NationStates Jolt Archive

Change One thing that happend before 1954 and I will try and come up with a alternate history.

Woo! I inspired a thread!(I think)

The Japanese never bomb pearl harbor and concentrate their efforts on the Russian front

Adlai Stevenson beats Eisenhower in the election

( i could use a different situation that leads up to this conclusion but i want this specifically)

the roman empire doesnt collapse and they go on to dominate Europe/Africa/Asia

Henry Anslinger choose to be a farmer as young.

Change One thing that happend before 1954 and I will try and come up with a alternate history

Hmm.. you're parents were never born?

Hitler never declared war on the US.

Woo! I inspired a thread!(I think)

The Japanese never bomb pearl harbor and concentrate their efforts on the Russian front
The U.S stays out of it at first so now its round 1944 and England Is Halfed In People The Russains are holding their owner but the germans finnaly being able to handle the cold so the russains are losing ground Hitler Betrays The Italains and kill there leader Musalin i think Japan Has Discoverd a hidden restiacne at homebase and chrushs it. the french are fighting the germans and geting thhir butts kicked, meanwhile america is still in a depression which its pulling out of and people are begining to think their in trouble america starts stockpiling weapons,this goes on for 2 years and a massive restiance inculding most of what japan has taken over is fighting, America Is attacked by germany which now controls russai and britan is dead and gone its pretty much a US Vs. World sich but we make allies out of the Spanish And A small number of countrys in africa. We strike back and we fly over most of germany bombing them and they hit a nuclear weapons factory which germany says is a civilain building on which we are droping nukes the Mexicans are trying to stick it to the japaness and the itallains are revolting, well thats all I got so far.

the atomic weapon was never invented-thousands of japanese lives spared, but WW2 goes on for a 2 more years to finally defeat them. god only knows what outcome would be on war on terror today.

Hitler never declared war on the US.
nothing we declared war on them

Shakespeare decided to become a glover :D

Hmm.. you're parents were never born?nope not within the time space and no, no killing my Grandparents.

nothing we declared war on them
Wrong. Look up the declaration of war (two in a day)...

R. CHARGE D'AFFAIRES:

The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression.

On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearney and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German sub-marines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that-American destroyers attacked German submarines.

Furthermore, the naval forces of the United States, under order of their Government and contrary to international law have treated and seized German merchant vessels on the high seas as enemy ships.

The German Government therefore establishes the following facts:

Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.

The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.

Accept, Mr. Charge d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.

December 11, 1941.

RIBBENTROP.

US response
To the Congress of the United States:

On the morning of Dec. 11 the Government of Germany, pursuing its course of world conquest, declared war against the United States. The long-known and the long-expected has thus taken place. The forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemisphere. Never before has there been a greater challenge to life, liberty and civilization. Delay invites great danger. Rapid and united effort by all of the peoples of the world who are determined to remain free will insure a world victory of the forces of justice and of righteousness over the forces of savagery and of barbarism. Italy also has declared war against the United States. I therefore request the Congress to recognize a state of war between the United States and Germany, and between the United States and Italy. Franklin D. Roosevelt

The War Resolution

Declaring that a state of war exists between the Government of Germany and the government and the people of the United States and making provision to prosecute the same. Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the government and the people of the United States of America:

Therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States

OOC: Hitler revered the Italian Dictator, almost like a god, slightly disgusted by his acts of not wanting to control the remaining portion of Northern Italy.
*So my best guess is Hitler would not kill him, even if the US didn't intervene at this time.

OOC: The German Army was not suited, weapons or supplies, to fight the Russians, just as the Japanese would not be able to do as much in the Northern Front, China held a fierce resistance and controling non-US held pacific islands that Austrilia and the U.K. held would have probably kept them from achieveing any success against Gen. Zhukov in the Russian East (where he was positioned until after the US joined the war and was moved to the Western Front to chase the Germans out of Russia.
*Bet that Japan would fail and collaspe upon itself, its oil supply from the Northern China would fail as it was else where with just the Chinese/Pacific Campaign.

Ermm, the British won the American Revolutionary War.

Henry Anslinger choose to be a farmer as young.


i bet then cannabis would be an industry that rivals beer :)

generating billions of dollars and creating thousands of jobs, etc.

Virgin mary has twins boy and girl

Shakespeare decided to become a glover :D
A less poems and no to be or not to be.

Ermm, the British won the American Revolutionary War.
France remains a monarchy, Birtan has a huge civil war around 1855 and breaks up into 4 factions The White Britsh (northern Britan) The Black Britsh (africa) Blue Britan (All Eastern Control The Britsh Has By This Point)
Red Britan (Southern Britan the isleand), The Black Britsh are Pushing the black objective and other stuff like healthcare, White britan doesn't want to change jack, The Red Britsh Leaders are sedcuded by french women and are now basicly controled by them, Blue Britan Is hoping to make a republic out of Britan, The Bloody Resulting war results in Millions of deaths, mainlyWithe And Red Britsh death. In The end Black Britan Wins, Do to Massive Over Numbering. I will get back to this.
I am sure their were other qualifining Groups of colonies but I couldn't find any.

Virgin mary has twins boy and girl
Jesus's sister preachs like crazy and christainty huge by40 A.D. she Is The first catholic saint and departs from earth 100 A.D.

Nixon was never linked to Watergate.

Jesus is not crucified(or killed in any way by anyone)

The first civilizations invented a disease that would only allow pink people with scales to live creating everyone making fun of one another!

The first civilizations invented a disease that would only allow pink people with scales to live creating everyone making fun of one another!
micro biology discoverd in 4000 BC

I'll give you a few.

-Trotsky, not Stalin, assumes control of the Soviet Union.

-D-Day invasion pushed back two years.

-Canada has a large, well trained military and resources that the US requires...

You are good at this. but you forgot the obvious answer (everyone would be pink with scales) lol.

I am going to sleep I will be back at eight AM

Jesus is not crucified(or killed in any way by anyone)
argh I woke up too early.
Life would suck

Jesus is not crucified(or killed in any way by anyone)
Damn... I wanted this one

- Hitler stuck to painting
- Rome stood against the Hordes; The Roman Empire survived

I'll give you a few.

-Trotsky, not Stalin, assumes control of the Soviet Union.

-D-Day invasion pushed back two years.

-Canada has a large, well trained military and resources that the US requires...
1. Um Let me look that up.
2/ Pushed back In time to years or forward.
3. welll we certainly would bend over and obey them I mean think about it, we are america here since w normally have a way of things are the candains freindly or hostile.

Damn... I wanted this one
- Rome stood against the Hordes; The Roman Empire survived
doubt that seriously oh yeah and by the way the world religon would be Islam.

doubt that seriously oh yeah and by the way the world religon would be Islam.
It's not about likelyness, it's about events occurring differently.

No Christianity: is that a bad thing?

Here's one:

Einstein is killed while trying to escape Germany. All his notes are lost.

Jesus was never born in the first place (should be interesting!)

Here's one, but it might be a bit more obscure than most:

Suleiman the Magnificant, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, takes Vienna in the 1529 siege.

I know you didn't have time to respond to my other one yet, but I wanted to post these before I forgot:

1. (you seem well educated in religous history, sorry if it's too much of a curve-ball) Pope Innocent VI begins recieving news about witchcraft in France and Germany. Instead of sending two Dominicans to investigate, he sends two Jesuits.

2. George Lucas is killed by Trekkies in 1995. Episode One never makes it to the big screen.

If jesus hadnt been born then there would have been no catholic church which meant that a lot of empires in the dark ages/post - rome wpuld have collapsed plus the possible remaining prevalence of polytheistic religions... just to name a few

Here's one:

Einstein is killed while trying to escape Germany. All his notes are lost.
It takes another 50 years for sceintist to discover the stuff Enstine did. which Involved the Atmob Bomb the threoy of relitivty and something else I forget so the bomb of heroshima never hapens and we lose 50,000 soilders getting japan to surrender.

I know you didn't have time to respond to my other one yet, but I wanted to post these before I forgot:

1. (you seem well educated in religous history, sorry if it's too much of a curve-ball) Pope Innocent VI begins recieving news about witchcraft in France and Germany. Instead of sending two Dominicans to investigate, he sends two Jesuits.
I will get back too you when I have time to research both the orders and the event late this evning probably.

2. George Lucas is killed by Trekkies in 1995. Episode One never makes it to the big screen.
Fans woukd weep then get over it.

What happens if Napoléon won the Battle of Waterloo and won the British Empire? Vive la France?

Charles Babbage's differnece engine (it is form of a computer) is made?

I will get back too you when I have time to research both the orders and the event late this evning probably.

Don't worry about it. But I'll give you a head-start if you really want to research this: Pope Innocent VI is pretty much the guy blamed for the Inquisition. Those two Dominicans wrote The Mallius Malficarum (translation: Dummy's Guide To Witchcraft).

Don't worry about it. But I'll give you a head-start if you really want to research this: Pope Innocent VI is pretty much the guy blamed for the Inquisition. Those two Dominicans wrote The Mallius Malficarum (translation: Dummy's Guide To Witchcraft).
well if this thread calms down I'll make an aternate history for you thanks.

nothing we declared war on them

Hitler declared war on the US at Japans urging, thinking that the Americans would concentrate on the Pacific, but Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to help out in Europe first

What happens if Napoléon won the Battle of Waterloo and won the British Empire? Vive la France??
to start he gets ansy and takes over spain if this hasn't already acured he trys to claim back the purchase and loses millions don't forget their Was tons of sickness his low soilder level has bad timing and The US attacks out numbering him 2 to one we beat france due to britsh Insurganicies and we offer the option to join the US nobody takes us up on it however. :( Um thats it so far they become britan and spain again

Hitler declared war on the US at Japans urging, thinking that the Americans would concentrate on the Pacific, but Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to help out in Europe first
Ok well we declare war on them, they are the freinds of The enemys.

Britain and germany were allies during the first world war.

the other side won during the american civil war.

The Byzantine empire was nether beater by the turks

the other side won during the american civil war.

Communism In some like entirely liberal state like is conservativ texas germany wins ww1.

The Byzantine empire was nether beater by the turks
Um say what.

Britain and germany were allies during the first world war.

um I will get back to you when I know the size of the britsh army to the exact number.

Um say what.

sorry .
better said.

The eastern Roman empire was never beaten by the Turkish.

OH I'VE GOT A GOOD ONE!!!


THE jews never made it out of ancient egypt!

If the Darien Project (1695-1705) had suceeded?

OH I'VE GOT A GOOD ONE!!!


THE jews never made it out of ancient egypt!

The americans are backing the muslim Palestina against the jewish aggresive middle east states. :P

sorry .
better said.

The eastern Roman empire was never beaten by the Turkish.
The goths beat it. ask the web not me about the goths

If the Darien Project (1695-1705) had suceeded?
huh? I loked on the web. it wasn't their whats the project.

huh? I loked on the web. it wasn't their whats the project.

Thought you might not, so I got this:

the Darien project – an ambitious plan to create a New Scotland in Central America, which failed dramatically, leading, many historians believe, to the union with England in 1707.

In the late 1690s, 4,000 Scots – funded by around half of the country's wealth - set sail for the Darien isthmus of Panama, which they believed could be a key land link between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans; a kind of 17th century prototype to its modern day equivalent, the Panama Canal.

The aim was to set up a wealthy Scots colony – pivotal to global trading – but within two years the dream was over with half of the colonists dead. And Scotland itself was bankrupted.

Many experts believe the financial ramifications led directly to the union, out of economic necessity, with England in 1707.

The Darien venture had to be one of the boldest bids of its time, to set up a new colony – the basis for a new country – where the jungle was and still is the king.

On one level it was complete folly to put so much of Scotland's hopes for the future in one basket, but in another way you can see what Paterson was trying to achieve and the strategic significance of the area meant it did have the potential to become an incredibly rich trading centre.

If Darien had succeeded, it could have led to a very different course for British history.

Scotland may have remained independent with the possibility that the United Kingdom would never have been created.

the likelihood of success was always slim as the Spanish believed they owned the area, which was their main gold trading route, and were determined not to let the Scots get hold of it.

Untypically the English were at peace with Spain – for the first time in 30 years – and would offer no assistance to the colonists.

In 2003 archeologists found examples of Spanish warfare at the site suggesting the Spanish assault on the fledgling colony was fiercer than had been previously thought.

The absolute fatal flaw in the whole expedition was that Paterson and others had not realised just how key this bit of land was to the Spanish because this was where all the gold and silver from South America was funnelled through.

If they allowed the Scots into Darien then the Spanish Empire would have collapsed.

The early collapse of the Spanish Empire! The British Empire never existing! All those thousands of Scots who wouldn't have emigrated to north America, and instead gone to central america! The project would have had huge significance if it had not failed.

Yet very few have ever heard of it, and there is very little written of it.

I know of it as I'm Scottish, and it resulted in the loss of our independence. The Scots don't like to talk about it though, so no one has really studied it that closely. As far as I know there have been only two significant archeological investigations, in 1979 and 2003.

Ancient Israel never collapsed into 2 empires (Israel and Judea) and stuck with it's religion, as well as the ancient powers (Persia, Rome, Greece and such) for some reason decided to ignore them.

about the jesuit question They would have reccomend vigilance to But no more and would have placed rules as what a wicth can do ect. and the inquistion never would have happend burn being in appropriate would be rare most of time custody and interogation as a demon whorshiper is likely to be boastful or Perfectly silent If they start crying they are still human and theirfore Innocent. When a man is still a man he may be forgiven.

Thought you might not, so I got this:

the Darien project – an ambitious plan to create a New Scotland in Central America, which failed dramatically, leading, many historians believe, to the union with England in 1707.

In the late 1690s, 4,000 Scots – funded by around half of the country's wealth - set sail for the Darien isthmus of Panama, which they believed could be a key land link between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans; a kind of 17th century prototype to its modern day equivalent, the Panama Canal.

The aim was to set up a wealthy Scots colony – pivotal to global trading – but within two years the dream was over with half of the colonists dead. And Scotland itself was bankrupted.

Many experts believe the financial ramifications led directly to the union, out of economic necessity, with England in 1707.

The Darien venture had to be one of the boldest bids of its time, to set up a new colony – the basis for a new country – where the jungle was and still is the king.

On one level it was complete folly to put so much of Scotland's hopes for the future in one basket, but in another way you can see what Paterson was trying to achieve and the strategic significance of the area meant it did have the potential to become an incredibly rich trading centre.

If Darien had succeeded, it could have led to a very different course for British history.

Scotland may have remained independent with the possibility that the United Kingdom would never have been created.

the likelihood of success was always slim as the Spanish believed they owned the area, which was their main gold trading route, and were determined not to let the Scots get hold of it.

Untypically the English were at peace with Spain – for the first time in 30 years – and would offer no assistance to the colonists.

In 2003 archeologists found examples of Spanish warfare at the site suggesting the Spanish assault on the fledgling colony was fiercer than had been previously thought.

The absolute fatal flaw in the whole expedition was that Paterson and others had not realised just how key this bit of land was to the Spanish because this was where all the gold and silver from South America was funnelled through.

If they allowed the Scots into Darien then the Spanish Empire would have collapsed.
The gobal trade bring soctland to a new height of power Hires a group of warriors to fight under a new kind of tatics called Camp Cave A virtual forrtres is errect subtle defenses Their are no gates but as the Mercs are siting in their spots with rations shot the men coming down as the slow moving spainsh try and figure out why their men didn't go to the Places as ordered ambushes are staged with the men dragged away at as many places as possible, Inculding a faked letter written by a non-existaning Britsh comander as war breaks out in euro the men the mercs quickly do away with the spainsh as soctland smuggles its leaders out.A world power to rivall any country by 1777 america is begining its wars only now its against a weak britan which nearly runs out of power and scotland falls in and takes over. The world is falling apart as the Scot-brits are signing a non-aggresion pact.

Ancient Israel never collapsed into 2 empires (Israel and Judea) and stuck with it's religion, as well as the ancient powers (Persia, Rome, Greece and such) for some reason decided to ignore them.
Israils power gets reved up a rebblion of secret follows of the egpytians religon try and strike down the people of Isreall a minor neighbor nation and nearly destroyed,rebuild takes man years and aRome Is seeing the newly rebuilt Isreal as a Province and the newly rebuilt Israel is again thrashed from their it continues as per the books

The Virgin Mary admits she's not a virgin, her son was never revered as God's son, went on to become a poor carpenter because he had to live with the shame of his mother's lost virginity, and never preached a day in his life.

Christianity is non-existant, the Crusades never occured, most people of good standing are Jewish, and Hitler grew up to be a well adjusted diplomat and beloved orator with a wife, three kids, and a male lover on the side.

Adlai Stevenson beats Eisenhower in the election

( i could use a different situation that leads up to this conclusion but i want this specifically)

Good one, Chess Squares.

Let's see...

Patton is allowed to continue advancing east and stop the Soviets, rather than withdraw west.

ah heck I'm bored, revive bump used.

What if the Huns never got restless and never pushed into Europe? The Huns westward push is the main reason that Germanic tribes like the Vandals and the Goths pushed into the Roman Empire.

What if the Huns never got restless and never pushed into Europe? The Huns westward push is the main reason that Germanic tribes like the Vandals and the Goths pushed into the Roman Empire.
hum as some people see ir roman was falling apart already so I'll start
As the vandal and goth raiding parteis enter rome and pilage and sack rome attempts to concentrate it self the failure results in a number of ships that eventually end up in america and create a colony but that won't be intresting for awhile cus I'm losing my train of thought be back in awhile

I think the smallest thing you could change and make the biggest impact would be if no one believed Jesus.

I think the smallest thing you could change and make the biggest impact would be if no one believed Jesus.
yeah and that would be a damn shame..

What is the Neanderthals stayed around?

Mexico wins the Texas Revolutionary war and reinforces settlement in its northern territories, so that by 1850 they still remain firmly Mexican.

The goths beat it. ask the web not me about the goths
That was the western roman empire.

That was the western roman empire.
oh well then I don't know.

First Impact never wipes out the dinosaurs.

Mexico wins the Texas Revolutionary war and reinforces settlement in its northern territories, so that by 1850 they still remain firmly Mexican.
I'm a texan so I have read a lot about this but will have to get back to you.

What is the Neanderthals stayed around?

They did for a long time anyway.
More people would have ginger hair, large physique and general physiological adaption to the cold.
Other than that there would be little difference.

Sigh...
The Byzantines hold on to their empire and the Eastern Orthodox Church remains a very strong counterweight to the Roman Catholic Church of the west, and both churches reunite in the late 1000's, creating a combinded Church that has religious sway over most of the European world. The combinded Church launches a massive set of crucades in the name of the Lord to retake the old Byzantine lands, and beat back the Islamic Turks in the Holy Land. England becomes part of a Viking Empire in the North, as it is never invaded by the Normans, and America is colonized by benevolent (relatively) Vikings in late 1200's and rules over the area mutually with the Iroquois.

um I will get back to you when I know the size of the britsh army to the exact number.

180,000 soldiers in 1914 made up the BEF. But Britain allying with Germany (or just not with France) has severe repercussions on the war.

180,000 soldiers in 1914 made up the BEF. But Britain allying with Germany (or just not with France) has severe repercussions on the war.
I doubt the French would have been able to defend themselves in that case...

I doubt the French would have been able to defend themselves in that case...

180,000 is pittance in 1914 Europe, the BEF played a veyr important role, but there isn't anything that suggests without the initial BEF that France would have fell (After all, it was barely a Corps and Half in strength equivalence of it's French counterpart). But once you get to 1915 and later, the British Army increased drastically, and took a large part of the French line over for themselves. Even of more importance was Britain's blockade of Germany, which brought it to it's knees just as much as the Western Front's ever constant drain did.

180,000 is pittance in 1914 Europe, the BEF played a veyr important role, but there isn't anything that suggests without the initial BEF that France would have fell (After all, it was barely a Corps and Half in strength equivalence of it's French counterpart). But once you get to 1915 and later, the British Army increased drastically, and took a large part of the French line over for themselves. Even of more importance was Britain's blockade of Germany, which brought it to it's knees just as much as the Western Front's ever constant drain did.
I was more referring to the later years of the war, 1916-1918, they wouldn't have been able to hold the line without British troops, say nothing of if they had to defend against British attacks in their rear. They almost lost the war in 1918 during that last push even with American and British help.

the US sides with Germany in WW2

I was more referring to the later years of the war, 1916-1918, they wouldn't have been able to hold the line without British troops, say nothing of if they had to defend against British attacks in their rear. They almost lost the war in 1918 during that last push even with American and British help.

Ah, I see, then I definitely agree (well, maybe not with your comment about Kaiserschlacht, but that's going OT).

the US sides with Germany in WW2
Wouldn't happen.

the US sides with Germany in WW2

If the situation changed so much that the US would side with Nazi Germany in WW2, I don't think anyone can accurately predict what would happen, becuase that is a hell of a stretch. A WWI US/German Alliance could've happened, but a WW2 one is extremely out there, like Singapore being the first to the moon.

The death of the Great Khan is delayed allowing the Mongol Hordes to sweep through Europe, the great castles and keeps being smashed by Chinese engineers.

WWI never happens.

The Native American tribes unify following their first encounters w/ Europeans, recognizing the threat.

The Norman invasion of Britian fails.

Also, Jesus becomes a carpenter.

If the situation changed so much that the US would side with Nazi Germany in WW2, I don't think anyone can accurately predict what would happen, becuase that is a hell of a stretch. A WWI US/German Alliance could've happened, but a WW2 one is extremely out there, like Singapore being the first to the moon.

ahh i see but things as einstien dying and hilter never reaching power are ok?
....... Germany wins WW2

Henry V never dies before taking the French Throne.

stalin doesn't stop in berlin......

ahh i see but things as einstien dying and hilter never reaching power are ok?
....... Germany wins WW2

Well... yeah, becuase that is only changing one event, such as Hitler dying, or Einstein, having the US ally with Nazi Germany requires an entirely new scenario to be implemented.