertions about the training done at this base included supposedly training terrorists to land helicopters on speeding trains to hijack them. Try asking a helicopter pilot about how many flying hours of training THAT would need to pull off....

Besides, this has nothing to do with al qaeda anyway. Ansar Al-Islam was a RIVAL to al qaeda.

The Abu Nidal Organization—named for its leader, a veteran Palestinian terrorist known by the nom de guerre Abu Nidal—is an international terrorist group that has been sponsored by Syria, Libya, and Iraq, and has attacked a wide range of Western, Israeli, and Arab targets. Over the years, the Abu Nidal Organization (ANO) mounted terrorist operations in 20 countries, killing about 300 people and wounding hundreds more.
http://www.terrorismanswers.org/groups/abunidal.html


Which has nothing to do with al qaeda. please TRY to stay on topic.

Among recent developments, in October 1998, Iraqi agents allegedly planned to attack the Prague-based Radio Free Iraq service of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, although no attack occurred. Czech officials say an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague met with September 11 lead hijacker Muhammad Atta in early 2001, reportedly to discuss an attack on the radio facility. Some observers believe the meeting suggests an Iraqi role in the September 11 attacks. Iraq, which historically has had close ties
to Yasir Arafat, has given some support to anti-peace process Palestinian groups, and hosts the Abu Nidal Organization, Abu Abbas’ Palestine Liberation Front, and other minor groups. As a lever in its relations with Iran, Iraq continues to host and provide some older surplus weaponry to the PMOI’s army, the National Liberation Army (NLA), which has bases near the border with Iran. However, Iraq apparently has reduced support for the group as Iraq’s relations with Tehran have improved over the past two years.
"Terrorism: Near Eastern Groups and State Sponsors, 2002"; Federation of American Scientists.

Ah yes - more of that infamous prewar intelligence. Too bad it was wrong (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/17/politics/17prag.html?ex=1402804800&en=56ebe104516cadc8&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND)

A report of a clandestine meeting in Prague between Mohammed Atta and an Iraqi intelligence officer first surfaced shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks. And even though serious doubt was cast on the report, it was repeatedly cited by some Bush administration officials and others as evidence of a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq.

But on Wednesday, the Sept. 11 commission said its investigation had found that the meeting never took place.



Try coming up with evidence supported by facts AFTER the war - not compounding the BS by constantly regurgitating the now-disproven faked crap from before.

This group could have been funded and supplied by Saddam to attack US interests. That this group fled into Iran is also quite telling as the Iranians have denied they entered intoIran at all.


And this group COULD have been funded and supplied by Cat Stevens to be his next backup band.

C'mon Bif, "could have" statements made in that manner are pretty frickin' lame to use in this way. The one thing that certainly HAS been proven lately is that the military gave GW a plan to take out the anwar al-islam base in 2002, but that he elected not to because it's removal would weaken his case for war.

The end result of that, of course, is that Zarqawi is alive and having a grand old time chopping heads off of people.



From GW's standpoint - When your case of war is so flimsy that you are worried that doing the right thing and prosecuting the war on terror by taking out a terrorist camp might mean that you don't get to invade a whole nation - so you decide that the best choice is that you DON'T attack the terrorists .... at that point you must know that your case for war is pretty fricken thin.

Besides, this has nothing to do with al qaeda anyway. Ansar Al-Islam was a RIVAL to al qaeda.

Really?

http://www.iraqinews.com/org_ansar_al-islam.shtml

According to some reports, the group has received $600,000 from al-Qaeda, and a delivery of weapons and Toyota Land Cruisers. There are also reports stating that Ansar al-Islam received $35,000 from the Mukhabarat branch of Iraqi Intelligence Service, in addition to a considerable quantity of arms.

I think there is more to this group than you think....

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ansar.htm

AAnsar al-Islam is a radical Islamist group of Iraqi Kurds and Arabs who have vowed to establish an independent Islamic state in Iraq. It was formed in December 2001 and is closely allied with al-Qaida. Some of its members trained in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan, and the group provided safehaven to al-Qaida fighters before Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Since OIF, it has been one of the leading groups engaged in anti-Coalition attacks

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5571

Some Bush administration and PUK officials claim that Ansar has established chemical weapons facilities in Iraqi Kurdistan. Reports allege that Baghdad helped to smuggle these weapons from Afghanistan and that Ansar has tested substances such as cyanide gas and the poison Ricin. Salih has cited "clear evidence" that such tests have been performed on animals. Moreover, the Washington Post reported that the group smuggled VX nerve gas through Turkey in fall 2001.

OMG they're in Australia!

LETS INVADE AUSTRALIA!!!1!!1!omg

Really?

http://www.iraqinews.com/org_ansar_al-islam.shtml

According to some reports, the group has received $600,000 from al-Qaeda, and a delivery of weapons and Toyota Land Cruisers. There are also reports stating that Ansar al-Islam received $35,000 from the Mukhabarat branch of Iraqi Intelligence Service, in addition to a considerable quantity of arms.

I think there is more to this group than you think....

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ansar.htm

AAnsar al-Islam is a radical Islamist group of Iraqi Kurds and Arabs who have vowed to establish an independent Islamic state in Iraq. It was formed in December 2001 and is closely allied with al-Qaida. Some of its members trained in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan, and the group provided safehaven to al-Qaida fighters before Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Since OIF, it has been one of the leading groups engaged in anti-Coalition attacks

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5571

Some Bush administration and PUK officials claim that Ansar has established chemical weapons facilities in Iraqi Kurdistan. Reports allege that Baghdad helped to smuggle these weapons from Afghanistan and that Ansar has tested substances such as cyanide gas and the poison Ricin. Salih has cited "clear evidence" that such tests have been performed on animals. Moreover, the Washington Post reported that the group smuggled VX nerve gas through Turkey in fall 2001.

Actually,
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3067876/
THE VOLUMINOUS GERMAN records, obtained by NEWSWEEK, seem to undercut highly touted administration claims that Abu Mussab Al Zarqawi, a hardened Jordanian terrorist who once received medical treatment in Baghdad, was a key player in Al Qaeda.

In fact, the secret German records—compiled during interrogations with a captured Zarqawi associate—suggest that the shadowy Zarqawi headed his own terrorist group, called Al Tawhid, with its own goals and may even have been a jealous rival of Al Qaeda.


Indeed, Rumsfeld himself stated in June of this year that the Zarqawi-Bin LAden link was unproven
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=6262
Last month, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld admitted that Zarqawi "may very well not have sworn allegiance to UBL (Osama bin Laden)." Instead, Zarqawi - now linked to the militant Islamic terrorist group Al-Tawhid - has emerged as his own man (some claim a rival to bin Laden) and has become public enemy No. 1 in Iraq.



YEs, this is clearly an extremist group worthy of eradication - which is why I condemn Bush for letting it survive in the name of political expediency. But the links to Osama are NOT well proven. If some surviving Qaeda troops that escaped Afghanistan have joined his side in the current offensive, that still does not prove a pre-existing organizational link.

I think the point of this thread was to show that Bush is an evil liar or something because Al Queda wasn't in Iraq.

Course, no one ever said that they were. And we all know Saddam supported terrorism. I mean really, the guy was a terrorist of the highest order.

YEs, this is clearly an extremist group worthy of eradication - which is why I condemn Bush for letting it survive in the name of political expediency. But the links to Osama are NOT well proven. If some surviving Qaeda troops that escaped Afghanistan have joined his side in the current offensive, that still does not prove a pre-existing organizational link.

Then there is this....

http://vikingphoenix.com/military/terrorism/raid_ansar_al-qaida.htm

BIYARE, Iraq - A U.S.-led assault on a compound controlled by an extremist Islamic group turned up a list of names of suspected militants living in the United States and what may be the strongest evidence yet linking the group to al-Qaida, coalition commanders said Monday.

The cache of documents at the Ansar al-Islam compound, including computer discs and foreign passports belonging to Arab fighters from around the Middle East, could bolster the Bush administration's claims that the two groups are connected, although there was no indication any of the evidence tied Ansar to Saddam Hussein as Washington has maintained.

Coalition forces also found a phone book containing numbers of alleged Islamic activists based in the United States and Europe as well as the number of a Kuwaiti cleric and a letter from Yemen's minister of religion. The names and numbers were not released.

"What we've discovered in Biyare is a very sophisticated operation," said Barham Salih, prime minister of the Kurdish regional government.

Seized computer disks contained evidence showing meetings between Ansar and al-Qaida activists, according to Mahdi Saeed Ali, a military commander.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5571

Some Bush administration and PUK officials claim that Ansar has established chemical weapons facilities in Iraqi Kurdistan. Reports allege that Baghdad helped to smuggle these weapons from Afghanistan and that Ansar has tested substances such as cyanide gas and the poison Ricin. Salih has cited "clear evidence" that such tests have been performed on animals. Moreover, the Washington Post reported that the group smuggled VX nerve gas through Turkey in fall 2001.

No offence, but as with Galtania can you please stop sourcing pre-invasion intelligence reports as supposed statements of fact unless the subsequent discoveries bore them up.

I mean, I could source lots of documentation on mobile WMD labs if you like but that doesn;t make it any more true. And don't you find it odd the claim that Saddam supposedly smuggled WMD INTO Iraq for these people? I mean, this was being claimed when it was also being claimed that he had those very same WMD in his possession! Why would he bother with the hassle of crossing borders in such circumstances? That statement makes no sense at all from people who supposedly believed that he had Ricin stockpiles.

Then there is this....

http://vikingphoenix.com/military/terrorism/raid_ansar_al-qaida.htm

BIYARE, Iraq - A U.S.-led assault on a compound controlled by an extremist Islamic group turned up a list of names of suspected militants living in the United States and what may be the strongest evidence yet linking the group to al-Qaida, coalition commanders said Monday.

The cache of documents at the Ansar al-Islam compound, including computer discs and foreign passports belonging to Arab fighters from around the Middle East, could bolster the Bush administration's claims that the two groups are connected, although there was no indication any of the evidence tied Ansar to Saddam Hussein as Washington has maintained.

Coalition forces also found a phone book containing numbers of alleged Islamic activists based in the United States and Europe as well as the number of a Kuwaiti cleric and a letter from Yemen's minister of religion. The names and numbers were not released.

"What we've discovered in Biyare is a very sophisticated operation," said Barham Salih, prime minister of the Kurdish regional government.

Seized computer disks contained evidence showing meetings between Ansar and al-Qaida activists, according to Mahdi Saeed Ali, a military commander.

Ah yes - VikingPhoenix.com. Always a great news source....



So tell me, when did all of the arrests of al qaeda operatives happen in the US as a result of this intelligence coup?

Surely there must be a ton of news sources on that as it would be a huge blow to the enemy in the War against Terror......

No offence, but as with Galtania can you please stop sourcing pre-invasion intelligence reports as supposed statements of fact unless the subsequent discoveries bore them up.

Sorry Zepp, but you have to look at pre-invasion intel because we used Pre-invasion intel to Invade. They are backing up their claims with links from regional sites. Hell, I've seen those articles on the CNN and Foxnews websites and Fox News has carried both stories. I don't know about CNN so I won't say that they didn't ran it because simply, I don't know.

Some of what they have discovered came AFTER the invasion was complete and some while the invasion was still going on.

So actually, these things did happen. I've heard the reports on this discovery and verified them with other agencies that reported the samething.

Ah yes - VikingPhoenix.com. Always a great news source....



So tell me, when did all of the arrests of al qaeda operatives happen in the US as a result of this intelligence coup?

Surely there must be a ton of news sources on that as it would be a huge blow to the enemy in the War against Terror......

You would be correct and I'm sure that the FBI and the CIA are looking into those names that are on those lists found and that they are being watched. Do you think that we will be that dumb to announce how many people we arrested because of this? I'm surprised the number hasn't leaked yet.

Bif, here is the full statement by Rumsfeld on June 17th of this year
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0406/17/se.01.html


The other thing I would say is that it appears -- I guess I don't know if I should say this or not, but I suppose I can. It appears that Zarqawi, who everyone in the intelligence community seems to agree is engaged as a significant leader of a network in Iraq, and has in his past been identified by at least some intelligence as being a leader with respect to terrorist activities in other countries not just Iraq, may very well not have sworn allegiance to UBL -- maybe because he disagrees with them on something, maybe because he wants to be the man himself, and maybe for a reason that's not known to me.

Now, therefore, someone could legitimately say he's not al Qaeda. On the other hand, as many people have testified to in open hearings, the linkages and the relationships and the similarities in some cases of financing, as well as methods of operation, are such that even though he may not have sworn allegiance, he clearly is someone that is doing work of a very similar nature.


So, like I said - he IS a nasty terrorist that needs to be eradicated.

But in the aftermath of the war even the Administration cannot directly tie him as a confirmed ally to Osama.

Straight from the horse's ass Bif.


Amazing how those old pre-war misstatements live on forever in the perceptions of people....

Sorry Zepp, but you have to look at pre-invasion intel because we used Pre-invasion intel to Invade. They are backing up their claims with links from regional sites. Hell, I've seen those articles on the CNN and Foxnews websites and Fox News has carried both stories. I don't know about CNN so I won't say that they didn't ran it because simply, I don't know.


Well if nothing else, I admire you for using an imaginary FOX news story as your source with a straight face. :D

You would be correct and I'm sure that the FBI and the CIA are looking into those names that are on those lists found and that they are being watched. Do you think that we will be that dumb to announce how many people we arrested because of this? I'm surprised the number hasn't leaked yet.


Ah yes... it's all true - it's just a big secret. Just take our word for it.... :rolleyes:

Have you noticed that the source of the specifics of that "intel" was almost all Kurds and not Americans? And then note that nothing ever came of it? Perhaps you might want to think about that..... and think about the fact that this story was splashed around the news so anyone who might have been on such a list would have known that they were now suspects. You really think that the CIA just kept the list to watch people who knew that they would be being watched?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiggghhhht.


They would have been picked up and interrogated - just like many others were right after 9-11. But that never happened.

The story, therefore, does not add up.

Bif, here is the full statement by Rumsfeld on June 17th of this year
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0406/17/se.01.html




So, like I said - he IS a nasty terrorist that needs to be eradicated.

But in the aftermath of the war even the Administration cannot directly tie him as a confirmed ally to Osama.

Straight from the horse's ass Bif.


Amazing how those old pre-war misstatements live on forever in the perceptions of people....


He is not a member of Anwar Al-Islam. Anwar Al-Islam IS an ally of OBL and they DID and probalby still do operate out of Northern Iraq.

He is not a member of Anwar Al-Islam. Anwar Al-Islam IS an ally of OBL and they DID and probalby still do operate out of Northern Iraq.

Do you have sources for these gems? :D

Well if nothing else, I admire you for using an imaginary FOX news story as your source with a straight face. :D

How was it imaginary? They reported finding the disks and address books right where it occured. So tell me how it was imaginary? I Know I saw the footage on there.

Do you have sources for these gems? :D

Yep....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3483089.stm

A group of militants clad in black stand in front of the banner of Mr Zarqawi's group, Tawhid and Jihad, with their victim kneeling before them.

Although he is thought to have links with al-Qaeda, experts regard his group as autonomous - perhaps even a rival to Osama Bin Laden's organisation.

He is NOT a member of Anwar Al-Islam.

[Zeppistan #1]
According to the US State Department, November 2001 (http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/12.htm) - the areas where Al Qaeda operated listed 45 countries. They even provided a lovely graphic:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/images/alqedamap.gif

If you look really closely at the Middle East you note that only one or two countries are NOT listed as Al Qaeda areas of operation.

Of course, the fact that Iraq is one of them should suprise no-one.....

Proving once again that the US State Department also knew before the war that there was no link as suggested by GW. Didn't stop Powell from repeating the party line when asked though did it?

OK,.. one more time....

The US State Department is NOT a part of America. It is a think-tank, run by extremist lego enthusiasts, dedicated to modeling the entire planet full scale in legos.

What the State Department says is utterly irrelevant to American policy or principles.

Al-qaida is present wherever an al-qaida sympathizer breathes.

This would make the present location of Zeppy (our esteemed author) a hotbed of al-qaida activity.

:D

rofl i was like wtf, then i saw legos, then it was hilarious