NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

I heard the Communists did well too.

There are no communists in germany. If you are referring to the far left, the PDS, yes, they did well too but they do traditionally well in the 'wild east'.

far left = commies

I'd like to think your country's new right wing parties are a little different than Hitler's. Maybe you're jumping the gun little a bit.

I think this may be more of a revolt against Shroeder's policies. The extreme-right parties gained significantly in the UK for the Euro elections too.

I think this may be more of a revolt against Shroeder's policies. The extreme-right parties gained significantly in the UK for the Euro elections too.

Well, surely there is a protest against Schröder, but IMNSCO that is not the full story: people lost their hope in the opposition and voted far right/left as protest. This is a sign of a bigger crisis, not just of the SPD or Schröder.


I'd like to think your country's new right wing parties are a little different than Hitler's. Maybe you're jumping the gun little a bit.

well, I am afraid that the whole story repeats. I don't know if you read 'Der Schlund' a book about the new rise of a far-right wing rule in .de. I see too many paralells between that book and the current situation.

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

In Britain in the last lot of local elections (town and city government not national government) the far right British National Party got a few seats on local councils, and polled up to 15% in many places where they stood and lost. They are a racist party, but people voted for them in protest without realising who they were voting for. Since then a few undercover TV documentaries have shown BNP members saying and doing racist things, and people are shocked by this (when to anyone who knows about politics, we know they have always been racist).

So it is not just Germany. There are nazi parties in France (lePen), the dutch guy who was assassinated, the Austrian whose name I can't remember. We just have to stick together and keep anti-nazi people in the majority.

I am not at all surprised and rather hope the arrogant fucks that call themselves politicians would finally realize that they destroy democracy if they keep up the anti-human politics going on for a few years now. Protest or not, if they do not take this seriously, they will have a rough awakening in NRW and in 2006.

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!
And how exactly can you be ashamed for being German? You do not have to be here. If you don't like it here, you are free to move elsewhere. The election was the result of the destructive national politics of the current government and a distrust votum to both established parties. We suffer from the same issues the Americans have - 2 parties and neither is suitable to solve our issues.

well, I am afraid that the whole story repeats. I don't know if you read 'Der Schlund' a book about the new rise of a far-right wing rule in .de. I see too many paralells between that book and the current situation.
Paranoid people write books all the time and people buy them. Europeans are the most liberal people on the planet. I have a hard time imagining that any right wing group could maintain control for long in Germany especially after the way the German populus was "deprogrammed" after WW2.

And how exactly can you be ashamed for being German? You do not have to be here. If you don't like it here, you are free to move elsewhere. The election was the result of the destructive national politics of the current government and a distrust votum to both established parties. We suffer from the same issues the Americans have - 2 parties and neither is suitable to solve our issues.

Well stated!

Unfortunately the biggest problem worldwide is that we have a major lack of good quality leadership. You only get to the top by being a politician (definition below).

1 : a person experienced in the art or science of government; especially : one actively engaged in conducting the business of a government
2 a : a person engaged in party politics as a profession b : a person primarily interested in political office for selfish or other narrow usually short-sighted reasons

Hey, I'm from Singapore here. Personally I would think that the German citizens were slightly displeased with Schroeder;s policies or something, so they voted for the other sides I guess.

And I don;t think that qualifies you for being ashamed for being a German...one should be proud of his own country, his heritage, and all. At least that's what my Social Studies textbook tells me... :D :P

And how exactly can you be ashamed for being German? You do not have to be here. If you don't like it here, you are free to move elsewhere. The election was the result of the destructive national politics of the current government and a distrust votum to both established parties. We suffer from the same issues the Americans have - 2 parties and neither is suitable to solve our issues.

I have to live here. The freedom to move is rather theoretical atm. I know that people voted in protest... but hell, is there any country with competent leaders other than cuba?

I have to live here. The freedom to move is rather theoretical atm. I know that people voted in protest... but hell, is there any country with competent leaders other than cuba?
I am sure that there are more competent leaders than Schroeder, Bush and Co. These arrogant rich people who are detached from the average joe citizens constantly shovel money into their pockets, while preaching that everyone has to reduce spending and asking more and more sacrifices from people who already have nothing. It's monarchy in disguise of democracy. The whole system is flawed and needs to be overthrown and replaced with something else. The way it currently is and has been for the last 50 years, has led the country to the edge of collapse.

I am sure that there are more competent leaders than Schroeder, Bush and Co. These arrogant rich people who are detached from the average joe citizens constantly shovel money into their pockets, while preaching that everyone has to reduce spending and asking more and more sacrifices from people who already have nothing. It's monarchy in disguise of democracy. The whole system is flawed and needs to be overthrown and replaced with something else. The way it currently is and has been for the last 50 years, has led the country to the edge of collapse.

100% ACK :(

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!
Yes, I know it's terrible what just happened. What makes it worse is that most people don't actually want the Nazi parties, they just voted for them to protest against Schröder's current government.

Are you talking about the city council elections (Kommunalwahlen)? I will vote and I already know I'll vote for the CDU.

100% ACK :(
There's nothing to be shocked over. The development will continue in this direction, if unemployment and poverty is not drastically reduced here. The environment is ideal for right-wing extremeists to grab those who are affected by the disastrous economic situation or who fear that they may be next with losing their job and being forced to work like slaves for 1-Euro-Jobs (that is bordering slavery!)

The people are fed up with the wolves in sheep pelts, they want a better democracy, less cowering before corporations and reduction of welfare, more financial equality for all people, more control for the people on all issues. That the established parties continue to ignore this demand from the electing population, will cost them dearly within the next 2 years.

Yes, I know it's terrible what just happened. What makes it worse is that most people don't actually want the Nazi parties, they just voted for them to protest against Schröder's current government.

Are you talking about the city council elections (Kommunalwahlen)? I will vote and I already know I'll vote for the CDU.
I did.

Well, I would not vote CDU if they were the only party to vote, but that is a long story and my personal view. At last they are better than NPD, DVU, Republikaner and that.

There's nothing to be shocked over. The development will continue in this direction, if unemployment and poverty is not drastically reduced here. The environment is ideal for right-wing extremeists to grab those who are affected by the disastrous economic situation or who fear that they may be next with losing their job and being forced to work like slaves for 1-Euro-Jobs (that is bordering slavery!)

The people are fed up with the wolves in sheep pelts, they want a better democracy, less cowering before corporations and reduction of welfare, more financial equality for all people, more control for the people on all issues. That the established parties continue to ignore this demand from the electing population, will cost them dearly within the next 2 years.

I know that, I was not shocked but sad, that was what the smiley wanted to say. A sad truth, to which I can only agree. :/ :\

Germany got really good FOOD!!! :D

Actually, a lot of people mistake Fascism as Hitlerism--the extermination of races, and that is ignorant. Fascism is not necessarily a bad thing, and actually forms strong governments. The Fascist regimes in Spain, Italy, and Germany all had more productive governments and happier people than the Communist ones in the Eastern Block countries. So that just proves that Conservativism is more condusive for productive governments than Liberalism.

Actually, a lot of people mistake Fascism as Hitlerism--the extermination of races, and that is ignorant. Fascism is not necessarily a bad thing, and actually forms strong governments. The Fascist regimes in Spain, Italy, and Germany all had more productive governments and happier people than the Communist ones in the Eastern Block countries. So that just proves that Conservativism is more condusive for productive governments than Liberalism.

Not to forget Salazar in Portugal. Yes. Western Europe has had their fair share of right wing dictators. Dictators none the less and all have been overthrown. I am not entirely sure that Spaniards who are old enough to remember Franco will agree with you on them being happier than their Eastern European counterparts. All they know is that they were pretty miserable and that they are happy Franco was overthrown.
Like Stalinism most flavours of Fascism is contra-democratic and opposed to open elections. The government openly use force. Luckily I have a vote and the will to use it against the right wing intrusion in European politics. It is alright to be critical and discontent, but please be constructive. Don't ask for something you don't want - you might wind up getting it.
If I see some redeeming factors in Fascism I will consider it. As for now I see none.

In Britain in the last lot of local elections (town and city government not national government) the far right British National Party got a few seats on local councils, and polled up to 15% in many places where they stood and lost. They are a racist party, but people voted for them in protest without realising who they were voting for. Since then a few undercover TV documentaries have shown BNP members saying and doing racist things, and people are shocked by this (when to anyone who knows about politics, we know they have always been racist).
Unfortunately that isn't true- the documentry has done nothing to halt their rise. In their lastest election (Dagenham) they got more votes then all the other parties added together. :(

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

What I love about the far left (around the world, not just in Germany or the US) is that there MUST be free elections, but anyone who doesn't vote like them must be crazy.

But it's always the same with ultra liberals (or the ultra conservatives, but it seems to be less so with them of late): think like me or you are the enemy!!

I'm an Independent, yet many of my Democratic friends have reservations about coming to my quadrennial Election Night party because "You're a Republican". What? News to me... but apparently because I'm anti-gun control and pro tax cut that "trumps" my beliefs in Pro-Choice and not caring about gay marriage. Silly me!

But back to Rejistania: You should never be ashamed of who you are as long as the process works. We're talking about people voting differently, not some putsch or coup d' etat. If you want to live in a Democracy, you have to not only allow but RESPECT dissention.

As you know, there were many, many problems in the Weimar Republic, not least of which was depending on an old, tired Field Marshal to run the country. The situation of Germany today -- politically, economically, etc is much removed from the 30's. It is notable that Fascism didn't take hold in openly free nations like USA, France, or the UK during the Depression. A *LOT* would have to happen for Germany to "go that way" again. For that matter, I don't see Austria militarizing and getting ready to reconquer Prague, Budapest and Sarajevo again, either.

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

Yes that is a jump for NPD but--6% or 9% of the vote hardly constitutes a rightist takeover. Unless your major parties are so evenly matched that they would have to take NPD into a coalition, I don't know.
I can understand the fear though. I was in Austria in October 1999, during the election that got Haider's party into the government there. Couple weeks later I was in Slovakia and people there were very nervous--Haider wanted
to throw out all foreigners and a lot of Slovaks go to Austria to work. Movements like this seem to come and go in Europe but when it's Hitler's homeland,. everyone sits up and takes notice.
Anyway no need to be ashamed, you can still vote these guys out.

I have to live here. The freedom to move is rather theoretical atm. I know that people voted in protest... but hell, is there any country with competent leaders other than cuba?

Cuba has competent leaders? That is a new one on me!

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

In our region (Flanders) the Extreme right wing has almost become the largest party. The reason for their succes is them constantly playing the victim of "government actions against them". Many fucking stupid assed flemings voted for them out of protest against the current bad policies. They weren't that bad, but extreme right uses almost all of their fundings for propaganda. Constantly bashing the current politics. But good news is coming. Now that they are almost big enough to become member of the regional government, they start to crumble and make mistakes themselves. As long as they don't actually have to do politics, they are strong, bashing someone is easier than doing something constructive. Anyhow, I'm ashamed about this too. But most of their votes don't come from racists, just angry and disapointed fuckheads that don't realise you can't do everything right and get everything for free.

Cuba has competent leaders? That is a new one on me!
Well, you can say much about Cuba, but you can not say the leaders are incompetent. just think of all the difficulties their country experiences. And despie that the cuban standard of life is relatively high in comparism to similar nations.

the dutch guy who was assassinated
Pim Fortuyn was not a nazi.

Pim Fortuyn was not a nazi.
he had pretty extreme-right ideas

Not to forget Salazar in Portugal. Yes. Western Europe has had their fair share of right wing dictators. Dictators none the less and all have been overthrown. I am not entirely sure that Spaniards who are old enough to remember Franco will agree with you on them being happier than their Eastern European counterparts. All they know is that they were pretty miserable and that they are happy Franco was overthrown.
Like Stalinism most flavours of Fascism is contra-democratic and opposed to open elections. The government openly use force. Luckily I have a vote and the will to use it against the right wing intrusion in European politics. It is alright to be critical and discontent, but please be constructive. Don't ask for something you don't want - you might wind up getting it.
If I see some redeeming factors in Fascism I will consider it. As for now I see none.
Franco wasn't overthrown. He died of old age.

he had pretty extreme-right ideas
Right. Yes, certainly. Extreme. Thats just what the smear campaign against him, which led to his assasination, claimed.

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!
The DVU got 5.8% if I'm not mistaking. And you are completly taking things out of perspective here. They had more then 12% a few years back in Sachsen-Anhalt. But where completly gone again after the next elections.

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

I'm German, too, and I never felt ashamed to be German. The people in Sachsen and Brandenburg used their right to elect whom they want - that's all. The big parties have got the result of thier
Well, normally I am not, but when I read the results of the elections in Sachsen and Brandenburg, I felt like this: The extreme right-wing parties in both states passed the 5% hurdle with ease. In Sachsen, the NPD got 9.3% (13 seats), In Brandenburg, the DVU got 6.2% (6 seats) and is stronger than the established parties B90/Grüne and FDP.

Gah, did people forget that last time people voted right-wing in protest, Hitler came to power? If anyone from NRW is reading this: vote on the 26th and don't vote extreme right!

I'm German, too, and I never felt ashamed to be German. The people in Sachsen and Brandenburg used their right to elect whom they want - that's all. The big parties have got the result of their arrogance and their unclear politics. I'm not happy about the result of NPD and DVU, but in my eyes the 6-9% rightwing are not more dangerous, horrible or whatever than the votes for the leftwings from the PDS.

I don't live in NRW; it's difficult to compare the results there with Sachsen and Brandenburg because at communal elections are more important the local candidates. Our next elections are in February 2005; you can be sure I'm not going to vote for NPD. But also not for the established parties: For this you can be as sure.

By the way, thank you @all for your very objective, non-exited comments in this forum!

Upps, sorry for the long text, was not my intention to put so many posts. I'm not so often in this forum :-)