NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.hughhewitt.com/#postid927

From a Marine Corps Major in Baghdad:

"A thought from Iraq - "Doom & Gloom about Iraq's future....I don't see it from where I'm sitting."

[For those of you who haven't gotten my "Thoughts" before, I'm a Major in the USMC on the Multi-National Corps staff in Baghdad. The analysts and pundits who don't see what I see on a daily basis, in my opinion, have very little credibility to talk about the situation - especially if they have yet to set foot in Iraq. Everything Americans believe about Iraq is simply perception filtered through one's latent prejudices until you are face-to-face with reality. If you haven't seen, or don't remember, the John Wayne movie, The Green Berets , you should watch it this weekend. Pay special attention to the character of the reporter, Mr. Beckwith (the Journalist in the movie) . His characters experience is directly related to the situation here. You'll have a different perspective on Iraq after the movie is over.]

The US media is abuzz today with the news of an intelligence report that is very negative about the prospects for Iraq's future. CNN's website says, "[The] National Intelligence Estimate was sent to the White House in July with a classified warning predicting the best case for Iraq was 'tenuous stability' and the worst case was civil war." That report, along with the car bombings and kidnappings in Baghdad in the past couple days are being portrayed in the media as more proof of absolute chaos and the intransigence of the insurgency.

From where I sit, at the Operational Headquarters in Baghdad, that just isn't the case. Let's lay out some background, first about the "National Intelligence Estimate." The most glaring issue with its relevance is the fact that it was delivered to the White House in July . That means that the information that was used to derive the intelligence was gathered in the Spring - in the immediate aftermath of the April battle for Fallujah, and other events. The report doesn't cover what has happened in July or August, let alone September.

The naysayers will point to the recent battles in Najaf and draw parallels between that and what happened in Fallujah in April. They aren't even close. The bad guys did us a HUGE favor by gathering together in one place and trying to make a stand. It allowed us to focus on them and defeat them. Make no mistake, Al Sadr's troops were thoroughly smashed. The estimated enemy killed in action is huge. Before the battles, the residents of the city were afraid to walk the streets. Al Sadr's enforcers would seize people and bring them to his Islamic court where sentence was passed for religious or other violations. Long before the battles people were looking for their lost loved ones who had been taken to "court" and never seen again. Now Najafians can and do walk their streets in safety. Commerce has returned and the city is being rebuilt. Iraqi security forces and US troops are welcomed and smiled upon. That city was liberated again. It was not like Fallujah - the bad guys lost and are in hiding or dead.

You may not have even heard about the city of Samarra. Two weeks ago, that Sunni Triangle city was a "No-go" area for US troops. But guess what? The locals got sick of living in fear from the insurgents and foreign fighters that were there and let them know they weren't welcome. They stopped hosting them in their houses and the mayor of the town brokered a deal with the US commander to return Iraqi government sovereignty to the city without a fight. The people saw what was on the horizon and decided they didn't want their city looking like Fallujah in April or Najaf in August.

Boom, boom, just like that two major "hot spots" cool down in rapid succession. Does that mean that those towns are completely pacified? No. What it does mean is that we are learning how to do this the right way. The US commander in Samarra saw an opportunity and took it - probably the biggest victory of his military career and nary a shot was fired in anger. Things will still happen in those cities, and you can be sure that the bad guys really want to take them back. Those achievements, more than anything else in my opinion, account for the surge in violence in recent days - especially the violence directed at Iraqis by the insurgents. Both in Najaf and Samarra ordinary people stepped out and took sides with the Iraqi government against the insurgents, and the bad guys are hopping mad. They are trying to instill fear once again. The worst thing we could do now is pull back and let that scum back into people's homes and lives.

So, you may hear analysts and prognosticators on CNN, ABC and the like in the next few days talking about how bleak the situation is here in Iraq, but from where I sit, it's looking significantly better now than when I got here. The momentum is moving in our favor, and all Americans need to know that, so please, please, pass this on to those who care and will pass it on to others. It is very demoralizing for us here in uniform to read & hear such negativity in our press. It is fodder for our enemies to use against us and against the vast majority of Iraqis who want their new government to succeed. It causes the American public to start thinking about the acceptability of "cutting our losses" and pulling out, which would be devastating for Iraq for generations to come, and Muslim militants would claim a huge victory, causing us to have to continue to fight them elsewhere (remember, in war "Away" games are always preferable to "Home" games). Reports like that also cause Iraqis begin to fear that we will pull out before we finish the job, and thus less willing to openly support their interim government and US/Coalition activities. We are realizing significant progress here - not propaganda progress, but real strides are being made. It's terrible to see our national morale, and support for what we're doing here, jeopardized by sensationalized stories hyped by media giants whose #1 priority is advertising income followed closely by their political agenda; getting the story straight falls much further down on their priority scale, as Dan Rather and CBS News have so aptly demonstrated in the last week.

Thanks for listening. Feedback is always welcome, though I can't promise an immediate response...."

This my dear is what we call Propaganda

Yeah, because Marines are all about Propaganda.... :rolleyes:

Yeah, because Marines are all about Propaganda.... :rolleyes:

Pretty much, they are trained to be.

Well you obviously don't know any Marines do you...

Well you obviously don't know any Marines do you...

I know enough to know that they usually back the leadership to the Nth degree. After they leave service is when you some times hear dissent, not while in theater you won't though.

Why do we do what we did in afghanistan? Invade shoot and capture a lot of people and then bail leaving the country in ruins? Noone really cared when it was the Taliban

without even reading the post, and just reading the title of it and the author who wrote it the first thing that came to mind is "you wouldn't"

I subscribe to every single word of Stephistan.

Unfortunatley my English is so poor and I cannot express half of what I am thinking about your posting. Let me judge it this way, if I were in your shoes, perhaps I would also express this point of view, because it's so senseless what you have to do there. And how do you manage to live with this ?

Considering the fact, that 1000 americans (young man, fathers, brothers, hubbies and friends) have spent their lives - for what? Enrichment of the american industry and global players and of course for the glory of the Bush administration - ignoring all the civil victims on all sides. Gee , you really have to find good excuses to carry on.

Still my simpathy goes to every innocent victim either american, iraqi, british...and so on :( (what a horrible thing to say) So please stop bullshitting the community about "your heroic ideals".

Think about it!

I know enough to know that they usually back the leadership to the Nth degree. After they leave service is when you some times hear dissent, not while in theater you won't though.

So the answer is no, you don't no any Marines. And because this marine is saying something you yourself don't believe, then he has to be lying....it has to be all propaganda. Because a guy on the ground in Iraq can't possibly have better insite into the situation than you do.... :rolleyes:

So the answer is no, you don't no any Marines. And because this marine is saying something you yourself don't believe, then he has to be lying....it has to be all propaganda. Because a guy on the ground in Iraq can't possibly have better insite into the situation than you do.... :rolleyes:

Well, I could come right back at you and say you don't know much about war. Propaganda is part of war. It's used by both sides in almost every thing they do and say.

Still my simpathy goes to every innocent victim either american, iraqi, british...and so on (what a horrible thing to say) So please stop bullshitting the community about "your heroic ideals".

I love it. Not only did you not understand I was posting a Marines comments and not my own, but you are the same typical I don't believe in the war in Iraq, so no matter what you say if it is positive I am going to say it is bullshit because I somehow know better..... :rolleyes:

Well, I could come right back at you and say you don't know much about war. Propaganda is part of war. It's used by both sides in almost every thing they do and say.

And I go right back to I can tell you don't know any Marines...

I love it. Not only did you not understand I was posting a Marines comments and not my own, but you are the same typical I don't believe in the war in Iraq, so no matter what you say if it is positive I am going to say it is bullshit because I somehow know better.....

Uh gimme me a break! Maybe I got something wrong as I am not a native English/American speaker - but still, I am not so ignorant to say : quote
"if it is positive I am going to say it is bullshit because I somehow know better"
unquote-

And now please be so kind and show me - the little dummy, the positive aspects of war in Iraq - Don't you think the price the Americans and Brits are paying there is far to high for what reason? Please explain it to me in simple phrases because I'm so terrible blonde :headbang:

And I go right back to I can tell you don't know any Marines...

Strawman :rolleyes:

And now please be so kind and show me - the little dummy, the positive aspects of war in Iraq - Don't you think the price the Americans and Brits are paying there is far to high for what reason?

Difficult decisions always are the hard ones to make because the cost is high. I have two cousins in the Army who are over there and a brother-in-law who is a marine forward observer who is on his way. My family is at risk and I still understand that although it was a hard decision it was a good one. I also was born and raised in New York, so I know very well that the Western World has been at war with the middle east for a long time. Bush had the courage at least to push a strat to end the war. I democratic, free Iraq will reshape the whole region.

Let's see....we have 4 prominent Republican senators questioning how the war is going. We have the Army War College's report about the dire situation in Iraq. We have outgoing generals from Iraq stating that the situation is deteriorating to the point where civil war is inevitable. We have American soldiers dying at a rate of over 2 a day. We have the National Intelligence Estimate's report about the situation of Iraq.

But....you go ahead and believe one piece of propaganda. Curious that the name and e-mail address is being "held back" by the person running the website you linked to. I wonder if you remember the letters that were sent to newspapers around the country several months ago. Remember the letter? I say letter because they were all the same, despite having several different signatures on them from different members of the military, some who had never even seen the letter to begin with.

And, before you say it, I know lots of Marines. I'm also....familiar with the Army as well.

think I'll believe the Marine,

And, before you say it, I know lots of Marines. I'm also....familiar with the Army as well.

If you know Marines then you ought to know they are not the guys you go to for Propaganda. If you want to question the source, well, that's your right. That doesn't mean that it's true though.

We have outgoing generals from Iraq stating that the situation is deteriorating to the point where civil war is inevitable.

Links please.

The marines.
Those guyz are the cream of the cream.
They are the strongest, the most clever and the fastest.
The only thing above god is the marine.
The marine are patriots, therefore they are the force of good.
This is how it works in the US.
The most trustable source is the marine.
Then come the vietnam war veteran, and next the simple war veteran.
Then you have the president.
Then it is the actors with shiny glasses.
Then the actor without glasses.

Iraq is a rough position, but definately not as bad as the media perceives it. My cousin is a marine, he recently returned from duty and brought back a old Saddam era history book for elementary school kids in iraq. I read this book and it really shows why we have so much trouble.

From the age of five to adult, iraqi's are brainwashed and mentally conditioned to believe we are the pinnacle of evil, that america is to blame for all of Iraq's problems. Hitler imposed the same methods on the Jew's in WWII. This however is even worse because Iraqi's are brainwashed to believe we are evil AND to add to it, the islamic religion teaches them that all who are not islamic are considered infidels and deserve nothing but death.

Beyond all that brainwashing and genocidal religious belief, you have Iraqi's by the hundreds rushing to join the new Iraqi security force, the new Iraqi government is trying their hardest to bring peace, my cousin showed me a home video of Iraqi children wanting to play soccer with him with fellow members in his unit. They dont show the good things in the news, only the negative.

What we need to do is increase the strength of the Iraqi military and send them to secure the borders, have the US marines quell the uprisings internally, while Iraqi police solidify's positions in the streets, eliminate one problem at a time. Cut off supplies and reinforcements of terrorists by securing the borders while starving out and eliminating the terrorists within and maintain peace in the everyday streets.

Just to toss my two cents in on the Marines: 3 of my good freinds and my favorite uncle went through the corps. All 4 of them voted Bush in 2000. All 4 agreed that Iraq was a bad idea. All 4 are voting Kerry in November.
Bad asses? Yes.
Patriotic? Hell yes!
Mindless propaganda zombies? Hell No!

If you know Marines then you ought to know they are not the guys you go to for Propaganda. If you want to question the source, well, that's your right. That doesn't mean that it's true though.

Links please.

I certainly know a lot about the Marine Corps. And what I can tell you right now is that its fishy that a letter is being passed around without verification of who this person is, whether he/she is even in the military, and so many other things. For that matter, I have my own doubts about the validity of this person writing it. The word usage doesn't seem right to me, especially for a major in the Marine Corps. The wording sounds more like a talk radio transcript than it does a letter from a major. Read it out loud and see for yourself. Then read reports or letters you've seen from other military officers and see for yourself. The familiar tone to the area without any military verbage included seems shaky.

Having said that, if you knew what you were speaking of, and I question this since you accuse everyone else of not knowing anything, you would understand that it doesn't matter if its Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines. Each division has public relations officers and each has its own form of propaganda. The only true thing I think you've said is that the Marines themselves RARELY go in for propaganda. But, if the source you have is true, you are speaking of a Marine Major who is in a staff position in Baghdad and not on the front lines with the people who are actually aware of the situation. In which case, the credibility is also shaky.

You wanted links?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1305360,00.html

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040916/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq&cid=542&ncid=716

...AND to add to it, the islamic religion teaches them that all who are not islamic are considered infidels and deserve nothing but death.

That' not true at all, you ignoramous. You obviously know nothing about the religion.


One of my friends, his dad is a medic in Afghanistan. He isn't happy with Bush. He isn't happy at all. In a few of his letters his been downright scathing about Iraq, saying that the troops are needed over THERE, where they're SUPPOSED to be.

Having said that, if you knew what you were speaking of, and I question this since you accuse everyone else of not knowing anything, you would understand that it doesn't matter if its Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines. Each division has public relations officers and each has its own form of propaganda. The only true thing I think you've said is that the Marines themselves RARELY go in for propaganda.

Boy, that is the point I've been making all along....so I don't know what I'm talking about but oh by the way you agree with me about Marines and Propaganda.

I certainly know a lot about the Marine Corps. And what I can tell you right now is that its fishy that a letter is being passed around without verification of who this person is, whether he/she is even in the military, and so many other things.

It's not a "letter being passed around," the guy makes regular comments on the web site I gave as the source (Hugh Hewitt).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/s...1305360,00.html

· Sidney Blumenthal, a former senior adviser to President Clinton, is Washington bureau chief of salon.com

Ok, so a former Clinton advisor and some retired Clinton era Generals....not exactly an unbiased source.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...id=542&ncid=716

Haha, at this point I'd like to point out that this is the same group that didn't forsee an extended insurgency as a possible scenario back in Iraq in 2002.

Ah I see, you question the legitimacy of The Guardian but believe the legitimacy of a biased website. You're one of those people. Ok.

And no, I didn't agree with you. I stated that you said one true thing about Marines but if you looked you'd have also noticed that I stated that the Marine Corps is a different story.

Ah I see, you question the legitimacy of The Guardian but believe the legitimacy of a biased website. You're one of those people. Ok.

I don't believe I've ever posted my feelings on how the war is going. I posted the feelings of a Marine in Iraq. And if you think a former Clinton advisor is an unbiased news source than there is not much I can say to you.

And no, I didn't agree with you. I stated that you said one true thing about Marines but if you looked you'd have also noticed that I stated that the Marine Corps is a different story.

Hmmm, let's see....you said:

The only true thing I think you've said is that the Marines themselves RARELY go in for propaganda.

How is that different exactly from the point I was making that saying a Marine's comments being Propaganda is unlikely?

This my dear is what we call Propaganda

And YOU are what we call and IDIOT!

Why do we do what we did in afghanistan? Invade shoot and capture a lot of people and then bail leaving the country in ruins? Noone really cared when it was the Taliban

We havent left yet! This isnt 1980!

And YOU are what we call and IDIOT!
I just have to clarify.
You just called a game mod an idiot right? OUCH! Bye then:) Nice knowing you

Hmmm, let's see....you said:he used CAPITAL letters for "rarely" ...meaning in this case...your marine is a Propaganda tool...

Maybe his post was too sophisticated for you...or maybe you are unable to read betwen the lines...

BTW...soldiers have been used as propaganda tool...in every single war...all sides...
so I do not agree with "rarely" or "unlikely"

Well, I could come right back at you and say you don't know much about war. Propaganda is part of war. It's used by both sides in almost every thing they do and say.

I must say, you dont know shit about war, or about people.

You might try shutting your fly trap long enough to listen for once in your life and you MIGHT learn something.

I must say, you dont know shit about war, or about people.

You might try shutting your fly trap long enough to listen for once in your life and you MIGHT learn something.
You really don't get this do you.
ah well Steph over to you:)

I must say, you dont know shit about war, or about people.

You might try shutting your fly trap long enough to listen for once in your life and you MIGHT learn something.You better stop Flaming...its against the Forum rules

You better stop Flaming...its against the Forum rules
And he's flaming a mod!

I love it. Not only did you not understand I was posting a Marines comments and not my own, but you are the same typical I don't believe in the war in Iraq, so no matter what you say if it is positive I am going to say it is bullshit because I somehow know better.....

Uh gimme me a break! Maybe I got something wrong as I am not a native English/American speaker - but still, I am not so ignorant to say : quote
"if it is positive I am going to say it is bullshit because I somehow know better"
unquote-

And now please be so kind and show me - the little dummy, the positive aspects of war in Iraq - Don't you think the price the Americans and Brits are paying there is far to high for what reason? Please explain it to me in simple phrases because I'm so terrible blonde :headbang:

Some times as a good parent I have to smack my child. I dont like to do it, but in the end it has to be done. If I smack my child for putting his hand on the stove, MAYBE he wont burn his hand when the stove IS hot... Sometimes as a good citizen of the world we have to do something about people we dont like or trust, so that in the future they can not become a greater threat to themselves or us.

Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean we didnt do the right thing. I'm sure my son didnt understand it the first time I smacked his hand, but when you grow up, just like my son, you will understand.

Let's see....we have 4 prominent Republican senators questioning how the war is going. We have the Army War College's report about the dire situation in Iraq. We have outgoing generals from Iraq stating that the situation is deteriorating to the point where civil war is inevitable. We have American soldiers dying at a rate of over 2 a day. We have the National Intelligence Estimate's report about the situation of Iraq.

But....you go ahead and believe one piece of propaganda. Curious that the name and e-mail address is being "held back" by the person running the website you linked to. I wonder if you remember the letters that were sent to newspapers around the country several months ago. Remember the letter? I say letter because they were all the same, despite having several different signatures on them from different members of the military, some who had never even seen the letter to begin with.

And, before you say it, I know lots of Marines. I'm also....familiar with the Army as well.

Tell me something, do you think the same thing DIDNT happen in World War 2?

he used CAPITAL letters for "rarely" ...meaning in this case...your marine is a Propaganda tool...

Maybe his post was too sophisticated for you...or maybe you are unable to read betwen the lines...

BTW...soldiers have been used as propaganda tool...in every single war...all sides...
so I do not agree with "rarely" or "unlikely"

Hehehe, thank you. I was hoping someone could see the difference.

Tell me something, do you think the same thing DIDNT happen in World War 2?

Hey Joe, the same thing happened during the Gulf War, when 90% of the American people were backing it. Thanks for proving my point.

The difference between World War II and today is that the rationale for going to war with Germany, Italy, and Japan was very clear and didn't turn out to be false after we had already become involved. Gee, I suppose another difference might be that Japan attacked us and Germany declared war upon us after we declared war on the Empire of Japan.

Comparisons between World War II and Iraq are generally pointless because of the incredible differences surrounding the circumstances.

I just have to clarify.
You just called a game mod an idiot right? OUCH! Bye then:) Nice knowing you

Clarify this. Why do you think you know so much about a situation you have NEVER been in? have you EVER been to IRAQ? Can you even find it on a map?

I've been there myself a few times... Before and after the current situation. You can call the truth what ever you want, its still the truth, and your still an idiot.

Clarify this. Why do you think you know so much about a situation you have NEVER been in? have you EVER been to IRAQ? Can you even find it on a map?

I've been there myself a few times... Before and after the current situation. You can call the truth what ever you want, its still the truth, and your still an idiot.
Now i'm just confused. You called Steph an idiot not me therefore the appropriate post would have been "you're an idiot" not "your still an idiot"
Where did I mention Iraq? Anywhere? You can say whatever you want about Iraq i'm just advising you not to insult Steph!

Clarify this. Why do you think you know so much about a situation you have NEVER been in? have you EVER been to IRAQ? Can you even find it on a map?

I've been there myself a few times... Before and after the current situation. You can call the truth what ever you want, its still the truth, and your still an idiot.
p.s I've never been to Iraq as it's hard to get in with an Israeli passport!

Some times as a good parent I have to smack my child. I dont like to do it, but in the end it has to be done. If I smack my child for putting his hand on the stove, MAYBE he wont burn his hand when the stove IS hot... Sometimes as a good citizen of the world we have to do something about people we dont like or trust, so that in the future they can not become a greater threat to themselves or us.

Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean we didnt do the right thing. I'm sure my son didnt understand it the first time I smacked his hand, but when you grow up, just like my son, you will understand.

Comparing a sovereign nation to a misbehaving child? What analytical thinking we have there.

Your analogy doesn't make sense. So what are you saying, that by smacking your child for touching a stove you've prevented him from becoming an arsonist? That's what you're saying about Iraq so the first part of your analogy makes no sense.

And he's flaming a mod!mod or not...It is against the rules...

Hey Joe, the same thing happened during the Gulf War, when 90% of the American people were backing it. Thanks for proving my point.

The difference between World War II and today is that the rationale for going to war with Germany, Italy, and Japan was very clear and didn't turn out to be false after we had already become involved. Gee, I suppose another difference might be that Japan attacked us and Germany declared war upon us after we declared war on the Empire of Japan.

Comparisons between World War II and Iraq are generally pointless because of the incredible differences surrounding the circumstances.

Lets see, psychotic dictatorship, genecide, attempting to take over other countries for there resources.... Ok, so its a bit more sandy in IRAQ then Germany, I'll give you that.

Surrounding circumstances are different? Well yea, we beat him BEFORE he had a chance to invade the closest 10 countries.

p.s I've never been to Iraq as it's hard to get in with an Israeli passport!

well then, if you dont know what your talking about KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT

Comparing a sovereign nation to a misbehaving child? What analytical thinking we have there.

Your analogy doesn't make sense. So what are you saying, that by smacking your child for touching a stove you've prevented him from becoming an arsonist? That's what you're saying about Iraq so the first part of your analogy makes no sense.

I wouldnt expect YOU to understand. lol

mod or not...It is against the rules...

Whats your point kid?

well then, if you dont know what your talking about KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUTGas...you are playing with fire....

I wouldnt expect YOU to understand. lol

That's ok. I imagine very shortly you'll no longer be a member of these boards anyway so I won't lose sleep over that.

he used CAPITAL letters for "rarely" ...meaning in this case...your marine is a Propaganda tool...

Ah, so he agreed that Propaganda isn't usually something Marines are involved in, but in this case, since he disagrees with what this Marine is saying, he must be an exception? :rolleyes:

Ah, so he agreed that Propaganda isn't usually something Marines are involved in, but in this case, since he disagrees with what this Marine is saying, he must be an exception? :rolleyes:

The rolling of the eyes wasn't necessary. That I disagree is obvious. That I would say its baseless because its something I disagree with isn't. If you'd check the thread on Louisiana, you'd see that even though I disagree with their ruling, I agree with their basis for doing such. I don't discredit information merely because I disagree with it.

What I was saying is that while it is true in most situations that the Marines don't go in for propaganda, its not true that they are immune from it. And then, as I pointed out, without any citation of the author's credibility or experience, it makes your initial posting that much more questionable and more plausible that it is propaganda.

Do you understand the difference I'm trying to point out? I like your passion and the fact that you haven't resorted to vulgarity so I'm trying to respond in kind....so far.

Whats your point kid?hmm....If you dont mind...Ill tell you tomorrow...
I have places to go..people to see...things to do...Bye Joe...asta la vista.

Some times as a good parent I have to smack my child. I dont like to do it, but in the end it has to be done. If I smack my child for putting his hand on the stove, MAYBE he wont burn his hand when the stove IS hot... Sometimes as a good citizen of the world we have to do something about people we dont like or trust, so that in the future they can not become a greater threat to themselves or us.

Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean we didnt do the right thing. I'm sure my son didnt understand it the first time I smacked his hand, but when you grow up, just like my son, you will understand.
The burning sensation from the stove was enough for me to not put my hand on it again. I think that I would have resented a smack as redudent, condescending, and unneccisary, thus prompting me to find a way to rebel. But I'd have to be devious about it because of the 'arms to short to box with god' problem.

I wonder if the analogy still carries? hmmmm.

The rolling of the eyes wasn't necessary. That I disagree is obvious. That I would say its baseless because its something I disagree with isn't. If you'd check the thread on Louisiana, you'd see that even though I disagree with their ruling, I agree with their basis for doing such. I don't discredit information merely because I disagree with it.

What I was saying is that while it is true in most situations that the Marines don't go in for propaganda, its not true that they are immune from it. And then, as I pointed out, without any citation of the author's credibility or experience, it makes your initial posting that much more questionable and more plausible that it is propaganda.

Do you understand the difference I'm trying to point out? I like your passion and the fact that you haven't resorted to vulgarity so I'm trying to respond in kind....so far.

I wish you were here so you could take a walk with me. I'd take you down to where MY FRIENDS are buried because they KNEW they were doing whats right. I would gladly lay beside them because I KNOW the work I do every day to support those troops and MY friends is for the right reason.

In truth I really dont care what you think, but it pisses me off to hear people like you who have NO CLUE what this war is about cry because they dont understand it.

Well guess not its nor for you to understand, just deal with it, and move on with your life, like the people of Iraq already have. Before I joined the military I spent 9 years in Michigan, near dearborn. For those who have lived there you know why that area is special to this war.

Anyway, I've had friends call me and thank me out of the blue for my what I do every day. And these are people who's family still lives in Iraq. But then there are people, like who, who arn't effected by what we do, but still feels the need to cry about it.

This is just one Airman of the United States Air Force saying you can kiss my ass, I dont care what you think. I KNOW why I do what I do. Deal with it.

I wish you were here so you could take a walk with me. I'd take you down to where MY FRIENDS are buried because they KNEW they were doing whats right. I would gladly lay beside them because I KNOW the work I do every day to support those troops and MY friends is for the right reason.

In truth I really dont care what you think, but it pisses me off to hear people like you who have NO CLUE what this war is about cry because they dont understand it.

Well guess not its nor for you to understand, just deal with it, and move on with your life, like the people of Iraq already have. Before I joined the military I spent 9 years in Michigan, near dearborn. For those who have lived there you know why that area is special to this war.

Anyway, I've had friends call me and thank me out of the blue for my what I do every day. And these are people who's family still lives in Iraq. But then there are people, like who, who arn't effected by what we do, but still feels the need to cry about it.

This is just one Airman of the United States Air Force saying you can kiss my ass, I dont care what you think. I KNOW why I do what I do. Deal with it.

As a veteran of the United States Army and the Gulf War, I could give a rat's behind what you are saying. People like you annoy me. You are a sheep who would refuse to hear anything but the national anthem blaring in your ears. You don't think for yourself. You don't listen to reason. You don't understand the very patriotism you have wrapped yourself up in.

An airman of the Air Force. *Scoff* What, couldn't you get through the Army physical?

I don't discredit information merely because I disagree with it.

You started off discrediting it as propaganda despite the fact you say engaging in Propaganda isn't the norm for a marine. Here, I'll quote you:

But....you go ahead and believe one piece of propaganda.

No offense, but that's discrediting it because you disagree with it. And you can give me links saying the war is going poorly and I can give you links back saying he war is going well. But you don't believe it is, so you discredit this guy. Say he doesn't sound like a marine which is a pretty silly arguement, and then say it's propaganda.

You started off discrediting it as propaganda despite the fact you say engaging in Propaganda isn't the norm for a marine. Here, I'll quote you:



No offense, but that's discrediting it because you disagree with it. And you can give me links saying the war is going poorly and I can give you links back saying he war is going well. But you don't believe it is, so you discredit this guy. Say he doesn't sound like a marine which is a pretty silly arguement, and then say it's propaganda.

OK, that's true and you're right. I did start off discrediting it as propaganda because of the nature of how its written and the fact that your website doesn't list a name or e-mail of the author.

I don't agree with you however that its merely a discredidation because of disbelief. I discredited it because of what I just said. Were you to be able to provide a more accurate source that verifies the author, I would be more willing to believe that this is a soldier's words and not something just written by someone trying to get a point across.

I don't agree with you however that its merely a discredidation because of disbelief. I discredited it because of what I just said. Were you to be able to provide a more accurate source that verifies the author, I would be more willing to believe that this is a soldier's words and not something just written by someone trying to get a point across.

The guy who published on his website is a credible journalist, so more than likely he checked his source...although who knows, maybe he checks his sources the way Dan Rather does.... :D

The guy who published on his website is a credible journalist, so more than likely he checked his source...although who knows, maybe he checks his sources the way Dan Rather does.... :D

LOL....yes, Dan could use a course in that for sure.

Hugh Hewitt is a conservative talk show host and head of the Center Right Coalition. He is in the same genre as people such as Rush Limbaugh and Al Franken.

I wish you were here so you could take a walk with me. I'd take you down to where MY FRIENDS are buried because they KNEW they were doing whats right. I would gladly lay beside them because I KNOW the work I do every day to support those troops and MY friends is for the right reason.
This sticks out to me. I am not in the military (which is why I love having Thunderland around), but-it's my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, that soldiers bodies are shipped back to the US to be buried. That was the whole controversy with no one being allowed to view them coming back. It's a minor point and doesn't really refute any specific point, though I would argue that you do care and do 'give a crap,' otherwise you wouldn't be making this argument here in the first place. You wouldn't have battled it out for this many pages. It's alright to care, it just seems a little weak to back out at this point and say you don't care what we think when your went through the effort of trying to tell us in the first place.

LOL....yes, Dan could use a course in that for sure.

Hugh Hewitt is a conservative talk show host and head of the Center Right Coalition. He is in the same genre as people such as Rush Limbaugh and Al Franken.

And he is obviously right leaning, but chances are he checked his source.

And he is obviously right leaning, but chances are he checked his source.
do you have a documented reason you can assume that? other than he is a right winger

Some times as a good parent I have to smack my child. I dont like to do it, but in the end it has to be done. If I smack my child for putting his hand on the stove, MAYBE he wont burn his hand when the stove IS hot... Sometimes as a good citizen of the world we have to do something about people we dont like or trust, so that in the future they can not become a greater threat to themselves or us.

Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean we didnt do the right thing. I'm sure my son didnt understand it the first time I smacked his hand, but when you grow up, just like my son, you will understand.

You're a retarded,bad parent.If he puts his hand on the stove and burns it than he will learn not to in the future without you smacking him.That wasn't a bad thing he did,he just didn't know.If it was something socially unacceptable than it would be okay to discipline him.Since you're statement about your child was completely wrong I'm going to assume you know nothing about the war either,and,your analogy is moot.

do you have a documented reason you can assume that? other than he is a right winger

What, that he checks his sources? I assume most people with published work check there sources to some degree, at least to the point of verifying that the guy who has been writing him is in fact a Marine. Probably all he has to do is look at the e-mail address.

You know what happens when you assume things right? Hehehe...