NationStates Jolt Archive

When Ronald Reagan was running for re-election he asked the American people "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?". If Bush did the same what would be your reply? I vote no because
A needless, counterproductive war in Iraq
Resources diverted from homeland security and the hunt for Al Quaeda
A net loss of jobs
A huge deficit
Less real wages for the average American
Continuous blurring of the line between church and state

Hey Dan Rather...can you think for yourself, or is it that all you can do is take the talking points and inject them becuase you have nothing worth saying for yourself?

You question implied "Are you better off", yet your problem is with things that have not a damn thing to do with you, other than you just don't like them.

I could make an argument like this:
I've been working out lately and lost 20 pounds, when asked "Am I in better shape", and I reply. "Hell no, people around me are all fat, I see lazy asses everywhere."

If your going to make the case predicated with a direct question, you need to use personal experience, not just be a lemming and follow Dean and Gore over the cliff. Study harder, there is hope for you, but just a slight amount.

Yes. I am better off: I have a better job, a better home, and am more secure.

I am also still free to give all this up and dislocate myself. To a better job, a better home and a better life.

Hey Dan Rather...can you think for yourself, or is it that all you can do is take the talking points and inject them becuase you have nothing worth saying for yourself?

You question implied "Are you better off", yet your problem is with things that have not a damn thing to do with you, other than you just don't like them.

I could make an argument like this:
I've been working out lately and lost 20 pounds, when asked "Am I in better shape", and I reply. "Hell no, people around me are all fat, I see lazy asses everywhere."

If your going to make the case predicated with a direct question, you need to use personal experience, not just be a lemming and follow Dean and Gore over the cliff. Study harder, there is hope for you, but just a slight amount.
Actually these thing do have a lot to do with me. Security and a strong economy are personal issues because I live in a place where terrorism is more likely than west butfuck montana, and because I want to have a more prosperous community and a bigger paycheck.

Yes. I am better off: I have a better job, a better home, and am more secure.

I am also still free to give all this up and dislocate myself. To a better job, a better home and a better life.
You are one of the few to be economically better off. BTW you are not more secure.

You are one of the few to be economically better off. BTW you are not more secure.
And why would I not be more secure? My assault rifles are now legal again.
:)

I personally have more rights than I did 4 years ago. But I dont have the money I had 4 years ago. Still I'll take my rights over green backs anyday.

And why would I not be more secure? My assault rifles are now legal again.
:)
Because our military is stretched thin on a fool's errand in Iraq and not being used to persue terrorists. Because Abu Graib has radicalized a large number of muslim men who may join terrorist groups. Because Bush's policies have isolated us from many usefull allies. Because money that could be used for homeland security has been spent on Iraq. Because the INS hasn't been strengthened. Shall I go on?

I personally have more rights than I did 4 years ago. But I dont have the money I had 4 years ago. Still I'll take my rights over green backs anyday.

*standing ovation* Some things and ideas are worth more than money.

What rights do you have now that you lacked 4 years ago? Aside from the assault weapons thing. I'm in agreement with you on that.

I'm surrounded by fear.

My job search is dragging on into its sixth month.

I'm paying for gas with various parts of my anatomy.

People I care about are in a war zone halfway around the world instead of at home with those of us who love them.

I still can't attend the weddings of other people I care about who love each other as committedly as any het couple.

I have no health insurance. I am, theoretically, a criminal for getting my prescription medicines from outside the country.

My parents can no longer afford to keep the house I grew up in.

The public schools in my city, including the high school I'll eventually have to send my daughter to because we won't be able to afford private school, are failing and the promised federal assistance has been cut to nothing.

Better off my ass....

Economically? No.

The price hikes in Insurences, Gas, and general cost of living stuff have more then surpassed my "tax cuts"

Secure? Well I don't see Bin Laden but does that really mean we are more secure? We weren't seriously looking for attacks and now we are. The Shrub can't be the reason for that. Any goverment would have actively started policing these areas after 9/11.

I have seen the futre(ie web ex) which will make the need for knowlegable System Admins and network admins to be on site to be less of a requirement. So job exportation will go into overdrive.

Much of the arguments I have read seem to be "for the fatherland" mentality.

Having a job is a necessity to exist. It is not a reward.

So that and the shrubs attack on the Constitution is why I can never vote for him.

Eww I forgot.

A joke from I think Jay Leno

Not exact.

"President Bush wants to know if the rich person you work for is better off now then he was 4 years ago."

;)

Because our military is stretched thin on a fool's errand in Iraq and not being used to persue terrorists. Because Abu Graib has radicalized a large number of muslim men who may join terrorist groups. Because Bush's policies have isolated us from many usefull allies. Because money that could be used for homeland security has been spent on Iraq. Because the INS hasn't been strengthened. Shall I go on?

None of which really affect my personal security. I am responsible for secureing my family, not some "mother/father* state. I can fight *read the second ammendment someday* The fact that I prefer swords does not mean that I am incapable or unwilling to use rifles etc to secure my family. It just means that there is the benefit of the doubt.

None of which really affect my personal security. I am responsible for secureing my family, not some "mother/father* state. I can fight *read the second ammendment someday* The fact that I prefer swords does not mean that I am incapable or unwilling to use rifles etc to secure my family. It just means that there is the benefit of the doubt.
A secure country is a prosperous one. The 9/11 attacks damaged the airline industry and it has yet to recover. Large scale terrorist attacks can affect your wallet.

A secure country is a prosperous one. The 9/11 attacks damaged the airline industry and it has yet to recover. Large scale terrorist attacks can affect your wallet.

I rarely fly, so again, no effect.

I am better off.

I rarely fly, so again, no effect.

I am better off.
You are one of the few. Most Americans are worse off.

You are one of the few. Most Americans are worse off.

I don't see this. Explain the details.

I see fewer homeless, I see fewer without health care. What do you see that I am missing? Most of the poeple i deal with are doing better than ever, and we are far from rich.

I am secure, I am free. what else is there?

What rights do you have now that you lacked 4 years ago? Aside from the assault weapons thing. I'm in agreement with you on that.

Any single right (even ones I disagree with) are personally more important to myself than any amount of money on earth. Not all of the rights that were upheld were ones I agree with or Bush agrees with or Clinton would agree with. That is why i dont care what rights they are, I am happy to see them upheld.

I am against gay marriage for personal reasons. But when states rights were upheld when congress voted to leave it to the states. A right was upheld.

The awb being lifted was also a right that was upheld.

When the courts have upheld medical marijuana was a issue for the states to decide, both individual liberty and states rights were upheld.

These all happened in the last 4 years. I would have to dive into my mind to see what else has been good for rights. I know here in Oregon a right will be voted on private property. People that lose their land to wetlands or any other area that tries to stagnate private property will be compensated for that loss.

I don't see this. Explain the details.

I see fewer homeless, I see fewer without health care. What do you see that I am missing? Most of the poeple i deal with are doing better than ever, and we are far from rich.

I am secure, I am free. what else is there?
The poverty rate has risen among all American demographics. Among Blacks it's up 20%
More people are without healthcare according to the latest statistics.
There has been a net _loss_ of jobs nationwide in the last 4 years.
I guess I just see the big picture.

Any single right (even ones I disagree with) are personally more important to myself than any amount of money on earth. Not all of the rights that were upheld were ones I agree with or Bush agrees with or Clinton would agree with. That is why i dont care what rights they are, I am happy to see them upheld.

I am against gay marriage for personal reasons. But when states rights were upheld when congress voted to leave it to the states. A right was upheld.

The awb being lifted was also a right that was upheld.

When the courts have upheld medical marijuana was a issue for the states to decide, both individual liberty and states rights were upheld.

These all happened in the last 4 years. I would have to dive into my mind to see what else has been good for rights. I know here in Oregon a right will be voted on private property. People that lose their land to wetlands or any other area that tries to stagnate private property will be compensated for that loss.
Gay marriage is an issue of equal protection under the law. Disallowing it is a loss of rights.
I agree with the AWB ban being lifted. No argument there.
Still the federal government makes any possesion of marijuana illegal by classifying it as schedule one. Federal laws supercede state laws in court.

I'm a college student, trying desperately to help my parents out with my tuition. We're not fantastically poor, nor am i fantastically brilliant. Therefore, even though my younger brother is a diabetic, the university and the government are doing little to nothing to help us financially. Me and my family are in that nice, middle-class range, which the government deems worthy of no asstance whatsoever. I recently turned 18, which gives me numberous new rights, including the right to vote, and soon enough, the obligation of going to war if i'm drafted. The current foreign and military policies of the united states are causing any nation that disagrees with us much stress. and when countries get stressed, they arm themselves, quickly (i.e. North Korea, Iran). Current policy also dictates that we don't need any sort of international approval or alliance in our battles. Also, it dictates that we can, (if i may say so bluntly) go fuck with anyone who we think could possibly, someday, become a threat to us. With our military forces stretched paper thin right now, if we do end up in a war, guess who'll be sent off to the front lines, dieing for something they may or may not believe in... ME AND MY FRIENDS. Right now i'm scared of that happening, i'm also scared of a bomb exploding on the EL (i live near chicago), and i'm scared that my cousin will be injured or killed in iraq ANY DAY NOW. These and others are fears that i DID NOT HAVE four years ago. And about that assault rifle thing, what could you possibly need an assault rifle for? Hunting? give me a break, if you need more than 6 rounds to take down a deer, you shouldn't be out there in the first place. Protection? no way, if they're legal for you to buy and own, they're also legal for that guy who wants to rob your ass and rape your wife to buy and own. Four more years of Bush, thats what i'm really afraid of.

I personally have a differing opinion on the patriot act than most people in here. Its just my opinion so nobody go jump off a bridge.

I believe the patriot act if used correctly as with any other intelligence idea, will ensure our rights will be upheld. We can not use rights when we are dead. I agree with the patriot act as long as politics stays out of it. If they continue to pursue people that want to do harm to this country and its citizens then I love this act. But if there was an instance of misuse that is proven then I will be 100% against it. Until then I love this idea as well in order to uphold our rights.

Still the federal government makes any possesion of marijuana illegal by classifying it as schedule one. Federal laws supercede state laws in court.

States supercede Federal law unless it has a National Security interest. As has been reiterated by our SCOTUS under these pretenses in our Federalist papers. "Nor however difficult it may be supposed to unite two thirds or three fourths of the State legislatures, in amendments which may affect local interests, can there be any room to apprehend any such difficulty in a union on points which are merely relative to the general liberty or security of the people. We may safely rely on the disposition of the State legislatures to erect barriers against the encroachments of the national authority."


The Feds make marijuana a class 1 drug. The states (like Oregon) have inside the state Constitution that prohibit the federal authority to encroach on its states laws within the boundary's of non National Security issues. This is why the 9th circuit has thrown it back into any presidents face when they pursue such issues. SCOTUS will be looking into this next year to provide more assurances of states rights.

The poverty rate has risen among all American demographics. Among Blacks it's up 20%
More people are without healthcare according to the latest statistics.
There has been a net _loss_ of jobs nationwide in the last 4 years.
I guess I just see the big picture.

You are not seeing the big picture. The big picture is how does this affect the person looking at the big picture. I care about the state of the world, but it is how it affects me and my family, not anyone else. If you think you are being selfless, by careing how someone else is, look again.

I am doing well in a capitalist society, but I am going to leave all the security I have EARNED for something better.

Gay marriage is an issue of equal protection under the law. Disallowing it is a loss of rights.

I agree with you on this but to a point. States will have the right to decide on this issue, simply because the idea is completly foreign to our past liberties. Our forefathers would of never thought 2 gay people would want to marry. Let alone be able to use a system that was meant for 1 man and 1 woman. I do however agree that they deserve to be treated equal and this issue will be one of the more complex and upcoming divisive issue's in this country.

States supercede Federal law unless it has a National Security interest. As has been reiterated by our SCOTUS under these pretenses in our Federalist papers. "Nor however difficult it may be supposed to unite two thirds or three fourths of the State legislatures, in amendments which may affect local interests, can there be any room to apprehend any such difficulty in a union on points which are merely relative to the general liberty or security of the people. We may safely rely on the disposition of the State legislatures to erect barriers against the encroachments of the national authority."


The Feds make marijuana a class 1 drug. The states (like Oregon) have inside the state Constitution that prohibit the federal authority to encroach on its states laws within the boundary's of non National Security issues. This is why the 9th circuit has thrown it back into any presidents face when they pursue such issues. SCOTUS will be looking into this next year to provide more assurances of states rights.
Federal agents have raided marijuana buyer's clubs in California.

You are not seeing the big picture. The big picture is how does this affect the person looking at the big picture. I care about the state of the world, but it is how it affects me and my family, not anyone else. If you think you are being selfless, by careing how someone else is, look again.

I am doing well in a capitalist society, but I am going to leave all the security I have EARNED for something better.
I am doing OK myself, but the way things are now many people are losing out on the same opportunities. Most Americans aren't better off, and I think they should vote Kerry.

A secure country is a prosperous one. The 9/11 attacks damaged the airline industry and it has yet to recover. Large scale terrorist attacks can affect your wallet.

Actually the Airline industries were having problems before 9/11. The attack gave the 2 CEO's a convient "I am not going to be held accountable for 9/11 and the effects" excuse to get out while the getting was good.

Hmph a secure country is a prosperous one? Depends on what you define as secure. The patriot act?

Somebody correct me but doesn't Norway have a rather large standard of living and yet have a minute amount of "security" measures we have.....

My life is much better then it was 4 years ago.

But that has nothing to do with the government, and everything to do with me being 4 years older :p.

Actually the Airline industries were having problems before 9/11. The attack gave the 2 CEO's a convient "I am not going to be held accountable for 9/11 and the effects" excuse to get out while the getting was good.

Hmph a secure country is a prosperous one? Depends on what you define as secure. The patriot act?

Somebody correct me but doesn't Norway have a rather large standard of living and yet have a minute amount of "security" measures we have.....
Norway also has no enemies to speak of. Invading Iraq has likely bred more enemies for us to deal with in the future.

I am doing OK myself, but the way things are now many people are losing out on the same opportunities. Most Americans aren't better off, and I think they should vote Kerry.

I think they should look for their opportunities, and take them. Some of the poeple I work with did, and WOW! They are good!

Good at what they do!

I hate Kerry and Bush. I just Hate Bush less.

Federal agents have raided marijuana buyer's clubs in California.

Yep and the courts told them to give back those peoples pot and bongs lol

That is why the SCOTUS is going to be hearing this issue next year because ashcroft is appealing the ruling. The latest court rulings are based off of the same presumption that the Feds have no authority over non National Security issues in localities of States.

I don't see this. Explain the details.

I see fewer homeless, I see fewer without health care. What do you see that I am missing? Most of the poeple i deal with are doing better than ever, and we are far from rich.

I am secure, I am free. what else is there?

Where do you live?

I see more homeless. The Nurses at my alergy clinic were talking about a noticible increase of people losing their coverage. People doing better well I think more are not so great then worst off. It has only improved for people like the ones who started my company and the executives. Hmmmmm Republicans and executives hmmmmm ;)

I just Hate Bush less.

I dont hate anyone I just prefer it shaved. But yea same feelings here speaking from a Constitutional point I like Bush more than Kerry.

Yep and the courts told them to give back those peoples pot and bongs lol

That is why the SCOTUS is going to be hearing this issue next year because ashcroft is appealing the ruling. The latest court rulings are based off of the same presumption that the Feds have no authority over non National Security issues in localities of States.

Of course they are going to appeal the ruling.

Why have these people smoking which costs oh $200 when they can be purchasing the derivative from the pharmis at $800......

I dont hate anyone I just prefer it shaved. But yea same feelings here speaking from a Constitutional point I like Bush more than Kerry.

A Constitutional point?

Ok you have my curiosity. How is the shrub good for the Constitution?

Of course they are going to appeal the ruling.
Why have these people smoking which costs oh $200 when they can be purchasing the derivative from the pharmis at $800......

lol good point. Although I do agree that it should be treated as any other prescription drug if it is going to be a prescription. I couldn't imagine being able to grow a vicodin(sp) tree hehe :). Shit then Rush would be able to grow his own oxycontin tree and so on lol

A Constitutional point?
Ok you have my curiosity. How is the shrub good for the Constitution?

Only by not being as bad for our Constitution as Kerry would be. Kerry thinks our military should be under the control of a UN C.O. That is unacceptable under any circumstance, since our military is stricly subordinate to the civil power of the US. Kerry would attempt to renew the awb only to make more infringements upon the 2nd ammendment. Remember even if I was against these rights (which I am not) I would be against someone trying to limit them. I am an equal oppurtunity believer in rights for the commie in this country to the facist in this country. Everyone deserves every Constitutional right regardless of what I or anyone else says.

I could also add that there is nothing in our Constitution about having a National Healthcare system or any other National system outside of National Security.

Dont get me wrong, I dont like the infringements Bush has been doing as well. Such as national education, although giving vouchers are a bit of privatizing it from the past wants. and a few more but when I weigh the infringements between the two bush is better for our Constitution than Kerry. Maybe that isn't saying much but take it as you will.

You can put me down for being better off too.

Thanks for the reassurance of my faith in President Bush!

hmmm...I know I already posted here, but I'll do it again :p.

I think we are honestly worst off constitutionally. Don't forget that idiotic gay marrige ban. You know, the one that makes me wanna punch the asshole who wrote it in the face.

I dislike Bush and feel that Kerry wasn't the best choice to go up against him...but Kerry > Bush.

hmmm...I know I already posted here, but I'll do it again .
I think we are honestly worst off constitutionally. Don't forget that idiotic gay marrige ban. You know, the one that makes me wanna punch the asshole who wrote it in the face.
I dislike Bush and feel that Kerry wasn't the best choice to go up against him...but Kerry > Bush.

Ahh yep forgot about that idiotic move also. Is it not great that me and you and whoever else get to vote for whoever they want for whatever reasons? Heck I bet there will be some people that wont even give a care about what either person does to the Constitution, they just want the candidate in their party to win. Still I respect that since we are free to do so. I just don't understand it.