NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes thats sounds about right , wonder why so many peoplehate America then

It would be nice to tell the Arabs to drink their oil though.....but that won't happen either.

Well not as long as there are oil tycoons running your country, agreed. Never say never though my friend, never say never :)

Yes thats sounds about right , wonder why so many peoplehate America then

It wasn't always this way and I don't believe as many people hate America as it seems. I think it's just right now they do. I also don't believe they hate Americans, they hate the leadership (or lack there of) I'm sure once Bush is out of office this year or in the next four (Depending on what happens with this election) that a more sane America will hopefully emerge and fences can be mended.

Well not as long as there are oil tycoons running your country, agreed. Never say never though my friend, never say never :)

That is an over simplification. The oil companies and tycoons do not run the country.

Using the Arab oil while leaving our own reserves intact is a defense measure. With China buying more and more Arab oil, the Middle East will eventually run out of oil. THEN we will have our reserves left.

We will be fighting China one day, the Chinese have already stated this as a future certainty.

Using the Arab oil while leaving our own reserves intact is a defense measure. With China buying more and more Arab oil, the Middle East will eventually run out of oil. THEN we will have our reserves left.

We will be fighting China one day, the Chinese have already stated this as a future certainty.

Actually to go a little off topic.. well I guess we did that a while ago..lol

But did you hear about China selling arms to Al Qaeda? It was on the news this morning. It looks like China is helping them, that was some thing I didn't expect. Maybe that clash will be sooner then later. Although I doubt China and the US really want to go to war with each other. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the story gains legs or not.

Stephistan, one question:

Since this thread has become about oil, what do you and everyone else drive?

The war was always about oil. Not WMDs.

And the USA, wasn't the first to use them under current definitions. WW1 germany and used mustard gas.

Stephistan, one question:

Since this thread has become about oil, what do you and everyone else drive?

The war was always about oil. Not WMDs.

And the USA, wasn't the first to use them under current definitions. WW1 germany and used mustard gas.

I drive a car. So does my hubby.. so we are not exactly tree huggers..lol

I drive a car. So does my hubby.. so we are not exactly tree huggers..lol

I drive my feet. Not because I can't drive a car, but because I hate the damn things. I have to learn soon enough.

My wife insists.

Still: why would we attack an oil rich nation, not allied with us? For the oil

Meh

Poeple don't see

Going alittle off topic once more:
If China sold Al-Queda weapons it wouldnt surprise me the least bit. China said last Century belonged to America. This century would belong to China. They have a will to become a superpower as many in their military feel, the only thing standing between them and that status is the US and its ability to project power pretty much world wide. If anything we're more than likely instored for another Cold War. Since both China and the US have nukes, and Chinas nukes can hit the west coast of the US, or Europe.

I can't see China challenging the US anytime soon unless the Taiwan situation flares up. China is concentrating on economic growth and it needs US trade to achieve this. Eventually, US and Chinese interests are going to clash but another Cold War situation seems unlikely. A nationalistic Russia is more of a concern for the US at the moment, especially as the power struggle over oil reserves in Central Asia becomes more intense.

Bush accuses other countries of having WMDs, and invades those that don't even have them. Yet it is America which has the most Weapons of Mass Destruction in the world! THIS IS A DOUBLE STANDARD THAT NEEDS TO BE EXPOSED.
guess you've never heard of the non-proliferation treaty, signed by nearly all member nations of the UN.

Actually to go a little off topic.. well I guess we did that a while ago..lol

But did you hear about China selling arms to Al Qaeda? It was on the news this morning. It looks like China is helping them, that was some thing I didn't expect. Maybe that clash will be sooner then later. Although I doubt China and the US really want to go to war with each other. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the story gains legs or not.

Why does that not surprise me? The cold war never ended and those who think China has changed should wake up soon. I for one have never, and will never, trust them.

I drive my feet. Not because I can't drive a car, but because I hate the damn things. I have to learn soon enough.

My wife insists.

Still: why would we attack an oil rich nation, not allied with us? For the oil

Meh

Poeple don't see
Why would we do that when our allies had enough already? Wouldn't it be more criminal to do business with a genocidal mass-murder for oil - such as France has done with Iraq and Sudan?
If it was all about oil, then where is it?
Gee, I guess that does not fit so well into your little conspiracy model - better make something up real fast.

the iran-iraq war was a proxy war between america and the soviet union.

The US gave money to Iran and weapons to Iraq, we played both ends against the middle.

The world would be in a much worse predicament in Iran had defeated Iraq. Saddam's power is in politics, so not extending far beyond the borders of Iraq, however Khomeini's(sp?) power is based on religion, Islam to be exact, 1.6 billion people world wide. Iraq won and was given minimal support by the rest of the muslim world, if Iran had won the whole Middle East would have united in the Muslim League (Except Israel, whose existence would be measured in weeks after the formation of a strong muslim league). It would be the US's worst nightmare, Oil would stop flowing, commerce through the Suez would stop, India would be in trouble. We would have had 3 super powers, the United States, the United Soviet Socialist Republics, and the Muslim League, the US and USSR, both being Christian, (the USSR was technically atheist but millions still practiced Eastern Orthodox Christianity) would unite, the Unites States would be forced to bolster a weak Soviet economy. Israel would be sacrificed to appease the Muslims, millions would be dead but the US and USSR would do nothing. Turkey, Greece, and India would all increase their defenses, Turkey may even choose to join the Muslim League. If plans were made in invade it would involve Indian and Chinese forces invading Pakistan, Massive Soviet Tank collumns moving into Iran, Greek, Polish, German, and Ukranian Forces moving into Turkey. French, British, and Italian forces attacking North Africa, and the US landing on the Arabian peninsula in an invasion that dwarfed D-Day.

Just another one of my doomsday theories. Believe it if you want, I tend to be a pesimist when it comes to politics, I always assume the worst will happen, as usally does.

See, my thing is, you only seem to care about the UN when its good for you. Saddam was disregarding UN resolutions... therefore he's evil. When neo-cons rave about the waste and corruption of the UN, they're fighting for national soverigntity. You can't use the UN arguement when you don't give a damn about what the UN says. Yes, I think we should've stopped him, but not by unilateral action, it's not the right way to do things because it creates precedant and leaves the door open to all manner of future abuses and wars committed in the name of human rights.

Ah, but I don't care about the UN, at any time, because they had and have a very bad habit of sitting by and doing nothing. Not just with Iraq, but with countries like Sudan where militant groups are killing their own people. All the UN seems to want to do is talk about things, and pass resolutions. None of which stops the slaughter. Saddam is evil because of what he was doing to his people, not because he ignored some useless resolutions. And I do use the "UN argument" because they don't do their job.

Just like the US made the unfortunate mistake if arming the afghani mujihadeen (sp?) against the russians? and the unfortunate mistake of funding an anti-democratic coup in the then newly independent Belgian Congo in 1961? and the unfortunate mistake of illegally selling weapons to the other side in the Iran-Iraq war to raise money to fund right-wing terrorists in Central America? and is this just a lot of unfortunate coincidences?

No, bad choices. We had no way of knowing the mujahadeen would turn on us. Not familiar enough with history to know about the Belgian Congo (now have some reading to do). We called the arms thing Iran-Contra, I believe, and some heads rolled over that, too. It's not like it happened, then we just shrugged and said "Oops." But contrary to what others outside the US think, we don't consider ourselves perfect.

If you give even a tiny crap about the UN, consider that Israel has been in defiance of the UN resolution that it should return to its pre 1967 borders for over 30 years, and that it regularly uses heavy military hardware against its own citizens (as the inhabitants of the Palestinian Authority still currently are), and that all this has been and still is supported by the UN.

And they're doing what to enforce that resolution? I agree, Israel needs to get out of Palestine. Ariel Sharon, frankly, scares me.


Where's the sarcasm? do you mean that in fact you do have an idea that the us is all-pervasive? I don't see how you could not know that the us is involved in just about every country in the world, unsurprisingly since it tis the richest, most powerful country by a very long way.

The sarcasm being that we may be in many parts of the world, with mostly good intentions, we don't control it. We don't want to, everybody else is perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. But when leaders are butchering their own people, no one should stand by and say "It's their country, let them do as they please."

Wrong on a few points here. Actually Canada has the most natural resources in the world, not the US. The United States would not be able to live as they do now. They use 25% of the world's oil and yet only have 3% of the world's oil reserves. Canada has the largest oil reserve in the world. As for Canadian steel, maybe, you might get a point for that. Maybe Canada would import from some one else. However to say that the US could sustain it's self better then any other country in the world, simply isn't true. Canada, maybe. The US, nah, not with your consumption of oil.

I did not say the US would be able to live as they do now, I just said that if we closed our borders to all trade we would be able to sustain ourselves better than anyother country, China would be the big loser, Japan next, Saudi Arabia would be screwed. Those three countries are very heavily dependent on trade with the US, we are the ones building up the Chinese Economy, we are the one's buying all the electronics from Japan, we are the ones buying all the Oil from Saudi Arabia, making them so rich that the Saudis them selves do little of the work, they actually bring in workers from Pakistan and India to actually do the work for them.

Alaska has more than enough oil to meet the US' needs. And have you ever heard of Ethanol? That is Gasoline made from Corn or Soybeans, let's see, the US produces a vast excess of crops every year, E-85 is just starting to hit the market, that is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline. If we made E-85 standard throughout the whole country Saudi Arabia would be doomed, OPEC would suddenly lose a lot of power, not that they have any, when they jack up the prices we just turn to Saudi Arabia or Russia, or as the hippies will tell you, Iraq. So, we switch to E-85, our use of oil drops dramatically, we drill Alaska, get all the oil we need for 200 years, the middle east would be screwed, Saudi Arabia is only as rich as we make them, they can cut of oil to us but the costs for them would be much worse than the costs for the US.

Stephistan, one question:

Since this thread has become about oil, what do you and everyone else drive?

The war was always about oil. Not WMDs.

And the USA, wasn't the first to use them under current definitions. WW1 germany and used mustard gas.
I drive my feet as well, not because I have to--been driving for longer than I haven't been--but because I want to. It's a pain in the ass to have two vehicles in San Francisco, and my girlfriend has a small pickup, so I either ride with her, or I take the very good, very inexpensive public transportation system.