Suppose McCain had been nominated in 2000 and won; what would our situation be today?
Roach-Busters
19-09-2004, 00:39
Any thoughts?
La Terra di Liberta
19-09-2004, 00:43
Well, it would be a-hell-of-a lot better than it is now. McCain is more moderate and therefore wouldn't try to mess around with the Constitution, would have handled Iraq differently and certainly would have put a stop to those swift boat veterans ads because he himself was accused of being a traitor by Bush supporters.
Roachsylvania
19-09-2004, 00:43
A hell of a lot better than the current one, that's for damn sure.
Roach-Busters
19-09-2004, 00:43
he himself was accused of being a traitor by Bush supporters.
A traitor? What for? :confused:
La Terra di Liberta
19-09-2004, 00:46
A traitor? What for? :confused:
They said he deserted his division in Vietnam before he was a POW or something.
Proletarian Continents
19-09-2004, 00:47
Soooo much better!
Roach-Busters
19-09-2004, 00:48
They said he deserted his division in Vietnam before he was a POW or something.
That's stupid. I don't know about the desertion of his division, but McCain went through hell as a POW. I didn't think even Bush and his supporters would stoop so low as to throw around such accusations after all he went through over there.
La Terra di Liberta
19-09-2004, 00:50
That's stupid. I don't know about the desertion of his division, but McCain went through hell as a POW. I didn't think even Bush and his supporters would stoop so low as to throw around such accusations after all he went through over there.
Well, during a debate, McCain asked for an apology because at a rally in Texas or whatever for Bush, a veteran came up and accused McCain of deserting the army.
That's stupid. I don't know about the desertion of his division, but McCain went through hell as a POW. I didn't think even Bush and his supporters would stoop so low as to throw around such accusations after all he went through over there.
It was the typically untraceable attack-dog stuff. They also suggested that his time as a POW had made him unhinged. Rove is the obvious culprit, though, of course, nothing can be proved.
Push pollers also called voters suggesting McCain had fathered an illegitimate black child.
Roach-Busters
19-09-2004, 00:52
Ugh. How low can they get? (Retches in disgust)
La Terra di Liberta
19-09-2004, 00:56
I know, pretty sad stuff. My great uncle was in an Italian POW camp in WW2 and he gets pissed off at me if I even mention war when he's around.
Roach-Busters
19-09-2004, 00:57
I know, pretty sad stuff. My great uncle was in an Italian POW camp in WW2 and he gets pissed off at me if I even mention war when he's around.
A vet, eh? He certainly has my respect. :)
(Btw, I have a great-great uncle who fought in WWII)
Anticarnivoria
19-09-2004, 01:01
mccain would've been soo much better. he wouldn't have handled iraq differently, because there was never a reason to go there at all - and he wouldn't have let 9-11 happen, as bush did.
Ice Hockey Players
19-09-2004, 01:05
For one thing, if McCain had been nominated in 2000, he would have won far more confortably than Bush did. He would have won by at least a hundred electoral votes, carried a popular majority, gotten some Democrats to join his camp, and made Nader a non-factor. The Florida incident never would have happened, and if it had, it would have been inconsequential.
That said, the Patriot Act never would have come to fruition. Something would have been done that was less damaging to civil liberties, and perhaps the intelligence would have been beefed up, but no Patriot Act.
Best case scenario: McCain actually reads briefings about 9/11, does something about it, and though stopping it would be difficult, it could have been partially avoided, leaving the WTC only half destroyed and a plane downed off the coast of Manhattan Island or something. Hysteria still sweeps the nation, but it dies down more quickly, and terrorists are treated as common criminals, rounded up, and given a savage beating or something.
Worst case scenario: 9/11 happens as it does, the Patriot Act goes through Congress, and it doesn't do anything. People still get blown up as McCain isn't taken seriously, and al-Qaeda strikes the West Coast right after striking the East.
Thunderland
19-09-2004, 03:40
My vote would have gone to McCain in 2000. Not anymore after watching his behavior during this year's campaign.
But back in 2000, I would have crossed party lines to vote for him.
Roach-Busters
19-09-2004, 03:43
I can't stand McCain one bit, but I have to say, he wouldn't be as bad as Bush is.
MoeHoward
19-09-2004, 04:32
Ugh. How low can they get? (Retches in disgust)
It's called politics. That's why nice people never become the President. It's a dog eat dog world out there. It's fun to watch everyone insult each other. Why would you get sick over this? In fact we need more smears and attacks from both sides. :)
MoeHoward
19-09-2004, 04:37
That said, the Patriot Act never would have come to fruition. Something would have been done that was less damaging to civil liberties, and perhaps the intelligence would have been beefed up, but no Patriot Act.
Worst case scenario: 9/11 happens as it does, the Patriot Act goes through Congress, and it doesn't do anything. People still get blown up as McCain isn't taken seriously, and al-Qaeda strikes the West Coast right after striking the East.
What rights of your's have been trampled by the Patriot Act? Which civil liberties of yours' have been damaged? Do you feel the same way for the RICO (http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/rico/rico.htm) laws that have been on the books for years, which were done by the Democrats in the 60's. It's always funny how people think they are somehow being oppressed by the "Man" while typing on the internet, let alone NS.
Tuesday Heights
19-09-2004, 04:54
A hell of a lot better than the current one, that's for damn sure.
I agree whole-heartedly!
Ice Hockey Players
19-09-2004, 05:34
What rights of your's have been trampled by the Patriot Act? Which civil liberties of yours' have been damaged? Do you feel the same way for the RICO (http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/rico/rico.htm) laws that have been on the books for years, which were done by the Democrats in the 60's. It's always funny how people think they are somehow being oppressed by the "Man" while typing on the internet, let alone NS.
Wow...someone thinks I have concern only for myself. The bottom line is, civil liberties have been violated, not so much as the Constitution has been circumvented by the Patriot Act. Ask that to anyone locked up in prison without a trial, a lawyer, or so much as a charge for being an "enemy combatant."
By the way, your link on the RICO laws brings up a page, but all the links are broken on that page.
McCain would have been tolerable. He's against outright government interference in our private lives. As far as foreign policy though, he probably would have attacked Iraq balls-out like Bush...
the world may never know...until 2008 ;)
Siljhouettes
19-09-2004, 12:01
If McCain was up for election this year I would vote for him if I was American. Don't assume that everyone who dislikes Bush hates all Republicans and loves Democrats.
Sploddygloop
19-09-2004, 12:22
Who or what is a McCain?
Superpower07
19-09-2004, 13:42
McCain would not have been the screw-up Bush has been - while 9/11 may have happened McCain would prolly have been following the leads up to the attacks (unlike Bush) - and we might not have gone into Iraq
La Terra di Liberta
19-09-2004, 16:47
Who or what is a McCain?
First of all, it's "who" and second, he's a Republican that ran against Bush in 2000 for the Republican nomination.
Stephistan
19-09-2004, 17:02
What rights of your's have been trampled by the Patriot Act? Which civil liberties of yours' have been damaged? Do you feel the same way for the RICO (http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/rico/rico.htm) laws that have been on the books for years, which were done by the Democrats in the 60's. It's always funny how people think they are somehow being oppressed by the "Man" while typing on the internet, let alone NS.
To come under the RICO law you first have to be established as organized crime member or suspected. Under the Patriot Act, they don't even need probable cause , nothing, nadda, they can just come search your home without reason. Also without going to a judge. Even under RICO they have to go to a judge first to put you under RICO in the first place. They compare it to RICO in some respects it is like RICO (if you were a suspected gangster) and in many respects it's nothing like RICO. RICO in many ways is just an open warrant, but they still have to go to a judge to get it. Under RICO you can't be held without being given a lawyer and you do get your day in court. So, no, RICO is not the same as the Patriot Act.
Incertonia
19-09-2004, 17:10
That's stupid. I don't know about the desertion of his division, but McCain went through hell as a POW. I didn't think even Bush and his supporters would stoop so low as to throw around such accusations after all he went through over there.
It was a set of attacks by a piece of shit named Ted Sampley--they included whispers that McCain had become a Manchurian Candidate of sorts while a POW, brainwashed by the North Vietnamese. Then of course there was the push-polling in South Carolina where voters were basically told that McCain had fathered a black child out of wedlock--he and his wife had adopted a Bangladeshi girl.
If McCain had won the nomination in 2000, I'd have voted for him even though he's more conservative on social issues than I prefer, because he's a standup guy and he's a bipartisan. He'd probably be cruising to reelection right now, and I guarantee you we wouldn't be stuck in Iraq right now.
But if he runs in 2004, he doesn't have my vote, and I'll tell you why. Every time I see him politicking for Dubya, I get sick to my stomach. Every time I see him defend the horrid practices of this administration, I think to myself, "has he completely sold out for one more shot at the top job?" And I think he has--it's a sad thing to watch.