NationStates Jolt Archive

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By John Kerry, The Wall Street Journal

As I travel across this country, I meet store owners, stock traders, factory foremen and optimistic entrepreneurs. Their experiences may be different, but they all agree that America can do better under an administration that is better for business. Business leaders like Warren Buffett, Lee Iacocca and Robert Rubin are joining my campaign because they believe that American businesses will do better if we change our CEO.

Since January 2001, the economy has lost 1.6 million private-sector jobs. The typical family has seen its income fall more than $1,500, while health costs are up more than $3,500.

Today, American companies are investing less and exporting less than they were in 2000 - the first time investment and exports have been down during any presidential term in over 70 years. At the same time, our trade deficit has grown to more than 5% of the economy for the first time ever, a troublesome and unsustainable development.



The economy still has not turned the corner. Over the last year, real wages are still down and even the jobs created in the past 12 months represent the worst job performance for this period of a recovery in over 50 years. Indeed, the total of 1.7 million jobs created over the last year is weaker than even the worst year of job creation under President Clinton, and below what is needed just to find jobs for new applicants entering the work force.

Forty-three months into his presidency, George Bush's main explanation for this dismal economic record is an assortment of blame and excuses. Yet what President Bush cannot explain is how the last 11 presidents before him - Democrats and Republicans - faced wars, recessions and international crises, and yet only he has presided over lost jobs, declining real exports, and the swing from a $5.6 trillion surplus to trillions of dollars of deficits.

While the private sector will always be America's engine for innovation and job creation, President Bush has failed to take any responsibility for missing opportunities to strengthen the conditions for investment, economic confidence and job creation.

When the economy needed short-run stimulus without increasing the long-run deficit, President Bush got it backwards, passing an initial round of tax cuts that Economy.com found had no effect in lifting us out of recession. He then passed more deficit-increasing tax cuts that Goldman Sachs described as "especially ineffective as a stimulative measure." When small businesses and families needed relief from skyrocketing health-care and energy costs, he chose sweetheart deals for special interests over serious plans to reduce costs and help spur new job creation.

With the right choices on the economy, America can do better. American businesses and workers are the most resilient, productive and innovative in the world. And they deserve policies that are better for our economy. My economic plan will do the following: (1) Create good jobs, (2) cut middle-class taxes and health-care costs, (3) restore America's competitive edge, and (4) cut the deficit and restore economic confidence.


Create good jobs. I strongly believe that America must engage in the global economy, and I voted for trade opening from Nafta to the WTO. But at the same time, I have always believed that we need to fight for a level playing field for America's workers.

I am not trying to stop all outsourcing, but as president, I will end every single incentive that encourages companies to outsource. Today, taxpayers spend $12 billion a year to subsidize the export of jobs. If a company is trying to choose between building a factory in Michigan or Malaysia, our tax code actually encourages it to locate in Asia.

My plan would take the entire $12 billion we save from closing these loopholes each year and use it to cut corporate tax rates by 5%. This will provide a tax cut for 99% of taxpaying corporations. This would be the most sweeping reform and simplification of international taxation in over 40 years. In addition, I have proposed a two-year new jobs tax credit to encourage manufacturers, other businesses affected by outsourcing, and small businesses that created jobs.

American businesses are the most competitive in the world, yet when it comes to enforcing trade agreements the Bush administration refuses to show our competitors that we mean business. They have brought only one WTO case for every three brought by the Clinton administration, while cutting trade enforcement budgets and failing to stand up to China's illegal currency manipulation. That not only costs jobs, it threatens to erode support for open markets and a growing global economy.


Cut middle-class taxes and health costs. Families are being increasingly squeezed by falling incomes and rising costs for everything from health care to college. But spiraling health-care and energy costs squeeze businesses too, encouraging them to lay off workers and shift to part-time and temporary workers.

Under my plan, the tax cuts would be extended and made permanent for 98% of Americans. In addition, I support new tax cuts for college, child care and health care - in total, more than twice as large as the new tax cuts President Bush is proposing.

I have proposed a health plan that would increase coverage while cutting costs. It builds on and strengthens the current system, giving patients their choice of doctors, and providing new incentives instead of imposing new mandates.

My health plan will offer businesses immediate relief on their premiums. By providing employers some relief on catastrophic costs that are driving up premiums for everyone, we will save employers and workers about 10% of total health premiums.

Our hospitals and doctors have the best technology for saving lives, but often still rely on pencil and paper when it comes to tracking medical tests and billing. As a result, we spend over $350 billion a year on red tape, not to mention the cost of performing duplicative or redundant tests. My plan will modernize our information technology, create private electronic medical records, and create incentives for the adoption of the latest disease management.

And I won't be afraid to take on prescription drug or medical malpractice costs. We will make it easier for generic drugs to come to market and allow the safe importation of pharmaceuticals from countries like Canada. Finally, we will require medical malpractice plaintiffs to try nonbinding mediation, oppose unjustified punitive damage awards and penalize lawyers who file frivolous suits with a tough "three strikes and you're out" rule.

This plan will make our businesses more competitive by making our health care more affordable.


Restore America's competitive edge. America has fallen to 10th in the world in broadband technology. Some of our best scientists are being encouraged to work overseas because of the restrictions on federal funding for stem-cell research. President Bush has proposed cutting 21 of the 24 research areas that are so critical to long-term growth. We need to invest in research because when we shortchange research we shortchange our future.

My plan would invest in basic research and end the ban on stem-cell research. It would invest more in energy research, including clean coal, hydrogen and other alternative fuels. It would boost funding at the National Science Foundation and continue increases at the National Institutes of Health and other government research labs. It will provide tax credits to help jumpstart broadband in rural areas and the new higher-speed broadband that has the potential to transform everything from e-government to tele-medicine. I would promote private-sector innovation policies, including the elimination of capital gains for long-term investments in small business start-ups.

To ensure we have the workers to compete in an innovation economy, we need more young people to not only enter but complete college, we need more young women and minorities to enter the fields of math and science, and we need to make it easier for working parents to get the lifelong learning opportunities they need to excel at both their current and their future jobs.


Cut the deficit and restore economic confidence. When President Bush was in New York for the Republican convention, he did not even pay lip service to reducing the deficit. His record makes even Republicans wary. From missions to Mars to a pricey Medicare bill, President Bush has proposed or passed more than $6 trillion in initiatives without paying for any of them. The record is clear: A deficit reduction promise from George W. Bush is not exactly a gilt-edged bond.

Americans can trust my promise to cut the deficit because my record backs up my word. When I first joined the Senate, I broke with my own party to support the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings deficit reduction plan, which President Reagan signed into law. In 1993, I cast a deciding vote to bring the deficit under control. And in 1997, I supported the bipartisan balanced budget agreement.

I will restore fiscal discipline and cut the deficit in half in four years. First, by imposing caps, so that discretionary spending - outside of security and education - does not grow faster than inflation. If Congress cannot control spending, it will automatically be cut across the board. Second, I will reinstitute the "pay as you go" rule, which requires that no one propose or pass a new program without a way to pay for it. Third, I will ask for Congress to grant me a constitutionally acceptable version of line-item veto power and to establish a commission to eliminate corporate welfare like the one John McCain and I have fought for.

I am not waiting for next year to change the tone on fiscal discipline. Every day on the campaign trail, I explain how I pay for all my proposals. By rolling back the recent Bush tax cuts for families making over $200,000 per year, we can pay for health care and education. By cutting subsidies to banks that make student loans and restoring the principle that "polluters pay," we can afford to invest in national service and new energy technologies. My new rules won't just apply to programs I don't like; they will apply to my own priorities as well.

Cleaning up President Bush's fiscal mess will not be easy, but to ensure a strong and sustainable economic future we have to make the tough choices to move America's growing deficits back in the right direction.

On Nov. 2 we will have a national shareholders meeting. On the ballot will be the choice to continue with President Bush's policies or return to the fiscal sanity and pro-growth polices that proved so successful in the 1990s. You will choose.

I hope this will end the right-wing whining about, "yeah, but what is Kerry gonna do?"

Now the Republicans have something to whine about that they haven't milked to death yet - Kerry's platform and how it's going to send America on a one-way highway to hell in a handbasket. :rolleyes:

All I hear is blah blah, then you dissing us Republicans, I have one thing to say to you... :upyours:

Now the Republicans have something to whine about that they haven't milked to death yet - Kerry's platform and how it's going to send America on a one-way highway to hell in a handbasket. :rolleyes:

I notice the handbasket has a sticker on it that says: Made by the Bush Administration.

All I hear is blah blah, then you dissing us Republicans, I have one thing to say to you... :upyours:
I never dissed Republicans! I was just saying that they now have something new to complain about in relation to the Kerry/Edwards' campaign.

I notice the handbasket has a sticker on it that says: Made by the Bush Administration.
-giggle- I never noticed that! :D thanks for pointing it! ;) good call!

All I hear is blah blah, then you dissing us Republicans, I have one thing to say to you... :upyours:

I feel no need to apologize for your lack of comprehension skills.

Read it, I think it's extremely well put. If all you see is blah blah blah, then you prove that you prefer ignorance to enlightenment, and you therefore render moot all your arguments for evermore.

All I hear is blah blah, then you dissing us Republicans, I have one thing to say to you... :upyours:

I can say the same thing back to you...but that wouldn't be helpful, would it?

Crap, how do I comment on THIS? I'll...play the victim! That's it! Even though they didn't attack me, I'll play the victim! Yeah, UP YOURS, you..victim..izers!

:D

I can say the same thing back to you...but that wouldn't be helpful, would it?
No, it would be you sinking to their level...and no one can bend over that far ;) without fear of falling into that spirally purgatorial abyss.

Hell, I even went to the trouble to highlight some points I thought were especially astute. If you can't even be bothered to skim the text, then I have serious doubts as to your ability to make rational judgements.

Argue against the points, make some points of your own, but don't dismiss it as some kind of political white noise, otherwise you expose yourself as a puppet.

My only question is this:
Do we HAVE to have a president? I'd wish they all were dead or at the very least out of power. Hooray, in November I choose for moron A over moron B. Just my luck. I think I should just start preparing to move to Amsterdam.

"Puppet reporting for duty, Sir."

He is a fucking politician you idiots. I'm surprised he didn't promise to give a blow job to every woman over 80, and while he was at it, let Thersa Hindz give a blowjob to every 20ish male out there. Oh wait, she already is!

I judge the moron by his last 19 years in office, not by what he can spew out of his cum sucking mouth during an election year.

Crawl out from under your rock you morons.

All I hear is blah blah, then you dissing us Republicans, I have one thing to say to you... :upyours:

So since you cannot argue with the facts you resort to insults. You are a true Republican!

My only question is this:
Do we HAVE to have a president? I'd wish they all were dead or at the very least out of power. Hooray, in November I choose for moron A over moron B. Just my luck. I think I should just start preparing to move to Amsterdam.

Why is it everyone who promises to move never leaves?

Get the fuck out, it's a free country and the door is open!

let Thersa Hindz give a blowjob to every 20ish male out there. Oh wait, she already is!

I would like to see your sources for this accusation...because...I'd like one too, if it's not a problem. ;)

"Puppet reporting for duty, Sir."

He is a fucking politician you idiots. I'm surprised he didn't promise to give a blow job to every woman over 80, and while he was at it, let Thersa Hindz give a blowjob to every 20ish male out there. Oh wait, she already is!

I judge the moron by his last 19 years in office, not by what he can spew out of his cum sucking mouth during an election year.

Crawl out from under your rock you morons.

What happened to the Perrien who actually made valid points without frothing at the mouth. I saw it for an hour or two last night, but you have reverted to raving lunacy. Is it all for show or something?

Judge the moron Bush for the last 4 years then. I also judge Kerry by the last 19 years, and I see one of the Senators who has been most active in halting corruption and fiscal irresponsibility.

"Puppet reporting for duty, Sir."

He is a fucking politician you idiots. I'm surprised he didn't promise to give a blow job to every woman over 80, and while he was at it, let Thersa Hindz give a blowjob to every 20ish male out there. Oh wait, she already is!

I judge the moron by his last 19 years in office, not by what he can spew out of his cum sucking mouth during an election year.

Crawl out from under your rock you morons.
You are a shining example of "Republicans"? :eek:

There is no point. Several times on this forum I have seen people asking why they have no idea what kerry's policies are, and therefore you should all vote for bush. Someone always comes along with links to easy to find websites with various things he wants to do on it, but not being completely ignorent to the other side is no fun is it republicans?

Judge the moron Bush for the last 4 years then. I also judge Kerry by the last 19 years, and I see one of the Senators who has been most active in halting corruption and fiscal irresponsibility....and raising taxes, and cutting defense, and saying in '92 that Vietnam should not be a presidential platform...

There is no point. Several times on this forum I have seen people asking why they have no idea what kerry's policies are, and therefore you should all vote for bush. Someone always comes along with links to easy to find websites with various things he wants to do on it, but not being completely ignorent to the other side is no fun is it republicans?

I'm not going to make the same mistake they do by demonizing those who do not share my beliefs. Hopefully, real information will eventually leak into the general population and we can actually discuss the issues.

You are a shining example of "Republicans"? :eek:

No, he's a shining example of stupidity...

...and raising taxes, and cutting defense, and saying in '92 that Vietnam should not be a presidential platform...

As for raising taxes, I refer you to the document I posted. With regards to cutting defense, Cheney himself, as Sec of Def, wanted to cut the military just as much as Kerry. Why? Because it was the fiscally responsible thing to do at the time. A lot of obsolete, redundant items were no longer needed after the end of the cold war.

Yes, in 92, Vietnam should not have been used as a presidential platform...BECAUSE WE WEREN'T AT WAR!!!

I also judge Kerry by the last 19 years, and I see one of the Senators who has been most active in halting corruption and fiscal irresponsibility.
Yeah, by doing nothing.

Why is it everyone who promises to move never leaves?

Get the fuck out, it's a free country and the door is open!

It's FAR from a free country, and you are naive to believe such.
If you want to pay for me to relocate, I'd be MORE than happy to do so. I don't have the funds to prepare such a taxing move, but I'm more than willing to accept donations from those willing enough to help me leave this oh so great empire.

I hope this will end the right-wing whining about, "yeah, but what is Kerry gonna do?"

Bush has been president for less than four years. He can recommend to congress, they act. Kerry has been a member of congres for twenty years or so, he has sustained every thing he said is wrong with the US for the last twenty years or so. Plus he admits to commiting war crimes. Does the US want a war president with a proven record of atrocities, racism, elitism, fanaticsm and perveracation, or some someone who's personal (not political)survival does'nt rely on the government teat. If Bush is not president, he will be Bush. If Kerry is not President, he will be Senator. Just like Rome. (Where's a turtle when you need one...)

All I hear is blah blah, then you dissing us Republicans, I have one thing to say to you... :upyours:

chill.

I counter with this: Kerry Unveils One-Point Plan for Better America (http://www.theonion.com/election2004/news_4032.php)

Yeah, by doing nothing.

You just proved you didn't read Kerry's article.

You must be one happy fellow, since ignorance is bliss. Read the article again, buddy.

You just proved you didn't read Kerry's article.

You must be one happy fellow, since ignorance is bliss. Read the article again, buddy.
I have read it...2 very boring times.

I see your article, and I raise you Kerry's Senate record. 19 long years of zero bills that are worth anything. At least Chappaquiddick Ted has bills to his name, and a negligent DUI manslaughter to his credit.

As for raising taxes, I refer you to the document I posted. With regards to cutting defense, Cheney himself, as Sec of Def, wanted to cut the military just as much as Kerry. Why? Because it was the fiscally responsible thing to do at the time. A lot of obsolete, redundant items were no longer needed after the end of the cold war.

Yes, in 92, Vietnam should not have been used as a presidential platform...BECAUSE WE WEREN'T AT WAR!!!

Uh, yes we were. The cold war didn't end, the threat changed. The war on terrorism will be a cold war but with media coverage of day to day operations. (turtle, turtle turtle...)

What happened to the Perrien who actually made valid points without frothing at the mouth. I saw it for an hour or two last night, but you have reverted to raving lunacy. Is it all for show or something?

Judge the moron Bush for the last 4 years then. I also judge Kerry by the last 19 years, and I see one of the Senators who has been most active in halting corruption and fiscal irresponsibility.

Enron et al was created under Clinton and squashed by the "business environment" of Bush. (requisite turtle)

Perrien got deleted for his third flaming offense in as many days. Sorry.

I have read it...2 very boring times.

I see your article, and I raise you Kerry's Senate record. 19 long years of zero bills that are worth anything. At least Chappaquiddick Ted has bills to his name, and a negligent DUI manslaughter to his credit.

There's no use arguing with you. You've had the available material readily available as to what Kerry has done in the Senate (Iran-Contra, anyone?) you just simply refuse to absorb it. Kerry's inactivity in the Senate is a simple lie, and you should know it by now.

Let me ask you something. How could Kerry possibly earn the equally untrue "most liberal Senator" appelation, AND not have done anything.

The right's attacks on Kerry make NO sense.

It's FAR from a free country, and you are naive to believe such.
If you want to pay for me to relocate, I'd be MORE than happy to do so. I don't have the funds to prepare such a taxing move, but I'm more than willing to accept donations from those willing enough to help me leave this oh so great empire.

Oh, another entitlement program? What if you came back? would we have to pay you to leave again? How many immigrants to the the US were paid directly by their homeland to leave?

Enron et al was created under Clinton and squashed by the "business environment" of Bush. (requisite turtle)

Hahahahahahahahaha!

Enron was indeed bilking investors and customers for a long time (predating Clinton,) but they reached the very height of their corruption under Bush and de-regulation. It was handy for Kenny Boy to have a friend in the Whitehouse, and friends (perhaps even himself) in that ultra-secret energy meeting with Cheney. Notice that Lay's trial has been pushed back so that it won't interfere with the election?

If I had a nickle for every time a Bush supporter said, "...but Clinton!" I'd be rich enough to be a Republican by now. Ugh, even saying that in jest made me feel dirty.

There's no use arguing with you. You've had the available material readily available as to what Kerry has done in the Senate (Iran-Contra, anyone?) you just simply refuse to absorb it. Kerry's inactivity in the Senate is a simple lie, and you should know it by now.

Let me ask you something. How could Kerry possibly earn the equally untrue "most liberal Senator" appelation, AND not have done anything.

The right's attacks on Kerry make NO sense.

By not confronting issues and having ready sound bites he has not done anything. Iran contra? Harvard historians are already proving him wrong. (History is writen by the winners. (sic) Whoever. This turtle is tired.

By not confronting issues and having ready sound bites he has not done anything. Iran contra? Harvard historians are already proving him wrong. (History is writen by the winners. (sic) Whoever. This turtle is tired.

Harvard historians have said Iran Contra didn't happen? What? Are you even trying to be serious?

Kerry has confronted the issues. You, apparently, like to stick your fingers in your ears, scrunch your eyes closed, and whistle as he does so.

Hahahahahahahahaha!

Enron was indeed bilking investors and customers for a long time (predating Clinton,) but they reached the very height of their corruption under Bush and de-regulation. It was handy for Kenny Boy to have a friend in the Whitehouse, and friends (perhaps even himself) in that ultra-secret energy meeting with Cheney. Notice that Lay's trial has been pushed back so that it won't interfere with the election?

If I had a nickle for every time a Bush supporter said, "...but Clinton!" I'd be rich enough to be a Republican by now. Ugh, even saying that in jest made me feel dirty.

Two words: Govenor Davis. Who profited from politicaly from Enron? Bush had to shut Enron down. For bad business practice. Davis still profits. Snapping turtle.

Two words: Govenor Davis. Who profited from politicaly from Enron? Bush had to shut Enron down. For bad business practice. Davis still profits. Snapping turtle.

Bush shut Enron down? Source? Enron folded because of the biggest economic scam of all time, not any actions by Bush. Prove me wrong.

Harvard historians have said Iran Contra didn't happen? What? Are you even trying to be serious?

I did not say that or propose that! What I referenced is Harvard acceptance of the Iran Contra as an effective political decision to negate a more serious military action. In short, it was diplomacy. Not at it's best albeit, but better than creating Irag in 1925.

I did not say that or propose that! What I referenced is Harvard acceptance of the Iran Contra as an effective political decision to negate a more serious military action. In short, it was diplomacy. Not at it's best albeit, but better than creating Irag in 1925.

Umm, that still doesn't mean that laws weren't broken.

Bush shut Enron down? Source? Enron folded because of the biggest economic scam of all time, not any actions by Bush. Prove me wrong.

United States Department of Justice. Any delays in prosecution has been the direct reasult of defendents rights. How many businesses did what's her name investigate as opposed to prosecute. Right, microsoft and tobacco. Have the states used the awards for what they said they would? No, it went to general funds and the elderly still do not have health care related to their smoking habit. The economic scam was SHUT DOWN BY ASCROFT"S JUSCTICE DEPARTMENT after existing under RENO's justice department. Wow, it really didn't take long after the election that ENRON was shut down for bad BUSINESS PRACTICE by a Republican. Slithering turtle.

Umm, that still doesn't mean that laws weren't broken.


Okay, diplomacy has no laws. Is there a Geneva Convention of Diplomacy? Does the United Nations have laws?

Hahahahahahahahaha!

Enron was indeed bilking investors and customers for a long time (predating Clinton,) but they reached the very height of their corruption under Bush and de-regulation. It was handy for Kenny Boy to have a friend in the Whitehouse, and friends (perhaps even himself) in that ultra-secret energy meeting with Cheney. Notice that Lay's trial has been pushed back so that it won't interfere with the election?

If I had a nickle for every time a Bush supporter said, "...but Clinton!" I'd be rich enough to be a Republican by now. Ugh, even saying that in jest made me feel dirty.

Its kinda funny how this big investigation didn't turn up anything on Bush doing favors for Enron but, its ok to say he was in cahoots. And they may have reached their very height of corruption during Bush's administration but how well are the doing now?

However, if I talked about Kerry's hypocriosy when he talked about big businesses out sourcing when he's tied to Heinz, who outsources about 70 percent of their labor to foreign countries, you would probably say something to the effect of proove it. If you can scream Bush was in cahoots with Enron without any concrete evidence besides left slanting newspaper editorials, I can say that Kerry is being a hypocrite whenever he talks about "Benedict Arnold" companies. Of course that would make me a "mean republican." :rolleyes:

Okay, diplomacy has no laws. Is there a Geneva Convention of Diplomacy? Does the United Nations have laws?

No, but the US had specific laws about selling arms to Iran.

Okay, diplomacy has no laws. Is there a Geneva Convention of Diplomacy? Does the United Nations have laws?
Good night, this is good, telegram me but it might be awhile before I get back to you. Godspeed.

United States Department of Justice. Any delays in prosecution has been the direct reasult of defendents rights. How many businesses did what's her name investigate as opposed to prosecute. Right, microsoft and tobacco. Have the states used the awards for what they said they would? No, it went to general funds and the elderly still do not have health care related to their smoking habit. The economic scam was SHUT DOWN BY ASCROFT"S JUSCTICE DEPARTMENT after existing under RENO's justice department. Wow, it really didn't take long after the election that ENRON was shut down for bad BUSINESS PRACTICE by a Republican. Slithering turtle.

Enron shut down because they declared bankruptcy. The justice dept investigation came later, after invesotrs realized they had been bilked for billions.

No, but the US had specific laws about selling arms to Iran.
Congres passed laws. The executive branch has sole diplomatic authority. The judiciary decides later. What was the Judiciary overall decision? TG me.

I hope this will end the right-wing whining about, "yeah, but what is Kerry gonna do?"


Still, he never said *How* he was going to accomplish thes oh-so-lofty-yet-fiscally-irresponsible goals. :sniper:

Kerry can promise what ever he likes, it still doesn't man it will pass a republican house and conrgess.

Last, the devil is in the details- which according to Kerry's statements are few and far between. :rolleyes:

Typical J. Kerry- say's whatever will get him the most popularity because he knows it will never happen. :headbang:

What happened to the Perrien who actually made valid points without frothing at the mouth. I saw it for an hour or two last night, but you have reverted to raving lunacy. Is it all for show or something?

Judge the moron Bush for the last 4 years then. I also judge Kerry by the last 19 years, and I see one of the Senators who has been most active in halting corruption and fiscal irresponsibility.

Most Active in haulting corruption? If being absent 76% of the time and voiting for the storage of waste in nature before suddenly deciding he is against it to appease voters. Then voting against the body armor for the soldiers then saying he would have given it to the soldiers if HE were president again to earn the vote. If these are the actions of the MOST active person haulting corruption and irresponsibility I think I'll stick with Bush. At least I know whatever he is saying stands by whatever he has been doing and doesnt change with the wind of the public eye. Thanks for the amusing read there though.

Most Active in haulting corruption? If being absent 76% of the time and voiting for the storage of waste in nature before suddenly deciding he is against it to appease voters. Then voting against the body armor for the soldiers then saying he would have given it to the soldiers if HE were president again to earn the vote. If these are the actions of the MOST active person haulting corruption and irresponsibility I think I'll stick with Bush. At least I know whatever he is saying stands by whatever he has been doing and doesnt change with the wind of the public eye. Thanks for the amusing read there though.

God, how many times do I have to plug the goddam truth into people. Kerry did not vote against giving body armor to the troops. That was the Pentagon's decision. Kerry voted for one version of the $87 billion appropriations bill (which the Republicans voted against, hence why it wasn't passed) then voted against a different version that he saw as fiscally irresponsible. This 2nd vote was the one that passed, and it failed to make the pentagon insure body armor for the troops.

The body armor issue is the fault of the Republicans alone. They wrote the appropriatons bill that passed despite Kerry's vote, and they are in charge of the Pentagon. Do you get it yet, or should I use smaller words and go slower?

All I hear is blah blah, then you dissing us Republicans, I have one thing to say to you... :upyours:

All I hear is "look at me I'm stupid :headbang:"

I have one thing to say to you... :cool:

Still, he never said *How* he was going to accomplish thes oh-so-lofty-yet-fiscally-irresponsible goals. :sniper:

Kerry can promise what ever he likes, it still doesn't man it will pass a republican house and conrgess.

Last, the devil is in the details- which according to Kerry's statements are few and far between. :rolleyes:

Typical J. Kerry- say's whatever will get him the most popularity because he knows it will never happen. :headbang:

So, I take it you didn't read the article THIS WHOLE F***ING POST IS ABOUT? You know, all the parts where he says exactly how he's going to pay for it?

Typical Kerry-Hater. Ignore what the man says and is really about, and keep saying over and over what his opponents say about him. I mean, if you can't trust a man's enemies to give you the straight dope on him, who can you trust?

Pathetic, really pathetic. You can't even be bothered to read ONE SINGLE DOCUMENT. Is anything beyond the TV Guide too tough of a read for you?

God, how many times do I have to plug the goddam truth into people. Kerry did not vote against giving body armor to the troops. That was the Pentagon's decision. Kerry voted for one version of the $87 billion appropriations bill (which the Republicans voted against, hence why it wasn't passed) then voted against a different version that he saw as fiscally irresponsible. This 2nd vote was the one that passed, and it failed to make the pentagon insure body armor for the troops.

The body armor issue is the fault of the Republicans alone. They wrote the appropriatons bill that passed despite Kerry's vote, and they are in charge of the Pentagon. Do you get it yet, or should I use smaller words and go slower?

Geeze you didn't have to be rude about it... that still doesn't justify him as the things you said he would be... He did vote against the body armor. Yes he voted against it because he wanted a different plan but still he did vote against it. Just like he voted for burying nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain but then went on to say he was against it... Im just trying to make heads and tales of things but if Im gonna get attacked for trying to be part of the conversation count me out... *shrugs and wanders off to go wash relace her boots or something similarly as amusing*

Geeze you didn't have to be rude about it... that still doesn't justify him as the things you said he would be... He did vote against the body armor. Yes he voted against it because he wanted a different plan but still he did vote against it. Just like he voted for burying nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain but then went on to say he was against it... Im just trying to make heads and tales of things but if Im gonna get attacked for trying to be part of the conversation count me out... *shrugs and wanders off to go wash relace her boots or something similarly as amusing*

Endazel. Please. Look at the facts. The Republicans voted against the first plan because they wanted a different plan too. This is how Congress works. They introduce new plans until one passes. How can you condemn Kerry for doing his job?

Again, it was the PENTAGON that failed to supply the body armor after the $87 billion dollar bill was passed. Kerry's vote had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Geez, and it was Bush's campaign promise to Nevada about not dumping waste in Yucca Mountain. The same dumping that was later approved by Bush's signature.

Endazel. Please. Look at the facts. The Republicans voted against the first plan because they wanted a different plan too. This is how Congress works. They introduce new plans until one passes. How can you condemn Kerry for doing his job?

Again, it was the PENTAGON that failed to supply the body armor after the $87 billion dollar bill was passed. Kerry's vote had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I don't condemn Kerry for doing his job... Only when he makes statements as to say he would done something like properly arm our soldiers with "body armor" as if to say the president did nothing when he had a fair hand in it. By his own words he admits it.

"I'm proud to say that John [Edwards] joined me in voting against that $87 billion when we knew the policy had to be changed. We had to get it right. We needed other countries involved. "
- John Kerry, July 12, 2004

He admits it himself... even if he was not responsable as you say then why is he gladly taking fault for it?

Geez, and it was Bush's campaign promise to Nevada about not dumping waste in Yucca Mountain. The same dumping that was later approved by Bush's signature.

True he did change his mind too but so did Kerry...

No, he's a shining example of stupidity...
I thought "republican" and "stupidity" were synonyms

I counter with this: Kerry Unveils One-Point Plan for Better America (http://www.theonion.com/election2004/news_4032.php)

You counter with a joke article.... good call? :confused:

Hahahahahahahahaha!
If I had a nickle for every time a Bush supporter said, "...but Clinton!" I'd be rich enough to be a Republican by now. Ugh, even saying that in jest made me feel dirty.
Indeed... I am suddenly reminded of a quote from our dear friend BJ Smith, a la Vice City (listen to the KCHAT station for a bit) "Nah, there's guys twice my size. But I'm quick, rich, and angry. Like a Republican."

True he did change his mind too but so did Kerry...
And since when was changing your mind necessarily a bad thing? There are two types of people who don't change their minds when they realize they're wrong: 1) Total idiots and 2) Republicans. I have yet to see any republican admit to being wrong about anything, as they are so often proven to be. I Dunno about you, but when I get my ass handed to me on a silver platter by facts I generally change my mind about it so I can be right again. Like when I made the switch from Intel to AMD... but that's neither here nor there.

And since when was changing your mind necessarily a bad thing? There are two types of people who don't change their minds when they realize they're wrong: 1) Total idiots and 2) Republicans. I have yet to see any republican admit to being wrong about anything, as they are so often proven to be. I Dunno about you, but when I get my ass handed to me on a silver platter by facts I generally change my mind about it so I can be right again. Like when I made the switch from Intel to AMD... but that's neither here nor there.

LMAO Point and Point. All I was saying was that some of the changes in opinion didn't sit well with me. As for Republicans... yea... I haven't heard many admit when their wrong nor have I heard much admission from the Democrats I know either... Its hard for people to swallow it and admit when they are wrong and I get called a fence sitter by both sides for being Independant LOL I listen to both sides and at the end of the day I try to make sense of it all like a Jury after a trial. LOL yea Though choosing between Intel and AMD is like the Kerry Bush campaign in and of itself LMAO faulty or REALLY faulty

Im more then interested in keeping up the conversation but its nearing midnight and I am gonna turn into a pumpkin. Anyone wanna talk with me about this please do:

dragonfly@whoever.com

Yea its a real e-mail account heh. I dont support Bush or Kerry I just like playing devils advocate and making sure people can really stand behind their man instead of BSing their way through it. A lot of BS but for those of you who did not BS, Rock on, USA needs more thinkers.

Night All *hugs those who want*

I don't condemn Kerry for doing his job... Only when he makes statements as to say he would done something like properly arm our soldiers with "body armor" as if to say the president did nothing when he had a fair hand in it. By his own words he admits it.

"I'm proud to say that John [Edwards] joined me in voting against that $87 billion when we knew the policy had to be changed. We had to get it right. We needed other countries involved. "
- John Kerry, July 12, 2004

He admits it himself... even if he was not responsable as you say then why is he gladly taking fault for it?

Exactly, He says exactly that the policy needed to be changed. He's not admitting fault, he's rightly saying that the legislation needed to be better, and as results showed, he was right. Bush got the legislation that he wanted passed...and there was no body armor as a result.

LMAO Point and Point. All I was saying was that some of the changes in opinion didn't sit well with me. As for Republicans... yea... I haven't heard many admit when their wrong nor have I heard much admission from the Democrats I know either... Its hard for people to swallow it and admit when they are wrong and I get called a fence sitter by both sides for being Independant LOL I listen to both sides and at the end of the day I try to make sense of it all like a Jury after a trial. LOL yea Though choosing between Intel and AMD is like the Kerry Bush campaign in and of itself LMAO faulty or REALLY faulty

Ah so I see you're a mac supporter... even worse.

I've got living proof in AMD's greatness... our domain controller, an AMD based system, has been up for the past 41 days without a hitch.

the bush/kerry campaign is more like trying to decide between cyrix or a mac... Go slow and crash, or go slower and crash more. That is if you want to think of it like that. Personally I think Kerry will do a good job as president, though a box of tic-tac's could do well compared to bush. It was even proven in a poll on Maddox's site ;D

I've got living proof in AMD's greatness... our domain controller, an AMD based system, has been up for the past 41 days without a hitch.

Off-topic: My workstation (Intel platform) has been up for 10 months. Naturally, I'm biased because I work for Intel.

Ah so I see you're a mac supporter... even worse.

I've got living proof in AMD's greatness... our domain controller, an AMD based system, has been up for the past 41 days without a hitch.

the bush/kerry campaign is more like trying to decide between cyrix or a mac... Go slow and crash, or go slower and crash more. That is if you want to think of it like that. Personally I think Kerry will do a good job as president, though a box of tic-tac's could do well compared to bush. It was even proven in a poll on Maddox's site ;D

I've got a 1.33 Ghz AMD processor that I've had for about 3 years now. Never had a problem with it (except the fan is kinda loud, but that's not the chip's fault.)

Thinking Kerry is going to get a line item veto is very naive. Of course, he only said he was going to ask for it, not get it....

Personally, I take umbrage to calling everything an "excuse" by Bush. Why don't we properly lay the blame on the Clinton adminstration for not knocking out Osama when they had the chance, instead of just laying back until someone else had to deal with 9/11? Why don't we lay the blame on the Clinton administration for the dot.com busts and the corporate scandals that caused a large downturn in the economy?

Why don't we hold Kerry responsible for his own votes and track record? For his own words vilifying his fellow soldiers in Vietnam after he was out of harm's way? Why should we accept HIS excuses? (And I'd like to hear his wife's excuses for moving Heinz jobs out of the USA..though we shouldn't listen to them, of course!)

I probably would have voted for an Edwards/Dean ticket if the Democrats had the gonads to promote the people with real ideas and attitude, instead of a true weathervane politician. I might even have voted for an Edwards/Kerry ticket, since the VP doesn't have to be a person of conviction.

I'll accept valid reasons the economy isn't what it should be..and hold Kerry accountable for brushing them off as irrelevant "excuses" that Bush should have somehow prevented before coming into office.

Bush is the lesser of the two evils this time around. The Dems have only themselves to blame for that.

Thinking Kerry is going to get a line item veto is very naive. Of course, he only said he was going to ask for it, not get it....

Personally, I take umbrage to calling everything an "excuse" by Bush. Why don't we properly lay the blame on the Clinton adminstration for not knocking out Osama when they had the chance, instead of just laying back until someone else had to deal with 9/11? Why don't we lay the blame on the Clinton administration for the dot.com busts and the corporate scandals that caused a large downturn in the economy?

Why don't we hold Kerry responsible for his own votes and track record? For his own words vilifying his fellow soldiers in Vietnam after he was out of harm's way? Why should we accept HIS excuses? (And I'd like to hear his wife's excuses for moving Heinz jobs out of the USA..though we shouldn't listen to them, of course!)

I probably would have voted for an Edwards/Dean ticket if the Democrats had the gonads to promote the people with real ideas and attitude, instead of a true weathervane politician. I might even have voted for an Edwards/Kerry ticket, since the VP doesn't have to be a person of conviction.

I'll accept valid reasons the economy isn't what it should be..and hold Kerry accountable for brushing them off as irrelevant "excuses" that Bush should have somehow prevented before coming into office.

Bush is the lesser of the two evils this time around. The Dems have only themselves to blame for that.

If we blame Clinton for that, then we should blame Reagan and Bush I for arming Osama in the first place. We could blame Reagan for negotiation with terrorists when it was his official policy to never negotiate with terrorists. I could make excuses for Clinton by letting you know that "getting Osama when we had the chance" wasn't as clear cut as the Right would have you believe, but that is all beside the point. Hindsight is 20/20. Mistakes made in the past do not excuse mistakes made now.

I, personally, am blaming Bush for what's going on now. Bush's economic policies have clearly encouraged a further concentration of wealth in the already rich, and he is not bidging from them.

Bush's foreign policy has angered the world, including allies, and made it more difficult to hunt down terrorists, who, by definition, are not confined by the borders of any country, and Bush isn't budging from that stance.

I blame Bush for the ill-conceived Iraq war, and the ill-conceived execution of said war, and Bush isn't budging.

I blame Bush for the "you're either with us or against us," attitude that is pervasive in politics today.

I blame Bush having the worst environmental policy in recent history.

I blame Bush for charging the American people for the excesses of Corporate America.

Seriously, just because your predecessor may or may not have doen a crappy job in no ways excuses your crappy job. Bush needs to be fired.

you go count all the trees that got the axe before Bush was in office.

most of the the guys in the white house have really sucked

JFK was the last good one . try not picking a pol to run for office
pick a leader , no leaders running this time, you had your chance with Dean.

and a one point plan of not being Bush , wow what a plan ,how about he
try being Kerry instead ?

yes I wanted and still want Dean to lead this nation , oh well.

you go count all the trees that got the axe before Bush was in office.

most of the the guys in the white house have really sucked

JFK was the last good one . try not picking a pol to run for office
pick a leader , no leaders running this time, you had your chance with Dean.

and a one point plan of not being Bush , wow what a plan ,how about he
try being Kerry instead ?

yes I wanted and still want Dean to lead this nation , oh well.

Wait, you read the satire article, but not Kerry's economic plan I posted to start this thread?

Far too many who oppose Bush have still swallowed the Bush teams attacks on Kerry. I have yet to see any criticism of Kerry that stands up to actual research and thought.

the raise taxes on the middle class while calling them the rich ?
anyone who owns even a small shop is grossing more than $200,000 a year

I work at a store than grosses $700,000 a year , and after all the bills and
taxes , we are not making all that much.

and will the new VP sue all the doctors to bring down the cost of our meds ?

how about states drop the tax on medicial services and drugs ?

not a Dem or a Rep

the raise taxes on the middle class while calling them the rich ?
anyone who owns even a small shop is grossing more than $200,000 a year

I work at a store than grosses $700,000 a year , and after all the bills and
taxes , we are not making all that much.

and will the new VP sue all the doctors to bring down the cost of our meds ?

how about states drop the tax on medicial services and drugs ?

not a Dem or a Rep

Sigh. Do you know that a good number of Presidents have been Lawyers?

It's not the taxes that make the drugs cost so much. Because we are not allowed to import drugs, the companies have limited competition. They are free to almost charge whatever they want, while simultaneously selling the same drugs to the rest of the world at a fraction of the cost we see.

Sigh. Do you know that a good number of Presidents have been Lawyers?

It's not the taxes that make the drugs cost so much. Because we are not allowed to import drugs, the companies have limited competition. They are free to almost charge whatever they want, while simultaneously selling the same drugs to the rest of the world at a fraction of the cost we see.



That is why heads of companies that do that should be charged with Treason. Not only are they bilking, defrauding, and bankrupting the nation, they are putting it's very health at risk, and that is unforgivable. By the way, if we cut loopholes for taxes on Corpos and the rich, the middle and lower classes would'nt have to be taxed so much...

I never said he did but its a bad plan.

I never said he did but its a bad plan.

That's nice, but what's your reasoning behind that?

I hope this will end the right-wing whining about, "yeah, but what is Kerry gonna do?"

There's a saying, I hear it a lot in texas. Actions speak louder then words. All I've seen so far is words, how many years has Kerry been in office and done VERY LITTLE action.

Speak all you want, but I'm going to do something about it.

~W~

actions certainly do speak louer than words and when you see Kerrys actions in office they were all about small business and the environment and honoring American heros.

Bush's actions are quite loud... deafening even. Like BOMBS falling on your house while yer inside. Too many people have been needlessly sent to their death over Bushs war with Iraq. We need a president who will put the rest of the world back on our side again. Someone who will not undermine the constitution for religious purposes and bigotry. Someone who doesn't think about the rich while trampling on the poor. Go ahead and vote for Bush if you hate America.

actions certainly do speak louer than words and when you see Kerrys actions in office they were all about small business and the environment and honoring American heros.

Bush's actions are quite loud... deafening even. Like BOMBS falling on your house while yer inside. Too many people have been needlessly sent to their death over Bushs war with Iraq. We need a president who will put the rest of the world back on our side again. Someone who will not undermine the constitution for religious purposes and bigotry. Someone who doesn't think about the rich while trampling on the poor. Go ahead and vote for Bush if you hate America.

Well said.

Off-topic: My workstation (Intel platform) has been up for 10 months. Naturally, I'm biased because I work for Intel.

It'd have been up longer, but the power went out before >_<

Thinking Kerry is going to get a line item veto is very naive. Of course, he only said he was going to ask for it, not get it....

Personally, I take umbrage to calling everything an "excuse" by Bush. Why don't we properly lay the blame on the Clinton adminstration for not knocking out Osama when they had the chance, instead of just laying back until someone else had to deal with 9/11? Why don't we lay the blame on the Clinton administration for the dot.com busts and the corporate scandals that caused a large downturn in the economy?
You blame the Clinton administration for not dealing with problems that Bush Sr. left, and, quite frankly, didn't appear to be a threat at the time? And in case you'd forgotten, 9/11 happened after bush had taken office, not before.
I probably would have voted for an Edwards/Dean ticket if the Democrats had the gonads to promote the people with real ideas and attitude, instead of a true weathervane politician. I might even have voted for an Edwards/Kerry ticket, since the VP doesn't have to be a person of conviction.
Er, it's not that the party officials have no gonads (which isn't entirely unlikely in the case of any political party), it's just that they thought we'd have a better chance with someone who isn't emotionally unstable ;p
I'll accept valid reasons the economy isn't what it should be..and hold Kerry accountable for brushing them off as irrelevant "excuses" that Bush should have somehow prevented before coming into office.
The economy isn't what it should be because bush spent more than all of our money.
Bush is the lesser of the two evils this time around. The Dems have only themselves to blame for that.
Only if you wan't the entire nation irradiated, and turned into a barren wasteland lacking all flora and fauna.

That is why heads of companies that do that should be charged with Treason. Not only are they bilking, defrauding, and bankrupting the nation, they are putting it's very health at risk, and that is unforgivable. By the way, if we cut loopholes for taxes on Corpos and the rich, the middle and lower classes would'nt have to be taxed so much...

If it's not illegal why should they be charged for anything? Oh and in case you really CAN'T read, it was in kerry's real plan to cut those loopholes out.

actions certainly do speak louer than words and when you see Kerrys actions in office they were all about small business and the environment and honoring American heros.

Bush's actions are quite loud... deafening even. Like BOMBS falling on your house while yer inside. Too many people have been needlessly sent to their death over Bushs war with Iraq. We need a president who will put the rest of the world back on our side again. Someone who will not undermine the constitution for religious purposes and bigotry. Someone who doesn't think about the rich while trampling on the poor. Go ahead and vote for Bush if you hate America.

Couldn't have said it better myself :D

Hahahahahahahahaha!

Enron was indeed bilking investors and customers for a long time (predating Clinton,) but they reached the very height of their corruption under Bush and de-regulation. It was handy for Kenny Boy to have a friend in the Whitehouse, and friends (perhaps even himself) in that ultra-secret energy meeting with Cheney. Notice that Lay's trial has been pushed back so that it won't interfere with the election?

If I had a nickle for every time a Bush supporter said, "...but Clinton!" I'd be rich enough to be a Republican by now. Ugh, even saying that in jest made me feel dirty.
Funny. Enron's downfall was at the start of the Bush administration, due to Enron's malfeasance during the Clinton years.

That whole "California energy crisis and Enron manipulating prices" thing? 2000, while Clinton was president.

The mis-management of Enron employee retirement funds? Dates from the 1990's, it finally became public in 2001.

Using Enron employee retirement funds to make campaign contributions to both sides? 2000, Clinton was president.

And I don't recall any brave statements by Jean Francois Kerry regarding the Enron scandals...until 2003 when he started his soon-to-be-failed presidential run.

Enron shut down because they declared bankruptcy. The justice dept investigation came later, after invesotrs realized they had been bilked for billions.
Bilked for billions during the late 1990s and 2000, thanks to the "free for all" atmosphere inspired by the Clinton years.

actions certainly do speak louer than words and when you see Kerrys actions in office they were all about small business and the environment and honoring American heros.

Considering how when it came to fiscal policy Kerry had been a consistent protectionist and tax-hiker I don't think he had business in mind. Let's not even talk about his shameless slander against American soldiers... his "Winter Soldier" testimony in front of Congress says it all.

Bush's actions are quite loud... deafening even. Like BOMBS falling on your house while yer inside. Too many people have been needlessly sent to their death over Bushs war with Iraq. We need a president who will put the rest of the world back on our side again. Someone who will not undermine the constitution for religious purposes and bigotry. Someone who doesn't think about the rich while trampling on the poor. Go ahead and vote for Bush if you hate America.

President Kerry surrendering American power to useless, corrupt bureaucrats living off American taxpayers on 51st St. *shudder*

actions certainly do speak louer than words and when you see Kerrys actions in office they were all about small business and the environment and honoring American heros.
Yeah, by throwing someone else's medals (or ribbons, he still can't decide what it was he threw away, or even if it belonged to him or someone else;) and by declaring ALL who served in Vietnam war criminals, only to claim their honor when he is running for office (not just this presidential race)??

We need a president who will put the rest of the world back on our side again.
By handing over any decisions about the US national defense to France, Germany and the UN??
Someone who doesn't think about the rich while trampling on the poor.Oh, I see, another reference to the "tax cuts for the rich"...too bad for your "theory," every tax payer got a tax cut. And those "evil" richest 1 percent? They pay over 33 percent of the entire tax revenue in the US. I know, you won't believe me, so believe this (http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/01in01ts.xls).
Go ahead and vote for Bush if you hate America.And just who is questioning whose patriotism? Oh, yeah, those bad Republicans always questioning the patriotism of the liberals. Of course!

Gimme a break.

Bush is the closest thing to Adolf Hitler we have in this country. Vote Bush if you're a nazi!

Bush is the closest thing to Adolf Hitler we have in this country. Vote Bush if you're a nazi!

Hehe, this gave me a chuckle, just at the randomness. Funny side note, a nazi I knew in high school is voting Bush.

Anyway, I didn't read the first post mostly cause it's 2AM and I'd fall asleep on my keyboard if I did, so I just read the posts. I always enjoy the debates more anyway. I wish Kerry was doing a better job getting his position out there and trying to drown out all the anti-kerry ads (I saw a rare thing the other day...a PRO-bush commercial. first one I've ever seen.), but I keep watching www.electoral-vote.com and hoping for Kerry to pull it out. It's too bad that bush is being so successful in his character assassination; just seeing all these people (online and offline) calling Kerry a flip-flopper (when bush is just as much, not my debate, find one of those other threads), citing the Swift Boat Vets (once again, another thread, been disproved), calling him most liberal (not even in top 10!), and that he doesn't have a platform at all. All that just proves that Bush's campaign is doing a lot better smear campaign than Kerry's. Which is another reason why I won't vote for him (can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all...wouldn't hear much from bush eh?)

Hmm, that looks like it'll be tough to read. Or maybe my lack of sleep is just making it more confusing to me. Ok, here's the simple version. "Go Bush! Just go away! Yay Kerry!"

I'm still seeing Repugs caliming Kerry doesn't have a plan. Now, it's a valid point of view that Kerry might not carry through with the plan, it's freely open for debate.

To state that Kerry has no plan, or doesn't have ways of paying for it is sheer stupidity though. Seriously, stop being blind.

I'm still seeing Repugs caliming Kerry doesn't have a plan. Now, it's a valid point of view that Kerry might not carry through with the plan, it's freely open for debate.

To state that Kerry has no plan, or doesn't have ways of paying for it is sheer stupidity though. Seriously, stop being blind.
Oh, Kerry does have a way to pay for his so-called plan. He'll go to the standard liberal measure: he'll raise taxes.

And if you truly believe that only the Evil Top One Percent will wind up paying more, I have news for you. You want to see who will pay higher taxes to support the implementation of the Kerry "plan?" Easy, look in the mirror. Economics don't lie. The only true "trickle down economics" applies in the area of taxes. Higher taxes trickle down, and those at the bottom wind up paying the tax for those on top.