NationStates Jolt Archive

I want to check wich religion the posters on this forum are.

I'm a non practicing catholic...actually I'm still searching what my vision on the spiritual is. I was raised with facts an science, hard to combine with religon.

Weak athiest. I haven't seen any real evidence for god so I don't beleive in one.

I had to pick religions. I don't know if American Christians are in fact some sort of protestants or not. I would have separated Muslim in Sjiite and Sunnite too and Jewish in Sephardic and the other lesser orthodox type. But... only 10 possibilities.

Protestant Christian...BTW, I never found science at all difficult to combine with faith, and never have. Both make good sense to me, and have different functions they serve in your life, that don't really overlap and interfere with each other. If anything, the existence of each gives me confidence in the other.

Guess

:)

Christian. I agree with the science christianity thing, never really conflicted in my mind.

Voted for Catholic plan to be the Pope in Rome someday.

Total atheist.

I have a God though. Its I, me and myself :p

(I am almost serious)

Just an FYI: There's two 'd's in Buddhism. ;)

Oh, and to clear up any misconceptions you may have, here's a summary.

1)Buddha is NOT a god.

2)Nirvana is not heaven.

3)Not all Buddhists are vegetarians/pacifists

4)Pessimism is not a prerequisite of Buddhism. To be specific, the "No self" thing should not be taken literally. It means that one shouldn't look at the world as separate from you, and vice versa.

5)We're not all bald. Nor do we wear only orange/yellow robes.

If you want the detailed info on the beliefs (instead of my clarifying the misconceptions), read Stephen (Steve?) Hagen's Buddhism Plain and Simple.

Crap. I think I'm the only Jew here. This makes me nervous.

Crap. I think I'm the only Jew here. This makes me nervous.

With tens of thousands of nations on NationStates, and probably a few thousand posting here, I really doubt you're alone. :-)

I am confused as to how anyone could be a christian without being either Catholic or Protestant, since any denomination that is not Catholic is by default Protestant.

I'm an atheist, durr.

On a side note, "shit happens" is less stressful than "it's god's will".

I am confused as to how anyone could be a christian without being either Catholic or Protestant, since any denomination that is not Catholic is by default Protestant.
How about gnostic christianity, or coptic for that matter.

Raised as a semi-practicing Jew and with an inexplicable affinity for eastern religion I'm a Jewish-Hindi-Buddhist-psuedomuslim with almost no ceremonial commitments.

... or non-denominational?

And it can get a bit screwy too, Anglicanism is technically a Protestant denomination, but really it's often just Catholicism without the Pope.

Atheist.

And it can get a bit screwy too, Anglicanism is technically a Protestant denomination, but really it's often just Catholicism without the Pope.

how is the anglican church catholacism at all, it is most definetly protestant, there is no mass, pope, confesion, anything like that, it is also probobly the most liberal of the christian faiths, although still not very, after all the uproar over the appointment of the gay bishop earlier this year, the church in general is extremely dated

how is the anglican church catholacism at all, it is most definetly protestant, there is no mass, pope, confesion, anything like that, it is also probobly the most liberal of the christian faiths, although still not very, after all the uproar over the appointment of the gay bishop earlier this year, the church in general is extremely dated

I heard someone describe Anglicanism as "Looks Catholic, talks Protestant." I realize that's a generalization, but what I'm getting at is, some of the outer things (like what the priests wear, some of the rituals) appear Catholic in some ways, but the ideology has moved in a much more Protestant direction.

I am a Sunni Muslim and also a natural-born American. (previously thought to be mutally exclusive)
Now, generally I expect not to have to deal with people calling me a terrorist (though I get more of that paranoid shit daily than anybody should ever have to experience) therefore I won't waste this post with my usual mini-book defense on it. But I will say that we don't all hate Jews. Infact many Israelis aren't Jewish but are infact Bedouin soldiers of fortune. It really has nothing to do with Jews and Muslims. It's about equal rights and having a say about whether or not people can live in their native land without having to be pushed into tiny strips of land that are regulary bulldozed and bombed anyway.

Christian. I agree with the science christianity thing, never really conflicted in my mind.
Dinosaurs did exist, men evolved from apes... we have fact and proof. I know still many american Christians refuse to except this.

Just an FYI: There's two 'd's in Buddhism. ;)

Oh, and to clear up any misconceptions you may have, here's a summary.

1)Buddha is NOT a god.

2)Nirvana is not heaven.

3)Not all Buddhists are vegetarians/pacifists

4)Pessimism is not a prerequisite of Buddhism. To be specific, the "No self" thing should not be taken literally. It means that one shouldn't look at the world as separate from you, and vice versa.

5)We're not all bald. Nor do we wear only orange/yellow robes.

If you want the detailed info on the beliefs (instead of my clarifying the misconceptions), read Stephen (Steve?) Hagen's Buddhism Plain and Simple.

I know Buddha is not a god, and buddhism is more a way of life than a religion, but still I consider it equal to a religion. Sorry about the dd, in my language its boedisme, only one d...

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=357375

I am confused as to how anyone could be a christian without being either Catholic or Protestant, since any denomination that is not Catholic is by default Protestant.

I thought so too, but I got confused because I always hear americans say they are Christians. Not I'm protestant or I'm presbytarian or I'm anglican, I'm babtist... anyhow, is Mormon a sect? or is it protestantism? They believe in the apocalypse don't they? Heard they have some sort of stocking places all over the country filled with canned beans and such :D to survive after the apocalypse. Or am I mistaking? Anyhow, I find it very amusing.

Are there other american sorts of protestant an christianity?

Raised as a semi-practicing Jew and with an inexplicable affinity for eastern religion I'm a Jewish-Hindi-Buddhist-psuedomuslim with almost no ceremonial commitments.
wow nice one, your interest in different religions is beautiful (not meant sarcastic, to avoid all misunderstanding)

I am a Sunni Muslim and also a natural-born American. (previously thought to be mutally exclusive)
Now, generally I expect not to have to deal with people calling me a terrorist (though I get more of that paranoid shit daily than anybody should ever have to experience) therefore I won't waste this post with my usual mini-book defense on it. But I will say that we don't all hate Jews. Infact many Israelis aren't Jewish but are infact Bedouin soldiers of fortune. It really has nothing to do with Jews and Muslims. It's about equal rights and having a say about whether or not people can live in their native land without having to be pushed into tiny strips of land that are regulary bulldozed and bombed anyway.

very true, before Israel was founded, Jews, Christians and Muslim always have lived in harmony in Jerusalem. Before the crusades they did to, but when that fuck the Duke of Bourgundy murdered every muslim, and many jews and native christians (they had trouble seeing the difference) at has taken a while before the harmony was restored. And now...many of the orthodox jews want jerusalem for their own, while all three of the great monotheistic religions have an equal right on Jerusalem. "The dome of the rock" for the Muslim, on wich Mohammed ascended to heaven, the city that the Jews conquered from the natives thousands of years ago, and the place where Jesus was crucified. Damn, and I don't consider myself that religious.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=357375

forgot about that thread :p anyhow...feel free to do as you wich

WOOHOO!!! Rock on "other" category!!!

I'm Native American and we have our own rites and believes that tie in with our culture (tribal specific of course) so I guess that would be placed in the "other" category. However, it is a monotheistic religion in which we believe in a "creator" which is practically the equivalent of God. But because of religious ceremonies (usually dances) that praise holy figures like the Corn Mother, people consider it a pagan religion.

I like Christianity fine... its all well and good... in fact, I'm baptized and confirmed. And again, I consider my Native American creator to be the same god I am praising when I attend a Christian church. The only thing that upsets me about Christianity is the Christians themselves who I’ve encountered that espouse strong morals and good will towards men but do not “practice what they preach” as the saying goes. I attended a Christian private school before I was able to escape where I was physically and mentally abused. I received this treatment not for being hateful to the persons of this school and churches (granted, I speak of more then one incident) but because I dressed and looked and viewed things differently. I'm not judging the rest of Christianity, I would hate to become like that... I'm just curious to know if this is an isolated incident (which I suspect it is)...

If a person of a different race and culture, a lower economic status and strong values and behaviors of respect and love for everyone and everything walked into your church, would you automatically judge them as an infidel and cast them aside because they did not appear as wholly a Christian as you?

Atheist, of course. I believe solely in myself. I pity those who would depend on outside sources, although I will not try to stop them.

organized religion freaks me out a bit. I'm aware it can do good things, but I wonder if there's more danger invovled than it's worth. also, I have trouble understanding why someone would pick one religion over another since they all involve a leap of faith (unless you felt tied to a certain religion because of your heritage). therefore, I'm other.

had to pick atheist, but really i'd have to call myself an agnostic atheist. I don't think that anyone of us can ever no for sure whether or not there is a god or whatever else. I mostly think it's all bullshit, but don't want to put a lock on it.

I am confused as to how anyone could be a christian without being either Catholic or Protestant, since any denomination that is not Catholic is by default Protestant.
What about Eastern Orthodox and Greek Orthodox, both Christian both non-Catholic and both very non-Protestant.

Catholic.

Guess

:)


A Satanist....like me. ;)

im hardcore atheist.

you know, it would be interesting to make a "are you religous?" poll for europeans and americans. i have the impression america gets more religous every minute while europe more atheist.

im hardcore atheist.
you know, it would be interesting to make a "are you religous?" poll for europeans and americans. i have the impression america gets more religous every minute while europe more atheist.That may be because Europeans are living in the reality while US-Americans appear more and more to be fleeing from it (maybe due to their self-deception about all the "best nation on earth" crap, and so on).

That may be because Europeans are living in the reality while US-Americans appear more and more to be fleeing from it (maybe due to their self-deception about all the "best nation on earth" crap, and so on). I don't think I try to 'flee from reality'. And I don't believe that 'best nation on earth' either. In some ways, perhaps, but certainly not all.

There is a thread called, "What is Your Religion" already and it has better choices than your's.

Spiritual Satanist.

Agnostic.

Muslim :cool:

... or non-denominational?

And it can get a bit screwy too, Anglicanism is technically a Protestant denomination, but really it's often just Catholicism without the Pope.

I'm orthodox Roman Catholic. Without the Pope and Rome...you're not Catholic...if you want to be Catholic you can always convert

Roman Catholic
Your misguided poll offerings seem to differentiate between Catholic and Christian. This is mistaken as there is no Christianity other than through Christ's Church, the Roman Catholic Church.

extra ecclesiam nulla salus

I'm an atheist.

[QUOTE=Tenete Traditiones]Roman Catholic
Your misguided poll offerings seem to differentiate between Catholic and Christian. This is mistaken as there is no Christianity other than through Christ's Church, the Roman Catholic Church. QUOTE]

Okey, let me clear this up. Anyone who believes Jesus is son of God is a Christian. Christians are made up of 4 primary groups, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Mormons.

In addition, Protestants are made up of numerous branches, Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican (Episcopalian in America), among others, all leading from the break away from the pope during the Protestant Reformation.

Mormonism was created in America and is not tied to the Protestant Reformation led by Martin Luther.

Eastern Orthodox split from the pope a couple hundred years before Luther...the reason being conflict between Rome and Constantinople/Byzantine.



btw, I'm atheist, but I know a bit about religion.

Okey, let me clear this up. Anyone who believes Jesus is son of God is a Christian. Christians are made up of 4 primary groups, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Mormons.

In addition, Protestants are made up of numerous branches, Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican (Episcopalian in America), among others, all leading from the break away from the pope during the Protestant Reformation.

Mormonism was created in America and is not tied to the Protestant Reformation led by Martin Luther.

Eastern Orthodox split from the pope a couple hundred years before Luther...the reason being conflict between Rome and Constantinople/Byzantine.



btw, I'm atheist, but I know a bit about religion.

No. A Christian is a member of Christ's Church. Protestants, Mormons, and the Orthodox are heretics who broke away from Jesus Christ at some point in history and embraced false teachings.

No. A Christian is a member of Christ's Church. Protestants, Mormons, and the Orthodox are heretics who broke away from Jesus Christ at some point in history and embraced false teachings.

Listen, just because you choose to believe that Christ's blessings are exclusive to those who follow papal edict doesn't mean that you need to go around bothering other people about it. The name doesn't matter. If you're right then everyone else is doomed and if you're wrong then anyone can call themself a Christian.

Dinosaurs did exist, men evolved from apes... we have fact and proof. I know still many american Christians refuse to except this.

I consider myself in evangelical Christian stock, one of the most hated groups on this forums next to Republicans and Nazis. That comment is an ignorant assumption that I tire of - that is, that all Christians think that dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to confound us.

As is, yes, I believe dinosaurs existed. I even think the preponderence of evidence points to the universe being millions of years old.

Dead of shock yet? No?

The most important point that Genesis makes in the creation story is that the universe was not just a random coalescence of chemicals, and that life just happened to appear here. The point it makes is that God created. How, whether he literally summoned it in seven days or built it over long eras in accordance to the laws of physics is superfluous - a matter for scientists to debate and discuss. It shows that God made the world, and was involved from the beginning. I'm not going to waste my time debating this either: if you don't believe it, you won't listen to me.

No. A Christian is a member of Christ's Church. Protestants, Mormons, and the Orthodox are heretics who broke away from Jesus Christ at some point in history and embraced false teachings.


So what do you think about Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and *gasp* atheists? ;)

No. A Christian is a member of Christ's Church. Protestants, Mormons, and the Orthodox are heretics who broke away from Jesus Christ at some point in history and embraced false teachings.

People like you also bug me, who hate Jews, and think Protestants and EOs are condemned to Hell. The EO just liked to run their churches without centralized authority, and the Protestants left because at the time the Catholic Church was heinously corrupt. You are a bad example for fellow Catholics (of which I am a confirmed member, with beliefs more in line with evangelical Christian teachings) everywhere in the expounding of these beliefs. Additionally, how you can hate Jews, when Jesus Christ himself was a Jew, is beyond me. If they had not crucified Christ, would the redemption of mankind have worked? Duuuuuhhhh...
You are right on Mormons, however. Polygamy, and the belief that eventually all men become gods someday is certainly wrong.

I am simply following the great Roman Catholic dogma:
extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Outside the Church there is No Salvation!

I am simply following the great Roman Catholic dogma:
extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Outside the Church there is No Salvation!

You really... really don't want me to make a list of the things the Roman Catholic Church has been wrong about.

You really... really don't want me to make a list of the things the Roman Catholic Church has been wrong about.
Please cease the rhetoric and state your claims.

I am simply following the great Roman Catholic dogma:
extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Outside the Church there is No Salvation!

So you take the Church's dogma instead of what Jesus Christ Himself said? "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." Protestants, and EO, if they really take God seriously and consider religion as more than something to tack on to one's life, are just as eligible as you or I for that salvation.

Please cease the rhetoric and state your claims.

Rhetoric is the effective use of language. That is has come to mean speaking without meaning is sad. To lose a good word and further limit the already small vocabulary of the average person today is a tragedy.

Anywho... I'll start with what I consider a good example:

What did the Pope say when Hitler was ravaging Europe and murdering millions of civilians?

You really... really don't want me to make a list of the things the Roman Catholic Church has been wrong about.

Perfectly aware of what the Church has done wrong. Flat earth, indulgences, corruption, aspects of the Crusades, the pedophile priests scandals. You name it, the church has screwed up.
Yet, we are not the only ones. In the name of atheism and using the church for political gains, Hitler killed millions of Jews. Stalin didn't even use the church or any racial scapegoating and killed millions of Russians to make the state god. EVERYONE, EVERY INSTITUTION that lasts more than a century SCREWS UP once in a while.

So you take the Church's dogma instead of what Jesus Christ Himself said? "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." Protestants, and EO, if they really take God seriously and consider religion as more than something to tack on to one's life, are just as eligible as you or I for that salvation.

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Matthew 16:18

"Be it known to you all and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him, this man standeth here before you, whole.
This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12


Let us not forget that sola scriptura is another error of the heretics. Many saints and popes have taught and defended this dogma throughout history and it is still part of Catholic doctrine today, which any Catholic must obey. As you are not Catholic, we will stay away from there.

Perfectly aware of what the Church has done wrong. Flat earth, indulgences, corruption, aspects of the Crusades, the pedophile priests scandals. You name it, the church has screwed up.
Yet, we are not the only ones. In the name of atheism and using the church for political gains, Hitler killed millions of Jews. Stalin didn't even use the church or any racial scapegoating and killed millions of Russians to make the state god. EVERYONE, EVERY INSTITUTION that lasts more than a century SCREWS UP once in a while.
Flat earth? This is not an official Catholic dogma and was never that major an issue. On the other hand the Crusades were very valiant episodes of bravery to conquer the Holy Land for Christ from the Mahometans. Nothing wrong there.

There was never any incident surrounding pedophile priests in the Roman Catholic Church...

Perfectly aware of what the Church has done wrong. Flat earth, indulgences, corruption, aspects of the Crusades, the pedophile priests scandals. You name it, the church has screwed up.
Yet, we are not the only ones. In the name of atheism and using the church for political gains, Hitler killed millions of Jews. Stalin didn't even use the church or any racial scapegoating and killed millions of Russians to make the state god. EVERYONE, EVERY INSTITUTION that lasts more than a century SCREWS UP once in a while.

I am by no means condemning the entire Catholic Church, but no matter how much people hope for it, the Pope simply isn't infallible. Papal edict is nice for the maintainance of a dictatorial heirarchy, but isn't very good at preventing corruption or false judgments. I believe that if the Catholic Church threw out that one little bit of dogma they could become a much stronger religious group.

Flat earth? This is not an official Catholic dogma and was never that major an issue. On the other hand the Crusades were very valiant episodes of bravery to conquer the Holy Land for Christ from the Mahometans. Nothing wrong there.

There was never any incident surrounding pedophile priests in the Roman Catholic Church...

Sometimes your knowledge is astounding... sometimes your ignorance.

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Matthew 16:18

"Be it known to you all and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him, this man standeth here before you, whole.
This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12


Let us not forget that sola scriptura is another error of the heretics. Many saints and popes have taught and defended this dogma throughout history and it is still part of Catholic doctrine today, which any Catholic must obey. As you are not Catholic, we will stay away from there.

Wrong. I am a confirmed Catholic with evangelical philosophy. As in, I take it that God made the world, sent His only Son when we screwed up, and the Son volunteered to die for the vile acts we committed and clear us. The first reference does give Peter authority over the Church. He was a good leader. Yet, King David (of Jesus's line) was a good leader but was followed by a succession of mediocre to just plain bad ones. This is why these other churches split off, because they saw things they didn't like. By splitting off, they forced the Catholic church to reevaluate what it was doing - like the Protestants and the doctrine of indulgences.
And I couldn't agree more with the second verse. It's true, salvation comes from Christ alone. Thats what some Protestants think, and what some EO think. The danger is not from protestants, it's from the people that think of the whole Bible as a pretty allegory full of wise teachings for this life (read: Unitarians); these are the false Christians.

I am by no means condemning the entire Catholic Church, but no matter how much people hope for it, the Pope simply isn't infallible. Papal edict is nice for the maintainance of a dictatorial heirarchy, but isn't very good at preventing corruption or false judgments. I believe that if the Catholic Church threw out that one little bit of dogma they could become a much stronger religious group.
Are you unaware of the power of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages? A time when the strength of the Papacy was at its peak- thus far...

Bahá'í in the house.

agnostic humanist with buddhist leanings.

if i were to pick a religion to follow, it would be buddhism, however i don't know nearly enough to actually call myself one, and the agnostic humanist bit describes my take on a deity.

Flat earth? This is not an official Catholic dogma and was never that major an issue. On the other hand the Crusades were very valiant episodes of bravery to conquer the Holy Land for Christ from the Mahometans. Nothing wrong there.

There was never any incident surrounding pedophile priests in the Roman Catholic Church...

Eh, I meant the Earth not being the center of the universe. That was a mistake.
I said ASPECTS of the Crusades. While the ideal of the Crusades was quite pretty, some of the motives and the things that happened were not at all nice.
On the last bit, I just slap my forehead and sigh...

Eh, I meant the Earth not being the center of the universe. That was a mistake.

the geocentric view of the cosmos? which was made into a big deal at some point by the protestant church, then by the catholics after the protestants accepted it.

the geocentric view of the cosmos? which was made into a big deal at some point by the protestant church, then by the catholics after the protestants accepted it.

No, the Catholic Church did, in fact, persecute early astronomers who declared that the Earth was not the center of the universe. And that was foolish. The biggest "doh!" about that bit is that it wasn't even originally church doctrine - it was Greek science which along the way got integrated into the doctrine of the Church.

Wrong. I am a confirmed Catholic with evangelical philosophy. As in, I take it that God made the world, sent His only Son when we screwed up, and the Son volunteered to die for the vile acts we committed and clear us. The first reference does give Peter authority over the Church. He was a good leader. Yet, King David (of Jesus's line) was a good leader but was followed by a succession of mediocre to just plain bad ones. This is why these other churches split off, because they saw things they didn't like. By splitting off, they forced the Catholic church to reevaluate what it was doing - like the Protestants and the doctrine of indulgences.
And I couldn't agree more with the second verse. It's true, salvation comes from Christ alone. Thats what some Protestants think, and what some EO think. The danger is not from protestants, it's from the people that think of the whole Bible as a pretty allegory full of wise teachings for this life (read: Unitarians); these are the false Christians.
Well if you say you're a Catholic...

"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved." ~Pope Innocent III

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
~Pope Boniface VIII

"Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved." ~Pope Saint Gregory the Great

"It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood." ~Pope Pius IX

"This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church."
~Pope Leo XIII

"It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation."
~Pope Saint Pius X

"Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved."
~Pope Benedict XV

"With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved."
~Pope Innocent III

"Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. ...Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. ...Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. ...[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church." ~Pope Pelagius II

"It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved." ~Pope Gregory XVI

"By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth. ~Pope Pius XII

Are you unaware of the power of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages? A time when the strength of the Papacy was at its peak- thus far...

Wow, the Pope was the most powerful dictator in a Europe full of dictators when he had followers in every country and at all levels of social stature, that certainly is an impressive achievement. You wanna know what the Pope isn't a force on the global political stage any more? It's because of two main things, one, the secularization of Europe, and two, a non-national dictator can no longer compete with democratic nationalists. People are much more willing to fight for a leader they chose than one who was appointed to them.

~Pope Innocent III

~Pope Boniface VIII

~Pope Saint Gregory the Great

~Pope Pius IX

~Pope Leo XIII

~Pope Saint Pius X

~Pope Benedict XV

~Pope Innocent III

~Pope Pelagius II

~Pope Gregory XVI

~Pope Pius XII

Imagine my surprise.

Eh, I meant the Earth not being the center of the universe. That was a mistake.
I said ASPECTS of the Crusades. While the ideal of the Crusades was quite pretty, some of the motives and the things that happened were not at all nice.
On the last bit, I just slap my forehead and sigh...
The geocentric system is correct.
Heliocentricity is a heresy.

The geocentric system is correct.
Heliocentricity is a heresy.

Do a sense a bit of comedy creeping in?

Nope. I'm Jewish too. Kinda of. I used to be conservative (kind of Jewish, in case you goys don't know, j/k), but i don't believe in God.. too irrational of a concept for intellectual mind to grasp :D ....hmm.. i certainly am the provocative type, eh?

No. A Christian is a member of Christ's Church. Protestants, Mormons, and the Orthodox are heretics who broke away from Jesus Christ at some point in history and embraced false teachings.

you are aware that the rituals of catholicism are completely stolen from zoroastrianism, right? and i mean right down to the crosses on your crackers (yes, mithras was supposed to have died that way too... on a hill even)

i suppose you're also aware that the council of nicea also voted on the divinity of jesus?

and that the scriptures started to appear long after this jesus (for whom there are no records) is supposed to have existed?

the people who probably had it closest to the original doctrine were the gnostics. paul was a nutcase...

Well if you say you're a Catholic...

Papal quotes...

And what is modern Church philosophy? Is our current Pope still saying this, and is the current theology of the Church in concordance with this? [I actually am curious if this is the modern stance] If you think the Popes have more authority than Jesus Christ then you are the one with the problem. All I've seen in this debate from you is prideful contention and exclusivity.

To some it up: salvation is achieved through Christ alone. If any person humbles him/herself and asks for it, and let God work change in their souls and lives, they are granted it.

Man, you Christians are creepy when you talk like that :eek: ...

..And the crusades certainly weren't a *cough cough* "pretty" thing....

The geocentric system is correct.
Heliocentricity is a heresy.

how do you explain a large mass (the sun) orbiting a much, much much smaller mass (the earth)? do you care to write your own theory of gravity for that?

how do you explain the existance of a paralax? if the earth was stationary, the paralax wouldn't exist?

how do you explain the phases of venus? if venus did not orbit the sun, we could not view its phases?

how do you explain how mars gets much bigger and smaller at different times of the year?

I voted Catholic.
But Catholics and protestants are both Christians.
*scratches head ove rpoll question*

To some it up: salvation is achieved through Christ alone. If any person humbles him/herself and asks for it, and let God work change in their souls and lives, they are granted it.
Why do you claim Catholicity when your posts are so obviously Protestant in nature?

other: Latter-Day Saint

The geocentric system is correct.
Heliocentricity is a heresy.

If you believe the Earth is the center of the universe, than it's not worth the time to argue with you.

Why do you claim Catholicity when your posts are so obviously Protestant in nature?

Why do you use ad hominem attacks to forward your point? Whats more important to you, fighting Protestants for acts committed hundreds of years ago, which were only pointing out corruption in our church, or fighting atheists who condemn both of us? Or did you net see Whet and Skul's post?

If you believe the Earth is the center of the universe, than it's not worth the time to argue with you.
You reject practically every Catholic doctrine!
You make ridiculous claims blaspheming the Crusades and making up lies about "pedophile sex scandals" and then dare claim to be Catholic.

Why do you use ad hominem attacks to forward your point? Whats more important to you, fighting Protestants for acts committed hundreds of years ago, which were only pointing out corruption in our church, or fighting atheists who condemn both of us? Or did you net see Whet and Skul's post?
When is a heretic not a heretic?

You reject practically every Catholic doctrine!
You make ridiculous claims blaspheming the Crusades and making up lies about "pedophile sex scandals" and then dare claim to be Catholic.
you do realise that the pope has declared that galileo wasn't a heretic, that evolution happened et c.

and how do you address the empirical evidence against a stationary earth?

Truth is the enemy of faith.

The crusades killed people. Not heretics.

An earthly incarnation of an obviously pretentiously grandiose divine idea can never be divine. All humans sin. I believe it's a christian doctrine that we all sin. Then tell me, how can your pope be infallible?

It seems to me that you Christians are more concerned with preserving idealogies that if refuted, may contradict your beliefs, then finding the truth. You praise a religion that glorifies not thinking for yourself. Indeed, thinking for oneself is a crime in catholicism.

Who are you? Are you humans? Do you really need a shepherd?

No.

you do realise that the pope has declared that galileo wasn't a heretic, that evolution happened et c.

No, no pope has ever declared such heresies as evolution to be true or revoke the fact that Galileo was a heretic.

You reject practically every Catholic doctrine!
You make ridiculous claims blaspheming the Crusades and making up lies about "pedophile sex scandals" and then dare claim to be Catholic.

I reject your skewed take on Catholic doctrine. Whats important is what God says, not what humans say.
Fact: Crusaders committed atrocities against people in the Middle East. Why? Because they were men, and were not infallible.
Fact: One of the political motivations for the Crusades was to relieve Europe during a long-term population boom in the upper-class.
Fact: Oh jeez, I'm not going to even go there. Have you been living in a cave for the past couple months? Boston, Priests, scandal, any of that ring a bell?
Fact: you use ad hominem attacks to forward your flimsy arguments. It is illogical and vexing for those you debate and a bad witness.

No, no pope has ever declared such heresies as evolution to be true or revoke the fact that Galileo was a heretic.

Yeah, the humor is creeping back in again. I cannot believe you are serious in these convictions you present.

Discordian Agnostic

No, no pope has ever declared such heresies as evolution to be true or revoke the fact that Galileo was a heretic.
the current pope has. galileo's memory has been tarnish-free (at least from the catholic church) since 1999.

Hail Discordia.

Greetings Pope.

Discordian Agnostic

5 TONS OF FLAX!!!!

ya bastard.

you do realise that the pope has declared that galileo wasn't a heretic, that evolution happened et c.

and how do you address the empirical evidence against a stationary earth?

Yes, I know the Pope has cleared Galileo, but in the past that wasn't the case. As far as evolution goes, only half the theory is true, but that isn't what I'm concerned about here.

Hail Discordia.

Greetings Pope.

"The carrier of this card is a certified pope"

I reject your skewed take on Catholic doctrine. Whats important is what God says, not what humans say.
Fact: Crusaders committed atrocities against people in the Middle East. Why? Because they were men, and were not infallible.
Fact: One of the political motivations for the Crusades was to relieve Europe during a long-term population boom in the upper-class.
Mahometans had savagely mistreated Christians in the Holy Land for centuries. The accusations of sacking cities and other "atrocities" are pure revisionism.
The wars were necessary to recover it from the savages. The second we tried the peaceful route, we lost the sacred land again.
Fact: Oh jeez, I'm not going to even go there. Have you been living in a cave for the past couple months? Boston, Priests, scandal, any of that ring a bell?
Present some facts please, or dismiss your claim.
Fact: you use ad hominem attacks to forward your flimsy arguments. It is illogical and vexing for those you debate and a bad witness.
I never used ad hominem attacks. Its become quite a catch phrase when one is losing an argument to cry "ad hominem." Please substantiate.

No, no pope has ever declared such heresies as evolution to be true or revoke the fact that Galileo was a heretic.

It's obvious now what TT is. Extreme Vatican I Catholic, where as I'm Conservative Vatican II Catholic.

Haha, I didn't know there were many adherants to the true lie!

the current pope has. galileo's memory has been tarnish-free (at least from the catholic church) since 1999.
No. Please present facts.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text12-13-2002-32115.asp

TT, where the hell have you been?

There is your evidence.

Haha, I didn't know there were many adherants to the true lie!

Only in a place like this will you find such a high concentration.

I searched the late night bowling alleys, but alas, in vain.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text12-13-2002-32115.asp

TT, where the hell have you been?

There is your evidence.

That article refers to a situation occurring in the Church of the Novus Ordo.
We are discussing the Roman Catholic Church here.

Haha, I didn't know there were many adherants to the true lie!

It's nice to hear from fellow FnOrDians after having lived in the bible belt for so long.

I've been legally ordained since '97.

Mahometans had savagely mistreated Christians in the Holy Land for centuries. The accusations of sacking cities and other "atrocities" are pure revisionism.
The wars were necessary to recover it from the savages. The second we tried the peaceful route, we lost the sacred land again.

Present some facts please, or dismiss your claim.

I never used ad hominem attacks. Its become quite a catch phrase when one is losing an argument to cry "ad hominem." Please substantiate.

Don't even try to put on an air of "winning." The second you denied the scandal in Boston, said the Earth was the center of the universe, and put the Popes as more authoritative than the Son of God, you ruined your case. The Mahometans had savagely mistreated Christians? That, I did not know. Thank you for making me aware of that, though I shall still take that with a grain of salt. Calling Muslims savages is a little more off-color though. They are lost men, tricked into believing the lies of the evil one, just as you or I were before being shown the truth.

Don't even try to put on an air of "winning." The second you denied the scandal in Boston, said the Earth was the center of the universe, and put the Popes as more authoritative than the Son of God, you ruined your case. The Mahometans had savagely mistreated Christians? That, I did not know. Thank you for making me aware of that, though I shall still take that with a grain of salt. Calling Muslims savages is a little more off-color though. They are lost men, tricked into believing the lies of the evil one, just as you or I were before being shown the truth.

I think you may Novus Ordo Protestant.

TT, explain the Novus ordo.

And how is it different from the catholic church?

I think you may Novus Ordo Protestant.

If we're switching to direct attacks and bizarre pseudo-flames, I think you are a deluded and overly prideful name-caller, the type of person who would get along well with Pharisees. You would put Mel Gibson off-color with the extremity of your Vatican I beliefs.

The world would be a much better place if everyone just followed this religion. (http://red.batcave.net) ;)

If religion causes so many problems, what makes you think a different religion will solve them, noted you were joking, but the response stands.

No. Please present facts.

One of the first steps of John Paul's papacy, which began in 1978, was to begin procedures leading to the rehabilitation in 1992 of Galileo, the Italian astronomer persecuted by the Church for teaching that the Earth revolved around the sun.
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/71.htm

And chew on this, TT, while you're at it. (http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp)
Unless Catholic.com is part of this Novus Ordo you're babbling on about.

TT, explain the Novus ordo.

And how is it different from the catholic church?
In 1958, upon the death of Pope Pius XII, staunch anti-communist Cardinal Siri was elected Pope Gregory XVII. In response, a rival communist faction of French bishops vetoed his election and decided on an Italian communist, Angelo Roncalli as their antipope. Siri was rejected and John XXIII seized power in the conclave. Within a few years, the communistic church would became known by their crowning achievement, the Novus Ordo Missae, an attack on the Catholic Mass that made Luther's service look saintly. The Novus Ordo Church grew out of this movement, doing away with everything that made a Catholic Catholic.
Of course it is much more complex than that but the point is that the Catholic Church has been in a state of sede vacante since 1958.

And chew on this, TT, while you're at it. (http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp)
Unless Catholic.com is part of this Novus Ordo you're babbling on about.
Um, that article refers to the "catechism of the catholic church," a guide to the novus ordo. I suggest getting yourself a copy of the real Roman Catechism.

With openly follow Christ, but believe it was God's plan for evolution and the big bang ect. to happen :D.

~The World Empire

One of the first steps of John Paul's papacy, which began in 1978, was to begin procedures leading to the rehabilitation in 1992 of Galileo, the Italian astronomer persecuted by the Church for teaching that the Earth revolved around the sun.
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/71.htm
Why are you all so confused between Catholic and Novus Ordo? Karol Wojityla is a Polish Jew and the current left-wing leader of the Novus Ordo Church.

And chew on this, TT, while you're at it. (http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp)
Unless Catholic.com is part of this Novus Ordo you're babbling on about.

My guess is he's talking about these people:

http://www.newadvent.org/

The difference? Don't know.

Um, that article refers to the "catechism of the catholic church," a guide to the novus ordo. I suggest getting yourself a copy of the real Roman Catechism.

So catholic.com is a mouthpiece of the Novus Ordo? Right. And John Kerry has a firm and immovable set of core beliefs guiding his campaign.
Do you have any evidence of this Novus Ordo other than conspiracy sites? Because I and a few others have furnished links. How about you actually cough up some that are actually legitimate?

Thanks. May I interest you in a handy guide to discordia? Our heaven is totally better.

duh.

My guess is he's talking about these people:

http://www.newadvent.org/

The difference? Don't know.
What people?

Thanks. May I interest you in a handy guide to discordia? Our heaven is totally better.

duh.

For now. Just wait and see what happens when we get comfortable and relax. She is a capricious little wench.

-May Eris ride w/ you. Just not in the same car.

So catholic.com is a mouthpiece of the Novus Ordo? Right. And John Kerry has a firm and immovable set of core beliefs guiding his campaign.
Do you have any evidence of this Novus Ordo other than conspiracy sites? Because I and a few others have furnished links. How about you actually cough up some that are actually legitimate?
A heretic cannot be pope. This is commonly known.

The Novus Ordo Missae is a disgusting piece of nonsense. Everything once considered Catholic has been destroyed. Vatican II was supposedly a pastoral council but it ended up destroying the structure of the Church, completely changing it with disastrous consequences.

God save us! I found the NO Watch Website, and it appears they think our current Pope is part of the conspiracy!
http://www.novusordowatch.org/

TT is probably the site's webmaster, the madness he is talking about is almost copy-and-paste. Thus, it makes it so that only true Catholic among us is TT - he is more authoritative than the current Pope! Convenient, to say the least.

My internet is dieing, so I must depart, though I wouldn't have wanted to debate the illogical fallacies of TT much longer anyway.

Why are you all so confused between Catholic and Novus Ordo? Karol Wojityla is a Polish Jew and the current left-wing leader of the Novus Ordo Church.

I'm not confused, you're just an idiot.

How can you say that the pope isn't a good catholic? A good catholic cares. A good Catholic belives in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. An extreamly good catholic give to cgarity or does anything they can to help. A good catholic doesn't try to meddle in the affairs of others. A good catholic believes that no-one is worthless, and that every life is worth more than the riches of the world. A good catholic is a little more like the pope. I mean come on! How many popes actually got off their arses and actually did something to change the world in some way? None of them, except the current one. He's not perfect but you can't get anyone perfect around here.

And don't even ask "how would you know what a good catholic is like?" being a catholic who goes to St Angela's Ursuline Convet School (do a google search for it) would probably know a thing or two on how a good catholic should behave.

God save us! I found the NO Watch Website, and it appears they think our current Pope is part of the conspiracy!
http://www.novusordowatch.org/

TT is probably the site's webmaster, the madness he is talking about is almost copy-and-paste. Thus, it makes it so that only true Catholic among us is TT - he is more authoritative than the current Pope! Convenient, to say the least.

Well, thank you for discovering Novus Ordo Watch on your own. It is an invaluable resource to the Catholic community. I am not the websmaster, but the archive is updated frequently several times each week. They keep you up to date on the most recent abominations occurring in the Novus Ordo.

How can you say that the pope isn't a good catholic? A good catholic cares. A good Catholic belives in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. An extreamly good catholic give to cgarity or does anything they can to help. A good catholic doesn't try to meddle in the affairs of others. A good catholic believes that no-one is worthless, and that every life is worth more than the riches of the world. A good catholic is a little more like the pope. I mean come on! How many popes actually got off their arses and actually did something to change the world in some way? None of them, except the current one. He's not perfect but you can't get anyone perfect around here.
So if everyone just is a good person, everyone is saved and all the world can all dance around in feathers in Fatima?
WRONG!
Antipope John Paul II has done nothing but continue the destruction of deceived Catholics like yourself and Arizona. Your analysis of what it means to be a good Catholic pushes God to the side and focuses on man- much like the Novus Ordo Missae.

And don't even ask "how would you know what a good catholic is like?" being a catholic who goes to St Angela's Ursuline Convet School (do a google search for it) would probably know a thing or two on how a good catholic should behave.
Wow. You go to a Novus Ordo school that provides opportunities for developing "a spirit of tolerance, understanding and respect for other cultures, traditions and faiths?!" (http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/stangela/) Have they heard not of the Catholic doctrine extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
The school is not even run by nuns!