NationStates Jolt Archive

until the EXPERTS, ie the people HIRED to disprove the facts and make their living doing this stuff, say the documents are forgeries, all of you egotistical Republicans can stick your opinion in your ear

edit: let me reiterate this. until the EXPERTS have DECLARED the documents to be INDEFINATELY fake, stick the bullshit in your ear

90 Fuk|< '/0u|2531F '/0u 57up1d 4/\/\3|21k4|\|!

Uhh, yeah. The experts DO say theres something wrong with the memos.

Do you watch ANYTHING besides CBS?

90 Fuk|< '/0u|2531F '/0u 57up1d 4/\/\3|21k4|\|!

so, after the 5 minutes it took me to figure that out - good job.

Fuk|< '/0u p30p13

Fuk|< '/0u p30p13

A little angry, are we?

A little angry, are we?



1 |-|473 4|\|'/80d'/ 0u751d3 /\/\'/ k0u|\|7|2'/

1 |-|473 4|\|'/80d'/ 0u751d3 /\/\'/ k0u|\|7|2'/

What country are you from?

What country are you from?



\/\/|-|47\/1113

Uhh, yeah. The experts DO say theres something wrong with the memos.

Do you watch ANYTHING besides CBS?
good job demonstrating your amazing republican psychic abilities

i do NOT watch the news, however, had they been PROVEN forgeries and DECLARED so i would know it because it would be all over here and on the msn homepage as a headline story

good job demonstrating your amazing republican psychic abilities

i do NOT watch the news, however, had they been PROVEN forgeries and DECLARED so i would know it because it would be all over here and on the msn homepage as a headline story


Fuk|<1|\|9 1d107

\/\/|-|47\/1113

should be 1 0|/|1'/ 5p34k 133t\/1113

Fuk|<1|\|9 1d107
i would ignore you but you are 4|\/|(_)51|\|6

Stupidest...threadjacking...ever.

Though I think we have shown that a superscripted "th" cannot be reproduced in leet speak.

Uhh, yeah. The experts DO say theres something wrong with the memos.Which experts and what precisely did they say?

Do you watch ANYTHING besides CBS?Are NONE of the right on here capable of providing documented sources?

They have been proven to be forgeries!

Yesterday, another retired Air National Guard officer came forward to attack the network's credibility. Retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, who was cited by a senior CBS official on Thursday as the network's "trump card" in verifying the documents, said in an interview that he was "misled" by CBS and believes the documents to be forgeries.

Hodges said that he was read only excerpts of the documents and never saw the documents. A CBS spokeswoman said the network stands by its report.

A review of the authenticated documentary record for Bush's guard service and interviews with former guard members suggest that the president and his aides have been less than fully candid about unexplained gaps in his military service, and have made misleading and sometimes inaccurate statements that have helped fuel the controversy.
"At the same time, Bush's critics have been unable to come up with definitive evidence showing that he failed to meet his minimum obligations to the guard after being suspended from flying for failing to take the physical. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14627-2004Sep11.html?nav=rss_politics/elections/2004



The CYA memo cites orders from a guy who had been retired since the previous year! Dumb!

"An order obtained by The Dallas Morning News shows that Col. Walter "Buck" Staudt was honorably discharged March 1, 1972. CBS News reported this week that a memo in which Staudt was described as interfering with officers' negative evaluations of the future president's service was dated Aug. 18, 1973."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationalpolitics/2002032742_bushguard11.html

It is sad that people can't see the forest... :sniper:

Which experts and what precisely did they say?
Are NONE of the right on here capable of providing documented sources?


Holy Crap you guys, do you live in a fucking cave?

CNN: Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/10/bush.guard.ap/index.html
Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."......Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software.


MSNBC: CBS stands by documents on Bush’s Guard service
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5963843/
The personnel chief in Killian’s unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake.

“They looked to me like forgeries,” said Rufus Martin. “I don’t think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years.” Killian died in 1984.


FOX News: Source Pulls Support for Memos on Bush Guard Service
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132157,00.html
Retired Major Gen. Bobby Hodges (search), a key source behind a "60 Minutes" story that claims Bush shirked his guard duty, said that now that he has seen the memos, he does not believe they are authentic. Hodges told FOX News that CBS did not call him until two days before the piece aired on the network last Wednesday night, and never offered to show him the memos. He said the network only wanted to discuss their content, not their authenticity.

ABC News: False Documentation?
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-1.html
The memos are dated 1972 and 1973, when computers with word-processing software were not available.

More than half a dozen document experts contacted by ABC News said they had doubts about the memos' authenticity.

"These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:"

Holy Crap you guys, do you live in a fucking cave?

No, they just live in a perpetual state of denial. :D

Holy Crap you guys, do you live in a fucking cave?

CNN: Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/10/bush.guard.ap/index.html



MSNBC: CBS stands by documents on Bush’s Guard service
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5963843/



FOX News: Source Pulls Support for Memos on Bush Guard Service
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132157,00.html


ABC News: False Documentation?
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-1.html


read the starting post

read it again

read it until you can fucking understand english and understand it

UNTIL then and no sooner stay out of my thread

read the starting post

read it again

read it until you can fucking understand english and understand it

UNTIL then and no sooner stay out of my thread


You just don't get it. Do you? The EXPERTS, are COMING OUT, and SAYING, these ARE FORGERIES. Learn TO FUCKING READ, the NEWS.



Honestly.

until the EXPERTS, ie the people HIRED to disprove the facts and make their living doing this stuff, say the documents are forgeries, all of you egotistical Republicans can stick your opinion in your ear

edit: let me reiterate this. until the EXPERTS have DECLARED the documents to be INDEFINATELY fake, stick the bullshit in your ear
Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript - a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" - as evidence indicating forgery.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040910/D850UGD82.html

Independent Document Examiner finds that the documents are Proven FAKES

read the starting post

read it again

read it until you can fucking understand english and understand it

UNTIL then and no sooner stay out of my thread

A real electronic typesetting expert gives his two cents:

http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm

The "expert" CBS hired is a handwriting expert, totally unqualified to analyze electronic documents.

You just don't get it. Do you? The EXPERTS, are COMING OUT, and SAYING, these ARE FORGERIES. Learn TO FUCKING READ, the NEWS.



Honestly.
how many of those people named have DECLARED and states Out right the documents are fake and forgeries indefinately

not that they mgiht be forgeries, or they think they are fake. statign the know for a fact they are not the real documents

Wow, he wrote really big and in red. He must be right.

lemme try, just to see how it works:

There are experts on BOTH sides working now to definitively prove or disprove the authenticity of the memos. Perhaps we should ALL wait until the actual documents are examined in their entirety. You know...how about we all stop acting like trained monkeys?

A real electronic typesetting expert gives his two cents:

http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm

The "expert" CBS hired is a handwriting expert, totally unqualified to analyze electronic documents.
im referring to the people hired by OTHER people and networks

im referring to the people hired by OTHER people and networks

Read the article I linked to. Read his resume, it's posted right there.

Read the article I linked to. Read his resume, it's posted right there.
http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm
This is what Pan-Arab Israel posted. Look at it before you attack him. THese documents are fake, you are fools if believe otherwise.

Read the article I linked to. Read his resume, it's posted right there.
he does not even address any specific type writer and does not even mention the ibm selectric composer

and lets not forget to mention the fact nowhere in his resume is he a person whos job it is to examine type, he is not an expert in the field, his expertise in everything he has it in is irrelevent in this case

especially in lou of the fact there is an army of SPECIFICALLY type experts who have no yet stated the document is fake

until you can quote a major news source whose EXPERTS have stated and i mean STATED this is a forgery and is fake, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY TOPIC

http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm
This is what Pan-Arab Israel posted. Look at it before you attack him. THese documents are fake, you are fools if believe otherwise.

It's obvious that there are questions about the memos validity. The jury is still out though, as the original documents have not been reviewed, and various experts disagree.

How come you right-wing guys are all about "proof" now, but you still continue to support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? They're accusations have been pretty solidly refuted...but you guys ignore that proof.

I'm waiting for further info to make up my mind about about the memos...it's the only honest thing to do.

A real electronic typesetting expert gives his two cents:

http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm

The "expert" CBS hired is a handwriting expert, totally unqualified to analyze electronic documents.
i thought you read his resume, he is a PROGRAMMER not a person trained to indentify type from any typewriter or computer

he does not even address any specific type writer and does not even mention the ibm selectric composer

and lets not forget to mention the fact nowhere in his resume is he a person whos job it is to examine type, he is not an expert in the field, his expertise in everything he has it in is irrelevent in this case

especially in lou of the fact there is an army of SPECIFICALLY type experts who have no yet stated the document is fake

until you can quote a major news source whose EXPERTS have stated and i mean STATED this is a forgery and is fake, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY TOPIC

You missed the critical point of the opinion.

Do you understand that no typewriter back then could perform the computations required to produce a pixel-perfect match of a MS Word copy?

You have a lot of faith, I'll give you that much. :)

until the EXPERTS, ie the people HIRED to disprove the facts and make their living doing this stuff, say the documents are forgeries, all of you egotistical Republicans can stick your opinion in your ear

edit: let me reiterate this. until the EXPERTS have DECLARED the documents to be INDEFINATELY fake, stick the bullshit in your ear
yeah, shut up, Republicans! this is America, and we have a system here: when an accusation is made about somebody we assume that they are guilty until experts can prove otherwise!

i thought you read his resume, he is a PROGRAMMER not a person trained to indentify type from any typewriter or computer

Um, he wrote the program that tells the printer what to do. And he's convinced the SeeBS documents were printed by an electronic word processing program. Hence, they are forgeries.

Get it?

You missed the critical point of the opinion.

Do you understand that no typewriter back then could perform the computations required to produce a pixel-perfect match of a MS Word copy?

You have a lot of faith, I'll give you that much. :)
let me repate to you

your "expert" is a programmer, not a type expert. go away k thanks

Um, he wrote the program that tells the printer what to do. And he's convinced the SeeBS documents were printed by an electronic word processing program. Hence, they are forgeries.

Get it?
let me REPEAT this for the THIRD or even FOURTH time

until a TYPE expert comes forward and EMPHATICALLY states the documents are INDEFINATE forgeries. stick the bullshit in your ear and stay out of my topic

let me REPEAT this for the THIRD or even FOURTH time

until a TYPE expert comes forward and EMPHATICALLY states the documents are INDEFINATE forgeries. stick the bullshit in your ear and stay out of my topic
"indefinate" forgeries? don't you mean "definite"? nobody needs to prove they are indefinite, that's where we are right now.

You just don't get it. Do you? The EXPERTS, are COMING OUT, and SAYING, these ARE FORGERIES. Learn TO FUCKING READ, the NEWS.



Honestly.

The bottom line is that the jury is still out. There are two questions at hand: 1) The "th" superscript. Experts have stated that as early as 1968, there were typewriters in usage in the Texas Air National Guard that could produce the superscript. However, there is no evidence either way stating that Killian had one or not.
2) Also of note is the fact that there are still disagreements as to whether the font is Times New Roman or not. Others state that it more closely resembles Bold Face Font Type 2 from the IBM Executive. The irregular spacing in letters also indicates that it is typewritten.

So, here's my question to all the "Forgery" screaming people: If one were to take the time to make sure that Word reproduced the irregular spacing of a typewriter, wouldn't you also have taken the time to make sure to eliminate superscripting and to use a font that more closely resembles a typewriter? Or maybe just written it on a damn typewriter? It's not like they're hard to find.

For the record, I believe they are forgeries. But here's where I differ from the rest of the rabid "They're forgeries!" folks: Karl Rove pioneered a political technique he refers to as inoculation, and it is something the Republican media machine uses to GREAT effect. In short, you identify something that will come out to embarass or damage your candidate. Using proxies, you release easily-refutable, obviously faked material that WOULD HAVE BEEN DAMAGING TO YOUR CANDIDATE IF IT WAS REAL. Then, once another of your proxies debunks your false materials, you have successfully short-changed any legitimate inquiry into the matter.

Food for thought, eh?

let me repate to you

your "expert" is a programmer, not a type expert. go away k thanks

Don't you get it? Those documents were created by MS Word, not a typewriter! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

"indefinate" forgeries? don't you mean "definite"? nobody needs to prove they are indefinite, that's where we are right now.
sorry i liked the word indefinite, you are correct

Don't you get it? Those documents were created by MS Word, not a typewriter! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
can a mod remove this ass from my topic until he learns to read?

You missed the critical point of the opinion.

Do you understand that no typewriter back then could perform the computations required to produce a pixel-perfect match of a MS Word copy?

You have a lot of faith, I'll give you that much. :)
Or rather, "Only MS Word can do the computations to match a typewriter from the 70's perfectly."

Simple really. He had the document, he reproduced it on MS Word. I can do that too with all of the other Bush TANG documents. Does that mean that they are fake?

sorry i liked the word indefinite, you are correct
no prob, just thought it might help people get your message, so you don't have to repeat yourself again :).

Or rather, "Only MS Word can do the computations to match a typewriter from the 70's perfectly."

Simple really. He had the document, he reproduced it on MS Word. I can do that too with all of the other Bush TANG documents. Does that mean that they are fake?

LOL! The CBS documents were produced with MS Word but there is a genuine exact copy somewhere?

So someone hacked MS Word, figured out the internals of the typesetting code, and managed to make MS Word reproduce the exact typeset of an absurdly expensive typewriter that Killian could not have used?

Wow! What a guy!

LOL! The CBS documents were produced with MS Word but there is a genuine exact copy somewhere?

So someone hacked MS Word, figured out the internals of the typesetting code, and managed to make MS Word reproduce the exact typeset of an absurdly expensive typewriter that Killian could not have used?

Wow! What a guy!
Ever used MS word? You can custom set the internal spacing to whatever you wish. 9th grade tech class, miss it?

LOL! The CBS documents were produced with MS Word but there is a genuine exact copy somewhere?

So someone hacked MS Word, figured out the internals of the typesetting code, and managed to make MS Word reproduce the exact typeset of an absurdly expensive typewriter that Killian could not have used?

Wow! What a guy!
listen, what he is saying is if they were truely trying to make a forgey they could have EASILY removed all tell tale signs in teh SETTINGS except for the proportional fonts, but that wouldntgive anything away because several typewriters had it at the time

Ever used MS word? You can custom set the internal spacing to whatever you wish. 9th grade tech class, miss it?

It's more than just the proportional spacing. MS Word probably makes a different decision letter-by-letter on the amount of spacing to use, that setting you mentioned is generic.

And in regards to that point, the control you have over the spacing is not exactly at a very fine granularity. Is it such a coincidence that MS Word happens to have one setting that matches the really, really expensive typewriter exactly?

It's more than just the proportional spacing. MS Word probably makes a different decision letter-by-letter on the amount of spacing to use, that setting you mentioned is generic.

And in regards to that point, the control you have over the spacing is not exactly at a very fine granularity. Is it such a coincidence that MS Word happens to have one setting that matches the really, really expensive typewriter exactly?
and if anyone REALLY cared this could have been done in a photoediting program like PSP or APS

listen, what he is saying is if they were truely trying to make a forgey they could have EASILY removed all tell tale signs in teh SETTINGS except for the proportional fonts, but that wouldntgive anything away because several typewriters had it at the time

Actually, very few typewriters had it at the time.

So you missed my sarcasm? What is the motive behind releasing a MS Word copy to the media instead of a photocopy of the geniune item?

Actually, very few typewriters had it at the time.

So you missed my sarcasm? What is the motive behind releasing a MS Word copy to the media instead of a photocopy of the geniune item?
several and very few are proportionally the same in the time frame we are making the statements about

several and very few are proportionally the same in the time frame we are making the statements about

Even if Killian managed to get his hands on one of those absurdly expensive machines (unlikely), there are still many things in the SeeBS document that indicates a forgery.

Even if Killian managed to get his hands on one of those absurdly expensive machines (unlikely), there are still many things in the SeeBS document that indicates a forgery.
you know the part where he isn't an expert on typography? yeah, lets focus on that

It's obvious that there are questions about the memos validity. The jury is still out though, as the original documents have not been reviewed, and various experts disagree.

How come you right-wing guys are all about "proof" now, but you still continue to support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? They're accusations have been pretty solidly refuted...but you guys ignore that proof.

I'm waiting for further info to make up my mind about about the memos...it's the only honest thing to do.

How come no one from the right is reasonable enough to say that the jury is still out?

How come they ignore my reasonable questions?

(my apologies to any right-wingers who are less rabid and are more willing to see how this mess plays out, rather than rushing to judgement.)

It's more than just the proportional spacing. MS Word probably makes a different decision letter-by-letter on the amount of spacing to use, that setting you mentioned is generic.

And in regards to that point, the control you have over the spacing is not exactly at a very fine granularity. Is it such a coincidence that MS Word happens to have one setting that matches the really, really expensive typewriter exactly?
Actually, it is down to the hundreth of a point if I remember right.

you know the part where he isn't an expert on typography? yeah, lets focus on that

I'm done with this topic. Any rational person can see those things are forgeries.

I figure I should let you know that the Kerry campaign is about to launch attacks based on the CBS forgeries. You can guess what's going to happen when they are finally exposed.

I'm done with this topic. Any rational person can see those things are forgeries.

I figure I should let you know that the Kerry campaign is about to launch attacks based on the CBS forgeries. You can guess what's going to happen when they are finally exposed.

The only thing exposed is your inability to process any information that runs counter to your pre-conceived notions. Those who say the documents are real are likewise handicapped.

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read the starting post

read it again

read it until you can fucking understand english and understand it

UNTIL then and no sooner stay out of my thread


he does not even address any specific type writer and does not even mention the ibm selectric composer

and lets not forget to mention the fact nowhere in his resume is he a person whos job it is to examine type, he is not an expert in the field, his expertise in everything he has it in is irrelevent in this case

especially in lou of the fact there is an army of SPECIFICALLY type experts who have no yet stated the document is fake

until you can quote a major news source whose EXPERTS have stated and i mean STATED this is a forgery and is fake, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY TOPIC

can a mod remove this ass from my topic until he learns to read?


It's a good thing you are taking such a mature attitude to your thread. Could you imagine what it would be like if you acted childish? :rolleyes:

Look you idiots. I typed the damn memo's ok. They are fake, I admit that I thought it would be cool to do this. Now it is up to all of you to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that I did not do this, otherwise they are authentic.

That is about the logic of the dumbass that started the thread. Get your head out of your ass long enough to breath, you might learn something.

And while your at it, pull your head out of your polisci professors lap long enough to stop being his/her Democratic clone, your freakin' moronic ape.

Look you idiots. I typed the damn memo's ok. They are fake, I admit that I thought it would be cool to do this. Now it is up to all of you to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that I did not do this, otherwise they are authentic.

That is about the logic of the dumbass that started the thread. Get your head out of your ass long enough to breath, you might learn something.

And while your at it, pull your head out of your polisci professors lap long enough to stop being his/her Democratic clone, your freakin' moronic ape.

Can't you just feel the open mindedness and love? Mmm, it smells like napalm in the morning.

Look you idiots. I typed the damn memo's ok. They are fake, I admit that I thought it would be cool to do this. Now it is up to all of you to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that I did not do this, otherwise they are authentic.

That is about the logic of the dumbass that started the thread. Get your head out of your ass long enough to breath, you might learn something.

And while your at it, pull your head out of your polisci professors lap long enough to stop being his/her Democratic clone, your freakin' moronic ape.

Alright... your first paragraph was point enough.. the second started loosing ground and the third was out of line. Perhaps you could make your points without the insults?

i do NOT watch the news
And yet you feel an obligation to share your views of the news with all here. You have just proven yourself to be RedArrow, with even less facts to get in the way of your rants.

And yet you feel an obligation to share your views of the news with all here. You have just proven yourself to be RedArrow, with even less facts to get in the way of your rants.

I think Chess was stating a preference for print and internet journalism, as should we all, since TV rarely conveys anything more complex than what can be summed up in a sound bite (part of the reason I think Kerry has more difficulty being heard.)

How come no one from the right is reasonable enough to say that the jury is still out?

How come they ignore my reasonable questions?

(my apologies to any right-wingers who are less rabid and are more willing to see how this mess plays out, rather than rushing to judgement.)

It actually doesnt even matter to me at this point whether the documents are real or fake(Though I am leaning towards fake).

What I am concerned about is that CBS did not care to do its job in a responsible fashion. Look at all the points people(on both sides) have immediately brought up. All these are reasonable, and CBS should have looked into them before irresponsibly releasing these documents. The news organizations have an obligation to thoroughly investigate all the information they present to us. The fact that there are so many debatable points about these memos, coming out so quickly, shows that CBS and Dan Rather did not bother to do anything other than a cursory investigation into them. What other piece of news have they not bothered to investigate? The next time they say something, should I assume they properly looked into it or should I assume they are saying whatever they want?

It actually doesnt even matter to me at this point whether the documents are real or fake(Though I am leaning towards fake).

What I am concerned about is that CBS did not care to do its job in a responsible fashion. Look at all the points people(on both sides) have immediately brought up. All these are reasonable, and CBS should have looked into them before irresponsibly releasing these documents. The news organizations have an obligation to thoroughly investigate all the information they present to us. The fact that there are so many debatable points about these memos, coming out so quickly, shows that CBS and Dan Rather did not bother to do anything other than a cursory investigation into them. What other piece of news have they not bothered to investigate? The next time they say something, should I assume they properly looked into it or should I assume they are saying whatever they want?

You're assuming that CBS didn't do their job. Just because questions have been raised doesn't mean that CBS hasn't already answered them to their satisfaction. They've already stated that before going to air with the memos, they consulted multiple experts, and had a lot of other supporting evidence as well.

Now, if only we could get Rather and Novak to revela their sources simulteneously...

Look you idiots. I typed the damn memo's ok. They are fake, I admit that I thought it would be cool to do this. Now it is up to all of you to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that I did not do this, otherwise they are authentic.

That is about the logic of the dumbass that started the thread. Get your head out of your ass long enough to breath, you might learn something.

And while your at it, pull your head out of your polisci professors lap long enough to stop being his/her Democratic clone, your freakin' moronic ape.
1) you are a hypocrite
2) not ONCE have i evem ASSERTED it is real, i have just stated you republicans are not fucking psychics as much as you imagine yourself to be and since no EXPERT has stated they are fake you can no mroe sya they are fake than i can say they are real

You're assuming that CBS didn't do their job. Just because questions have been raised doesn't mean that CBS hasn't already answered them to their satisfaction. They've already stated that before going to air with the memos, they consulted multiple experts, and had a lot of other supporting evidence as well.

Now, if only we could get Rather and Novak to revela their sources simulteneously...

The only expert they have consulted was a handwriting expert. If they have consulted a typesetting/typewriter expert(or are even claiming to have), then I havent heard about it.

edit: As to CBS and Novak revealing sources, that certainly would be interesting. Slight differance though. In Novak's case, revealing his source might cause his source to longer have access to that type of information. In CBS's case, putting forward an expert they consulted will not harm that person unless they consulted someone in the military or perhaps in govt.

I think Chess was stating a preference for print and internet journalism, as should we all,
I could grant you that point, however, you have to admit, it's getting hard in this thread to distinguish Chess from RedArrow. The same intellectual content is being provided, and I wouldn't put it too far from Chess to use the same "sources" RedArrow uses.
since TV rarely conveys anything more complex than what can be summed up in a sound bite (part of the reason I think Kerry has more difficulty being heard.)
Funny...watching the main stream media, I get the impression that it's Bush who doesn't get a chance to make any points. But I could grant you that point, seeing the recent coverage.

The only expert they have consulted was a handwriting expert. If they have consulted a typesetting/typewriter expert(or are even claiming to have), then I havent heard about it.


Well, if CBS is smart, they'll release all their evidence in a brand spanking new report. They wait for a firestorm of controvery to erupt, they let it be fanned by the internet, then they show the 2nd half of the story, and sell a bundle of commercial time.

And yet you feel an obligation to share your views of the news with all here. You have just proven yourself to be RedArrow, with even less facts to get in the way of your rants.
wtf is red arrow

wtf is red arrow
MKULTRA.

I could grant you that point, however, you have to admit, it's getting hard in this thread to distinguish Chess from RedArrow. The same intellectual content is being provided, and I wouldn't put it too far from Chess to use the same "sources" RedArrow uses.

Funny...watching the main stream media, I get the impression that it's Bush who doesn't get a chance to make any points. But I could grant you that point, seeing the recent coverage.
in all honesty i think you are delusional and coincidently a hypocrite

I could grant you that point, however, you have to admit, it's getting hard in this thread to distinguish Chess from RedArrow. The same intellectual content is being provided, and I wouldn't put it too far from Chess to use the same "sources" RedArrow uses.

MKULTRA.

lol I've always thought Chess and MKULTRA were puppets of the same person.

Well, if CBS is smart, they'll release all their evidence in a brand spanking new report. They wait for a firestorm of controvery to erupt, they let it be fanned by the internet, then they show the 2nd half of the story, and sell a bundle of commercial time.

Yes, to save their credubility they should definately release their sources. And you are correct, they could probably make a bundle off of it.

I think journalists are abusing their ability to protect sources these days.

Its one thing to protect a whistleblower or someone who would become useless as source if he was exposed and another to not release who your fact checkers are and who they are checking their facts with.

I am less and less inclined to believe ANY news outlet who quotes "reliable sources". The news these days is selling a product, not providing a loss making public service like it used to be decades ago. Once money comes into it, I am supposed to believe them simply because they say so? Maybe I am too cynical.

btw: check my edit, i added some stuff.

Yes, to save their credubility they should definately release their sources. And you are correct, they could probably make a bundle off of it.

I think journalists are abusing their ability to protect sources these days.

Its one thing to protect a whistleblower or someone who would become useless as source if he was exposed and another to not release who your fact checkers are and who they are checking their facts with.

I am less and less inclined to believe ANY news outlet who quotes "reliable sources". The news these days is selling a product, not providing a loss making public service like it used to be decades ago. Once money comes into it, I am supposed to believe them simply because they say so? Maybe I am too cynical.

btw: check my edit, i added some stuff.

The media should not be ruled by economic darwinism. Ideally, their job should be to inform, even if it isn't popular and profitable.