NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, this is just something i've been wondering:

Right. You have to people. One is a Christian and the other not.

The Christian is a Good person, doing good deeds because if he does he will go to heaven when he dies, and becasue if he doesn't he will be sent to hell. He is good because he fears divine retribution.

The other person doesn't believe. But nevertheless he is a good man. He does nice things just like the Christian did. But he does them because he wants to be good, not because he fears being bad.

Which is the better person? Reasons'd be good thanks :)

I think the latter person is good, because I'd rather be motivated to do good deeds out of goodness than fear

Is this supposed tob be a religious question?

They're the same. What difference does it make what your intentions were if the results did not differ in any way whatsoever?

I love it when people describe themselves as being God fearing Christians. My usual response is to say “My goodness, what have you done to piss God off so much that makes you want to fear him?”

I think they're about the same. I put works over faith anyday. It matters what you do, not why you do it.

I agree with the person that says it is the deed not the person that goes noticed.

Is this supposed tob be a religious question?
I'm guessing it is. Because what it all comes down to is this :
of two people who are equal in every aspect, except for religion; who is better: the christian or the atheist?
Most people will agree that if you look at it this way, both of them are just as 'good' (isn't that a christian idea in the first place?)

Ok, this is just something i've been wondering:

Right. You have to people. One is a Christian and the other not.

The Christian is a Good person, doing good deeds because if he does he will go to heaven when he dies, and becasue if he doesn't he will be sent to hell. He is good because he fears divine retribution.

The other person doesn't believe. But nevertheless he is a good man. He does nice things just like the Christian did. But he does them because he wants to be good, not because he fears being bad.

Which is the better person? Reasons'd be good thanks :)
i would say the latter, because his behavior is based on rational or ingrained beliefs in compassion, respect, and honor; a person who is only keeping themselves in line out of fear of a supernatural force or desire for person reward is far less honorable and trustworthy, since they could just as easily convince themselves that the imaginary being wants them to act wickedly or unjustly if the mood should suit them.

Is this supposed tob be a religious question?Atually it is a religous question, dates back in Christianity to at least Agustine and in Buddism from Siddartha and doubtless in other religions. In Christianity a large part of the argument about The Doctrine of Works splitting Prodestantism and Catholicism hinges on this question, and the whole Catholic concept of Purgatory is likewise based upon this sort of question.
From a Christian viewpoint (as taught in the theology although very few non-clergy study this far, and not the the only viewpoint, but instead one of them), the latter is a "better person", as all selfless desire to do good is from a love of G*d, even without the knowledge of the love of G*d. Even better than the two examples under this view is the Christian who does good, not out of fear of damnation, or an unknowing love of G*d, but out a knowing love of G*d.

My question to everyone...do you believe all Christians are the way you think they are, obeying only out of fear? Think carefully before you answer.

And do you think all atheists behave out of "a sense of goodness", and not a fear of worldly punishment? Again, think carefully before getting yourself into trouble with your answer.

You cannot look at groups. You can only look at the individual.

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

that pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

I would want to do good deeds because I'm a good person, and not because I fear something. I'd go with the other person

The latter...not to say the former isnt a good person as well.

If this is just referring to two individuals, I would say that the second person is a better person. But if it is a question of Christians and non-Christians I would have to say that as a whole Christians are not all "afraid" of punishment if they aren't good to others.

'good' (isn't that a christian idea in the first place?)
No it isn't. And christians didn't invent marriage and moral either (just for the record).


Oh, and doing things because you like to is better than because you have a gun to your head (or a roaster or trip mine).

i would say the latter, because his behavior is based on rational or ingrained beliefs in compassion, respect, and honor; a person who is only keeping themselves in line out of fear of a supernatural force or desire for person reward is far less honorable and trustworthy, since they could just as easily convince themselves that the imaginary being wants them to act wickedly or unjustly if the mood should suit them.

Good point.

I'd say the second person is more "good" given your qualifications. However, were the Christian also doing good deeds because they enjoyed it, they would be equal.

To those who argue that intent matters not if the results are the same, I disagree. The justice system still punishes attempted murder, even if the would-be victim escapes unharmed.

Ok, this is just something i've been wondering:

Right. You have to people. One is a Christian and the other not.

The Christian is a Good person, doing good deeds because if he does he will go to heaven when he dies, and becasue if he doesn't he will be sent to hell. He is good because he fears divine retribution.

The other person doesn't believe. But nevertheless he is a good man. He does nice things just like the Christian did. But he does them because he wants to be good, not because he fears being bad.

Which is the better person? Reasons'd be good thanks :)

You mistakenly belive that deeds alone get one into heaven. Christians don't do goo d deeds in order to be christians, they do good because they ARE christians. The subltety may be too much for you...

As far as who the better person is, ignoring your misattribution of motivation, there is no difference. They are equal. No christian believes themselves or their peers better than anyone else, regardless of faith. It is one of the tenets of our nations foundation - which was written by christians.

To those who argue that intent matters not if the results are the same, I disagree. The justice system still punishes attempted murder, even if the would-be victim escapes unharmed.

Eactly! if the intent is there that is all that is needed.

Although I'm not a Christian...

Who's to say that the Christian isn't doing good deeds because s/he loves God and wants to show this by behaving in a way which God would approve of? I think it's wrong to imply that Christians are only good because they're scared of going to Hell. Many Christians who I know do good things either for the reason above, or for the same reasons as an atheist/agnostic.

Also, who's to say that the atheist isn't doing good deeds because it makes them feel good... which could be called a selfish act?