NationStates Jolt Archive

Current stats when I visited:

All Countries:
Bush:21220
Kerry:136303
Bush: 13 %
Kerry: 86 %


I find somewhat of a powerful message in that.

Check it out for yourself - the country by country breakdown is pretty interesting. http://www.betavote.com/

Yeah, it's a bit scary how very *much* Bush is hated by the international community. I've been to that site, voted for Kerry, yay me.

Foreigners usually have a very poor understanding of US policy (as do many people domestically, unfortunately, but they usually don't vote anyway), so I really couldn't care less how they'd vote. I consider it a point in Kerry's favor that he would have a clean slate if elected, but for me it just isn't a deciding factor. Better to pick a President who you feel is right but is hated by the world than to pick one with whom you disagree but is like by the world. And for the record, I am not a Bush supporter, but this is my two cents on the matter. Also, polls of this type on the Internet tend to attract more liberals than conservatives, so it really isn't representative.

Better to pick a President who you feel is right but is hated by the world than to pick one with whom you disagree but is like by the world.

I don't think it's so black and white. I mean granted, you may support the policies, but those policies could just drive further schisms in foreign relations.

I don't think it's so black and white. I mean granted, you may support the policies, but those policies could just drive further schisms in foreign relations.

Please explain... I'm not sure what your comment meant in response to mine. Are you saying there are varying degrees as to how much you agree with a candidate and that you must juxtapose this with the varying degrees of support this candidate has internationally? I am tempted to agree with you but I do not place equal weight on the two factors. The international community would have to hate the candidate in question an awful lot and my support for him would have to be very tenuous for it to be able to change my vote. And I'm majoring in International Studies, too....

Personal animosity towards a US President doesn't mean an awful lot except in governments that are easily influenced by public opinion, and besides that most of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes never gets brought to their attention anyway so the public often never realize how much they are actually collaborating with us.

As a non-American who lived in three different countries before moving to the US, I know full well that "world perceptions" of America are extremely biased and their generalized notions are very often outright fabrications. I'm not surprised, in every city I've lived in the major newspapers and TV stations always had a very leftist bias.

Current stats when I visited:

All Countries:
Bush:21220
Kerry:136303
Bush: 13 %
Kerry: 86 %


I find somewhat of a powerful message in that.

Check it out for yourself - the country by country breakdown is pretty interesting. http://www.betavote.com/
Well the North Koreans favour Bush

Korea, Democratic People's Republic Of 15 12 55 % 44 %

And so does Iraq and Afghanistan (must be the military computers there?)

Iraq 218 210 50 % 49 %

Afghanistan 444 434 50 % 49 %

Now the US is another case:

United States 8149 18382 30 % 69 %

I guess more Liberals own computers?

As a non-American who lived in three different countries before moving to the US, I know full well that "world perceptions" of America are extremely biased and their generalized notions are very often outright fabrications. I'm not surprised, in every city I've lived in the major newspapers and TV stations always had a very leftist bias.
Yup the whole world is biased. Geez!!! :eek:

Its interesting that the countries most biased against Bush are the "more civilized" countries, and the countries in the areas the US is attacking (afghanastan, iraq, pakistan etc) are close to equal popularity or even voting in bush's favour

Well the North Koreans favour Bush

Korea, Democratic People's Republic Of 15 12 55 % 44 %

And so does Iraq and Afghanistan (must be the military computers there?)

Iraq 218 210 50 % 49 %

Afghanistan 444 434 50 % 49 %

Now the US is another case:

United States 8149 18382 30 % 69 %

I guess more Liberals own computers?

Yup the whole poll is BS. I doubt that they even have any sort of verification of where you are from. Chuck it in the garbage.

Foreigners usually have a very poor understanding of US policy
How do you substantiate that comment?
Better to pick a President who you feel is right but is hated by the world than to pick one with whom you disagree but is like by the world.
Perhaps like or dislike has nothing to do with it? How about respect, is that not most important?

Yup the whole world is biased. Geez!!! :eek:

Indeed. It's quite frightening.

When I arrived at the US, I would read the overseas newspapers I'm familiar with online as well as various American dailies. The overseas papers would always print the most negative accounts with the most leftist bias, every time. And many of the spoon-fed generalizations I was taught in Australia and China turned out to be outrageous smears.

I'd say on average, the Reuters news service is more biased and anti-American than the state-controlled Xinhua service in China.

Yup the whole world is biased. Geez!!! :eek:


No, but he internet community is full of moronic people who think that socialism is good because they live their lives in euro college utopias.

I have yet to see someone on the boards talk about how many people die in waiting lines in universal health care solutions. But hen again I guess death in these types of societies is less important because they are are too stupid to understand profit motives lead to less denial of services.

Please explain... I'm not sure what your comment meant in response to mine. Are you saying there are varying degrees as to how much you agree with a candidate and that you must juxtapose this with the varying degrees of support this candidate has internationally? I am tempted to agree with you but I do not place equal weight on the two factors. The international community would have to hate the candidate in question an awful lot and my support for him would have to be very tenuous for it to be able to change my vote. And I'm majoring in International Studies, too....

Personal animosity towards a US President doesn't mean an awful lot except in governments that are easily influenced by public opinion, and besides that most of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes never gets brought to their attention anyway so the public often never realize how much they are actually collaborating with us.

Well, me being a biochem major, makes me pretty stupid in this subject, but I'll put in a little more explanation.

Of course they're not going to be weighed equally, it'll more than likely vary from person to person. But yeah, I agree with you.

While I don't think who the world prefers the U.S. President would be relevant or nessecary to know at all, this particular President needs to be shown that everyone wants him out.

Indeed. It's quite frightening.

When I arrived at the US, I would read the overseas newspapers I'm familiar with online as well as various American dailies. The overseas papers would always print the most negative accounts with the most leftist bias, every time. And many of the spoon-fed generalizations I was taught in Australia and China turned out to be outrageous smears.

I'd say on average, the Reuters news service is more biased and anti-American than the state-controlled Xinhua service in China.
Well I do notice that the results for Canada (90% Kerry) are fairly close to the official poll that was conducted here (80% against Bush). This poll is slightly higher against Bush as far as Canada is concerned, but still in the ball park.

Well I do notice that the results for Canada (90% Kerry) are fairly close to the official poll that was conducted here (80% against Bush). This poll is slightly higher against Bush as far as Canada is concerned, but still in the ball park.

Don't get me started on Canada. I'm still a Canadian citizen (for about another 4 months) and the kind of crap some Canadians say about the US is just embarassing.

Why are we even considering these numbers anyhow? Let's look at this from a logical mind: The majority of the world population has never even seen a computer, let alone have access to the internet. C'mon guys, let's get real.

No, but he internet community is full of moronic people who think that socialism is good because they live their lives in euro college utopias.

I have yet to see someone on the boards talk about how many people die in waiting lines in universal health care solutions. But hen again I guess death in these types of societies is less important because they are are too stupid to understand profit motives lead to less denial of services.
Actually if you care to look into the topic of universal health care, you will notice that US life expectancy is lower than most. Even infant mortality rates in the US is higher than many of the countries that you are trashing. Do some research and come back with an informed opinion?

Why are we even considering these numbers anyhow? Let's look at this from a logical mind: The majority of the world population has never even seen a computer, let alone have access to the internet. C'mon guys, let's get real.
You cannot be serious with that comment? :eek:

United States 8152 18389 30 % 69 % '

Id like to say that this has to be biased because most polls taken are much much closer usually like 49 52 instead of a huge gap like this one. Wonder why...

I voted Bush by the way and support a lot, not all, but a lot of what he does.

a lotsay the lesser of two evils and you are correct even though i think evil is too strong of a word and Bush is the lesser here in my opinion.

oo and Id like to add.Who cares what the world thinks? It may be a little out there but this is our country not yours. sorry if that seemed a little harsh but its late and i dont have the patience for being polite like i normally do. like i said lighten it up a bit and thats what i ment. hehe

Don't get me started on Canada. I'm still a Canadian citizen (for about another 4 months) and the kind of crap some Canadians say about the US is just embarassing.
How is it embarassing?

You cannot be serious with that comment? :eek:
Thanks for the sarcasm :mad:

Actually if you care to look into the topic of universal health care, you will notice that US life expectancy is lower than most. Even infant mortality rates in the US is higher than many of the countries that you are trashing. Do some research and come back with an informed opinion?

How about using real metrics, such as medical coverage, actual costs of health care (taxes included) and average waiting time before receiving care?

I love how Canadian healthcare professionals are fleeing just like the high-tech brain drain.

Thanks for the sarcasm :mad:
It is a question. If you are serious then yes it was sarcasm. Sorry but the US is not the only country in the world with computers and the internet.

Indeed. It's quite frightening.

When I arrived at the US, I would read the overseas newspapers I'm familiar with online as well as various American dailies. The overseas papers would always print the most negative accounts with the most leftist bias, every time. And many of the spoon-fed generalizations I was taught in Australia and China turned out to be outrageous smears.

I'd say on average, the Reuters news service is more biased and anti-American than the state-controlled Xinhua service in China.

whats the point of arguing with euro trash? I hate going to europe these days. They have next to no disposable income. Everything costs 2-3 times what it costs in the Us(this is based on pricing paristy, not simply exchange rates).

Let them degenerate into whatever they want, where only the rich can afford to eat wherever they want.

Europe is becoming less and less relevant anyway.

Old Europe is like Rome in slow motion. Crazy systemic unemployment(what wrong with you people, forgotten how to work?), no morals(not that I have any), but hey, I am not the one supporting 10% of the workforce who is too lazy to work.

Old Europe, Canada = a joke on the world

US, China, India, UK, Australia, Eastean Euarope....These are societies worth something..

canuck heaven i dislike your signature. In the beggining bin laden was a very real and big threat. a few months later when the Flop part happens he wasn't much of a threat anymore and all evidence we had of him was tapes.

How about using real metrics, such as medical coverage, actual costs of health care (taxes included) and average waiting time before receiving care?

I love how Canadian healthcare professionals are fleeing just like the high-tech brain drain.
Yet are health care system still works and still puts out good service. The health care system also just got a major boost from the Federal Government.

The fact that the US spends almost 3 times as much per capita and has relatively the same quality of health care blows my mind.

whats the point of arguing with euro trash? I hate going to europe these days. They have next to no disposable income. Everything costs 2-3 times what it costs in the Us(this is based on pricing paristy, not simply exchange rates).

Let them degenerate into whatever they want, where only the rich can afford to eat wherever they want.

Europe is becoming less and less relevant anyway.

Old Europe is like Rome in slow motion. Crazy systemic unemployment(what wrong with you people, forgotten how to work?), no morals(not that I have any), but hey, I am not the one supporting 10% of the workforce who is too lazy to work.

Old Europe, Canada = a joke on the world

US, China, India, UK, Australia, Eastean Euarope....These are societies worth something..

agreed.

canuck heaven i dislike your signature. In the beggining bin laden was a very real and big threat. a few months later when the Flop part happens he wasn't much of a threat anymore and all evidence we had of him was tapes.
You don't like my siggy? Bin Laden is NOT still a problem? WOW you must be joking?

BTW, the siggy is accurate and shows everyone that old Georgy is not necessarily a man of his word.

well since im basically being ignored here I'm going to call it a night. Need some sleep you know?

I'll check back here tomorrow to see how this progresses.

canada...ha...

How is it embarassing?

You wouldn't understand since you lived in Canada your whole life (probably).

You don't like my siggy? Bin Laden is NOT still a problem? WOW you must be joking?

When was the last time you heard anything about bin laden hmm?

again...must sleep....will finish tomorrow

You wouldn't understand since you lived in Canada your whole life (probably).
I have done a lot of research. BTW, there are 45 Million Americans without ANY health care coverage. Now tell me how the US system is better?

It is a question. If you are serious then yes it was sarcasm. Sorry but the US is not the only country in the world with computers and the internet.

So you're saying the majority of the population on this earth has a computer? Then please explain to me why the figures for China, a country with only a billion people or so, are represented by only a one-hundred people? Face it, a good majority of people do not own a computer. And to assume that only American's are the only ones with computers would be completely naive of me.

I have done a lot of research. BTW, there are 45 Million Americans without ANY health care coverage. Now tell me how the US system is better?

The number is closer to 30 million, and the fact that they don't have health insurance doesn't mean they don't have healthcare coverage. Also, many Americans voluntarily forego health insurance coverage; I went without health insurance for two years in college.

Now, how do you feel about Canada spending one-third of its tax revenue propping up a dilapidated single-payer healthcare system facing massive morale problems?

How do you substantiate that comment?

Well, for one thing, there is a tendency to make monolithic statements about the US's policy, as though it were one coherent whole and represented some sort of master strategy. The truth of the matter is that most foreign policy is reactive not planned, and as anyone in the foreign services will tell you, they constantly feel ilke they are falling behind and lack the information and time to make truly informed and rational choices. What you often get in these decisions is the best choice that could be partially analyzed in a given period of time, not necessarily the best possible choice. This often leads to many unorthodox choices not even being considered because there is not enough time/not enough people to consider/come up with them.

Of course, people in the US tend to make the same sort of mistake in analyzing other countries, in that we often look at them as a coherent whole in situations where there is usually significant opposition. In both causes, the public lacks any sort of clear understanding as to what goes into policy-making and how that influences what comes out.

So you're saying the majority of the population on this earth has a computer? Then please explain to me why the figures for China, a country with only a billion people or so, are represented by only a one-hundred people? Face it, a good majority of people do not own a computer. And to assume that only American's are the only ones with computers would be completely naive of me.
Did I say that the majority of the people have computers? No.

But obviously there are computers in all of those countries and they obviously have access to the internet. Naturally, the countries that are more first world will have more computers and that fact is borne out by the percentage of votes from the more industrialized countries.

No, but he internet community is full of moronic people who think that socialism is good because they live their lives in euro college utopias.

I have yet to see someone on the boards talk about how many people die in waiting lines in universal health care solutions. But hen again I guess death in these types of societies is less important because they are are too stupid to understand profit motives lead to less denial of services.

Living in the United States, I have a friend who was diagnosed with skin cancer. He is a middle class individual with a good job and health insurance, but has been made to wait for over four months to have the cancer removed. The HUGE error in that US citizens don't have to wait for operations is ridiculous. This is only one example, there are countless others. I am not a fan of socialism by any means, but blindly loving "free" markets and profit margins to fix everything while deriding every other option is dangerous. There is a better way to distribute goods and services than the systems humanity has/is experimenting with, but without open minds, we will never find that better way. Sounds like Isanyonehome was relating his/her own "euro college utopia."

I have done a lot of research. BTW, there are 45 Million Americans without ANY health care coverage. Now tell me how the US system is better?


Hey monkey boy, a good 90% of those 40 million are under 45 years of age. What does that mean, well it means nothing is gonna affect their health short of a volcano europting near them.

I would debate stats with you, but you are Canadian and by default useless so what is the point. You guys get to whine and cry, but have zero impact on the world.

I ma fealing generous, so I will salute your insignificance in anything relevant in the world. Go have fun with snow. You pathetic insignificant fool/country.

Why is this thread degenerating into a comaprison of different political systems when it really has very little/nothing to do with that?

Did I say that the majority of the people have computers? No.

But obviously there are computers in all of those countries and they obviously have access to the internet. Naturally, the countries that are more first world will have more computers and that fact is borne out by the percentage of votes from the more industrialized countries.

Therefore, the numbers are still wrong, and shouldn't be considered, as the majority of the people don't live in first world conditions.

The number is closer to 30 million, and the fact that they don't have health insurance doesn't mean they don't have healthcare coverage. Also, many Americans voluntarily forego health insurance coverage; I went without health insurance for two years in college.
You are off by 15 Million.

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_healthinsurance.gif

Now, how do you feel about Canada spending one-third of its tax revenue propping up a dilapidated single-payer healthcare system facing massive morale problems?
I am an above average wage earner and I believe that the health care system while not perfect, trumps the US system because everyone has coverage. I pay taxes to cover that affordability for all Canadians and it doesn't really bother me. Actually from what I understand, a basic Health Insurance coverage in the US is about $10,000 USD and that is less than what I pay through taxes for a broader coverage. So yeah I think our health care is a good deal.

Living in the United States, I have a friend who was diagnosed with skin cancer. He is a middle class individual with a good job and health insurance, but has been made to wait for over four months to have the cancer removed. The HUGE error in that US citizens don't have to wait for operations is ridiculous. This is only one example, there are countless others. I am not a fan of socialism by any means, but blindly loving "free" markets and profit margins to fix everything while deriding every other option is dangerous. There is a better way to distribute goods and services than the systems humanity has/is experimenting with, but without open minds, we will never find that better way. Sounds like Isanyonehome was relating his/her own "euro college utopia."

I dont see how you are disagreeing with me.

resources are scarce.

The socialist/communists dont understant this.

The whole point is finding oput the best way to allocate resources to the people who need them

The socialiasts/commies dont understand that their world view limits supply. Who would be a doctor if you were paid the same who studyied 1/10 s much as you did?

This is a longer argumant than I want ot have right now. If you disagree, post your srgumants, I will respind when I wake up.

You are off by 15 Million.

I never trust any statistic posted in a political ad. From either side. Again, I would like to see the number of Americans who actually want health insurance but cannot afford it.

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_healthinsurance.gif

I am an above average wage earner and I believe that the health care system while not perfect, trumps the US system because everyone has coverage. I pay taxes to cover that affordability for all Canadians and it doesn't really bother me. Actually from what I understand, a basic Healt Insurance coverage in the US is about $10,000 USD and that is less than what I pay through taxes for a broader coverage. So yeah I think our health care is a good deal.

I am also an above average wage earner and if I were living in Canada I'd be paying about $12000 more in taxes every year, a punitive rate for a person who just got out of graduate school. Also, my current health insurance policy costs about as much as my car insurance... but since I'm under 25 my car insurance is a massive rip-off.

I love how Canadian healthcare professionals are fleeing just like the high-tech brain drain.

Also interesting is that the most qualified and intelligent people in the United States are not becoming doctors because too few except the rich can afford to become doctors. Being able to afford medical school does not a good doctor make. Perhaps this is why we have seen the rise in doctor incompetance in the United States. Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the US. (From JAMA, but must subscribe to read, this law office quotes the report from 2002):
http://www.masryvititoe.com/medical_malpractice.shtml

Also interesting is that the most qualified and intelligent people in the United States are not becoming doctors because too few except the rich can afford to become doctors. Being able to afford medical school does not a good doctor make. Perhaps this is why we have seen the rise in doctor incompetance in the United States. Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the US. (From JAMA, but must subscribe to read, this law office quotes the report from 2002):
http://www.masryvititoe.com/medical_malpractice.shtml

You can blame John Edwards for the exorbitant costs of malpractice insurance.

Also, all my female siblings and cousins are studying to be doctors right now, and none of them are rich. Medical school might be expensive, but most of them are extremely generous with loans and grants. Also, the quality of American medical schools cannot be beat.

So the fact that US doctors are screwing up more than ever before has nothing to do with increasing lawsuits or insurance companies charging more for ever increasing cases of malpractice? Did you even read the link? ~200,000 die of malpractice each year!
Over 13,000 doctors have been disciplined for serious incompetence or misconduct!
Yet you still want to blame trial lawyers...you have bought into that flawed argument hook line and sinker....

Hey monkey boy, a good 90% of those 40 million are under 45 years of age. What does that mean, well it means nothing is gonna affect their health short of a volcano europting near them.

I would debate stats with you, but you are Canadian and by default useless so what is the point. You guys get to whine and cry, but have zero impact on the world.

I ma fealing generous, so I will salute your insignificance in anything relevant in the world. Go have fun with snow. You pathetic insignificant fool/country.
Generally I have found that people who start hurling insults are just not up to the task of having a civilized debate and also quite often unprepared to produce facts that could support their arguments.

If you choose to wallow in ignorance you are most welcome to do so. :eek:

You might want to check your source, I find the numbers posted by those trial lawyers dubous. Also, compute the malpractice rate per capita.

As a non-American who lived in three different countries before moving to the US, I know full well that "world perceptions" of America are extremely biased and their generalized notions are very often outright fabrications.

Funny how the average European probably knows more about US foreign policy than the average American. Face it, on a whole, we're dumbasses. Our media sucks (its not just that its "too liberal" or "too conservative" it just plain ole sucks, its not credible, its sensational, its full blown business geared to making the most money possible). We live on sound bites--that's what influnces our "world perception". (Axis of Evil? WTF?)

Granted I don't know what countries you've lived in however I do know that if you lived in an established European country you'd have seen that they have much better textbook news coverage and reporting. (It still sucks on the whole though)

Boy am I cynical.

EDIT: took out a word and fixed a spelling error

Living in the United States, I have a friend who was diagnosed with skin cancer. He is a middle class individual with a good job and health insurance, but has been made to wait for over four months to have the cancer removed. The HUGE error in that US citizens don't have to wait for operations is ridiculous. This is only one example, there are countless others. I am not a fan of socialism by any means, but blindly loving "free" markets and profit margins to fix everything while deriding every other option is dangerous. There is a better way to distribute goods and services than the systems humanity has/is experimenting with, but without open minds, we will never find that better way. Sounds like Isanyonehome was relating his/her own "euro college utopia."

Is this why there are more MRI's in Queens than all of Canada? If thsi why my uncle would be dead if he lived in Canada instead of the US where his wife paid privately for an mri which his his doctor didnt request but showed a tumor? is this why you idiot canucks have to offload you mri workload to buffalo?

You are so stupid, you dont even realize your stupidity.

I make my living from the govt health care system. Its because of morons such as yourself that the govt is able to pass off as reasonable.

Do you realize the govt pays me just under 4 times for the same procedure that private insurance does.

do you also understand the corruption when govt is involved? No, of course you do not. We recently bought a practice, the doctor passed away. 6 months later we figured out that the doctors wife was still billing the govt. She was claiming that the doctor was still seeing the patients. Unfortunately, the doctor was DEAD!!!!!!!!

The govt only called us cuse they were sick of getting harassed by her. We pointed out that he died in April and that she was committing FRAUD.

Of Course, Your Canadian so you probably are unable to understand these concepts. Good luck waiting a year to get you kidney removed.

Generally I have found that people who start hurling insults are just not up to the task of having a civilized debate and also quite often unprepared to produce facts that could support their arguments.

If you choose to wallow in ignorance you are most welcome to do so. :eek:

gee, you win.

I guess that why Canadians have waiting lines for needed surgery longer than Us lines for ELECTIVE surgery.

edit: oh, just to be spiteful, if canada never existed, exactly what impact would it have on the world? I mean canadians havent exactly created anything. Developed nothing, made a differance in no ones life, invented nothing. developed nothing.

You are basically an insignificant country(with great strip clubs), that has never done anything of worth, never will do anything of value, and enjoy your security because the country that you belittle will protect you regardless of your infidelity.

So my Canadian compatriot, FUCK OFF, what are you gonna do? cry? go to the UN? OH, and before you ask, I used to respect you guys a hell of a lot.

Funny how the average European probably knows more about US foreign policy than the average American. Face it, on a whole, we're dumbasses. Our media sucks (its not just that its "too liberal" or "too conservative" it just plain ole sucks, its not credible, its sensational, its full blown business geared to making the most money possible). We live on sound bites--that's what influnces our "world perception". (Axis of Evil? WTF?)

Granted I don't know what countries you've lived in however I do know that if you lived in an established European country you'd have seen that they have much better textbook news coverage and reporting. (It still sucks on the whole though)

Boy am I cynical.

Don't worry. The average European and the average Asian is just as dumb as the average American. They don't have any media choices and their few sources are biased. Quite sad really.

I never trust any statistic posted in a political ad. From either side. Again, I would like to see the number of Americans who actually want health insurance but cannot afford it.

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_healthinsurance.gif

Ummmm that is not an ad and it is based on the Bureau of the Census, US Department of Commerce. So if you don't trust those figures, I can't help you.

I am also an above average wage earner and if I were living in Canada I'd be paying about $12000 more in taxes every year, a punitive rate for a person who just got out of graduate school. Also, my current health insurance policy costs about as much as my car insurance... but since I'm under 25 my car insurance is a massive rip-off.
Ummm perhaps you should check the fine print on your health coverage to see exactly what you coverage is good for?

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

By 2006 the average family health insurance premium will exceed $14,500; premium costs will have increased by more than $5,000 in just three years.

Increasing at a rate that is five times the inflation rate, health care spending in 2003 continues to rise at the fastest rate in our history.

In 2002, health insurance premiums rose at a rate eight times faster than general inflation; experiencing the largest one-year surge in premiums in more than a decade. In the absence of comprehensive reform, the average annual premium for employer-sponsored family health insurance could reach $14,545.

Many experts agree that our health care system is riddled with inefficiencies, excessive expenses, inflated prices, poor management, inappropriate care, waste and fraud. These problems significantly increase the cost of medical care and the cost of health insurance for employers and consumers.

It also looks like it is going to get more costly. :eek:

You might want to check your source, I find the numbers posted by those trial lawyers dubous. Also, compute the malpractice rate per capita.

Did you read my post at ALL? I am getting tired of explaining things that you are obviously skimming over. The numbers are from JAMA Nov. 20, 2002 report. As I said, the JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association), must be subscribed to, therefore, I could not link it directly. Subscribe and look up the source yourself if you are so dubious. Unlike many around here, I fact check everything I type, so don't even try calling me out unless you can PROVE I have screwed up my information. I'm not just picking fights here, but looking to make corrections to erroneous and unsubstantiated claims so that others will not be misled.

Also, if you want to analize the data PER CAPITA, do it yourself and prove whatever point you are trying to make. If the fact that malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the US doesn't alarm you then you are simply refusing to be open-minded about this issue, and are adding little constructive content to the discussion at hand.

gee, you win.

I guess that why Canadians have waiting lines for needed surgery longer than Us lines for ELECTIVE surgery.

edit: oh, just to be spiteful, if canada never existed, exactly what impact would it have on the world? I mean canadians havent exactly created anything. Developed nothing, made a differance in no ones life, invented nothing. developed nothing.

You are basically an insignificant country(with great strip clubs), that has never done anything of worth, never will do anything of value, and enjoy your security because the country that you belittle will protect you regardless of your infidelity.

So my Canadian compatriot, FUCK OFF, what are you gonna do? cry? go to the UN? OH, and before you ask, I used to respect you guys a hell of a lot.
Elective surgery yes and from what I gather, you have waiting lines for non elective surgery as per another poster?

BTW, our Federal Government has just negotiated a better health care deal with the Provinces, which should help allieviate those waiting lines.

Ummmm that is not an ad and it is based on the Bureau of the Census, US Department of Commerce. So if you don't trust those figures, I can't help you.

Study the link carefully. As I said, I want to see numbers on people who actually want health insurance but can't afford it.

Ummm perhaps you should check the fine print on your health coverage to see exactly what you coverage is good for?

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

By 2006 the average family health insurance premium will exceed $14,500; premium costs will have increased by more than $5,000 in just three years.

Increasing at a rate that is five times the inflation rate, health care spending in 2003 continues to rise at the fastest rate in our history.

In 2002, health insurance premiums rose at a rate eight times faster than general inflation; experiencing the largest one-year surge in premiums in more than a decade. In the absence of comprehensive reform, the average annual premium for employer-sponsored family health insurance could reach $14,545.

Many experts agree that our health care system is riddled with inefficiencies, excessive expenses, inflated prices, poor management, inappropriate care, waste and fraud. These problems significantly increase the cost of medical care and the cost of health insurance for employers and consumers.

It also looks like it is going to get more costly. :eek:

I can just taste the bias. Check your source. National Coalition on Healthcare?

Oh, just so you know, my company pays for my coverage and we get a big discount, so my premium is way off the average. But even if the average is double that, it's still cheaper than the Canadian cost per capita and the quality here is far better.

Take a guess at how long it took for the Canadian system to take care of my broken arm back when I was 12?

Let Germany vote; Pay for your own defence from Russia.
Let France vote; 13.4 billion in food aid, they cant even feed their own population.
Let Russia vote for our president, it would be Kerry.
Let Osama have a vote too while you are at it; it would be Kerry.

Cowards, generally like to pick someone that will not fight back. Kerry has a proven record of that. :sniper:

gee, you win.

I guess that why Canadians have waiting lines for needed surgery longer than Us lines for ELECTIVE surgery.

edit: oh, just to be spiteful, if canada never existed, exactly what impact would it have on the world? I mean canadians havent exactly created anything. Developed nothing, made a differance in no ones life, invented nothing. developed nothing.

You are basically an insignificant country(with great strip clubs), that has never done anything of worth, never will do anything of value, and enjoy your security because the country that you belittle will protect you regardless of your infidelity.

So my Canadian compatriot, FUCK OFF, what are you gonna do? cry? go to the UN? OH, and before you ask, I used to respect you guys a hell of a lot.
What you personally think about me or my country is really not important and if you think that your personal attack bothers me then you are thinking too highly of yourself. Like I said though if you wish to wallow in ignorance be my guest, I shall not lose sleep over it.

You are so stupid, you dont even realize your stupidity.
(Skipped idle rant)
Of Course, Your Canadian so you probably are unable to understand these concepts. Good luck waiting a year to get you kidney removed.

I really despise it when anyone resorts to name calling in a discussion forum. I am stupid? You quote me, in which quote I start by saying that I live in the US...then you proceed to label me as a Canadian. Interesting.... but I'm just some stupid Canadian right (even though I stated I am from the US)?

DO EVERYONE A FAVOR AND PAY ATTENTION, or please refrain from ranting without the support of evidence. Thanks.

Study the link carefully. As I said, I want to see numbers on people who actually want health insurance but can't afford it.
Well go and do some research like I have done. Give me counter links to disprove my numbers?

I can just taste the bias. Check your source. National Coalition on Healthcare?

The National Coalition on Health Care is the nation’s largest and most broadly representative alliance working to improve America’s health care. The Coalition, which was founded in 1990 and is non-profit and rigorously non-partisan, is comprised of almost 100 organizations, employing or representing about 150 million Americans. Members are united in the belief that we need – and can achieve – better, more affordable health care for all Americans.

Just small potatoes huh?


Oh, just so you know, my company pays for my coverage and we get a big discount, so my premium is way off the average. But even if the average is double that, it's still cheaper than the Canadian cost per capita and the quality here is far better.
Well you are one of the fortunate ones then? Before there was universal healthcare in Canada, some people I know very well lost their house due to huge health care bills. The mother, one daughter, and the son had to stay in a sanatorium for treatment of TB. What happens to americans without health care that have catastrophic health problems in their families? A lifetime bill to the hospital?

Take a guess at how long it took for the Canadian system to take care of my broken arm back when I was 12?
Please do tell.

You can blame John Edwards for the exorbitant costs of malpractice insurance.
Sure blame John Edwards because some doctors are incompetent. Think about what you are saying?

You might want to check your source, I find the numbers posted by those trial lawyers dubous. Also, compute the malpractice rate per capita.
You think everything is dubious yet you cannot counter with evidence of your own, so shall we just call your replies biased or highly speculative?

Is this why there are more MRI's in Queens than all of Canada? If thsi why my uncle would be dead if he lived in Canada instead of the US where his wife paid privately for an mri which his his doctor didnt request but showed a tumor? is this why you idiot canucks have to offload you mri workload to buffalo?

You are so stupid, you dont even realize your stupidity.

I make my living from the govt health care system. Its because of morons such as yourself that the govt is able to pass off as reasonable.

Do you realize the govt pays me just under 4 times for the same procedure that private insurance does.

do you also understand the corruption when govt is involved? No, of course you do not. We recently bought a practice, the doctor passed away. 6 months later we figured out that the doctors wife was still billing the govt. She was claiming that the doctor was still seeing the patients. Unfortunately, the doctor was DEAD!!!!!!!!

The govt only called us cuse they were sick of getting harassed by her. We pointed out that he died in April and that she was committing FRAUD.

Of Course, Your Canadian so you probably are unable to understand these concepts. Good luck waiting a year to get you kidney removed.

Here, do yourself a favour and get some edumacation:

http://www.freep.com/news/health/health21_20030821.htm

http://www.allhealth.org/sourcebook2002/ch8_8.html

http://consumeraffairs.com/news03/health_costs.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3908645/

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040503-084924-5336r.htm

Canada has the best ranking for five-year survival of kidney and liver transplant patients.

I find it extremely difficult to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. :eek:

Is this why there are more MRI's in Queens than all of Canada?
(random ranting deleted)
You are so stupid, you dont even realize your stupidity.


Again, no sources to this incredulous claim. I found the number of MRIs in Canada according to the Canadian Coordinating Office for Health Technology Assessment ( WWW.CCOHTA.CA ) (March 2002), that Canada had a total of 110 MRIs.

Strangely, I could find no solid numbers on how many MRIs are in Queens. There aren't even any good numbers on NY state! But I did find this:
"But because the activities of doctors are largely outside the state health department's purview, regulators do not even know how many M.R.I. machines there are in New York." New York Times (March 13, 2004).

So just how did you come to the conclusion that there are more MRIs in Queens than in all of Canada. YOU WOULDN'T BE JUST MAKING UP STUFF NOW WOULD YOU????

Please, stop making yourself look silly in front of everyone. Open another window and use Google please. Or better yet, open a book and quit making up information so that you can "win" every discussion. Please.

Austria 94% Kerry
Belgium 92% Kerry
Bulgaria 80% Kerry
Croatia 96% Kerry
Czechia 82% Kerry
Denmark 91% Kerry
Finland 92% Kerry
France 95% Kerry
Germany 92% Kerry
Greece 96% Kerry
Hungary 90% Kerry
Iceland 91% Kerry
Ireland 95% Kerry
Italy 85% Kerry
Luxembourg 92% Kerry
Monaco 90% Kerry
Netherlands 87% Kerry
Norway 91% Kerry
Poland 67% Kerry
Portugal 90% Kerry
Romania 75% Kerry
Slovakia 89% Kerry
Slovenia 94% Kerry
Spain 89% Kerry
Sweden 90% Kerry
Switzerland 94% Kerry
United Kingdom 90% Kerry

Foreigners usually have a very poor understanding of US policy

I think it's the other way around. I think foreigners in many ways have a better understanding of how the world really works then Americans, mostly due to the fact that Americans never seem to step outside the box, they only have knowledge based on their own doings and have very little information on the rest of the world besides themselves, which makes them less informed, not more.

I'd say on average, the Reuters news service is more biased and anti-American than the state-controlled Xinhua service in China.
Exaggeration? Could you give examples of this anti-Americanism in Reuters? Isn't Reuters American? And how is leftist = anti-American?

Wow, check it out, my country, Ireland, is one of the most anti-Bush in the world. He only has 5% support here. Only Croatia, Greece and France hate him more!

I have yet to see someone on the boards talk about how many people die in waiting lines in universal health care solutions. But hen again I guess death in these types of societies is less important because they are are too stupid to understand profit motives lead to less denial of services.
Isn't it the United States where 42 million people are without health insurance? In my country, Ireland, people sometimes have to wait for too long in the public health system. However, looking at successful countries like Sweden and Canada, this is a product of not enough socialism in healthcare, rather than too much. Also, our taxes here in Ireland are too low. The government doesn't spend enough on health.

whats the point of arguing with euro trash? I hate going to europe these days.

Old Europe, Canada = a joke on the world

US, China, India, UK, Australia, Eastean Euarope....These are societies worth something..
Wow, you really are the property of the Republican party, aren't you? I notice how the countries you say are "worth something" are those that happen to support the Iraq war. Coincidence?

First of all, I am European and here in "Old Europe" we have the highest standard of living in the world. We also have things like freedom of speech.

China - socialist dictatorship

India - poor country

UK - so many social problems, it's not even funny

Australia - irrelevant, but a nice place

Eastean Euarope - too conservative

So my Canadian compatriot, FUCK OFF, what are you gonna do? cry? go to the UN? OH, and before you ask, I used to respect you guys a hell of a lot.
I have reported you to the mods. The mods in white coats are coming for you. And no, it's not for being American or conservative, it's for being racist and flaming.

Wow....

Well, as a registered US voter who actually HAS a vote and intends to use it I can only say this....

Who cares what the rest of the world thinks regarding who we elect as our president? When the Austrians elected Kurt Waldhiem (sp) a known Nazi did THEY bow down to the rest of the world? No, they elected the man they felt was best to lead them. Thats what we will do and it looks more and more likely that it will be Bush again. Kerry just has too many questions to answer that he cannot. He says that raising the taxes on stock dividends will be good for the stock market, but cannot say HOW it will be good. He says he will only raise taxes on the rich like they do in Mass. Well.....in Mass. anyone making $88K a year is "rich." So there goes that one. He has not held a press conference in almost 40 days, where is he? He will be here in Orlando today for some sort of rally. Some here have made a big deal about him offering to pay for his extra security when visiting West Virginia after the floods there....but he has not offered the same here in Florida. In case you have not seen the news, we have had a bit of bad weather here as well.

So these polls from the rest of the world, while entertaining, are pretty much worthless. Those of us who CAN vote here are the only ones whose opinions matter, and we will make our opinions heard on Nov. 2nd. I expect there will be a lot of whining on the 3rd. ;)

Its interesting that the countries most biased against Bush are the "more civilized" countries, and the countries in the areas the US is attacking (afghanastan, iraq, pakistan etc) are close to equal popularity or even voting in bush's favour


Yeah, that is interesting, maybe they believe the 'bs government propoganda' that we're actually trying to free them. </sarcasm>

Foreigners usually have a very poor understanding of US policy (as do many people domestically, unfortunately, but they usually don't vote anyway), so I really couldn't care less how they'd vote. I consider it a point in Kerry's favor that he would have a clean slate if elected, but for me it just isn't a deciding factor. Better to pick a President who you feel is right but is hated by the world than to pick one with whom you disagree but is like by the world. And for the record, I am not a Bush supporter, but this is my two cents on the matter. Also, polls of this type on the Internet tend to attract more liberals than conservatives, so it really isn't representative.

A president is a rapresentative of a whole nation. Picking a hated president is asking for another 9/11...

A president is a rapresentative of a whole nation. Picking a hated president is asking for another 9/11...

Yeah, THATS why we were attacked. :rolleyes:

You really need to wake up.

Funny how the average European probably knows more about US foreign policy than the average American. Face it, on a whole, we're dumbasses. Our media sucks (its not just that its "too liberal" or "too conservative" it just plain ole sucks, its not credible, its sensational, its full blown business geared to making the most money possible). We live on sound bites--that's what influnces our "world perception". (Axis of Evil? WTF?)

Granted I don't know what countries you've lived in however I do know that if you lived in an established European country you'd have seen that they have much better textbook news coverage and reporting. (It still sucks on the whole though)

Boy am I cynical.

EDIT: took out a word and fixed a spelling error

Funny how I know more about American Foreign Policy than the average European. Funny how insignificant it is that they can rattle off who the leader of Pakistan is and lists the date of the Korean War. Funny how so many people feel that they have some sort of great understanding of America's "grand strategy of world domination"(tm), when most of them don't understand jackshit.

If all you ever look at is the surface occurences, the who did what to whom, which is the most that the average citizen usually knows, you can connect the dots however you like but you will never understand the truth about foreign policy. It is only when you dig deeper, figure out the whys and the hows, that you understand that there is no master strategy, that there is no one overriding factor that determines what a country does or does not do, but that each and every situation is unique, even if the policymakers at the time were incapable of realizing that. Honestly, the ignorance that i see coming out of people day in and day out saddens me more than it sickens me, and reaffirms my belief, a belief that is shared by most people in foreign policy, that the public should have only a very small role in determining what policy should be.

[Gaeltach #1]
Current stats when I visited:

All Countries:
Bush:21220
Kerry:136303
Bush: 13 %
Kerry: 86 %


I find somewhat of a powerful message in that.

Check it out for yourself - the country by country breakdown is pretty interesting. http://www.betavote.com/

Which tells me that the world should not be allowed to vote on things American.

Which means nothing.

Any moron that would suggest that the way the world thinks of America should have anything to do with the way that America operates, is promoting "world government".

Which most of you morons do...!

:)

Leave American "stuff" to Americans, and we'll leave your "stuff" to you.

And if you're an American that thinks that America should subserviate itself to anyone, you should simply leave.

So these polls from the rest of the world, while entertaining, are pretty much worthless. Those of us who CAN vote here are the only ones whose opinions matter, and we will make our opinions heard on Nov. 2nd. I expect there will be a lot of whining on the 3rd. ;)
Hopefully the whining will come from the Republicans after Kerry comes from behind and steals the election.

Should Bush prevail, I am certain there will be an ever increasing whining from BOTH camps, as Bush continues to fumble with the American economy, and more wars are pursued, after the draft in re-instated, after ever increasing terrorist attacks, after continued erosion of stability in the Middle East, after more Americans become marginalized by an impersonal and ever confrontational administration, and on and on I could go.

Bush has shown what the US is capable of and I am afraid that most of it has been that of failure. Contrary what you or anyone here may think, I and many others are not anti US but certainly anti Bush. The US beacon continues to diminish as the country heads down the path of ignorance and intolerance. Hopefully, Kerry and the Democrats can put America back on the right path once more.

Which tells me that the world should not be allowed to vote on things American.

Which means nothing.

Any moron that would suggest that the way the world thinks of America should have anything to do with the way that America operates, is promoting "world government".

Which most of you morons do...!

:)

Leave American "stuff" to Americans, and we'll leave your "stuff" to you.

And if you're an American that thinks that America should subserviate itself to anyone, you should simply leave.

All I said was that it was interesting. I did not imply anything.

And everyone is entitled to freedom of opinion. Just because someone doesn't agree with you is no reason for them to leave the country. The funny thing about this, is how you would probably be one of the ones praising me for being willing to lay down my life to protect this country, in another thread.

[CanuckHeaven #79]Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff Pileon
So these polls from the rest of the world, while entertaining, are pretty much worthless. Those of us who CAN vote here are the only ones whose opinions matter, and we will make our opinions heard on Nov. 2nd. I expect there will be a lot of whining on the 3rd.

Hopefully the whining will come from the Republicans after Kerry comes from behind and steals the election.

Should Bush prevail, I am certain there will be an ever increasing whining from BOTH camps, as Bush continues to fumble with the American economy, and more wars are pursued, after the draft in re-instated, after ever increasing terrorist attacks, after continued erosion of stability in the Middle East, after more Americans become marginalized by an impersonal and ever confrontational administration, and on and on I could go.

Bush has shown what the US is capable of and I am afraid that most of it has been that of failure. Contrary what you or anyone here may think, I and many others are not anti US but certainly anti Bush. The US beacon continues to diminish as the country heads down the path of ignorance and intolerance. Hopefully, Kerry and the Democrats can put America back on the right path once more.

The US beacon will always outshine all others.

Yours included.

And that's as it should be, as all others rely on ours for survival and invigoration.

Regardless of who wins (Bush/Flipper), America will win, as our most important goal is to continue being the beacon of "good", which all of us will fight for against the powers of destruction and death.

And the great purveyors of destruction and death are those who think that America is evil.

So ask yourself, "Is America evil..?"

[Gaeltach #80]Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
Which tells me that the world should not be allowed to vote on things American.

Which means nothing.

Any moron that would suggest that the way the world thinks of America should have anything to do with the way that America operates, is promoting "world government".

Which most of you morons do...!

Leave American "stuff" to Americans, and we'll leave your "stuff" to you.

And if you're an American that thinks that America should subserviate itself to anyone, you should simply leave.

All I said was that it was interesting. I did not imply anything.

And everyone is entitled to freedom of opinion. Just because someone doesn't agree with you is no reason for them to leave the country. The funny thing about this, is how you would probably be one of the ones praising me for being willing to lay down my life to protect this country, in another thread.

No implication taken. :)

Just my opinion of those who might think that what the world thinks of America actually means anything.

Those who would fight for the country are an asset. Those who would subserviate the country to others should leave what they do not value,.. the country.

I'd praise all patriots. :)

Bush: 13 %
Kerry: 86 %

All the reason to vote for Bush imo.

Bush: 13 %
Kerry: 86 %

All the reason to vote for Bush imo.

Out of curiosity, why?

there is no master strategy, that there is no one overriding factor that determines what a country does or does not do, but that each and every situation is unique
This isn't true. No I'm not inventing conspiracy theories. Surely the fact that you have "doctrines" such as the Truman Doctrine, Monroe Doctrine (irrelevant now), and the pre-emptive strike Bush Doctrine. These indicate somewhat a unification of policy actions to form a master strategy.

Out of curiosity, why?
I would guess that it's because he's a radical nationalist who hates everyone else?

This really has no impact, America being a soveriegn country and all.
Aside form that, how many of the average Europeans really know anything about John Kerry? Bush is a public figure and a conservative, which means that even if he turned out to be the second coming of Christ, the media would despise him. Kerry, he's been a senator who has missed repeated votes and meetings while running around and making speeches.
The people who voted in other countries are drastically underinformed because of the simple fact that they don't have to care.

Sorry I dont want him out, I want him to win,
if he looses he looses I will accept that
if he wins
the heck with what the world wants
its an american election, where we
have a choice, unlike some nations
that have elections, and no choice.

multiple reasons really all factored together in varying doses of importance to me personally. I wont go into how much of each reason is relevant as you will pick and choose from what I say no matter what. ;)

I like the fact that the US is not like the rest of the world. I have been to all continents except Africa (prior to this administration) and frankly, you couldnt pay me enough to live anywhere else.
I think that its a good thing that the US got to put its military to good use finally. I think that a show of force occasionally is a good thing, look what it did for Libya.
I think that having a leader that your enemies fear is a good thing.
I think that having a leader your allys cant predict is a good thing.
I think that international acceptance of our president is unnecessary.
I think it would be fun listening to people complain about him for another 4 years.

multiple reasons really all factored together in varying doses of importance to me personally. I wont go into how much of each reason is relevant as you will pick and choose from what I say no matter what. ;)

I like the fact that the US is not like the rest of the world. I have been to all continents except Africa (prior to this administration) and frankly, you couldnt pay me enough to live anywhere else.
I think that its a good thing that the US got to put its military to good use finally. I think that a show of force occasionally is a good thing, look what it did for Libya.
I think that having a leader that your enemies fear is a good thing.
I think that having a leader your allys cant predict is a good thing.
I think that international acceptance of our president is unnecessary.
I think it would be fun listening to people complain about him for another 4 years.

Put the military to good use? Do you not realize that these are real men and women, many of whom will be injured or die? That is not "good use." A large chunk of those currently deployed in the Middle East are reservists - people who are suppossed to guard the nation in time of need. These are people who have had their lives, families, careers, and educations put on hold.

Also, your Libya comment is somewhat irresponsible. Quadafi's change of heart has had more to do with the influence of his son who attended college in Britain. The Wall Street Journal did a story on that over a year and a half ago. Please read more, turn off the FOX news for a while.

Also, your Libya comment is somewhat irresponsible. Quadafi's change of heart has had more to do with the influence of his son who attended college in Britain. The Wall Street Journal did a story on that over a year and a half ago. Please read more, turn off the FOX news for a while.
He was probably just going by what Qaddafi said himself. :p

[Carnivore Chinchillas #90]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzamina
multiple reasons really all factored together in varying doses of importance to me personally. I wont go into how much of each reason is relevant as you will pick and choose from what I say no matter what.

I like the fact that the US is not like the rest of the world. I have been to all continents except Africa (prior to this administration) and frankly, you couldnt pay me enough to live anywhere else.
I think that its a good thing that the US got to put its military to good use finally. I think that a show of force occasionally is a good thing, look what it did for Libya.
I think that having a leader that your enemies fear is a good thing.
I think that having a leader your allys cant predict is a good thing.
I think that international acceptance of our president is unnecessary.
I think it would be fun listening to people complain about him for another 4 years.

Put the military to good use? Do you not realize that these are real men and women, many of whom will be injured or die? That is not "good use." A large chunk of those currently deployed in the Middle East are reservists - people who are suppossed to guard the nation in time of need. These are people who have had their lives, families, careers, and educations put on hold.

Also, your Libya comment is somewhat irresponsible. Quadafi's change of heart has had more to do with the influence of his son who attended college in Britain. The Wall Street Journal did a story on that over a year and a half ago. Please read more, turn off the FOX news for a while.

Those in the military are volunteers.

What is the major risk asociated with being in the military..?

[Carnivore Chinchillas #90]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzamina
multiple reasons really all factored together in varying doses of importance to me personally. I wont go into how much of each reason is relevant as you will pick and choose from what I say no matter what.

I like the fact that the US is not like the rest of the world. I have been to all continents except Africa (prior to this administration) and frankly, you couldnt pay me enough to live anywhere else.
I think that its a good thing that the US got to put its military to good use finally. I think that a show of force occasionally is a good thing, look what it did for Libya.
I think that having a leader that your enemies fear is a good thing.
I think that having a leader your allys cant predict is a good thing.
I think that international acceptance of our president is unnecessary.
I think it would be fun listening to people complain about him for another 4 years.

Put the military to good use? Do you not realize that these are real men and women, many of whom will be injured or die? That is not "good use." A large chunk of those currently deployed in the Middle East are reservists - people who are suppossed to guard the nation in time of need. These are people who have had their lives, families, careers, and educations put on hold.

Also, your Libya comment is somewhat irresponsible. Quadafi's change of heart has had more to do with the influence of his son who attended college in Britain. The Wall Street Journal did a story on that over a year and a half ago. Please read more, turn off the FOX news for a while.

Those in the military are volunteers.

What is the major risk asociated with being in the military..?

When we sign up, we know we might be asked to die. That does not mean we are looking for a chance to do so.

[Gaeltach #93]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
[Carnivore Chinchillas #90]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzamina
multiple reasons really all factored together in varying doses of importance to me personally. I wont go into how much of each reason is relevant as you will pick and choose from what I say no matter what.

I like the fact that the US is not like the rest of the world. I have been to all continents except Africa (prior to this administration) and frankly, you couldnt pay me enough to live anywhere else.
I think that its a good thing that the US got to put its military to good use finally. I think that a show of force occasionally is a good thing, look what it did for Libya.
I think that having a leader that your enemies fear is a good thing.
I think that having a leader your allys cant predict is a good thing.
I think that international acceptance of our president is unnecessary.
I think it would be fun listening to people complain about him for another 4 years.

Put the military to good use? Do you not realize that these are real men and women, many of whom will be injured or die? That is not "good use." A large chunk of those currently deployed in the Middle East are reservists - people who are suppossed to guard the nation in time of need. These are people who have had their lives, families, careers, and educations put on hold.

Also, your Libya comment is somewhat irresponsible. Quadafi's change of heart has had more to do with the influence of his son who attended college in Britain. The Wall Street Journal did a story on that over a year and a half ago. Please read more, turn off the FOX news for a while.

Those in the military are volunteers.

What is the major risk asociated with being in the military..?



When we sign up, we know we might be asked to die. That does not mean we are looking for a chance to do so.

I would hope not. Who was it that said your job isn't to die for your country, it's to make sure some other son-of-a-bitch dies for his..!?

But the consequences of taking the-man's bucks are to do the-man's bidding.

Or jail is a nifty alternative. Quite acceptable to me for those who'd rather not fight. THAT would make a statement, wouldn't it..? The entirety of the US military arrested and imprisoned.

I would think it would say, "Come and get us! We just don't care anymore."

And the invasion would accelerate.

And you don't set policy as to the use of the US military. Unless you're not telling us your REAL position..! :)

I'm back and whoa this turn a wild turn. I agree with some and disagree with others. Are we going to go into the whole Iraq war yet? I mean comon you've hit all the other issues and I'm good at that one.

As was posted before. You signed up to serve and protect the US if you joined to go threw college or what not you are in for the wrong reason. Iraq was a time of need.

Hey did you hear what kerry said? Something about "lets do something about north korea the real problem" I guess he wants another cuban missle crisis on his hands.

Well since I only read bits and pieces I'm just going to leave it as that. 4 pages of info to argue about no thanx...

This isn't true. No I'm not inventing conspiracy theories. Surely the fact that you have "doctrines" such as the Truman Doctrine, Monroe Doctrine (irrelevant now), and the pre-emptive strike Bush Doctrine. These indicate somewhat a unification of policy actions to form a master strategy.

And I believe, and most analysis backs me up on this, that these doctrines were dangerously flawed. In Vietnam, for example, we tried to apply containment policy even though we were fighting an independent nationalist movement that only adopted communism after we rebuffed them. Most of the mistakes in US foreign policy can be traced back to a universal application of a broad strategic doctrine in unique situations in which this doctrine was counterproductive. Sometimes we have to get in bed with our enemies and sometimes we have to stiff our friends. The only arbiter in the end is whether or not we got what we wanted (although in the case of allies one should hope that we want the same things, and should attempt to preserve such a consensus in order to diversify our options and capabilities).