NationStates Jolt Archive

I am sitting here holding the Koran in my hand. For those who don't know, the Koran is the primary Holy Book of the Islalmic faith. The Islamic Bible, if you will.

Now, we get so many threads about how "All Muslims Are terrorists!" and "Islam tells you to kill everybody!" and such, and people then bring up passages from the Koran that support their statement. They say that Islamic children are raised from birth to hate all Christians and Jews and that the Koran hates America (even though America wont exist for a couple centuries). If this is true, and if the Koran truly does teach hatred and violence above all else, then logic would state that the majority of the Koran would be devoted to it. That it would be apparent whenever you read any part of the Holy Book.

I am looking at the very first page of the Koran. Who knows what it is?

Oooh lemme guess! The first page says

"To my Darling Ruth."

This is a work of fiction , and any resemblance to persons living or dead , is coincidence.

Was I right?

isn'y it something along the lines of "to kill one person is to kill us all" which is similar o the jewish saying "to kill one person is to kill the world" or am i thinking of the same thing?

...Isn't it the same as the first words in the Bible and the Torah?

If not, I'll go with the classic "There is one god, Allah, and Mohhammod(sp?) is his prophet"

I really dunno though...

isn'y it something along the lines of "to kill one person is to kill us all" which is similar o the jewish saying "to kill one person is to kill the world" or am i thinking of the same thing?


That's probably in there somewhere, Islam does preach peace and non-violence, but it's not the first passage.

That's probably in there somewhere, Islam does preach peace and non-violence, but it's not the first passage.
Hmm im gonna guess again, does it say this?

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.1] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[1.2] The Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.3] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1.4] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
[1.5] Keep us on the right path.
[1.6] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

Close (very close) but no.

I'd usually say "Close enough" since we're probably both just looking at different translations, but there are a few key word differences that do change the meaning slightly

Chapter One of the Qur'an is called al-Fatiha which translates to 'The Opening'. There are three main translations of the Qur'an.

001.001
YUSUFALI: In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
SHAKIR: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

001.002
YUSUFALI: Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
PICKTHAL: Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
SHAKIR: All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

001.003
YUSUFALI: Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
PICKTHAL: The Beneficent, the Merciful.
SHAKIR: The Beneficent, the Merciful.

001.004
YUSUFALI: Master of the Day of Judgment.
PICKTHAL: Master of the Day of Judgment,
SHAKIR: Master of the Day of Judgment.

001.005
YUSUFALI: Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
PICKTHAL: Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
SHAKIR: Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

001.006
YUSUFALI: Show us the straight way,
PICKTHAL: Show us the straight path,
SHAKIR: Keep us on the right path.

001.007
YUSUFALI: The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
PICKTHAL: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
SHAKIR: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/001.qmt.html

This might help
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
Islam is a religon of peace, but a small group have twisted it's words to their own devices, making a whole community look bad :(

Close (very close) but no.

I'd usually say "Close enough" since we're probably both just looking at different translations, but there are a few key word differences that do change the meaning slightly

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html theres my version

That's probably in there somewhere, Islam does preach peace and non-violence, but it's not the first passage.
I am sure that if applied perfectly, Islam (or Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism) would result in total world peace and harmony. But what is relevant to real life is how the religion's followers and societies behave. Therefore this exercise in finding passages is useless because what is important isn't what the holy book says, but how people interpret the holy book and how they emphasize some parts and de-emphasize other parts. There is no doubt that most modern interpretations of Islam are very conservative and and there is too much toleration for the holy wars and violence of modern day jihadists.

With all religions, followers tend to interpret their religion to mean what they want it to mean.

With all religions, followers tend to interpret their religion to mean what they want it to mean.

Exactly. That is why religion has to be done away with. It has caused the most wars, deaths, and most destruction ever known to mankind.

Exactly. That is why religion has to be done away with. It has caused the most wars, deaths, and most destruction ever known to mankind.
Actually atheist ideologies - Nazism, communism - have caused the most death and destruction. The real problem lies with all humans and our greed which transcends any religion or lack thereof.

Actually atheist ideologies - Nazism, communism - have caused the most death and destruction.

I wouldn't be so sure - nazism and communism haven't lasted very long compared to religion. And don't forget aztec religion, where vast numbers of people were painfully killed as sacrifices to the sun.

Besides, the most death and destruction known to mankind is by natural causes.

I wouldn't be so sure - nazism and communism haven't lasted very long compared to religion. And don't forget aztec religion, where vast numbers of people were painfully killed as sacrifices to the sun.
Even though religion lasted a long time, when religious murder was commonplace the earth's population was still small and the methods of killing unrefined. Aztec sun sacrifice in Tenochtitlan lasted only about 100 years when the population of the Aztec Empire was no more than 5 million at its height. Each day a few victims had their hearts ripped out so such religious murder wasn't a large scale enterprise. During the era of Nazism and communism there were more people to kill, people lived in densely populated areas, and powerful and scientifically advanced central governments such as Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia could perpetrate systematic, industrial, large scale massacres. From 1950-1960 Mao Zedong murdered 50 or 60 million Chinese, Stalin killed 10 million Ukrainians in a single winter and Nazi concentration camps claimed up to 12 million people.

Besides, the most death and destruction known to mankind is by natural causes.
Well if you want to get really anal about it, then yes, natural causes is the biggest killer but you made it pretty clear we were talking about man-made causes when you claimed religion "has caused the most wars, deaths, and most destruction ever known to mankind."

Oooh lemme guess! The first page says

"To my Darling Ruth."

This is a work of fiction , and any resemblance to persons living or dead , is coincidence.

Was I right?You speak the truth.

Actually atheist ideologies - Nazism, communism - have caused the most death and destruction.
Nazism isn't atheist - an ideal saying a master race has the DIVINE right to rule for 1000 years kinda implies the existance of God

Even though religion lasted a long time, when religious murder was commonplace the earth's population was still small and the methods of killing unrefined. Aztec sun sacrifice in Tenochtitlan lasted only about 100 years when the population of the Aztec Empire was no more than 5 million at its height. Each day a few victims had their hearts ripped out so such religious murder wasn't a large scale enterprise.


The earth's population was only ever small at one moment in time, but people are continuously born, making time a very significant factor.

I read that on at least one festival day, 20000 victims were killed in one day.

but you made it pretty clear we were talking about man-made causes when you claimed religion "has caused the most wars, deaths, and most destruction ever known to mankind."

Somebody else said that, not me. It was to that person that I was "being anal". Sorry for the misdirection.

Nazism isn't atheist - an ideal saying a master race has the DIVINE right to rule for 1000 years kinda implies the existance of God
Nazis did not believe the white race was divinely inspired... they thought that laws of nature and tendencies in evolution formed the superior race they called the Aryans. Hitler never called the 1000 year Reich a divine plan, he believed the white race had the right to rule because nature rewarded the strong and considered the Aryans the strongest.

The earth's population was only ever small at one moment in time, but people are continuously born, making time a very significant factor.

I read that on at least one festival day, 20000 victims were killed in one day.

Such a large scale killing would have been few and very far between. Historians believe that on average, 20,000 people per year were sacrified by the Aztecs in the 16th century. They would have sacrificed less in the 15th century because the empire was smaller, so no more than two million people died over 100 years during the time of human sacrifice at Tenochtitlan. Contrast that with 10 million killed by Stalin over a few months and 60 million killed by Mao over 20 years.