NationStates Jolt Archive

For the war conducted there from around 1962 - 1974?

Has France ever apologised?

If not, I say it's high time it did! These two western powers quite literally destroyed Vietnam. Then they fled when they couldn't beat the radical nationalists, the Viet Cong.

Surely France and America should apologise properly, and (maybe) pay reparations to Vietnam. Relations with the country would improve as well.



BTW, this has nothing to do with Kerry, Bush, or Swift Boat Veterans, so don't make this a presidential flamefest.

Please, would ANY country apologize to another?

While it would be nice if we could all apologize of our own free will, pushing groups for one will only make everbody angrier, or so that's what it seems.

Please, would ANY country apologize to another?
Germany, 1918.

Germany, 1918.

Was that of their own free will? The Treaty of Versailles seems like it was about retribution more than anything, and the "apology" was probably forced to rub in the humiliation.

I could be wrong here; I'm just making that up and believing it. ;-)

Was that of their own free will? The Treaty of Versailles seems like it was about retribution more than anything, and the "apology" was probably forced to rub in the humiliation.

I could be wrong here; I'm just making that up and believing it. ;-)



No, you are correct. Germany never started World War 1, they were just a convenient scapegoat. And that scapegoating and forced war reparations fees on the Germans led to World War 2.

Was that of their own free will? The Treaty of Versailles seems like it was about retribution more than anything, and the "apology" was probably forced to rub in the humiliation.
Yes, it was a forced apology.

As for reparations, the problem was not that reparations are bad thing. The problem was that Germany couldn't afford them. The USA and France can.

So, reparations for Vietnam? I say yes.

Ok, I have a question: Why should we apologize? All we did was help the south vietnimese defend themselves. If it wouldn't have been for politicians and the media sabatoging the war in Vietnam than we would've been sucessful.

Ok, I have a question: Why should we apologize? All we did was help the south vietnimese defend themselves. If it wouldn't have been for politicians and the media sabatoging the war in Vietnam than we would've been sucessful.

Exactly. The Chinese and Russians funded and equipped the North Vietnamese. The US and their allies answered the cry for help from the South Vietnamese to stop the push of Communism from the north.

If the US and France should apologise (which I do not think they should) then why not the Chinese and Russians too?

No, we are Americans we owe nothing to anyone.

are you kidding??
we dont even TALK to vietnam
we are still pissed at them for winning

No, we are Americans we owe nothing to anyone.
Heil Bush. Amen.

America must not only apologize to Veitnam but to the entire third world and cuba too-and Bush/Cheney should apologize to every living organism in the universe just for being born

Ok, I have a question: Why should we apologize? All we did was help the south vietnimese defend themselves. If it wouldn't have been for politicians and the media sabatoging the war in Vietnam than we would've been sucessful.
If we hadn't interfered in political affairs that were none of our business in the first place, Ho Chi Minh would have been democratically elected as the leader of Vietnam, and there never would have been a North/South Vietnam. At least, that's the way I understand it.

America must not only apologize to Veitnam but to the entire third world and cuba too-and Bush/Cheney should apologize to every living organism in the universe just for being born

(smirk) You don't think that is letting them off too lightly?

(smirk) You don't think that is letting them off too lightly?




They should be charged with Treason.

(smirk) You don't think that is letting them off too lightly?
well if Bush/Cheney were true patriots theyd repent for all their crimes by committing suicide on national TV

If we hadn't interfered in political affairs that were none of our business in the first place, Ho Chi Minh would have been democratically elected as the leader of Vietnam, and there never would have been a North/South Vietnam. At least, that's the way I understand it.

Actually, North and South Vietnam existed before the Vietnam war and were created after the Vietnamese fought against colonial France. The peace agreement from the end of the colonial war divided Vietnam in two. The North were communists, the South anti-communist.

The unification elections scheduled for 1956 never went ahead as the South did not want to come under communist rule.

The rest is history.

The unification elections scheduled for 1956 never went ahead as the South did not want to come under communist rule.
Really? It was always my understanding that the U.S. pulled the strings to stop the election, because Ho Chi Minh was so popular among the Vietnamese (he had, after all, been fighting for independence from France for decades).

Really? It was always my understanding that the U.S. pulled the strings to stop the election, because Ho Chi Minh was so popular among the Vietnamese (he had, after all, been fighting for independence from France for decades).

I dunno about the rest, but you're right about him being quite popular.

You know, what really didn't help was the fact that, in order to fight communism, we were supporting a corrupt fool who got in charge of S. Vietnam. That, you know, really didn't do much good.

Really? It was always my understanding that the U.S. pulled the strings to stop the election, because Ho Chi Minh was so popular among the Vietnamese (he had, after all, been fighting for independence from France for decades).

The South Vietnamese had US backing, the North Vietnamese had Chinese and Soviet backing. There was more than one nation pulling strings in Vietnam at the time.
It is not unusual for people with differing views to unite against a common enemy, in this case French colonial rule. Once the peace accord was drafted following the colonial war the two parts of Vietnam then had to face their differences. Obviously, as this was during the Cold War, there were external influences involved as the Communist North wanted to take control of the South and the South did not want to come under communist rule. Throw in the US and China and Russia and then you have the mess that eventuated.

Ok, I have a question: Why should we apologize? All we did was help the south vietnimese defend themselves. If it wouldn't have been for politicians and the media sabatoging the war in Vietnam than we would've been sucessful.


ok first off. vietnam wasnt a war. it was a conflict. it didnt have the support of congress. well what does that mean? it means that we could not do what we needed to win. President Kennedy started the war, but the republicans were skeptical of the war. knowing that if he brought the issue to congress to declare the war, he would have to face scrutiny from the republicans. So they kept it a conflict. This also means that there is a kill cap, where if you kill so many men a day, you cant kill anymore.

example. lets pretend the daily killing limit is 25 a day. and because of a big battle you kill 75 in one day. that means for the next 2 days you cant kill anyone. well the VC did not have such rules and killed as many as they pleased. the same went for a ground cap. they could only advance on so much land per time allotment. We could have won the vietnam war IF it was a war. And appoligy is a sign of weakness. No politician or government ever appologizes unless forced. Fighting war with rules of a simple conflict is like firing a gun with the safety on.

For the war conducted there from around 1962 - 1974?

Has France ever apologised?

If not, I say it's high time it did! These two western powers quite literally destroyed Vietnam. Then they fled when they couldn't beat the radical nationalists, the Viet Cong.

Surely France and America should apologise properly, and (maybe) pay reparations to Vietnam. Relations with the country would improve as well.



BTW, this has nothing to do with Kerry, Bush, or Swift Boat Veterans, so don't make this a presidential flamefest.

"Couldn't beat" is inaccurate. "Were'nt allowed to beat," is more like it. It was the unanimous opinion of all the top U.S. military leaders that the war could have been won in, at most, six weeks, if they had been allowed to do the following:

1.Invade North Vietnam
2.Mine Haiphong Harbor
3.Pursue the enemy into Laos and Cambodia
4.Destroy every strategic military target
5.Bomb Hanoi
6.Etc.

Here are some of the rules our men had to follow:

1.The enemy cannot be chased if they flee into Laos, Cambodia, or North Vietnam
2.Mining Haiphong was a no-no
3.Over 70% of the targets the Joint Chiefs of Staffs wanted to bomb were off-limits
4.Troops could not fire until fired upon (provided the enemy missed...)
5.If a communist MiG was sitting on a runway, it could not be attacked; only when it was in the air, had been clearly identified, and showed 'hostile intent' could it be attacked
6.SAM missile sites could not be attacked while under construction, but only after they became operational
7.If trucks wandered more than 200 yards off the Ho Chi Minh trail, they were safe from bombing (one of the main reasons so many enemy trucks successfully reached the south)
8.Enemy ships delivering supplies to the North Vietnamese could not be attacked
9.Most factories, military bases, dams, power plants, etc. could not be bombed
I could go on all day, but I think you get the picture

Also, why should we apologize? Who started the war?

Moreover, the Viet Cong were not 'nationalists.' Read about some of the (literally hundreds of thousands) of atrocities they committed, and you'll come to the same conclusion.

Really? It was always my understanding that the U.S. pulled the strings to stop the election, because Ho Chi Minh was so popular among the Vietnamese (he had, after all, been fighting for independence from France for decades).

Diem wouldn't have allowed the elections anyway. also, Ho was far from popular in the south. After all, when Vietnam was partitioned along the 17th parallel in 1954, almost a million refugees fled south.

Also, not just the U.S. and South Vietnam fought. South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, and the Philippines all sent troops. Rhodesia and Taiwan offered to. All the afore-mentioned nations (except Rhodesia) sent military advisors. Malaysia trained thousands of ARVN and South Vietnamese police. Spain sent uniformed personnel to Vietnam. 40 nations provided financial or other aid.

Don't know about France, but it seems like America is largely forgiven by the Vietnamese. In Hanoi, for example, thousands of street names commemerate past wars with China, but only about a dozen mention France, and two mention the US, with one being renamed last year. I read this from a National Geographic article, and as the locals say, the US intervention was just a blip in their history. Why be bitter towards the US? Besides, China attacked far more.

Even though Vietnam's government still hates our guts (and is holding many of our prisoners), its people for the most part like and forgive us.

Vietnam was a civil war that America, the USSR and China should have stayed out of.

The US should apologise because it played the largest part in the killing of around 3 million Vietnamese people and thousands of Cambodians. Its Agent Orange caused mass terror, death and destruction. Its napalm bombs wiped out vast areas of jungle. The American military machine struck so many blows at the Vietnaese landscape and people. It's no exaggeration to say that the US was killing Vietnam.

The French were the ones who started it all. They fought a futile war for twenty years against nationalists.

The punishment taken by Vietnam in the 20th century was shocking. They don't even deserve an apology, you say?

well if Bush/Cheney were true patriots theyd repent for all their crimes by committing suicide on national TV

Dude, you made me laugh out loud!

I think both sides should apologize, not just one or the other. Then, we should bury the hatchet and work for a better future.

And what about the millions of people Ho Chi Minh, the Viet Cong, etc. killed?

And what about the millions of people Ho Chi Minh, the Viet Cong, etc. killed?

Don't let facts get in the way of another US-bash. ;)

Don't let facts get in the way of another US-bash. ;)

I'm serious, though.

I think the internet should stfu and rtfm when it comes to military/political history. OMG, a 14 year old soon-to-be-dropout has discovered the key to world peace!

JAPAN SHOULD APOLOGIZE FOR PEARL HARBOR!
They did.
WELL THEN THE US SHOULD APOLOGIZE FOR THE NUKES!
rolleyes
BUSH AND CHENEY RUINED THE WORLD!
Alt-F4

ok first off. vietnam wasnt a war. it was a conflict. it didnt have the support of congress. well what does that mean? it means that we could not do what we needed to win. President Kennedy started the war, but the republicans were skeptical of the war. knowing that if he brought the issue to congress to declare the war, he would have to face scrutiny from the republicans. So they kept it a conflict. This also means that there is a kill cap, where if you kill so many men a day, you cant kill anymore.

example. lets pretend the daily killing limit is 25 a day. and because of a big battle you kill 75 in one day. that means for the next 2 days you cant kill anyone. well the VC did not have such rules and killed as many as they pleased. the same went for a ground cap. they could only advance on so much land per time allotment. We could have won the vietnam war IF it was a war. And appoligy is a sign of weakness. No politician or government ever appologizes unless forced. Fighting war with rules of a simple conflict is like firing a gun with the safety on.
where did you get THAT information??
the only thing there that i found to be TRUE is that it was a conflict and not a war.
didnt eisenhower send "advisors" to vietnam? (not to say that the dems didnt expand it into the war it turned out to be)

where did you get THAT information??
the only thing there that i found to be TRUE is that it was a conflict and not a war.
didnt eisenhower send "advisors" to vietnam? (not to say that the dems didnt expand it into the war it turned out to be)

Yes. Ike sent advisors. The first advisors were sent in '57 or '58, I'm not sure which year. Want me to look it up?

Even though Vietnam's government still hates our guts (and is holding many of our prisoners), its people for the most part like and forgive us.
There have been several panels that have gone into Vietnam, and they've all concluded that Vietnam no longer has American prisoners.

There have been several panels that have gone into Vietnam, and they've all concluded that Vietnam no longer has American prisoners.

Yes, they do. Several books have been written on the subject. And many "live sightings," were, according to eyewitnesses, never returned.

Yes, they do. Several books have been written on the subject. And many "live sightings," were, according to eyewitnesses, never returned.
I know that John McCain, who was a POW himself, spearheaded a congressional investigation into the matter. I'm sure that the sightings of US prisoners today are akin to Bigfoot sightings. Besides, I'd think the prisoners would be dead by now.

I know that John McCain, who was a POW himself, spearheaded a congressional investigation into the matter. I'm sure that the sightings of US prisoners today are akin to Bigfoot sightings. Besides, I'd think the prisoners would be dead by now.

Many of them probably are dead, but many of them are alive and (un)well.

I'm serious, though.

I know you are and I agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately some people are so intent on demonising the US whenever they can that they are not interested in anything that deviates from that line.

I know you are and I agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately some people are so intent on demonising the US whenever they can that they are not interested in anything that deviates from that line.

I know. All because of our @#$^!@!&*$#%#!@*!#$^!@#!^#%*#(@ President! :headbang:

Many of them probably are dead, but many of them are alive and (un)well.
But they probably don't exist. If they do, they are in the same place that Iraq stockpiled their WMDs.

But they probably don't exist. If they do, they are in the same place that Iraq stockpiled their WMDs.

Vietnam never returned all our POWs. And they didn't just magically disappear.

Vietnam never returned all our POWs. And they didn't just magically disappear.

they didnt magically disappear but they probably all died due to brutal treatment

I think both sides should apologize, not just one or the other. Then, we should bury the hatchet and work for a better future.
I agree--bury the hatchet in a republican liars forehead for peace

And what about the millions of people Ho Chi Minh, the Viet Cong, etc. killed?
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I like the Vietcong or the murderous psycho-tyrant Ho Chi Minh. "Nationalists" is not necessarily a compliment, especially when preceded by "radical".

I suppose that it would be a good idea for both sides to apologise. I just didn't think of the Vietcong imediately. They weren't the ones who invaded America and committed genocide against Americans. (The Vietcong committed genocide against other Vietnamese.) I hope you can understand why they didn't spring to mind immediately.

I agree--bury the hatchet in a republican liars forehead for peace
The Democrats actually have a much larger river of blood than the Republicans.

Unfortunately some people are so intent on demonising the US whenever they can that they are not interested in anything that deviates from that line.
What, so criticising the foreign policy of the US governent is the same as hating and bashing America?

I also criticised France, the USSR and China.

Well its a fully commuinist country now thanks to the U.S.A. bailing out on the south. So I don't think america could apoligise, well maybe to the south for not protecting it properly.

Well its a fully commuinist country now thanks to the U.S.A. bailing out on the south. So I don't think america could apoligise, well maybe to the south for not protecting it properly.
It's not America's job to protect other countries. If communism spread in Vietnam then maybe that was meant to be that way. If its a bad government system, the people have the option of revolt. If they want democracy, they can make it happen with civil war :)

Government systems sometimes need to be overthrown - and usually those in power will not agree with the people.

All the Communists countries in the world were established because of the U.S.'s failure to contain them. The U.S. hates every Communist country in the world.

Ah well, the old Aesop's Fable, that the grapes the fox could not get to had to be sour.

Reason why America in the first place of going to Vietnam was cause of the Soviet Union and the Cold War. America though if communims "spread" to Vietnam it would be another victory for the Soviets. The part about all those rules and kill limits are only the Americans fault. It was a political game. They coudnt make it a war cause the Americans didnt want it to be war. Also the USA always thinks they can just come swoop to victory just like the Soviets though. This incluedes Iraq.

The U.S.A didn't have to "help" the South Vietnamese but it choose to and failed. America broke a promise to the South Vietnamese people and should apologise.

!. After The North Vietnamese government and Viet Cong
won the war, over 2 million Vietnamese boat people
escaping the Vietnamese communist paradise,
and re-education camps.

Re-Education Camps. I would not want to be sent to a Re-Education
camp for my political, economic and social views, and I dont think other
people would too.

I work with a Vietnamese American lady, she says
what I like about America the best is the freedom
in my nation there is no freedom, and in America we
are all Americans, in Vietnam if you are Vietnamese
you are Vietnamese and if you are Chinese that is
what you are.

I would not like to live with President Fidel Castro for life,
like people who dont like Bush would not want to live with
President Bush for life.

President Fidel Castro is not a President, He is a Dictador for life.

If we hadn't interfered in political affairs that were none of our business in the first place, Ho Chi Minh would have been democratically elected as the leader of Vietnam, and there never would have been a North/South Vietnam. At least, that's the way I understand it.

To become a dictator on par with Saddam - who was also "democratically elected" (which is basically what he did anyways, as I understand it).

Apparently, all of you saying that America should not apologize have never read "The Pentagon Papers" may I suggest you do. Then you will see that America owes Vietnam quite a bit. As well as every American kid they sent over there.

ok first off. vietnam wasnt a war. it was a conflict. it didnt have the support of congress. well what does that mean? it means that we could not do what we needed to win. President Kennedy started the war, but the republicans were skeptical of the war.

Actually, President Kennedy originally sent troops in to help the French (our allies). He was looking for a way out when he died. It was Johnson who really committed full-fledged to stay in there and fight it out - "fighting for the hearts and minds of a nation" (sound familiar?).

You and I would not be able to expres
our economic, political and social views
to each other or anyone else if we where
citizens of Communist Vietnam or Cuba.

In Cuba we are not allowed to have home computers,
cable service, or satle lite tv. No web site like Nation States,
that is the point .

Nations States of Nation States open your eyes
to the Cuban dictadorship.

Call it a dictadorship and treated like one.

I know. All because of our @#$^!@!&*$#%#!@*!#$^!@#!^#%*#(@ President! :headbang:
That statement would make sense if not for the fact that there has always been anti-American sentiment.

Anyway, MKULTRA, please get off the violence. How about more stories of how George W. is secretly killing all the kittens in the world? Those are pretty funny, violent hate is about as amusing as being kicked in the groin.

I would not like to live with President Fidel Castro for life,
like people who dont like Bush would not want to live with
President Bush for life.

President Fidel Castro is not a President, He is a Dictador for life.
But on the list of world Dictators hes the nicest one

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I like the Vietcong or the murderous psycho-tyrant Ho Chi Minh. "Nationalists" is not necessarily a compliment, especially when preceded by "radical".

I suppose that it would be a good idea for both sides to apologise. I just didn't think of the Vietcong imediately. They weren't the ones who invaded America and committed genocide against Americans. (The Vietcong committed genocide against other Vietnamese.) I hope you can understand why they didn't spring to mind immediately.


The Democrats actually have a much larger river of blood than the Republicans.
I find that hard to believe

Would like to be a citizen of Cuba, where.
1. Where it would receive free education.
2. Where it would receive free medical care.
3. Where it would do cumpulsory voluntary work to pay for it.
4. Where it would not be allowed to have a home computer.
5. Where it would not be allowed to express its views.
6. Where it would be watched over by neighborhood commitees
for the defense of the revolution.
7. Where it would drive a bycle instead of a car.
8. Where it would use public transportation, a bus,
Cubans call the pill, you take one every 4 hours.
9. I could go on and on, but the list is to long.

I got nothing against Mkultra for expressing its views,
as long as we can express them toghether.
My Nation Santa- Nita s Political freedoms
World Benchmark, I am proud of that.

Please, would ANY country apologize to another?

Germany apologized to the Jews/Israel for the Holocaust.

are you kidding??
we dont even TALK to vietnam
we are still pissed at them for winning

WRONG!! The US does have diplomatic relations with Vietnam. Look it up here: http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vm.html#Govt scroll down a bit

America must not only apologize to Veitnam but to the entire third world and cuba too-and Bush/Cheney should apologize to every living organism in the universe just for being born

You're my new best friend.

I think that it would be ludacris to think that a country like America or France would ever apologize to anyone in the state they are in at the moment! They both are to high up on their horses to care about anyone else... heres what i think about that... :gundge: :gundge: :gundge: :gundge: :gundge:

What, so criticising the foreign policy of the US governent is the same as hating and bashing America?
Yes, if you make an unbalanced critique of American foreign policy while ignoring that other nations... your intent was to make the US and France seem evil and solely responsible for the suffering during the Vietnam War. The only reasonable position in this matter is to realize that ALL the nations have done tremendous damage, and everyone should admit guilt and responsibility.

I also criticised France, the USSR and China.
That was only when other people forced you to abandon your untenable anti-American double standard... you originally only demanded that the US and France should apologize, and out of ignorance or just pure anti-Western, anti-Americanism you ignored the treachery and crimes of the other nations in the war.

If anything, our government should apologize to the Vietnam veterans for bringing them into that unwinnable war to begin with.

It was a waste of taxpayer money, and it was an unecessary loss of thousands of lives.

Would like to be a citizen of Cuba, where.
1. Where it would receive free education.
2. Where it would receive free medical care.
3. Where it would do cumpulsory voluntary work to pay for it.
4. Where it would not be allowed to have a home computer.
5. Where it would not be allowed to express its views.
6. Where it would be watched over by neighborhood commitees
for the defense of the revolution.
7. Where it would drive a bycle instead of a car.
8. Where it would use public transportation, a bus,
Cubans call the pill, you take one every 4 hours.
9. I could go on and on, but the list is to long.

I got nothing against Mkultra for expressing its views,
as long as we can express them toghether.
My Nation Santa- Nita s Political freedoms
World Benchmark, I am proud of that.Castro tried to be nice to America at first but the American govt tried to kill him a million times then forced him into the Soveit realm and made him go bad

Germany apologized to the Jews/Israel for the Holocaust.



WRONG!! The US does have diplomatic relations with Vietnam. Look it up here: http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vm.html#Govt scroll down a bit



You're my new best friend.
^5

If anything, our government should apologize to the Vietnam veterans for bringing them into that unwinnable war to begin with.

It was a waste of taxpayer money, and it was an unecessary loss of thousands of lives.
Bush started a new Veitnam in Iraq and he wants four more too. We're also losing the war in Iraq because it was based on lies--same reason why we lost in nam-America cannot win a war with a divisive scumbag in the White House

Bush started a new Veitnam in Iraq and he wants four more too. We're also losing the war in Iraq because it was based on lies--same reason why we lost in nam-America cannot win a war with a divisive scumbag in the White House

I couldn't agree more. :mad:

If anything, our government should apologize to the Vietnam veterans for bringing them into that unwinnable war to begin with.

It was a waste of taxpayer money, and it was an unecessary loss of thousands of lives.

Bush started a new Veitnam in Iraq and he wants four more too. We're also losing the war in Iraq because it was based on lies--same reason why we lost in nam-America cannot win a war with a divisive scumbag in the White House

Yes and yes

I couldn't agree more. :mad:
Bush makes America the Evil Empire--and I say that as a person who loves my country :mad:

The government shouldn't be apologizing to Vietnam, it was only defending its ally. Instead the government should be apologizing to the American people! The government's responsibility is Americans first, allies second, and it totally failed in that respect.

Yes and yes
Bushs college professor was quoted as saying that Bush always supported the Veitnam war just as long as someone else fought it. This is the kind of coward we have starting Armaggedon in the mideast now-Bush is the Whore Of Babylon

Bushs college professor was quoted as saying that Bush always supported the Veitnam war just as long as someone else fought it. This is the kind of coward we have starting Armaggedon in the mideast now-Bush is the Whore Of Babylon
The Whore of Riyadh you mean

The Whore of Riyadh you mean
Riyadh the Bush :)

Castro can be a nice guy now if he wants to,
America or no America, is Castro a nice guy now
to his own people with all the facts I have mentioned.

Why dosent Castro release all political prisoners withing
Cuba and not exile them,
Why dosent Castro allow democratic elections of diffrent
political partys.

President Bush has stated that he would establish
full economic, political and social relations with Cuba,
if Castro releases all political prisoners, allows democratic
elections and allows the Cuban people economic and
social freedoms, I as a Cuban would support that.

Castro dosent need the USA aproval to be a nice guy,
he is not a nice guy because he is a dictador for life,
thats what he wants to be, bottom line.

How much longer do we have to plead with the world.

Castro can be a nice guy now if he wants to,
America or no America, is Castro a nice guy now
to his own people with all the facts I have mentioned.

Why dosent Castro release all political prisoners withing
Cuba and not exile them,
Why dosent Castro allow democratic elections of diffrent
political partys.

President Bush has stated that he would establish
full economic, political and social relations with Cuba,
if Castro releases all political prisoners, allows democratic
elections and allows the Cuban people economic and
social freedoms, I as a Cuban would support that.

Castro dosent need the USA aproval to be a nice guy,
he is not a nice guy because he is a dictador for life,
thats what he wants to be, bottom line.

How much longer do we have to plead with the world.
your right we do need to get rid of Castro/Bush--the world shouldnt be a safe haven for Dictators

When will Mongolia apologize for it's war-crimes..?

When will Rome..?

When will the Sioux Nation to it's lesser cousins..?

When will the Chiuachi apologize to the Atlinpik..?

When will the lion apologize to the gazelle..?

When....?!

Bush started a new Veitnam in Iraq and he wants four more too. We're also losing the war in Iraq because it was based on lies--same reason why we lost in nam-America cannot win a war with a divisive scumbag in the White House
Dont say we are losing Iraq yet. I know more than enough military personnel from all 4 main branches. its getting bad but i wouldnt say we are losing. they certainly dont think so.

The Democrats actually have a much larger river of blood than the Republicans.

seeing as how Abraham Lincoln was a republican and the American Civil war has cost more Americans than all other wars and conflicts that we have been in combined. Gettysburg alone had as many dead as Vietnam.

When will the lion apologize to the gazelle..?
haha

If they should, they should apologise to all the men they forced to go over there too.

New Zealand apologised to Samoa for their piss-poor effort when Samoa was a New Zealand colony (we took it from germany in 1914 without a shot being fired) but that apology wouldn't have been noticed overseas like America saying anything would.

America must not only apologize to Veitnam but to the entire third world and cuba too-and Bush/Cheney should apologize to every living organism in the universe just for being born

Hmmm, yes, MAYBE WE SHOULD APOLOGISE TO THE TERRORISTS WHO BLEW UP THE TWIN TOWERS! I'm sorry but there are some people out there that are so wimpy, they're not willing to fight for anything. How can you have a problem with Bush? All hes done is defend this country. And yes, I know he used the military to do that, but here's a revelation: thats what the military is for.
Our involvment in Vietnam wasn't wrong, we should fight communists wherever they pop up. If another free nation asks us for help to defend their freedom than we should do it. And when there is a threat brewing we must take it out before it becomes a threat. If a cop sees a guy going for his gun, should the cop wait for the guy to shoot at him, or should the cop shoot first? Of course he should shoot first.

When will Mongolia apologize for it's war-crimes..?

When will Rome..?

When will the Sioux Nation to it's lesser cousins..?

When will the Chiuachi apologize to the Atlinpik..?

When will the lion apologize to the gazelle..?

When....?!

I'd like to add every major country to that list and christians

For the war conducted there from around 1962 - 1974?

Has France ever apologised?

If not, I say it's high time it did! These two western powers quite literally destroyed Vietnam. Then they fled when they couldn't beat the radical nationalists, the Viet Cong.

Surely France and America should apologise properly, and (maybe) pay reparations to Vietnam. Relations with the country would improve as well.



BTW, this has nothing to do with Kerry, Bush, or Swift Boat Veterans, so don't make this a presidential flamefest.

I doubt they ever will. Well not for another three centuries atleast.
*Thinks back to that time Tony Blair apologised to the Americans on behalf of all of our ancestors*
Yeah. Probably not for another few centuries.

For the war conducted there from around 1962 - 1974?

Has France ever apologised?

If not, I say it's high time it did! These two western powers quite literally destroyed Vietnam. Then they fled when they couldn't beat the radical nationalists, the Viet Cong.

Surely France and America should apologise properly, and (maybe) pay reparations to Vietnam. Relations with the country would improve as well.

BTW, this has nothing to do with Kerry, Bush, or Swift Boat Veterans, so don't make this a presidential flamefest.

I was going to flame you for the way you stated this, but decided not to. First, it wouldn't change your mind, and second, your use of phraseology indicates that you have little of no knowledge of the Vietnam war. "Radical Nationalists" indeed! "Reparations?" Not while those of us who had to endure bullets there and spittle here are still alive!

Someone probably already stated this, but the thread was too long to search for the answer. Bill Clinton appeared before the North Vietnamese people and apologized for the United States behavior. Then President Clinton made several apologies throughout his term, one famous one being to African/Americans for the United States involvement in slavery.

.
WRONG!! The US does have diplomatic relations with Vietnam. Look it up here: http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vm.html#Govt scroll down a bit

well hush my mouth!
where was *I* in '95 when clinton normalized relations??

at the time i asked the husband and he said that he got HIS visa to go to vietnam last year when he was in thailand. who knew it was legal??

well hush my mouth!
where was *I* in '95 when clinton normalized relations??

at the time i asked the husband and he said that he got HIS visa to go to vietnam last year when he was in thailand. who knew it was legal??

Unless I miss my guess, Vietnam now has "most favored nation" status from the US for trade purposes. Someone please look this up.

No, we are Americans we owe nothing to anyone.


No you don't. What about the time when you attacked Iraq because you THOUGHT the had mass nuclear weapons. :confused: But they didn't. :eek:

Then you still indirectly support the Government who betrayed you. It wasn't the god damn VC and NVA's fault that LBJ escalated a War under a false pretense and supported dictatorships (brutal ones at that) in the South. And refused to allow free elections.

The other east Asian dictatorships we supported - South Korea and Taiwan - both became democratic in the 1980s and 1990s and today are nations with prosperous and free citizens. In the long run, the South Vietnam regime probably would have liberalized too had it survived past the Vietnam War. I'm not condoning the US-backed dictators in Saigon but as you can see, it becomes more difficult to unequivocally condemn as evil America's Asia policies when everything is taken in a long-term, historical perspective.

Did America even apoligise for the bombing of that WMD factory in the 90s that killed 100s of people? Which actually turned out to make aspirin?

I think the internet should stfu and rtfm when it comes to military/political history. OMG, a 14 year old soon-to-be-dropout has discovered the key to world peace!

JAPAN SHOULD APOLOGIZE FOR PEARL HARBOR!
They did.
WELL THEN THE US SHOULD APOLOGIZE FOR THE NUKES!
rolleyes
BUSH AND CHENEY RUINED THE WORLD!
Alt-F4

This post wins, thread over

Not all South Vietnamese leaders were 'dictators.' Diem was, definitely. Ky wasn't. Thieu's government was extremely unpopular, inefficient, had rampant corruption, and had little tolerance for political opposition, but it wasn't quite bad enough to be classified as a dictatorship.

Not all South Vietnamese leaders were 'dictators.' Diem was, definitely. Ky wasn't. Thieu's government was extremely unpopular, inefficient, had rampant corruption, and had little tolerance for political opposition, but it wasn't quite bad enough to be classified as a dictatorship.
Dictatorship is rule by officials who use official state apparatus to silence their political enemies. By that definition the US backed South Vietnamese strongmen should all be considered dictatorships. Benevolent to the common man or not, a dictator is a dictator. But it is totally possible that a successor government to Thieu may have turned out to be a transition from command dictatorship to capitalist democracy like Jiang Jing-guo in Taiwan or Park Chunghee in South Korea. If the US and South Vietnam had won the war, Vietnam may very well have evolved into an advanced capitalist democratic society like the far east Asian tiger economies did.

Dictatorship is rule by officials who use official state apparatus to silence their political enemies. By that definition the US backed South Vietnamese strongmen should all be considered dictatorships. Benevolent to the common man or not, a dictator is a dictator. But it is totally possible that a successor government to Thieu may have turned out to be a transition from command dictatorship to capitalist democracy like Jiang Jing-guo in Taiwan or Park Chunghee in South Korea.

Park was a dictator. He did wonders for the South Korean economy, and he certainly had his strong points, but he was also extremely repressive and brutal.

Park was a dictator. He did wonders for the South Korean economy, and he certainly had his strong points, but he was also extremely repressive and brutal.
Park in Korea and Jiang in Taiwan were both dictators in one-party states. But demand for political freedom developed alongside the economic freedoms these two leaders created and eventually forced democratic reforms upon their respective nations... within a few years after Park and Jiang multiparty democracy were firmly established in both Taiwan and Korea.

Park in Korea and Jiang in Taiwan were both dictators in one-party states. But demand for political freedom developed alongside the economic freedoms these two leaders created and eventually forced democratic reforms upon their respective nations... within a few years after Park and Jiang multiparty democracy were firmly established in both Taiwan and Korea.

I misunderstood you. I thought you meant those two introduced democratic reforms. My mistake.

Yeah sorry I didn't make my point clear. Anyways a similar transition regime in Saigon could very well have existed that brought Vietnam into modernity and eventually result in democracy. The east Asian confucian nations are all very similar in their societal habits and national outlook... it isn't hard to imagine the positive developments in Taiwan and Korea to have been repeated in Vietnam.