NationStates Jolt Archive

Living in the grand ol US of A, I am thoroughly more and more impressed with the stupidity/ineducation/cultural geocentrism/etc frequently displayed in American society.

Believing things like:
1. Invading Iraq will put a dent in Terrorism
2. Global warming is a hoax
3. Our foreign policy has nothing to do with Terrorism
4. We are the only country in the world

And so on and so on...seems to be so well and so frequently displayed in public circles.

We are idiots who elect an idiot President. There is simply no other way to explain the glaring failure who now sits in the Oval Office.

The average american watches 1,500 hours of TV yearly, and spends 90 hours reading. Is anyone surprised that Bush was actually able to goad the public into believing in an Iraq/9-11 connection? Am I living in an alternate reality?

The american political process is sort of a reverse "Weakest Link". The more inept you are, the more unfit you are to lead, the more likely you will be elevated to the highest office in the country.

History and the world will not look on GWB as a "great" or even "good" president. Trying to instill western democracy in the Middle East, turning your back and even regressing in the huge and looming environmental issue, reinstating Clinton-era "backscratch" politics and cronyism, trying to turn America into a theocracy through Faith-Based Initiatives, letting the Assault Weapons Ban expire so people can buy AK-47s, and trying to give democracy at the barrel of a gun, all while touting "war is peace". Beam me up, scottie!

This is simply a symptom of the one man- one vote system that panders to the lowest common denominator: I.E the ignorant masses. Democracy should be given up in favor of a Meritacrocy.

One IQ point:One vote!

"Devil Cheney" fails to realize that his own post is the best proof of his "American Idiot" hypothesis.

This is simply a symptom of the one man- one vote system that panders to the lowest common denominator: I.E the ignorant masses. Democracy should be given up in favor of a Meritacrocy.

One IQ point:One vote!

Yeah, but who designs the test? How do we make sure it's culturally and politically unbiased?

Sometimes, in my nightmares, I see a future where the President is chosen by some Survivor/American Idol/The Apprentice type thing.

Though, come to think of it, the power of the people to vote a politician off the island would perhaps be a good thing...

Yeah, but who designs the test? How do we make sure it's culturally and politically unbiased?

Sometimes, in my nightmares, I see a future where the President is chosen by some Survivor/American Idol/The Apprentice type thing.

Though, come to think of it, the power of the people to vote a politician off the island would perhaps be a good thing...

I'd watch that.

I'd watch that.


I hate reality TV, can't we chose the president by having a gerbil race and the winning gerbil's owner becomes president?

Unless someone where to disguise a brain-eating gerbil as a regular gerbil and it ate John Kerry's brain and he became president....the gerbil not John Kerry.

"Devil Cheney" fails to realize that his own post is the best proof of his "American Idiot" hypothesis.
Maybe you fail to realize what his point is in the first place or how he goes about it. What makes you think you know what he realizes or not?

This is simply a symptom of the one man- one vote system that panders to the lowest common denominator: I.E the ignorant masses. Democracy should be given up in favor of a Meritacrocy.

One IQ point:One vote!

Can we take votes away from people who obviously can't support themselves?

Can we add votes as one attains a higher degree of education ( if you earn a Bachelor's, 2x, if you earn a Master's, 4x, if you earn a doctorate, 6x, and a similar amount if you attain multiple degrees?

Can we add votes for success? If your earned (as opposed to inherited) net worth is beyond a certain amount, doesn't that prove that you have a strong grip of successful living tactics?

The Success votes can be taken away, if someone squanders their money or fails spectacularly.

If so, well... I've got around 800 votes. That should be enough to counter around 50 Kerry voters... :p

I think the problem of stupidity is not only limited to America (though GW does provide a stalwart example). I fear Tony Blair is a bit of a nonce, too. It's kind of worrying when the prime minister is beaten in a debate by a med student less than half his age (it happened!)

Maybe you fail to realize what his point is in the first place or how he goes about it. What makes you think you know what he realizes or not?

He makes his point abundantly clear.

How he goes about it, however, is the proof I refer to.

The fact that he posted it at all shows that he doesn't realize it.

Can we take votes away from people who obviously can't support themselves?

Can we add votes as one attains a higher degree of education ( if you earn a Bachelor's, 2x, if you earn a Master's, 4x, if you earn a doctorate, 6x, and a similar amount if you attain multiple degrees?

Can we add votes for success? If your earned (as opposed to inherited) net worth is beyond a certain amount, doesn't that prove that you have a strong grip of successful living tactics?

The Success votes can be taken away, if someone squanders their money or fails spectacularly.

If so, well... I've got around 800 votes. That should be enough to counter around 50 Kerry voters... :p

Just because someone isnt interested in medicine or collage doesnt mean they dont know what theyre doing politically, although it is the case now that Bush recieves all the stupid, redneck, hillbilly gun-nut, religous cook people votes.

"Devil Cheney" fails to realize that his own post is the best proof of his "American Idiot" hypothesis.
Yes. There are so many erroneous sweeping generalization that I don't feel like pointing them all out. I will point out the most noticeable.

Points 1. and 3. are contradictions... unless thats what your trying to prove. Although I don't think most Americans believe that "our foreign policy has nothing to do with terrorism."

1. and 4. are contradictions. Although this is nitpicking, but still... If we invaded Iraq theres obviously one other country out there. It's best to probably reword 4.

2. is pretty shaky. Although this problem is occuring, it is debateable whether it is as immenent as the liberal enviormentalists so passionately claim.

The statistics stated are uncited--where did they come from? How do we know they are accurate?

How is America a theocracy... any proof?

Have you even read the Assualt Weapons Ban... or are you just scared by the title?

The sweeping generalizations made by the author are baseless and made with no reliable proof whatsoever. The irony of the post is that the style of the post reflects the very thing you are condeming.

I hate reality TV, can't we chose the president by having a gerbil race and the winning gerbil's owner becomes president?

Unless someone where to disguise a brain-eating gerbil as a regular gerbil and it ate John Kerry's brain and he became president....the gerbil not John Kerry.
I think the gerbil would do a lot better than anyone running.

Why must Americans always make stereotypes about other Americans?

Joking, of course.

Really, though, it bothers me when people say "WTF OUR COUNTRY'S STOOPEED!" How is that helping? How is that trying to make a difference? You're just bringing up negative and untrue stereotypes so that you can spark a controversy, even if that wasn't your intent. You're also calling yourself an idiot.

Basically, instead of whining about it online, why not just keep quiet, accept the fact the U.S. isn't perfect and never will be, and try to focus on the good things in life? Dwelling on the nation's stupdity (which you highly exaggerated, by the way) isn't a very pleasant way to live.

Just my two cents.

And the left wonders why they can't get elected. Listen to this fella, there you go. Frankly, the majority is picking between two utter idiots, and pick the one that will hurt them least. Howie Dean and John McCain are more representative of who their parties should be, but the powers that be in the PARTIES are who is to blame, not the public who has to choose between two incompetents. Bush is not a good President, i agree. Kerry would be worse in my opinion. And Dems will never become the majority until they get off this UTTERLY false superiority complex that absolutely nothing backs up....In the good old USA, republican districts tend to be better educated and make significantly more money than the average democratic district, yet dems like this guy will insist repubs are the dumb ones...only, uh, on every measurable on average, dems are dumber.....maybe i insist on fact and statistics too much.....but the american public is not to blame, the political machinery that spits out two sides of the same coin every election is......Your talking to a Nader voter, by the way, not because i support his politics, i oppose almost everything he stands for, but because he tells the truth as he sees it and believes it, ignores special interests, and is not a part of the machine.....

but your very post is EXACTLY why your side will never be popular.....browbeating people by calling them stupid to get them to agree with you? Uh, no......Makes me miss the old school democrats and republicans.....the drift to the ends of the spectrum and divisive nastiness is disgusting......and your post is a perfect example of it.

We didn't elect him. More people did want Gore after all.

Living in the grand ol US of A, I am thoroughly more and more impressed with the stupidity/ineducation/cultural geocentrism/etc frequently displayed in American society.

Believing things like:
1. Invading Iraq will put a dent in Terrorism
2. Global warming is a hoax
3. Our foreign policy has nothing to do with Terrorism
4. We are the only country in the world

And so on and so on...seems to be so well and so frequently displayed in public circles.

We are idiots who elect an idiot President. There is simply no other way to explain the glaring failure who now sits in the Oval Office.

The average american watches 1,500 hours of TV yearly, and spends 90 hours reading. Is anyone surprised that Bush was actually able to goad the public into believing in an Iraq/9-11 connection? Am I living in an alternate reality?

The american political process is sort of a reverse "Weakest Link". The more inept you are, the more unfit you are to lead, the more likely you will be elevated to the highest office in the country.

History and the world will not look on GWB as a "great" or even "good" president. Trying to instill western democracy in the Middle East, turning your back and even regressing in the huge and looming environmental issue, reinstating Clinton-era "backscratch" politics and cronyism, trying to turn America into a theocracy through Faith-Based Initiatives, letting the Assault Weapons Ban expire so people can buy AK-47s, and trying to give democracy at the barrel of a gun, all while touting "war is peace". Beam me up, scottie!
Does George Orwell and "1984" ring a bell?

Just because someone isnt interested in medicine or collage doesnt mean they dont know what theyre doing politically, although it is the case now that Bush recieves all the stupid, redneck, hillbilly gun-nut, religous cook people votes.

"doctorate" doesn't mean "medicine," ignoramus.

Living in the grand ol US of A, I am thoroughly more and more impressed with the stupidity/ineducation/cultural geocentrism/etc frequently displayed in American society.

Believing things like:
1. Invading Iraq will put a dent in Terrorism
2. Global warming is a hoax
3. Our foreign policy has nothing to do with Terrorism
4. We are the only country in the world

And so on and so on...seems to be so well and so frequently displayed in public circles.

We are idiots who elect an idiot President. There is simply no other way to explain the glaring failure who now sits in the Oval Office.

The average american watches 1,500 hours of TV yearly, and spends 90 hours reading. Is anyone surprised that Bush was actually able to goad the public into believing in an Iraq/9-11 connection? Am I living in an alternate reality?

The american political process is sort of a reverse "Weakest Link". The more inept you are, the more unfit you are to lead, the more likely you will be elevated to the highest office in the country.

History and the world will not look on GWB as a "great" or even "good" president. Trying to instill western democracy in the Middle East, turning your back and even regressing in the huge and looming environmental issue, reinstating Clinton-era "backscratch" politics and cronyism, trying to turn America into a theocracy through Faith-Based Initiatives, letting the Assault Weapons Ban expire so people can buy AK-47s, and trying to give democracy at the barrel of a gun, all while touting "war is peace". Beam me up, scottie!


Anyway, by this wise post, you gave the best proof that not all citizens in the US are as dumb as the one you described.

I wish you a lot of courage for telling things the way they are.bTW most people in EU also watch more TV then they read, the US lifestyle is copied by lot's of them.

Does George Orwell and "1984" ring a bell?
Thats overexaggerating the problem. If any SCi-Fi writer got it right, its Frank Herbert in the Dune series.

Thats overexaggerating the problem. If any SCi-Fi writer got it right, its Frank Herbert in the Dune series.
Whatever, America is turning into one of those science-fiction dystopias. A scary thought seeing the military power the US wield... frequently in unskilled hands (like a President who has no clue, or a brain).

On a more serious note:

Living in the grand ol US of A, I am thoroughly more and more impressed with the stupidity/ineducation/cultural geocentrism/etc frequently displayed in American society.

Believing things like:
1. Invading Iraq will put a dent in Terrorism
2. Global warming is a hoax

I agree with you here.

3. Our foreign policy has nothing to do with Terrorism
4. We are the only country in the world

I don't think our foreign policy is a big part of terrorism, it plays a role, still a lot of it has to do with cultural differences that have been brewing since the Tripplean Invasion.

And so on and so on...seems to be so well and so frequently displayed in public circles.

We are idiots who elect an idiot President. There is simply no other way to explain the glaring failure who now sits in the Oval Office.

The average american watches 1,500 hours of TV yearly, and spends 90 hours reading. Is anyone surprised that Bush was actually able to goad the public into believing in an Iraq/9-11 connection? Am I living in an alternate reality?

I really haven't been provided with any evidence to suggest the white house claimed that Iraq was directly connected to 9-11, though Condi Rice said it was indirectly connected.

The american political process is sort of a reverse "Weakest Link". The more inept you are, the more unfit you are to lead, the more likely you will be elevated to the highest office in the country.

That's sort of what Weakest Link is like, around the end the most inept often get kicked off because the others know they'd loose to them in the final round. But that's straying from the topic.

History and the world will not look on GWB as a "great" or even "good" president. Trying to instill western democracy in the Middle East, turning your back and even regressing in the huge and looming environmental issue, reinstating Clinton-era "backscratch" politics and cronyism, trying to turn America into a theocracy through Faith-Based Initiatives,

More or less agreed up to this point.

letting the Assault Weapons Ban expire so people can buy AK-47s, and trying to give democracy at the barrel of a gun, all while touting "war is peace". Beam me up, scottie!

ahahahahaha, you don't know shit about the AW ban do you? newsflash: Not a ban on full autos, not a ban on specifically dangerous weapons, ban on guns with things like folding stocks, silencer acceptability (silencers are allready illegal), grenade launchers (grenades are highly regulated), and bayonet mounts.

I live in Australia, so we are pretty much aligned with the US in most things.

1. I can't believe you can own a high powered automatic weapon!

2. Most of us in the rest of the world do think Americans don't think outside their own country.

3. It was pretty easy to see that Bush invade to Iraq to show his dad "Look I am better than you!" No threat to US or us and we go in. Now we have a country primed for a take over by terrorist leaning groups.

4. For a nation that believes infreedom for all, that base in Cuba is one big reason why you don't have freedom for all.

really the listy goes on and on.

On the whole I do beleive that the US is a good nation and has good people, but like Asutralia right now, run by a fool.

Ummmmm, I just might disregard you as a moron after saying Ak-47's are legal. They still aren't. Many weapons are still banned. Just by another ban though. Go read, something before you make statements of this topic.

Let me get this straight. Because you've been brainwashed by liberals, that gives you the right to call the rest of us idiots. I mean, you have the right but...speak for yourself.

I do agree, however that culturally, America is going down the shitter. I support Bush in most of what he does, but we really need to close the borders off completely, and let people who want to be citizens take the classes, learn the history, AND THE LANGUAGE, and we arrest and immediatly deport any illegal immigrant. This Amnesty is bullshit. We also need to make outsourcing jobs illegal, if a country is too incompitant to be able to employ it's own citizens with it's own jobs, it doesn't deserve our jobs. When every American who needs a job has one, feel free to give it to some guy in India. We need to stop blaming white people for everything, MTV should be illegal, gun control does not work, Ebonics is not a substitute for English, people who sue cigarret industries on the basis that they are to stupid to know that ingesting smoke is bad for you, should be immediately shot, and VCR's should really be easier to program. I have more vices, but I think you get my drift.

P.S. If you are to ignorant to know that Gearge Bush is not a dumb redneck hillbilly, you also deserve to be shot. He may mutilate the English language, but a masters in economics is no walk in the park.

er, according to bad republicans, repub are
hilljacks
gun nuts
religious kooks

using that same intellectual level of posting, if that is fact, then democrats are
criminals
communists
welfare queens/kings

sooooo.....where the hell is the third/fourth/fifth parties?

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Learn history, but not just American history.

We didn't elect him. More people did want Gore after all.
There are so many things Gore could have done to win. He had the ability to reject the Florida law saying that ex felons couldn't vote, winning him Florida. He could have demanded a state wide recount, giving him the win (the final recount, a month or so after Bush was in office, said that Gore would've won). He could have won if he had won West Virginia, a mainly democrat state. He would've won if he won his own state. He probably would've won if he had made it clear that he did invent the internet, which was made up by the bozos at Fox News. The actual quote was something to the sound of "During my term as senator, I took the initiative in helping to create the internet", which was true. The list goes on of our what-ifs. The main thing is getting Kerry elected.

I live in Australia, so we are pretty much aligned with the US in most things.

1. I can't believe you can own a high powered automatic weapon!

BUT YOU CAN'T! I just explained that you can't own a full auto weapon in this country, perhaps a semi auto though, but what's your definition of 'high power"? 50 BMG? Cause if you plan to be a criminal with that then you'll get run broke, it's a good $1.75 a bullet. Most criminals prefer 9mm, the guns are cheap, the ammo is cheap, and the the ammo is pretty much effective.

2. Most of us in the rest of the world do think Americans don't think outside their own country.

How so?

3. It was pretty easy to see that Bush invade to Iraq to show his dad "Look I am better than you!" No threat to US or us and we go in. Now we have a country primed for a take over by terrorist leaning groups.

Yup, international politics can be boilded down to simple family rivalries, sure, why not? Though I do agree that Iraq posed little or no threat esspecially compaired with other nations, I don't think anyone really could have forseen that back in early 2003.

4. For a nation that believes infreedom for all, that base in Cuba is one big reason why you don't have freedom for all.

What? Every news report I see on Guantanamo says it' s a very good quality for POWs.

Wow. If you hate America, move. That simple.

Why don't you go to Cuba, you might like it there. Maybe Slovakia.


Better yet, why don't you work for the Communist Party in Russia! They'd be happy to have you on the team.

i agree that Bush is about the most incompetent president we have had in 75 years.....Wilson was another complete idiot, btw.....But how is Kerry any better?

I have rarely met a truly intelligent, informed person who is completely "left wing" or "right wing", ideological extremism is the shelter of the unintelligent, insecure, and uninformed.....and Kerry strikes me as a typical northeastern leftist.....please notice the lack of use of the term liberal, which is a GOOD word...the modern left in the US and especially Europe doesn't fit it at all anymore....but sheesh, how is Kerry any better? I have read his website, read his speeches, read his interviews.....and i have no idea about what he believes in, because i don't think he knows, he is just a modern opportunistic politician....but is Bush so bad to some people that they'll take anybody else? i guess that would make sense....but won;t get Kerry elected.....


you know what i realized about a week ago? this election doesn;t apply to me. neither of these guys represent me at all....who do they represent? they both rep different brands of special interests, hell, ask Howie Dean.....

Just because someone isnt interested in medicine or collage doesnt mean they dont know what theyre doing politically, although it is the case now that Bush recieves all the stupid, redneck, hillbilly gun-nut, religous cook people votes.

I feel like kicking your ass. I live in a redneck town. I go to a redneck school. We aren't as stupid as you think. We just live different than you, have different prefrences and likes. I think both candidates are morons. I just think Kerry is more of a moron. He called the Nam vet's murderers. Wait, isn't he one? Maybe he meant the people that thought what we were doing was right. Unlike Kerry, my father knew the atrocities the NVA were commiting. ( Pops was in the pre-NAVY seals thing)If he was a murderer, then the NVA were Satan incarnate. Wait, I forget, Kerry was on his boat. He wasn't out in the middle of a god damn jungle. (Well that is too, but I mean ON FOOT, in the middle of no-where,)He never stumbled upon a destroyed South Vietnamese village, its people murdered, or chopped up but still alive; the women raped. Not to mention he'll be a UN pussy.

BUT YOU CAN'T! I just explained that you can't own a full auto weapon in this country, perhaps a semi auto though, but what's your definition of 'high power"? 50 BMG? Cause if you plan to be a criminal with that then you'll get run broke, it's a good $1.75 a bullet. Most criminals prefer 9mm, the guns are cheap, the ammo is cheap, and the the ammo is pretty much effective.

> Even if they fully automatic then a self loading quick fire large magazined weapon of large caliber will kill just as many just as quick.

What the hell do you need such a weapon, oh yes those deer are so dangerous or the king of England my invade that's right.

How so?

> The fact that most of you have no idea what impact your decsions make on the larger world.



Yup, international politics can be boilded down to simple family rivalries, sure, why not? Though I do agree that Iraq posed little or no threat esspecially compaired with other nations, I don't think anyone really could have forseen that back in early 2003.

> Come on, all the investigations about the reports have soon that they were absolute rubbish. We had the same crap forced down our throats by Howard and all I can say is...

"Where are the WMDs?"

"Are Iraq's people safer now than before. NO!"

What? Every news report I see on Guantanamo says it' s a very good quality for POWs.

> They are not POWs, if they were they would have rights.

high caliber is 5.56mm! military rounds.

BUT YOU CAN'T! I just explained that you can't own a full auto weapon in this country, perhaps a semi auto though, but what's your definition of 'high power"? 50 BMG? Cause if you plan to be a criminal with that then you'll get run broke, it's a good $1.75 a bullet. Most criminals prefer 9mm, the guns are cheap, the ammo is cheap, and the the ammo is pretty much effective.



> Lets break this statement down.

I can get 9mm guns and ammo so why do I need bigger. Really that says it all.

It is nearly impossible to get a gun in Australia and your kids can buy them off the street it sounds like. Which county is safer...well us not you.

Gun related deaths in Aus...very few. Gun related crimes...very few.

God bless the US constiution which allows for its citizens to own high powered, quick firing self loading military styled guns!

Living in the grand ol US of A, I am thoroughly more and more impressed with the stupidity/ineducation/cultural geocentrism/etc frequently displayed in American society.

I agree.

Believing things like:
1. Invading Iraq will put a dent in Terrorism

I agree. War is an essential element of human existence. We could not survive without it. On a side note, it is humerous to note that most terrorist acts are by products of the E-Merica regime. the Pax American empire has cloned little dictators and guerillas to battle the American fight over seas. The Sha of Iran, the assassin in the Phillibines, cuba and chilli, the afghans andthere wars with russia... this is where your tax dollars are going friends. Drink up.

2. Global warming is a hoax

That it is. Science has proven that recycling is a crock of shit. Long before holes in the ozone occur to devestate the planet and leave us like Mars, nuclear holocaust and cancer will have obliterated the entire earthly inhabitants. But, green peace man! Hug a rainbow and save the whales, they matter the most... right?

3. Our foreign policy has nothing to do with Terrorism

not sure where your at on that one...

4. We are the only country in the world

Well, America is the only one that matters. should we take note of every relgious camel jockey with an AK up there sleeves? Of course not. Should we really pay that much attention to the British-Socialist experiment gone awry? Poppy cock, as they say. And fuck the Japanese, if anyones invaded us, its the them.

And so on and so on...seems to be so well and so frequently displayed in public circles.

I guess.

We are idiots who elect an idiot President. There is simply no other way to explain the glaring failure who now sits in the Oval Office.

Actually, the board of florida debunked about 25,000 voters. The leader of this board is now a senator, or somesuch. She went through a list and told half the state they couldn't vote. Further, we [the people] don't elect, the electoral elite does.

The average american watches 1,500 hours of TV yearly, and spends 90 hours reading. Is anyone surprised that Bush was actually able to goad the public into believing in an Iraq/9-11 connection? Am I living in an alternate reality?

Generally anytime you get a bunch of angry NYers, anyone and everyone is a target. They would have invaded tibet if a monk had filled the jets fuel order.

The american political process is sort of a reverse "Weakest Link". The more inept you are, the more unfit you are to lead, the more likely you will be elevated to the highest office in the country.

Of course. And why not? The president is just there to be laughed at and prodded. The real power belongs to congress, which most people pay little attention to unless it was Ted Kennedy.

History and the world will not look on GWB as a "great" or even "good" president. Trying to instill western democracy in the Middle East, turning your back and even regressing in the huge and looming environmental issue, reinstating Clinton-era "backscratch" politics and cronyism, trying to turn America into a theocracy through Faith-Based Initiatives, letting the Assault Weapons Ban expire so people can buy AK-47s, and trying to give democracy at the barrel of a gun, all while touting "war is peace". Beam me up, scottie!

Well, we're about to hit our 300th year, so its about time for a cultural meltdown. Thats right folks, the fall of america is nigh.

[lol- we need more humor, right?]

BUT YOU CAN'T! I just explained that you can't own a full auto weapon in this country, perhaps a semi auto though, but what's your definition of 'high power"? 50 BMG? Cause if you plan to be a criminal with that then you'll get run broke, it's a good $1.75 a bullet. Most criminals prefer 9mm, the guns are cheap, the ammo is cheap, and the the ammo is pretty much effective.

> Even if they fully automatic then a self loading quick fire large magazined weapon of large caliber will kill just as many just as quick.

What the hell do you need such a weapon, oh yes those deer are so dangerous or the king of England my invade that's right.

Average number of bullets used in a crime: 3.5

Shall we ban all magazines with a higher capacity than 2?

Also "Assault Weapons" can't be stopped from being sold on the black market, and why would a criminal want a large, expensive, hard to conceal weapon to begin with?

Not to mention the fact taht the AW ban doesn't ban all semi-auto rifles, therefore you don't have much defence there.

Also "assault weapons" tend to be wonderful target rifles.


What? Every news report I see on Guantanamo says it' s a very good quality for POWs.

> They are not POWs, if they were they would have rights.

Just cite one report, just one (of course from a reliable news source, eg CNN, NBC, FOX, Yahoo News et cetra) that says that Guantanamo prisoners are being treated unfairly.

I like Russia more than I like the US... Oh, did I loose endorsements there?
But you saying that you don't like Russians is as idiotic as we in the EU saying that we don't like Americans. It's the same thing, you see, but we all say it wrong; it's supposed to be "I don't like the US/Russian politics".
*yawn* Don't care to bring my post into the discussion even, these threads only goes on forever.

And yes, I did enjoy writing this post even if it doesn't make any difference at all.




BTW. What's the ridiculous sh*t about your intelligence agency having the right to do whatever they want, as long as it stays outside the eyes of the people? You're not some police governing the world, although some might think so.

Let me get this straight. Because you've been brainwashed by liberals, that gives you the right to call the rest of us idiots. I mean, you have the right but...speak for yourself.

I do agree, however that culturally, America is going down the shitter. I support Bush in most of what he does, but we really need to close the borders off completely, and let people who want to be citizens take the classes, learn the history, AND THE LANGUAGE, and we arrest and immediatly deport any illegal immigrant. This Amnesty is bullshit. We also need to make outsourcing jobs illegal, if a country is too incompitant to be able to employ it's own citizens with it's own jobs, it doesn't deserve our jobs. When every American who needs a job has one, feel free to give it to some guy in India. We need to stop blaming white people for everything, MTV should be illegal, gun control does not work, Ebonics is not a substitute for English, people who sue cigarret industries on the basis that they are to stupid to know that ingesting smoke is bad for you, should be immediately shot, and VCR's should really be easier to program. I have more vices, but I think you get my drift.

P.S. If you are to ignorant to know that Gearge Bush is not a dumb redneck hillbilly, you also deserve to be shot. He may mutilate the English language, but a masters in economics is no walk in the park.

I agree completely (except for the MTV thing... if kids want to waste their lives watching it, fine by me. They can serve me hamburgers at Wendy's in twenty years or so), especially about the immigrant issue; if you want to live in an English-speaking country, you better take the effort to learn English. I'd do everything in my power to learn the language of another country if I knew I was going to live there. It's a sign of respect and it makes life a hell of a lot easier for you (and the natives as well - I hate trying to buy things when the man behind the cash register only knows five words of English).

I disagree about the gun control, however - sure, there will always be those who evade the rules, but it still makes the country safer than if there were no rules at all.

To the rest... well-said! :)

Thats overexaggerating the problem. If any SCi-Fi writer got it right, its Frank Herbert in the Dune series.

If anyone has read Dune, then they should agree with me.

Herbert railed against the figurehead, the messia, the charismatic leader. They are the problem. This election is becoming less about politics and more about the people extolling them. A popular election, though the closest thing to true freedom we can attain, it is inherently flawed because it becomes a popularity contest (really. I am not anti-democracy). And this meshes perfectly with the mass media of tosay, who can beam hours of information to us in this contest. If only we could have the 'juried' democracy of the Bene Gesserit...

I am a libertarian/conservative, by the way. This election is blowing my mind. Things matter, but they are swept away by the arguement "who is better", versus "what will be accomplished".

Yup, international politics can be boilded down to simple family rivalries, sure, why not? Though I do agree that Iraq posed little or no threat esspecially compaired with other nations, I don't think anyone really could have forseen that back in early 2003.

> Come on, all the investigations about the reports have soon that they were absolute rubbish. We had the same crap forced down our throats by Howard and all I can say is...

"Where are the WMDs?"

"Are Iraq's people safer now than before. NO!"

That was kind of my point, why don't you get a time machine and go back to 2003 so you can tell everyone Iraq had no WMDs back when we didn't know?

Also WMDs are pretty hard to find when it comes down to it, an aerosal can worth of chem weapons could probably knock out a small city.

BUT YOU CAN'T! I just explained that you can't own a full auto weapon in this country, perhaps a semi auto though, but what's your definition of 'high power"? 50 BMG? Cause if you plan to be a criminal with that then you'll get run broke, it's a good $1.75 a bullet. Most criminals prefer 9mm, the guns are cheap, the ammo is cheap, and the the ammo is pretty much effective.


A bullet to the head, no matter what type, will kill indiscriminately...

Either way, you're screwed if you find yourself in this position...

Average number of bullets used in a crime: 3.5

Shall we ban all magazines with a higher capacity than 2?

Also "Assault Weapons" can't be stopped from being sold on the black market, and why would a criminal want a large, expensive, hard to conceal weapon to begin with?

Not to mention the fact taht the AW ban doesn't ban all semi-auto rifles, therefore you don't have much defence there.

Also "assault weapons" tend to be wonderful target rifles.

GM> And what targets do they have...poeple!

You just hold on to your out dated beliefs that a hand gun will protect you.

And if you have lots of guns then yes the black market can sell lots of guns.

As i said low guns in Aus and low gun crimes. US lots of guns and high gun crimes

Just cite one report, just one (of course from a reliable news source, eg CNN, NBC, FOX, Yahoo News et cetra) that says that Guantanamo prisoners are being treated unfairly.


Funny that! Since all the detainees have access to the media. Humm.. maybe the US forces have stopped them complaining to the media!

Also all of the released detainees in the UK have made complaints about the treatment. And that fact that the people who where in charge of the Guananamo lot went over to Iraq and introduced the SAME rules to that prison.

If you legal don't exist under either POW laws or international laws then what rights do you have? I would say NONE!

Let me correct myself: I said one IQ point-one vote. That wouldn't work, because there are some very intelligent pople who are totally non-funtional in society, while some less intelligent function fine. Perhaps a system based around an inverse ratio of ones exposure too, and acceptance of pop-culture. Poeple are sheep and easily lead, therefore those who refuse to follow should be the leaders.

A formula for Despotism, or anarchy.

As i said low guns in Aus and low gun crimes. US lots of guns and high gun crimes


Well as a counter example... http://belize1.com/BzLibrary/trust401.html

Well as a counter example... http://belize1.com/BzLibrary/trust401.html

One report OK I will buy that it is on the increase.

It is hard though to increase something which is maxed out, like gun crimes in the US.

A little but ture stroy about my father and his choice of either moving to the US or to Australia.

He asked the US embassy about moving over and they said

"Yes we have a safe street for you to move into"

My fathers reply

"What, no cars so my kids can play on the streets?"

The reply

"No. No gun crimes in that area!"

As you guess we came to Australia.

And that was 1970!


The more you allow guns the more crimes and accidents occur becuse of those guns.

Places like UK and Aus have tight restrictions and they are only getting tighter.

I agree if you want to buy a gun then using the black market you can get one. BUT no guns available to lesser criminals and to the ordinary folks means these chances of death from gun fire.

Also means less chances of a grumpy ex-worker to walk into there old work and gun down all the workers still there. Or have kids walk into a school and kill fellow students.

I know for a fact that Aus schools DON'T have metal detectors!


Psst.. Australia is not a colony of the UK, so the facts about the UK really don't work over here.

Is this another example of US folks not understanding the world map?

One report OK I will buy that it is on the increase.

It is hard though to increase something which is maxed out, like gun crimes in the US.


Not on the increase. Above US gun crime. Thus it went over the "maxed out" limit.

We all know that statistics can be made to say anything.

I find it hard to beleive that the UK, of which I don't hear of mass killings, has a higher gun crime rate than the US. Which still has the highest murder rates by gun death than any where else.



You should read the statement. It does not say that gun crimes have gone up just crime has.

That can be caused by many factors, of which the writer states it was increase prior to the gun ban anyway.

He probably would've won if he had made it clear that he did invent the internet, which was made up by the bozos at Fox News. The actual quote was something to the sound of "During my term as senator, I took the initiative in helping to create the internet", which was true.

You are a complete IDIOT!

http://www.hitmill.com/internet/web_history.asp

BUT YOU CAN'T! I just explained that you can't own a full auto weapon in this country, perhaps a semi auto though, but what's your definition of 'high power"? 50 BMG? Cause if you plan to be a criminal with that then you'll get run broke, it's a good $1.75 a bullet. Most criminals prefer 9mm, the guns are cheap, the ammo is cheap, and the the ammo is pretty much effective.

> Even if they fully automatic then a self loading quick fire large magazined weapon of large caliber will kill just as many just as quick.

What the hell do you need such a weapon, oh yes those deer are so dangerous or the king of England my invade that's right.

it's not having the weapons that is the problem, it's the principle of the invasion on our rights. This is what the ammendments were put there to prevent, and now the government and gun control nuts are stomping all over one of them. Plus, whats so bad about such weapons? Less than 1% of crimes involving guns in the US are commited with full autos. and banning guns won't solve the problems of murder and such. Their (people) committing a really bad crime if they kill someone anyway, do you honeslty think that by making them illegal, it will prevent the crime?

How so?

> The fact that most of you have no idea what impact your decsions make on the larger world.



Yup, international politics can be boilded down to simple family rivalries, sure, why not? Though I do agree that Iraq posed little or no threat esspecially compaired with other nations, I don't think anyone really could have forseen that back in early 2003.

> Come on, all the investigations about the reports have soon that they were absolute rubbish. We had the same crap forced down our throats by Howard and all I can say is...

"Where are the WMDs?"

Are you not creative enough to come up with a new argument? They found canisters of mustard gas and other vile gases and such, and if you choose to argue that those are not W'sMD, you choose to quibble over terms. I call the murder of thousands of people by a ruthless and psychotic dictator mass destruction. If you're trying to say that Saddam didn't have an armed warhead aimed at the US, all I have to say is that if thats what you thought we'd find, you were sadly mistaken. Bush even said, " Saddam Hussein is not an emminant threat..."

"Are Iraq's people safer now than before. NO!"

That's a very subjective question, and many would argue otherwise. Would you mind elaborating on what brought you to this conclusion, and if the answer is something along the lines of "Well, George Bush is a dummy." or "It was all about the oil" I'm not converted.

What? Every news report I see on Guantanamo says it' s a very good quality for POWs.

> They are not POWs, if they were they would have rights.

Are you trying to suggest that we're mistreating them too? Are you tring to draw a parralel between Guantanamo and Abu Graib? Because they are two very different situations. And what do you mean, "If they were, they would have rights" They are POW's, and they're treated just fine. And if you think the way we treat them is substandard, would you preferr that we use their methods? Ya know, breaking limbs, castrations, other forms of torture, what about their favorite, cutting off people's heads with rusty steak knives.

Are you trying to suggest that we're mistreating them too? Are you tring to draw a parralel between Guantanamo and Abu Graib? Because they are two very different situations. And what do you mean, "If they were, they would have rights" They are POW's, and they're treated just fine. And if you think the way we treat them is substandard, would you preferr that we use their methods? Ya know, breaking limbs, castrations, other forms of torture, what about their favorite, cutting off people's heads with rusty steak knives.

yes the RIGHT to own a gun was put into effect during what era...when guns were flint locks NOT high powered semi auotmatic guns or 9mm semi auto pistols.

That is such a lame agruement you are taking away my rights. What about the fact that you are killing weach other on a regular basis using these rights?

I think that the murders in Iraq should be brought to trial, if guilty locked away for life. This is a seprate arguement than the detainees in Cuba.


Are you tring to draw a parralel between Guantanamo and Abu Graib?

Yes. to point out that the same people are in charge using the same rules. Thus just becuase you have not heard anyhting does not mean it does not or has not happened in cuba.

They are not POWs as as stated by your US government.

We all know that statistics can be made to say anything.

I find it hard to beleive that the UK, of which I don't hear of mass killings, has a higher gun crime rate than the US. Which still has the highest murder rates by gun death than any where else.



You should read the statement. It does not say that gun crimes have gone up just crime has.

That can be caused by many factors, of which the writer states it was increase prior to the gun ban anyway.
We all know don't we? Well the fact is the science of statistics has been perverted into a helpless tool in proving a point. Statistics if used correctly, say only one thing and one thing only.

How many mass killings have you heard of in the US? Where do you get that statistic that US has the highest murder rate by gun than anyone else... What about injury by gun? The statement says that 2/3rds of the crimes involved firearms... hmm.

yes the RIGHT to own a gun was put into effect during what era...when guns were flint locks NOT high powered semi auotmatic guns or 9mm semi auto pistols.

That is such a lame agruement you are taking away my rights. What about the fact that you are killing weach other on a regular basis using these rights?

I think that the murders in Iraq should be brought to trial, if guilty locked away for life. This is a seprate arguement than the detainees in Cuba.




Yes. to point out that the same people are in charge using the same rules. Thus just becuase you have not heard anyhting does not mean it does not or has not happened in cuba.

They are not POWs as as stated by your US government.

So you're suggesting that because some people decide to gun people down, making the rest of us defensless to them is going to make it all better? And don't try to tell me that the constitution needs to change with the times. " You can exercise freedom of speech, when it doesn't pertain to anything bad about the government. You can exercise the right to peaceably assemble, but only on the weekends, politicians have work to do during the week." My point is, if you start stomping on one of our rights, nothing is to keep you from simply modifying them all to what is convenient for the government. And even if you take away the right to petition the government, or peacably assemble, people are still going to do it. Use common sense, not the leftist, utopian mindset.

Frankly, I say take everyone in Guantanimo Bay, line 'em up against a wall, and execute them. Save a lot of money. And they're terrorists -- low life sub-human blotches on existance. They don't deserve to live.

The United States has every right to use everything in its power to defend itself from imminent threats -- whether they be immediate or developing.

Frankly, I say take everyone in Guantanimo Bay, line 'em up against a wall, and execute them. Save a lot of money. And they're terrorists -- low life sub-human blotches on existance. They don't deserve to live.

The United States has every right to use everything in its power to defend itself from imminent threats -- whether they be immediate or developing.

How do you know they are guilty?

How do you know they are guilty?

They're in Guantanamo for a reason...

Also burglary and larceny rates in the US compared to other nations are very very low. I wonder why?...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502.pdf

So you're suggesting that because some people decide to gun people down, making the rest of us defensless to them is going to make it all better? And don't try to tell me that the constitution needs to change with the times. " You can exercise freedom of speech, when it doesn't pertain to anything bad about the government. You can exercise the right to peaceably assemble, but only on the weekends, politicians have work to do during the week." My point is, if you start stomping on one of our rights, nothing is to keep you from simply modifying them all to what is convenient for the government. And even if you take away the right to petition the government, or peacably assemble, people are still going to do it. Use common sense, not the leftist, utopian mindset.


Autralia is not a leftist utopian country and we don't have lots of guns on the streets.

Well if you want to have lots of guns then you can have them.

You are just doing the wok for the terrorist as US are killing US

They're in Guantanamo for a reason...

and yes thats what the legal system you up hold so dearly is there to decide, not the military who have no rights to try these people.

I love to discuss this with you brain dead losers in the US, but I must now go and have a real life not under the threat of being killed by a gun or being locked away with no international rights.

How do you know they are guilty?

They would not have been sent there if they were not fighing US troops or aiding terrorists.

Kill them all, frankly.

Carpet Bomb Fallugah (sp. wrong, I know), too. Save American lives -- and that is FIRST priority.

and yes thats what the legal system you up hold so dearly is there to decide, not the military who have no rights to try these people.

Frankly, they don't deserve a trial. They are not US citizens, they don't get protected by our constitution. Kill them ALL!

and yes thats what the legal system you up hold so dearly is there to decide, not the military who have no rights to try these people.

I love to discuss this with you brain dead losers in the US, but I must now go and have a real life not under the threat of being killed by a gun or being locked away with no international rights.

I don't up hold our legal system so dearly, I up hold our rights, there is a big difference. Our legal system is a mess, thats why it is important to make sure that your not getting trampled on. And, that "fact" is also very subjective. You think we should let them shoot at us, with a slap on the wrist, I think they should be held accountable for their actions.

And we're braindead? when Your only agrument is a personal attack on the citizens of America? hmm... Anyhow, I too need to get back to my life of getting shot at, and arrested for no apparent reason.

A BBC news article on That Base In Cuba http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3619055.stm

Washington says the detainees at Guantanamo Bay are "enemy combatants" who have no right to lawyers and may be held indefinitely without charge.

I don't know about the conditions under which the prisoners are kept, whether they are physically abused or what have you but the fact they are detained indefinately without trial does not mesh well with traditional american values such as "freedom" and "justice". It also seems to ammount to serveral violations of the universal declaration of human rights (i reckon articles 3, 6, 7, 10, 11 & 13), the details of which can be found here: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Also:
Originally Posted by Shannah
And if you think the way we treat them is substandard, would you preferr that we use their methods? Ya know, breaking limbs, castrations, other forms of torture, what about their favorite, cutting off people's heads with rusty steak knives.

This is a moot point. The idea of human rights isn't to be able to take the moral high ground ("we treat out POWs better than you! :p"), it's to make sure all people are treated with the fairness and respect they deserve as human beings.

Finally as a preemptive measure I'd like to say I'm quite aware that many other countries routinely violate the human rights declaration to a greater degree than this. However that does not justify the situation these prisoners are in. "But they do it too!" is not a valid argument.

I don't up hold our legal system so dearly, I up hold our rights, there is a big difference.
What about their own rights?

You think we should let them shoot at us, with a slap on the wrist, I think they should be held accountable for their actions.
Well I think they should be held accountable too... after fair and due process in a court of law, which should take place as soon as possible (hint: this should take less than two years of detention).

What about their own rights?


Well I think they should be held accountable too... after fair and due process in a court of law, which should take place as soon as possible (hint: this should take less than two years of detention).

I hope you don't mean that they're entitled to the same rights and privelages, (this includes our policy of due process) as American citezens., because if that is what you're talking about, can you please explain to me what your logic and reason is for such an outrageous ideology. They are not America citezens, therefore, they are/should not be entitled to the same rights and privelages as American citizens. Am I missing something?

I hope you don't mean that they're entitled to the same rights and privelages, (this includes our policy of due process) as American citezens., because if that is what you're talking about, can you please explain to me what your logic and reason is for such an outrageous ideology. They are not America citezens, therefore, they are/should not be entitled to the same rights and privelages as American citizens. Am I missing something?
Actually POWs or not (these are not POWs anyway) are protected by the Geneva Conventions and International Law. The US is in breach of both, and signatory of both. The atrocious situation of Guantanamo Bay is another reason why the US have lost legitimacy to claim moral highground on anything.

It's like the Nazi Germans of 1940 claiming they should protect Israel. Hypocrisy beyond belief.

That it is. Science has proven that recycling is a crock of shit. Long before holes in the ozone occur to devestate the planet and leave us like Mars, nuclear holocaust and cancer will have obliterated the entire earthly inhabitants. But, green peace man! Hug a rainbow and save the whales, they matter the most... right?



You choose your science pretty interestingly. I know there is this Danish guy who actually has it right in some points but pretty badly wrong in most points, but he's the only one I know opposing the idea. Alright noone knows the speed of climate changes but the latest researches say it may happen in 8-15 years. It has happened as quickly several times before. Everything scientist are saying about what's going to happen is just quessing. At the moment probably the best quesses are that
ice on the polar areas will smelt which will rise the sea level by some 18 feet.
because of that the warming will be even more rapid as the ice reflects the radiation from sun much more efficiently than oceans.
because of that the Golf-stream will change
because of that northern Europe will be like Siperia
floods and storms will get even worse (already 4 in Caribbean this year..rings a bell?)
etc etc.

So save the wales. Wales are nicer than humans

Frankly, I say take everyone in Guantanimo Bay, line 'em up against a wall, and execute them. Save a lot of money. And they're terrorists -- low life sub-human blotches on existance. They don't deserve to live.

The United States has every right to use everything in its power to defend itself from imminent threats -- whether they be immediate or developing.
Oh all those 14, sorry now 16 year old boys who have never been outside Afghanistan? Are they the imminent threats? Or maybe the ones living in US studying how to fly planes are a bit bigger threat than some teenagers in a very distant country. Most of the terrorists (in 9/11) were saudis, bomb them and live the iraqis alone. But hey, now it's too late.

I hope you don't mean that they're entitled to the same rights and privelages, (this includes our policy of due process) as American citezens., because if that is what you're talking about, can you please explain to me what your logic and reason is for such an outrageous ideology. They are not America citezens, therefore, they are/should not be entitled to the same rights and privelages as American citizens. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing fairness. If you as an American believe that the rights, privileges and freedom of American citizens extend only to American citizens, and that American freedom can be preserved by traducing the freedom of all those people in the world that happen to not be American citizens, then you believe it is ok for you to shit on people to get your own way, just as long as the people you shit on aren't American.

In that case, you ought to spend the rest of your life watching your back for foreign terrorists.

They would not have been sent there if they were not fighing US troops or aiding terrorists.

Kill them all, frankly.

Carpet Bomb Fallugah (sp. wrong, I know), too. Save American lives -- and that is FIRST priority.
And why were US troops killing them in their country?
If you bomb Fallujah (as you have done for example during last night), how does it save American lives. With every bombing you'll get more enemies than you manage to kill in the bombings. End up with more and more casualties.

What reason?

At least some of them are in there because they were fighting a war against foreigners who came to their country with heavy weapons and attacked them.

Frankly, they don't deserve a trial. They are not US citizens, they don't get protected by our constitution. Kill them ALL!

I know it's very stupid to write anything here, but I can't help myself. They are not US citizens and therefore should be executed without any proof that they have done anything...
Hmm....Should other countries start executing americans? Just because we may have a small disagreement?

Believing things like:
2. Global warming is a hoax


In fact, global warming is a hoax.

Clueless persons are blaming global warming for the sharp uptick in hurricane and typhoon activity this year. But in the Western Hemisphere, perhaps worldwide, the summer of 2004 has been the coolest summer on record. This is an empirical fact that cannot be manipulated by those with whatever agenda. Which does not work in your favor, I'm afraid.
(And I say this as a person who has had the eye of two hurricanes pass directly over my humble abode in the last three weeks.)

Discipulus, methinks you must needs study statistics. Wonderous principles such as the law of averages will be revealed unto you. And science has wonders of its own to reveal, once your mind is freed from its current quasi-religious new age constraints.

I do agree, however, that most people are sheeple.

Yourself, for example. You have just perfectly parroted the standard liberal line, verbatim. Nary a deviation from the media's premasticated, perfidious PC pap (I do love alliteration). All the while believing rather proudly that you are avant guarde in your thinking. Myself, I think things through. Analyze hard facts. Search out primary documentation. Read between the lines. Study History. Observe current patterns and trends. Discern geopolitical motives. Factor in human nature and chaos. Understand that much is still a mystery. Realize my own (though relatively minor) analytical limitations. And somehow I arrive at a worldview that doesn't look like either side of the Hegelian dialectic currently at work in this country. Dare I hope that someday you may do the same?

No.

In fact, global warming is a hoax.

Clueless persons are blaming global warming for the sharp uptick in hurricane and typhoon activity this year. But in the Western Hemisphere, perhaps worldwide, the summer of 2004 has been the coolest summer on record. This is an empirical fact that cannot be manipulated by those with whatever agenda. Which does not work in your favor, I'm afraid.
(And I say this as a person who has had the eye of two hurricanes pass directly over my humble abode in the last three weeks.)

Discipulus, methinks you must needs study statistics. Wonderous principles such as the law of averages will be revealed unto you. And science has wonders of its own to reveal, once your mind is freed from its current quasi-religious new age constraints.

You say that global warming is hoax because there has been a cool summer? And you even mention statistics yourself. You really think one can say anything about a climate change only by what's happened during ONE year?
Check the statistics of climate change during the last 50 years.
http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/Climate.html
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/048.htm
start with those.