NationStates Jolt Archive

I've spent a great amount of time on the internet and in posting boards recently, and I've noticed that a large number of posts are practically incomprehensible due to lack of punctuation, poor spelling, no capitalization, or extremely bad grammar. Now while I'm willing to admit that I am a bit of "grammar nazi", it seems that this trend of illiterate literacy is getting out of hand.

So is it laziness, a lack of understanding, or am I just silly for caring?

I've spent a great amount of time on the internet and in posting boards recently, and I've noticed that a large number of posts are practically incomprehensible due to lack of punctuation, poor spelling, no capitalization, or extremely bad grammar. Now while I'm willing to admit that I am a bit of "grammar nazi", it seems that this trend of illiterate literacy is getting out of hand.

So is it laziness, a lack of understanding, or am I just silly for caring?
Laziness. I get lazy and don't bother to capitalize or punctuate properly.

U r stoopid fer thinkin that we has bad gramer on foruums.

I know what you mean. Is it so hard to type a complete sentence using correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation? It should come automatically, or at least it comes to me automatically. You have no idea how much effort I put into typing that sentence at the beginning of my post. And it still probably isn't as bad as it could be.

For me at least, I more often than not type a post in a forum without capitalization, and then before I post, go back through it and capitalize everything. I think it's the direct result of using AIM so much. I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi myself though, at least in some cases (spelling). It doesn't bother me when people don't capitalize, but I try not to do it when posting. On AIM, anything goes. Emails...depends on who the email is to and what it is about. When writing a paper or essay for school, everything's got to be perfect for me! :)

Ok, I'm just rambling...

I think it may have more to do with just not caring than laziness...With the worst posts, anyway.
I can read horribly written posts fine, but sometimes they annoy me. "I kannott spel as gud as ue" would not bother me, but "I cant spel s gud s u" might. Extra punctuation would make it worse. "I cant spel,..s gud s u!!!!!"

guammer smammer. i dont need nos tinkinn guammer wadu talginab oud

At last! I thought I was the only grammar fiend in the forum...

The general standard on the Internet is appalling, mostly because people are lazy and can't be bothered to even check their posts. If people genuinely can't spell is one thing, but simply not caring is deplorable.

Imagine what the forum would be like if every poorly written post were removed... :-)

you need to get over it

if its READABLE thats all that matters

some people aren't native english speakers, to go over every tiny bit of text would be a burden on them

some people have handicaps that make typing an incredible chore.

its kinder to overlook people's typos than to make a huge thing out of this

this is just a message board its not the encyclopedia eh?

People all over the world use this forum, so not everyone speaks English as a first language.

[QUOTE=Asheria]At last! I thought I was the only grammar fiend in the forum...

The general standard on the InternetX is appalling, mostly because people are lazy and can't be bothered to even check their posts. If people genuinely can't spell is one thing, but simply not caring is deplorable.

Imagine what the forum would be like if every poorly written post were removed... :-)

You recieve 7/10
redo your work and right it out ohh.. 1000 times

What about all the native English speakers who have graduated from high school? :P They should at least know *how* ... But that's just me.

kthxbye :sniper:

I know what you mean. Is it so hard to type a complete sentence using correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation? It should come automatically, or at least it comes to me automatically.

Indeed. How hard can it be to make one's post at least somewhat understandable?

I've spent a great amount of time on the internet and in posting boards recently, and I've noticed that a large number of posts are practically incomprehensible due to lack of punctuation, poor spelling, no capitalization, or extremely bad grammar. Now while I'm willing to admit that I am a bit of "grammar nazi", it seems that this trend of illiterate literacy is getting out of hand.

So is it laziness, a lack of understanding, or am I just silly for caring?


You should have made it a poll - I would have voted for you're silly.

There are many on the forum who do not speak english as their first language. There are also some who may not type well, along with those without a complete education. (maybe still getting it)

Also, some threads move too fast for anything more than 'first drafts' - annd others lack the time to provide more than that.

Last of all - it is a discussion forum - not an essay contest! It is casual and in the context there is no room for anyone to go through a post with a red pen.

I do, however, feel that there are some posts that are so bad to be redeemable. As a general rule - if the grammar/spelling is so bad you can't make sense of it then it is open game - blast with both barrels!

some people aren't native english speakers, to go over every tiny bit of text would be a burden on themMost horribly written posts I've seen were written by people who are native English speakers.
its kinder to overlook people's typos than to make a huge thing out of thisI didn't think we're talking about simple typos.
this is just a message board its not the encyclopedia eh?Yes, but I'd prefer everything I read to be well written.
There are also some who may not type well, along with those without a complete education. (maybe still getting it)I think even with those handicaps, one could properly use end punctuation and capitalization, and spell small words. There's still room for typos or messing up the sentence when re-writing, though.
It is casual and in the context there is no room for anyone to go through w post with a red pen.I can proofread before posting, even in a casual forum.

you need to get over it
if its READABLE thats all that matters
some people aren't native english speakers, to go over every tiny bit of text would be a burden on them
some people have handicaps that make typing an incredible chore.
its kinder to overlook people's typos than to make a huge thing out of this
this is just a message board its not the encyclopedia eh?Who has no words has no thoughts.
My experience tells me that most people have no clear understanding of their own language's grammar and this lack of overall linguistic perception comes from a steadily deteriorating will to mental discipline and the will to formulate clear thoughts before communing with others. In the majority of cases behind a poor language is a poor mind. And this has nothing to do with the language one is writing in.

I couldnt care less about grammar or punctuation this isnt a test our boss aint gonna see it ..

As long as the point is clear enough for people to understand ..

Many a night i have came on these forums drunk and god knows what ive typed lol

Hoo need gramer anway, Its stooped anyhows. You are kiss my butt fer al I car?


Meh, whenever I have bad grammar it's cuz I can't be arsed to fix what i've written at like 2 in the morning...or it's little things like i instead of I.

Lazy and don't care. If it's not being graded then who cares. Those that try to act like they care need to tell someone who cares. Never ending circle of dont cares.
























did I tell ya I dont care?

Lazy and I don't care. If it's not being graded then who cares. Those that try to act like they care need to tell someone who cares. Its a never ending circle of dont cares.
did I tell yaX I dont care?
5/10 Write it out 1,000,000 times for tomorrow

y'all must be talking about other forums than this one

99% of the posts here are perfectly understandable

the few that come on with leetspeak or who type like they were using a cellphone shape up very quickly (or go away)

most who have grammar errors are from non-english speaking countries; even then 99.9% of the time the intent of the poster is clear

now, when it comes to CONTENT, that is a whole different thing but we cant expect everything can we?

5/10 Write it out 1,000,000 times for tomorrow

But I had plans tomorrow! M ooooooooooooooooooooo M

I think it has a lot to do with being a Republican. Actually I think it is all George Bush's fault. :eek:

I think it has a lot to do with being a Republican. Actually I think it is all George Bush's fault. :eek:
ohmygod youre RIGHT
thats IT
im not voting for bush
THE FIEND

I just hate it when people go no duh! That is so annoying! I mean, you look like the idiot, they stopped using it since the 80s! Damn it.

[/rant]

If it's not being graded then who cares.I do. :D
Those that try to act like they care need to tell someone who cares.We're doing that in this thread. :D

this is just a message board its not the encyclopedia eh?
You wouldn't be on this message board if you didn't want people to read and respond to what you think. If you're not interested in presenting your ideas in a readable fashion, why should I give a moment's thought to your ideas? You obviously don't.

Grammar and spelling are social lubricants. They make the written word run more smoothly. They perform in exactly the same sense that 'please' and 'thank you' do for the spoken word. I will always grant more consideration to someone who attempts to be polite than I will with some rude jackass. It's simple politeness to use capitalization or punctuation.

If a German poster capitalizes all the nouns, that's fine. If a Spaniard reverses the position of the verb, that's equally fine. They're using the grammatical rules they learned in school for their own language, and it's not easy unlearning those for English. I don't hold that against anyone.

When somebody uses ur for you're or ne1 for anyone, they go on my mental ignore list. Text abbreviations are ugly and unnecessary in the world of forums. You can take as much time as you need to compose your posts. You're not paying by the word, either.
Many a night i have came on these forums drunk and god knows what ive typed lol
In the real world, does that attitude impress your friends, peers and parents? It doesn't impress me either. You're doing a fine job of making the original point. Thank you for that show of respect and politeness. You're another poster I'll be ignoring in the future.

...
I can proofread before posting, even in a casual forum.
and I can touch my nose with my tongue, your point?

and I can touch my nose with my tongue, your point?My point is there is room for proofreading. Even if not everyone can do it, there is room for it to happen.

I mostly agree when acquiescing to non-english speakers. But it's not helpful to a thread when someone posts a run-on sentence so convoluted that it's ambiguous. Punctuation and capitalization are very good on making your point clear when others can't hear the inflections of your voice. Aside from that, I don't mind the occasional person who doesn't use capitals or misses a few commas.

It's not hard to get in the habit of using capital letters and punctuation. I started doing it when I turned 15 or so, and it became second nature in a few months.

This site is cool and most of the threads are easy to read. If some people forget to punctuate or mispell one or two words it should allowed to pass because many people don't even notice the errors. However, I do think all of the people who write "ne1" and "u r" or who curse should re-think their idea of posting here.

OOC: I admit to be a bit of a 'grammar Nazi' myself. Bad spelling and grammar don't occur often in the RP forums. But the General forums are always full of fools.

Post #1 for moi.

I've been lurking about for a few weeks here. Good to find a few like-minded folks floating through the internet.

I was passing a sign on a business that had CPA's on it. CPA(')s. CPAs would be plural. 's shows the possessive form of a noun. This is the grammatical faux pas that drives me around the bend. Know what is odd? I didn't do that well with grammar in high school.

Oh and while I am occupying the soap box, who the hell thinks that u takes any less time in the long run to type over you? Come on people. Has the englich speaking world at large become that lazy?

A couple of my grandchildren are in talented and gifted programs. Both of them have a tendancy to "dumb down" their work as their peers label them as nerds. 2 friends with children in TAG classes say they are having the same problem. In my day and when my children were students, the "smart" kids were usually the most popular. I don't know why, but there seems to be a trend in our schools to encourage ignorance, poor grammar, and underachievement.

I've spent a great amount of time on the internet and in posting boards recently, and I've noticed that a large number of posts are practically incomprehensible due to lack of punctuation, poor spelling, no capitalization, or extremely bad grammar. Now while I'm willing to admit that I am a bit of "grammar nazi", it seems that this trend of illiterate literacy is getting out of hand.

So is it laziness, a lack of understanding, or am I just silly for caring?

I care as well. I see no reason why, just because we're sending text by a different medium, that it should be any less polished. I'm not talking about never using colloquialisms or speaking in sentence fragments or whatever, but I think what we write here should be as good in terms of spelling and basic grammar and punctuation as if it were to be written as spoken dialogue in a book.

A couple of my grandchildren are in talented and gifted programs. Both of them have a tendancy to "dumb down" their work as their peers label them as nerds. 2 friends with children in TAG classes say they are having the same problem. In my day and when my children were students, the "smart" kids were usually the most popular. I don't know why, but there seems to be a trend in our schools to encourage ignorance, poor grammar, and underachievement.

Blame rap for that. Now, it's better to get laid and take drugs. And don't forget to put your pants to your crotch.

Bleh, yes I hate rap and?

Has the englich speaking world at large become that lazy?


I think boredom and interest has alot to do with it, along with differing personalities.

A couple of my grandchildren are in talented and gifted programs. Both of them have a tendancy to "dumb down" their work as their peers label them as nerds. 2 friends with children in TAG classes say they are having the same problem. In my day and when my children were students, the "smart" kids were usually the most popular. I don't know why, but there seems to be a trend in our schools to encourage ignorance, poor grammar, and underachievement.

Everyone wants to be cool. That is a problem with our society, I agree.

Everyone wants to be cool. That is a problem with our society, I agree.

Who needs to be cool? As long as you're a CEO when you're 35, you can hire corporate thugs to kill all the people who have bothered you :D

Though I'm planning for President so... SS Thugs ;)

I've spent a great amount of time on the internet and in posting boards recently, and I've noticed that a large number of posts are practically incomprehensible due to lack of punctuation, poor spelling, no capitalization, or extremely bad grammar. Now while I'm willing to admit that I am a bit of "grammar nazi", it seems that this trend of illiterate literacy is getting out of hand.

So is it laziness, a lack of understanding, or am I just silly for caring?

How is your grammar in other languages? Ever thought about postingin another language?

I understand your feelings, but on NS, lot's of people don't use English as their first language.

I speak:
First: Dutch
Second: French
Third: English
Fourth:German

So it is natural for me to make mistakes, since it is not my Dutch or French.

BTW, i like it when I see other people giving it a try to post in our Dutch forum here, some English speakers are doing their utmost best to learn another tongue there.

Blame rap for that. Now, it's better to get laid and take drugs. And don't forget to put your pants to your crotch.

Bleh, yes I hate rap and?

And rock'n'roll didn't foster the same anti-intellectual chic?

Actual grammar I can understand the problem w/ like "I doesn't care what you says." Man, if that doesn't sound like a rookie in the English language, I don't know what does. But what's the big deal w/ shortcuts? You guys want people to always spell out "in my opinion" rather than putting "IMO?"

And rock'n'roll didn't foster the same anti-intellectual chic?

Forgot about that :P

I'm more into Mozart really...

How is your grammar in other languages? Ever thought about postingin another language?

I understand your feelings, but on NS, lot's of people don't use English as their first language.

I speak:
First: Dutch
Second: French
Third: English
Fourth:German

So it is natural for me to make mistakes, since it is not my Dutch or French.

BTW, i like it when I see other people giving it a try to post in our Dutch forum here, some English speakers are doing their utmost best to learn another tongue there.

Tihs psot maeks one ponit I was gonig to mkae qiute claelry: The vsat maojrtiy of peploe who do'nt sepak Ingrish as natievs on the net sepak it pirefctry well, and otfen benar tahn we do.
The modern-day use of l33tsp33x(as opposed to underground h4x0rs dodging Google back in the day) and various txting abbreviations is the problem, aswell as lack of punctuation.
Basically, all I do is try and seperate out what I say, usually using commas as one should in German, to seperate out clauses, so that my ideas are seperated out into their components. Since English, as any English speaker learning foreign languages by choice will tell, has some weird and bewildering grammatical rules, good grammar is not really encouraged by the language, and There's no demand to speak the Queen's English, since she can do it perfectly well herself, and most people can understand each other quite well. There was an e-mail a while ago that showed very well how you can read just about any word if all the letters are there and the first and last are in the right place.

All in all, if you honestly don't understand someone, don't respond, but a few little errors here and there are actually a good thing- I'm sure most of you will have noticed that you learn to deal with poorly written posts quite quickly, so it makes good mental exercise.

But then again, gud gr4M4r 1s l33t!

I'm also a grammar nazi. Using proper english is a good habit to have, it makes you less prone to making errors when you write. I had high school teachers who struggled with spelling because they relied on the autocorrect feature in their word processor too much. The same thing goes for shortcuts, you're not in a chat room so speed is not an issue (I would say "Learn to type faster!" but that's just me) and it is just laziness to do so.

It's because of that you start to see the ineptitude of some posters who like to paste " 's " at the end of words to make them plural or continually misuse "your."

I've no problem with people who don't speak English as a first-language, but it is not that hard to see the difference between them and someone who is just lazy or inept.

I'm a grammer nazi too. I like to make everything perfect. :)

If someone's native language is not English, I don't feel the same way about their grammar...what matters is that they try.

Believe me...Spanish is my second language, so I know how it feels!!!

Well, I have read through all the posts on this topic and I cannot believe no one has mentioned the "runaway bestseller" Eats, Shoots and Leaves For those of you who have posted and consider yourselved grammar nazis you MUST read this book. It is absolultely delightful! You can find it in any bookstore in the bestseller section. It is a book entirely about punctuation. She uses wonderful examples about why we should continue to write and punctuate correctly! I highly recommend it to all of you! :)

I have bad punctuation, and bad spelling mistakes, but sometimes I capitalize certain words to make them stand out and the heck with the rules, on nation states you get them corrected thats a problem for me when I try to do that.

On the other hand I have always been praised for my writing style by other teachers, I best compliment was that I write as if I am talking directly to someone.

I was so bad in english class for punctuation, verbs, adverbs, predicate, etc, etc. I once took an english test, we were supposed to rewrite the sentences with the verb here the adverb there predicate here whatever. I had nothing on the paper and time was running out, so I decided the best thing to do was forget about the verb here and the adverb there and just rewrite the sentences the way it sounded best to me, I got 100 Percent correct no mistakes, after the test the teacher praised me, I told her how I did it, you should have seen the look on her face she did not like it.

Blame rap for that. Now, it's better to get laid and take drugs. And don't forget to put your pants to your crotch.

Bleh, yes I hate rap and?

Rap's the music of young Negroes and 'bird sh*ts' (Whites who want to be hip-hop Negroes)! All that grangster rap horsesh*t just drive the youth into thuggery. Most modern music have amoral effects on the youth and we should really thank the pioneering Hippie movements that began in the '60s to continue corrupting the values of society.

Forgot about that :P

I'm more into Mozart really...

You're not the only classical/orchestral listener here, I persoanlly like marches.

If someone's native language is not English, I don't feel the same way about their grammar...what matters is that they try.

Believe me...Spanish is my second language, so I know how it feels!!!

I doubt that any reasonable person here would expect people with another primary language to use perfect grammar and punctuation all of the time. It is usually easy to identify these folks as they often put phrases together that are perfectly understandable but not done in the "American way". The sad truth is, they often do a better job of composition than many of the US, Canadian, and British natives on here. Bill Cosby got it partly right when he criticized blacks for fostering poor grammar and underachiever status in their children. He didn't include the youth of every other ethnic group. How can you expect to be able to understand their posts when you are staring open mouthed in confusion when listening to them speak? I don't believe the trend is prevalent, but I think it is popular enough to be causing major problems in our education system. :confused:

Rap's the music of young Negroes and 'bird sh*ts' (Whites who want to be hip-hop Negroes)! All that grangster rap horsesh*t just drive the youth into thuggery. Most modern music have amoral effects on the youth and we should really thank the pioneering Hippie movements that began in the '60s to continue corrupting the values of society.


Ah, so the creation of poetry against a repetitive beat is contrary to good skills in communication then?

I, having English as second language, hate it when I can't understand what a post is about. I do my best to post in English and even check my spelling afterwards (and correct it where needed, and it's needed lots of times). I hate that there's a Dutch Topic in which nothing proper is discussed; they do it just to communicate in Dutch. True, I sometimes use expressions translated from Dutch which are no expressions in English, but usually most people get the picture.

Forums are about communication: Communicate with everyone!

I don't care when I'm in here. So long as I can read it, I don't care. The ones that require you to put a great deal of effort into reading, however, I do care about.

However, it is my opinion that so long as the person doing the typing is at least putting some effort into their work, effort that the person who is doing the reading can see, there shouldn't be any problem. Nobody likes a nitpicker; they don't need you grading your work.

If you can see they've put some effort into their post, even if they've still got a lot wrong, you should still treat them with respect. If they've quite obviously not bothered to make it readable, then you can pick on it all you want. Some people aren't very good at English because it's not their first language. Some people may have a mental condition that makes it difficult to use decent spelling and grammar. And some people just aren't very bright. But regardless of why it's not very accurate, so long as you can tell -- and I can usually tell, I don't know about you -- that they've at least tried, you should give them the benefit of the doubt.

Quite frankly, people who start essentially insulting peoples' best efforts are no better than those people who couldn't give a crap whether their work is legible. And of course, I know this will probably cause somebody to quote my post and try to pick out flaws -- of which I'm sure there are many; I don't claim to be a literary genius, in fact I'm rather poor at trying to express myself through a keyboard -- but, I don't care. I've tried to make it as readable as possible. You want more than that, you can buy a novel.

in a proper form, such as essays, i try to always use the best grammatical form i know. in an online situation, other than business correspondence, i tend to defer all capitalization. this is a concious choice i have made for two main reasons. they may not be construed to others, but in my mind it makes sense. 1 - it is my way at attempting visible Humility. i try to speak softly, and let my words carry the weight of my ideas. this is my digital representation. it's also why i try to use slightly smaller fonts. 2 - it lends itself more easily to Accentuation. having fewer capitalized letters allows those that are to stand out more. as there are a fewer visible ways to accent ones words than there are vocally, i think this tends to pass my ideas more clearly. perhaps i am wrong, and this thought has failed.

my usual problem in forums is, as displayed by Eats, Shoots and Leaves, the misuse and abuse of punctuation that results in thoughts being misconstrued.

the greatest cause i see is not in music, but in entertainment in general. the growth of the television and film industries has distracted youths from reading. books, poems, plays, etc. teach us how to arrange words in writing far better than listening to people reading scripts on television.

also, products such as AIM have increased the popularity of so-called 1337 speak, and made it easier to sneak into intelligent conversation. using "lol" to represent a small chortle, thus signifying one's mood in writing is entirely different that asking if "ne1" has that sublimely well made film, Garden State, yet.

so far as foreign members to whom english is a second, or third, or thirteenth, language are concerned, i find their efforts wonderfully laudable. many of them have far better structure than i, a native english speaker. honestly, though i feel i have a fairly strong grasp of the language, i would never call myself fluent. however, there are non-native speakers i've met who i would say are.

on the typo front, i know that i am wonderfully guilty of these often, and accept these as commonplace and moot, provided they don't interrupt a thought. meanwhile, misspellings bother me on certain words, especially homophones such as your, and you're, or there, they're, and their, as i see it as a failing of the writer in trying to transfer their point smoothly to me.

like it, or not, the way you communicate with others affects their opinion of you. this first interface will cause them to form prejudices towards, or against, you based on these interations. it is in one's best interest to at least make an attempt to be intelligible.

oh, and the word is definite, as in of that which is FINITE

I've noticed that the people with typos go unnoticed, but those with rampant mistakes get either their opinions ignored or mocked.

It's both ignorance AND laziness. But I think ignorance is by far the main cause. The ignorant people use laziness as an excuse and a cover-up. Better to be thought lazy than admit to yourself and everyone else that you are ignorant, right?

I've noticed that the people with typos go unnoticed, but those with rampant mistakes get either their opinions ignored or mocked.

And rightfully so, in my opinion. It is a measure of their general intellect, and they are found wanting.

I can't stand grammar, spelling or punctuation mistakes.
I would forgive those who don't have English as a first language, but laziness isn't a good enough reason to misspell words. If I notice I make a spelling mistake, I change it as soon as I notice it.

Wow. I stirred up a little something didn't I?

As to the non-native English speakers, I completely understand that and make a ton of allowances for that. As I would hope someone would do for my French. However you can tell the difference between someone who isn't familiar with English and someone who just disregards the rules of the language.

I guess my major issue is readability, many posts are so difficult to read that I just skip them. Mostly because of punctuation abuse.

And yes, I've read Eats, Shoots, and Leaves and I enjoyed the dickens out of it. Another good grammar read is Woe is I, it presents a very basic understanding of what's important in grammar and is quite funny as well.

I'm quite delighted that this post has gotten such intellgient discussion. Go Us! :D

Grammatical errors by English as second language users can be tolerated but those who have been speaking English all their lives and have poor keyboarding skills are a real concern.